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tv   Cross Talk  RT  November 15, 2021 3:30pm-4:01pm EST

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to monitor which he hasn't or take the scene and chief legal unless professional opinion. i mean the stupidity of this like what could possibly go wrong? well, a lot went wrong. the good news for kyle written house is that he's not on trial for being an idiot. meanwhile, on the right, images of written house flashing a white power symbol of being to swept under the carpet because everyone seeing what they want to see. and as for biden, the president who promised to heal, well, he got written house his photo and put in a little trailer about white supremacy. how's that for leadership in times of trouble? when i saw that, i was shocked. i was angry, president biden, doesn't know my son whatsoever, and he is not a white supremacist. he is not a racist, and biden did that for the boats. and i was so angry at him and what he did to my son, he defamed him. so patriot or far right, poster boy, killer or martyr. whatever the jury decides, one thing is for shore at
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a time when americans have never been so polarized. co written house has brought them together only for them to realize just how far apart they really are. that's all for this. our join us again in half an hour for the latest headlines in the meantime. stay tuned for crosstalk next. ah. join me every 1st. on the alex simon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess with the world politics sport. business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then. mm. ah, ah.
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hello in welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter labelle, the e and bear rose red odds over illegal immigration. guess what men's cuts the higher carts. also, washington is again increasing tensions within ukraine. is the bike administration looking to score a foreign policy victory to deflect from crises at home? ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, marcus papadopoulos in london. he's a historian analyst, an author of the book, arise, receive the return of russia to world politics. and here in moscow we have maxine, shoot off. he is director of the center for advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international relations. originally, cross stock rules and the fact that means you can jump anytime you want,
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and i always appreciate it. i know with marcus in london, well, the story with in poland is gaining attention and intensity by the way, about the legal immigration. now the, what the e u is saying, and particularly the polls is that these people are being dumped on to them. but brussels is very hesitant for orders and not to speak of walls here. but there are more and more people coming to their room to saying these people are transiting here. there's something much more at play here. and i think it is. is that the, the lucas shank of the beer russian president? he's basically saying you want to resolve this issue. you have to talk to me. keep talking open says he doesn't want to talk about it. it's really there is this forcing an issue for the european union to actually start recognizing that be areas as legitimate interest here. because we've seen that that they don't want to have
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any kind of dialogue, your thoughts, markets go ahead. a allow me to clarify a very important matter. there is only one migrant crisis and go to europe. and that is a minor crisis which isn't. it is now caused by america, britain and france have in the stabilize both libya and syria through having supported islamist terrorists in both countries, which has resulted in well over 1000000 migrants and sure in europe, most of whom have not come from libya and syria. but turn into the tension on the polish russian. buddha, the g, a strategic dimensions to that are as follows. america and britain are attempting to ferment civil unrest in reverse. or it's historic. a,
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in the hope fermenting civil unrest in the country will assist them in their quest to initiate cou in bella, russia against president alex on to look back towards wrestler, bella from moscow. bit and place it in the west, which would result in the western border of the russian federation from the black sea being entirely encircled and closed by countries which are in the west of it. that would be a tremendously dangerous situation for russia. now was, the chances of must include in bella vasa, occurring all next, negligible, nonetheless, anything is possible. there is also another dimension to this america and britain are looking for
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a pretext to continue increasing. nato is the presence along with the russian odor, both soldiery and weaponry. i'm bi election baxa, russia, backed by russia, is attempting to stabilize the european union. be stabilized nato by allow in migrants illegal migrants to enter europe. that says as a pretext for increasing late. so his presence in the age and what has happened? well, just in the last few days, pizza, british soldiers have been dispatched to poland to advise the polish government on how to secure its folder. well, that's quite lawful for a number of reasons, but one of them is that the british states doesn't see fit to dispatch a british soldiers to nobody to defend britons bold as against illegal migrants who
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have trust in being those channel on a daily basis. indeed, only a few days ago, 1000 illegal migrants entered on one day alone. yeah. the so tension between the european union and embarrass mostly really shows the, the, the wanting immigration policy of the european union. because as marcus is pointed out, here is a process is basically just dropped the bone because, you know, they're not particularly happy with the poles in the 1st place right now for a lot of other internal union issues here. so it really kind of puts them in a bind and then we, when we have the p and union trying to communicate russia the communication bearers, the russian things, not our problem and your problem. and look, shank is saying, well, let's talk, but they don't want to, i mean it's, it shows the weakness of the, of european american unions foreign policy. it's immigration policy, even leadership here,
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because this can be resolved because we do have an example that name is called eric on. ok. i mean, they're willing to talk to turkey, not a member of the european union about legal immigration, but they're not willing to talk to because what are they too proud? go ahead. right. well, i think there are, there are 2 lessons to, to learn for the europe from the crisis and anything so far they have not been learning these 2 lessons. one is if the your opinions are as concern as they should be about the security instability of the adjustment regions, north africa and the middle east. they perhaps should have stopped out sourcing major decision making to the united states. that them full spray to internal american domestic politics. right. and they should take matters into their own hands, which they're not doing as, as you just mentioned. and markers just show. so they're asking for more kind of american and british support to take these, you know, to solve this issue for them. and that's
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a problem in the long run. and the 2nd lesson, i think that they are not learning that they should be learning is that turning states into failed entities has long term consequences. so when, when they were old, these interventions in syria garnished on even iraq, i guess a huge number of these migrants and the polish bell, russian border, or iraqi purse. and you know what, what i think is missing in this discussion is how did they end up on the polish bell, russian water and why would they go there? and the 1st place, right? they're not, you're in there. i think there is little the discussion on what's going on in the iraqi kurdistan. why would people go to, to, to europe now? and that these are a serious questions that i think have not been at ransom. rather, the aeroplanes keep looking for the factor in every single challenge that they face . and i don't think it's a long term solution markets with this issue with energy,
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their low to, to appreciate energy security, migration, security. but, you know, at the same time, they say they have to demonize russia, but maybe the russian been figured out. i mean, it's a very, we're trying to bomb adult, broached on all of the. and if you right, we pointed out the, you case them true to poland. i mean, this all started out because the military decision in the middle east and now the, their best solution. this is central. what about just city now? how can we, we can negotiate the welfare of these people and the big around how they got there, why they got their presumably, presumably gentlemen, these quote unquote rescue. geez bought wayne tickets. so, i mean, these are well off refugees. i mean is there's always, they're always looking for a land game, but we don't even know who these people are. go ahead. well, of course, if america, britain and the european union was to sincerely analyze the reasons for the
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migration crisis, then it was totally annihilates. bear reasons for having intervened in both libya and syria. so obviously they are not going to go down that pathway. however, there is, and a very, very obvious reason. i play here as to why in focus is on russia. it is because the russia of today is not the russia of the 19 ninety's is flat, that may uprooting was over yeltsin if he was complying to weston wishes to western demands. if he allowed russia to be dependent on the international monetary fund, then you would say a very different approach from the west. but of course, the reality is that on the, it, not only has russia regained its independence, which it lost. so
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a very great extent during the 1990s, because it was on an iron, met life support machine. not only that for them, it has returned russia as a great power. and even further, he has returned russia as a superpower. and of course, the americans look to russia as the only country which can truly challenge. it's a, it's hedge, a monic role in the well, they do not look at china in the same way because they know that the chinese economy is dependent on the american economy. so china is not able to challenge russia in the same way. and as i said to moments ago, the situation on the polish russian order is not about migrant per se, is about russia is about find in another pretext. 224
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meant for civil unrest in ballard, russia to demonize president location in my estimation has been a very good job in keeping bell of every stable country since the end of the soviet union. and also it provides the west to continue beef in up. it's the military present in nature and in the black sea region. that is what the, the crux of the matter is concerning. the tension on the polish russian border. it is about later increase in its presence along the russian order. i think it was kind of a psychological thing to, i mean brussels this can't confidence back that there was and say no, they can say no. and when you get away with it here and because of that now they've taken options off the table. like i said, there's the error to one option you might might or might finance it resolved your
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problem. ok. and they're not willing to accord the same kind of policy towards a great, very reason explain to us. right. i agree, and i will also add to that perhaps that i think kind of a me turn challenge here is that, well, the rules maybe kind of turn into what d p a r k is for china. you know, when you put too much pressure on kim and refusal kind of neat options for negotiation that me, that way you have, you know, north korea as a strategic leverage for china against regional rival, but also a beat opinion. the knack, which i think, if the current policies towards the risk continue, then russia would have to support, will go on a number of things that may not necessarily be in russia's own interest. but because you don't really have a better option than you have like it even longer problem on your hands. but also,
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as i mentioned before, europeans kind of are playing a trick role here. you know, on the one hand they complain about their security. on the other hand, they refuse to make their own transformation from a payer to a real player a ah ah ah ah
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ah ah, ah ah ah ah ah ah, ah. the welcome at the cross type were all things are considered.
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peter la bell. this is the home and just to remind you were discussing some real news. i change gears maxime, let's talk about ukraine and i have this really bad feeling of deja vu all over again. because we had in the spring tensions we say, very provocative rhetoric and even behavior. and then we seem to have a repeat b u. s. administration. the by the ministration really is increased its interest and it's the same time spent. and we've been ukraine here. what is the message they're sending because it's very confusing, or maybe that's the whole point is to be opec ok to to rate a sense of unease. but of course the, that in itself creates more attention. and obviously the russians are watching very
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carefully about. as i will stress over and over again from this is an interest ukraine problem. definitely trying to pull russia into it. your thoughts, my friend, go ahead. well, i think throughout its history, russia as a continental, our had to focus on 3 major fronts, you know, with the west east on goals. and now perhaps we'll keep an eye on china, but also in the south where the entire kind of central asia middle east direction. so the idea that i think has been very strong in the west, in the us in particular that rushes and chinese alignment may pose a greater challenge and rushing that act as a force multiplier to china is i think is very strong. so one reason to invoke these in ukraine card, so to say, as many policymakers moscow believe is that, you know, that kind of keeps moscow distracted from the eastern front, with china in, from the southern front with syria and all the middle east policy. and you've been
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very, very busy in the west with ukraine. the 2nd thing, i think you mentioned the desert, who i even have, but even more, i just kind of point dangerous. i mean, this is not a board game. we're guy. sure. very, very 14000 people have been killed by the government in the don. this is not a board game. this is very sorry to interrupt people. is it isn't that is serious. and then you know, the management that talks about there's a who and i haven't even and other issue with august 2008. and i think that makes me very worried in the wake of the war in georgia. music. right. and then the war in georgia and so south of santia, you know, a few couple of months before the 5, the war honda leaves arise came to believe c. and you know, some say in private, she argued, a war instructor will they get scores,
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who provoke and russia and stuff, but in public, then they went and then, you know, provided security guarantees and stuff. so i think, you know, when talk to the american policy managers to visit key f. and then you know, you speak to people say, well, they actually, you know, encourage the landscape to focus on fighting corruption and stuff. but that's not what they say in public though. and they didn't talk about natal guarantees. insecurity reassurance is all that kind of stuff. so that seems a very dangerous message to authorities and then then go and escalate in the use of your brain. so that makes him very worried about prospects for what we may see in this crisis markets. i'm really glad that mixing brought up august 2008 because i see the scenario playing out again. you have this very public propaganda barrage, encouraging the ukrainian. but there's a person named metro jato is who is known. i figure even before the,
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my don, the europe in union, a ultra national as even some people would describe him as a neo nazi he's, he's playing another key role in military thinking in kevin, his only goal is war is what is the goal is conflict and when you have the secretary events in the united states, you know, going, giving them these out of the boys and you know, where we got your back and, you know, in your inter, go to our security. all the other, you know, boiler plate nonsense that nato is putting out on a daily basis. this creates a very, very dangerous situation because obviously it's, i wag the dog situation that we could good way out here and there will be real consequences. go ahead mark. i have long described ukraine as rushes, soft underbelly because we've out a way if russia has a ukraine on its border,
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which is hostile and which is in the west of it. then not only is that russia going to be weakened in europe, but it will be weakened in the world as a whole. and even worse than that, russian national security will be in peril. and of course, for nearly 8 years now, ukraine has been in the west all bit politically, economically, militarily. also culturally, the west has integrated ukraine into it or bit. that is not to say, however, that russia doesn't have a leverage in ukraine because it most certainly does. so for example, millions of ukrainians, not just in the east of ukraine, not just in the south if you drink, but also in the center of pain regard themselves as part of the russian world. none the less ukraine is in the west orbit and america and britain,
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which of course, all the heart and soul of nato, are intent on bringing that ukraine into its ranks. because a ukraine in the ranks of nights. so the main that russia is and so on its western border, it would mean that russian supremacy in the black sea region would be seriously compromised. because even as we talk now, the americans are refurbishing the pools at odessa and also off in ukraine to accommodate american and british wash it. so what we see at the moment in the black sea region and in ukraine is an all measure that the americans and the british are going to take. they now have ukraine in their orbits. they are going to do, if the thing they possibly can, with the exception of defending ukraine,
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militarily, they will do everything they can to ensure that ukraine remains in their presence. so one of the options to russia, well gosh, is options. she does have options in ukraine, and quite frankly, ukraine should never have been allowed to enter the west or beach in the 1st place . the dangers emanates at the end of 2013 in ukraine, and for russia were very obvious, but that is under the bridge, so to speak. the only way that you crane can be saved is for russia taken clinical action. otherwise, the day will come. when you crane and night, so people could people very quickly. so people could say that ukraine can only join at night. so if the situation in the crime and the dumbass is resolved, but quite frankly here, could agree to reach all in its own way by it. forget about the crimea. if it gets
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about the blue, dense and on it, which has lost. and then in that scenario, ukraine will be free to join later this week and all, by the way, folks, you know, it doesn't sound right when it comes up. that doesn't roll off the b u. k. and the united states are black. the pounds because they're not for the black, but they're, they're met same. i mean, the cynic in me tells me, is then kind of echoing, when you said, you mean given, when marcus had to say, but the united states to create a diplomatic crisis for russia over ukraine suits them just fine. ok. i mean, encourage the government, you have a military assault on what's called the don dance. russia will react, irrespective of the outcome, the usb, that is a victory. russia would be isolated in the west military action because ukraine
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would not win. i mean, it's a, it's a very cynical game because every bad outcome in washington is perceived is a good outcome. go ahead max. well, i think if i were to look at the situation from, from the western point, it makes sense to when you have to focus on, you know, rivalry with china. but russia is, is, is still a huge issue. you need to build kind of a new containment in a way to contain russia in the black sea. and in the, in the, in this, in its border with ukraine is one option, obviously. and a big one. there is also, i think, an illusion of that you can lee, the court on board controlled escalation game with, with russia, where you supply your brain with, with certain weapons. and you maintain a certain degree of, you know, violence and escalation and intensity of the border with russia, and then hope you can still deter moscow against any hardcore option of retaliation . which i think what the united states has now been trying to do by also sending,
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you know, c, h, e, for birds to moscow. and kind of making all this warning signals against jack. but i think the red lines on the green have been told and repeated again and again, and what we're seeing now that they've been violating. and i think the entire situation is now being clean out again, around setting new rules and setting new stage for you know, the new brain obviously was not happy with the mens got worse. we right is, is the damping here. can see if the russia will buckle it will lay except a strategic peter, and i think all of this would agree, but that's not in the car. but then reception, then the west houses that if a certain combination, the russians will give up, that's not going to happen. and that's why i went on this program because i see this is a collision course. as i said, dasia, who all over again, i ranked remind everyone during the spring intentions were very, very,
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to be are to the point where obviously bought a potential conflict was at hand here, then be the americans and they were going to send in ships into the black sea, then they decided not to and then for some reason the u. k. type will go there. i mean, obviously they didn't work. why did they think it's going to work now? go ahead. well, i hope it's not going to work. the moscow may also kind of, again, you know, consider some, some new tactics. perhaps also the ones that may include and use a force to reset the stage and to go earth crane to sign some new terms of agreement. and obviously i think 6 to renegotiate the main skip course study beliefs were not in it's in its interest, but i can't agree more with you. it's a dangerous, it's a dangerous trend towards a new collision course. i can finish up. whereas markets, what are the chances in my opinion of
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a war between russia and america over ukraine, or negligible, but the chances of an accidental or i'm very much alive and well. that's what we worry about here. this miscalculation need play a game of chicken. one side may decide to go through with that. and then when one side decides to go through with that, you both end up in it. ok. what we're hoping to avoid here. i'll get gentlemen. that's all the time we have. you want to think my guess in moscow in london them. i think our viewers for watching us here are the see in x. i'm remember, ah, a water around the try, a seal island that's in contention between canada and the united states, where the government has suddenly become optimal for lobster and our population here is exploded. one of the most valuable fisheries that ever existed. suddenly
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you had me in canadian fishermen in these waters at the same time jousting for position and attention are high, violence is bound to happen. this is the last land border dispute between canada and the united states. it could be magnified to the part where there could be cost that would be significant to hold countries. border disputes don't go away, they discussed, or something's going to happen with unwelcome and desperate thousands of moderns endure. another freezing light before were heavily guarded. polish board are apparently willing to take even greater risks to get into the e. u. police and the u. k. the clara taxi explosion outside also to the liverpool on sunday. a terrorist incident for men are arrested in connection with loss which
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left to one person dead at another injured.

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