because that will either exonerate or convict, essentially, lois lerner. >> mr. cummings is there with the president on not a sminlion of evidence. as a matter of fact, our evidence leads to lois lerner. and that's why we'd hoped to hear from her. if the ranking member had wanted to make a motion before i had adjourned i would have accepted. i adjourned. he then said he had a question. what you played there was after an adjournment. he then perked up and said i want to ask a question. i said what is your question. and then that exchange occurred because he didn't have a question. he was endlessly slandering the efforts of the committee. but having said that, we want to get to the truth. if the attorney had a proffer, which, as you know, would be tell us, don't tell us your client's innocent, tell us what we need to know. and he's never offered to do that. we've offered with his attorney, to be quite frank, his attorney in writing had supported the idea that she would testify under certain conditions. as we began rolling out an a little bit about what we intended

last summer he could have told them to hold lois lerner in contempt. weeks later, she resigned and is collecting her taxpayer funded pension. this is all messed up. >>> still ahead, new developments in ukraine. shep smith is there. >>> also, is the white house hiding something from you? how much do they really know about secretary sebelius and her fund-raisi fund-raising? to stay at rest... to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mcelebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for ny with arthritis pain d inflammation. plus, in clinical studies, celebrex is proven to improve daily physical function celeex can be taken with or without food. and it's not a narcotic. you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks. all prescription nsaids, like celebrex, ibuprofen naproxen and meloxicam have the same ca

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lois lerner pleads the fifth. hold her in contempt. second steps, offer her full immunicipality for testimony and two things can happen. if she takes full immunity and decides to offer testimony, we have an opportunity to find out what happened and the next step of that is darril issa to go after theires for codifying bad behavior that shpt happen against left or right. if she doesn't take full immunity, can the administration and erebbing holder and all of the players protect her, or do we not have enough on her. americans are all over this country are sick of government, back to kisterns point that produces little result or solution and we the people need to threaten them in the ballot box. >> how does that translate to the ballot box? do democrats vote or not vote? >> i think it affects potting ways. it depresses the vote a bit. and people lose hope that things are different. and things like the irs situation, along with a lot of other issues that happen could also mobilize people who are very frustrated with the government and want

why isn't the media interested in the lois lerner? >> well, i think as long as she continues to plead the fifth. they don't really see new news being out there. i think people have bought in a little bit to the whole idea there is a phony scandal. if it's a phony scandal why won't she testify? the question is why republicans might want to consider giving her immunity so that they can get the full story out there. if they're not getting anything right now they might want to consider that. >> what happened yesterday is you had congressman issa very frustrated and upset that he actually went on "fox news sunday" and broke some news. she would not plead the fifth she would answer questions and ended up pleading the fifth anyway. frustrated. whether or not he had the right to do that that distracted things and turned congressman cummings into a victim and it would have been much better off to let him spout off, whatever. he could have made himself look like a fool. >> i was stunned with the emails they did present her with. one was dated o

editorial report" tempers flare on capitol hill as lois lerner declines to answer questions in congress. why is she talking to the justice department instead? >> vulnerable democrats breathe a sigh of relief as the administration announces yet another obamacare delay. if you thought that was the only trick up the president's sleeve, wait till you see his budget. >>> welcome to the "journal editorial report," i'm stewart varny in for paul gigot. fireworks on capitol hill as lois lerner once again refused to answer questions at a house oversight and government reform committee hearing. committee chair darrell issa says contempt charges could come as early as next week. some democrats are crying foul, with ranking member elijah cummings calling the house's investigation into the targeting of tea party groups one-sided and unamerican. >> i am a member of the congress of the united states of america. i am tired of this. we have members over here each who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. it is absolutely something wrong with that and there is absolutel

you saw lois lerner. she walked in this morning. there was hope she would answer the questions that exist out there, like what did she know and when did she know it. what do you read, what do you pray for? the president was initially very uncomfortable what he learned that happened at the irs and said he wanted to get to the bottom of this. e lielijah cummings is speaking. up know we are up against a break. >> we interviewed 38irs employees. hundreds of thousands of pages of documents from irs have been reviewed. $14 million plus and counting in man hours have bee been expended with regard to this investigation into the irs, and still there has not been any evidence whatsoever that there was political motivation in regard to this targeting. in regard to these efforts. martha: i'm trying to give equal time to both of these gentlemen. we'll be back with more. ok, here's the way the system works. let's say you pay your guy around 2 percent to manage your money. that's not much, you think except it's 2 rcent every year. does that make a

this was going to be the opportunity that lois lerner pulled. this was an old game, they grandstanded and got headlines. by god, they succeeded. cbs did a story this morning, no mention, no discussion -- no serious discussion about her but they talked about elijah cummings. abc did nothing at all. remember i told you last week that they had done 22 seconds since june of 2013. well, that 22 second record continues. it has been 99 days since they even mentioned the irs scandal. but the best one was nbc news. i'm going to read you how they framed their news last night. in washington today, a public and startling example of the kind of behavior congress has become known for and congress has become gridlocked over. in other words, megyn, the story last night was not lois lerner. it was congress. >> right. you know, in their defense, you know, that exchange between issa and cummings was, it was a tv moment. so we as tv people we see a moment like that, we put it on tv and discuss it. so i see why they talked about that. but to ignore the substance of

and lois lerner knows some things, she's just not saying it. and as issa admits, she's the key of whether this gets any further. we need news here. and this was a bit of a fiasco today. i don't think either side's winning now. this has just become a partisan mud-slinging fight. >> do you know whether they have tried to strike a deal with her, immunity or whatever, to talk about this? because, obviously, she knows a good deal, her lawyers said as much. so, sing like a canary. do anything to get her to talk. >> yeah. this is a tough spot for republicans, because they don't want to give her full immunity, and i would imagine that there have been some negotiations back and forth and we've seen some e-mails that have been released, because lerner's attorney was disputing what issa said on sunday. so, you know, where we go from here, the senate is still investigating this, and that's actually a bipartisan investigation. we haven't seen that report. we're coming upon a year of this coming to light. and i'm sure republicans are going to have one-year a

lois lerner plead the fifth. republican chairman darrell issa adjourned the hearing, democrat elijah cummings explode in a anger, mike turner was there, he joins us here. the budget is not boring, it is a different plan to win this november. we have gone through it for you. we are shocked at what is in it. you think you have to responsibilities to spend your money? we are on that too. dr. keith ablow on teenagers suing their parents. moments from now the facebook sleuth who said some social media appetizers are wasting your money. just drama, passion, here we go. president obama's budget proposal includes a proposal to expand the earned income tax credit. that is a program that gives a check to low-income earners every year. the new proposal is 7.7 million workers get a larger payment and 5.8 million newly eligible for that check once a year. the program is right for corruption, the irs over paid $15 billion through the earned income tax credit in 2012. liz macdonald, more on this. is a corrupt program. liz: tax

we want just lois lerner's e-mails. that's it. they don't have to go back to the beginning of time, just this area where targeting was going on, i think that could lead to other things, but one step at a time. when they put out blanket requests for documents that go back to the time christ walks this earth, i am joking, but they're losing their argument. i think that that is what's most important. get those e-mails. >> i agree with that, neil. and we said that back to jim jordan, and some of the people who have been helping us with this. you know, she definitely is the key. i did hear some of the testimony today, and i think i saw a congressman from the committee on fox saying they have kind of narrowed it down at the end of the hearing to let the new head of the irs know, we want you to focus on these things. neil, i don't know. when he was talking about how long it's going to take, i think there's a correlation here, neil, between how long it took for them to process our 501 c 4 applications and how long it's going to take to ge

he's calling back former irs official lois lerner who has refused to testify. a "fox news sunday" exclusive. and president obama prepares to unveil his new budget with defense cuts and no entitlement reforms. >> it makes no effort to address the drivers of our debt and deficit. >> we'll sit down with leaders of the congressional budget the committee, senator rob portman and congressman chris van hollen. plus arizona governor jan brewer vetoes a bill that would protect religious freedom over gay rights. but other states may take up similar measures. our sunday panel weighs in. and our power players of the week. they are making the please don't touch signs at museums a thing of the past. all right now on fox "fox news sunda sunday". hello again from fox news in washington. we begin with a fast moving developments in ukraine. president obama spoke with russian president putin and said the u.s. will suspend planning for the g-8 summit in sochi this summer. putin got approval from the russian parliament to send troops into ukraine. and the russians have seized contr

. >> tempers fly as disgraced irs employee lois lerner once again pleads the fifth. and juan williams coming up next. and another big edition of "ask sean" that and much more as "hannity" continues. dentures are very different to real teeth. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. with the quicksilver cash back card from capital one, it means unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. it doesn't mean, "everything.. as long as you buy it at theas station." it doesn't mean, "everything... unl you hit your cash back limit." it means earn 1.5% cash back on every purchase, every place, every occasion, all over creation. that's what everything should mean. so consider... what's in your wallet? >>> welcome back to "hannity," tempers were flaring at a house oversight committee hearing after lois lerner declined to testify again. watch this? >> my c

they are grilling the irs commissioner former lois lerner's involvement on the targeting of groups. lerner not at the hearing today. she faces possible contempt of congress charges after pleading the fifth again at a hearing on march 5th. now we're hearing her e-mails may not be released for weeks. maybe years. chief congressional correspondent mike emanuel live on capitol hill for us. mike, fireworks

republicans demanding the irs turn over emails from lois lerner and

and number two, forget lois lerner. this issue is much bigger than lois lerner. this is what pat touched on. this is the corruption of the irs for political purposes, when nixon mused about using the irs to go after his enemies, they had an article of impeachment in the house judiciary committee. >> maybe there was more transparency then. just to clarify, her attorney said she will testify, but she will show up this week, ask for a week delay. if she gets it, she may testify. >> but you know, she is being used as a political pawn in a bigger game, which plays into what pat and john are talking about. basically, the corruption of our entire federal government, the politicization of the investigatory process. i don't believe she's believed she's waived her fifth amendment right, whether or not, to be fair to you, jamie, she has done it. more political circus, more political theater. we're not going to learn anything from her, i don't believe, except our government is irretrievably and irrevocably broken. >> at the same time, the irs is planning bigger attacks becau

. >> once again, lois lerner takes the fifth in the irs investigation. but members of congress certainly weren't silent. >> we have members over here who represent 700,000 people. you cannot just have a one-sided investigation. >> tonight we'll have the inside story about an alleged scandal that is still chaotic. ♪ macho, macho man ♪ i've got to be a macho man >>> the russian leader putin continues to thumb his nose at the world. and now some obama supporters are using putin against republicans. we'll tell you what that's all about. and dennis miller will weigh in. >>> please welcome the wickedly talented one and only adele dazim. >> huh? also tonight what the heck was john travolta doing at the academy awards? it was beyond bizarre. we will explain it. caution. you are about to enter the no-spin zone. the "factor" begins right now. >>> hi. i'm bill o'reilly. thanks for watching us tonight. the irs investigation goes nowhere again. that is the subject of this evening's "talking points memo." to bring you up to date, there are charges the internal rev

lois lerner being worried about the koch brothers. and lois lerner cutting out cincinnati, at the irs, oh, cincinnati was rogue, they acted on their own, no, this was a striblgtly washington, d.c., operation. the hysteria by representative c cummings. >> do you think it was theater? >> looking, he gave chairman issa -- i think he gave him an excuse to crying. let's let him then respond to this memo. instead of cut the mike, i'm sorry, and make this now the story that his mike was cut instead of the smoking gun proof that we have been looking for that surfaced today. >> it speaks to her knowledge and awareness, the memo, i'm not convinced perhaps as you, that it does represent a smoking gun in terms of demonstrating her guilt, but there's no question it should be explored and it is a significant move forward. but, on that issue, where does this investigation go from here? the attorney general of the united states has been held in contempt by congress. there are six major investigations going on by the issa committee. where are we heade

you take a look at lois lerner's history. she was if the fac, losing the case -- >> she's a big liberal. you're quite right. she's a big liberal. she runs this tax exempt division and she doesn't like it one bit that she has to grant the legal status to these tea party groups. she wants citizens united repealed. she wants congress to vote. she wants the fec to give her help. here's the deal, though. i believe, okay, i believe political strategy here, lois lerner as the head of this in the irs, basically shut down the tea groups, the tea party groups during the 2012 election. that was her goal. >> without question. >> and unfortunately, she succeeded. now here's the thing, tony. here's the bullish side of me. this is kudlow the optimist. now the tea party groups are mostly getting certified, okay? finally. and they are going to be back with a vengeance this november. so lerner ultimately is going to fail. that's my take. >> you can talk about the fact that reports of the tea party's death has been greatly exaggerated all to th

lois lerner, former irs director, who's been the target of a number of hearings, continued to plead the fifth today, days after issuing an apology for the scandal. >> my counsel has advised me i have not waived my constitutional rights under the fifth amendment and on his advice, i will decline to answer any question on the subject matter of this hearing. >> so you're not going to tell us who wanted to fix the problem caused by citizens united? >> on the advice of my counsel, i exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question. >> things exploded after that. chairman issa adjourned the hearing less than 15 minutes after it started, before congressman cummings had a chance to ask a question, leading to what you're about to see. take a look. >> i'm going to -- let me say what i have to say. i've listened to you for the last 15 or 20 minutes. let me say what i have to say. i have one procedural -- >> ms. lerner, you're released. >> first, i would like to use my time to make some brief points. for the past year, the central republican accusation -- >> we're adjourned. cl

our evidence leads to lois lerner that's why we hoped to hear from her. >> now the biggest question, what is next for lois lerner as chairman issa and john boehner are considering holding her in contempt. >> i have conferred with some of my members. i plan ton speaking to them and we plan to do it as early as next week. >> they could force her to testify. the fox news poll shows 71 percent of the country believes congress should investigate the irs. certainly a story we will be watching as it progresses. ainsley, tack to you. >>> thank you, mary ann. >> an arrest in the 2011 kidnapping and murder of nursing student holly. zachary adams now indicted in the 20-year-old's disappearance. there is no bond set. they will consider the death den ality if adams is convicted. >> day tour of the oscar pistorius trial. they showed the blade runner arriving in court early this morning. his neighbor is back on the witness stand. he says he heard gun shots and a woman screaming the night pistorius model girlfriend reba steenkamp died. he maintains he accidentally killed steenkamp after he had mista

i think the reality is this is pointing much higher up the chain than lois lerner. she either should get immunity to testify or be held in contempt. >> that's my question. is she holding out for immunity. >> i think so. if i was her lawyer, i would be trying to get immunity, too. she made some statements that were incriminated. she planted a question so she could take the report, independent investigators report within treasury. you can't forget that fact. >> so many unanswered questions. >> been going since the beginning. i think she wants immunity. the question is whether they will give it. >> amazing developments. thanks so much, jay. >>> massive fire engulfing a three-story apartment building. crass particular steps to get out alive. ukraine, what russia has over europe that may cause leaders to shy away from supporting any u.s. sanctions. >>> is global warming biting into a chipotle staple? why the chain might have to pull guacamole from the menu. are you kidding me? that brings us to the favorite question. if your favorite restaurant quits serving guacamole, w

the top democrat, wants to question lois lerner on all this. he contend that republicans are operating one-sided investigation here and around and around they go, david. david: rich, i don't want to overstate the importance of this memo lost in the shuffle between congressman. the president said time and time again, including to our own fox news's bill o'reilly, this was a cincinnati abrasion. a bunch of local yo calls government involved in this. they shouldn't. this memo specifically says from lois lerner, inside the beltway, not only is cincinnati not the center of this, but they should be kept out of it. this should be a washington, d.c. operation. that is very important. >> it is an important fact. one the committee would have liked to question lois lerner on. she pleads the fifth. second time in nine months. david: she may be coming back yet again. , if they put out a court order to try to get her t was fun day inside the beltway. rich edson, thank you very much, my friend. >>> meanwhile with the unemployment rate still at 6.6%, millions

issa asked lois lerner a few questions. she invoked the fifth amendment and as stan brand said, he never gave her a direct order to answer, and he never then overruled her objection to that order which the supreme court has said is necessary. that's the necessary sequence in order to proceed to a contempt of congress case against such a witness. today, mr. boehner's office of general council of the house of representatives finally replied to the democrats and stan brand's insistence that chairman issa violated the necessary procedures for establishing a contempt of congress case. the republican council to the republican house not surprisingly said today that a contempt of congress case against lois lerner is still technically viable. so who's right? john boehner's council to the house of representatives or tip o'neill's former council to the house of representatives stan brand? i'm going with stan brand. >> the case is made clear. he's got to overrule her objection in an explicit way and give her the opportunity to comply o

lerner, can you explain how is it that cuffs were not placed on lois lerner for contempt of congress, because she is innocent until proven guilty, she has the right to take the fifth. but does not mean in the meantime see she can make a mockery of the process that has been going on too long. give it up, there is nothing to this fake irs scandal of yours, if there were don't you think that real media would be all over it, hey clown o, do i look like a clown to you, are you serious? do you think that mainstream media has interest in pursuing a story about the irs going after conservative groups, no, this is operation ignore. and just hope it goes away, but god forbid that liberal groups were being targeted. let's just say if it was george bush, he would be impeached by now. pete i ep ho you are wrong. i think you are right to put part of -- on republican, they knew lerner was not going to talk. what is the points of the charade? to show it is asia raid. victor in miami, what do you propose politicians do to resolve this so-called scandal of yours, first of all, it is a scandal. very da

they reiterated a point to me that lois lerner was ready to testify if given one more week to prepare a written statement and testimony. darrell issa didn't want to do that because a lot of folks on the democratic side, and even some aides privately, would like issa would like to have this contempt vote play out in congress. that's not going to happen this week. next week they're in recess. it could possibly happen in committee two weeks from now and then go to the house floor. john boehner put the brakes on darrell issa and his committee a little bit after this blow-up with elijah cummings. but now with elijah cummings and democrats have this legal information, which republicans right now are dismissing and calling it -- or a spokesman for issa is calling it flawed, it gives them some ammunition to go back. and if nothing else, lawrence, what this lapse will end up being is a legal question, if the house holds lois lerner in con emt to, it then goes to a federal judge and the house democrats will say is it really worth this amount of millions of taxpayer dollars to go through a parli

we bring in now the chiefover d lois lerner. so could this end questions over targeting? we bring in now the chief dock at correspondent at the washington examiner. so let's start here. i wanted to ask you, is it legally or constitutionally possible that lerner could face contempt if she continues to be silent? she has a right to invoke the fifth amendment against self incriminal nation, however, some believe that lerner waived that right. or is it more about ethics, you work for the people, now speak to the people. >> i think its he more the former. when she first arrived in congress to talk about the alleged targeting, she gave a 20 minutewhen she first arrived in congress to talk about the alleged targeting, she gave a 20 minute preamble defending herself. after that, she refused to testify. republicans assessed the situation and decided that that meant contempt of congress because she already started talking and then she decided to clam up. so i think that is the main argument here. when she returned again last week, she invoked the fifth amendment once again. again t

>> that's why they are still poo pushing to hold lois lerner in contempt of congress to bring her back in and fill in some of those gaps that we likely won't find out even if the irs does release that full sweep of documents. >> do you see chairman issa giving up at all. >> no, absolutely not. i think he is as frustrated as ever. partly because, as you mentioned, these emails and these documents are going to chairman camp. why haven't they been sent to chairman issa? i think that's created a little bit of a conflict between the two. and he will keep pursuing as much as he can to also kind of achieve a win on this issue. >> see, i see it as an end run of issa by doing it voluntarily to camp. you don't don't, byron. >> it could be. this is a congressional angle we are seeing. there is also actually a judicial angle here that if congress had all of this really great evidence, if they got all of this great evidence, what would they do with it? they would give it to the justice department to actually do any sort of prosecuting based on it now, as the department department has shown zero int

we learned it was not just lois lerner herself. it was higher up people that were engaged in this and she had these communications going back and forth. if she testifies, that's what we need to find out. it contradicts what she said in the apology and testimony. this is the most bizarre twisting and turning congressional investigation i have seen in decades and unbelievable to me she took the fifth amendment kind of and may have waived it in the way she said it and she's going to testify and not testify. and she wants to do it in a deposition format. and no one knows the answer to this and we'll not know until tomorrow. in the end of the day the american people deserve answers and who was organizing it and when. >> if she takes the fifth tomorrow how will you get those answers? >> it is interesting, we have civil litigation going on. if she takes the fifth amendment and can't not be deemed in admission of liability. in a civil case, the statement that you are taking the fifth are deemed admitted and that presents a different situat

why does lois lerner plead the fifth? why doesn't she tell the truth and be transparent. i'm not finished. so holding someone in contempt of congress will make an example when you're called before congress you need to testify to tell the truth. >> this is just another witch-hunt. >> here we go. >> i wouldth rahher the republicans focus on repealing citizens united and where corporations can and not focus on progressive tea party groups. reform this system. there is a bill on the floor to do that to reform the system, get dark money out of the way. david camp and issa and angela could agree we have to jump onboard. >> i have to leave it there. time is running out on me. always good to have you both join us. >> thank you. >>> janice dean said spring will come. as we head into it, the long, snowy winter has already left behind a souvenir for us. expensive and potentially dangerous pot holes. the tire-destroying differe ini popping up on streets, damaging vehicles and saddling cities for the work and cost of repairing broken pavements. will we fix it? >> it has been a pot hol

lois lerner, the former irs official, pleaded the fifth again. the committee chair, darrell issa, in this oversight committee hearing, dismissed the room without letting the ranking democrat, elijah cummings, ask his questions. cummings basically said, i want to have my say. later, both lawmakers took questions from reporters. here's darrell issa. >> mr. cummings said that he had questions to ask, instead he began making an opening statement, even after the committee had been adjourned, therefore, the committee stands adjourned. yes, sir? >> mr. chairman, how much of this is a political play for the republicans in the election? >> none, not a shred of it. >> all right, then just seconds ago, literally, this is what elijah cummings had to say. >> no, i have not. what we have done, and i applaud my members of my committee, i'm very proud of them, they've come here seeking the truth. we really do -- and i've said this many times, it is very important for us to make sure that government operates properly and operates effectively and efficiently, and

they agreed to turn over all emails of lois lerner. is that your understanding as well? >> that is the great thing about washington and they love to par's words. [laughter] as a washed up lawyer i need to see that precise language in the subpoena what we ask for to not contrast and compare with their production. if you don't ask for with particularity of specificity will not get its. lou: now we learn lois lerner is giving a full interview to the justice department despite taking the fifth before your committee twice? >> it takes a lot to stun me but she talk to prosecutors who could put her in jail without immunity but she won't talk to of watchdog former prosecutors who cannot put her in jail without immunity. i feel bad for your viewers and for the victims of the targeting because they were opening -- hoping to see her provide answers with another lesson in the fifth amendment. but we are not dead with her -- done with her or her attorney. lou: do you believe we will see your committee and the congressional committee of the record with a fax? >> we have a chance and t

speaking of lois lerner, house oversight committee chair issa was on the record last night. here is what he had to say about holding her in contempt of congress next. >> the speaker called that he thought that was appropriate today. our committee will consider it. i've conferred with some of my members. i plan on meeting with them before i leave this week. we could consider doing it as early as next week. >> judge napolitano, fox news senior analyst is my guest on this. >> hi, gretchen. >> perfect guest for this. will will house do through with contempt for lois lerner. >> ordinarily if a witness is summoned to testify before the house and the witness invokes protections of fifth amendment, that alone is an insufficient basis for contempt. contempt means you failed to comply with a lawful order. >> house did it with eric holder whereas to fast and furious. >> in the case of eric holder, the house found by a preponderance of the evidence he failed to answer questions accurately by failing to give documents demanded. what do they say she did wrong? remember a few months ago sh

fireworks on capitol hill as lois lerner once again refused to answer questions

the irs has, in fact, turned over every one of the lois lerner e-mails in this case. they have turned over 500,000 pages of documents from the irs to congress. there are 150 people working full time at the irs, not examining people's tax returns anymore, not trying to increase the revenue available to the treasury at the irs, through the irs, but 150 people working full time just to provide documents to darrell issa and these kinds of subpoenas. >> that's true, but i think we have to back up. this is not an honest inquiry. this is a star chamber operation. this is cherry picking information, deliberately co-leco co-lewding with a republican idea in the irs to make sure the investigation is solely about tea party and conservative groups even though we know it included progressive titles as well as conservative titles and that they were equally stringent. it was a foolish thing to do. and it's wrong, but it was not just targeted at conservatives. darrell issa wants to make sure that information does not get out. and it's been a very shameful thing under the sham of an i

lois lerner had worked in the federal election commission. and he was a commissioner there and she is well versed in our case and knows what our case was about. 501 c4s and when they saw the case and the president and his allies i believe did and yesterday's evidence shoes they were convinced that the citizens united ruling would be the undoing for the democrats and in the last several years, they took greater advantage of our ruling than the republicans have. >> you know, i listened to darril issa, he seems to be in a dead-end. >> is there a way to get the answers? >> bill, first of all, i served as chief investigator in the committee in the '90s and i led the investigation in the clintons, and we had multipeel people and you have to be smart and tough enough to go all of the way. and you have to file contempt charges and bring them for a vote in front of the house of representative and not just the committee. but the entire house and you have to file them as a criminal referral to the department of justice. the problem is the attorney gener

what questions do you have for lois lerner? what are you going to ask her? >> chris, we know what she did in most cases. what we don't know is why she did it. what we do understand, of course, is this is someone who came from the federal election commission. she came with a bias towards groups having to disclose. 501-c-4s are different in because they don't primarily do election hearing, if you will, they don't have to disclose donors. en that seems to be one of the questions that could lead us to understand why a liberal individual who favored disclosure wanted to make sure that tea party groups had to diz close who the donors were. >> when you say you want to know why she did it, does that mean you want to know does this end with her or go higher up than her? >> that's certainly a big part of it. we know a lot of people she coordinated with, some of the things she said, how they either acquiesced or chafed against the things she was asking them to do. we do really want to to know that burning question who have else knew about it? who else coordinated? and