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tv   Going Underground  RT  June 14, 2021 8:30am-9:01am EDT

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thanks so much eric for coming on. the g sounds for a group, but i don't know whether you think it could stand for globalization. you said before that globalized door globalism, injected globalization is dead, has been dead for a while. was the g 7? basically another funeral. well, thank you for having the i wouldn't call the funeral it it's, it's a small party, you know, listen, i grew up my high school. i went to big high school kids just in my class. well, if you want have a party with just famine people you can do. that's okay. but i tell you these, these guys, i didn't go very far in life. maybe go to a fire live because they wanted to nationalist enough. well, no, they were too expensive too. too much into themselves and they thought they were
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hot, they were bullies and they could run the world for the was much larger than that. and you've said that you can trace current society as, as configured in western europe to, to new liberal reforms after the fall of the berlin wall. you see, one of us trades of the world has basically failed. they've failed western europe has failed. the 28 crash. i think you said the china failed to understand quite how cataclysmic, the so called west and economic crisis was the we're still living with today despite the impact of the pandemic. well, i think it all transpired at the end of the cold war and as we all know, america and west one, the war are somewhat
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a lot co since then, i think western society has gone on and is your logic cope who say within their own country they thought they got the magic formula, which is global, or liberalism, taking around the world liberal market economics. electoral democracy, all these things they think is what made them succeed. and they're gonna universalize and push it to the extreme in their own countries. and that led to the neo liberal doctrine, both economically and politically and socially, if you will. and i think i have run aground in the past 10 years. they've gone too far and left too great unraveling of their own societies. and a large number of a vast majority of the countries that adopted those values and those systems are
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not succeeding. developing countries among developing countries, post cold war china is the only major country that had really prosper and delivered for large number of people. delivered to them a better life in the world. and the analysis that you'll see in the west for that is because it abandon socialism. and you've said actually the years between 949 and 979 of state socialism were the fundamentals upon which the chinese 21st century was built. this is, this is being evolution from the time of the creation of the people's republic. well, yeah, i had said that and i think you know, people miss and miss since through the history of modern times they, they tend to divide it into the 1st 30 years and their mouth to about lay in
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a big shopping market reform, which china to what it is today, but i've always said that without the 1st year, the 2nd that the market with mom would not have been in the 1st 30 years. obviously we had a lot of problems and a lot of mistakes. but it was in the 1st 30 years. we go like expectancy and 1949 valley about 40 or i think what, what do you want you and i live, i'll live life expectancy in 1949 when people to publish mounted to already in the late sixty's in the late 1967, i think a literacy rate went from negligible to over 80 percent among young people in emily, 970 industrial base, was built in the 1st 30 years and more importantly, national independence, china,
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5 years on the 8th invite it and that allowed it to pursue it. don't pass after the 1st 30 years that the people at the public so thank shopping for warms, were successful in many ways because the foundation was late in the 1st 30 years. and profound. you've argued has been the relationship between political power and capital. you claim that will these g 7 leaders in capital exerts disproportionate influence over politics here in britain, in nature of countries. whereas in china, capitalists just don't have that power. well, i'm a capitalist. i got no power in the medical power anyway. so the, i think what has gone astray in the, where in america and maybe in europe and who is after the cold war,
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they've gone on the new liberal path where the capital has the interest and risen above the interest of the nation state. so capital began to pay politics and they looked after their interest. so that's how you see the wealth capital in society and solidified authentication in america and west and indeed the quality has exploded their food banks down the street from me here. remind us, what is the precise difference between capitalism in nato, the liberal country and capitalism. in china, we don't have capitalism. we have a market economy, we do have a capital and we have people like me, will manage yourself a whole capitalism to me, means a market economy that you managed in
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a way that it generate efficient times the allocate resources efficiently. capitalism to meaning somehow capital, the interest of capital rise above the interest of friday of the whole and they capture the cost for their own benefit. and that we don't want in this country. you often extol the virtues of merit socratic, communist party congress. the definition. philosophically of meritocracy, easy and equality. you don't see the dangers of the increase in inequality in china, not just because of how successful in terms of market the economics china is become because of the system itself based on meritocracy. well, i've always said that china, india has america craddick governance. but i never caught meritocracy. i think there's an important distinction there. kind of governments being able,
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people can raise through the rack and, and become decision makers. and that's what matters govern me. so you want capable people or test it through the years and just like a good company, you will have people that are capable, your hire them at the bottom and they move, they food, their track record, and you give them more possibility and how that's how it government should work and you see the future enjoying that in terms of combat to equality, a return to some of the more socialist marxist principles that have arguably been lost. well, yes i, in the past we've seen a great transformation of china and a lot, 9 to 10 years. the, i think the paradigm shift occurred in 2012 with the 18 party congress. and china
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had shifted from the 30 or 40 years prior to that, which was their headlong pursuit can be comic growth at whatever the cost actually and that were shifting away from that and towards what caught more balance. well, balance development, which really mean a common prosperity, a more equitable society. so there were a lot of side effects of market economics that we had pursued for decade. equality is one of them. environmental degradation, it's another, an odd and corruption was another. so all of these issues needs to be addressed, and i think there's been a, a great transformation where the chinese society in china self perception and the national aspiration of the chinese people in my generation, especially among young people in my generation. we were primarily concerned about
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china being poor and lacking development. if you ask younger generation those who are born post 990 and close to 1000, there 34000000 on by the way. there of course they want economic opportunities, but their primary concerns are about any quality and sustained, but sustainability for the future. so if you're a viewer in a nato country watching this interview, you're going to be thinking, hang on a minute. china is responsible for genocide every other day. we hear about this alleged genocide in june. jang, and arguably, arguably a connected to china's lack of interventionism given it's afghan, has done the chinese officials now talk about and you have no free press and you're not allowed to. the chinese people is 400000000 young people. they're not allowed to understand the history of civilizations from all different points of
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view. what sort of society is that? well, if that's what they want to believe, they can believe. if that's true, china going nowhere. if that's true, china would never have achieved that. that has already it's he you know, it's the young chinese you, extraordinary knowledgeable about the world and that's the back. we have the post 94000 generations, extremely lifelong about. i mean, i'm not saying wikipedia, is that great, but i mean, we compete is banned in china. yeah. but, well, basically you can still get cnn. let me, let me give you one exam. ok. i'm so sorry. sorry. yeah, that's, yeah. but listen, i think that the year 2019 alone about a 120 a 130000000 chinese people went abroad and came back is the largest
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car in the outbound part of the country in the world by far so. so to say that somehow chinese people don't know about what's going on in the world. i think that they're battling mistaken goal still be there more from the leading chinese venture capitalist and political scientists often break ah,
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me. ah, phoenix does actually got an uncovered face men's clothing and showed a whole stuck. it's a kind of us can feminism name is camina. i bought it up, put a human, someone with a whole lot of that it was, it was a lot of up on the job, but you know, that was that she lives in one of the most dangerous and patriarchal provinces of afghanistan, cost like she which time i miss that. sure. no, i shall do that as well. yes, that up. anyway, i'm glad you got me knows that she does her best to fight for women's rights. i am not you guys know that
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dollars, you know the, what i do, i know that the season here by her nickname, the king was i got it much other than it was really good. i welcome back. i'm still with venture capitalists, and political side is eric lee. you said the europe the europe project is basically finished. obviously a lot of people in britain agree with you because they voted for breakfast and the largest democratic vote in history in this country. do you see the response to china's rise in terms of sanctions, in terms of what many suddenly chinese officials believe is propaganda in the western media. these are the only responses left for brussels and stroudsburg.
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well, i wouldn't be so kind of the mystic about europe and about china. i don't think your project finishes, certainly in some trouble. i think it's in trouble because probably because of take them on a overly logical interaction for some time. and i think some corrections are needed and i'm optimistic about the future of europe and what the correct itself. and we know that, but in terms the relationship between europe and china and the western china. we talked about the meeting, the just for late in the year, i was just looking at the numbers of countries. and that's the largest 3 largest economy of us, japan in germany, get who is the largest trading partner,
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all 3 china in the u. k. china, biggest info market. there's 200000 chinese students studying u. k. end of our cities right now. paying $1700000000.00 pounds a year and tuition is probably the largest thought the foreign revenue in k universe days. so they're extraordinary interconnectivity between china and all these different countries. very, there is the, in the collectivity in china just replaced, as you say, germany as britain's big, simple market. but you knew about the sanctions, what the businessmen think, watching this program, knowing the 3rd party sanctions, china is now saying they're going to retaliate against us. trump era sanctions that have been continued through to biden. what is a business? what supposed to think despite all the big figures of huge india connectivity about the future is this is, this is unstable. how can i be sure that governments here in europe and i'm going
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to sanction me for some element in the supply chain? well, it's unfortunate and i think, i don't feel like i said, you know, china is the largest rating power in the world today, and it's the largest trading nation in the history of the world. so if, if the country is one of a and they, i fully china, they're going to be isolating. but i mean, china is built in to the economic world cannot exist. and i know that it's been reducing the amount of bonds us bond between buying us debt piley's increasing its now $9000000.00 up $1.00 trillion dollars of us debt. and why, why is china so interested in, in optimism for the american dream. as we've seen, the recent instability in the united states, i'm not sure optimism is the right way to describe the national relationship. china,
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obviously there's a lot of matter why, why in the dead? because the economic way to chime and of the trading relationship equation has the balance going well, mentally. i mean, i'm not a economist, economist, i believe they will tell you that the u. s. consuming too much and making a saving and that, that's why it's in balance. you know, one way out of the reliance on the federal reserve, which obviously that is into linked to and lots of talk even in nature, countries about the mass printing of money here in britain bag of england and the federal reserve is crypto currency was china clamping down so hard on crypto currency mine is that would make countries all over the world in the developing world, independent of a federal reserve,
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which arguably operates for us interests. well, i'm not an expert currency, but what i'm read is there are 2 issues. one is extraordinary. energy come to mind calling us so i think that's one of the reasons they are trying to control that. and the 2nd reason, obviously it's a currency that poly regulated at the moment. so they're probably out of potential for financial. i mean, the us federal reserve i think are cracking down crypto currency in the future. i think clinical currently does have a role. i think countries the cooperative work work together to, to, to, to develop the rules of the road. but i think the very early stage, yeah, i mean those who are full of your current job at solar energy or any development
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actually is that they should be which is different from the other current. that means i think china is at the bottom of that. and already the united states is looking into that too, but i mean, when you talk about regulation, that will be the united states, regulate, regulating the dollar. china prefer that. no, i think china would be regulating its own. think the army. i mean, fundamentally what is, what, what are the big differences and perhaps reforms that nato countries fulfilled suffering the legacy of the 20 way crisis could learn from china or the history just to, to different. i mean, britain, have the civil service. people say vaccination program here in britain benefited from the creation of the national health service in the, in the post war period. are there other lessons that western european countries can
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learn from china recovering from the impacts of neo liberal policies? i think the western countries are really, instead of trying to develop a way to keep china down, they need to reform what the, where america and europe need reform, bad like they need to reform their systems to make them work better, less politics, less ology and more delivering practical good and practical benefits for their people. that's what governments tell their people all the time in the nato countries. that's exactly what they were trying to to. and in fact, you know what, what the big issue, i think with western country is that somehow they have commenced themselves that there's only one form of democracy as call liberal democracy. and they've made this length of liberalism and democracy,
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only liberal society can give them a crack. and i think that's false. there could be other forms of democratic governance. i, for one thing, china is very democratic and it's not liberal. democratic. western countries tend to believe that somehow you have to be liberal democratic and in fact, i think liberalism has left to a lack of democracy in western countries as make the west less democratic. so i think that's something that we ought to consider in western countries. and yet the peoples of europe, the vast majority of them are sure they are the ones living in the democratic societies and you are not i, i think, you know, the west tends to measure of democracy, my procedure. and what that for liberalism is,
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it's about procedures. so if you follow these procedures correctly or follow these things correctly, you find the condition nation democratic. you might be a starving to bat, you're democratic. i think, well, the chinese, at least for me, i think democracy ought to be measured by outcome by resolve. so if you're delivering a better life for a large number of people, vast majority on people. of course you're democratic. if you're not delivering hub democratic argument, i mean some may be asking, as we hear the rules based international order being recited here by up all additions all the time that. ready nature is losing patience with china. boris johnson sent the biggest war ship in the royal navy towards china's maritime borders. china is allowed 400 bases in circle your country. and obviously
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companies, big companies who are way obviously banned from the 5 g infrastructure of this country. it is if it is, if the torque is being ratcheted up or multiply and the and the communist party of china is trying its best talking a bit more the wolf diplomacy. i don't know whether she jim brings against him. now, the wolf differ busy, but it's as if it doesn't realize how and circled and how isolated it is in the world despite all the interconnectivity isolated militarily under siege. i think that's an unfortunate development. i think it's contrary to what we know are the facts on the ground and what we know from history. so i've always said that china, you know, 2030 years ago, china, chad, the chinese before this idea called people rise. they wanted to rise people
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at the time a lot of people thought that you know that i was not credible. and a very few people believed it. but looking back, i think people rise has already happened. we went from a for a growing country to the great industrial power house that china is today in merely 2 generations, 2nd largest economy and the largest economy by purchasing power parity. yes, china has invaded a single country, not a single shot, fired and unprecedented in human history. if you reveal survey history, the rise of every great power on the higher the roman empire on the british empire to america manifest destiny to the rise of modern japan, modern germany. almost all of them actually,
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all of them were accompanied by great flesh colonization of entire continents killing off slaves. much of the entire population invaders, wars, and china thrive had been faster and bigger than them all. so far and not a shop have been inspired. and that's a great accomplishment. and instead of celebrating this accomplishment encouraging its further development, we have these hostilities that developing a my western powers. and i think that's an unfortunate and disappointed maybe even in the global south recognize the chinese achievements. i know the, the programs in latin america and in africa inside these to asia. here in britain, you probably know about media censorship. we have julianna's and being tortured up
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the road here in bel much prison. according to the un, china's network c g n defacto band here by regulators. how can china get this message out to the world that it comes in? peace. if every time any official medium tries to speak it's suppressed. and, and journalism, arguably in nato countries, is, well, some people accused of being captured by the military industrial complex. well, i tell you, i don't have any idea how to get the message across, but it went to the west. the media don't want to portray china. that's truthful to their own people. that's their loss. and they are doing the service to their own people. and they're losing credibility. i'm on 1400000000 chinese people as well. and i think, you know, it's on eric lee. thank you. that's it for the show what we'd like
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a wednesday when i remember jan needs with joe biden in geneva until then keep in touch my social media and tell us of using major major media reporting on china as fast. ah ah, ah. driven adrian shaped by those in me i think we dare to ask in
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these are the 4 people who pull the trigger. i survive something on survival. why this is the hardest thing that i had. the face was not having a face at a low patient life. accepted, accept the fact that i made that appointment. we had no fears. del change pretty fast for shots. different stories behind the bullets. join me every thursday on the alex simon show, and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business, i'll see you then, me ah,
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what i do, but if you'd like, case studies just make it to the transformations over the past decade. advance mega project. most go for 2021. the largest international congress on mega city development. where the 1st us russia stomach since the biden administration looming, and the american president called his russian counterpart. but all the craft, perhaps setting the tone for the upcoming face to face the celebration in israel, mixed with the durability of the countries. new coalition governments, which is ended benjamin netanyahu. the 12 year rule joe biden promised his half a 1000000000 those his of cobit jobs, the poorer nations. but it seems not for everyone. we look at how washington's foes are being left behind.


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