why isn't the media interested in the lois lerner? >> well, i think as long as she continues to plead the fifth. they don't really see new news being out there. i think people have bought in a little bit to the whole idea there is a phony scandal. if it's a phony scandal why won't she testify? the question is why republicans might want to consider giving her immunity so that they can get the full story out there. if they're not getting anything right now they might want to consider that. >> what happened yesterday is you had congressman issa very frustrated and upset that he actually went on "fox news sunday" and broke some news. she would not plead the fifth she would answer questions and ended up pleading the fifth anyway. frustrated. whether or not he had the right to do that that distracted things and turned congressman cummings into a victim and it would have been much better off to let him spout off, whatever. he could have made himself look like a fool. >> i was stunned with the emails they did present her with. one was dated o

last summer he could have told them to hold lois lerner in contempt. weeks later, she resigned and is collecting her taxpayer funded pension. this is all messed up. >>> still ahead, new developments in ukraine. shep smith is there. >>> also, is the white house hiding something from you? how much do they really know about secretary sebelius and her fund-raisi fund-raising? to stay at rest... to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mcelebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for ny with arthritis pain d inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function celeex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen naproxen and meloxicam have the same ca

lois lerner pleads the fifth. hold her in contempt. second steps, offer her full immunicipality for testimony and two things can happen. if she takes full immunity and decides to offer testimony, we have an opportunity to find out what happened and the next step of that is darril issa to go after theires for codifying bad behavior that shpt happen against left or right. if she doesn't take full immunity, can the administration and erebbing holder and all of the players protect her, or do we not have enough on her. americans are all over this country are sick of government, back to kisterns point that produces little result or solution and we the people need to threaten them in the ballot box. >> how does that translate to the ballot box? do democrats vote or not vote? >> i think it affects potting ways. it depresses the vote a bit. and people lose hope that things are different. and things like the irs situation, along with a lot of other issues that happen could also mobilize people who are very frustrated with the government and want

this was going to be the opportunity that lois lerner pulled. this was an old game, they grandstanded and got headlines. by god, they succeeded. cbs did a story this morning, no mention, no discussion -- no serious discussion about her but they talked about elijah cummings. abc did nothing at all. remember i told you last week that they had done 22 seconds since june of 2013. well, that 22 second record continues. it has been 99 days since they even mentioned the irs scandal. but the best one was nbc news. i'm going to read you how they framed their news last night. in washington today, a public and startling example of the kind of behavior congress has become known for and congress has become gridlocked over. in other words, megyn, the story last night was not lois lerner. it was congress. >> right. you know, in their defense, you know, that exchange between issa and cummings was, it was a tv moment. so we as tv people we see a moment like that, we put it on tv and discuss it. so i see why they talked about that. but to ignore the substance of

>> of lois lerner e-mails? >> as i said in january we will continue because we party started the process and its import to get the e-mails in the areas i talked about them will find out about january and will continue to work as the order and priority and what is noted, let you know how many e-mails there are in the process will be. are delighted to do that. >> i don't buy that personally. i've heard from a number people talk about constituents being concerned and i assume and i believe those are accurate representations. whether they represent the entire public to me is that important. every individual member in every organization in the country deserves to feel comfortable to be treated fairly by the irs. my view is whether it be part of it is not the question. everyone feels confident comfortable dealing with the irs. >> when i go home as other members have stated including mr. lynch, what i hear is there is a deficit of trust. people feel they are being targeted not only for the tax-exempt organization, but

because that will either exonerate or convict, essentially, lois lerner. >> mr. cummings is there with the president on not a sminlion of evidence. as a matter of fact, our evidence leads to lois lerner. and that's why we'd hoped to hear from her. if the ranking member had wanted to make a motion before i had adjourned i would have accepted. i adjourned. he then said he had a question. what you played there was after an adjournment. he then perked up and said i want to ask a question. i said what is your question. and then that exchange occurred because he didn't have a question. he was endlessly slandering the efforts of the committee. but having said that, we want to get to the truth. if the attorney had a proffer, which, as you know, would be tell us, don't tell us your client's innocent, tell us what we need to know. and he's never offered to do that. we've offered with his attorney, to be quite frank, his attorney in writing had supported the idea that she would testify under certain conditions. as we began rolling out an a little bit about what we intended

you saw lois lerner. she walked in this morning. there was hope she would answer the questions that exist out there, like what did she know and when did she know it. what do you read, what do you pray for? the president was initially very uncomfortable what he learned that happened at the irs and said he wanted to get to the bottom of this. e lielijah cummings is speaking. up know we are up against a break. >> we interviewed 38irs employees. hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from irs have been reviewed. $14 million plus and counting in man hours have bee been expended with regard to this investigation into the irs, and still there has not been any evidence whatsoever that there was political motivation in regard to this targeting. in regard to these efforts. martha: i'm trying to give equal time to both of these gentlemen. we'll be back with more. ok, here's the way the system works. let's say you pay your guy around 2 percent to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 rcent every year. does that make a

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editorial report" tempers flare on capitol hill as lois lerner declines to answer questions in congress. why is she talking to the justice department instead? >> vulnerable democrats breathe a sigh of relief as the administration announces yet another obamacare delay. if you thought that was the only trick up the president's sleeve, wait till you see his budget. >>> welcome to the "journal editorial report," i'm stewart varny in for paul gigot. fireworks on capitol hill as lois lerner once again refused to answer questions at a house oversight and government reform committee hearing. committee chair darrell issa says contempt charges could come as early as next week. some democrats are crying foul, with ranking member elijah cummings calling the house's investigation into the targeting of tea party groups one-sided and unamerican. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. we have members over here each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. it is absolutely something wrong with that and there is absolutel

one is lois lerner is at the center of this. she had hands on involvement in terms of the targeting of conservative groups. that's one of the things we know, essentially that she's the central person behind much of this. it's troubling. the american people want to get to the bottom of it. >> what do the e-mails prove? keep in mind, as i know the viewers remember, she has taken the fifth countless times. we haven't heard from her other than when she took the fifth the first time, she said she had done nothing wrong. what are we to learn from the e-mails? >> you are right. she said originally she has done nothing wrong. in these e-mails, we know there were rules she violated so perhaps she misled congress even in that limited testimony she gave before pleading the fifth. also, it talks about political targeting. the context of the e-mails, talks about how effective the conservative groups were in their messaging and how she needed to address that. >> so, do you believe after looking at this report, then, that this whole situation

and number two, forget lois lerner. this issue is much bigger than lois lerner. this is what pat touched on. this is the corruption of the irs for political purposes, when nixon mused about using the irs to go after his enemies, they had an article of impeachment in the house judiciary committee. >> maybe there was more transparency then. just to clarify, her attorney said she will testify, but she will show up this week, ask for a week delay. if she gets it, she may testify. >> but you know, she is being used as a political pawn in a bigger game, which plays into what pat and john are talking about. basically, the corruption of our entire federal government, the politicization of the investigatory process. i don't believe she's believed she's waived her fifth amendment right, whether or not, to be fair to you, jamie, she has done it. more political circus, more political theater. we're not going to learn anything from her, i don't believe, except our government is irretrievably and irrevocably broken. >> at the same time, the irs is planning bigger attacks becau

. >> once again, lois lerner takes the fifth in the irs investigation. but members of congress certainly weren't silent. >> we have members over here who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. >> tonight we'll have the inside story about an alleged scandal that is still chaotic. ♪ macho, macho man ♪ i've got to be a macho man >>> the russian leader putin continues to thumb his nose at the world. and now some obama supporters are using putin against republicans. we'll tell you what that's all about. and dennis miller will weigh in. >>> please welcome the wickedly talented one and only adele dazim. >> huh? also tonight what the heck was john travolta doing at the academy awards? it was beyond bizarre. we will explain it. caution. you are about to enter the no-spin zone. the "factor" begins right now. >>> hi. i'm bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us tonight. the irs investigation goes nowhere again. that is the subject of this evening's "talking points memo." to bring you up to date, there are charges the internal rev

. >> tempers fly as disgraced irs employee lois lerner once again pleads the fifth. and juan williams coming up next. and another big edition of "ask sean" that and much more as "hannity" continues. dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. with the quicksilver cash back card from capital one, it means unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. it doesn't mean, "everything.. as long as you buy it at theas station." it doesn't mean, "everything... unl you hit your cash back limit." it means earn 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every place, every occasion, all over creation. that's what everything should mean. so consider... what's in your wallet? >>> welcome back to "hannity," tempers were flaring at a house oversight committee hearing after lois lerner declined to testify again. watch this? >> my c

he's calling back former irs official lois lerner who has refused to testify. a "fox news sunday" exclusive. and president obama prepares to unveil his new budget with defense cuts and no entitlement reforms. >> it makes no effort to address the drivers of our debt and deficit. >> we'll sit down with leaders of the congressional budget the committee, senator rob portman and congressman chris van hollen. plus arizona governor jan brewer vetoes a bill that would protect religious freedom over gay rights. but other states may take up similar measures. our sunday panel weighs in. and our power players of the week. they are making the please don't touch signs at museums a past. all right now on fox "fox news sunda sunday". hello again from fox news in washington. we begin with a fast moving developments in ukraine. president obama spoke with russian president putin and said the u.s. will suspend planning for the g-8 summit in sochi this summer. putin got approval from the russian parliament to send troops into ukraine. and the russians have seized control of the cri

you take a look at lois lerner's history. she was if the fac, losing the case -- >> she's a big liberal. you're quite right. she's a big liberal. she runs this tax exempt division and she doesn't like it one bit that she has to grant the legal status to these tea party groups. she wants citizens united repealed. she wants congress to vote. she wants the fec to give her help. here's the deal, though. i believe, okay, i believe political strategy here, lois lerner as the head of this in the irs, basically shut down the tea groups, the tea party groups during the 2012 election. that was her goal. >> without question. >> and unfortunately, she succeeded. now here's the thing, tony. here's the bullish side of me. this is kudlow the optimist. now the tea party groups are mostly getting certified, okay? finally. and they are going to be back with a vengeance this november. so lerner ultimately is going to fail. that's my take. >> you can talk about the fact that reports of the tea party's death has been greatly exaggerated all to th

it is not about defending lois lerner. this is about making sure that we are told the constitution of the united states of america -- uphold the constitution of america. people have rights thaupd constitution. chairman issa has that right. i have rights. every single citizen in our country has rights. that's what we have been trying to do. period. >> just one more time to reiterate, have you as a ranking member on the house oversight committee seen any evidence that the white house had any contact with lois lerner before the irs began scrutinizing 501-c groups? >> absolutely not. chairman issa knows that. he has called 38 witnesses and interviewed. every one of those witnesses has made it clear the white house was not involved in this and that there is month political motivation. >> all right. thank you, congressman cummings. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> all right. john boehner said again and again he wants immigration reform. but it is not hard to read between the lines and see that's not the case. why this is setting

we want just lois lerner's e-mails. that's it. they don't have to go back to the beginning of time, just this area where targeting was going on, i think that could lead to other things, but one step at a time. when they put out blanket requests for documents that go back to the time christ walks this earth, i am joking, but they're losing their argument. i think that that is what's most important. get those e-mails. >> i agree with that, neil. and we said that back to jim jordan, and some of the people who have been helping us with this. you know, she definitely is the key. i did hear some of the testimony today, and i think i saw a congressman from the committee on fox saying they have kind of narrowed it down at the end of the hearing to let the new head of the irs know, we want you to focus on these things. neil, i don't know. when he was talking about how long it's going to take, i think there's a correlation here, neil, between how long it took for them to process our 501 c 4 applications and how long it's going to take to ge

. >> former irs official lois lerner may have taken the fifth. are newly released e-mails changing the game entirely? >> and new 911 calls and capturing the terrifying moments and a neighborhood forever. >> 911, where is your emergency. >> there is a fire. >> workers are screaming. >> my roof caved in and the whole house shook. it is brought down. and the ceiling is all hanging. i don't know what to do. >>> listen to the newly released 911 calls after a deadly gas explosion one week ago and included a disabled woman who needed help getting out of her home. >> calm down and take a deep breathe with me. just calm down, please. i will have them come out there. >> one person died in the explosion and several more were hurt and 50 homes were damaged. the contractor was doing electrical work and the crew struck a gas line. >> my counsel advised me i have not waived my constitutional rights under the fifth amendment and on his advice i will decloin to answer questions on the subject hearing. >> you will not tell us who will fix the problem. >> on advice

lois lerner plead the fifth. republican chairman darrell issa adjourned the hearing, democrat elijah cummings explode in a anger, mike turner was there, he joins us here. the budget is not boring, it is a different plan to win this november. we have gone through it for you. we are shocked at what is in it. you think you have to responsibilities to spend your money? we are on that too. dr. keith ablow on teenagers suing their parents. moments from now the facebook sleuth who said some social media appetizers are wasting your money. just drama, passion, here we go. president obama's budget proposal includes a proposal to expand the earned income tax credit. that is a program that gives a check to low-income earners every year. the new proposal is 7.7 million workers get a larger payment and 5.8 million newly eligible for that check once a year. the program is right for corruption, the irs over paid $15 billion through the earned income tax credit in 2012. liz macdonald, more on this. is a corrupt program. liz: tax

they are grilling the irs commissioner former lois lerner's involvement on the targeting of groups. lerner not at the hearing today. she faces possible contempt of congress charges after pleading the fifth again at a hearing on march 5th. now we're hearing her e-mails may not be released for weeks. maybe years. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel live on capitol hill for us. mike, fireworks

i think the reality is this is pointing much higher up the chain than lois lerner. she either should get immunity to testify or be held in contempt. >> that's my question. is she holding out for immunity. >> i think so. if i was her lawyer, i would be trying to get immunity, too. she made some statements that were incriminated. she planted a question so she could take the report, independent investigators report within treasury. you can't forget that fact. >> so many unanswered questions. >> been going since the beginning. i think she wants immunity. the question is whether they will give it. >> amazing developments. thanks so much, jay. >>> massive fire engulfing a three-story apartment building. crass particular steps to get out alive. ukraine, what russia has over europe that may cause leaders to shy away from supporting any u.s. sanctions. >>> is global warming biting into a chipotle staple? why the chain might have to pull guacamole from the menu. are you kidding me? that brings us to the favorite question. if your favorite restaurant quits serving guacamole, w

republicans demanding the irs turn over emails from lois lerner and

we have been talking about lois lerner. i was looking at some of the e-mails and testimony of irs officials which you have access which indicates this isn't just a caning rue investigation there is meat to the allegations. what can you tell us? >> it starts with them criticizing the court decision in the state of the union. as you remember it is unusually for a president to criticize supreme court judges to their faces which is what he did. that signal to the irs and others it's open season on citizens united. there are e-mails to lois lerner where she says perhaps the fcc federal election commission will save the day. save the day fob whom. there are e-mails she got about democrats maybe losing the senate. her response was that would be worse than the republican president. there are e-mails where she said we don't need that project to appear per se political. she e-mails the coke brothers name but she says what was she talking about. >> that is exactly what this is about. she is a card carrying democrat she did not want th

darrell issa wants to have the this contempt vote regarding lois lerner. what's interesting is after talking with folks on the committee, lois lerner, what happens given more time, perhaps a week, was essentially to testify if granted immunity and if darrell issa does, in fact, believe this is a wide-scale fraudulent operation being run at the irs directly tied to the white house going after these republican-leaning groups, then why not offer someone like lois lerner, who's a low-level employee, this immunity and go all the way to the white house and get them? but the fact of the matter is this has taken on a very political tone, it's something that feeds the base, the red meat that they have like sod much, and they're going to move forward on this contempt vote more likely than not, possibly as early as two weeks. and boehner, interestingly enough, alex, he sort of put the brakes on this when darrell issa had that exchange with elijah cummings a few weeks back, realizing the optics were not so good. since that cooled down a bit, the optics are better and

lois lerner should be held in contempt. and if john as he testified today and takes two or three years to get us the e-mails, he should be held in contempt too. that is just unbelievable that he would say it's going to take that long when we asked for these documents when may of last year. we subpoenaed them in august and sent a second subpoena last month. >> it's the same old thing, when the irs wants documents from the average citizen, you can't turn around and say it's going to take me several years, i'm very busy. congressman jordan, good to see you. >>> new developments in the custody fight of a teenager in massachusetts. for the first time, the judge in the case weighs in giving new details about justina pelletier is not back with her family and in a sudden reversal is not going back any time soon. plus hannity at the top of the hour. >> they didn't notice that the first thing that happened in the 20th century was an act of war against the united states in downtown new york and the pentagon. they really think war is o

lois lerner being worried about the koch brothers. and lois lerner cutting out cincinnati, at the irs, oh, cincinnati was rogue, they acted on their own, no, this was a striblgtly washington, d.c., operation. the hysteria by representative c cummings. >> do you think it was theater? >> looking, he gave chairman issa -- i think he gave him an excuse to crying. let's let him then respond to this memo. instead of cut the mike, i'm sorry, and make this now the story that his mike was cut instead of the smoking gun proof that we have been looking for that surfaced today. >> it speaks to her knowledge and awareness, the memo, i'm not convinced perhaps as you, that it does represent a smoking gun in terms of demonstrating her guilt, but there's no question it should be explored and it is a significant move forward. but, on that issue, where does this investigation go from here? the attorney general of the united states has been held in contempt by congress. there are six major investigations going on by the issa committee. where are we heade

they have to be produced. >> why not give lois lerner immunity? >> we don't know what she wants immunity from. she says she's done nothing wrong. why should we have to negotiate this? she goes out and tries to plead the fifth. she leaks the information, at the center of the information, why should we grant her immunity, there's no reason to do that. she may have done something terribly wrong. she may have done nothing wrong. come talk to congress about it. >> give me a time line, congressman. i only have a couple of seconds. give me a time line. when might this contempt happen? >> the subpoena issued february 14th, yesterday march 26th, irs commissioner confirmed to the united states congress he has no intention of complying wit. we should do that as soon as we possibly can. >> keep us posted and thanks so much for joining us on the "the real story," congressman chaffetz. >> storm chaser risking their lives to get close to tornadoes have a new shield. you don't want to miss this thing. the new shield that will help them get even closer to the eye

t lois lerner heads to the hill today. >> holy guacamole. one of the favorite foods should be in short supply. wait until you hear the ridiculous reason why. >> seems everyone is getting in on the oscar selfie trend. which country star is using presidential power for his tweet. "fox and friends first starts right now. corn mu [music] >> welcome to "fox & friends". you are planning a little fun today. i am heather childers. >> i am ain'tly air heart. in just a few hours from now lois lerner is expected to face lawmakers on capitol hill over her role of targeting the tea party group. >> will she testify? doug luzader has the latest news in the committee. >> it is a mystery. we think maybe we will cee-lo which is learner make another appearance before a house committee today. no one seems to be entirely sure. certainly house members would like to hear from her today. there are a number of different options as to how this could play out. last year lois lerner who headed that division within the irs that improperly targeted tea party groups she g

lois lerner a parentally testifying this week and she wants something first. whether she will get it or not. honestly? i wanted a smartphone that shoots great video. so i got the new nokia lumia icon. it's got 1080p video, three times zoom, and a twenty-megapixel sensor. it's got the brightest display, so i can see what i'm shooting -- even outdoors, and 4 mics that capture incredible sound. plus, it has apps like vine -- and free cloud storage. my new lumia icon is so great, even our wipeouts look amazing. ♪ honestly, i want to see you be brave ♪ ♪ >>> updating a story we brought you last month. the 45 foot wide sinkhole under the museum in kentucky. today, crews are pulling eight rare corvettes out of the sinkhole. they are starting with the three easiest to reach, that's a good idea. the entire recovery process is stremed wide on the web. they plan to refill the whole and repair the museum building. no word on how long it will take. >>> her attorney indicates she will testify and it is a back and forth negotiation. we believe that the evidence causes

they reiterated a point to me that lois lerner was ready to testify if given one more week to prepare a written statement and testimony. darrell issa didn't want to do that because a lot of folks on the democratic side, and even some aides privately, would like issa would like to have this contempt vote play out in congress. that's not going to happen this week. next week they're in recess. it could possibly happen in committee two weeks from now and then go to the house floor. john boehner put the brakes on darrell issa and his committee a little bit after this blow-up with elijah cummings. but now with elijah cummings and democrats have this legal information, which republicans right now are dismissing and calling it -- or a spokesman for issa is calling it flawed, it gives them some ammunition to go back. and if nothing else, lawrence, what this lapse will end up being is a legal question, if the house holds lois lerner in con emt to, it then goes to a federal judge and the house democrats will say is it really worth this amount of millions of taxpayer dollars to go through a parli

our evidence leads to lois lerner that's why we hoped to hear from her. >> now the biggest question, what is next for lois lerner as chairman issa and john boehner are considering holding her in contempt. >> i have conferred with some of my members. i plan ton speaking to them and we plan to do it as early as next week. >> they could force her to testify. the fox news poll shows 71 percent of the country believes congress should investigate the irs. certainly a story we will be watching as it progresses. ainsley, tack to you. >>> thank you, mary ann. >> an arrest in the 2011 kidnapping and murder of nursing student holly. zachary adams now indicted in the 20-year-old's disappearance. there is no bond set. they will consider the death den ality if adams is convicted. >> day tour of the oscar pistorius trial. they showed the blade runner arriving in court early this morning. his neighbor is back on the witness stand. he says he heard gun shots and a woman screaming the night pistorius model girlfriend reba steenkamp died. he maintains he accidentally killed steenkamp after he had mista

lerner. >> lois lerner is an individual, we're asking for all of her e-mail. we haven't received all of lois lerner'ser, e-mails, one of the things we asked for. you could have given ways and means all of lerner's e-mails in a matter of seconds. all of lois lerner's e-mails is the highest current priority of this committee and will remain so as long as i'm chairman. >> do you think darrell issa wants all of lois lerner's emails? he can have all of her emails. >> we are providing you lois lerner's e-mails with regard to issues you raised. we're working hard to get you the lois lerner e-mails. what they want is something that will take years to produce. >> years? but what are years to darrell issa? after all, his investigation into benghazi has dragged on for some 17 months. it's led nowhere and yet it is still happening. yesterday 17 democrats on the house oversight committee sent a letter to congressman issa urging him to drop the issue. "we believe it is time to end these seemingly endless and unsubstantiated political attacks," his colleagues wrote. this let

issa asked lois lerner a few questions. she invoked the fifth amendment and as stan brand said, he never gave her a direct order to answer, and he never then overruled her objection to that order which the supreme court has said is necessary. that's the necessary sequence in order to proceed to a contempt of congress case against such a witness. today, mr. boehner's office of general council of the house of representatives finally replied to the democrats and stan brand's insistence that chairman issa violated the necessary procedures for establishing a contempt of congress case. the republican council to the republican house not surprisingly said today that a contempt of congress case against lois lerner is still technically viable. so who's right? john boehner's council to the house of representatives or tip o'neill's former council to the house of representatives stan brand? i'm going with stan brand. >> the case is made clear. he's got to overrule her objection in an explicit way and give her the opportunity to comply o

lois lerner, the former irs official, pleaded the fifth again. the committee chair, darrell issa, in this oversight committee hearing, dismissed the room without letting the ranking democrat, elijah cummings, ask his questions. cummings basically said, i want to have my say. later, both lawmakers took questions from reporters. here's darrell issa. >> mr. cummings said that he had questions to ask, instead he began making an opening statement, even after the committee had been adjourned, therefore, the committee stands adjourned. yes, sir? >> mr. chairman, how much of this is a political play for the republicans in the election? >> none, not a shred of it. >> all right, then just seconds ago, literally, this is what elijah cummings had to say. >> no, i have not. what we have done, and i applaud my members of my committee, i'm very proud of them, they've come here seeking the truth. we really do -- and i've said this many times, it is very important for us to make sure that government operates properly and operates effectively and efficiently, and

we bring in now the chiefover d lois lerner. so could this end questions over targeting? we bring in now the chief dock at correspondent at the washington examiner. so let's start here. i wanted to ask you, is it legally or constitutionally possible that lerner could face contempt if she continues to be silent? she has a right to invoke the fifth amendment against self incriminal nation, however, some believe that lerner waived that right. or is it more about ethics, you work for the people, now speak to the people. >> i think its he more the former. when she first arrived in congress to talk about the alleged targeting, she gave a 20 minutewhen she first arrived in congress to talk about the alleged targeting, she gave a 20 minute preamble defending herself. after that, she refused to testify. republicans assessed the situation and decided that that meant contempt of congress because she already started talking and then she decided to clam up. so i think that is the main argument here. when she returned again last week, she invoked the fifth amendment once again. again t

>> that's why they are still poo pushing to hold lois lerner in contempt of congress to bring her back in and fill in some of those gaps that we likely won't find out even if the irs does release that full sweep of documents. >> do you see chairman issa giving up at all. >> no, absolutely not. i think he is as frustrated as ever. partly because, as you mentioned, these emails and these documents are going to chairman camp. why haven't they been sent to chairman issa? i think that's created a little bit of a conflict between the two. and he will keep pursuing as much as he can to also kind of achieve a win on this issue. >> see, i see it as an end run of issa by doing it voluntarily to camp. you don't don't, byron. >> it could be. this is a congressional angle we are seeing. there is also actually a judicial angle here that if congress had all of this really great evidence, if they got all of this great evidence, what would they do with it? they would give it to the justice department to actually do any sort of prosecuting based on it now, as the department department has shown zero int

we learned it was not just lois lerner herself. it was higher up people that were engaged in this and she had these communications going back and forth. if she testifies, that's what we need to find out. it contradicts what she said in the apology and testimony. this is the most bizarre twisting and turning congressional investigation i have seen in decades and unbelievable to me she took the fifth amendment kind of and may have waived it in the way she said it and she's going to testify and not testify. and she wants to do it in a deposition format. and no one knows the answer to this and we'll not know until tomorrow. in the end of the day the american people deserve answers and who was organizing it and when. >> if she takes the fifth tomorrow how will you get those answers? >> it is interesting, we have civil litigation going on. if she takes the fifth amendment and can't not be deemed in admission of liability. in a civil case, the statement that you are taking the fifth are deemed admitted and that presents a different situat