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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  December 31, 2021 12:30pm-1:01pm EST

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oh, now gifts. no, don't eddie best prepare your children for the brave new world. i remember, diversity is not at i o is no longer an appropriate costume. this is appropriation, zoological appropriation offensive to the dia, community. mm hm. and obviously sandra. new to be cancelled. i because he is a why his gender male who amuses mrs. claus discriminates against children based on behavior. whereas red, which is a communist color, makes children sit on his lap, makes people destroy trees and exploit cells. so sorry kid center is not coming to town anymore. i follow these instructions,
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stick to the spirit of christmas. you decide. i ah, with me. hello and welcome to well to part a russian outage has it that one can take the girl out of the village, but never the village out of the girl. the star gets even more complicated when the girl grows into the states. woman and the village into one of the world's most entitled countries was like to acquire russian citizenship after the life of public
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service to the united states of america. to discuss it, i am now joined by suzanne massey, former adviser to president ronald reagan on russian affairs matter, massive. great to see it's a big honor, big privilege for me to talk to you. thank you very much for inviting me. we are recording this conversation on the eve of our new year, and i'm sure him to come and bring some novelty into your life. because as far as i know you're about to receive a russian passport. yes, but i have only one reason. i white book, i am a writer, i've written 7 boats. 5 of them are about russia. one of the things i was wanting to do, and it's the only reason this is happening is because i wanted to be able to write my next book, which i am working on right now here. and not have to wait and in and out. the could be able to come in easily stay as long as i needed to,
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to do my work and go out. and that is why i have a russian fresh boy. i call it a russian passport because i am a switch citizen. i am an american citizen, and i am very happy to join that chill russian. so you describe yourself as a writer, but i'm sure you're being very humble here because you're not just a writer, you're a person who's done a lot for the bilateral relationship between our countries. even though you did it in your private citizens capacity. don't you think that this decision of yours to require the russian passports, for whatever reasons, even for the reasons of convenience, will long produce some uproar in your own country? it definitely will not, because i have informed the americans from the beginning. i don't lose my american cities if i happened to be the daughter of a diplomatic swiss family. i was moines in new york because my father was beginning
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his career in united states as a swiss says, as was diplomat, i have all my relatives in switzerland, french was my 1st language. i studied in friends. i absolutely consider myself as citizen of many countries and of the world. i would like to be. well, as you just said, you were born in the united states to the family of us was diplomat. you started in this or born. so i assume you have been pretty cosmopolitan throughout your entire life, but even such, your worldly person as you should have, i think, would have a notion of home. what does home mean to you and where is it not just geographically, but let's say so fully. we today kind of you to ask my home my, my actual living place happens to be in the state of maine, which is as you will know, the,
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the state closest to canada in the united states. it is a fishing town. and on the atlantic ocean, i have been there since 6 years old. when i would go there in the summers. now i have a house there which is a copy of pushkin's house in the either square. i billed it that way. we, my heart o. m is in petersburg. i began in petersburg, i love petersburg. i have a very small apartment in petersburg. and that is where i work. and that is now are an american applying for arm. russian citizenship is still quite a rarity this days. i don't have the most recent stats, but in 202148 americans received the russian passport, which is still only a fraction of the russians are applying for the american citizen. i'm sure there is . what do you think russia could no more or perhaps do better in order to attract
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people like yourself? the 1st thing is my position has remain the same all these many years. i have been very fortunate to know as many russians who have afforded their friendship for their help and help in my work as well. but i also, of course, have many friends in america. i'm american citizen, they, i love americans and i think the 2 peoples are very suited to each other. that is my personal view. and my personal view is that, well, it is more important in my view, important than ever that fit, that you are the united states and russia develop a constructive relationship. because i think if we can do that and i'm hoping we can, it would be better for the whole world. now i think some of your life experience could contribute to that because i, i discerned, and peter,
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you were instrumental to humanizing the relationship between our 2 countries. but let's start from the beginning because it is, you written many books, but i think your own la storia really reads like a novel. you 1st came to russia, looking for more information about him ophelia, a red blood condition that i think your son and the, the son of the last russians are well, yes, they did do share there, but hemisphere in him of figures pretty rare. usually it is a pass down in families, but every country has a certain number of hemophilia who are born for no reason at all. i just, i phone want to say scientifically, it's a root. who equipped with press of a never say the right word, wrist gene. in other words or same affiliates should be dead, but they're not. they keep appearing occasionally in every country. well,
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as it turned out, i have been the get one to, but it is very rare. it, i mean, rich considering and for me in my swiss family, we had, i had 22 male 1st cousins. impossible. and i was dentist to be as fun, but they go a spontaneous a case. and that's what i as far as i understand, brought you to leningrad back in the late 19 sixty's. now i think by any account, a young american lady appearing in same period work or aligning rather that time to do research on hemophilia is i wasn't very near the phone, wasn't doing any, were children hemophilia? there was nothing to learn here at all. we came because my husband and i are writers and we did what we did was write a book about the him ophelia and its effects on of course zealous char and his
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wife, alexandra. so we were coming for one reason only, which was to see for the 1st time the capital word 1st happened. at that time, there was nobody in petersburg, it was a dark city, and there were no cancels, there was nothing. and so we arrived and we were allowed exactly 3 days by the government of because we were individual travelers and we arrived there or i had never been nurse her. i, we were, i was planning to do all my work. since i speak french and i wrote french better than english at a time. and i went to universities in paris and i thought, and i got a very large scholarship from the french government to, to go to a very well, you know,
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at the sanctuary particular about their language at university. so i thought my life was going to be influence always. and then i came for the 1st time to russia to see fishes for i had never been here. i didn't know anybody, but i will tell you that when i got off the plane, i sniffed the air and i said, i like it. now i don't know why i said that, but that's my 1st reaction. i like it. well, when i looked at the cathedral, i said the same thing. i like it. then i said to myself, somebody will find me. well, somebody did. a poet found me in a palace and that led me to all the poets and r is, let me ask you about that because i know that you met many of the russian dissident writers personally. and i, i'm sure you know how much they are suffering from either being in exile after they
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immigrated to the united states or being ostracized here at home. now, as you said, times at different now you don't have to give up your american citizenship. you don't have to limit yourself in any way, but i wonder if in a way, you're also living out with a bit of a dissident. i fade because receiving a russian citizenship at this period. historic parent is a bit scandalous. i know you want to downplay if you don't see anything political to it, but it's still, there's still an open question about how it's going to be received given especially i have announced that i have told our counsel everybody knows this is not a secret. and everybody knows why, and everybody knows also that all my work, i mean my writing and everything is taken place in the last years here. and why is that? because my goal is always to try to explain in russia better than
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many americans know it. i don't mean better could, but simply more completely than they do and that's what i did. and that's why i wrote the books i've written because americans, alas, there are many americans who don't know much about you and just don't know you. and i think that's a great loss for those people myself. i try to re educate them a little bit. now you're being very humble about your legacy, but you are not only a writer. you also advised the reagan administration in your private citizens capacity, which is outstanding because as far as i understand, you didn't actually get paid for that. i didn't want to get paid for it because i, i happened to be swiss and this was have a good saying, whoever pays also decides the tune. well, i'm independent and i am really independent. and so i didn't want any
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limitation or any money from anybody. well, that's very commendable, but i'm wondering whether, you know, an american lady who has traveled down to the soviet union, who has written pretty warmly about that country as you did here. where are you received with any suspicion in america? no, i think i'm sure you know, this is a matter of a the government. i think there are some parallels right here. the government is not the people. what has always interested me, most in russia has been the not the ordinary people. i mean, i met them 1st. if i wished the poets they, i knew exactly. nobody knew them then at the time now, right now they are quite famous. i did do. the 1st spoke about the put, which of leningrad is called the living mirror. they are 5 there and believe me,
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it was not me who killed them. it was the best friend of martha. so i and that's why i tell you, i'm very in, you know, influenced by that city. but i knew them as a marathon act in march of this year. there is going to be a forum at the university of st. petersburg about these poet who at the time were unknown and but that it's true. they were unknown. they. but i think no one is better to introduce you to a city than a poet. that's absolutely true as since i was a resident of saint petersburg, i absolutely out as to that matter master, we have to take a very short break right now so that you can get a sip of water and thank you login on some advertising, but we will be back in just a few moments statement. ah,
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join me every person on the alex, simon, sean, obviously the death of the world politics. small business, financial business. i'll see you then. ah mm hm. well, come back to wells far. smith's is on massy. former advisors, your president, ronald reagan, on the russian affairs. matter. massey, you said before the break with you were primarily interested in, in the people to people, exchanges and developing ties between the people. but let's talk about politics
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a little bit, the politics of your time, because you managed to inspire one of the most powerful people on the planet at the time. i'm talking about ronald reagan and i read somewhere that you got interested in your expertise after reading your book land of the firebird, the beauty of old russia, and i think to a russian, it's a very touching book because it's full of deep understanding and empathy for russia's historic plight, but i know that for example, i was under soldier, needs and had doubts whether it's going to be well received in the united wrote any letter, beautiful letter about it. he did, i had there they. i wept when i got it from him. i really did so beautiful letter and one of my most precious possessions. but did he doubt i read that? he had doubts that the americans, the american public would receive these book because of the british in this book.
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well, because of this sympathy that you know, it was here that he told me very nicely, and he was all in russian. but he said that he thought that the passage of the book might not be like, but did he hoped i would not change my blogger oden, led to the genia to inform owner a ball intention or honorable movement to inform the american public chose for me, is to inform about russia to continue with my a 3rd of information about russia and, and, and about russians. and he said, and that means also of 2 days. and i never forget that, as i told you, the american public and the american forget the american administration of any kind . right now, it's put them oliver, and they're completely different. anyway, so then you say, let's forget the american administration, but i want to focus on the ronald reagan
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a little bit because one of the things that surprised me the most is that a person in his capacity he was the present had the time and the interest to actually read a book about something, i mean it was a feature of the time or off. ah, you're a person lou. a then our press. usually they made an awful lot of fun about him because he was an actor as you know and. and they said it will, they never read anything. this was a pure lie. you have to know as much as i know about the background of ronald reagan. but ron reagan was not able to see when he was a child and he was very near shaded. and he couldn't even see the leaves on the trees. he became a great reader, nancy, his wife told me that he never went to sleep at night without reading now. he was eclectic. reader attracted greeter. he read all kinds of things. now i know he did
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read all my books in the end, i even came after his presidency with nancy to visit fathers that i had written a book about. but he was a you. i know that this is how he was called in america. he was a people version and of course he had hundreds of advisors pulling glee, but he was an actor. he was interested in people, reagan was a man who could talk to anybody. that's amazing. he liked them. and he could actually make anybody feel at ease. right away in one of your interests here earlier interviews you said a, what i thought was a pretty counter intuitive thing that while most politicians are interested in appearances, he was as an actor. as a former actor, he was interested in sort of psyched, a psychological dynamics. what makes people tick? that's true, was it a genuine drive on his point or more of an effort to sort of the,
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to master the art of manipulation? no, i know ronald reagan, which is why he is now as you may know, one of the most popular president ever in a he, 1st of all, he was religious. second, me a very good private sense of believer. secondly, he was totally honest. he really was, he was honest, he didn't think in terms of manipulation. unless you want to say than an actor can manipulate an actor. and it was really very true. he took care very seriously. an actor wants to know how people feel inside about everything. for instance, he was very interest interested in russian humor. and he has been an irishman in the irish. oh yes, have a joke. oh, is he? he began almost every feature of a game with a joke. so he treasured and i would bring some home with me every time i came do it,
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i would bring him. he loved especially as he said, the jokes it rose and sell about themselves. it was one he loved so much that he repeated it so many times this day. everywhere he was, he repeated this joke. he absolutely loved jokes. i learned a lot from him as far as speaking is concerned. and i spoke, i have lectured to every single state in the united states and 3 military colleges . and when people laugh, they tend to remember what you say. so i and i found that that's really true. you, you get the attention the people immediately when they left. he also knew how to make a compliment. i read somewhere that perhaps, or at your advice i, he, i made a decision to sort of complement the resilience, the strength, the beauty of the russian women. when he was preparing his speech for the soviet
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television and, you know, it's interesting to me as a russian are woman. why do you think that angle was? well, i will tell you why it's very simple. remember, i was the only woman in the administration, o'regan now, before the visit to moscow, the big important visit demonica. a group of the best soviet analysts enemy, was asked to come to the white house to talk. everybody had 3 minutes, 3 minutes. they were all so important these gentlemen, that they had to be seated alphabetically in a v. i was m. now m comes all the way around here. shall you see me sort of stuck in there, m. and then the biggest and most important professor at harvard was you and we're sitting right there. well, when men and these forms get together, they can to use and lose them for a long speech or so then we had 3 minutes. each person, each one of them read
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a longs feet present was going to sleep. i really, really was and when he got to me, i realize i had 3 minutes. so i said, mister president, if i were a put politician, i would say something about russian women. i said they have been so song, they have been so courageous. i and, and he said, i believe you, i know, he said. but he said, when i say that, i always say that we will, we men would be in skins if it weren't for women. and but i get in trouble. he said for that, where he woke up. and yes, he said it 3 times. he kept saying it in the 1st time was even the funniest because he got here. and the 1st journalist asked him, and he said, i want to speak about russian women. and then when finally look for your journalist finally said, well we, i go to, you know,
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he kept saying it. and he said 3 times, he kept saying it all the time that the russian actually took their hands e, they really didn't know what the answer, you know. and, but it was the truth. i mean, as i to say, only the truth, and i knew very well how courageous russian women had been blocked you to you from petersburg. anybody who's ever known anything about the $900.00 days knows about women and what they did out the russian women. i believe deeper in my hard that if it were the russian women that allowed russia to survive. russia is a she, even though we have a lot of our sort of protect her mentality among our men. and perhaps because of that, we have that protector mentality among our leaders. but generally speaking, russia has survived on the backs of the women. i could not agree with you more i. i have had a chance to see it. i have very close friends in petersburg who are very if 1 may
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say the word ordinary, it's not that they're ordinary. they are just quiet. and i must say, i know that, and that's why i said it. cause i said, when i got there, mister president, had i, if i were person i said, i'd like to talk about a very different at the if i were. and i will talk about that and that's when he said, yes, i agree, but we get, i get the trouble for that. oh, it does say that the easy he did, he was, he had that genius of knowing and it really was a genius. he was sensitive to people and anybody could talk to him. absolutely. anybody in here. when he asked her, he at suggested that gilbert took a look at the kremlin. so he asked, go, rachel, a garage over as him up, how do you, i think women knew reagan said, he said,
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i like anything that's older than me. i'm sure even though you're trying to play down your role, i, you contributed to that you've been, are widely credited for helping to build bridges between our countries and our cultures. and i think it wasn't easy back at the time because of the many fierce, legitimate tiers and the stereotypes maintained in part because of the existence of the iron curtain. why do you think those fears and stereotypes prevail till this day if not large, despite the fact that we have technology and until recently we had open borders. we had 3. i know, you know, gladly. i watched this very carefully. i'm very interested. listen, i had my trouble with borders here at many. and so i know what it looks like. and i tell you when i 1st got here, guess what the 1st question was? do you have pornography or the bible? well, you know, to look like somebody who with center room to russia,
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we're in anyway. it's not the case also. ah, well, i can only tell you that what i did, i, i know what i did do, and that was a reagan was interested in learning. and so i answered his questions, i did answer every question and, and as he was a reader, which not many people know, but he really read and when he started to read. so did nancy. so they were both reading about russia, not just me, not just my books, but everything and that is a good thing. and it did. i'm a little bit proud of that reagan when he 1st came. he he only did it once and i'm happy to tell you he never did it again when he met me. when he said there was, it was the core of all evil. you know that terrible thing at the it was at the of angelica's,
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she knew anything about the evangelicals. do you know how they feel about cummins? but in any case, he did say that and i know people here remember it, but i'm happy to say he never used it again, and i'm happy for that and thank you for that matter. mess. we have to leave it there, but i hope that we can get more cultural ambassadors like yourself because party countries are definitely in benito, for humanizing in each other in each other's eyes. and well, is neither your very human you tremendously when and i think it's a wonderful thing that you can help americans with for many reasons. but honestly you are, and i believe that we need each other more than ever now that just my feeling. but what i see there and where i see here, i really do, i think you can bring an enormous amount and i'm not talking about weapons and all that it, it really,
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it's important that you and we are able to exchange our different talent. madam, as we have to live there, thank you very much for your work in. thank you. i'm very glad to meet you and thank you for watching up to syrian again next week on well, the part ah, ah, with mm. with
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a ah headline. this new year's eve from moscow, joe biden promise, is that the u. s. vote. deploy offensive strike weapons in ukraine during an hour long conversation with me while from 10 shouldn't over nato to the energy crisis uncovered. we talked to the hungarian foreign minister about some of the defining moments of 2021 and told me to say in 2022 with a bang germans band from buying fireworks for a 2nd year. because a cobit flock, the pole, to keep the party going with . hello there. welcome to ortiz world music, 9 for moscow. with me, kevin, how it 1st thing with some of the holiday spirit in mind. the russian than us
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