gorbachev, tear down this wall! >> [applause] >> jamie fly is the president and ceo of radio free europe and radio liberty. he served during the bush administration and the national security council in the office of's national defense. heels decrease from national university and georgetown. he served as the chair for the clements for national security at the university of texas in austin, during the bush administration he served in the state department at the national security council. he holds his degrees from stanford and his undergraduate degree from stanford and his doctorate from yale. jake mcmaster served as -- an in the united states army in which he wrote to lieutenant general. he's the author of the classic work enough chemist dereliction of duty, and last year he published -- a fellow at the hoover institution, general like matt not mcmaster hold an undergraduate degree from the united states military degree and a doctorate from the university of north carolina chapel hill. jimmy will hr thanks for joining

gorbachev, open this gate. [ cheers and applause ] mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall! [ cheers and applause ] >> jamie fly is the president and ceo of radio free europe. he served during the bush administration on the national security council and in the office of the secretary of defense. he hoelt william inbulin, he served at the state department and national security council. he holds his degrees from stanford and yale. h.r. mcmaster was in the white house's national security advisor to president trump and in the united states army in which he rose to lieutenant general. general mcmaster is the author of the classic work on vietnam "dereliction of duty." he published "battleground, the fight to defend the free world." he holds an undergraduate degree from the united states military academy and a doctorate from the united states of north carolina at chapel hill. thanks for joining us. jamie, let's set the scene. on his first trip to germany in 1978 -- i'm quoting your essay for the reagan institute. reagan visited the site where 16 years old, an 18-year-old, an east

gorbachev, open this gate. [cheers and applause] mr. gorbachev, mr. gorbachev, tr down this wall. [cheers and applause] >> the fly and ceo of radio free europe and liberty serving during the bush administration on the national security council the office of secretary of defense holding degrees from american university and georgetown. and with university of texas at austin during the bush administration he served as the state department and the national security council and from stanford and the undergraduate hr mcmaster serving at the white house national security advisor to president trump and in the united states army where he rose to general and working on dereliction of duty last year he published battleground the fight to defend the free world fellow at the hoover institution holding an undergraduate degree from the united states military academy and doctorate from the university of north carolina at chapel hill. jamie and hr, thank you for joining us jamie will set the scene on his first trip to germany 1978. make it visited the site where 16 years earlier an instrument was

gorbachev, open this gate. [cheers and applause] mr. gorbachev, mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. [cheers and applause] >> jamie fly is the president and ceo of radio free europe and radio liberty. mr. fly served during the bush administration on the national security council and in the office of the secretary of defense. he holds degrees from american university and george town. serving as the chair at the yuft of texas at austin during the bush administration he served at the state department and at the national security council. he holds his degrees from stanford and his under graduate degree from stanford and his doctorate from yale. hr mcmaster served as national security advise tower president trump and in the united states army in which he rose to lieutenant general. general mcmaster is the author of the classic work on vietnam "dereliction of duty" and last year published "battleground, the fight to defend the free world." a fellow at the hoover institution general mcmaster holds an under graduate degree from the united states military academy and a doctorate from the univ

gorbachev called him up on the government will collapse within two weeks for the reason gorbachev did that is bush called on his own without anyone asking him to call your friend appear and tell him to get off the stick and open the port up or else. gorbachev did it. there was no famine. there is no famine. the foreign ministry or the state department call gorbachev directly to do it. and then the point is there's a lot of stuff that happened. it's not even in the book yet. >> me switch gears on both of you. i'm starting to take some questions that have been submitted to us. this comes from tom and washington university tomas a good question, did president bush have any regrets about any of his major foreign policy decisions after he left the presidency? so both of you not only served him, but continue to be friends of his. any regrets? any second thoughts on the decision? is not in the white house very much. he was upset with what was happening in afghanistan. we weren't really able to create a climate where they have institutions of government that would not be subjected to the tali

gorbachev called him up on the government will collapse within two weeks for the reason gorbachev did that is bush called on his own without anyone asking him to call your friend appear and tell him to get off the stick and open the port up or else. gorbachev did it. there was no famine. there is no famine. the foreign ministry or the state department call gorbachev directly to do it. and then the point is there's a lot of stuff that happened. it's not even in the book yet. >> me switch gears on both of you. i'm starting to take some questions that have been submitted to us. this comes from tom and washington university tomas a good question, did president bush have any regrets about any of his major foreign policy decisions after he left the presidency? so both of you not only served him, but continue to be friends of his. any regrets? any second thoughts on the decision? is not in the white house very much. he was upset with what was happening in afghanistan. we weren't really able to create a climate where they have institutions of government that would not be subjected to the tali

gorbachev, open this gate. [applause] [applause] mr. gorbachev, mr. gorbachev, "tear down this wall". [cheering and applause]. [cheering and applause]. >> jamie fly served during the bush administration on the national security council in the office of the secretary of defense coming holds degrees from the american university in georgetown, and another church hundred served as chair for national security at the university of texas in austin during the bush administration he served as the state department and of the national security council he holds his degrees from stanford and his undergraduate degree from stanford and his doctorate from yale. hr mcmaster was a security advisor to president trump commandant the united states army in which he rose to lt. general. general mcmaster is the author of the classic work on vietnam dereliction of duty and last year he published battlegrounds, the fight to defend the free world and former hoover institution he holds an undergraduate degree from the united states military academy any doctorate from the univers

gorbachev called him up on the government will collapse within two weeks for the reason gorbachev did that is bush called on his own without anyone asking him to call your friend appear and tell him to get off the stick and open the port up or else. gorbachev did it. there was no famine. there is no famine. the foreign ministry or the state department call gorbachev directly to do it. and then the point is there's a lot of stuff that happened. it's not even in the book yet. >> me switch gears on both of you. i'm starting to take some questions that have been submitted to us. this comes from tom and washington university tomas a good question, did president bush have any regrets about any of his major foreign policy decisions after he left the presidency? so both of you not only served him, but continue to be friends of his. any regrets? any second thoughts on the decision? is not in the white house very much. he was upset with what was happening in afghanistan. we weren't really able to create a climate where they have institutions of government that would not be subjected to the tali

gorbachev, tear down this >> mr. gorbachev. tear down thisll wall. foundatin and institute hosts a look back at the evolution of president reagan's "tear down this wall" speech and its importance more than three decades later. the white house speechwriter behind the address participated in the event. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online any time at c-span.org/history. >> next, we visit plimoth patuxet and plymouth, massachusetts, to explore the re-created 17th century colonial village and talk to interpreters about daily life. the you depicted is 1627, seven ye

i guess whether the 0 edition gorbachev was removed from power. most of the regional leaders and ukraine supported the initiators of the to the state committee on the state emergency. landed craft took, took a wait and see attitude without issuing any strong statements. 2 days later, the 2 attempt failed friendships and pushed the declaration of state independence in the supreme soviet . the idea of miss others is there certain that the blob of an estimate? hello, mr. crosby. seneca middle, who in trema that the a give without them a police to come, the fellow trust my mother simone in front of the image. oh, but i would just have to look goes to fix one of the machine. yeah. another trust. some story, yoda abuse is the portal and this is the 3rd declaration of independence of ukraine in its history. the 1st happened in 1918 when 2 ukrainian states were formed in what is now present day ukraine. ukrainian soviet socialist republic with its center in cartesian, in the ukrainian peoples republic center and cave, which was quickly replaced by the dic

w. bush visited the ussr after meetings with gorbachev in moscow. he travelled to cute, where he delivered a speech in front of the deputies of the supreme soviet. oh, decisive . when americans talk of freedom. we refer to people's ability to live without fear of government intrusion. ah, without fear of harassment by their fellow citizens. mm. without restricting others freedom. yet freedom is not the same as independence, hulu americans will not support those mo, seek independence in order to replace a far off tyranny with a local despotism. they will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred. and may i simply say, may god bless the people of ukraine. thank you very, very much for all those driven by drink, shaped by centers are those with airs. sinks. we dare to ask, ah, ah michael, your whole measure. but anyway, i think when i supervision sort of japan here, next up is the zillow. news to to know was, are colors have been you know, there's more does them are still going to say is korean and there's a lesson smith

gorbachev couldn't match that because his economic system didn't work and ours did. so you and i penned this op-ed that will be in the paper tomorrow, the journal, about the growth rates and so forth. today -- today i think we're in danger of rehandcuffing free enterprise and capitalism. as dan clifton has noted in a recent piece, these are the first tax hikes on capital, right, the geese that laid the golden eggs -- on capital in 50 years. i find that to be foreboding, certainly move us in the wrong direction and damaging in the eyes of the world. what do you think? >> so let me just shout out a couple of -- so there's so many great people in this room. i just wanted to say the reagan tax cuts would not have happened without richard ron. richard, you are a superstar. you were at that time an aconomist at the chamber of commerce. and thank you for what you did because you were a driving force behind that. i don't know, grover, if you had the tax pledge back then, but i think reagan certainly gave birth to that movement and helped reagan from being succumbed into agre

the impact on gorbachev, who came in in 1985. was popular. but gorbachev was the first one to recognize that this will be economy was going the opposite direction. i could see that regan, by using our ability to invest in the strategic defense initiative, was the maximum leverage. and gorbachev was saying i don't even want you to do research on it. he knew that the soviet union could never match that. so, my research ended up being a book that came out in january, '89, the coming soviet crash. so, reagan was right. he saw that country was going bankrupt. and not just economically, morally as well. is g>> judy, this is important. i was on the plane back from reykjavik. he said no, time, newsweek, the whole world was about to make him the great peacemaker. he said no, i'm going home to nancy. and he was -- the only 2 people on the plane that were happy i, don't know about reagan, but it was me and pat buchanan. because we know what had happened. we knew he had -- i think for different reasons you are happy. i said mister president, everybody wa

w. bush visited the ussr after meetings with gorbachev in moscow. he travelled to q, where he delivered a speech in front of the deputies of the supreme soviet. oh, when americans talk of freedom, we refer to people's ability to live without fear of government intrusion. ah, without fear of harassment by their fellow citizens. mm. without restricting others street. yes, freedom is not the same as independence, hulu. americans will not support those mo, seek independence in order to replace a far off tyranny with a local despotism. they will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred. and may i simply say, may god bless the people of ukraine. thank you very, very much. ah ah, ah ah, ah. a federal reserve. so there you go, get a back. oh no. what with came we get the rest and 7 years bill, if it's every year, what kind of report mm. mm. good russia, this class of car was discontinued more than 20 years ago. even though they more than a sort of can you sell it to proposal that sure deal with just important practice. it to

and gorbachev was saying, well, i don't even want you to do research on it. but he knew that the soviet union could never match that. so my research ended up being a book that came out in january '89, "the coming soviet crash." so reagan was right. he saw that country was going bankrupt. and not just economically, morally as well. >> judy, this is important. i was on the plane on the ride back. it was just like the tax cuts. he said no. "time" and "newsweek" and the whole world was about to make him the great peacemaker. he said, no, i'm going home to nancy. he was being diddled by the soviets. the only people on that plane that were happy was me and pat buchanan. >> i think for different reasons you were happy. >> no, i gave him a note that said, mr. president, everybody wanted a treaty -- he read it there and his eyes filled with tears, i couldn't believe it -- but i said, you've done what the american people always wanted an american president to do, you stood up to the russians. it was the same courage you talked about with the tax cuts at the critical mo

gorbachev, tear down this wall! >> at 5:25 p.m., the hoover institution's and the ronald reagan presidential foundation and institute hosted a look back at president reagan's tear down this wall speech and its importance three decades later. the white house speechwriter behind the address participated in the event. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturday on c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime met c-span.org/history. ♪ >> three men were convicted in the killing of 25-year-old ahmaud arbery. the georgia jury reached their verdict on the second day of deliberations, rejecting the claim of self-defense. this is about 10 minutes. >> all right. ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. metaphor person, i understand that you have reached a verdict as to each defendant.

and gorbachev keep saying there will be a peaceful coexistence. and we are going to add this paragraph around interrupting internal affairs and peaceful coexistence. he says it four times. he turns the powell and powell scrambles on the corner of the paper. and he puts it down and he slides it to reagan. and raegan looks at it and then gets up and says, the answer is, no. we are not adding that paragraph. and gorbachev explodes in gets in reagan's face. and in short order he's in his face. they are really yelling at each other, the whole deal is about ready to fall apart. and then gorbachev backs down and says okay. and they don't have the paragraph. and so everybody files out of the room. and they go back to the table and they see the piece of paper. and powell says, if you agree, you can never criticize them again. you could never criticize the soviet union again if you put that paragraph in a deal. and reagan saw that and he trusted powell so much. the whole deal was on that paragraph. so it was not only palace influence with reagan but with th

bush and baker used this moment with gorbachev when saddam invaded kuwait. there was an example of the u.s. and soviet union condemning the move in a joint statement and working together in the un security council. remember, gorbachev was almost toppled in a hard-line coup and the soviet union unraveled in the period when jim m baker turned to middle east peacemaking. it would have been with a reduced post-soviet russia that it would have been possible to re-order the middle east in a more lasting way. in some ways george h w bush was politically vulnerable. gorbachev was enormously vulnerable and was practically toppled by a hard-line coup. giving away more in the middle east would have only accelerated that process by which the hardliners sought to end his rule over the soviet union. >> a couple of points. when jim baker spoke everyone knew he was speaking for the president of the united states. when kissinger spoke everyone knew that he was speaking for nixon. when john kerry spoke it was quite clear he was not necessarily doing so for the president of th

the impact of gorbachev became in, but gorbachev was the first one to recognize the soviet economy was going the opposite direction. the opposite. i could see that reagan by using our ability to invest in the strategic defense initiative was the maximum leverage and gorbachev was saying i don't even want to do research audit. but he knew the soviet union could never match that. my research and that being at a book that came out in january 89 so reagan was right. he saw that country is going bankrupt. not just economically morally as well. clutch i was on the plane back who just like the tax because he said no for time, newsweek the whole world was about to make in the great peacemaker and he said no i'm going home to nancy. the only two people on the plane that were happy, i don't know about reagan but it was me and pat began. we knew what happened. i think for different reasons you are happy. >> know i said mr. president, everybody wanted the treaty. let me tell you something he rented their under eyes were filled with tears i couldn't believe it, you have done what the american peopl

overlooked or not focused on enough so then the second book is about reagan and the final summits with gorbachev and the speech he gives at moscow state university which in the big of history is an amazing speech if you think about it and it just wasn't focused on a lot of the time and then at the brink is fdr churchill and stalin planning d-day at their conference which gets over status by yalta so it's another spotlight that i wanted to give to something that i didn't think was focused on. once that three-day series was done and the beginning and the middle in the end of the cold war i wanted to find something that was also overlooked and i looked at grant and i thought, i know nothing about his presidency other than he was a drunk and it was scandal filled and he basically handed the baton off. i didn't really know and i'm a student of history and so we started digging in and grant, people will focus on his time as general which is really spectacular and there's amazing stories in the book to go through his time. it's 800 pages which i'm a big fan of but then he spends a lot of time on his pr

gorbachev explode and gets in reagan's face. the whole deal is about ready to fall apart. everybody files out of the room. the deal is done. he picks it up and it says, if you agree, you can never criticize them again. meaning you can never criticize the soviet union again if you put that paragraph in the deal. reagan saw that and trusted powell so much that he risked the whole nuclear deal and koe lynn powell influence not only with reagan but the bush's and a lot of people in washington was exponential. he's a good man. it's been a very quick hour spent with you. just wonderful. thank you for coming. thank you. i'm so happy to have read the book. >> thank you. i really appreciate it. thank you. get cspan on the go. watch the biggest political events live or on demand any time, anywhere on our new mobile video app. c-span now. listen to c-span radio and discover new podcasts all for free. download c-span now, today. >>> good evening. welcome to the new york historical society. i'm really over the moon to see so many of you in our auditorium. many of you for the first time

w. bush visited the ussr after meetings with gorbachev in moscow. he travelled to q, where he delivered a speech in front of the deputies of the supreme soviet. oh, when americans talk of freedom, we refer to people's ability to live without fear of government intrusion. ah, without fear of harassment by their fellow citizens without restricting others street. yet freedom is not the same as independence. hulu americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far off tyranny with a local despotism. they will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred. and may i simply say, may god bless the people of ukraine. thank you very, very much. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have if treat even foundation. let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk and russia. this class of car was discontinued more than 20 years ago. even th

>> xi jinping can do many things, but is definitely not gorbachev. i think they worry about gorbachev and that analogy and glass half-- we've seen a greater degree of secrecy. you know, i think from their perspective and his perspective coming out of the pandemic because they suppressed it and there are far fewer deaths in the west. we looked disorganized. they were organized. they don't believe that the lack of cooperation is a problem. they created this narrative for domestic consumption that there's a conspiracy against them and they have seen this opportunity that they believe the west-- i just don't think we see that she don't see as far as we can tell it's been reported dialogue, we don't see this consideration that it was a huge error or a major mistake and that in the same way you do here, so you know i would hope they would have a period of reflection on how to handle the pandemic but i think it's more likely for domestic audience that they cross this line that they handled it very well and we are over 650,000 dead now in the united states a

gorbachev teared down this wall. >> china's bold new attitude became known as wolf warrior diplomacy. and its real life champion is xi jinping. she has made a big departure from decades of a very different chinese foreign policy. to understand how, we need to remember china's first leader. mao was one of the world's most notorious revolutionaries, destroyed western capitalism. inspiring and aiding insurgencies all over the globe. >> burma and thailand and malaysia and the plhilippines. >> in latin america, the gorilla movement. >> even a nuclear of apocalypse was acceptable to mao in his great struggle. >> if worse came to worse and have hoffmof mankind died, he s imper imperialism, the whole world would become socialist. >> mao's successor had a polar approach. >> millions have died for a lack of food >> his main goal was to make the country rich so he opened its borders to trade and saw peaceful coexistence with the west. >> xao ping came up with a theory that he called hide your strength and buy your time. invest in the chinese economy and ease your way into the international syste

>> is definitely not gorbachev. i think they worry about gorbachev announcing, we seen a greater degree of secrecy. i think from their perspective and his perspective, coming out of the pandemic because they've suppressed far fewer in the west, we've upgraded, they've organized, they not believe lack of cooperation is a problem so they have this cooperation with this assumption of conspiracy against them and they see an opportunity they believe so i just don't think we see, as far as we can tell, we don't see the consideration of the. of it being a huge error or major mistakes in the the same way you do here so i would hope they would have a period of this but i think it's more likely certainly for domestic audience that they say we are over 50000 that now in the united states and about the same in europe. >> we've got about two or three minutes left to let me conclude with the question of my own which is, what your prediction is for this pandemic, by when do you think, it's up two-part question.s when you think it'

gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> and at 5:25 p.m., the hoover institution and the ronald reagan presidential foundation and stult look back at the evolution of president reagan's tear down this wall speech, it's important more than three decades later. the white house speechwriter behind the address peter robinson participated in the event. it forms the american story, watch american history tv saturday on c-span 2. and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime hat c-span.org/history. ♪ >> sunday night on queuing day, in his latest book, edward, professor of philosophy at the university of british columbia looks at the purpose of intoxication and the role that drinking has played throughout history. >> alcohol makes it harder to lie. it also makes us better at detecting lies. humans are not over focusing consciously on detecting lies. we do not do a good job of it. we relax and take in the cues that are put out. are hall -- alcohol, in the same way that we meet and shake hands, cultures use intoxicants at meetings where you have to find a way to cooperate. it is a

gorbachev. tear down thisll wall. foundatin and institute hosts a look back at the evolution of president reagan's "tear down this wall" speech and its importance more than three decades later. the white house speechwriter behind the address participated in the event. exploring the american story. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online any time at c-span.org/history. >> next, we visit plimoth patuxet and plymouth, massachusetts, to explore the re-created 17th century colonial village and talk to interpreters about daily life. the you depicted is 1627, seven years after the mayflower landed when about 160 pilgrims lived there. >> i am richard pickering, executive director at plimoth patuxet museum and we are in 17th century english village, a recreation of ply >> i am the deputy director and we are in the 17th century english village a week creation of plymouth has it looks seven years after the mayflower landed. when our guests enter the historic s

gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> mirrored the muscular american 1980s, china's new attitude became known as wolf warrior diplomacy. and its real-life champion -- is xi jinping. ♪ xi has made a big departure from decades of a very different chinese foreign policy. to understand how, we need to remember china's first leader, mao zedong. mao was one of the world's most notorious revolutionaries. h hell bent on destroying western capitalism, inspiring and aiding insurgencies all over the globe. >> bma, thailand, ta malaysia, the philippines, cambodia. >> they call themselves marxist leninist maoists. >> the guerrilla movement. >> each a nuclear apocalypse was acceptable to mao in his great struggle. if worst came to worst and half of mankind died, he said, imperialism want razed to the ground and the whole world would become socialist. >> thank you. >> mao's successor, deng xiaoping had a toottlely opposite approach. >> millions have died bar lack of food. >> his main goal was to make his poverty stricken country rich. so he opened their borders to trade and sought peaceful coexisten

. >> mikhail gorbachev was termed the party leader of the soviet union, but he is most remembered as terminating paris troika that led to the end of the so-called war. when it comes to de klerk, do you think if he had came up just come out and said i'm sorry, but apartheid was a crime against humanity, that would have made a massive change? >> yes, perhaps, but apologies are not enough, and white south africans in the country and their leaders have never apologized and made reparations for apartheid. it if lack south africans, they remained landless in their own land. their economic fortunes are devastated. we are the most unequal society in the world. what a leader that fw de klerk should have done is to structurally transform the economy to return stolen land, to transform the economic fortunes of black people, but that has not happened. apology alone is not sufficient. it would be the most genuine reparations for the grievous harm done to black south africans. i also want to say something, it is very dangerous because he was forced -- the apartheid regime had lost legitimacy. ther

they worry about gorbachev and that analogy in glasnost. we've seen a greater degree of secrecy. i think from their perspective, his perspective they come relatively well out of the pandemic because faces breast far fewer deaths in the west.we looked very disorganizedthey were organized . they don't believe the lack of cooperation isn't there problem. the crisis now is domestic consumption, there there's a conspiracy against them and they see an opportunity that the us is in decline . you don't see as far as we can tell from the reportage a dialogue. you don't see this consideration of a period that that was a huge error or we made major mistakes and that in the sameway you do here . i would hope that they would have a reflection on how to handle the pandemic but it's more likely certainly for a domestic audience they've crossed this line and we are over 650,000 dead in the united states and about the same in europe. >> we've only got two or three minutes left so let me contribute the question of my own which is what your prediction is for this pandemic. i wendy you think and thi

gorbachev. tear down this wall. >> at 5:25 p.m., the hoover institution posts a look back at the evolution of the tear down this wall speech and its importance more than three decades later. the speechwriter behind this address participated in the event. exploring the american story. watch american history tv on c-span two and find a schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime on c-span.org/history. >> sunday night on q and a. in his latest book, a professor looks at the purpose of intoxication. >> alcohol makes it harder to live. -- lie. it makes us better at detecting lies. when we are focusing consciously on laws but relax and taken cues, we do a better job. alcohol, in the same way we meet and shake hands, to show we are not holding a weapon, cultures use intoxicants at meetings or anything where hostile people need to figure out a way to operate as a cognitive determinant. >> you can listen to q1 date and all of ourcoming up next, a sene confirmation hearing, including the deputy

i think they worry about gorbachev and that analogy and glasnost. we have seen a greater degree of secrecy. you know i think from their perspective or his perspective they have come out of the pandemic because they suppressed it and there were far fewer deaths. we look disorganized. they were organized. they don't believe. that the lak of cooperation is a problem. they created this narrative that it's a conspiracy against them and they have seen an opportunity that they believe the us is in the crime and i don't think you see-- you don't see as far as you can tell that has been reported a dialogue. you don't see this consideration of the period that it was a huge error or major mistakes in that. so, i would hope they would have a period of reflection on how they handle the pandemic, but i think it's more likely certainly for domestic audience that they cross this line that they have very well and we have an over 650,000 dead now in the united stateses and about the same in europe. >> we only have a few minutes left, so let me conclude with the quest