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tv   Meet the Press  NBC  July 29, 2019 2:30am-3:30am EDT

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nothing, and i finally looked back to this entire process, un-american. >> now democrats are opening impeachment hearings. >> we will concede what we havew when need to.
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>> i think fwhoowe're in the position. >> adam schiff, rick scott of florida, and tom steyer. plus politics. president trump calls a black congressm congressman's district a disgusting rat and rodent inf t infested district. joe biden promising a less polite performance this w time. >>e'll see. >> joining me is rich lowery. helene copper. welcome to sunday, it's "meet press." the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press."
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with chuck todd. if democrats squinted just hard enough they could say they got what they wanted from robtt moo -- robert mueller this week. sey said it i wrong to accept assistance from a foreign government. ot exonerate not fuueller did e president. no he was not cleared of obstruction of justice, yes, mr. trump's business dealings with russia during the campaign, and no the investigation was not a witch hunt if is also true that mueller's six hours of reluctant testimony, repeating or riconfirming what was alt released what was produced to the public months ago faile to produce a can't pull your eyes away mont. wednesday's hearing exposed congressional republicans as
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more interested in things other than the russiane.interferenc and it is continuing at this very moment. for now the next move again is with the democrats as they debate among themselves once again whether or not to move ahead with impeachment proceedings. >> we're watching the temperature rise.t we're quite at boiling point, but we're close. >> everyone was waiting for mueller, but after his halting and somewhat reluctant performance --t >> i is problematic is annder statement. >> what is the citation, sir. now they're waiting for house speaker nancy elosi? >> are you trying to run out the clock? >> no, let's get sophisticated about this. >> theyme out of wednesday's hearing not ready to budge on impeachment. but they don't seem ready to rule it out, either, and the
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waiting game is nothingnew. for nearly two acquires they havuated. first for muller to complete his investigat tn. >> release mueller report as soon as possible. >> then for the unredacted version. congress must get the full unredacted report anteevidence.n then to hear from mueller himself. >> in terms of bob mueller, he will have to testify. >> and now a new hurdle from the house judiciary chairman, jerry nadler. >> if our committee isgoing to recommend articles of impeachment to the house, we must make the strongest possible case to our public. >> democrats are divided between peach now progressives and wait and see moderates, their united against mueller. >> he lied three tim he pointed out in the report, why didn't you charge him with a
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report. >> when christopherteel lied, nothing. trump is not above thelaw, but he certainly isn't blow it either. >> over the course of myicareer have seen a number of challenges to our democracy. the russian government's effort toer intre in our election is among the most serious. >> a day later, a bipartisan senate report detailed those efforts showing the election systems of all 50 states were targeted by russia in 2016, t that report from the senate intell committee se s to be where outrage ends. mitch mcconnell again blocking consideratioof bill put farce mothly by democrats. >> they spent two years hyping up a experience theory about president trump in russia. that is a far cry fr where
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mcconnell and other republicans were in 2016 and 2017. >> let me just speak for myself. the russians are not our friends. >> they need to pay a price. >>s it i unacceptable that russia or any other country but russia meddled in our elections. period that ist right there. >> joining me now is adam schiff whis chairman of the house chej committee, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> referee: having a few days to have the hearings sink in, i'm sure you reviewed the transcripts as well. >> they welcomed russian help, built it into the game main plan, and then lied about it and that there was multiple acts by the president that constitute ststruction of jue. this was essentially a campaign
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and president focused by greed. i found his temperature chilling and most chilling the fact that they confirmed that the rush shaps have neverhe stopped t campaign. the acceptance of foreign help, the willingness to reive , may become a new normal under this president and that ought to alarm every american. >> quite a few people observed that your half of the hearing seemed to animate mr. mueller a little more. he seemed to give more on since ers than he did in the first part. it made some of us wonder would the obstruction charges be easier for americans to understand if they had seen pret senation of theit crime lf first. you were part one but you came as part two of part two of
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mueller's testimony. >> i think there may be a number of reasons why the testimo in theecond hearing came more naturally to the special council. this animated his wor for decades, that is protecting the country, and i think he is most concerned that we're not rising to the challenge of protecting our elections and our democracy. and so you could see him become the most passionate about that. i think that we could go second hat he r the questions would respond to. we understood the dynamic a little better than if we had been up to bat first. >> james comey announced, robert mueller, the report was he submitted in tspring. it was seasons, it took
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essentially four months. obviously you wish it had been oner. could you have done more to make it happen sooner? >> i'm not sure what more we could have done. of course bill barrithheld the report as long as he could. he wanted the narrative baked in as long as possible in is the same reason it took so long to get mueller. the american people have to realize it is not the evidence, it is the summary of the evidenke. i would li to see the evidence. i would like to hear from the witnesses before we make a decision about charging the president. i think where we are is stri described is preliminary to a u judicial hearing. but yes, it is taking too long, but that is largely byde the gn of the president. >> was there any part of his
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testimony that you found yi unsatisf? >> i wish that he had testified in a more narrative fashion. the words didn't need to be coaxed from him as much as it did. >> you were hoping bring it alive? >> i think it came alive more through very short questions and ar answers rather than a great deal of description. i thinknt going i the hearing, we should not have too many expectations because we know the substance of his testimony. most people have had it filtered by the misleading characterization. >> there was a linguistic debate. you said we are a at preliminary stage of an investigative -- all
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right, is this impeachment or not? and you're not there yet, why? >> i think for the purposes of the proceeding it is a potential impeachment and i say that because what we say, what we ask of the constitution, is what is the function of how we describee soing? and right now the most important thing is we really set it for the course. and i think we are. where we will get to for an impeachment, get to a decision, let's diindict the preshent, impeac the president, we have to be oky, but we should be able to make the case to the american people and i like to
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see the evidence so i'm confident that we can do that before we say we're ready to charge the president of the united states.>> that is unsatisfactory to so. pelosi has set an extraordinary precedent. that clear evidence, meticulously collected, that a president has confirmed when she calls crimes against the constitution does not con city substitute sufficient grounds for >> this gets to the argument that says regardless of what you think the outcome is in the senate, t n't press if.ntde do it. >> look, there is, i think, a great weight to the argument that this is the strongest form of senture that we have.
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what message does that. losing that, having the presidentui acqed, and having an adjudication that it is not simple. i think that is a preordained case for the american people, i want to make sure that is true. it will occupy the national's time. >> i there a moment when we're too late. >> it is justiceni de. they are doing everything they can to obstruct the congressional investigation, having on instructed justice, so there may be a point in the fall where we decide ok, heis
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violating a different part of the constitution. . that will not be a crime or a misdemeanor. it is misdeaning in office. so this is why i say the president is doing everything he n to get us into impeachment. that in list be an impeachable . fess >> you don't want there to be a deadline you're saying? >> i'm saying there will be a deadline because we will either get the answers we need or the presidit's obstruction be so complete thathat itself backs becomes a ground for his impeachment. >> chairman of the intell committee, thank you for coming on. joining me now is senator rick scott of florida. welcome back to "meet the
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press." >> good morning, chuck, how are you doi>>? 'm good. i want to start with the senate intelligence committee report that was just released the day after the report. they carried into at least 2017, in an attempt to intrude at some point all 50 states where the russians extracted information,. >> the russians say that russia ran china. gent.ve to be very di when i was governor, i allocated dollars for cyber security and dollars for our separately elected county supervisors. we passed a provision with the
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ndaa. look the russians arethere and 're going to try to get into our system. >> it seems like thede presi even did it, if they did it they're not being deterred. the president himself poo-poos this, how will we get deterrents if thed president won't st up to him? >> let's look at the facts. president obama did not dohehat hould have done and that's why the russians were able get into two counties in florida. the trump administration put a lot of effort into 2018. so a lot of effort into this,
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but -- >> but you're avoiding the part, the president mocked in front of a worldudience when a reporter asked did you ask vladimir putin, did you tell him not to lterfere in the elections. >> let'sok at the trump administration and what they have done. let's look at their words and actions. they have been very aggressive to make sure there is no influence for any oer country. and they're going to do, and not jure russia, the going to try to impact their elections and be diligent. >> you brought up two counties. it was the state of illinois, the state of florida is anonymous in here. there is a lot of speculation
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based on simir eporting that it is likely state two referred to in this eport in florida. did you learn new information from this report that you did not know as governor at the time. >> you have never read that report? >> no,av i h had briefings. we know they tritw to get into counties in florida. they didn't have any impact on the election. i put a lot of effort in to ma t suy could not get into the election. we had our cyber security experts, and we also allocated dollars to our supervisor of ouections. >> y were talking about briefings you got. did you get direct briefings in 2016 or was it through other channels that dhs contacted
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florida? >> not directly to me, but in 2018 in my election i reached out to homeland security, fbi, and doj to make sure it was nothing they had. they told me at t time they had no infiltration of our system at the time. >> when did you find out about the 2016 infiltraon? it really happened this year. and so i have gotten briefings, and bottom line is they got into o counties, they had no impacts, they didn't change any voter registration, voter rolls, we put a lot of effort in to make sure that couldn't happen. >> you talk about changing votes. if it is an influence campaign or worse they have taken voter information, it is not influencing the votes, iis he concern that voters won't see their names on the voter rolls.
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that they will be turned away there. they already got a bunch of information from the state of illinois. how do we prevent this in 2020. >> i think the secretary of work s office wants to together to make sure this doesn't happen. we did it in florida. we made sure we worked with d.o.j. to make sure it didn't happen. the russians are here and other countries,hey're going to try to influence our flexielections hey're doing the same thing in europe. >> you spent a lot of time, energy, and resources trying to win over nonwhite voters in the state of florida in your elections for governor and the senate. you learned spanish, youspeak spanish, the president spends a lot of time on his twitter feed tryio racially divide the country, does that under mine
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efforts in the republican state of florida. i >> first think it is important he talk to everyone. running for election or when you're elected you represent everybi y. on friday t with a group of can chinese americans. i think we do everything we have to bring this country back together. >> why doesn't the president think that. doing this is just stoking racial resentment left and right. he did it multiple timesnt this mo alone. he thinks this is good politics inside the republican party. do you think it is good politics in the republican party? said 's look at what h and why he did it. congressman cummings sat there and attacked our border patrol agents, all righ this reminds me of what -- >> that justifies a racial resentment tweet inr ponse? is that presidential leadership?
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>> well -- no, i look, i didn't do the tweets. i can't talk about why he did what he did, but i'm disappointed in people like congressman cummings who is attacking border patrol agents who are trying to do their job without the fundingh t democrats will not give them. i have been to the border, i lked to border patrol agents, i know they care about these individuals. we have to gem them the o resources to deir job. >> it's not lost on me that you were harsherou on elijah umming than on the president on what he has done. i understand the politics ofit, but do we ever heal if each side goes into the corner. >> if ire with him,ly
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disagree with him. i will disagree with him when i disagree with him. he is not happy with it, ofno course but just like on puerto rico, i'm going to do what is in the best interest of my state. i'm disapporeted when people a out there attacking border patrol agents? would i like everyone to come together and work gether? that's what i'm trying to do in my state. the country is divided because of a lot ofgs thin >> i will leave it there, senator rick scott, most senators that used to be governors probably prefer the governor title anyway. thank you for comiing on. do kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevinke
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welcomeback. we have rich lowry.av wea great set up here and he wrot this. know that you're likely going to fall short, and you may improve the chances of reelection. if they choose not to impeef, they run that risk. but do they have the democratic dill lem ma, right? where is the wrach from? it seems they are coming from inde of a bubble. we didn't here in a in 2018.
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you talk to members, they're not getting gone calls saying you better impeach or you lost us. it is not spilling out. >> let's talk to a democrat here. is there season saying i'm going to vote against him? >>no, we have our hot set up this year. i don't think yun time the impeachment issue has been raised. they're saying are we going to spend all of our talk talking about peachment. >> you don't worry about it? >> we don't have enough to say
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in pressdense, but talking about the issues for the tax cut for the rish, the issues of racial division. we win when we talk about health care, infrastructure, good quality jobs, those are the core democratic values. what democrats care about is beating trump. that's what they want. >> are you convince thad impeachment helps trump? >> i think the compromi at moment is a cat situation where it is kind of dead and it is kind of alive at the same time. >> if they really start an inquiry will they say there are no articles.
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and you look at the poll last ek there is a swath of issues with democratic support. y would they focus on one thing that does not have political support. >> i think the order their american doesn't really understand anyway. i think in the end, and i'm not tag about the left part of the base, i think they are interested in whatever gets don mcgann on the stand. i think it is something people are not in tune with except for the interior of the democratic party. >> the president is insisting on trying to insert himself into the show today and yesterday we
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theseta ats. what do we have up there, guys? let's get the initial tweet. as proven last week, the border is clean, efficient, and well run. the cummings district is a disgusting rat and rodent infested place. if he spent more time in baltimore maybe he could clean it up. we know what he isg, doin he committee is doing.oversight he is creating the ultimate distraction for the entire political community which is race. >> yes, this the tern rain that he is that he is on.
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despite the fact that people give him credit for what he is doing on the economy. the governor made this point. where do you want to fight? for democrats that is health care, that is where they want to be fighting, the president doesn't want to fight here because they will make unforced errors. it is too far to the eft. >> the stoking of resentment. that is not what it is about. he has a fact pattern that does not support that very well. i think he left a lot of people ut on a limb given what he di today. is there a point that this becomes a breaking point inside the republican party? >> i think what you have to understand about republicans is that for a lot of them,
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defending george w. bush and paul ryan from charges of racism.is th is another very bad tweet. if you're in his target he will make any charge no matter how personally hateful or low against you. i think you just wish there was more awareness there. >> if he had a problem with it, he ought to try to fix that, too. >> what donald trump has done. whether it be with elijah cummings, how he started out with these people from thesetr cos, and then of course it
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was charlottesville. i talked to the president that day. there was a thousand armed people from 13 states screaming the most disgusting things that i could notay on this program saying we're going to burn you. how did we goat a place like this in america. i really blame him for the atmosphere. people used to wear hoods this country, they used to do it at night, now they feel like they can walk in broad daylight. >> the president wants this to be about race. happy , you think she about going after his daughter. i was curious about your question to rich, which i think was answered by your interview
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with rick scott, just now, when you said what is the breakingfo point the republican party? i think we have seen there is no breaking point for the republican party. >> certainly not on race. >> all right, i'm going to pause it here. when we come back, the democratic candidate that has been making the case for the one thing you learn pretty quickly, is that there's a lot to learn. grow with google is here to help you with turning ideas into action. putting your business on the map, connecting with customers, and getting the skills to use new tools. so, in case you're looking, we've put all the ways we can help in one place. free training, tools, and small business resources are now available at google.com/grow
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the medicine has progressed right alongside it.at trying to make mns en my more affordable is important, but if washington isn'careful we might leave innovation behind. let's fix the system the right way. innovation is hope, and the last thing you wanpeto lose in life is ho. welcome back. if you're wondering why tom the r is known as impeachment candidate, it's probably because of moments like this. >> that's why i'm asking speaker pelosi to cancel summer vacation
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and conduct daily public oversightarings to hold trump accountable for his crimes, corruption and racism. >> but he will tell you he's not running on bimpeachment,ut to restore government to the american people. because of the late entry, he won't be among those who d deba inroit this week, but he's joining me from san francisco. welcome back to "meet the press." >> chuck, nice to be here. >> iis not lost on me that you're actually a constituent of nancy pelosi's. and you have ru these ads directly talking to nancy pelosi. on impeachment. yet, as you know, the democrats are not there yet. why do you believe they're making a mistake? >> well, chuck, i'd like to point ou the basic point which is this is the most corrupt president in american history and for almost two yearssa i ha bring the case to the american people.
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we have over 8 million people need to impeachment has over 8 million people who signed a petition to have him be impeached. ithave said it's absolutely important to make appen fast. and if you look at -- >> not too late? >> we have only had two hearings. we had one, michael cohen and now mueller. cheduled to be out over six weeks so we'll bo in the middle of september and we have had two hearings so the american peoplcan hear the truth. i'm saying do the right thing >> why do you think you have been unable to convince speaker pelosi to change her mind on in? >> well, i think that's a question you should be asking her, chuck but i think the way that see this is it will be good politics to tell the truth, protect the constitution and protect the american people. and that is what i have been trying toall for and that's
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why i have been trying to marshal the american voice with a petition to say this is actually why we haveme broken gove. it's a very simple fact that we have the most corrupt president in history, has not led to actual action inside washington. in fact, has led to an awful lot of conversation about political tactics and political impacts. whereas in fact this should have happened long ago. >> i want to get you to react to that side of the argument, that nancy pe and other allies of her make. maureen dowd this morning in "the new york times" she writes the following. you can argue that impeachment morally is the right thing to do but you have to recognize thato histally and politically it's not the right thing to do. the attempt to impeach trump is the rare cases in which obviously justified is obviously stupid. your reaction? >> okay, i couldn't disagree more, chuck. what we're seeing in 'r20, what
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wegoing to see and what we saw in 2018 is a basic question which is we have a broken government. how are we going to go to the american people and say this government is going to work again? so the idea that not telling the truth, not dealing with what maureen dowd calls an obvious constitutional and moral truth, avoiding that is somehow going to inspire people to vote. th year, i think this is the key point. 80% of americans think this government has been purchased by corporations and does not work for them. in 2020, the question is going to be how many americans believe in this system enough to show up at the polls? what we saw in 2018 was people keep talking about win ng the people in the middle, chuck. what we believe in is going to the vast tens of millions of americans who don't vote because they don't believe in the system.
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and say to them, this system can work again for you. that's what i have been trying to do as athoutsider. bon terms of impeachment but for ten years to say this system can work again and the only way to do that in my opinion is tol tehe hard truths, is to be straightforward and not to be so careful and nd tactical, but rather to be trustworthy. look, we have done the largest youth voter mobilization in history. an organization i started in 2018. >> right. >> w asked hundreds of thousands of people under the age of 30 why they didn't vote. and what they said to us every me was the system doesn't work. neither party tells the truth. they don't deal with my issues that's why they don't vote. >> what is it abt -- what did you see in the democratic debates the first round of them that told you i need to get in because what i'm advocating is
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not being advocated? do you believe that of these 20 candidates you -- mean, a lot of democrats thought it was a bit head scratching that you decided to change your mind and get in. not believing there's really room for you anymore in this race. what made you get in? what's missing? >> well, actually, chuck it's actually what i have been saying. which is this. thbedemocratic debates have about policy issues and important, substantial nuances and differences in the policies. but what is not in thosete deba and what is not in this campaign, not your policy but how the heck is that going to happen in the real world? how the heck are we going to get a green new deal or a substantial health care and this is not a question of what, but a question of how. we will have to break the corporate stranglehold on the democracy. we have to push the powerto bac
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he people. >> can you be credible -- >> i have -- absolutely. >> can you do that by being a billionaire? as you know, elizabeth warren lumps billionaires and corporations into the same buck >> you know, chuck, i have been doing this for ten years eaccessfully. for ten y at the state level i have been running propositions against companies, oil companies d tobacco companies and winning and i referred to the largest youth voter mobilization in history. if we're going to reform the system, break this corporate stranglehold i believe it will take an outsider whoit has done and done it successfully for ten years not someone from inside the beltway. but someone who will bring fresh energy to that problem and that's who i am. >> tom steyer, you got up early for us this morning, so i appreciate that. you have shown your fresh energy. be safe on the trail. thank you for coming on.
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we are back. data download time. 20 presidential hopefuls will meet this week. and the democratic front joe biden kicked off the campaign if philadelphia. michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, sound familiar? resident trump captured the three states along with the 306 electoral votes in 2016 andwae carried over the finish line by those three states, msihigan, wisconn and pennsylvania. three states that democrats had won in every election going back to 1992. but the margins for trump were as razor thin as they could be. 78,000 votes combined in all three states. in pennsylvania he won by 0044,0 votes and in wisconsin, nearly
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23,000 votes and in michigan, less than 11,000 tes. and there might be a reason why trump won. turnout in the big urban counties which often produce big margins for democrats did not keep one counties in the rest of those three states. wayne county, michigan, the home of detroit produced 4% fewer votes in 2016 than it did in 2012. while the rest of the state produced 3% more votes. milwaukee produced 12% fewer votes and the rest of wisconsin saw a much smaller decline in turnout, just two points. in philadelphia, they actually produced 3% more votes in 2016 than they did in 2012. but the rest of the state pruced 8% more votes. so the democrats' goal is obvious. pump up turnout in the big cities. can they do it? the republicans know the landscape, won't they try to do the same in rural areas? and could republicans also use social media to encourage urban voters to stay hom up to now. helped as the russianse?
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back now with end game and as we teased it's debate week. the second debate week. a big moment for joe biden. terry mcauliffe, i want to put some polls from fox news. general election match-ups here. and joe biden ten points and en in descending orders, sanders, warren and harris. check out the president's numbers, by the way. they don't budge. they really don't budge. it's the range on the democratic side is a much wider one. 40 to harris, 49 to biden.
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but the big picture here, terry, is that joe biden's standing basically is back to exactly where it was the day before the first debates. >> that's right. >> why is that? >> most people think he has the best shot of beating donald trumth and that is biggest issue as we go forward. democrats want to beat trump anl they're going to coalesce. he has to have a good debate. it wasn't his strongest performance in first debate and he has to show he can be on if stage when donald trumstarts to hurl all the insults at him. >> how devastating would a second performance -- look i'm stuff, howe, all that much would that hurt his candidacy? >> it would hurt because there's a lot of expectations on this debate. i don't want to dbate to be about the past, what happened 40 years ago. he has to put a vision out for where we do from here. from all the candidates i want nto hear more o k-12, cyber security and workforce development. we can't as democrats spend all of our time relitigating the past. we have to go forward. and biden has to show he can
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lead taking this country forward. >> you know, it's july of '19 and yet only five candidates of the 20 who have made it to the next round wtever the next round is. there's going to be 15 desperados over there. >> yeah. >> what is that going to be ke? >> like a free-for-all. it will be interesting to see just how much they come and who they target. whether they -- these people, -- people who are polling >> one or ze. >> whether they go after biden or whether they go after elizabeth warren who is, you know, the presumed other big person on the ticket. it's funnyot we are talking about bernie sanders as much anymore. what's going on there? >> bernie sanders andrrelizabet wa will have their open night. >> yes. >> they basically -- no offense to the other eight but that will be seen as the -- does bernie sanders attack elizad th warren? an he does, how does he do it? you know? we know she's not. sheed doesn't ne to. he kind of does.
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>> you mentioned this -- it's really interesting because if you think of who is debating since the debate and mixing it up, biden, booker, harris, sanders. wh not in this mix? warren. she's done a very good job of staying above the fray, she is all about the policy and the issues and staying out of it. let it be soon as a food figem between th >> she caught another break by not being with biden. that's interesting. >> yes. >> rich lowry, the c onendidate what employ nat attack biden is kamala harris this time. >> why would she mess it up by potentially not having -- >>ou don't want to run the same play twice. >> so the fox poll what's notable is you would think nothing happened the last two months. but even though that speaks to stay sis, there's fluidity in this race and someone will catch fire. maybe it's one of the top tier candidates or someone we're discounting. >> i was going to say -- it feels like we're already sitting on a biden, harris, warren,
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sanders, buttigieg and then everybody else. terry,nybody we should not be overlooking other than those five at this point? >> listen, pay attention to the governors. >> they haven't had -- why can't they get traction? governments haven't gotten haction. >> t haven't. they're ceos, they have to clean the roads, balance budgetser, no offense to senators and congress, but governors have to deliver every single day. but a you have barr hearing or a kavanaugh hearing, they're in front of tens of millions of people. when i was governor you were not calling me, chuck, asking me about, you know, my thoughts on i-66 and my road work. >> we would call you about national party leader stuff somemes, but you're right. >> it doesn't get you the exposure and it's hard. they're the ones that -- they're the ceos. listen, i was the chairman, i hearted these debates in 2003. we didn't have tbefore. i started the party debates to
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give everybody a shot to get on thstage and make your case and they're all televised and there could be abreakout moment. c but there was a breakout moment from juliantro if last debate and we haven't heard anything else. >> it helped his fund-raising for a week. >> look at butigieg, he had a big breakout moment in terms of fund raising. i p wonderple look at the south bend mayor, like him, impres ve. but as president of the united states -- >> he's in the warren/sanders night. it will be interesting if im can make an ession. thank you for guys for watching. we'll be back next week, i promise. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."
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as soon as we tried to come out of the trailer, there were more rounds fired. so we went right back into the trailer and we stayed there unl it absolutely stopped. once it stopped again, we get out of theer trail i go outside of the trailer and there was a guy standing there, one of the vendors, and said, ma'am, you have a 4-year-old baby, the girl right there a please turn around don't let her see this >> horror in california, a day of fun at a food festival shattered by a mass shooting three people have been killed, including a 6-year-old one suspect is dead, and 15 more

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