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tv   Going Underground  RT  October 11, 2021 5:30am-6:01am EDT

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can predict the weather, but can predict tom again and why he was interested in the impact of a native war in iraq on climate change. and his dirty money infiltrates, parliament, 76 years up to the chinese civil war began. we ask if extreme inequality and preventable mass covered debts in nato nations shall arising threat once again against capitalism, all the similar coming up in today's going underground. but 1st, it's a century since albert einstein was awarded the nobel prize for physics for work on the photo electric effect. this year, it has been awarded to want to discoveries that may help save the human species from climate change. joining me now from hamburg in germany is one of the 2021. no, well prize win is professor class hassle than i thank you so much for coming on. congratulations. i've got to ask, i'm not gonna ask how you heard about it. i know everyone always asked that question, although people probably want to know. but why is it? as is so often asked of you, we can't predict whether it will rain in 10 days time. but we can predict that climate change may annihilate the human species. well,
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the problem is that it's not just national religion, which typically would also impact on time to distinguish which remains the impact, the national resolve of very difficult. and it's very difficult to get across on the political domain for problems that are in 5102030 years. we used to responding to them or no one or 2 years. so there's no response to climate change or something which you're pretty sure you're not, you're still in line to operate. you know, boys and girls today they graduate. they used to cast tick modeling to model gambling in the city of london. your most famous papers, some of them because there's so many involve using stochastic modeling. what about how we have such little data on climate temperature?
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at least when you were writing your very famous papers, we didn't have ice core data. how are you able to model data, which was just a tiny fraction of the age when i think we have some idea of the past, we had to pass data from the printer or data so, so we knew what national come everybody was. and the question knew whether can you separate the national drama variable here that we knew about from the man's impact, which is on a short time change or time scale and to separate these 2 long time changes and the short time changes to my impact was these are challenges we out of that time as well. so we had to so some were uses them. so i 0 now demonstrated quite clearly that amount is changing time and we have to do something about it. i'll get on to the opponents during your search in a moment. have but one thing that may surprise people who don't know as much as
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you do, it is a euro use of quantum field theory. i thought quantum mechanics is all about tiny little things and you're using something about a few radical about that about oceans, which are huge things. wanted to be a framers or just and you are now the device take for a physics circle that unfortunately all went to do common research. i found it on the side in the chart problem. and the other stuff i realize are some of the techniques that are good and critics are going to pride to climate change. and i guess this had some impact. yeah. he did from that on. so i can valid too complicated for be able to explain in a short interview. i'm when you are doing your famous papers in the sixty's. it
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wasn't long afterwards. i mean into the 70 the cia wrote that man made climate change. i the, the paper in 9074 is called a study of climate logic, logical research, as it pertains to intelligence problems. they said primatologist don't recognize what the cia knows that it began in 1960 we're predicting in the era of drought famine in political unrest. how did the cia have the data? or were they using your work? it know what you knew about man made climate change. i didn't have much interact or what they were doing. ours are acting in that direction. but i shifted by jungle such as their comments, i just want to understand the physics of coverage. i was very happy that i had many co workers that were very good in tracking with public. and it's warming the public that we have a problem. so i can send back a written signed. so i was already,
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unfortunately ours embedded in a good side of the community that was also very good communicating with the public . so i could sit back and do my science. i'm then at the interaction that are publicly available on my card at your site. would you go to you hunter? i'm right now because, you know, we talk on this program about how we don't really know the impact on climate change of the u. s. military budget, the pentagon budget, it's all secret. how much are they contribute to fossil fuel emissions? your work on the 1991, a good persian gulf war. they were trying to work out when the burning of the co 8 oil fields in terms of fluid dynamics. what impacted that have on carbon dioxide emissions is not going to pay, but not tom removed, pointing out the impact of squaring, who also is and so forth from the just to point out that it was in interaction between the source of actions and,
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and climate british i wasn't already involved very much in network. i wrote, i wrote a k, it was in, wasn't actually significant, as it turned out in, in that paper at all. um, i suppose a while you've been doing all of this work. you know that there been fossil fuel companies, rubbishing your research, and the research of others? what was it like doing all that work on stochastic modeling, knowing that it's called a global climate coalition. swanson, by exxon chevron and others were trying to make out the your research was nonsense one, always some interested to companies that wanted to try to deny the fact that we were having tama change, but i never had a strong impact on the, on the publish those if you are interested that people are trying to support an idea, but it never came really across in the public. so i didn't really have any problem arguing with them. yeah. but apparently they had some scientists who would appear
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on t v. 's and things like, no, no, this is wrong, they don't have the data, it's not true. yes, but nobody took them seriously. i mean, the media has all and they on the so the problem monday, interact interacting with scientists for so it's very difficult to influence the property as a whole, to try to deny the fact that we haven't found my problem was i interesting groups and trying to but, and we don't have a problem with and i don't really get across in the public. well, as you say, i mean it's up, some people would say to belatedly, they understand it. how do you think politicians are responding to the implications of your such today? and especially i had called 26. i think the policies have difficulty responding to long term problems are several decades. they used to respond to in prominence from one you to the next to maybe the next election. but the idea that they have longer term problems to attack and respond to this way difficult to get across the
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partition. so it's much easier to speech from the public ashley then to actually partition because they're more used to trying to get a more short term response for the public for it all they're doing. and then i had a great great difficulties bringing it on. so parcel or problems that we have across to the public. but if also somebody trying to do this but assist over it if so very difficult and can we, is your work to quantify it? well, in terms of evaluation, the impact of attempts my governments to limit climate change. i think bruce, cecily sean point out that we had a promenade should be doing something. we didn't really and eyes to match what was being a good down. and because ashley was not very much ben gunn, regardless or simply as a saying before, they're not used to looking or responding to long term problems. and although they occasionally you find articles, newspapers,
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and so forth. this is really no ongoing long term discussion in the reading will remain on these really don't temp of is i think where the 1st time that is came up into more general discussion in the policies i think, to down people that they found ways of expressing things that were on the board scientist what i would bring across to well, so we're very happy that the younger generation you realize we have a problem and not being very effective in trying to get this or bring news across to the public. and dad, as you know, many of them are not happy with the 1.5 degrees centigrade level in the paris agreement. i mean, what d i'm, i don't know whether i can just plug a number into one of your formula to work out whether the species will be okay or not. is what do you think of the paras climate agreement in the 1.5 degrees centigrade? yeah, we do have such a such conferences and res hospice is 1.5 centigrade enough in terms of
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a target. i think that's not the right question. i mean it's, it's the order of magnitude. you're talking about between 1.2 and 1.8 degrees as i forth with this one. point 5 is just an os around number. it's the order of magnitude, yet we have to strive for and the impact that we'll have on the corners a whole or to get some idea of how this interaction between this goals are common change and the actual, the economic policies that we pursue. i think the issue kind of feeling bring to the understanding of the relation between a short so critical decisions and, and, and investments and so forth. and the long term impact on the in the additions is something which i think we're not, we're to bring across quarter across properly to the new demand yet. so i swap one
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of the problems that we have is assigned is to try to get people's aware of it on some impacts is what they're doing on the common change timescale. obviously, countries like china would say they've always been looking at it long term, but i wasn't going to ask you really since it is a century since einstein got the same award. what did you think? wow, did you find out that he won the nobel prize along with your a to co in a speaker? man, i'll be in georgia for easy. i think i was sitting at the radio and then somebody called and said, you know, i saw something. i said no joke, they're really good. no, well that's not going to happen to chime overnight and i wasn't expecting it. i mean, are you talking about the importance of such as i'm like many other people. so sometimes it's not news to ashley response to the meeting in the public to,
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to this problem. and i was quite surprised with what this happened. and do you think your next, i don't know what you're working on right now. maybe on trying to find out whether it'll rain in 10 days time. was that just too complicated a problem? nasa too complicated problem. so now on my basic idea was also to, to evolution the basic idea of physics and have a new way of looking at physics and particles and so forth. but nobody takes me very seriously unfortunately. so i have to work and accept that as well as you said, the young people of this world do your hopes for gold. 26. will you be monitoring it or will you be working on equations and the car? 26. i'm marshal. i was over. do you all very much, and i think now last this conference in glasgow here about where world leaders are supposed to come in and use your equations and turn them into policy. well,
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i'm very happy when people use my equations and use my arguments, but i, i'm not really a personal type. so i, i'm more i'd, i'd find what ways to bring it across to the, to the partnership measures. i'm very happy with all the people i use all these things up and, and try to make it more public proposal and thank you. thank you. i'm thank you. congratulations. after the break leveling up or reco levels of inequality up to the u. k. prime minister announced his welfare cuts to 6000000 amid revealed dodgy dealings and corruption allegations against the global elite. does this represent another crisis for capitalism? all of them all coming up and bought 2 of going undergrad ah ah,
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[000:00:00;00] ah, ah, with these people learn from their own experience, how vulnerable of business is to the bank? so he pushes my business over, the age, pushes me right to the edge, bankruptcy. now i realize we were good. this isn't just the back that it may be involved in this is the concept. see, it is the lawyers. these people have got you want others stories. ottawa
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can a whistle blower. tell people's marriages have broken up, lost their family homes, it is spectacularly devastating for people's lives. we have committed suicide, but left behind north, the explicitly state that it was the constant intimidation and billing by bank officers that led them to i took the spear, it's obscene, these people up nor saw. welcome back. the estimated corona virus deaths role in the usa is equivalent to more than 3000000 killed in china. is a proportion, a population comparable to the death toll in mows cultural revolution? will you k p. m, boris johnson, slashing welfare for the poorest this week? named checked italian economist and arguable precursor fascism feel free to parade . to who said democracy was an illusion. joining me now from new york is economist
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professor franco miller and of its share banker. thanks so much for coming on your parade to our british prime minister here was talking about how should that be a good good then? then he was talking about parade. so i know you been writing about how inequality is taking center stage in your liberal economies from washington to well to, to european capitals. well, the actually say rains or is it is cited by right. i have to say no, actually comes for me at the very interesting time because i was just writing a job or is of course, a controversial figure politically because i considered him as a precursor to fashion, which i don't think it is true actually. you know, i did, i did 1923. exactly when it came to power. he became a point. it was so they need to be a senator, but basically he died within a couple of months and really was never involved. but he was a conservative economist. he believed that the growth is crucial,
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that actually poverty cannot be eliminated except for growth. and i mean, i run a goal for read, there was a person who was the 1st started interpersonally i mean equality using the fiscal date. so he was actually in a call to started inequality by the law, but believe that you could not change. so after that, morris johnson would probably use such a figure, conservative thinker off to rule, but on so might say that he was a civil tenuously cutting a 20 pound payment to the $6000000.00 poorest people in this country that some say will lead to 800000 people falling below the poverty line. i think you been writing recently that the well there for the me ologist, obviously a blamed for cove deaths for not reacting properly. i mean that's that field. the politicians and the leads don't seem to be accountable
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for rising inequality. i do think that we were all like, all professions built a surprise. the effects of 1st of all, i mean you mention that to me ologist. they were, as we know, wrong, you know, from the beginning to the end. and actually the virus has been playing games with them because whenever they think, actually they have been in control. things would change the production of the vaccines. but whatever it has been amazingly fast, so that was really, really right on. on the other hand, also for the economy is very difficult barrier. because when we do projections, we do projections, assuming that basically we are in control of all the virus. but then we have seen these projections have changed over the last 2 years and almost depending on what countries were doing well, you know, in the beginning, then in the middle of then now, and this countries have often switch position repeatedly wrong. i mean, you were in the world bank so you know how wrong the world bank was,
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were developing countries as regards growth and macro economic policy. you can't blame them too much. you know, the point way projections is all if they don't pay them very seriously, because the projections are always project based on the current knowledge. and the assumption that there will be no dramatic a significant changes in the future. and we know actually dramatic and really unexpected, and you're seeing graphic events happen. and when they happen to like to call it happen, all the projections start off. so if you were to look at the, i'm there for the world bank, projections, 1019. it's not surprising that actually they were off they, they couldn't do it. the problem with projects, if really, if you're wrong and nothing spectacular, that's got been over that period and i think you're no problem. well babs, most dramatic from you has been something you said about china. i mean china obviously targeting inequality. we had from
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a guest only the other day. who is saying say, the shortages of certain types of energy is government ordained because of the climate catastrophe. the government is really targeting no inequality that is increased as the chinese miracle has continued. why compare the many deaths of miles cultural revolution with the new liberal responds to cove it and say the united states? well, you know, we can compare because that from one that ran to another event with all the sort of a day like carefully, you know, the us that still is enormous and absolutely was something that nobody could have expected. i mentioned very often the study that was done over 2019 by the johns hopkins university and the economy intelligence unit that actually with the u. s.
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is number one. there are some preparedness to face dependent. surely. i mean, yeah, but the economist, i mean let's face it, we, we, we could see all youtube video, but the economists historically, even the intelligence unit. and we knew that they don't have a universal health care system. the health system is completely inefficient because it spends the us taxpayer spends way more on health care and they don't get the provision. show me what to expect us to be hit was my bad demick. obviously why, you know, it seems obvious, but it didn't seem obvious that and we, i think we're definitely surprised by the extent when it was recent compared to the u. s. b during the civil war and vietnam war and so on. so you can, as it said, you can compare it to the cultural revolution with that adjustment for the population size. and if you would go, there is no doubt about that. and i think lots of would be a bit about that. especially the fact that the crisis is not over. so we're actually at some point,
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we don't know if we have 2 thirds of the all or maybe 60 percent or maybe one ha. so it is absolutely still or no, but it is a huge number because in the propaganda context of this, if china has done loads of crony contracts from profit driven corporations acted as new liberal, you states, you think that subsequent death jewel, china, in western media would be accused of genesis. well, you know, if i mean the corresponding number for china, you know, 700000 deaths into us would have been like 3000000. so i believe that kind of a $3000000.00 would have been mentioned very many times in as fascinating the, you do say that the post pandemic, new liberal labor market looks set to be creating a globalization that will now hit the middle class. as we've seen, how well, i mean it has the bailout shit, the middle classes to an extent. but historically,
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since the seventy's neoliberalism. is it obviously blue color working classes? well, i think i actually got a playstation that we have became become aware very much is the ability to work remotely. which means that physically obviously don't have to be at your place at work. now that means greater visibility for people in the less developed countries replace people in the rich and because you know a certain number of jobs and that mean silly from you know, tile and are allows and not i want to know new york and the new employees are cheaper, i think they would take the position of dose from the reach bank. so i would actually see those things here on the water which is actually good or less developed and for the labor market there. but the neck of the one foot bridge because it further substitute that middle class that jobs are labor
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from from the country and our labor. ready i mean, what is the state of the bubble for economist at the moment? i mean, i noticed the pandora papers released this month. no us politicians were in it. and i know that you've commented on the fact that it is. it is axiomatic amongst weston journalists. say they didn't nation journalists that capitalism and democracy are associated and you cause some doubt to them that well, i think that actually, historically, that was not true. so you know, one doesn't need to, to spend too much time because you can kind of a separate place for the last century spent. most of them, i mean i will start, i mean, not just example of fascist and it's only but countries in south america, even take a united states that was actually a slave owning entry until 865. and it was and,
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and even you can take britain which very limited branches or written with 8 percent of the population as a democracy today. so, you know, i don't even later in the us for vote for people who are up. but they're going to be late, $65.00, and then a $65.00 and movement for the right to vote. but so actually if you just look at that number of country years, different and democracy, i think that number is relatively small. it's probably like 20 percent. now of course, corporations that fund up all additions, all talking about climate change, just as the activists are, all of a sudden we see money to be made as being described by the green new deal additions
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as well as those on the right. do you think it's possible for the growth, obsessed, new liberal nations at all cost to fully comprehend them to enact policies that will stop the annihilation of the human species? you know that i have a little bit of a different opinion there because i very much role because i believe the only solution to world geography is really now the issue is in rich countries. is that politically, it's like impossible to implement seriously deal with climate change in the wall and the example that i really like it was which i think it's right in the sample is not, not on the didn't always a huge producer of what i did is now increasing exploration in the arctic and on top of that, that policy supported by majority of the population of norway and nor is a country that is quite aware of climate change is the richest country in the world
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. so the question that they asked myself, and actually i wrote about that. i said, you know, many people are fighting for, i mean, if i'm a change, if you cannot convince people in the rich, no way to reduce their income in production, that's how i'm going to convince brazil or rag or, or nigeria with incomes, which are one 5th of not. so i think this is the fundamental political issue that they really don't know how to deal with. i just finally is 27 years today. john nash won the nobel prize of his work on game theory. why do you think of game theory is useful in the current crisis? as, as on the one side we hear a get on, on the other we hear of optimistic signs that washington raging are obsessed by inequality. well, i think it is very, i mean us will actually as you know, it was actually invented into 1946 took a long time for norman and morgan stanley and sort of where the founders. and it
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gives me useful in economics, in many sense, when, particularly when you have limited competition so that each monopoly or a monopoly, or the bubble is technically ways actually taking into account the action of the other side. and it was quite a lot of a political science. it's precisely in the, on the topics that you mentioned when you had 2 superpowers in the past. it started b u. s. for us and china. so it does, i think actually a very mundane or didn't a real life to actually survival. the species promote the brand going on of it. thank you. thank you very much. it was a pleasure talking to you that's over the show will be back on wednesday. 51 years to the day of the f. b. i's arrest of activist angela davis. cold, a dangerous terrorist by president nixon. you can watch our interview on going underground. allow you to our channel until then keep in touch with our social media. let us know whether you think the chinese economic model good fight
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inequality in nato nations. ah, it was the most basic one, but i still believe we did well as a border with dial tomorrow. a couple of reviews on your wait, but i know from politicians to athletes and movies does to musicals, does it seem to every big, maybe the world has been here? let's see. okay, but ms. you can work up a budget when you get the call when you finish with. give me a glover you spoke with said basil makes dreams come true. that every one who falls in love with people look like.
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mm. join me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess what the world of politics, sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. ah, this alice help headlined 0 naughty international claims priests should not report sex crimes against children if they are revealed. during confession gets a french bishop summoned by the interior minister or we speak to a victim of child sexual abuse on the program. by that, let alone for donors will like this child who trauma is engraved in my memory. very precise details. one can not commit crimes and simply say, i'm ashamed of the crimes have committed domestic terrorists parents in america

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