what are doj's perspective on things, do you think doj did a rate call? >> the rise to defend my own behavior. it was not simply a difference about a policy matter. in which the white house has -- it was in part a question of what it was that would prevail, and what it was that would not. what would work, what would not. i thought that listening to paul clementa, who's experience in the supreme court far outweighed my own, or anybody that was in the white house. really -- and by far the better reasoning, it was not that he was entirely inconsistent with the white house, but i went with his judgment rather than the judgment i was asked to be apply. ultimately, the decision prevailed. >> so, judge, i have three examples, i don't know how they would cut in your construct, but i will give them to you anyway. number one, i have a fox when day from a not senior person in the white house, it was a about a criminal case, it had scribble on the top that said can you take care of this. i took the facts, and i got in the car, and i drove over, or was driven over to

, doj plays a role. in. these are presidential decisions. the president doesn't make those decisions without consulting the department of justice and obviously in the case of u.s. attorneys and the like, senators play a very significant role in that as well. >> by the way, we don't have to, i don't mean to divert from the question you were asking, judge. i was going to say, the office legal counsel has an enormous impact on the white house on issues simply because it is the office of legal counsel and it has often been remarked, frequently after exploring the legal counsel's opinion on a subject, the white house is very anxious not to have it put to paper. but it provides a little more flexibility in how it wants to proceed. they have the upper hand because they're viewed rightly or wrongly, no offense to you. sort of the honest broker. and with the white house, the legal position is different than the olc's. the general assumption is they are wrong. so olc is very powerful. we don't have to discuss this

and communications with doj are put out. there's questions about the application go to the white house council. real the first point of contact, the most critical one, was needed and more routine. with the attorney general, and with the head of office of of legal counsel and also with the solicitor general. i want to return to a point that jamie made there. may be some sense tough tis around enforcement intervention by the white house, in particular, civil litigation members and it's certainly true that a line molds to be drown and how it would apply in several areas bear on the off the of the presidency and that's often dealing with the position that the -- there are a variety of ways, including the appointment to the united states, the positions that an administration takes before the supreme court on constitutional questions could very well implicate presidential equities very connectly, very significantly so i always viewed the white house counsel as, again, properly socialized and representing the views of the executive

this is why people like me often say doj needs to be independent of the president, because if doj, in fact, did whatever the president told it to do, which bill barr and other attorneys general have taken that position, then there would have been no safeguard here, but because doj is independent, and rosen and donahue stood up for that, we did have a safety barrier in place to prevent sort of the worst case scenario here. >> wouldn't it have helped if they had come out sooner and talked about this? >> yeah, i think that's a fair question. remember, this phone call happened december 27th. that's about ten days before january 6th. if they had come out, this could have been a real sort of pulling back the curtain moment because here you have donald trump acknowledging this is just nonsense, he's asking doj, just sort of make it up for me and i'll take it from here. if that had become broadly known publicly, then perhaps it could have taken some of the steam, out of the big lie before january 6th. i think that's a fair point. >> i suppose. i mean, who knows. who knows if the people who sh

the doj made news on another front today. issuing an opinion that the treasury department must turn over trump's tax returns to congressional committee that has been fighting to get them for the past two years. we're going to get to all of this in a moment. but we begin "the reid out" with an alarming and grim newport rat of the fight to contain the coronavirus. an internal cdc document urging officials to acknowledge the war has changed. warning that the new delta variant appears to cause more severe illness and could spread as easily as chicken pox. it is more transmissible than ebola and the common cold and the seasonal flu and smallpox. and fully vaccinated people might spread the delta variant at the same right as unvaccinated people. nse messaging which now includes measures to incentivize vaccination and a requirement for federal employees. in the last day the white house has made a shift from encouraging or pleasing with americans to get vaccinated, to applying restrictions and inconveniences to those who won't. shift

that was the doj's architect. now biden's lawyers running doj, including the office of legal council, what they said is look even if some members of congress are hoping that the president will be embarrassed by the contents of his tax returns, hard to imagine why he would be. maybe some are hoping that. what the doj says even if they are help hoping that, it's not germane to whether or not congress has a legitimate reason to reach for the tax returns and the llc confirms, yes, they do have a legitimate legislative reason. one thing in history that's cited in the doj opinion is the reason congress got the power to pick individual people's tax returns, this committee did, is because of bribery, corruption and scandal. the law was changed in 1924. because congressional vrths during the tea pot dome scandal, which involved bribery, felt that they were getting stiff-armed by the irs. they carried that investigation out. they changed the law and the first time a member of a president's cabinet went to prison was the res

but then, also, how close we were to having the doj do his bidding. as you pointed out with kbo in the previous segment, jeff clark was probably tasked with doing exactly what mr. rosen and mr. donahue refused to do which is to call the election corrupt. the other part of it which i find fascinating is the part where he says, leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. i don't know what that means, ali. i don't know what they had in store, whether they had planned for this doj maneuver to take place and then they had certain steps to follow, but that is equally disturbing as well. >> who gets to the bottom of that is that the general six select committee or you on the oversight committee? i would very much like to know the answers to those questions that you just asked. >> i think we're gonna pro parked on this. i know that i have a lot of questions for instance about, he brought up jim jordan in that conversation, he brought up ron johnson the senator from wisconsin who he says, quote unquote, gets to the bottom of things. and we just don't

trump and his chief of staff stovepiped their election-fraud claims right to the doj -- doj leadership. demanding that the department investigate the fraud to -- to delegitimize joe biden's win. just this week, we learned just how extensive this pressure campaign was. "washington post" reported that trump's called his acting-attorney general, jeffrey rosen, almost every day about the so-called fraud in the aftermath of the election. the attorney general's top aide took notes about what the former president said on those phone calls. for anyone trying to get to the bottom of whether or not donald trump was trying to improperly weaponize the justice department to help him stay in power, it would be important to know, exactly, what was said on those calls. and today, we found out. "the new york times" was the first to report, today, on the contents of those notes about donald trump's calls to the attorney general after the election. according to "the times," donald trump called his attorney general, as well as his deputy, on december 27th of last year to ask him about claims of voter frau

we also have an update with some news coming out of the doj. it involves a very controversial pharma bro and also wu-tang and maybe your tax dollars. we'll explain. dollars we'll explain. so, you have diabetes, here are some easy rules. no sugar. no pizza. no foods you love. stressed? no stress. exercise. but no days off! easy, no? no. no. no. no. but with freestyle libre 14 day, you can take the mystery out of your diabetes. now you know. sir, do you know what you want to order? yes. freestyle libre 14 day. try it for free. experience our advance standards safety technology on a full line of vehicles. at the lexus golden opportunity sales event. get 1.9% apr financing on the 2021 rx 350. experience amazing. limu emu... and doug. on the 2021 rx 350. so then i said to him, you oughta customize your car insurance with liberty mutual, so you only pay for what you need. oh um, doug can we talk about something other than work, it's the weekend. yeah, yeah. [ squawk ] hot dog or... chicken? [ squawk ] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty.

i don't know what is going on inside the doj. merrick garland has this job and harry, i think, could speak to this from his own perspective. the restoration of morale, the restoration of xe tension, repairing the damage of the last four years is a gargantuan task. i know merrick garland takes it seriously. i don't have a window into all or most of the internal work that's being done to try to reckon with what happened along the lines that you're talking about. i do think it is going on to some degree. i think there is a large question and i understand harry's argument and the point about needing to preserve and the department is trying to keep this focused on january 6th because it is unprecedented, because it does allow certain kinds of breaks from tradition that are warranted. i do think there is this larger question, the one you're getting at and it would be -- it's one of those things that for the good of not just the long term of the country but for the immediate term we are going to have another presidential election in 202

bill barr left the doj in a bad place. ultimately doj comes down the line prosecutors, what i was, people in the trenches, trying cases. i talk a lot in this book about cases i tried and experiences i had. there are policies and laws we need to pass to help doj establish their independence. so much of a quality prosecutor comes down the quality of the person. the quality of the person's ethics and personality. >> the book is "hatchet man." please make sure you check it out. i got my copy now and reading through it after the show is over. it will be out in bookstores. out in bookstores now as a matter of fact. thanks so much for coming on. great to see you in person. a rare in studio performance by elie honig. we'll be back in a few minutes. its dual-action formula tackles grease and limescale. finish. clean dishwasher. clean dishes. real progress? when you're affected by schizophrenia, you see it differently. it's in the small, everyday moments. and in the places, you'd never expect. a little sign of hope. the feeling of f

the doj made news on another front today. issuing an opinion that the treasury department must turn over trump's tax returns to congressional committee that has been fighting to get them for the past two years. we're going to get to all of this in a moment. but we begin "the reid out" with an alarming and grim newport rat of the fight to contain the coronavirus.

what i would i view as a necessary stick approach to doj. for their abuse what is the what is an appropriate punitive measure? i mean if in a regular criminal case with physical evidence going to have. um, the exclusionary issues that will come in if there's fruit of the poison street etc. what happens here? what is the punitive measure that devolves to to bad actors doj mr. professor to go with you and then write down the table and then well, i i certainly agree with your point that the courts have not exactly covered themselves in glory and part of the problem here is that these judges are getting thousands of these things and they don't want to go into the into the weeds on some of these issues. and so you have cases like nra grand jury out of the ed new york that are saying look this is boilerplate. we're just getting boilerplate over and over again, and that's not saying anything you're going to have to structure what a court has to find and what a court must establish and writing if we're going to be able to do anything and i think you

and that's a problem for doj. doj works best when people can have confidence in its work. so anything that promotes transparency plays well for this current justice department. >> is it just the inspector general's own decision as to whether or not the investigation happens, or can the attorney general and -- ends in >> the inspector general has the ability to go away -- to go ahead and investigate the -- he's not entirely independent of working with the attorney general, typically, season has the ability to review its reports before the released. but rachel, it's interesting there a couple of different mechanisms here for accountability. doj also has the office of professional responsibility which reviews whether prosecutors and career employees have done anything that might violate their ethical obligations. so it's possible that if anyone inside doj, or outside for that matter, has information that something happened here to hunt down on these cases that was in hopper, they can report that to opp our which can then conduct the investigation. there are a lot of investiga

and the doj now says the treasury department must turn over six years' worth of trump's tax returns to the house ways and means committee. the congressman who serves on the committee telling msnbc how they could be used. >> the reason we sought the returns in the first place was because the ways and means committee needed this information to determine whether or not we need to legislatively require the president's returns to be audited on a regular basis. >> and breaking on capitol hill, the senate has convened for a rare saturday session as it hammers out the final details of that bipartisan infrastructure plan. let's go right to nbc's ali vitali. how optimistic are the lawmakers feeling right now? >> reporter: you can really feel the energy here on capitol hill. the desire to get things moving on this bipartisan infrastructure package. we actually just heard from senate majority leader chuck schumer just a little bit ago. his message on a pretty empty senate floor was effectively to the people who are writing this bill, hurry up. listen. >> i understand that writing the text of the b

turley, you mentioned that the current doj procedures require senior doj leadership to sign off on these secret subpoenas, is that correct? >> yes, that's correct. >> as you noted the three most senior officials at the department of justice during the relevant time period both former attorneys general sessions and barr and deputy ag rosenstein all deny that they signed off on arena, is as in this that right? >> that's my understanding, yes. >> so do you think the process faileded or are these answers fm those officials disingenuous? >> well, that's the first thing i put in my testimony for this committee too confirm because i does make sense to me that that standard of a high level of approval was put in in the 1970s asft part of reforms overall, tn after that controversy during the obama administration it was ramped up again. that was reaffirmed that you need t that type of signoff. this is one of those things that sort off should make the sand bounce over in the department of justice. i mean, if m you're coming up wh a t search that's hitting on journalists or members of congress you w

including telling the doj to, quote, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me. bill kristol put it bluntly, this was the closest we've ever come to a genuine presidential usurpation. but that wasn't the only major development coming from the attorney generals justice department today. the doj reversed an earlier decision and now says the irs must release six years of trump's tax returns to help investigation. just a few days ago the doj said it won't move to block former trump officials to testify in front of the january 6th committee. so plenty to talk about tonight with victoria defrancesco, a cyst and dean at the university of texas in austin. and the aid for mentioned bill kristol, author, writer, thinker, veteran of the reagan and bush administration's an editor at large at the bulwark. great to see you both. bill crystal, put it in perspective for us, how does trump's pressure on the doj reveal how close we are to serving the presidency? >> you know, chris, the events of january six that were so dramatic and drawback to a high relief of the very moving tes

the doj says the irs has to release them. democrats say it is a victory for congressional oversight and national security, but there's a different take from democratic congressman gerry connolly. >> i don't see it as a great victory. i see it as a signal failure of the system. it took two years to adjudicate this and to get the department of justice to finally agree that, yeah, you are entitled to see those tax returns. the american people were entitled to know while he was in office, and it might have materially affected, by the way, the two impeachments. >> so quickly, victoria, is this a better late than never scenario? how important do you think it is that congress could see those returns now? >> i do. i do think it is better late than never, and going back to what i said earlier i think that structurally congress needs to be able to flex that muscle. that being said, we know the playbook that donald trump is going to use. it is a witch hunt, is what was very successful in him defending himself in his first impeachment, i

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the doj waived executive privilege. what questions do they need to answer now that they don't have a muzzle so to speak of privilege? >> this will be a fascinating piece of testimony if we ever get to hear it and i'm sure our representatives in congress will be asking things like exactly what did the president say to you? what did you think he meant by making those statements? how did you react to that? did you tell him in response? they will parse through every detail of this conversation really to shed light on the president's intent. what was he trying to accomplish with this pressure campaign on the department of justice? i think the end result will be to expose yet another abuse of the office of the presidency. >> andrew mccabe, thank you. appreciate it. >> thanks, laura. >>> you know, just days after trump told the doj to overturn a free, fair and democratic election, this happened. an insurrection. but now that justice department is signaling that they want answers. i'll make my case next. people everywhere livin

representative: doj was not the lead agency? mr. rosen: doj had responsibilities for coordinating intelligence and information sharing with respect to federal agencies, dhs, interior, dod and ourselves. there have been very robust information sharing and intelligence sharing activities with metropolitan police having a joint operations command center and the fbi having a washington field office post where representatives of all police organizations and federal agencies were participating. representative: nailing down who was in charge as been like trying to nail jell-o to a wall. and the old adage, when everybody is in charge, nobody is in charge, appears to be what happened january 6. mr. rosen: i don't think that is right. representative: reclaiming my time. this appears to be a keystone cops operation when it comes to the executive ranch and pointing fingers at one another. i would like to ask mr. miller, and i'm going to give you another opportunity to correct the record, if it were not for the violent rhetoric of donald trump,

speaking of doj though, this incident does really underscore how important it is that doj remain independent from the president because credit is due here to jeffrey rosen and others at doj who said to donald trump, we're not going to go along with this. >> it appears according to the reporting we've seen that trump essentially went door to door seeking people to be implicit in his attempt to overthrow democracy and again and again, had the door shut in his face. so the doj has instructed the treasury department to turn over former president trump's tax returns. a viewer is asking, will the house ways and means committee obtain trump's tax returns and when will the public see them? >> so yesterday was a big step towards congress getting those tax returns. the justice department has now changed its position from the trump doj and now saying, yes, treasury, the irs does have to turn over trump's tax returns to congress. that's what the law says, by the way. now the ball's in trump's court. he can still challenge this legally, but it's going to be really difficult for him. the law's pretty clea

carley: new york governor andrew cuomo doing a victory lap after the doj announced it was dropping its investigation into whether or not he mishandled covid 19 and nursing homes, the governor is saying that investigation into him was politically motivated and cool. watch. >> it was toxic politics. it violated the basic concept of justice in this nation and a lot of harm and damage. people who lost a loved one in the nursing home, it could have been prevented. it was a mistake by government bureaucrats, that is why your loved one died. how cool. >> is calling the investigation cool but in march of 2020 his administration ordered nursing homes to accept covid positive patients, then it was discovered his office had underreported a number of people who died as a result. aside from the nursing home scandal new york attorney general letitia james's office currently investigating sexual harassment allegations and whether he misused state resources to write that book. that investigation wrapping up very soon. >> i'm dumbfounded by the brazenness of this organization's requested is unlike anyt

it's very stark to see it reflected in official notes taken by a doj official. and beyond that, doj fights pretty fiercely on most occasions to protect us internal work product from outside eyes. that suggests they're important and oversight functions that need to go forward here. it's a very unusual step by doj. >> yeah. i should just make sure i said it correctly. he's the deputy attorney general not the attorney general. joyce and david, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. our other breaking news at the moment startling new information about covid-19. alarming details about just how strong the delta variant is. so much so that it is causing more vaccinated people to become infected. and the white house is pressed with tough questions about the messaging. you're watching "ayman mohyeldin reports." ing. you're watching "ayman mohyeldin report s. you need an ecolab scientific clean here. and here. which is why the scientific expertise that helps operating rooms stay clean now helps the places you go too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. f

that is a recipe for trouble and frankly as part of the reason lmpd is in trouble with the doj. this is for people engaged in violence. identifying with a network of associates whether or not there is gang violence or weird see their actions with drugs moving through the city it is focusing on specific individuals for violent crimes. so you have a very direct directive about this is who you are looking for but this is also what you are looking for. in other words, searching a vehicle should be an exception, and not the norm. it is understanding that going to the higher level charge, when you give yourself a high five because you got some weed off of someone, that is embarrassing. that is not going to change crime in the city. it is really messaging what our focus is and this is the path to get there. >> you mentioned the question of sending mental health clinicians into scenes where people are in crisis. we had a recent story where the clinicians were not always so thrilled to jump into a hot scene. you have got something going called the deflection initiative. how does that wor

the doj is going to court making a point. they go further saying and this is important inciting or conspireing to forment a violent attack on the capitol. i can tell you doj did not have to go that far. to be as fair as possible, whether or not this was in incitement or a crime had not been decided yes. what we were discussing this week on "the beat," trump officials be hauled in and forced to testify under oath under january 6th. >> these letters make it so that justice former officials will have to testify or try to hire personal lawyers to avoid a testimony which will lead nowhere and this could lead to donald trump himself testifying and the chief of staff and mark meadows and all these people are potential folks or subject, they don't have executive privilege anymore. >> we hear a lot about accountability and justice is in our system that can take time. we have a special guest on this, someone who has spent many years on justice for officials. we are back in 60 seconds with nick akerman. nick akerman ll that chaos. ♪so

the doj was a gut check. but that said, what they have come in the doj and their concerns and what they have asked to look at, anything that anything that i have not heard i did not already expect and at some level is public. so it is ok. it is not going to be easy or inexpensive. this department will be stronger but once it navigates through it. host: in atlanta, you stepped down as chief after one of your officers shot and killed rayshard brooks, a man who was running away from them in a wendy's parking lot and that came shortly after the death of george floyd. it sparked more protests, atlanta in the spotlight. are there some large lessons you have taken away from that that made you a better chief? >> i think there are always lessons. i think what i would say to folks is every incident is different. i think what you will see and what you are seeing and why there is a hesitancy from the community to take that officer to trial. rayshard brooks, his death is absolutely a tragedy. what i will say is we follow

the doj deciding they should not open an inquiry at this time. for more than a year, critics sounded off against new york governor andrew cuomo's early pandemic policy which centre covering covid-19 patients into nursing homes. even more when the state attorney general released her report finding cuomo's administration withheld the true number of deaths in these facilities. >> there's multiple investigations happening at the federal level, state level, and we will get to a point where we can hold this governor accountable. >> reporter: republican congresswoman nicole malliotakis responding, writing: this is absolutely disgraceful that the doj is ignoring repeated calls to investigate governor cuomo and his executive order that led to the unnecessary death of nearly 15,000 seniors in new york state. and family members are calling this news heartbreaking. many of them held rallies and protests against those early pandemic policies calling for justice for their late loved ones. the doj's letter, however, did state that there is an ongoing investigat

you remember the doj's investigating his alleged-sexual relationship with a minor. he told cnn that he thought the question was nosey, and said, quote, i think we should be talking more about freeing britney. serious, right? he's a serious congressman. one of those hardest-hit states has a senator, and you know him, it's ted cruz. it's been exactly a year, since he made this prediction. >> if it ends up that biden wins, in november. i hope he doesn't. i don't think he will. but if he does, i guarantee you, the week after the election, suddenly, all those democratic governors, all those democratic mayors will say everything's magically better. go back to work, go back to school. suddenly, the problems are solved. you won't even have to wait for biden to be sworn in.

does the doj's go back and say actually we don't need that anymore? can you give us some knowledge about that? >> we have a case where 15 years ago very, very beginning of cloud computing, it is still a sealed proceeding. i mentioned it in my testimony. i think this is a critical problem. you have to have a sunset provision of the very least but again if you have pentagon paper type standards the greek and even it into this kind of the secrecy order, you are not going to have a big problem. national security and secrecy orders are a very small percentage of what were talking about. you would have a sunset and a small problem. >> so mr. burt, i was struck by the data of microsoft receiving 5500 requests just in first half of 2020, and your company turning over basic data to 54% of the requests. compare that to the "new york times" reporting that apple turned over basic data in 43%, google turned it over in 83%. they spoke turned over in between 85-89%. 89%. it seems to me that were essentially depending on tech companies in this case to negotiate the c

it's about damn time, that's how congressman bill passed grow a member of the house ways described the doj's announcement that the treasury department must turn over six years of donald trump's tax return to house investigators on the committee. the committee first made the request 849 days ago. the bill barr justice department which operated as the donald trump justice department block his return from being released despite the fact that the law is absolutely clear that the treasury department shall turn over any tax documents requested by a tax writing committee in the congress. today merrick garland's justice department says the committee's request to see the records is lawful, valid and should be fulfilled. quote, applying the proper degree of deference due to the committee we agree that there is ample basis to conclude that it's june 2021 requests for trump's tax information was for the committee's principal objective to assessing the irs's presidential audit program, a legitimate area for inquiry and possible legislation. ways and means chairman said this about the decision " as i've m

doj deserves some credit here. i was certainly critical of the justice department under trump, but for taking a stand and doing what doj does and standing up for truth and in a sense justice as the name suggests. this really is an astonishing abuse of power by the president and there needs to be accountability in congress and potentially elsewhere. >> obviously chairwoman maloney says he's going to bring witnesses in the chair. it will be interesting in the former acting attorney general publicly testifies about it. appreciate the hustle. >>> when we come back, another breaking news story. we thought the president's infrastructure plan would clear a procedural vote, but there's a hiccup in the senate. we'll tell you what's going on next. i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! [sighs wearily] here, i'll take that! woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and now with two new flavors! you founded your k

these are the handwritten notes taken by a senior doj official on a december 27th phone call. they show acting attorney general jeffrey rosen telling trump, the doj can't and won't snap its fingers and change the outcome of the election. trump had an answer for that argument. don't expect you to do that. just say that the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the "r" -- republican -- congressmen. in public, trump was pushing the same falsehood. >> the truth is we won the election by a landslide. we won it big. >> reporter: but according to the notes, richard donoghue, the number two official at doj told him flat out that much of the info he is getting is false. we look at the allegations but they do not pan out. the justice department launched dozens of allegations and claims of voter fraud, interviews hundreds of peop.nonened out. p's response? "you guys may not be following the internetheay i do." the department ruling th trump's tax rur handed overhe investigators. all signs it's a new sheriff in town. >> terry, thank you. >>> the biden administration carry out

according to the doj, not only did these men talk about it, but they had enough fire power to carry out their attacks. authorities already caught up to this man, ian rogers, from napa on january 15th. they searched his home and his business, british auto repair, where they seized a collection of guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition and five pipe bombs. the indictment describes how rogers communicated with 37-year-old jarrod copeland on multiple messaging platforms. authorities say rogers wrote i want to blow up a democrat building bad. copeland responding, i agree, plan attack. >> the rhetoric that he's espousing on his chat that, you know, talked about all the hate and discontent he had for if, you know, if trumpidn't w e thod o tngs, people take that real seriously today. >> reporter: kpix security analyst and former fbi agent jeff hart believes someone on the inside came forward to authorities. >> these domestic terrorism cases are usually initiated by an undercover operation or an informant or somebody tipping somebody off. >> reporter: doj says that rogers wrote to copeland afte

the video that just got released by the doj from the body cam of one of the officers. you heard one of these insurrectionists say, you're going to die tonight. that is not what a tourist says. and that is the reality. and so, when you see and hear and experience and feel more and more of what this insurrection was all about, it's less the lies and less the fiction that's being peddled by people like donald trump. >> not normal at all. jill, i have to ask you, the pin you are wearing what is the commentary on today's story? >> that is very clear. it's a fence. it's actually a wall that donald trump probably wanted, not the fence he got, surrounding our capitol, a thing i was really sad to see. and it's coming down today and that's a good thing that we have our capitol back. i'm very happy to see that happening. >> all right. katie and jill, how lucky are we that you spent some of your saturday with us. thank you so much. >>> next, congresswoman ayanna pressley joins us with her plan to provide student debt relief. >>> and later, the cost of not getting a shot. almost al

let's get into this here because we have several major doj headlines to talk about. let's start with the doj saying that the irs has to turn over trump's tax returns to a house committee. what is the legal significance of this? >> well, the legal significance of this is that congress's balance of power with the executive branch is being properly maintained. the statute that this happens under actually requires that the treasury department shall provide this sort of material to congress upon a request. there's a very low threshold here perhaps for treasury and the justice department to make sure that this is pursuant to a legitimate congressional inquiry, but congress has more than met this threshold and it is long past time for this sort of action to be taken here. this really restores the balance of power between the branches of government. >> in terms of time, joyce, how long is it going to take for congress to get these documents, and does it mean that they would be released to the public at some point officially? i mean there may be leaks, but officially could th

griff jenkins joins us live as senator paul is asking the doj for a criminal referral. >> reporter: it was supposed to be hearing about the delta variant and vaccinations but it did quickly turn into a fight over covid origins as senator paul and doctor fauci traded accusations live. are referring to was judged by qualified staff up and down the chain as not being gain of function. you do not know what you are talking about. >> gain of function research was going on in that lab in your abuse getting the truth. >> if anybody is lying here it is you. >> senator paul has been long a critic of doctor fauci and he continued to maintain the 2015 paper about bad coronavirus is written by xi lee, is indeed proof that they financed this gain of function research which increases the transmissibility of viruses. >> we quoted a scientist from rutgers university with a 30 year history in cellular biology this it was the epitome of gain of function research and all doctor fauci could do was call me a liar. >> reporter: paul sending a letter to the doj asking for, referral on fauci. he said at one po

the doj says this is an extraordinary circumstance, the right to confidentiality is to the benefit of the nation, and in this case, a sitting president, so it is ok. the doj also allowing officials to give what they're calling unrestricted testimony to congressional investigators looking at donald trump's conduct after the election. anchor: thank you very much for reporting on that from washington, d.c. i want to bring you developments with amazon. the eu has hit him with a fine for breaking data processing rules. the tech giant said it will appeal against the fine. european regulators are taking a tough line against tech companies. this case was launched in 2018 with a french privacy rights rupert. you are watching the news hour live from london. still ahead. >> they found out were it not for my mother's assassination, it would have been transformed completely into a mafia state. anchor: the family of a murdered maltese journalist finding the state bears responsibility, but sing the fight will go on. we explore the lakes and rivers of iraq and why they are drying up. and in sports, a

talk about that. >> doj will hold any of its internal work product, particularly notes that a senior official might take in a known call. that is not something they turn over without a fight. but they believe the events are so important and the information is so critical, they're going to permit former trump administration folks to give unrestricted testimony. they're not going to exert executive privilege and they are turning over documents. this is serious stuff. whether it's criminal requires investigation, but certainly, the investigation is merited. >> and joyce, is the information relevant to what is happening in georgia, the fulton county criminal probe into a phone call in which trump tried to pressure the georgia secretary of state, find me 10,780 votes? >> so jonathan, the interplay between the two events is pretty interesting. let me talk about one way it might be significant. prosecutors have a hard time so prove intent. was there a plan to overturn the results of a legitimate election? and something that makes it more likely it was intentional rather than an accident, if

are the doj actions enough? >> this is doj doing the best it can with the tools that it's been given. president biden did a really remarkable job at doj of putting in folks who are some of the leaders in voting rights litigation in this country in place, folks like kristen clark, the leader of the civil rights division who will push the laws as they are currently structured as far as they can. but they can only go so far. the georgia lawsuit is interesting, because they were careful to challenge that georgia law based on intent to discriminate by the georgia legislature. there was a unique timeline that let them make those arguments. it's not clear yet whether they'll be successful. ultimately they want what the country needs, which is hr-1, an act that will strengthen laws around registration and make it easier for folks to exercise their right to vote, as well as hr-4, the john lewis voting rights act which would restore essentially what shelby county took away, restoring preclearance and making it more diffic