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tv   Worlds Apart  RT  December 31, 2021 6:30am-7:01am EST

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kids center is not coming to town anymore. i follow these instructions. stick to the spirit of christmas. you decide. ah ah, with 2021 rapidly coming to an end to this time for some reflection. what will we remember about this year? how did our lives change? also, we look forward to the new year. what does 2022 have in store for us? will we be living in interesting times with
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with me. hello and welcome to well to part irrationality hazard. that one can take the girl out of the village, but never the village out of the girl. the star gets even more complicated when the girl grows into the states woman and the village into one of the world's most entitled countries. what it's like to acquire russian citizenship after the life of public service to the united states for america. to discuss that i am now joined by suzanne massey for my adviser to president ronald reagan on russian affairs. madame acids greater sir, it's a big on our big privilege for me to talk to you. thank you lou. much for inviting me. we are recording this conversation on the eve of by here, and i'm sure it's
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a bring some novelty into your life because as far as i know you're about to receive a russian passport. yes. but i have only one reason. i re book. i am a writer, i've written 7 bolt. 5 of them are about russia. one of the things i was wanting to do, and it's the only reason this is happening, is because i wanted to be able to write my next book, which i'm working on right now. here and not have to wait in, in an hour that could be able to come in easily stay as long as i needed to, to do my work and go out. and that is why i have a russian fresh boy, i call it a russian passport because i am a swiss citizen. i am an american citizen, and i am very happy to join that chil russian. so you describe yourself as a writer, but i'm sure you're being very humble here because you're not just
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a writer, you're a person who's done a lot for the bilateral relationship between our countries. even though you did it in your private citizens capacity. don't you think that this decision of yours to acquire the russian passports, for whatever reasons, even for the reasons of convenience, will long produce some uproar in our own country? it definitely will not because i had informed the americans from the beginning. i don't lose my american citizenship. i happen to be the daughter of a diplomatic swiss family. i was born in new york because my father was beginning. his career in unit is said as a swiss says, as was diplomat. i have all my relatives in switzerland, french was my 1st language. i studied in france. i absolutely consider myself as citizen of many countries and of the world. we'd like to be. well,
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as you just said, you were born in the united states to the family of us was diplomat. you started in this or born, so i assume you've been pretty cosmopolitan throughout your entire life. but even such, your worldly person as you should have, i think, would have a notion of home. what does home mean to you, and where is it not just geographically, but let's say so fully. we take kind of, you to that my, my, my actual living place happens to be in the state of maine, which is, as you know, the, the state closest to canada in the united states. it is a fishing town that on the atlantic ocean, i have been there since 6 years old when i would go there in the summers. now i have a house there, which is a copy of pushkin's owes in the either square. i billed it that way. we my heart, o. m is in petersburg. i began in petersburg. i love
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petersburg. i have a very small apartment in petersburg and that is where i work. and that's it. now are an american applying for arm. russian citizenship is still quite a rarity this days. i don't have the most recent stats, but in 202148 americans received the russian passport, which is still only a fraction of the russians are applying for the american citizen. i'm sure there is . what do you think russia could do more or perhaps do better in order to attract people like yourself? the 1st thing is my position has remain the same all these many years. i have been very fortunate to know as many russians who have afforded their friendship for their help and help in my work as well. but i also, of course, have many friends in america. american is in a love americans,
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and i think the 2 peoples are very suited to each other. that is my personal view. and my personal view is that, well, it is more important in my view, important than ever that fit there you are, the united states and russia develop a constructive relationship because i think if we can do that and i'm hoping we can, it would be better for the whole world now i think some of your life experience could contribute to that because are i discerned, and peter, if you were instrumental to humanizing the relationship between our 2 countries. but let's start from the beginning because it is written many books, but i think you're all la storia really reads like a novel. you 1st came to russia, looking for more information about him ophelia, a rare blood condition that i think your son and the son of the last russians are,
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will. yes, they did new share there, but he will figure in you, he, him, affiliate. pretty rare. usually it is a pass down in families, but every country has a certain number of hemophilia who are born for no reason at all. i just, i found one to say scientifically, it's a rook or equip repressive. i never say though word reached gena. in other words, or same ophelia should be dead, but they're not. they keep reappearing occasionally in every country. well, as it turned out, i happen to get one to, but it is very rare it, i mean, rich considering and for me in my swiss family, we had, i had 22 male 1st cousins. impossible. and i was dentist to be a spot where they go spontaneous in a case. and that's
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a what i as far as i understand, brought you to leningrad back in the late 19 sixty's. now i think by any account, a young american lady appearing in same period were gone, aligning rather that time to do research on hemophilia is i wasn't very near the phone, wasn't doing any, were children hemophilia? there was nothing to learn here at all. we came because my husband and i are writers and we did what we did was write a book about the him ophelia and its effects on of course zealous char and his wife, alexandra. so we were coming for one reason only, which was to see for the 1st time the capital word 1st happened. at that time, there was nobody in petersburg, it was a dark city, and there were no cancels, there was nothing. and so we arrived and we were allowed exactly 3 days
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by the government of because we were individual travelers. and we arrived there i, i had never been nourish her and i, we were, i was planning to do all my work since as feed french. and i wrote french better than english at a time. and i went to universities in paris, and i thought, and i got a very large scholarship from the french government to, to go, which will very well ill at the french are very particular about their language. at either or city. so i thought my life was going to be influence always. and then i came for the 1st time to russia to see fitness for i had never been here. i didn't know anybody, but i will tell you that when i got off the plane, i sniffed the there and i said,
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i like it. now i don't know why i said that, but that's my 1st reaction. i like it. well, when i looked at the cathedral, i said the same thing. i like it. then i said to myself, somebody will find me. well, somebody did. a poet found me in a palace and that led me to all the poets and r is, let me ask you about that because i know that you met many of the russian dissident writers personally. and i am sure you know how much they are suffering from either being in exile after they immigrated to the united states or being ostracized here at home. now, as you said times at different now you don't have to give up your american citizenship. you don't have to limit yourself in any way, but i wonder if in a way, you're also living out a bit of a dissident. i fade because receiving a russian citizenship at this period, he sort of parent is
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a bit scandal. as i know you want to down play, if you don't see anything political to it, but it's still there is still an open question about how it's going to be received given especially i have announced that i have told our com to let everybody know is this is not a secret and everybody knows why. and everybody knows also that all my work, i mean my writing and everything is taken place in the last years here. and why is that? because my goal is always to try to explain russia better than many americans know it. i don't mean better could, but simply more completely than they do. and that's what i did. and that's why i wrote the books i've written because americans, alas, there are many americans who don't know much about you and just don't know you. and i think that's a great loss for the is people myself. i try to re educate them
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a little bit. now you are being very humble about your legacy, but you are not only a writer. you also advised that the reagan administration in your private citizens capacity, which is outstanding because as far as i understand, you didn't actually get paid for that. i didn't want to get paid for it because i, i happened to be swiss and this was have a good saying, whoever pays also decides the june. well, i'm independent and i am really independent. and so i didn't want any limitation or any money from anybody. well, that's very commendable, but i'm wondering whether, you know, an american lady who has traveled down to the soviet union, who has written pretty warmly about that country as you did. yeah. where are you received with any suspicion in america? no, i think i'm sure you know, this is a matter of
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a the government. i think there are some parallels right here. the government is not the people. what has always interested me most in russia has been, than i wrote that ordinary people. i mean, i met them 1st and i wished the poet they, i knew exactly. nobody knew them then at the time now, right now they are quite famous. i did do. the 1st spoke about the put, which of leningrad is called the living there. they are 5 there and believe me, it was not me who killed them. it was the best friend of martha. so i and that's why i tell you, i'm very in, you know, influenced by that city. but i knew them as a matter of fact, in march of this year, there is going to be a forum at the university of st. petersburg about these board. so as to time were
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unknown event that it should, they were unknown. they but i think no one is better to introduce you to a city than a poet. that's absolutely true. as you know, as a resident of saint petersburg, i absolutely had tested that matter master. we have to take a very short break right now so that you can get a sip of water. thank you. yeah, we get on some advertising, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah mm mm o f b new year, special kaiser report with the one and only journal salenti or it's data of the trends forecast then know stuff
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too old is driven daydreamer shaped by thinkers and those with there's things we dare to ask a welcome back to well to part with is on mass, a former adviser to president ronald reagan on the russian affairs matter. massey, you said before the breaker, you were primarily interested in,
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in the people to people, exchanges and developing ties between the people. but let's talk about politics a little bit, the politics of your time, because you managed to inspire one of the most powerful people on the planet at that time. i'm talking about ronald reagan and i read somewhere that he got interested in your expertise after reading your book land of the firebird, the beauty of old russia, and i think to a russian, it's a very touching book because it's full of deep understanding and empathy for russia's historic plight, but i know that for example, i was under soldier, needs and had doubts whether it's going to be well received in the united wrote any letter, beautiful leather about it. he did, i have there they, i wept when i got it from him. i really did so beautiful leather and one of my most precious possessions. but did he doubt i read that? he had doubts that the americans,
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the american public would receive this book because of the rest of this book. well, because of the sympathy of that, you know, it was it that he told me very nicely and he was all in russian. but he said that he thought that the passage of the book might not be lighter, but that he hoped i would not change my blogger, odin. i ad vision to inform honorable intentional honorable movement to inform. the american public jewel for me, is to inform about russia to continue with my a 3rd of information about russia and, and, and about russians. and he said, and that means also of today's, and i never forget her, as i told you, the american public and the american forget the american administration of any kind . right now, let's put them out. and they were completely different. anyway,
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if you say, let's forget the american administration, but i want to focus on the ronald reagan a little bit because one of the things that surprised me the most is that a person in his capacity he was the present had the time and the interest to actually read a book about something, i mean it wasn't the feature of the time or offer you a hers. lu i then are pres, usually they made an awful lot of fun about him because he was an actor as you know and, and they said it will. they never read anything. this was a pure lie. you have to know as much as i know about the background around oregon. but ronald reagan was not able to see when he was a child. and he was very near shy. and he couldn't even see the leaves on the trees . he became a great reader, nancy, his wife told me that he never went to sleep at night without reading now. he was
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eclectic. reader attracted greeter. he read all kinds of things. now i know he did read all my votes. in the end, i even came after his presidency with nancy to visit fathers that i had written a book about. but he was a you, i know that this is how he was called in america. he was a people 1st. and of course, he had hundreds of advisors politically, but he was an actor. he was interested in people, reagan was a man who could talk to anybody. that's amazing. he, he liked them and he could actually make anybody feel at ease right away in one of your interests here. earlier interviews you said a, what i thought was a pretty counter intuitive thing that while most politicians are interested in appearances, he was as an actor. as a former actor, he was interested in sort of psyched, a psychological dynamics. what makes people tick?
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that's true, was it a genuine drive on his part or more of an effort to sort of the, to master the art of manipulation? no, i know around reagan, which is why he is now as you may know, one of the most popular president ever in the he, 1st of all, he was religious. second, me a very good private since the believer. secondly, he was totally honest. he really was, he was honest, he didn't think in terms of manipulation unless you want to say than an actor can manipulate a lecture. and it was really very true. he took care very seriously. and actor wants to know how people feel inside about everything. for instance, he was very interest interested in russian humor. and he has been an irishman in the irish. oh is have a joke. oh, is he?
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he began almost every feature of a game with a joke. so his treasure and i would bring some home with me every time i came do it, i would bring him. he loved especially as he said the jokes at rose and sell about themselves. it was one he loved so much that he repeated it so many times. this day . everywhere he was, he repeated this joke. he absolutely loved jokes. i learned a lot from him and for his speaking his concern and i spoke, i have lectured to every single state in the united states and 3 military colleges . and when people laugh, they tend to remember what you say. so i and i found that that's really true. you it, you get the attention of people immediately when they laugh. he also knew how to make a compliment. i read somewhere that perhaps, or at your advice i, he, i made a decision to sort of complement the resilience, the strength,
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the beauty of the russian women. when i, he was preparing his speech for the soviet television. and, you know, it's interesting to me as a russian are woman. why do you think that angle was? well, i will tell you why it's very simple. remember, i was the only woman in the administration of maria now before the visit to moscow. the big important visit to monica, a group of the best soviet analysts enemy, was asked to come to the white house to talk. everybody had 3 minutes, 3 minutes. they were all so important these gentlemen, that they had to be seated it alphabetically in a v. i was m, now m comes all the way around here. so you see me, so stuck in there, m. and then the biggest and most important professor at harvard, was you and we're sitting right there. well, when men and these forms get together,
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they can to use and lose them for a long speech or so then we had 3 minutes. each person, each one of them read a long speech present was going to sleep. i really, really was and when he got to me, i realize i had 3 minutes. so i said mister president, if i were a put politician, i would say something about russian women. i said they have been so strong. they have been so courageous. i and and he said, i believe you, i know he said, but he said when i say that, i always say that we will, we men would be in skins if it weren't for women. and but i get in trouble. he said for that, where he woke up, and yes, he said it 3 times. he kept saying it in the 1st time was even the funniest because he got here. and the 1st journalist asked him, and he said, i want to speak of
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a russian women. and then when finally look for your journalist finally said, oh we, i go to, you know, he kept saying it. and he said 3 times he kept saying it all the time that the russian and actually took their turns e. they really didn't know what, how the answer, you know, and, but it was the truth. i mean, i like to say only the truth and i knew very well how courageous russian women had been blocked you to you from petersburg. anybody who's ever known anything about the $900.00 days knows about women and what they did out the russian women. i believe deeper. my hard that if it were the russian women that allowed russia to survive. russia is a she, even though we have a lot of our sort of protector mentality among our men. and perhaps because of that, we have that protector mentality among our leaders. but generally speaking, russia has survived on the backs of the women. i could not agree with you more i. i
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have had a chance to see it. i have very close friends in petersburg who are very if 1 may say the word ordinary, it's not that they're ordinary. they're just quiet. and i must say, i know that, and that's why i said it, cuz i said, when i got there, mr. president and i, if i were person i said i'd like to talk about a very different of the if i were present, i would talk about that. and that's when he said, yes, i agree, but we get, i get the trouble for that. oh, it does say that when you see he did, he was, he had that genius of knowing and it really was a genius. he was sensitive to people and anybody could talk to him. absolutely. anybody in here when he asked her, he suggested that gilbert of a look at the kremlin, so he asked, go rachel, a garbage over as him up,
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how do you or the crewman you? reagan said, he said, i like anything that is older than me. i'm sure even though you're trying to play down your role, i, you contributed to that. you've been a widely credited for helping to build bridges between our countries and our cultures. and i think it wasn't easy back at the time because of the many serious, legitimate tears and the stereotypes maintained in part because of the existence of the iron curtain. why do you think those fears and stereotypes prevail till this day if not flores, despite the fact that we have technology and until recently we had open borders. we had 3. i know you'll gladly, i watch this very carefully. i'm very interested this and i had my trouble with borders here at many. and so i know what it looks like. and i tell you when i 1st got here, guess what the 1st question was? do you have pornography or the bible and the to look like somebody who with center
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here, whom to russia were in any way? that's not the case also. ah, well, i can only tell you that what i did, i, i know what i did do, and that was a reagan was interested in learning. and so i answered his questions. i did, answered every question and, and as he was a reader, which not many people know, but he really read and when he started to read. so did nancy. so they were both reading about russia, not just me now just my books, but everything and that is a good thing. and it did. i'm a little bit proud of that reagan when he 1st came. he it, he only did it once and i'm happy to tell you he never did his again when he met me . when he said there was, it was the core of all evil. you know that terrible thing at the,
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it was at the of angelica's, she knew anything about the evangelicals, you know, how they feel about gummies. but in any case, he did say that and i know people here remember it. but i'm happy to say he never used it again, and i'm happy for that. and thank you for that. not a mess. we have to leave it there, but i hope that we can get more cultural ambassadors like yourself because party countries are definitely in benito. far humanizing it each other in each other's eyes and well is neither your very human you tremendously you win and i think it's a wonderful thing that you can help americans with for many reasons. but honestly, you are, and i believe that we need each other more than ever. now that's just my feeling. but what i see there, and when i see here, i really do, i think you can bring an enormous amount and i'm not talking about weapons and all
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that it, it really, it's important that you and we are able to exchange i different talent. madam, as we have to live there, thank you very much for your work in. thank you, and very glad to meet you. and thank you for watching hope to sara again, next week on well, the part ah ah
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ah, what up stories this our joe biden promises us when to ploy offensive strike weapons in ukraine during an hour long conversation with vladimir close in from the energy crisis to cobra to nato wheat helped the hungarian foreign minister about redefining by means of 2021 and determined to see in 2022 with the bank. germans banned from buying fireworks for a 2nd because it flopped to poland. to keep the part you get a well can you're watching out international, this new year's eve. it's just gone 3 o'clock in the afternoon here in moscow. now with some of the holiday spirit in mind, the russian and us leaders have indicated that relations.


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