i read walter whitman and frances perkins was a great civil rights figure, we vented this before. even in more near death experiences, closer to death than we are now. it was affirming almost a watch americans in earlier times deal some of the same political issues and find their way through them. and give examples to us that we can use all that we to live in her own moment. the book was an intense experience that really began with the fear of the pre-election. and ended with the really cautious hope of the bided inauguration in the beginning of the pandemic. it was an intense three months that he think i am still recovering from. >> i do feel like the ending does have a slightly more optimistic note than the beginning. i don't know if it's because i was talking throughout the period, i feel good by the time the book is over. even though you've taken us through quite a lot of what is wrong with this. i do still have that american hope you are also dealing with. the idea of self government that you are drawing is essential to the book. and indeed it's something probably would've fo

i read a lot of tocqueville, walter litman, frances perkins, roosevelt's secretary of labor, rustin, great civil rights figure. we have been through this before. we have been in even more near-death experiences, closer to death that we are now, but it was kind of affirming almost to watch americans in fairly are times deal with some of the same issues and find their way through them, and give examples to us that we can use, even though we have to live in our own moment. so the book, yeah, was an intense experience that really began with the fear of the pre-election period, and ended with the really cautious hope of the biden inauguration and the beginning of the ending of the pandemic. it was an intense, three-month arc that i think i am still recovering from. thomas: i do feel like the ending has a slightly more optimistic note that the beginning dies. it is palpable. i don't know if i was talking -- if it is because i was talking to you throughout, but i feel good by the time the book is overcome even though you have taken through -- taken us through quite a lot of what is wrong wi

missy lehan, frances perkins. the reason i put daisy suckley in there, she earned the distinction of first friend not by advising on a critical policy decision or speaking hard truths to him like so many other friends in my book did, but just by being his constant and loyal companion. what i found so surprising about fdr is how lonely he felt in the white house. it's hard to believe -- he's fighting depression, fighting a world war, but he had no home life. he had no real emotional relationship with his wife, eleanor, who was out of d.c. most of the time crusading for her causes. so he says to daisy one time, i'm either exhibit a or left entirely alone. daisy was the antidote to that loneliness. she came him the comfort he needed. she could read his emotions better than anyone else and was his favorite person to relax with. one day in 1944 he had 22 separate meetings. afterward i would have wanted to crawl in a hole. what did he want to do? he wanted to have dinner alone with daisy suckley. she could intuit his mi

he had the first female cabinet secretary, frances perkins, who was a secretary of labor. he liked being around women. he really liked being around daisy. he was just the right chemistry for him. what i found what you just said so interesting about fdr, is that even though he's fighting a war, fighting a depression, he is expense lyintensely lonely. he says to her once, i'm either exhibit "a" or left entirely alone. he didn't have much of a relationship with his wife, ele eleanor, who was galavanting around the world on behalf of her causes. so daisy was the anecdote to that loneliness. one historian said to me in the book, fdr would have been a much more unsettled and less natural president had he not had daisy in it. >> sounds like daisy gave him that emotional fulfillment he was missing at the time. what a fascinating story. such an interesting book, gary ginsburg, thank you so much. author of "first friends: the powerful unsung and unelected people who shaped our presidents." thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> well, he risked his life for the u.s., now his life is at