joining us is arizona secretary of state katie hobbs, also a candidate for governor in arizona. madam secretary, first, is there no recourse to regain possession of these ballots so that they're not moved again and potentially tampered with? >> well, the recourse would be between the maricopa county and the senate, who has ordered this audit. but, really, you know, this is exactly why we have been fighting against this from the get-go. these are not experts. they're making this up as they go along. it is not a real audit. they don't know what they're doing and they're not taking their role right now as custodian of these ballots and equipment seriously. that's very clear from everything we've seen. >> and, in fact, your ability to do your job is being hampered by -- i want to read from the npr reporting on this. arizona republicans stripped some election power from democratic secretary of state, arizona republicans have stripped the secretary of state's office, currently held by a democrat, of the right to defend the state's election laws in court or choose not to. the change en

arizona's electoral votes. that's because we've seen a big surge in latino voters, mefrm voters and native american voters for the first time in a long time, not just registering but turning out to vote. they've made it harder for folks because they lost the last election. instead of playing by the rules which they lost by, they're trying to make it harder for communities of color. the decision by the u.s. supreme court was disappointing but not surprising because what we see with the conservative majority in the supreme court is an attempt to slowly make it harder for communities of color, rural americans, rural arizonaans to have access to the ballot box. it is disappointing but not surprising. we have heard next year that the republican colleagues in the legislature will be introducing some of the more onerous restrictions and ways to make it harder for people to access the ballot box. it will be a full-on war not just this year but next year when we go back to legislative session in january. >> you saw demo

let me put up some of the arizona's great reporting from over the holiday. arizona republican chair kelly ward's pressure campaign with hickman, the gop official who refused to pick up trump's call, began in earnest on november 7th as votes were still being counted. ward complained election observers were unable to see. after hickman pressed for specifics ward responded, quote, we need you to stop the counting. days later on november 13th, she wrote, we want you guys to do the right thing, prove to millions of arizona voters that the maricopa vote is legit. don't try to simply tell us that the recorder and elections department say it's fine. prove it to arizona and to america. you have all the power you need to make it happen. the pressure campaign is clearly coming from the ex-president. i think he bragged about it. i think he flew some of the officials from michigan in, and it really does sort of undergird the point that save for a handful of local election officials, a lot of them republicans, we could have had a very different outcome in november. >> yea

then came this challenge to arizona's supreme court. the law requires election officials to throw away ballots cast at the wrong precinct. you have two voting areas, two places to vote, you go to the wrong one, vote there, woops, it gets thrown out. it makes it a crime for anyone to collect and deliver ballots to polling places other than family members. we know this had a disparate impact. they found tossing ballots cast in the wrong precinct has the effect of undercounting minority votes by a factor of 2 to 1. allowing someone else to drop off a ballot is particularly important for indigenous communities in arizona. today the supreme court's conservative majority said all of that stuff is fine. i could give you the legal reasoning but here's the real reasoning. they and all other parts of the right are working in tandem against america's multi-racial democracy. now donald trump's version of that is more vulgar, cringe inducing whipping up a mob to go beat up cops and chant hang mike pence and storm the capitol and go marauding to find

jackson arrested in arizona appeared for arraignment today. the feds say they saw him amongst the proud boys. he, they say, tried to argue it was antifa and blm, that denialism continues to this day. >> clint, we talked at the top of the show about vaccine hesitancy and what the message is, who can be the messenger. when it comes to being honest about what happened on january 6th, why it happened, is there someone who can be the messenger that actually breaks through to these people if they were to come to reality themselves? >> i think it mostly comes interest capitol hill. it's got to be republican congressmen that are honest with the american people about the damage done to our democracy on january 6th. mike pence, the former vice president, he alone should be a messenger out there saying, hey look, these people were trying to attack me. they interrupted the democratic process. they did not allow for the peaceful transfer of power. in many of these jurisdictions, arizona, michigan, were these notions of a recount constantly being pushed for

most notably, the preposterous brought it going on in arizona. all of that propaganda has had the intended effect on his target populous. 86% of republicans see by mail increases voter fraud. 79% are not confident in the national vote count. perhaps most alarming is the number at the bottom. 46% of republicans that think state legislatures should override their states popular vote. today, we have an actual example in the news of a colossal election administration screw up in the bluest of blue areas. in the democratic primary in the very democratic city of new york city, involving the mayoral race. you should know, the board of elections in new york city which oversees elections, is one of the most notoriously incompetent election administration units in the country. in 2013, the city's department of investigation released a 72-page report on the board of elections detailing incompetence and misconduct. in 2016, in the midst of the democratic presidential primary between hillary clinton and bernie sanders, a member of the board mistakenly removed

you see it in wisconsin, you see the arizona fraud being used as a model. but i have to say and i understand -- i take yamiche's point all the things the white house has to juggle today but a lack of real focus and urgency on the part of the democrats to deal with this including the failure to focus on the other aspect of this not just the access to the ballot box but nullifications of elections. the power of state legislatures to overturn the election. the electoral vote counting act that might allow a republican congress to set aside the winner of an actual election. they seem to go through the motions and wave their hands at it. but it does feel like, again, going through the motions as opposed to a real sense of urgency, a full-court press would involve compromised legislation, more aggressive action by the department of justice, and a much more aggressive approach by the white house including the president and the vice president and, quite frankly, i know we're supposed to think they're addressing it today, but i actually think what you just played hig

the expected something like what we saw in the case in arizona. first, your reaction to the actual holding here by the court. >> i would be lying if i said that i was surprised by the outcome. i will say however i was surprised by the audacity. i think justice kagan got it right when she said that the majority re-wrote a statute that has been a monument to american greatness. i was listening to your opening chris, you really cannot begin to talk about this country as a true democracy until 1965. true democracies do not keep citizens, eligible citizens, from participating in a political process. until the voting rights act is passed in 1965 are not even a true democracy, that makes us 56 years old as a democracy. we have seen the steady dismantling by the supreme court of the voting rights act. now the dismantling of section two, when i say the audacity i mean the actual rewriting of the history and of the standards used in these cases for decades. i began my career in 1988 as a voting rights lawyer and the first thing i was given was the senate re

from arizona to missouri to nebraska to georgia. i mean we could tell -- to texas. we see this happening. it is a concerted effort. it is an all-out effort on the part of the republican party. i think what you have been saying over the course of these many weeks, nikole, you have been sounding the alarm, you have been trying to tell folk that we are in serious danger, that democracy is in serious danger. i think it is time for president biden to go on the offensive. i think he needs to give a speech about not the state of the union but the state of american democracy from the oval office, to set the terms of the debate, to bring the fight to these people, because the stakes are that high. we keep seeing democrats on their heels while republicans are attacking at every front, on every front. it seems to me, given what we have described, what you have described, what we know, democrats have to go aggressive, and if they don't we need to start asking questions why. >> okay. i want to throw out everything i was going to ask you guys. let's talk about this. what does tha

this was a week ago today in phoenix, arizona. this is thursday last week, it was 112 degrees in phoenix that day. ♪ can't take it no more ♪ ♪ we're fired up ♪ ♪ can't take it no more ♪ ♪ we're fired up ♪

in arizona if you can't win the vote then you try and change it. you see this in texas and arizona, what do we see, places where the gop just doesn't have good ideas and they can't win. when you can't win you try and change the story. the problem is when you change the story, even when people who know the story is a lie, try and change the story, someone believes it. someone down the road is committed to that cause and every single time they do this there will be someone that believes the election was stolen and you will see mobilizations to violence. if you look in the last three to four days the number of arrests around the country of people that want to strike political targets that are talking about turning over the election, we have new revelations about that, another out in san francisco talking about explosives and weapons. each one of these lies powers a conspiracy. the longer it lives, is perpetuated and the more political leaders speak to the lie the more you will see people mobilize to violence over time. ultimately what i never hear fro

in arizona, wisconsin, in georgia it was recounted three times. it's clear. for those who challenge the results and question the integrity of the election, no other election has ever been held under such scrutiny and such high standards. the big lie is just that, a big lie. >> president biden also delivered a forceful appeal to congress to pass the john lewis voting rights act and hr-1, the for the people act, but also outlined measures that he's taking, that his office is undertaking in tandem, like a push to educate voters as well as a rebuke of the republicans at all levels of government leading the effort to strip mostly democratic, mostly minority voters of their access to the ballot box piece by piece. watch. >> we're going to face another test in 2022. a new wage of unprecedented voter suppression and raw and sustained election subversion. we have to prepare now. as i said time and again, no matter what, you can never stop the american people from voting. they will decide. and the power must always be in the people. that's why just like we did in 2020,

the arizona audit has been going on for 68 days. what are they doing? they would have known by now if something was amiss. at the end of the day, it c it down to the core by which we elect our leaders. it's precisely the fight that republicans are so dead set against, it's why it's so central to what this moment is for the democratic party and for our democracy as a whole. congressman clyburn, a democrat from south carolina, is the house majority whip. the senate needs to get rid of the filibuster, to pass the sweeping votes rights bill. he joins me now. where are things to your mind on this core question before congress about national democratic access and democratic standards? >> thank you very much for having me, chris. i think we're at a crossroads on that. i have been arguing for some time that our democracy is at peril. all you got to do is look at the vote today, only two republicans voted to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6 and why it happened. only two republicans. that just cannot be. we need to know why there was this insurrect

justice alito is frightening, not only for the results of the particular things that they upheld in arizona, those two provisions but the language that is in that majority opinion is truly frightening. and i am really concerned about what we see coming out of our supreme court. it's one of the reasons why i think democrats, progressives, people who care about this country have to focus on state and local elections. these legislatures are the ones that are producing these laws at the supreme court is upholding, not only with elections, reproductive rights, and a whole range of other things. we need to be focused on state and local elections. we need to be involved in making sure that we use the state courts whenever we can as opposed to the federal ones. i don't think that, you know, when it comes to election reform that we're going to find a friend or friends on the united states supreme court. they are idealogically against voter protection. >> former attorney general eric holder, thank you so much for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >>> still to come,

not only that, you are going to lose places like georgia and arizona that were hard, hard fought and barely won. >> final question for you on some late-breaking news today. a federal district judge in your state of texas, appointee of george w. bush, has essentially ruled that the daca protections issued by the obama administration, all the way back i believe in 2012, are essentially unlawful. he has not suspended daca per se, but he has issued, i understand, an injunction for any further applications. this is for people who are brought to the united states as children, as minors, who can apply for sort of protected status. it is not full citizenship, but it does give them a sort of path to citizenship. i have to imagine it is brutal for all of the folks subject to this because it just creates more tension, pressure and uncertainty. your reaction to that ruling? >> it is a gut punch. it just creates that uncertainty, that feeling in the stomach for so many families who have somebody on daca. as you said, it doesn't affect people currently on daca but it does put a pause on new applic

nevada, arizona, florida, georgia, tennessee, michigan, iowa, oklahoma. some of these deep red states where there were no questions of fraud but they're just going along to get along. on this question of shaking up the debate, letters from companies after baseball moved the all-star game, there wasn't much noise coming from companies, but i wonder if you think there's something shifting underneath this debate, eugene? >> i think there is. there is a through line and everyone is so shocked by what happened on january 6th and they're looking in washington that the states took the big lie and these lawmakers started making laws because of that. you look in texas, texas people had no complaints about what actually happened in texas, how the election was actually run. georgia, the same thing. michigan, the same thing. the people who do the work. the secretaries of state, republican and democrat, have had no issues saying this was an election that was free and fair and the president in office right now is the rightful winner of that election. i think what you'r

and this thing that's going on in arizona, it is not an audit. it is really unfair to auditors everywhere to call it an audit. a stupid political theater game. it's a fairy tale. i wish somebody would play that tape of trump losing it, looney tunes, and make the republican caucus and the senate watch it with a camera on them. and then put a microphone in front of their mouths, what do you think? is this your guy is this the guy? is this the guy you're losing it over? i mean, it's just amazing to me these people i know well, that are smart, intelligent, many of them have a kind heart even though i disagree with them on a lot of stuff, that they are silently watching this guy take them down crazy lane. it's unbelievable. >> charlie is back. i think we can answer that question for claire because we saw their faces, and i think she's probably talking about members who became subservient to trumpism, who used to seem to believe in things, maybe people like rob portman or blunt who seem to be republicans first. we saw their faces when he talked about g

now, arizona of course is the one state that's actually tried to prove donald trump's false and ridiculous claims. that's in the audit of maricopa county's 2. 1 million ballots. which has, not surprisingly, been an absolute clown show. it's still going on apparently. get this, there was one at least nominally legitimate face to that recount which was former arizona secretary ken bennett republican who said today he's been shut out of the audit as a third count of the ballots total is still ongoing. they're just counting and counting because they're trying to reach the conclusion they want obviously. the ballots themselves, by the way, just by the way almost got rained on the other day when the roof of the building that the audit is taking place started leaking. workers scrambled i guess to cover boxes of ballots with tarps to protect them. i don't know, it seems like a pretty professional operation. it's the level of competency would expect from a donald trump projects and the level of confidence and good faith we've come to expect from the republican party at large. but, as oafish as it a

that signal was sent with that arizona decision, and we could not sit by. we've been asking for a meeting once that decision dropped. marc morial and i reached out and said we need to meet now because this has escalated to where the damage can be generational. >> rev, the damage being generational is what is already in motion from republicans. i feel like mel gibson in "conspiracy theory" in saying this all the time. but republicans are so far ahead, that now the only option this white house and democrats in congress have is to come in and try to minimize the damage. they won't be able to undo all of it. i wonder if you'd like to see a more offensive posture, a public relations campaign to build support for filibuster reform, for stuff predicated on the big lie as the republican lieutenant governor of georgia said. state legislative pushes to push back around the corners of the most egregious aspects of these laws. federal legislation that doesn't rest until it passes. it feels like republicans have moved with a speed and an urgency. and i said this in the

now, arizona, of course, is the one state that has actually tried to prove donald trump's false and ridiculous claims. that's in the audit of maricopa county's 2.1 million ballots, which has, not surprisingly, been just an absolute clownshow. i mean, it's still going on, apparently. get this. there was a -- there -- there was one at least nominally legitimate face of that recount who is former arizona secretary of state, ken bennett. who said today he's been shut out of the audit. they are just counting and counting because they are trying to reach the conclusion they want, obviously. the ballots, themselves, by the way, just, oh, by the way, almost got rained on the other day when the roof of the building where the audit is taking place started leaking. workers scrambled, i guess, to cover boxes of ballots with tarps to protect them. all in all, seems like a pretty professional operation. it's the level of competence you would expect from a donald-trump project and the level of confidence and good faith we have come to expect from the republican party, writ large. but as ofish as it all is, i

the conservative majority on the supreme court up holding two voting restrictions in the state of arizona, one that requires officials to toss out ballots cast in the wrong precinct and another that makes it a crime for most people to collect ballots for delivery to polling precincts, a practice that has been a target of the former president and his allies peddling the big lie. >>> "the new york times" reporting on the wider implications of the decision says this. quote, the larger message of the ruling was that the voting rights act of 1965, hobbled after the supreme court in 2013 effectively struck down a central provision, retains only limited power to combat voting restrictions. in a scathing dissent, justice elena kagan writes, quote, if a single statute represents the best of america, it is the voting rights act. it marries two great i deals, democracy and racial equality. and it dedicates our country to keerg them out. if a single statute reminds us of the worst in america, it is the voting rights act because it was and remains so necessary. what is tragic here is that the court ha

passed restrictive laws, arkansas and montana passed four such laws each and arizona passed three. this wave of restricts on voting, the most aggressive we have seen in more than a decade of tracking state voting laws, is in large part motivated by false and often misinformation about voting fraud. the most aggressive we have seen in a decade. this is the name of the game in gop politics right now, isn't it? this is their bread and butter and a priority in how they go about playing the game. >> look, if you are main ort party, a party that hasn't won the presidential election, hasn't won a majority vote in seven of the last eight presidential elections, is only able to exercise power because of the counter-majority aspects of our system, does not have an agenda intended to appeal to the majority of americans and is, in fact, extremely threatened by demographic change and extremely threatened by sort of, you know, kind of who the majority in this country increasingly is, your only hope of maintaining power -- well, i guess you have two things. you can moderate your agenda. you can t

emulate not only more restrictive voting rights bills but also the ridiculous audit that's going on in arizona. >> absolutely, ali. i know some people have tried to laugh this off and say, well, we have a democratic governor. he can veto some of the worst things and so it's a joke. it's not a joke. it's not a joke. and let's be very clear about something. they are not trying to stop everybody from voting. they're trying to stop certain people from voting. look at me. look at me for a second. they are trying to keep folks who look like me, who come from working backgrounds like me, who are young, like me. these are the people they're trying to keep from the ballot box. that is why i take this so damn personally. they understand that when young people come out to vote, when black people come out to vote, when marginalized people get to vote, we get things like sending joe biden to the white house, like historic victories in georgia to send two democratic senators to the united states senate. folks are getting $300 in their bank accounts right now because young people, black people, brown people,

you look at these attacks on voting rights, this audit in arizona. are these institutions that are actually holding strong? >> you know, that is such a smart point. and i think what the final year of the trump presidency revealed for all of us is just how fragile these institutions are in this country. you know, milley is right that democracy held through january 20th. biden was sworn in as president because he was the victor in the election. that was the will of the american people. but the threat has not been extinguished. in fact you have hundreds -- more than hundreds, republican members of congress who opposed certifying the election results. you have all of this controversy surrounding a commission to investigate the january 6th insurrection and you have in donald trump, former president trump, the leader, the current leader of the republican party who's toying with the idea of running for president again. if the primaries were held tomorrow, he would almost certainly be the republican nominee for president in 2024. and so that threat is very m

three of the five members that he chose voted to overturn the election results in pennsylvania and arizona, including congressman jim jordan of ohio. who, according to a new book by "washington post" reporters, carol leonnig, and philip rucker, was called out by a potential committee colleague. congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming as the guy who did this. the guy responsible for the january-6th attack on the capitol. and now, that guy is going to possibly sit on the committee to investigate what happened. these are reportedly the five that mccarthy has chosen. there are a couple things we do not know. when speaker of the house nancy pelosi first announced this select committee, one of the things she said was that she would have veto power over the appointments. so right now, it's unclear whether or not she will give these members the okay. i mean, people who actively voted against democracy, on the day of the capitol riot. something to watch. we will talk more about that with congressman james clyburn just a little bit later in the show. but generally, if you feel a sense of dÉjÀ vu as yo

pennsylvanian arizona, including congressman jim jordan of ohio. according to a new book by washington post reporter's, was called out by a potential committee colic. as the guy who did this. the guy responsible for the january 6th attack on the capitol, and now that guy is going to possibly sit on the committee to investigate what happened. these are reportedly the five that mccarthy is chosen. there are a couple things we do not know when. speaker of the house nancy pelosi first announced this select committee, one of the things she said was that she would have veto power over the appointments. so right now it's unclear whether or not she will use or give these members the okay. people who actively voted against democracy and the day of the capitol riot. that's something to watch. we'll talk more about that with congress and james clyburn just a little bit later in the show. generally if you feel a sense of dÉjÀ vu, as you survey the landscape of american democracy, the politics in this moment, you are not alone. i feel it to. we have very much

billion, with a "b," dollars to build 135 miles' worth of federal wall sections near yuma and nogales in arizona and in texas. at the time we pointed out the program one of the contracts raised questions because as "the washington post" reported trump repeatedly pushed for fisher to get a wall-building contract, urging officials with the army corps of engineers to pick the firm only to be told that fisher's bid did not meet standards. trump then kept pushing until the company was added to a pool of competitors, and lo and behold finally awarded the massive multi-billion dollar contracts. now, unfortunately for tommy fisher, one of the first things joe biden did as president was halt all construction of walls at the borden, basically cancelling out that mega wall contract. so now tommy fisher is looking for someone to purchase, to buy his three-mile $30 million stretch of texas border wall where a hurricane caused significant erosion of the banks, up to and under the concrete foundation. so not in 100% shape, just fyi. it is a little dinged up, but if you got a cool $30 million, looking for a thr

from an attorney, an attorney with the status update from his ongoing pursuit of fraud allegations in arizona. the ex-president and right-wing cable news as a clear and present danger is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. nbc washington investigative reporter scott mcfarlane is here, an msnbc contributor, and sam, white house editor for politico and an msnbc contributor. scott, i have to give you credit for flagging most of these headlines we're starting with for me. why don't you take me through, first, this new video and, second, this finding that because of the lies that the ex-president continues to tell and because of the way they're amplified on right-wing media it is not safe for the community and the document says or democracy itself to have the defendants and the insurrection investigation roaming around unsurveilled. >> nicolle, good afternoon. let's begin with the video. it's so visceral. it's released under court order by the u.s. justice department. body worn camera footage, more from police officers who are not only on the front lines that

and just to button up your point, david jolly, it will be easier for him the next time in georgia, in arizona, and in every other battleground state, frankly, in every state. 48 states are looking at 389 voter suppression laws and laws that would change the administrators of our election. that should scare everybody. sam stein, i'm sorry i called you eli. always say something. thank you so much to both of you for joining us. when we come back, joe manchin gave texas democrats some face time. what both sides say is an effort to protect voting rights. did they get anywhere? just how they're going to do that next. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. ♪ usaa ♪ ♪ ♪ when tec