and you specifically cited two books, robin deangelis white fertility and how to be an anti- race - why those two books. preventing student will in parts because those books between them sold approximately 1.2 salient copies. i was in the summer of 2020, and you know that. around the george floyd protest. they represent how a certain kind of progressive ideology on race, how to practice in the use of public policies, and views on assorted how we should deal with racism like kind of a corporate antiracist a training freighted that you hear too much about and often straight out of robin dn entered d'angelo's work for lakers and a lot of the pushes to you know, sort of do away with the revised education academic standard and i think to the argument that programs are themselves •-ellipsis you know the revealing differences that are creating differences in any way with an all business display with a desire to make america a more equal society and deserve justice experience in this shows up in the certified progressive energy right now but to the extent that the ashes is through you know. w

and you specifically cited two books, robin deangelo's white fragility and ibram kendi's how to be an anti-racist. why those two books? >> guest: well, in art because those books -- in part because those books between them sold approximately 1.2 zillion copies -- the. [laughter] in the summer of 2020 in, you know, the period around the george floyd protests. but i think there is a sort of, they represent how a certain kind of progressive ideology on race catches out in practice in views on public policy, in views on sort of how we should deal with racism like kind of corporate anti-racist trainings that you hear so much about come often straight out of robin deangelo's work or other work like hers. a lot of the push is to, you know, sort of do away with or revise education and academic standards, i think, are connected to the argument in ibram kendi's work that, you know, those kind of programs are themselves effectively racist. they're sort of, you know, they aren't just sort of revealing differences, dlairting differences -- they're creating differences and so they need to be done a

the piece that does diversity training, the piece that is reflected in the works of robin d'angelo. they sort of just get on board and enfolded into their hrem processes and they are sort of attempts to build corporate culture. that is what you see all over now. the odd thing is we had to earlier caller asking about the place of evangelical religion in america and the separation of church and state. there is also the question of how business relates to religion. you have various points where, you know, business seems very secular and materialistic and various points where they take on some elements of religious culture. in the 1950s, you had sort of in the cold war era, and inflation of american capitalism and christianity. now you have it on the left of sort of corporate culture, especially silicon valley where, with, you know, semi- religious progressive ideology where, you know, the corporation will stage a land acknowledgment where they talk about how the land is being held from a native american tribe rightht before they, you know, get into their third-quarter strict teacher gr

like kind of corporate anti-racist trainings that you hear so much about come often straight out of robin d'angelo's work or other work like hers. a lot of pushes to do away with or revised gifted academics and standards i think are connected to the argument in kendi's work, that those kind of programs themselves are effectively racist, they're not sort of revealing differences, they're creating differences so they need to be done away with. and all of that is stuff that i fundamentally disagree with and i think is taking a, again, similar to what i said in answer to the last caller, i think there's a generally admirable desire to make america a more equal society and to sort of do more justice to the particularities of the black experience with progressive energy right now, but to the extent the way it catches out is through, you know, corporate anti-racism training or doing away with, you know, gifted education programs, or calculus requirements in california schools, or talking a lot about, like toxic whiteness to third or fourth graders. i'm just really skeptical that that is going to

american corporations would much rather construct diversity programs andhe training along the lines of robin d'angelo suggested white fragility then subjected to bernie's sanders style tax break there is a way for corporations to say we are progressives don't tax us. we have antiracist training programs to divide the left and those corporations working hand in hand to prevent the economic left from raising the corporate income tax rate too high. that is the most cynical reading is not the only thing going on that one of them definitely. >> as a fellow harvard alarm why does he allow himself to appear before yale what is that connection with the school? it was the only studio available in a new haven anytime we could do a video uplink interview is a good day so we have made progress to an actual studio with great audio hopefully next time in person do you have any connection? >> yes the texture would be even more disappointed to hear that not only have i keep my harvard background by appearing before the yale backdrop but even co- taught a couple of classes since returning to new haven. i did