i think you said that in november, 1775 after lexington on concorde. after the boston tea party and after the boston massacre and after george washington was made at the head of the army. >> host: but you think there's a reason people want to start the conversation because there is this blindt to stop that whn people don't know and it may be when someone comes up with the project may be it's the first time someone has heard it and said let's give it a chance. so hiding this part of history from us because it does happen and it isn't taught. why is that? >> to suggest they are not doing it on purpose and the way we teach history, when we teach history is cursory and unserious. the reason we are arguing about it is it matters. in 1984, orwell says he who controls the past controls the future and he who controls the past controls thehe future. we argue about the trajectory of the nation. one of thete interesting pointsi never considered when it comes to this what do we know about american history has to do with another lynching that you wrote about in a c

i think he said that in november after lexington and concord after the boston massacre and after george washington was made head of the revolutionary army so it doesn't square. it's so bad it's obviously meretricious. >> you think there's a reason that people want to start the conversation because there's in american history people don't know. maybe we should give it a chance so who's at fault for hiding this part of american historyho from us? why is that? >> a lot't of people just don't know in and the way we teach history it's probably cursory and unserious. thecu reason we are arguing abot it is in 1984 orwell said the past controls the future and who controls the present controls the past. when we argue about the past we argue about the trajectory of the nation. >> one of the really interesting point that i had never considered on what we know about american history and what we don't has to do with another legend that you wrote about on america's lynchings in the raise the point that our government did have knowledge about this but they were all classified and you wrote secrecy tel

i think he said that in november 1775 after lexington and concorde.after the boston tea party. after the boston massacre. after george washington was made head of the revolutionary army. it doesn't square. and it's so bad, it's obviously meretricious. >> but do you think there's a reason people want to start the conversation because there is this lined stop of history where people don't know so maybe when someone comes up with the 1619 which is riddled with problems, maybe it's the first time someone heard it and says maybe we should give it a chance. was out fall or hiding this part of america history because it isn't taught and why is that? >> i don't think hiding suggests that they're doing it on purpose. a lot of people don't know and a lot of the way we teach history is probably cursory and not serious . the reason we're arguing about it is because it matters and in 1984 orwell says he who controls the past controls the future and he who controls the present controls the past. when we're arguing about the past we're arguing about the trajectory of the nation. >> one of the

he goes to lexington. it's curious, one of his generalscu wrote to the trustees and said it's great that you got lee to become president. he's going to be the a great figurehead. don't give him any work to do, just put him on the letterhead and let him be the figurehead of the college. the trustees became figure happieds. robert e. lee ran the place. he rewrites the curriculum from top to bottom. he basically sidelines the old classical curriculum and starts bringing in modern subjects. he starts bringing in chemical engineering, he starts bringing in journalism. and not only that, but he does away with the student code of conduct. he now says to all students -- and he interviews every student who comes to washington college. he says there is no code of conduct here, the only thing we expect of you is that you will behave as a gentleman. now, doesn't that sound generous? no. you know what that means? that means robert event lee is now the judge, jury and executioner of all student behavior. [laughter] he a

number he goes to lexington and it's curious. one of his generals wrote to the trustees and said it's great that you've got lee to becomepresident, is going to becomea great figurehead . just put him on the letterhead and let him be the figurehead of the college . you know something, the trustees became figureheads robert e lee ran the place . he rewrites the curriculum from top to bottom. he gets, he basically sidelines the old classical curriculum and starts bringing in modernsubjects . starts bringingin mechanical engineering . he starts bringing in turtles and and not only that but he does away with the student code of conduct. he now says to all students, every student who comes to washington college he says there is no code of conduct here, the only thing we expected you is that you will behave as a gentleman. that now doesn't that sound generous? number you know what that means, that means robert e lee is now the judge jury and executioner of all student behavior. he takes control of in everything at the college and you kn

he goes to lexington and its curious one of those generals wrote to the trustees and said it's great that you got lee to become president. he's going to be great figure and don't give them any work to do this put them on the letterhead and you know something that trustees say where burt ely ran the place. he rewrites the curriculum from top to bottom and he basically sidelines the classic curriculum and he starts bringing in modern subjects. he brings in mechanical engineering and journalism and not only that but he does away with the student code of conduct. he now says to all students in the interviews every student who comes to washington college. he says there's no code of conduct here and the only thing we expect of you is that you will behave as a gentleman. that does not sound generous? no. that means robert e. lee is the judge jury and executioner of all student behavior. he takes control of everything in the college and you know the place where he's the best? fund-raising. cole edwards thought of robert lee as it dealt mental officer. he shakes the apple side of the trees es

beginning with the signing of the declaration of independence or more accurately with the battle of lexington and concord but in your book you take the roots of it back not only to the french and indian war but even in the decade before that and you see the roots of this brewing bifurcation as going back long before there was an actual conflict whereas as you also point out for benjamin franklin well into 1775 he was still hoping for reconciliation with the british empire and that an arrangement could be achieved whereby the united states or what would become the united states and that's an anachronism but where the colonies would become partners with the british motherland in a world empire so i found that really really interesting and i was wondering if you could elaborate on that ache as i think that's also a very fresh approach. >> so yes i do start the story in lexington and concord in before the french and indian war because what i'm trying to get at is this question of what causes a person to turn their back on the country and take arms against it? how are these rebels created? i don't

particularly robertson county, sumner county, counties on the kentucky border began raising a lot, and the lexington foundation in robertson county where they owned 200 slaves. there is a lovely book about the plantation that enslaved people have lived there but one thing it brought to nashville, a market for enslaved people. a lot are advertising in the newspapers, there was a slave pen on the hill where the college is. there's a slave pen in the market where the bus transit building is, close to the state capital and slavery becomes a business and one of the most wealthy men in the united states is a man from sumner county named isaac franklin who became very wealthy buying slaves in alexandria, virginia and transporting them initially, he made them walk by land through here and they put them on boats later and took them around florida to new orleans and up the river but he became one of the wealthiest men in the country in the slave business and there's a new book called the ledger and the chain in which the historian is taken all the financial records, this would be such tedious work and really

out of here and then worse he shoots the horse of the union officer in front of him from like six —- lexington kentucky so back in those days they sure loved kentucky horses. the bullet hit the horse and it cannot be worse because we've got problems. so then and then fire back and they say why did they know who he was? he was wearing a raincoat and they could not see his uniform and he sounded like an officer so what the heck when officers say stop shooting he stop shooting so in my talking glorious passages there were instances of friendly fire is a common thing that could happen uniform confusion and everything else. so this quote actually comes from at the end of the long day of fighting thomas is closing in on a and tried to bring everything up and to be in position remember told you he was detail oriented? that would've kept pushing intel he pushed them in the river he said i pushed all day long we need to replace our losses we need to get situated and bring up some artillery and we have us willing cumberland river behind an asset that if you ever study horseshoe bend get back to a river