he worked with ted kennedy on a health care issue as well. so overall i don't know that ted kennedy was necessarily one that wanted to reach across the aisle a great deal but when somebody reached across the aisle they accepted that support. so you have to have passers and receivers in football and you have to have the same thing in politics. a person has to be receptive and the other person has to be willing to take the risk of seeing if somebody will join with you. >> you tell a number of stories in the book about the congressional delegation that went abroad to support our troops, to learn, to do oversight, to thank our troops, let them know they're not forgotten. tell us about your first couple of trips and what was the bipartisan experience like those congressional delegations? >> one of the first was not too in a war zone of the middle east but it was down in columbia where the drug war was underway in full swing. and so a group of us went down to columbia and we spent time with the president of columbia as well as with the military who

he worked with ted kennedy on a health care issue as well. so overall i don't know that ted kennedy was necessarily one that wanted to reach across the aisle a great deal but when somebody reached across the aisle they accepted that support. so you have to have passers and receivers in football and you have to have the same thing in politics. a person has to be receptive and the other person has to be willing to take the risk of seeing if somebody will join with you. >> you tell a number of stories in the book about the congressional delegation that went abroad to support our troops, to learn, to do oversight, to thank our troops, let them know they're not forgotten. tell us about your first couple of trips and what was the bipartisan experience like those congressional delegations? >> one of the first was not too in a war zone of the middle east but it was down in columbia where the drug war was underway in full swing. and so a group of us went down to columbia and we spent time with the president of columbia as well as with the military who

elections is directly linked to the integrity of our democratic system of government at the local, state or ted levels. while proper looks protocol is essential, the matter of arizona looks audit is fundamentally a state issue. it is the second time in a week that this committee has raised issues firmly in a state's jurisdiction into the federal you a reason. rather than attacking a private company for fulfilling its contract and conducting an election audit this committee should be directing any objections about the audit to its originators, the arizona state senate. one thing that all voters regardlesser party affiliation can agree upon is we must have election integrity. that is the only way to ensure trust in our elections and they have been righteously elected and confident in our government. i would encourage the majority party to talk a look at the issues that lay squarely within the jurisdiction of the oversight and reform. there's plenty of federal agencies that need oversight and reform. we should be focused on those and the state where they have issues should focus on making sure tha

great justice comes up to thurgood marshall yet he says is it true with the reagan revolution that ted kennedy who had been a champion of civil rights is no longer chair of judiciary committee in its goodman. thurgood marshall was a bear of a man, a giant william brennan is a small frail little man in their in their robes and thurgood marshall puts his arm around brennan and they march back to their chambers, to me it's symbolic of the two great warriors for racial and social injustice itself to their last battle it is also symbolic, the questions that you ask how important politics is whom the courts and the court appointments, we are not a parliamentarian form of government. we have a presidency that is winner take all with incredible consequences that have led to a civil war and also leads to the justices that we have both at the supreme court and in fact at the federal level those lifetime appointments as we said thurgood marshall had said he would not resign from the court and he expected to be at age 100 killed by a jealous husband. and instead at the time when he was very ill hi

i knew that a lot of this was difficult for them and in fact there's a man by the name of ted limestone who is now in his 90s in memphis tennessee. he had been in the woods with the family. i went to interview him and they had long conversations for hours at a time and wrapping up the last conversation his memory was absolutely astounding. he remembers dates, numbers, the distance to speak with him and he said the memories disturbed him and he told me afterwards he hadn't slept for a long time. he knew that it would be upsetting. after all this time it doesn't get easier to share it. >> that's why it's important to have books like this. my father escaped at 36 members couldn't and he never talked about it. his mother didn't talk about it. we didn't get to know about these things. towards the end of his life he would start sending us little bits of memory. short stories or notes about who died and when. we are getting to the point that many of them are going to be passed on and if we don't turn to them, we are not going to have those stories and that's why it's so important that a sensit

see if anybody has written in the words and sometimes people come running out of the gallery and say ted kennedy or somebody. generally nobody came at the speeches work shorter and it was very nice pretty. >> to last things, one included you want to do is present and what was your presidency look like. >> i think more emphasis on a balanced budget and probably a little more emphasis on families and social programs in healthcare. and of course strong defense. i don't like taxes either. i would say a little right of center but then again you gotta deal with congress. >> alive after the people number of people said that you know, he would've spent a lot of time in the help and he would've been sitting down. >> as i said before, bush and clinton both made mistake, great governors but in different place of their. and that's why gerald ford really 70 really knew the congress and got a lot of things done some work to good buddy and friends and sometimes politics you can separate the two and sometimes you can't. >> the last thing unfair question but i have to ask you how would you like to be rem

ted conover's wonderful book in which he actually works as a corrections officer to try to get that. but i decided not to do that as well because i wanted to look at multiple, and i felt i'm going get multiple sites, how am i going to get inside? i ultimately decided i have to find people who work in these worlds. and i think that again drew me as a writer, because i'm most fascinated i think by not just the choices that people make in these difficult situations, but what stories they tell themselves about what they've gone through and what they've experienced. i just -- i feel like as a writer, i'm interested in that and to the extent i can contribute something significant is by touching these really sensitive things like shame and stigma and the psychic toll that i think is a big part of inequality in this country, but is hidden. it's not easy to measure it. you can't sort of quantify it in a chart. but through the stories of these workers and the very personal -- in harriet's case, just to go back to her for one second, she falls into a depression. she loses her hair. she is later

to ted cruz, josh holly, matt gates, taylor greene so let me talk a little bitabout those epistles . >> i just think it's important in life just to call it like you see it. nobody has a perfect view of truth but there is a thing called truth out there. and it has become so elastic in the world of politics of late that it's incredibly disturbing and i think upsetting for a lot of relatives folks out there who are going about their lives and hoping the process is indeed watching out for them. so you take the example of jim jordan. this is a group in the freedom caucus of which i was a part initially who was very much opposed to trunk. but then they completely with the exception of justin amash who's out of congress flipped and became absolutely subservient to him. that's not a little bit of rotation on an issue based on new information or based on input from voters. it is just raw, crass pandering. and i thought it was particularly disturbing with people like meadows or jordan or mulvaney from my homestate . i remember mulvaney talking about love, if it takes shutting down the governme

and they have all of ted pollen bomb's photographsmbom's photographs and picture of him in. front of these minuteman statues. one inth concord. one anothery lexington. so there was another myth that these veterans were immediately exploding, right, this idea that american soldiers are inviolate. they don't -- they can't be injured. and now all of a sudden i had to admit to myself that war is a contest of mutualmu injury, as harvard philosopher alain scarry tells us. so it was a treat and i wanted to write a book about memorialization practices looking at the memorialized landscape through the eyes of vietnam veterans but i didn't want to tell it from 10,000 feet. i wanted to know who that man was. his namean is lenny rotman. i met other veterans and friends and put me in touch with each other and i wanted to tell it in a novelistic way so you are on the ground with them. and we want to walk through those days. maybe we needis to know a littl about your decision to enlist in the marines. your experience briefly in vietnam. i and then your getting involved in this vietnam. vet

administration it's like they are the ones promoting some conspiracy theories, like the birther movement, ted cruz's dad being involved in the jfk assassination, michael flynn and -- and so many others, and that is extremely scary that some of the t followers, becaus trump has a lot of supporters, might actually believe those conspiracy theories because they're i coming from them, fro him. >> i think you're right. you know the comment s ping-pon right? a guy shows up with a rifle. we can talk about it in some detail about imagery and the way symmetry is used there. there is no way around -- one of the things that achieves political takeoff for donald trump was his opposition to obamahe and pushing birtherism, right? he was attached tot that early n as a kind of -- i don't think that's the only reason he won, but it certainly was a reason. i would say part of this is -- we talktu about this in various ways. we see conspiracy theories separate and apart to the way people think about stuff, and trump, to his credit, said, there is a lot of people who think like me, or people who think like this,

are the ones promoting some conspiracy theories like the birther movement, and trump also mentioned ted cruz, his dad being a part of the jfk assassination, and michael flynn and hillary clinton and so many other, and that is extremely scary that some of the followers, because trump has a lot of supporters might believe those conspiracy theory, because they are coming from him. >> and looking at comet ping-pong and the guy shows up with a rifle, and if you want to talk about tate imagery and the way that symbolism is used there. so i think about, and so, there is no way around, and one of the things that achieved political takeoff for donald trump was the opposition to obama, and pushing birtherism, and he has attached to that early on, and not the only reason that he won, but part of it, and part of this is not all, but part that we see the ways that people think about things apart of the whole, and to trump's credit, he said, there are a lot of people who think like me, or think like this, and i can mobilize them, and make them become active political participants where others will sa

and the ruling of the chair which i challenged and ted stevens is behind me. and said oh god. [laughter] and said he can't win what the hell do i have to lose? and we one. [applause] a time things were strained and he got a couple of times back when i was running for reelection and said i like to help you if it will be of any help to you come from a fundraiser for you and he did. never had any fights after that. he was very bright and had very good ideas but one of the things he had done that i thought that was terrific so you learn by getting into fights. sometimes you lose. sometimes you win sometimes you win those who should not have one. [laughter] >> so as governor you have riots and budget shortfalls and more disasters and we can count on but what makes a great governor? >> it means you know you will get a surprise but what i got was unbelievable so then you know how to do things and i said to my director the retirement that we are paying is unsustainable and he said yeah i know. so we have to change that and cut into it and said i have talked to lawyers on both sides an

trump also mentioned ted cruz, his dad being -- >> oh yeah -- [inaudible] >> yeah. the nation. michael flynn -- >> [inaudible] >> that is extremely scary that some of the followers, because trump has a lot of supporters, may actually believe those conspiracy theories. because they are coming from him. >> that's right. the guy that comet ping-pong, actually showed up with a rifle. so you can talk about the imagery and the way the symbolism is used. so there is no way around this -- i mean, one of the things that you can choose, as a political take off for donald trump, was his opposition for obama and his pushing of birtherism. i don't think it's the only reason he won but it is a reason. i would actually say that -- i think that many times, we talk about conspiracies, we see conspiracies as we are, separate, and apart from the way people think about stuff. and i think trump, to his credit, said, there are a lot of people who think like me. there are a lot of people who think like this. and i can motivate them and mobilize them to become active political participants in a way th

they are the ones promoting some conspiracy theories like the birther movement, trump also mentioned ted cruz, his dad being involved in the jfk assassination. michael flynn and the -- >> yes. >> and so many others and that is extremely scary that some of the followers come because trump has a lot of supporters, might actually believe those conspiracy theories because they are coming from them, from him. >> if you look at ping-pong, i guy shows up with a rifle. we can talk about if you want it, the way symbolism issues but -- there's no way around -- one of the things that achieves political take off for donald trump was his opposition to obama and pushing birtherism. he is attached to the early on with the kind of, not the only reason anyone but certain one of the reasons. i would say part of this is i think many times we see conspiracies as we weird sepe apart from the way people think about stuff and and i thinko his credit said there's a lot of people who think like me. or there's a lot of people who think like this and i can motivate them and mobilize them to become active political

[inaudible] and i feed symbols database which provides examples of symbols and ted cruz and code words that are commonly used. i think that's a good place to start educating all of the people that we want to bolster in terms of their knowledge, effectively [inaudible] . >> any other responses? >> if i could jump in, for a moment. we heard from doctor miller-idriss in the previous panel about the idea of inoculation, particularly in the areas of disinformation and propaganda and these platforms allow for extremist to reach each other more easily. this potentially offers off a route to engage with those vulnerable to this behavior. and agencies, whether it's the va or others, should engage in some research around this. there is some innovative work around inoculation in the space. >> thank you. i will now recognize [inaudible] for five minutes. mr. mrvan you are recognized for five minutes. can you hear me? >> i apologize, chairman. doctor beirich, it is always welcome to have an expert before the committee. you know that the va has generally resisted attempts to examine the sources of d

when ted cruz beat him in iowa, said he stole it. i have attended several caucuses in iowa. you had to physically be there, you have to raise your hand for your candidate. trump said it was stolen. then months before the selection , this past election when president biden one -- when president biden won, he said the only way is if he could steal it. that is absolutely shameful. what is more shameful is that he has taken so many good people down with him. history will remember the people like mr. gates and chairman sellers who stood up for democracy. in the face of threats, physical threats to themselves and their families. history will also remember the quibbling's who backed trump and his -- that the election was stolen. is reputational he something that is going to be visited on your family. that you attack this country, you attack a legitimate election in favor of that man. president trump. it is disgraceful. 62 cases were brought in court. none of them. before trump appointed federal judges the trump appointed a lot of state judges that were republicans. they never ever

when ted cruz beat him in iowa, trump said, he stole it. anybody who attended several caucuses in iowa, you got to physically be there. you have to raise your hand for your candidate. trump said, it was stolen. then months before this election, this past election, when president biden won, he said the only way biden can win is if he's going to steal it. that is absolutely shameful. what's more shameful that he has taken so many good people down with him. you know, history will remember, will remember the people like mr. gates and chairman sellers who stood up for democracy. stood up for democracy in the face of threats, physical threats to themselves and their families. history will also remember the quiz ling, the quizling who backed trump and his allegations that the election was stolen. this is not only a day to stand up for what you believe in, it's also reputationally something that will be visited on your family. you attack this country and legitimate election in favor of that man, president trump. it's disgraceful. 62 cases were brou

opinion for the chief justice and walked in and it said, there's a disturbing pattern of violence, well, ted, how do you know that? i got someone who claims it. you would fire a law clerk who did that. you're the attorney general of the united states. this was not a tweet you sent. this is a memo to the federal bureau of investigations saying go investigate parents as domestic terrorists. >> that is not what the memo says at all. >> is it what the letter says? >> that's not what -- >> is it what the letter says? >> i don't care what the letter says. >> you don't care. you said it was the basis of your memo. you testified under oath before the house of representatives the letter was the basis of your memo. now you don't care about the letter? >> the letter and public reports of violence and threats of violence, my memo says nothing about domestic terrorism. nothing about parents committing any such thing. my memo is an attempt to get an assessment of whether there is a problem out there that the federal government needs to -- >> the letter on its face says the acactions of the parents could b