tv Going Underground RT December 15, 2021 9:30pm-10:00pm EST
rude and 15000000 of doses of russia's vaccines against covered sputnik v and sputnik light will be produced in china as contracts with 6 chinese firms have been signed and in general, during 2021. the or the amount. the volume of bilateral trade has increased by 31 percent, which is basically it has reached to levels higher than a before the pandemic. so there you have it, it seems both leaders, they well they see i to i and this meeting, this virtual summit seems to have lamented the alliance between moscow and beijing . we heard from politics, professor joseph gregory mahoney and he thinks that russia and china are reacting to us aggression frankly, with the office deal, basically proliferating nuclear weapons to austria, ostensibly against china. with reports. us troops are now in taiwan with biden, undermining strategic ambiguity repeatedly in verbal remarks with ongoing attempts
to rally a new alliance in asia against beijing, with constant provocations in the south china sea, with washington propaganda machine constantly dehumanizing china unfairly accusing of genocide and gross human rights violations. i wouldn't say the u. s. is being careful, i would say rather, that it's being extremely aggressive. we're in a very fraught moment. the pandemic, of course, is made things even more tight. and so i think what we're saying is 2 countries. and the case with russia and china that have a lot of shared teaching interest and finding that close consultation benefits. most of them, i think that they have some shared strategic interest. but i think we see it on, on multiple fronts. i think both of them are tired. the dollar as the global reserve currency. i think they're both tired of this sort of irrational flip flop politics coming out of washington. i think they understand that to move
forward. they need to find a way to transcend the american lead order, and i think that's what they're working to do. that's all for this. our see you in 30 minutes. ah, a with time african retention. he wasn't going underground 8 years ago to day the south sydney's civil war began a conflict seen in the west as the result of ancient tribal rivalries, but of these resentments actually the result of decades. and in some cases, centuries of colonial rule, a new book by one of the greatest living public intellectuals. my word, mom, donnie looked at the roots of religious and ethnic conflict and shows how the
colonial powers that facilitated them for their own gains. and also walk to narrow the mechanisms through which justice and equity can be sought. the book neither settle nor native, the making in on making a permanent minorities is out now and my mood, my money joins me from new york. thank you so much for them. i'm down event coming on, i better start with the fact that over here, people are talking about rescuing those, the collaborating with nato invasions of afghanistan. and there's always he no talk of nuremberg in that case. but you are alone. dissenter on the african union commission into su dawn, tell me how nuremberg emerges is a climax of imperialism, rather than justice after nazi defeats since nearburg rules, we often talk about them on this show following orders is not good nor a book is held up as the greatest achievement that came out of terrible times. post $945.00 nuremberg it said to be the 1st international court.
a richer upheld the principal individual responsibility and upheld this is coming on responsibility in the course of that nuremberg over looked just overlooked but completely sidestepped the political project of the state. and therefore a violence committed by the stake. a state by definition cannot commit crimes because a crime is violation of the law defect. individuals in the states individual states can commit crime. but not the state. if you want to look at state violence or state authorized violence, as opposed to violence by individuals who overstep. sage with horrid, if you want to look at state authorized violence,
you have to go to the politics of it. you have to look at violence as a political and not coming. now if i go to south to that, i want to take it slightly longer view. and the longer you takes us back to sort of the middle of the 1900 century. until the middle of the 1900 century, the british imperial project was what we call the civilizing mission. and you come into the colony, your wife, the state clean, and you civilize them. through the introduction of western law and through western education, you created minority which would look like you talked like not look like you, but top like you think like you and which would be an intermediate in the colonial process. well, that project failed completely with 1857 appraising in india. when the majority
excluded rebuilt, the indian army created by the british mutiny against the british. there was a big debate in the british to establish ment and end the end. the turnaround comes with the thinking over henry may, a handyman says look, you didn't understand in society. what we have to do is to understand it as a historical society and therefore to harness the agency of indians themselves through india, to oppressor, to a french myself. and partly to do with the failure in ireland because you say them the source of it all, all is in england's oldest colony over the 800 years island, where what rewards were given for scalping of irish people. right, right. so to continue the story just just just a minute, more britain then the why is,
is another project which is not the project to civilize the indians, but the project to conserve indian tradition. and this gives it the opportunity to skulk that tradition and to freeze it. and the tradition that button scalds is what it calls religious law, customary law. and it sets it devise is 2 different separate set of customs hinder customary law, muslim customary law, and sets up a chinese war between it. this project then expands with the defeat of britain, in so done the late 19th century and to bring this project to so done. now, the re, costs done as a set of separate race is supposed to call out of an african and then a set of separate tribes tribes with their own tribal homeland, et cetera. so by the time you come to subs,
redone and independent of sell to done so for don, is already being ruled as a separate set of separate tribes. each tribe with its own homeland, each tribe rates, it's customary law, each tribe with this customer. so this is the country that blows open after south 2 guns, independence in 2013, 2011 because each tribe more or less. one quick quick sidebar. since we're talking about the deep historical roots a you, you talk about this idea that i think most people have the arabic zation of, of the world as we knew it. then you have a problem with the way it's been talked about that to falls into your criticisms of the way we have been deceived in our history books. as far as arab conquests influence within societies that worked well. if itemization gives the idea,
did the out of his migrate and occupied, calculated different countries and controlled it, but the items were very tight. so what does our, by zation me out of my zation men, that those who or the local population itself became up? why did they do it? they did this basically as a state building project, and i explore this into done. for example, if you take the case of sudan robes, who came in from egypt to sue, done, these arabs did not remain up, said d. r. a biased sudanese, i robbed, emerge in your state building project around how soon it emerged in the 16th century. and there emerged in the contract between the king on, on the one hand and the merchants in the expanding merchant tongues. and these
merchants declared themselves not oriented to a local civilization, but pro cosmopolitan civilization ups. okay, what we're here to, to why the, the, the reason why these post waterman illusions arise in the, in the history books in a moment. i better get back, i suppose, to the united states because you, you say of paramount importance is the 1st genocide in history. i know surrounding all of this is the d politicization in the history books of genocide. why do you, why do you say that? am i? what? where we got to in nuremberg is actually rooted in the genocide of native americans naziism hitler. they drew on the genocide of native americans. 2 things happened in the years. first was the genocide of native american and then was a solution. the final solution as to what to do with the native americans who
survived. we're going to just quickly give a figure because you put it in the book and people don't often repeat 75000000 people 95 percent of the re columbia population. the final solution comes from abraham lincoln and lincoln is the same time as the emancipation of slaves after the civil war. lincoln generalize is an institution called the reservation. and what the reservation does is it takes each, each indian groom as a tribe. and this tribe draws a circle around it. this is your homeland, and this is a technique of depriving that group of most of the plant confining it to a small part of the land. then it says, here you live according to your custom, your custom is age own and this custom is defined and enforced by your customary
leaders. and these leaders are not elected or anything to oversee this. they create a federal institution. and that, that federal institution is controlled by congress indians in the us or wards of congress. indians in the us do not belong to the indian reservation in india and in the reservation, do not belong to the political entity. we know as the us, when the 1964 civil rights act was passed, it did not apply to indians because they are not a citizen. the reservation indians, especially had to be passed in 1966. but even that advisory act does not come for rights, which the court can enforce its advisory. so the us then, when it confirms citizen to put an indian, it has different degrees of india,
a different degrees of citizens 1st class, 2nd class. so the puerto ricans are a different degree, like that. when naziism, when hitler comes, he, hitler said, coming to your lawyers to see what to do with jewish jews who are citizens of german. the coming to your lawyers looks at the american laws and says, hey, here is the. so we have jews defined as a special category of citizens. it looks at the african american case, the one drop rule, which is that any person with one drop of african blood is considered african in the us. ok, hitler says no, no, we will make it 25 percent. but then hitler takes the notion of the reservation and enclosure, and turns it into the concentration camp. hitler is full of admiration for the
westward movement of the americans and the, the ability to decimate an entire people. so in that context, you can understand why it is so important to de politicize human rights in 2021. today, given this kind of history you delineated in this book, you call you say new liberalism is the handmade of human rights de politicizing everything. but in a way, so did urine berg deeper letter size. everything. nuremberg brought it down to the individual. put the state because for nuremberg to look at the german date would have for november november would have to look at the political projects of naziism. the political project or not to some was to remove minorities from german store in soil and create germany is a pure nation state germans,
which is exactly what the allies were doing. eastern europe, exactly at the time. nuremberg trials were going on. germans were being expelled from all over eastern europe and ethnic states were being created in eastern europe by the allies themselves. you compare the allied camps, dachau and concentration camps. administered by britain, london, and washington. i say to those who compared them, professor, my mood, my money, i'll stop you there. more from one of the greatest living public intellectuals after this break ah, with abundance love falls, particularly when pulse further
a certain political agenda. but polling has a checkered history as of late the last 2 election cycles tell us as much, should we put much stock into polling anymore. if so, then why? well, come back out. silly. a talking justice colonialism in the nation states with professor mahmoud ma'am dani, author of neither settler nor native. is it smart to, to just give a gun on the side by the amusing gal like hamilton, which has been very popular in recent years, manages to, to cover up genocide in a specific way like this, like it does in the musical, i should say, i haven't seen it, and in the popular imagination these ideas are given no avenue. i've seen the musical and yes, it, it to the audience that comes out of that music girl is in a celebratory mode. it, because it treats indicated yes,
we committed crimes the crime of slavery, but we have had the moral courage to face up to it and to deal with it. and we can see it to narrow to progress in the process. the crime that we haven't had the moral courage to even accept to acknowledge is washed out. the audience does not think about, and that's the genocide of the indians. and that's the containment in reservation on the surviving. but what do you think about the fact that as you say in the book graham, she angles they often do kind you appear to be saying to the united states and the exceptionalism and protestant work ethics. these are the reasons you draws, drawing this genocide as being all important in the myths we have about american empire. when i make a slightly larger fame, whether on the left or on in the center or the right,
it is one assumption that was common european. even liberalism acknowledge is one collective identity without any question. and that is the nation. mar, acknowledged box claims. there were historical nations and non historical nation, according to him, historical nations, nations bound to have their own nation state, and non historical nations would not achieve that status. it would live inside nation states, all other nations. so what i'm saying is that politically this division between majority and minority is, is frozen as a permanent division inside nation states which are considered natural entities. and the creation of permanent minority is at the root of extreme violence.
if you look at extend violence to africa, it is a violence between it is a violence that involved those created under colonialism is problem. north africa was after all, the british flame big enough. it got it. not i can come tuesday with no major it. there were only minorities, african tribes, and after independence you have this struggle as to who would become a majority when i get to the civilizing dialectic, as you put it up, political violence. and in a moment, the i want to talk about your positive views about a different way forward, which you base around south africa. obviously, mandela nelson mandela considered a terrorist by nation nature, media and in this country for so for so long. and why do you believe the negotiated settlement in south africa,
which arguably as goes to the reservation of african people, greater inequality now than under a part i why, why do you, why do you prefer that south african model? i should say, i've interviewed nelson mandela before he died. mandela told me, we have to do what the i, m, f and world, and tell us that seem to be the the end of the truth and reconciliation community. to me, i distinguish the truth and reconciliation commission from the big oceans. that took place, it came to truth and reckoned t r c. it was very much like no it focused on individual it. it brought individuals to the television stage for kind of the short trial in performance, you only differences newer move with the nuremberg, whereas number was about crime and punishment. t r c was about crimes and
forgiveness but, but the mother was the sex in the new responsibilities individual responsible did a completely different process to place a company in the group in the negotiation, the captain party with a commission that the problem is political and we have to solve this political problem. and the political problem is the exclusion of particular groups, permanent exclusion of particular groups, in this case, the vast majority. so the natural thing would have been within if and if an independent of others and nation state was to be born, it will be seen as a state of the black majority with, with the whites, the indian to the colored has so many national minorities for that's not the route that south africa took. it took a different route. it went, if you look at,
if you follow the language of the n c, it began as a language of black majority. but then it went on to speak of and non racial democracy. the south africa moment was the recognition by the n p, a movement that you are not fighting while you're fighting white's power. you are not just fighting apartheid. you had to come up with an alternative to a party. it was not just about turning the world upside down, it was about creating a new was now apartheid had created 2 political categories based on which 2 people. one was raised, the other was try. what the anti apartheid movement managed to do was to deeply, besides, race was not to be fine, political participation based on race. but it has been unable to be politicized type. and he does continue to accept the tribe as custom and tribal
it enfranchisement and different franchise meant as, as customary law. so if you look at south africa from 994, the what violence we have seen in south africa, the zeno for violence is not again to white. it's not against race, it's again the tribal stranger. it's against the african who could come from outside the borders of south africa. which arguably was y'all give me, shoot some people, people in power, but across africa and as a team in your book, you appear to be saying that n g o's basically govern the global south out of these ideas of posted dependent settlement. where the engineers do the work on the ground and the african leaders attend submit to the top
so. so increasingly we have had it a close into a different direction. there is the, there is the aid or the financial flows that come to african economies as a whole african political leaderships. and then there are financial flows which come to an international n, g o, a local n g o n. so you have a form of governance, which is not accountable at all because it please, the former political leadership of africa supposed to be accountable to the people, but the engineers have no accountability to the people. this are the people who are recipients. they are consumers, the accountability to where the funds from the accountability is to the donors. so it's a token and did democratic models that we have in the n g o stuck. so in the book
we have the i, c, c, not fit for purpose where omar bashir is, of course when saddam was a big place we have and joe's is you say, dealing with the kind of neo colonialism form of power. you, you cite that the all no records as regards palestine were sell out way. yes, there are a fatty in your view. should palestinians not actually be that surprised at some palestinian activists are about settler violence going on today and the head of christmas in the holy land in a, in a few weeks time. they shouldn't be that surprised given what you write about as regards the path taken by the colonial settling of jews in israel. i mean, i think there are different tendencies within within and then israel palestine,
there is the center violence which is about continuing the not about getting radio for yes is from israel proper, but also from the west bank as much as possible. the problem of settler violence is that it does not have to go. it does, it does not. it does not have an idea of what to do with the balance. unless it's, except for a genocide it has no, it wants to extend the physical territory of it. formally, you know, the area is around, the historical land is run and it's only about the nation. but what to do with the people on the land. it doesn't have a project to laid up before before the world has only obviously, the israeli government would completely deny any charge of the possibility of
genocide as with those arming these really a government as it bombs, syria and, and as it tries to clam down on settlers regarding these really a government just finally on political violence. tell me about how you see it as a how you see it as a dialectic for both reform and what exactly it can be useful for something that obviously people empower desperately, fear any kind of political violence. what role does it play? well, unlike criminal violence, what political violence tells us is that there are addressed grievances and the challenge is to identify what these grievances are in the case of today, in most cases, the unaddressed grievance is exclusions exclusion from the political community or
inclusion on very an equal basis of the palestinians in the west bank are excluded palestinians in ga, exclude palestinians in side. israel are included in one state, but on the very, i mean basis the reason for political violence. so it challenges us to think of a new political form, which is not based on the claim to be a nation. a nation is a cultural construct. state is a political construct. what we need is to separate these 2 so as to make it possible for people or different cultures, different belonging to live in the same territory. you can be an immigrant what you don't pick me as an immigrant, comes an accept or an existing political structure, a settler comes in and wants to create his own state structure.
so this is, this is a challenge professor web 90. thank you. thank you so much. that's over the show will be back on saturday to speak to the lawyer of native american political prisoner leonard peltier, as well as another legendary voice or an anti colonial struggles terry. golly, until then, keep in touch my social media and let us know if you think colonial practices are still being used to divide us more when i would show seemed wrong when all proofs just don't hold any world. yes, to shape out disdain becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,
we choose to look so common ground. with russia vows retaliation after germany expels to diplomats accusing the kremlin of ordering a murder on german soil. 2 years ago, moscow dismisses the claim as baseless a frosty future. the you plans to drop all long term natural gas contracts after 2049. despite concerns that much vaunted green alternatives won't be able to meet european energy needs and jails for trying to protect.