. >> now, labor secretary marty walsh. he talks about artificial intelligence and digital technology's impact on u.s. manufacturing. "the washington post" hosts this half an hour event. >> good afternoon. i'm jonathan capehart, opinion writer for "the washington post." welcome to "washington post" live. today, we're talking about the u.s. economy, manufacturing, and jobs. and who better to talk about all that than the secretary of labor, marty walsh. secretary walsh, welcome back to "washington post" live. >> jonathan, thank you for having me today. >> so we did see interesting numbers in the most recent jobs report issued last week. 26,000 manufacturing jobs were added in september, but the industry is still down by 353,000 jobs since february 2020. what's the overall state of the manufacturing sector today? >> certainly, we want to see more involvement and employment in the manufacturing sector. we have some work there to do to get back to a level set. and then as one of the opening remarks here, the president has two pl

for proof -- labor force participation. we know participation of prime age women,, 25 to 54, so that the labor force used to be very similar to other countries around the world but it has steadily eroded in recent decades as p countries have done more and more to pull prime age women into the labor force through things like excellent childcare provisions. we are really far behind on that as a country, but the build back better act will start moving us in that direction, so all of that is to say that i think that not only once the pandemic situation resolves, will we get back to the waiver force participation rate we had prior to the recession, i think it will go even higher if these investments go through that will have a meaningful impact on boosting labor force per dissipation -- labor force participation. we are looking at this longer run and there are hiccups right now and we are trying to climb out of this enormous gap we are in, but over the long run, i am really optimistic about the direction of our labor force parti

historically good labor market. never perfect, but i good labor market. we are in a different world now. it is just very different. the recession was the deepest, and the recovery has been the fastest. wages did not really go down. all of this is completely unusual. we are in an economy where inflation was driven by services and is now all the inflation is in goods. i'm very open to the thought that it's going to be an empirical question as to where is it located, and we are going to learn more. one thing i hope we will learn in the near term is once the delta variant really does continue to decline, what is going to happen to employment? are we going to see over the winter significant increases in jobs? if you look at the 3, 6, and nine month average job creation, it is between 60 and 150,000. you don't have to think back to -- if we wish to get back on that path, then we would be making good progress. we will learn so much more. it's a different world in so many ways. and we're very open to that. >>

the labor economy? jonathan: i assume it is the labor market. i assume it is inflation, but apparently, it is not their job to guide interest rates. tom: as i said yesterday, it was a live meeting in the united kingdom. i thought it would be just another meeting of the bank of england. it was decidedly not that. sarah is with us with wells fargo as we turn to the labor economy. throughout that james and alan will be with us as well. jeff rosenberg on the financial markets after that report. what have you changed on your labor economic view after adp and after a good trend in claims? >> we have not changed anything after the adp or data. we think the main thing we are seeing in the labor market remains that supplies a big hurdle for the overall case of hiring. we expect to see some improvement with the october data, but we are still seeing a limit to how fast employers can bring back workers because of what is happening on the supply side. we're looking for a below consensus print where we get the headline numbers at 8:30. tom: i believe john wil

labor market -- 4.4 million more people in the u.s. labor market. millions are being kept out of the labor force because of ongoing health concerns and childcare is still not up to adequate levels. we have already seen this school year, thousands of closures. all of those things -- thousands of school closures. all of those things are keeping parents out of the labor force. so we have some very covid-specific backlogs. the other thing is even in the aftermath of normal recessions, the labor force participation rate resolved more slowly than the overall unemployment rate. that is definitely what we are seeing here. i have every reason to believe that it will. as covid gets in the rearview mirror, it will resolve. the question is how long will that take. one thing that is a point of good news as far as labor force participation goes is the build back better plan being discussed right now. that has a lot of features that will actually boost labor force participation, like childcare. my guess is we will bounce back hired than we were precut -- higher th

principles and labor ideals, labor rules. do you think i, the pandemic and the, the changes induced by still make it worthwhile. they unified mobilize effort. yeah, i think it makes it to essential. you know, we started on this system if we call them international labor standard, sees as you call them, unified rules of good behavior, the rules of the game in the, in the economy. in respect of labor, we started this 100 over a 100 years ago. so it's not something which is the child of globalization. but when globalization really took hold and we're now talking it's, it's getting on for half a century ago. now. these, these common rules became all the more important because the notion of fair competition, a level playing field across the global economy became ever more pressing. and i think the rationale, the international labor standards became stronger with globalization. and what's happening today cov, it, of course, has put a major obstacles in the operation of the global economy. we know all about them. but i'm not convinc

about the labor market. what is he going to say in terms of trying to support some sort of bill getting passed at a time when he also has to signal a robust recovery? >> the presidential he spoke on the labor market in his comments and said that since i have been elected, 6 million people have gotten jobs and have gotten back to work. the treasury secretary, although she does say that looking at the household data does seem that people seem confident they can get a job, the elephant in the room for me is the fact that economist are worried about the number of people who left the workforce during the pandemic and have yet to come back in. that is the elephant in the room, the participation. this is something the president could potentially try to bring it back to his agenda. if you want to see more women coming back into the workforce, you have to pass my economic agenda. there has to be child tax credits. this is this something the president is going to use as economic agenda to push forward on lifting up an

of labor, it is a little different. this job, as a think about a moment in time we are living in, even though it is challenging and i get asked a lot of questions, it is a very exciting, interesting time to be secretary of labor. we are going through a time in the country that has been 100 years since we've gone through something like this and trying to work to make sure we support american workers and move the country forward. it is an incredible honor and opportunity. >> secretary walsh, maybe folks know this but they are about the find out. you are a huge red sox fan. in about five hours, the sox will start their championship series against the houston astros. put on your sportscasters hat. will the red sox go all the way to the world series? if they do, will they win the world series? >> taking a line from one of my favorite nfl coaches of all time. we will take it one pitch at a time. bill belichick would say that. i will let you know in 4-7 games. >> [laughter] that is a non-answer. if you are is huge of a red sox

labor secretary, speaking to bloomberg last week on the labor markets. investors now digesting all of our economic data that we have had dumped on us this morning that showed, amongst other things, that claims are at their lowest level since 1969. joining us now, nela richardson, adp chief economist. do you believe that number? that sounds like an incredible acceleration we are seeing in the labor market. nela: thanks for having me, first of all. yes, that number is distorted a bit by where thanksgiving falls. it is not that low. but the overall take away is it is much lower than where we have been. i think that is more evidence that the labor market has felt the hemorrhaging of jobs. we are getting back to a more normal semblance of what layoffs look like in a typical week. maybe not that low, but much lower than they were, for example, six months ago. that is a good sign that we are still on track with this recovery and that we are making progress every month. gina: we just heard from mike mckee about the fed's take on the job market and where the fed

also the problem of labor and the labor shortages, labor problems all over the country. and all ends of the infrastructure and the logistics of moving stuff around on trucks, truck drivers are looking for more money, or they're being this, this incentivized to join them for different reasons. well, let me ask you this. so, you know, we've been talking for a long time, we've been covering markets for a long time. there's always a historically kind of a given take between the finance, the finance market and the labor market. and starting in the 1980, you know, he had a period of finance taking over from labor labor had a great decade in the seventy's. then reagan came around, he fired the air traffic controllers and we have this huge financial ization wave derivatives wave. and it's been really 4045 years of bond market rallies and the financial world are we at a point now or that that trend is going to reverse, or we're going to see a shift of the pendulum back toward favoring labor. is that a good way to look at it and my right am i off base? what do you think? as part o

the labor market is front and center. we have been hearing from president biden talking about the implications. we heard from marty walsh, the u.s. labor secretary who spoke about wage pressure. >> we have seen wages increasing, the number catching up to inflation. it is not there but it is heading to that number. i can't predict over the next six to eight months. in the first part of this year we saw inflation going higher than wage growth. in the next few months we will see some of that changing. guy: let's talk more about the numbers. mike mckee joining us now. the issue of wages is important. we are seeing wages remaining fairly sticky. 4.9% is the number, but inflation is 5%. the labor market is healing, but are we going to continue to see wages remaining as elevated as they are. if they remain where they are now for a few more reports is the fed going to have to rethink their taper plan that is already laid out this week? michael: it is an interesting question about remaining the way that it has been. we saw a lot o

host: going back to the policy indications of the free labor movement, with their still be a process or citizenship or is that outdated? >> there is allied of legitimate concerns and a lot of times it's bundled with how we do things if you want to make citizenship let people migrate but if you want to make the window before they have access to citizenship ten years or 15 years or make the test harder and include english-language pop-culture references. a lot of things that a people care about i don't have a strong opinion. is it a path that i am all for it. host: to questions about two different issues you address this a little bit but changing the nature of the nation does mass immigration do that? >> i'm not sure what we mean of course it is a complex phenomenon and it will always be evolving. our american culture today is not what it was in the early 19h century and those political institutions have changed to mirror that. mixing immigration will obviously change but we should do a good job of teaching about what made america great in welcoming immigrants to those ideas rather thi

we've seen labor market data without improvement in labor supply. i've seen strong spending data. remembering every dollar of asset purchases does increase accommodation. we now look at an economy that's very strong and inflationary pressures that are high. that means it's appropriate i think for us to discuss in our next meeting whether it will be appropriate to wrap up our purchases if you munch -- a few months earlier. in those two weeks we will get more data. sen. kennedy: thank you. madam secretary, you and i do not agree on everything, but i have great respect for your intellect and experience. and i understand you have a job to do. i would be remiss if i did not point out that in my opinion, there is no fair-minded person in the milky way who believes the infrastructure bill and build back better bill are not going to require the american people to incur substantial debt. and here's my question. and i'm looking for a number. how much in the biden administration's opinion is too much debt? at what point as you incur debt will the biden administration say ok that is it. we ca

we have an incredibly tight labor market. there have been a number of other alternatives that people who might have driven in uber -- in uber or lyft. we now have a bunch of people drawn into these new 15-minute grocery businesses, like online shopping and local delivery. all of that has grown, so the labor pool has shrunk, and uber and lyft have managed to fulfill a lot of demand and keep bookings and average revenue per driver in active rider up despite prices have gone up to bring in the drivers, but the regulatory headwinds is an intensifying of this question around how should gig workers be protected. we saw this battle play out in california last year with proposition 22, which was uber and lyft's plan to give benefits, and i thought that was a good solution, but i think it will be a lot of push towards trying to get the platform to take on more of the benefits and protection costs of their drivers, so compared to the trump or obama administration, it is a less friendly regulatory environment. taylor: we have heard that

market, like wages is a key measure of how tight the labor market is. the level of quits, the amount of job openings, the flows in and out of various states. so we look at so many different things you make an overall judgment now, the temptation at the beginning of the recovery was to look at the data in february of 2020 and say, well, that's the goal because we didn't know -- that's what we knew. we knew that was achievable in a context of low inflation i think we're learning that we have to be humble about what we know about this economy, which is still very covid affected, by the way. a lot of what we're seeing in the last 90 days is because of delta. we were on a path to a very different place. delta put us on a different path and we see these things. so i think we're going to have to ideally, we would see further development of the labor market in a context where there isn't another covid spike. and then we would be able to see, i think, a lot. we would see whether, how does participation react in that world, in that sort of post-covid world right

and, also, labor supply has been impacted by the pandemic. labor force participation is down. it hasn't recovered. and i would expect that if we're successful with the pandemic, to be some time in the second half of next year, i would expect prices to go back to normal. >> brennan: because there could be a political cost to this. >> yes. well, there's an economic cost, and americans feel it, and when gas rises, average is now over capitol hill 3 a gallon, and some places quite a bit higher, americans notice is, and it makes a difference. but i just think it's important to put inflation in context of an economy that is improving a lot from what we had right after the pandemic and is making progress. >> brennan: china's leaders have repeatedly asked for the trump-era tariffs to be lifted. if the biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? >> it would make some dinches. difference. tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. we put those tariffs in place, president trump in his administration did, in retaliation for unfair trade practices. >> brennan: should they s

that demand in labor has indeed done work on this. by the end of october they think we have a record-breaking 11.1 million job openings. that is stunning after already record numbers in august. we are outpacing job openings versus labor supply as well. matt: i want to ask about the infrastructure spending lands in the build back better spending. if the vaccines and medicines are one huge piece of the reopening, the economic recovery, the growth we have seen, how much more of a boost can we get from the 500 billion or 1.7 5 trillion in spending? are those bills necessary for growth? diane: it is not about growth. the infrastructure bill -- my dog is in the background -- the infrastructure bill is important and partly build back better includes claim change issues. we should finance that at low rates at longer terms. they are paying us to do it on inflation adjusted basis and losses due to climate changes by embracing that. it takes time to ramp up. that will not hit until 2024 or 2025. we should pay for social spending. otherwise that

taylor: there is big discussion going on about that labor participation. our own economist here internally mentioned a lot about powell on wednesday saying maybe we could speculate some of those jobs are gone and are gone permanently. if that is the case, how do we get back to some of the previous labor force participation to make sure everyone can come back and get a job that they want? elise: it is important to remember that labor force participation tends to be a lagging indicator in the recovery. that is true in general and recoveries. we are still any pandemic, there is reasons for millions of workers to have some positive returning to the labor market, for customers to have a pause in going to do things in person. as the pandemic receipts, we will see workers coming back. in that recovery from the recession, there were people that said, these are going to be permanently sidelined workers, now they are saying the same thing. i don't think that is going to be the case. i am optimistic that as the health concerns recede, they will return. romaine: when

market and historically good labor market, never perfect but a good labor market. we are a different world now, this is very different. the pandemic recession was the deepest and the recovery has been the fastest. wages did not really go down and real incomes were more than fully replaced by fiscal policy. although this is completely unusual. an economy where inflation was driven by services is now inflation were all the inflation is in goods which had negative inflation for quarter of a century. you ask about full employment. i am very open to the thought that it is going to be an empirical question of where it is located and we are going to learn more and more. one thing we will learn, i hope we will learn in the near-term, once a delta variant really does continue to decline, what is going to happen to employment. will we see over the winter significant increases in jobs again. if you look back to three, six and nine months job creation between 150,600,000. if you think of that, you don't have to think back to the million job months of june and july. you can tak

there seems to be momentum behind the labor market. given the fact there are so many stores looking for holiday time temporary employees, how much momentum can carry us into 2022? tom: one of the most valuable conversations has been with jim glassman. he says, " at the margin this is an original labor economy." tom: the mist -- lisa: the mystery of this market is very human. tom: i strongly agree. today's numbers, -- we will drive this conversation forward. coming up good news from martin walsh, the secretary of labor. this is bloomberg. good morning. ♪ tom: jonathan: a fantastic payroll support and an equity market that keeps climbing. the countdown to the open starts now. ♪ >> everything you need to get set for the start of u.s. trading, this is "bloomberg: the open," with jonathan ferro. ♪ tom: from -- jonathan: from new york, looking at a healing labor market. >> october numbers. >> today's jobs report. >> huge uncertainty on the labor market. >> big hurdles. >> the market is so tight. >> looking for another downward drop. >>

we think the fed will continue that approach and let me labor -- let labor markets overheat and rates decline even further. i think, to your point, there's a lot of uncertainty around neighbor. should that labor force participation not continue to trend higher as the business cycle improves, that means it may actually be a bit higher. guy: in terms of what we are going to learn about this debate, how much are we going to get from the payroll number on friday? what are you looking for in the payroll number when it comes to the labor market? blerina: we are looking for improvement in employment numbers because we got a lot of that slow down the previous months driven by the covid infection surges. so as infection rates decline and confidence to go out and spend improves, we would expect this acceleration in employment growth and for this to lead further declines in the unemployment rate. then, from a medium-term perspective, the real thing to watch here is what happens to the labor force participation rate. we really need this cyclical rebound in the labor force participation rate becau

labor force. 42 million of retirees classify the u.s. labor force every u.s. citizen 16 or over not incarcerated in the u.s. military in nursing or residential care home. how can we incentivize retirees and others currently not working but able to work to enter the workforce to help fill what america currently has. it's critical for u.s. competitiveness and economic strength. i'd be remiss if i didn't mention long-standing challenge to businesses like mine. not just in the confectionery industry the beverage unit fracturing sector as well. i'm referring to the u.s. sugar program which consists of a combination of domestic marketing allotment, low-dose, guaranteed price support and flexibility program. it's so complicated, i don't have the time or expertise to walk you through it all. restrict the supply of sugar in this crisis. american businesses rely on steady supply of sugar and options to be twice what our global competitors pay on the global market. i'm grateful for the subcommittee's interest in our business and i appreciate you looking at the troubling

to put it in simple terms when cubans leave do they bring socialism with them or bring the labor and not change our political institution. if they impact our economic institutions to make the united states more like cuba's, then not only would they get the gains in labor by moving her, but all of us would become less productive, too. economists call in a new economic case for immigration restriction. and what wretched refuse does, it the most comprehensive of the problem today. we've cut the data a whole bunch of different ways to immigrants impact the institutions of destination countries or do they not impact them or enhance them? ultimately that's an empirical question. >> and is the answer all of the above? >> well, the answer is, there's not systemic evidence that they harm our institutions that are responsible for our productivity. so we look across about 110 countries, looking at initial stocks of immigrants, flows of immigrants over a 20-year period what happens to our economic freedoms and property. what happens to corruption over that time period. how does it affect rates o

when you see a labor shortage, we know it can speed up investment in labor replacing technologies. this sector had already been working on that, there was already a check in process that didn't involve human beings. we are talking about the degree to which front-line employees disproportionately hurt are the most vulnerable. some of those jobs may disappear permanently because of this labor cap we are seeing, shifts on the other end of it. are you hearing that planning? gilda: a little bit. job security is something we have to address as hotel companies. we get enhanced security, maybe looking on benefits, and let's not kid ourselves, there may be some wage inflation going on. this is not just in hospitality but other industries as well. we have to look at the labor side of the equation. that is the biggest headwind we have. the good thing is with two point $9 trillion of savings amassed, people getting ready to travel and spend time in hotels, we think those increased costs will be more than obsessed by increased revenues from this amazing wave of demand that we are seeing, contin

how is labor affecting you at the moment? geoff: what is great about this program we put together, for wow bao, there is no labor involved. it is operators of existing restaurants doing this. for our product, it is the easiest thing to come out of your kitchen. for operators who are having labor troubles, they can pull back on their existing menu items to make it easier to operate, and they can turn on wow bao at the same time because of the ease of execution and they have larger menus. labor is definitely the number one problem facing the restaurant business right now and will continue for some time. our solution, because it is just a steam product, you can boil water and serve on third-party delivery, we think we have helped the restaurant operator survive during this labor shortage. taylor: what on average are you hearing is the appropriate menu price increase that some of the restaurants are passing on to consumers? geoff: that is all over the board. i know some operators who have not taken price, some go as high as 10% t

he reconfigured the labor policy quite fundamentally. so lay policies, traditional commitment to public ownership of democratic control over the economy that is abandoned. and the main role for the state is to correct the market failures and try to include more and more people into market society. it's kind of neoliberalism with a more human face or what we might call progressive neoliberalism. tony blair pulled the labor party away from its socialist mores and anchored it to the free market. what helped paint the new labor government has progressive with social values such as it outward embrace of multiculturalism? no matter what people's background go back. all that problem with what is a great life foot by 2001 standing up for the country was also being claimed by a resurgent for right now reorganized around the british national party. the b and p. b and p's writes for white slogan hood over, we struck home, we've got to do something to stand up for ourselves. and they, the only paper telpast ha ha, cutting formed. it's based in the s

addressing forced labor would also be one of my high priorities. while it is hard to imagine anything more antithetical to our core values as americans, eliminating forced labor is more than philosophical undertaking. it is a moral imperative. full force to laws must be given to laws that punish modern-day slavery while facilitating trade for companies who do business responsibly. i live in a city close to the u.s. border with mexico and consider myself lucky to have visited those borders many times. it is essential to recognize what we think of as the border is not homogenous and there is no one solution that will provide us with perfect border security. if confirmed, i will do what i've always done in my professional career, which is to uphold the law. if i will expect, without exception, all agency personnel be conscientious, fair, and humane when enforcing the law. more than a few colleagues have asked me what are you thinking. why would i choose to take on this important and challenging responsibility of leading cbp at this moment? here's my a

the one thing that we can probably count on is that the labor shortages, the labor disruption will slowly abate. because in fact most folks have to go back to work. they may have been able to protect themselves through government subsidy, but that's all over at this point. sonali: in theory this could be a great time of negotiation for workers. what are some of the things retailers are offering that are more innovative and competitive and can last a little longer? >> traditionally, retailers with large seasonal hiring goals have been able to pick and choose who they brought on board, but the worm has turned and now prospective employees can shop for opportunities. look for highest wages, best benefits, most convenient location, best work schedules. they are more or less being offered the sun, the moon, and the stars to come on board. this is occurring everywhere in the supply chain. not just that detail. you've got the truck drivers in the folks working in the distribution centers as we struggle to get ourselves back on our feet. romaine: talking about the sun, the moon, and the stars, do

for proof -- labor force participation. we know participation of prime age women,, 25 to 54, so that the labor force used to be very similar to other countries around the world but it has steadily eroded in recent decades as p countries have done more and more to pull prime age women into the labor force through things like excellent childcare provisions. we are really far behind on that as a country, but the build back better act will start moving us in that direction, so all of that is to say that i think that not only once the pandemic situation resolves, will we get back to the waiver force participation rate we had prior to the recession, i think it will go even higher if these investments go through that will have a meaningful impact on boosting labor force per dissipation -- labor force participation. we are looking at this longer run and there are hiccups right now and we are trying to climb out of this enormous gap we are in, but over the long run, i am really optimistic about the direction of our labor force parti

jonathan: do using the labor -- lisa: do using the labor market is weaker than most expect? priya: we do, particularly because of the slack. some people who have left the labor force have done so because of covid. whether it is childcare, whether you are just concerned about getting sick, they will come back. the high savings has buffered some people. they have been able to weeded out for higher wages. but ultimately, that brings them in, so there's a lot more slack in the labor market. we also think a service recovery will pick up and create demand for those jobs. so it is not a weak labor market. it is just the slack where people are really divided. we think there's a lot of hidden slack, and that has become more evident in the first half. lisa: some people have been saying this is going to be a shorter and hotter cycle. is your call that that is not true, that this is going to be a long and arduous cycle, and that the fed will be patient? or that the fed already missed its window to tighten, given how much depth there is and how much momentum will decelerate next year? pr

you know labor. what about this issue about whether you have to pay for increased inflation in order to get full employment? betsey: there is no longer run trade-off between full employment and inflation. what we are trying to do now is to the economy back to a place where all of our resources are used in the most effective way possible, getting our workers back, factories back online, and everything is a little mixed up right now because people are changing their priorities, both about what they buy and how they work. we are far from full employment still but we are seeing some inflationary pressure. people's demand has outstripped supply. we have had particular challenges with prices coming from goods overseas because of the supply chain challenges, increased cost of shipping. i do think it is rocky waters right now, but i would have to say, if i would say the number one problem fixing the globe right now, it is how to get everybody back to work into a place where they will be stable in a post-pand

joining us is labor secretary marty walsh. happy friday. >> if you hear a notice in the background, there's a helicopter flying around. dealing with a lot of noise. >> i got you we've got some noise here, too we'll work our way through it. the -- the appropriate is about the fading delta variant can you talk about that and whether it was the lead dynamic? >> it definitely has a big role to play. the beauty of the report is we sought growth in a lot of different sectors. it was in hospitality, it was in construction, so you can see that you had can definitely see when we look at the numbers this morning, we talked about in the summer time when the delta variant was spiking, we saw less participation. we're see better numbers today i think president biden's economic plan is working as well and i think the plan to take on covid-19 is working as well. >> mr. secretary, jim cramer one of the things that's happened this morning is dr. gottlieb said, look, with this new pfizer remarkable series of pills, basically, the end of the pan

the fruit of their labor was theirs. no wonder they were willing to work. the power of that incentive which is based upon the right to own property and to keep the proceeds of one's labor. of that which happened also happened at jamestown 12 years earlier. the students would recall the interlude at jamestown with characters like captain john smith, the indian made who saved from the indian chief but so many people pass over the fact that the economic system is established at jamestown with a common storehouse in equal shares for all. it failed miserably just at as itit did at plymouth. at jamestown the people almost starved under the system and the establishment of private property and individual responsibility instead of government property andti dependence upon the common started a colony on the road to success. here's what catheriney john smih himself wrote in the diary after starvation had been adverted by the change to private ownership and individual self-reliance. people were out of the common storehouse and labored jointly together, he could. presum

labor is driving the inflation, the shortage of the labor of the solving and solving for the war for talent >> yeah. i mean, the labor piece is one we've been talking about regularly on our air and the role that vaccine and vaccine mandates, concerns around covid have been playing too. what have you been doing, where your labor force is concerned? >> >> great question. we're rigorously encouraging folks to get vaccinated. and monetary was in a position where they keep themselves and their families safe. they have stocks short of mandating that for work. and we're also getting ready for the eps and what comes from that in time. it's not 100%. and there's risk for instantaneous mandate for folks to be vaccinated and tested. we're already struggling to find folks. >> i don't know. grocery stores might be a little immune from global shipping dynamics but the drying is way down and global shipping rates are down like 45% in a month. does that tell us anything about the kind of pressures we're talking about? >> we're not immune. an interesting chain reaction from all of those things you wo