is tim gordon, author of catholic republic and rules for retrograde. thanks for joining me. tim. thanks have me. good to be with you. okay, so i know your expertise is obviously those of the catholic faith. i'm going to ask you in on your research. you obviously see were you other face might also have some issues in this. you obviously have some knowledge of it. i'm seeing those of muslim faith already. question the say of the choice was between a transplant with a pig, oregon versus death. they're going to choose death. that's a serious question for several different religious groups right now that how you see it. it's a tricky question with a lot of gray area, it can be morally acceptable to introduce human cells into experimental animals. in medical research, it can also be morally acceptable to transplant tissues from a non human animal into human being. if this can be done safely, what's wrong is to create real uncertainty or perplexity. as when scientists in the 1920s attempted to do this, they tried to cross human beings with non human primates. so it's the closeness of th