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tv   Cross Talk  RT  July 26, 2021 12:30pm-1:01pm EDT

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[000:00:00;00] ah, ah ah, ah the
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ah ah ah, we welcome the cross talk, they're all things considered. peter the bill, the bike administration tells us the world faces the stark choice between democracy and authoritarianism. is this make any sense? the balance of power in the world system is moving to multiple r t, and it's not defined. why ideological preferences dangerously. washington continues to claim it has the right to define what is the legitimate world worker. i to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my,
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against george m u l e. in budapest, he's a podcast, or as a gaggle which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow were joined by dmitri bob and she's a political analyst and editor. it's me, internet media project. gentleman cross off rules and effect, that means you can jump in anytime you want. appreciate it. okay, let's go to your turn in budapest year. it's really quite interesting out by the administration, endlessly talked about diversity, diversity diversity, and we see it in their politics domestically and now we see it since they had been to the administration pushing diversity into the international system. which actually is really quite contradictory because diversity, in least nominally, is about having differences. but i think what we see here with the bio administration is an extreme form universalism. and they're covering it up under diversity because it's either or, i mean, it isn't returned to the cold war, but we are returning to
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a cold war paradigm. it is democracy versus authoritarianism. and in that ideological mindset, a kind to make sense. but in the real world, it doesn't make any sense at all. go ahead, george. it doesn't make any sense. so there is really or, or is the difference between the diversity at home and the superficial difference because when the, by the ministration ologist talk about diversity, they don't actually really mean to be of you opinions. they mean, they've got a monolithic view, the, well, they mean, you know, the superficial acid, you know, the color of the skin, what gender sexual orientation is. but that's just the monolithic. well, you, you want to get into the bite ministration. you have to subscribe to a set of doctrine, so they're not going to have a bus the bus to abuse in the administrator. and i think that now they look on the world that the rest of the world have to follow this manner,
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listing logical mindset. now of course, it's bringing them into compensation of his name with the rival. great. but it's also bringing them into conversation with countries that normally would be on their side. so when the obama administration goes to obama, so when to kenya, towards the end of his administration, he started lecturing them about gay rights. so he was getting ready to welcome its favorite song. you know, the most, the most famous canyon in the well. and what is, even when he goes and lecturing them about agonized like, and you know, when you think the right now when the by you, which is a very involved by, in this vision is getting itself in call with countries that are normally on their
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side in poland to the great, great freedom fighters, again, communism and early please be worship during all 3 trans. yeah. and now they're, you know, demonized. why? because they're not subscribing to the western ideological moment. i lost count the number of times george used the word side, meaning choosing signs. again, this is nothing to do with diversity. it is actually a 0 sum game. and in what's really quite remarkable is that russia and china are demonized as being authoritarian. but even if you accept that proposition, russia, china are not proposing in the promotion and extension of authoritarian powers. there's no evidence about whatsoever. so this is an idea what you will struggle coming just from one side. the use the word side again, go ahead. the ma,
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where you're quite cried. i think george was quite trying to cite the examples of poland and hungary as country is, which just didn't fit the morally, the idea, logical monolith or the west. and it was interesting that president, do know, full and rosa for because he's southern said just a few days ago that i would you go constrains you post by the european union. i in fact, i want your constraints that were imposed by the soviet union and the other where an example is a gas done. i mean that the idea that you should educate goals before boys, you know, it just didn't go down and stuff and he couldn't. but there is no so, so, i mean, 20 years the longest, warren american history americans are leaving, they're going to some, and i don't hear a war the self criticism. what did we do or all,
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it's all about the table are guns. you know, they're uneducated. you know, they are unable to so it's the same story. again, i told you said the board 0 sum game and all the sites is very important because, you know, we are trying to find out why is the situation so bad in europe? i mean, it's no worse than a 1989 or even in 1987. why did it happen? well, because of george be right. you're right in his article. it's a big wall of the importer, somebody most in american foreign policy article, published in the national interest. in fact, clinton even clinton and george bush. it will also support the university of instead of diversity. that was there. i mean, i remember how clinton many times came to law school with his wife lecturing russians on the, on the benefits of america way of life. the problem was that you projected the
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immature great sympathy to what direction. so, i mean, it's just a noxious, you know, when hillary started a chance in russia before the election in 2016 and when she was there, take your state. bill clinton never objective. even though that was basically undue . and you know what he said for many years when he was the president. so they basically impose this idea off against them. you know, instead of talking about compromise, talking about corporation in europe, it was about getting the critic west save in the former soviet republics from that authoritarian clark just over russia. i think that was the image or what was very well presented by glen decent. our friend and should bend in the in crosstalk in his reach and logical on our team website. do you guys driven in bel, russian culture?
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that's the headline on the article. and you look at how the situation develop basically, why did we have wars in the form of the former soviet union? the main reason why people have was, is when the situation presents an opportunity for national. so the 1st time, the actually a saw opportunity was in the end of the service union when loan to, for moving, you know, in the, in. so we bought it. so people are nationalists in on me and there it's in europe and john f, as in georgia, just trying to the moment you know, this is the moment where we can redraw bonus or preserve, or the says they are. they started the worse if i could just jump in here. gimme a, you're absolutely historically empirically, correct. let me move over to george here. but this all was counted as being pro democracy in the west. joke and dba got a spot on, you have these rabbit, a national is looking for an opportunity and then they, they then the west and there and there, underlings in the media. they wrap it all up into some kind of, you know, fluffy democratic thing. i mean,
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it wasn't had nothing to do with that whatsoever. go ahead. george. no, nothing is all across the paradigm of the exam was was, was you the law in which the west deliberately deliberately misled the public about what was really going on in the slot in. so you have in croatia, princeton, openly fashion, some of those open apologists for the fashion regime in world war 2, coming to power and browsing. the patriot, the rabid makers will discern which was reminiscent of what they were doing in the western media and western politician policy makers presented into some of these are real democrats, you know, they, they then why does like a democracy as opposed to the terrible people in belgrade pro russian row come in, all these terrible goes this, the game, you know,
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the model to be used elsewhere. so somebody meant to be like the present the game as a democrat, and then the gaining ukraine will also be on the nationalist crashes. the biologist a present that as democrats and the you know, the west. and so if you tell them, well, this guy, you know this, yara sh, you know, need to sort of a sort of like, big, like they get. and that's the west places. so, you know, they sold these nationalist islamic in a number of days as use more goals for destroying yugoslavia and weakening, racially read in russia and presented them as liberals and democrats. it's really interesting team and said, you know, again, we have this kind of false choice or false binary is that if you want more reform
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and democracy, you must be pro western an anti russian. i mean, why can't you be pro reform and pro democracy and still be pro russia? of course i'm talking about beer roots. ok. they're creating these artificial divisions that are, are completely unnecessary and do not exist in real life. go ahead. well, i think going d some presented where you wow. in his article that i mentioned, you can also test driven in russian circus. you writes that basically a directions have to make this choice between europe and russia and in the same way ukrainians cage to make a choice. i remember how the control over association agreement with the spot that it started in 2003, when president coach mart joined the joint economic space with russia. immediately mano the european commissioners to wiggle. he came to, you said you have a choice, you know, if you stay in the joint economic space,
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say good bye to that your membership, it will never be offered to you. so the ukrainians were put before the same choice . the, the west is now forcing the bell russians to make and glen decent is very right that this was the reason for the conflict on the was in the former soviet union, democracy de mer. yeah, i mean it's, it's amazing the west my forcefully 70 countries that perform a survey to public's and they have women, language, coleman history, common religion with russian by separating them from russia. the west prepares the turf for civil, wasn't making your grain of confidence and coming back to what they just said. you know, the 1st way will was some, it was, it was in that late age is early ninety's when mountains were moving in the soviet union and all this could be redrawn. you know, let me give you the example of georgia nationalists. they decide that the,
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this is the moment to take the land from the minority just from their projects from their agents. they're terrible 1st president gun. so try to do it. and she failed. and i much there was at the west change because the west had the gods to condemn gums and they can make one when they found mr. so casually, we go to a short break break. we'll continue our discussion and some real new stay with our on the the
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ah, me rather driven by dreamer shape those in me i think we dare to ask me. ah,
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the the welcome x across are all things are considered. peter, this is a home addition and to remind you were discussing some real news. ah, ah, okay, let's go back to jim in moscow here. well, we went to a quick break here. you want to finish up your point. go ahead. so some of the 1st wave off was so it was, was in the ninety's, the by the 1994. the situation stabilized, you know, the tools was find in the car box, georgia for some time stop their attacks against the party. and since all the safety and, and then it restarted in 2008 when saga really tried to retake. so why did you do that? why did the 2nd way?
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we'll see what was stopped in the pharmacy region because georgia and ukraine were promised to membership in bucharest. so the nationalists decided here goes there, but unity again, you know, we had the opportunity in the early 90 s late 81. the 17 wasn't integrating. we just did, but most of the food stamp now comes the 2nd and we had the complex in caramark and we had the civil war in ukraine. a basically you know, the reason was they do express and you know, because need to expression gave an impression of creating a new job political reality and giving you up. but you need to enter this in the form. so again, that's just that, it's great a creating a choice of either or and when you have a good part of ukraine, historically traditionally called re look towards russian errors the same. but they
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have to make this pact with the devil, george. ok. and it is the, you know, the title of this program is ideological stability because it's the ideology. all it does is great stability. yes, yes, that's it. then of course it was always the goal to scoop up. all of these are all of the countries that had been aligned with the soviet union in the warsaw pact. and those weren't align such as you saw the scoop them all up with a native and scoop up. all of the republics of the former soviet union also within native that was always the goal. and so, but they use this ology of freedom and democracy to present it as if somehow these countries, you know, they want to be free on russian influence. you know, there are to, you know, they're, they're fighting for freedom and here we are, you know, the west coming to their assistance. but in reality, the point though, you know, these are countries who have distinct histories,
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distinct the national interest of cultural relationships with russia. they don't have any interest in being scooped up within nato, which apart from anything else is leading them into perilous conflict. what is the theme in georgia and the scene? what does it prove to be in ukraine? i mean, it's never been thoughtfully explain, has been, you can want to have more transparent senior government. you want to have a government that respects rights, basic rights that are expected around the world. but you have the but to have that you have to be anti russian. it is never made any sense to me whatsoever. want to change gears a little bit. you know, you said you focused on europe and i think you're absolutely right. but not mistaken fema russians. good relations with japan, south korea, philippines. l. street. i mean they,
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there are no issues there. it's only in europe. ok. but then again, when you should to be east is a top prosy versus democracy argument false. walk on the things that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. it's only focused on europe at this point in time. go ahead. well, they're not. the states use the same argument against china. i mean it's, it's terrible. in the last few decades, china has been many and ties with japan, you know, there was a trail april, how may i meet, you know, the president. so in japan, south korea and china just presently, things seem to be moving up, you know, looking up and now they're like, just a success or chinese. so gratian in south china, sea or chinese, so aggressive east china sea. and they even don't look at the joke, different names that are actually close to china when you are right. you know, i think that the problem with much deeper than just for in 40 see all the different
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systems use certain frame. yes. so the weaknesses or the nation is that the control, the not is used germans pension for collectivism and for collective sacrifice. sometimes in the same way, you know, the american authorities are using these st demand in america. america is a nation of immigrants, and people in america, you know, melville describe very well and you won't be come and liberate the world, destroyed the tyrants, you know, destroy this payable way, which is a symbol of evil, right? so the authority gets in the united states are using it very clearly, and it's very interesting in article george be gold. jeff k, you know, kennedy, i'm like, wilson was called on making the won't say for you more can he just said make the world say for diversity. that's very, that's
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a very important distinction. you know, and i think that the moment is the early stages. we were very close doing you agreement between the soviet union and the united states. that would save a lot of lives and effort. you know, ga cannon wrote about it by the field because kennedy got killed and you know, all the people came to power. but in general, i think it should be the slogan. all the, they want to avoid another world war. we need to make the world safe for them and diversity georgia, that important thing is that for a stable, international order, all of the major stakeholders have to see the international order is being legitimate. but the ideology coming out of steroids now from the, by the administration is that, you know, if you do not participate in act in the international system as we deem then you weren't illegitimate after. and if you deem
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a major power like rush and china is not being legitimate than the order itself, can be legitimate because you're denying them being stakeholders. yes, and that's why the russians repeatedly emphasized the united nations charter and the united nations as a whole, as the very basis of the international system. and the reason they do is that we created this of the system of the security council in which the great powers are given a veto. in other words, we have a mechanism in place in which way where we get it to issues in which grape, our interests are on the line, the great right to veto. and that created these, the stability that was absent in the league of nations because it was, you know, you can say ok, you know, no one can do anything that will threaten the interests of soviet union rush. no
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one's going to think that will threaten the interest of china and so on. so that the, that was why the united nations has worked. where the league of nations failed. because the great li, oh, there's nothing in it for me. i mean, i don't, i don't know and that's why what the west is talking about the rules based all the is simply on the arbitrary rules that the nato power just cobbled together at any particular moment to justify what they do. and to demonize the di, legitimize what, you know, great, like china and russia. you know, we don't, can find the on the list. we use that the rules and we are held to be in violation of the rules. what interesting, georgia is that remember samantha power, she lamented rushes use of the beat, and it's really quite incredible i would say to samantha power, it shows the system works because that's how it was supposed to work. that was,
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that was the whole point. that's why they put that in the veto. they don't want to do what they, why in the legal nations room, you know, that failed. so we can do this again. you know, if you know this, this, this is hiding behind the close of democracy. but well, let's look at the record. let's look yugoslavia, let's look at iraq. let's look at syria, afghanistan. we go on and on. i mean, it's really quite incredible. there's this idea logical offensive his garnered very little games. ok. and ends in failure every single time. and we have, we have the bi administration actually doubling down on it and, and if you just pointed out in the 1st part of the program, no interest section whatsoever. why it didn't work, go ahead. well, you're right. and not only did fail spectacularly in the, in libya or in a game where it's obvious. but it also failed the former soviet union. i mean the
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idea, george a demon it's, it's bailey. right. but the idea that the western interference can help you more chrissy is absolutely counterproductive. glenn decent shows it very well in his article. at the opinion website. basically, the majority of the russians on law 40 last or even phone. or, you know, you get the least popular person. they're looking for someone who could replace shackle and preserve with russia. someone like barber ego. but the west, the narrative is out in only $200.00 k. you know, the, that's the problem with, with the military and i would just, they have only one can do that. they have only bonds area. and you know, so that out in the colonels, that's very productive. you know, when does economy start was working badly when you have
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a role in the money and outside interference is in lockets relations. and that's exactly what happened in beller was in your brain because western influences. that's what happened in russia regarding what have step down from the political scene back in the early ninety's. if there was real competition, you know, not impeded by western financial injections on because the work has been helping lindsay and the obligation, he stays there because he opens the controls some of these michael, right. so and talking about relations between conscious, you said europe and asia, well, basically similar processes in europe. you know, there were 2 attitudes, one, you know, be strong against russia. the other one, represented by the brand and the others negotiate with russia and the brands. strategy worked in asia, it gave there were 2 approaches. mon, the japanese one is like stand for, you know,
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until you see the islands no peace treaty. and then there was the chinese or did you go, she'd be cramped, you know, corporate and the chinese no variance worked while the japanese you know, they just, they what they are 60 years or 70. 80 years later, they just stay wherever they are. so these entered, it also doesn't work with russian. this control last word here. i mean as far as the west, fixation on there was once they pick their candidate, that's what they called diversity. ok, i'm going to have to edit my one thing my guess in budapest, and here in my going to think be worth watching is here in phoenix. remember ross? ah ah, i
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when i was the wrong when old job, don't you? yes. to see out the thing because the after an engagement equals the trail, when so many find themselves well, the parts we choose to look for common ground in oh right now there are 2000000000 people who are overweight or obese. it's possible to sell food. that is fatty and sugary and faulty and addicted . not at the individual level. it's not individual willpower. and if we go on believing that will never change that, that industry has been influencing very deeply. the medical and scientific establishment, ah, what's driving the reason? it's corporate,
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me the ah, the restrictions i'm and 3 passes about curious rallies the freedom around the world alone, medics to argue that people should get jobs, protect others and not just and so you have to balance and personal choice with what's good for the most people at the end of the day, life is a balance of ratings. you can't wrap people up in cost and will pull ever while the us investigate new york state handling of co home to despite accusation to

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