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tv   Going Underground  RT  December 11, 2021 10:30am-11:01am EST

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scientific knowledge has never been so readily available to everyone across the globe, but overwhelmed by information. can we distinguish the real science from the one being imposed upon us? we're living in a world where there are many people who have a vested interest in finding information, finding scientific evidence, and discredited. even the notion that science could provide the truth about the natural world in the pursuit of business goals. launch corporations, a challenge strongly by scientific evidence if you're emotionally invested and free markets, then climate change is a serious emotional threat. because dealing with that means we have to change our approach to business industries or on the war bar, attempting to debunk legitimate science by producing new evidence in science, lighting, science. that's how ignorance is manufactured. there are potentially seeking to the rail science rolling using stier to against itself.
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ah, a with i'm not sure if that's any what you're going on the run 57 years to the day, the che guevara address of the united nations coming up in the show is u. s. president joe biden playing chicken in kiev hours after abide and self styled democracy summit condemned in china and in the week of the pigeon. biden's summit. what chances of nuclear war we don't do, you know, we don't rule out 1st use nuclear action, and apocalypse again or doomsday. it is useful additions,
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argue for nuclear strikes on russia. we explore y n times a predicted time and time again, and who see all of them all coming up in today's going underground. at 1st 57 years ago today, che guevara addressed the un general assembly during the height of the so called cold war. and this week vladimir putin and joe biden, arguably try to avoid nuclear war in a private virtual summit between the 2 supervisors. laser nation media predictably centered on ukraine rather than the legacy of failed was in iraq, afghanistan, syria, and libya. joining me now from canterbury is kent university's professor of russian and european politics and the author of the pigeon paradox. professor richard sackler. thank you so much. sure. profess sacrifice. coming back on, we're actually talking about armageddon in bar 2 of this show biden. am i just finishes democracy summit selected democrats being invited there to are a virtual. as summit you said last time you were on going underground. that biden would be it exceptionally dangerous leader am endorsed by the washington security
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establishment. you said aside from him sending the 7th fleet, i think it is to china along with the british washer being sent there. obviously the 6th fleet in the black sea right now. what do you think about her in the context of russia imminently about to invade ukraine? what do you think of her, the virtual putin biden, some of this week? well, when we last spoke, i think we were anticipating what the biden presidency was going to look like on its early days. what is actually happened since, or is now coming to the end of his 1st year in office and what's emerged is that term, even though he's, you know, a long time individual dealing with a foreign affairs at, in income u. s. d, u. s. congress and vice president. he's turned out to be a more mixed picture of it. so what's important is that he has engaged is
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putting in with russia twice. they was the june 20, the summit in geneva, which was important for establishing were 2 things. and arms control process and either some sort of framework for managing cyber conflict. and of course, the virtual summit this week. so it's, it's important that he's actually talking. i think the big picture is, is that the idea was that they would stabilize the relations with russia and then focus on the conflict with china. you mentioned interestingly, just not. you talked about 57 years ago. the so called code war. it was not, it was not a so called it was the cold war, and of course i meant to call because it was hot for many of the developing world in so in that sense, absolutely. in that sense, it was pretty hot in all sorts of places that go to vietnam war except, you know,
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but it was ultimately a cold war in that the major powers did not come into to get confrontation. i argue that that was in the cold or one, and that we're now in cold war 2 because of the unsolved unresolved issues at the end of the 1st congo after 98991. and of course, that's how we need to understand the u. k in crisis today in that context because no inclusive equitable piece order was established after 1991 and instead of which the atlantic power system nato. and of course, the european union both advanced and in a sense, it wasn't so much the enlargement of these 2 organizations. it is the way it was done, which has established a negative security dilemma. or let's put it this way and intensifying security dilemma, which russia feels more and more challenged. this is what the class is over. you
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claim today is all about. well, as you know from a more hawkish, i think tanks here in london, that alone across the pond in the united states, they probably reject that kind of analysis. after all, what we have here is a question over what a 120000 of pollutants troops are on the border with that ukraine. we talked last time of the script pals. we talk about human rights abuses in russia and good in russia. are we talking about am, what rusher is exerting as a malign influence around the world? the occupation of a crimea as a, is a constantly, a constant reminder on nato nation, media. you so you don't see it as a even or do you see it as part of cold war 2 that we should have where these one us politicians are to roger wicker, 2nd, eyes ranking republican on the armed services committee and congress saying that we
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mustn't rule out the 1st use, a 1st use nuclear strike on russia. and obviously britain is a nuclear power as well. so as to nuclear power versus moscow. well engage. this is just that sort of our crazy talk is just a sign of just how weird and how dangerous the 2nd cold war is. because i don't think you'd have had many people talking in such a loose and wild manner in cold war one, which was a more disciplined conflict. a more crime, a more straightforward one, communism versus capitalism. 2 blocks power to power blocks. it seemed to be so much simple, almost naive in those days, this 2nd cold war. you're absolutely right that, you know, defenders of nato enlargement will argue that it's benign and that it nothing. there's nothing for russia to be concerned about. no dinner, i've always sat suggested there is, you know, there's that a valid argument as absent, no reason why nato could not have enlarged. but the point was that ultimately there
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had to be a way in which the enlargement dealt with the russia security question. now it's not a question of pretending it's not a question or whoever comes after him because it also concerned who came before him yeltsin and measured it. and of course, whoever comes off to head it is a fine to my sorry to interrupt them, but there's no written evidence that james baker gave an undertaking to the russians. that nato would not expand eastwards as though there is pine, cio, hooting evidence survey survey on sky, another national archives. material show not only james baker on, in february 1990, but a dozen western leaders said the same thing. plenty of documentary evidence in the memoirs, and in the minutes of those meetings, there was no tracy of course. so that in that sense, no, it was not formally made as a political so plenty of written evidence,
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no substantive negotiated and get us traffic error in the whole history of state, sir, since of all of the roman empire committee by russia, and isn't putin committing yet another mistake allowing it to get to the stage where he's worried about the russian rushes biggest, a naval base and the poring over western arms and, and troops. i mean, i don't know why they're on the us. national guard troops from california are already in ukraine. british troops, apparently on standby to send $600.00 special forces, how to put and get into position like this, forgetting the errors made by gorbachev in yelton. yes, indeed, i'm included, just stand off at the moment. is, you know, on the one side you could argue in some people have argued, it's as dangerous as the cuban missile crisis. and october 1962. i don't think it's quite at that level. but what it does show is that to, you know, the for, this is the 2nd time this year that is in this military build up. gotcha. because
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you mentioned one figure. we don't know what the figures are. they seem to vary between 70120, if not 850000, but certainly to our forces along the border. it was saying that we're hearing daily in a donation media about numbers of troops and munitions and plus personnel and the material. yes, i mean these numbers, as you say, keep changing and don't forget, the whole issue began in washington at 1st the, the, you know, the how you can, you know, for the care of leadership. i'm dismissed at an event that now joined it. you know, i'm talking about a few weeks ago. it's a very interesting, i'm going to say one word about the semester for bass. it isn't just a question of nato enlargement, of course, because even nato enlargement was off the agenda at the time of the obama presidency. yet we're talking about the fact that the u. s. forces will be, as it were,
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defacto part of it will be advancing into you again already this is putting, made this point in his bow our speech in october. and of course, he's not the only one to pointed out that nato enlargement is only one part of the advancement of an atlantic power system which excludes russia. so as i say, you know, what's happening now is that, gosh, as pushing back in his state of the nation speech earlier this year, putting argue this was an april, he took that red lines. and so what's happening there is quite clearly the ukrainian crisis is an impasse and that, and this is why i'm to say it was positive that in the bi, didn't to, to, in virtual meeting earlier this week that this was talked about and said no red lines biden will learn except they were the redlands, they weren't exactly guidelines, but protein, whether they accept them or not. they're awesome. and the question is that,
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what does the russia do about it? you know, i don't think, i mean, clearly invasion talk i think as well talk as gotcha is not planning to invade. in part, this was a plan to move in case there was going to be a push against on bass. but even that was unlikely. but what we're now seeing is an attempt to, if you like to cut the ukrainian gordian knot that if minsk that the game and on the stages of don bass is not going to be implemented. then let's find a way of trying to deal with this issue so that we don't get into this question again. will means hasn't mentioned much on nater nation media. i don't know about whether but leaders like by blue bars, johnson, nato leaders, oppression by the military. industrial complex people are making money out of all of this, of course, the arms makers. but i don't know whether a zalinski is under pressure from the hard. right, right. sector, neo nazis. and this a in kiev, i better just quickly go to this threat of economic warfare, which certainly,
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as seems much more in horizon than in a nuclear strike. what can the russia do? i mean, what will it do? team up more with china, if it's a fab western authorities, stop the swift, a banking transfer scheme whereby all businesses are able to trade money and send money abroad. what, what is put in a going to do? isn't this a massive own goal for is the sending in all these troops to the border, rather than actually a vic draft putin and getting by them to the table virtual table? well, all these say, all these moves are threatened if russia invades. but since russia has no intention of invading, unless, of course, you can move 1st, then these measures are hopefully won't take place. and of course, in addition to the list you've mentioned, there's nordstrom to that already it's being sanctioned, even without an invasion. it's been delayed by several years. and even now it's, you know, they, they will, i mean, jump the idea of defending yourself by cutting off your own gas supplies. what do
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you think? you don't think the new chancellor sholtes will will, will he just being a role over to the united states and stop energy security for germany and western europe? yeah, well this is in addition, 6 and stopping by a was increasing energy security and date by and showing more direct supplies. and of course supplies from yano, which of course is far to the north of the ukrainian plank system. so yes, well indeed, they knew german government has been signed in the 2nd week of december this year. so we'll have to see because the chancellor, so i would imagine we'll want to continue the pipeline. but don't forget, his foreign minister is that really one of the code ages of the kings who in the past has spoken against it. but of course in office and this was an issue carefully avoided in that in over a 100 pages of the coalition agreement. but it's an important issue. obviously, the big question is,
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why is the united states so concerned about european energy security when, when would have thought your parents could handle that issue themselves for miss richardson. thank you. and kiss after the break nuclear war. plague climate disaster his judgment day approaching or has it been misjudged again? we examined the history of the end of the world. all this more coming up about to have going underground. ah welcome back 24 years ago to day kyoto protocols were signed in an attempt to prevent climate catastrophe could be argued that the continuing climate crisis represents just one of the force horsemen of the apocalypse that are bearing down on the 21st century. alongside nuclear war, a global pandemic and famines created by new liberal policies. what better time for the end times again, 2000 years of the use and misuse of biblical prophecy?
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the new book by martin whitlock, who joins me now for both in england. thank you so much, martin for coming back on. you know, we have a new german chancellor, earl of schultz, a huge influence on the european union, and you better begin like you begin in the book about dissuading us of the you. parliament is not modeled on the tower of babel and there is no missing seat 666 dead all or it's deliberately kept empty and the european parliament in strasburg. yes. yes. i can. i can reassure you about that. i was what astonished in 2016 when i was part of organizing a meeting at west country time, looking at the albums, foreign against membership of the you and we got in the end some extraordinary debates about people make accusations about it was much christian churches are algae, many people that talk about economics and, and the politics of it. and so are some people there were, were very impassioned about that. the fact that the european union, they thought represented a new form of the 4th kingdom of daniel and ret,
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reflective things in revelation. and there was this, this, this disk accusations that, that align the seat. 66 is katrina ready for the anti. i was astonished by this and many other people. i was with astonished, but i shouldn't have been astonished because i have a back story in this. i was a kid of the 970. i read the american books like late, great kind of by how lindsay another. and i was very much into this in the 970 and felt that i was getting very much in the end times. we may yet be doing the end time. i've got a k convinced that within the christian church, this is very often a problematic area because although it's a core belief, the problem comes when people are sure they are in the end times and stop interesting events are being due to difficult property being fulfilled and then they will be right to some cases, but in other cases they can be woefully wrong as 2000 years of history shown. so i was, i was shocked to that meeting. i wrote this book party to wake up coal to people to
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just be cautious in how they approach the core area of christian belief. well, i mean there are plenty of you is out there who probably think we are in, in times and probably do think the european union is a satanic. i don't know how more seriously. as we approached, i christmas looking to the holy land bethlehem. you contend the trump's decision to move the u. s. embassy to jerusalem amidst all the ongoing violence. and because we've at ariba violence in may this a year at the support for israel's occupation of serious golan heights. this is not for you for a united states or jewish ship, people, it is for the evangelical people. that's what that's all about us is really a big jump on the record of saying that his support in these areas does not come from american jewish believers. but they come from members of what we might turn the evangelical, right. i evangelicals within the u. s. a who see israel as
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a fulfillment of prophecy. and therefore, see what can sometimes amount to unquestioning support for, for actions by as early as radio administrations as being in line with that support for prophecy. and it is quite clear that when trump moved the embassy, i'm not support full as a santee over the golden heights. he was not, he was not appealing to american jews. he was appealing to us evangelicals who of course, as we know so something lighten 53000000 votes for him. 81 percent wife angelica's, or to full him both in 2016 and in 2020. so he was appealing to a core base there who basically view middle east and politics you through and what you might con eschatological lens. and clearly see trump for is for some filings are delivering in this area. so this, this is the logical position has come some quite extraordinary impacts on one geo
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politics. yeah. you who you cite the wasn't both quoted piece about 33000000 is believe in the creation of the state of israel and 48. i did presage the 2nd coming of, of christ. but if, as to trump, who are going to that citation meant that he kind of knew this is to tit for electoral reasons and jump and by their support of israel. i mean, just the other day this week, the talk here in syria, the resort town was bombed by israel, in fantasy to you, aesthete, as they come in a long line of leaders around the world in history. charlemagne use a pope herb and the 2nd frederick the 2nd. who used the apocalypse? yes indeed. basically. within christianity as when it, as within islam, there is a belief in the end times are they the the 2nd coming of christ, the coming of isa in islam. but also the within, within christianity, there is
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a core belief that christ will return again. and although actually the new testament counsels in fact mom that we are not the guest at times, not estimate the times. nevertheless, christians have found it very difficult not to do so they kind of been tempted to do so. our the curiosity, unenthusiastic, also wanted to see happen as on the call the bottom with that is instead of waiting patiently for something that's in gods hands, one tends to interpret the signs of the times in one's own days. i want to see 2000 years of, of mistaken speculation of errors literally from the end of the roman empire through to that the viking attacks look, regard as being forums, antique, right, am migrant, asians, you can imagine what people sang during the crusades is this is tussle between christian islam and how on islam was regarded as being then in league an anti christ. from the crusade point of view, it exploded again during the reformation and when christianity fractured and then
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you can see prostate calling the polka to christ example. it was very, very big in meetings revolution in this country. it then goes quiet for a while and then explodes again in the 20th century where since the 2nd world war in many ways, particularly united states, it has become, what might call a and s got a logical counterpart to the cold war politics that we divide in the middle east and dividing the world after 945 famously. famously gorbachev seen as, as precedent that yeah, you mentioned english revolution. i thought the diggers in 1649 were revolutionary . didn't believe in god, but you, you say something different there. but actually when it comes to revolutionary politics, you say that there are people who say that the later church may have the finesse to jesus his message to say. whereas a jesus christ was talking about the end times in his own life. the end of the temple they may, for instance, had just why it's further away the apocalypse. well,
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no, no certainly debates amongst biblical scholars as to what was meant by jesus teaching about the end times. and clearly it does appear to be many layered on some path that he be talking about coming catastrophe with regard to conflict with roam. nevertheless, as he talked about himself as being like the son of man and daniel, he clearly was look talking in eschatological terms, talking about the, the longer term as well when michael cosmic change. but what's really interesting is that within the new testament there a clear commands not to get the times to leave it to god, to not touch what to pick the times. but it was, it was a soon as the canon of scripture is cloned from the 2nd or 3rd century onward. we see people understandably, of course, because they're looking forward to this beginning to interpret their own times as well. there was a prophecy and beginning a process of erroneous miscalculations and erroneous speculations,
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which had lasted for 2000 years. so the kind of caution that new testament commands is often not the billions of would me people. yeah, but since this, the 33000000 arguably exert a disproportionate electoral influence on the super bower. and as you say, a george w bush are believed in the literal, the literal accuracy of a end times of predictions. what does that mean for a nuclear weapons use in climate crisis policies? presume that grew believe that you get violence in the middle east, you get a new, they confrontation, you get a climate crisis. this is all a critical foretold. it can be very, very alarming, because if in fact you believe that you are on the brink of your pockets, if you like, of, of armageddon. and then far from working for peace and harmony and saying if it doesn't work out least it wasn't me that contributed towards it. not working out
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there can be that can be a dangerous tendency to step back to let things run to even if you like. encourage of the apocalypse. i think one of the things we find within the american right is for example, on a refusal to engage with climate change. after all is what has no future then why not be, you know, the why get engage with climate change? 20 that may be part of the plan for the end times. there can be a distrust of nuclear disarmament as i remember people saying these kind of things in a 19 eighties for example. well, if, if, if, if this is going to lead to armageddon, then we shouldn't be kind of like stopping as it were. so they can be a very dangerous trend within particularly even alco roy in the states, but can almost be looking towards armageddon. and so he doing nothing to if you like, slow it down or, or, or to diffuse conflict. i think that is, that is very dangerous area. and it can,
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it can in fact encourage escalation of conflict almost as if people feel that they are kind of hurrying along the times. and it reminds us that we do not live in a secular, a world as we sometimes think that we do and, and it's interesting how it can be used by left and right. you mentioned catholic liberation, theology of is in latin america. revolutionary ideas that draw something of this apocalypse, but in terms of class war 8, you, you do say that 8 can encourage passivity. those empowers in power can say that we have the climate don't do anything about yes is quite intriguing because it would be wrong to say that belief in n times necessarily goes along with passivity or that it goes along with brightening politics. that would just not be correct. you can find time again and again in the history of eschatology, the christian church, when it has accompanied radicalism, the sense all building the kingdom on earth over throwing the world in order to
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establish a kingdom of justice. you mentioned the diggers, monarchy man in the 17th century rebels during the german peasants war in the 16th century and so on, so forth. so it is not a foregone conclusion that it is back to passivity or even allowing imperialism and violence. but it, but it is certainly taken that turn, particularly in the usa since the 2nd world war on what worries me is that what happened in the usa since the 2nd world war is it has become, if you like, a, an accompaniment to cold war politics. and the kind of divisive polarized politics that have continued with the end of the cold war. and that, i think it is certainly not in line with testament radical radicalism. we talked about justice and talked about the capitol po and talked about, you know, blessing the peacemakers and so on. i think it's not in line to that, but too often it is in line with imperialistic,
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militaristic outlooks which see themselves as being if you like, the ones who are encouraging it. i think that that's not the inevitable outworking of eschatological belief, but that is where we are at the moment with regard particularly to the american evangelical. right. and that is, i think an area of real concern loving with. thank you. thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday, 18 years to the day iraqi president, saddam hussein was captured by us forces, as part of an a donation was killed, wounded, displaced tens of millions until then keep in touch, social media and tell us what you think the end time, so more like now than ever before. ah, welcome to max kaiser's financial survival guide. looking forward to your benefit go. yeah,
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this is what happens dimensions in brittany del at this happens. you watch kaiser report. i have often said transparency for the powerful privacy for the bell. this bitter case about privacy or people care about is power. julian assange has become a symbol of the battle. the privacy information is power. that's what's going on in the world. a huge struggle with the governments and corporations to want to keep information secret and others who the democratic rights should be pushed forward. and people have a right to know what their minds are doing. watch how assange helped shift the conversation around transparency. um, so what that battle has done to him, i feel like julian's life might be coming to an end. we are in a conflict situation with the largest, most powerful employer in such
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a situation. it's remarkable. the somebody stole her world has really turned upside down. and what we see now is blake and hypocrisy. when was the last time you had a verifiable truth from the united states government that they put out to the public is being called adult day for journalism, giving the sounds and polt is lasha to the london high coach ruling to allow his possible expedition to the united states, yes, and that the hearing is not needed to decide his fact. we call on our shop to return to the promising and to the escalades in the western youth. russia to take the hay tag is the ukrainian crisis while sending $60000000.00 worth of minute created to keys and was reported late considering mall. and an american billionaire is forced to.

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