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tv   Cross Talk  RT  May 15, 2021 12:00am-12:31am EDT

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it. doesn't become the hand who's hit. the ground and then you get in the not everyone was fortunate enough to make it to the hospital before palestinian children have been killed in an airstrike after israel ramps up military pressure on gaza with ground forces at the border joining the air assault. rocks and bullets 7 demonstrators are reportedly killed and over 100 more injured as they face off with israeli security forces in the west bank. those are world news headlines for this hour on behalf of the archie international team thanks a lot for watching and we hope to see you again soon.
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hello and welcome to crossfire of course all things considered i'm peter lavelle who is a fascist well given the state of our politics a fascist is your political opponent even mortal enemy tragically and dangerously the term fascist is more times than not a political slur to destroy someone's character fascism is an odious ideology and political traffic is we all should be careful when referencing. cross talking fascism. i'm joined by my guest lattimer goldstein in providence he's
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the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in budapest we crossed to george simu alley he is a pod counselor at the gaggle which can be found on you tube rumble and the locals are gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means he can jump in anytime he want and i always appreciate it let's go to vladimir 1st let me i'm very glad to have you enjoy or john the program to talk about this very important topic because being a trained academic historian in modern european and russian history and still dabble in it because i get to talk to very interesting people like yourself and george on this program i'm very disturbed that mainstream media and in. political political diatribes of the people used to term fascist it's a very important term it's very dangerous term i think we have to use a lot of precision when using it because if you don't you minimize the the fascistic experience that was in the 20th century and what could possibly have
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happened in the future so i gave your reflection here i mean i'm sure you hear the same things i hear how do you feel when you hear he's a fascist she's a fascist go ahead. yeah i think you know that is a double edge sword it is even if dangerous and boys oh it's remember geishas 1st of all this thing has it to demand eyes your point of going to call them a freshness is not very good but by using it may be chipping in to term we actually ran the knees of me saying the freshness of a system fish is rich can it be you know meat there is you know there is a definite elements of cultural or legal mentality which eventually you know result in certain actions which can be called faces of the storm you know as you said have to be used very completely to be analyzed because you know i for example in the movement which were seen in the united states in the u.s. what they call themselves and define their faces you know who are the. faces kind
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of thinking it was a shit what they do so we really have to be very careful how when where do you is and i think it's really important to come back to the jurors in understand what it was or behind it george said the same question to you because it's over use makes it meaningless and that's what i find terrifying as i stressed in my introduction my 1st question of vladimir it is a very odious ideology and if we don't keep tabs on it in the right way then it can be applied to anything and if it can be played to anything it doesn't mean anything go ahead george. that's exactly right so i think that if we think about one of the smashing of the many in fact it was obviously. a political movement or a series of political movements that arose in the autumn of the will of war and again a response of a collapse several of the european empires the collapse of the states economic
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dislocation and then the year all the rest the great inflation in germany of the great depression and so on and so the fashion might be located in the political historical phenomenon and. look even within that phenomenon there were a wide variety of strike all i mean it wasn't may have been an ally or was lenient but listening is fascism was very different though national socialism and that exam was very different wrong frank frank it was a time very different from 40 so if you have to somehow really tried to find really what aspects all of these movement has are common and then you know to extend it into your chair what is it that we find dangerous impregnate about any possible revivals of passions and and i think we're in the blood in him mention her and see her. and was likewise mad
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then you can see the the parallels between that rational phenomenon of a 100 years ago namely the result of 2 political violence and name calling and etiology and the opportunism of supposedly democratic politicians use street moms in order to achieve their political goals and i think that's a kind of a service the legacy of passion movements of those types i think in a such of a. tacit point because you know the way the term is used today in the mainstream it has some kind of singular meaning or conjures up an image or something like that and that's simply not true that is a historical here because i mean it's quite fashionable and i can understand because of the cold war is that you know fascism is the right and then communism is
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the left here but you know and you can make that argument in a in that's fine but i don't think it's satisfactory at the same time but to me because it's not really left to right in georgia picked up on and already it's a set of political practices ok and i think that and i think in its very astute on the left to say all this i think that fascism is a right as phenomenon and people on the right or that way but no it's about political practices and that doesn't have a political got grounding in left or right maybe what we're finding out if it's actually in the center go ahead lot of there i would say the size of the mention the word stress is sort of kind of you know cultural sort of movement there's a you know i mean you know it was you know we have to find them to understand what it's not but you know that we may need historians sions of that version you know
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observe nowadays is there's a cultural got a phenomena which somehow religious certain certain kind of we also thinking it's paul's some go to be in this enjoy your job enjoy music a lot you know a. harmony in the grass projects in the future but right now in the present there is some kind of obstacle you know in last 8 years it was clear you know grades are i hear jews you know who are many as. well but you know we get more the on and we see the same person. you know in this movement for example hall and try. the faces and whole of human kind of a better guy we're going to go now as a you know that for many people say i'm a liberal democrat the democrats and you know that there was greed and obama will be greed you know fans i think if you know a and a biden was are going to lead over this scramble this mean an obstacle in those who
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help this is the same guy mentality it just can be seen again and again or again you know in united states they have this concept of war wall of people who know who see this musical kind of nonsense or the best of their way or or you know like now if only we're going to lead this usual legacy or way where everyone who you know there were some others you know in ukraine for example of that range of where do they came up with this sort of once a surreal gomery a tsunami like those who are not going to know who are so they are aware of their leaders you know rushed over to it once we got to you know we'll bring it up you know do you want to sell it in sort of you know there was all this political correctness think uniformly will go there you know but this is just basically simplistic money. out of. the wall bazan needs another reality it is also going to be jens jew knew that we're like whoa whoa whoa now i know and
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this is just you know of at least a week it's that he just needs kind of something for sometime he culturally 3 may differ but it is what we see again and again in all forms yet it's a completely exclusionary either you know in if you don't know you're not part of the in-group knowing and this is what it makes very exclusionary and very dangerous as i said in my introduction you could end up being a mortal enemy ok because you you don't know the truth you you know george and it was brought up here you know this kind of mythical past but i think a modern version of 21st version of it is to destroy the past because the only way you can have a president. it is acceptable and a. future that you want you must completely obliterate the past but we've seen this historically tried over and over again and it never ends in a good place and this is being done what i would say on the left go ahead george. well that is an excellent point peter because what most people. have traditionally
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not on the snow in that what we term fashion is really a dynamic of the restive culturally and nihilistic of phenomena and yet people are always going to use that that's when a conservative cleric non-conservatives and i mean as i mentioned earlier you know people refer to it or see it as an ashes or it was a clerical conservative same with franco american conservatives i mean even if they have flashes allies and so what you talked about the these mobs in the street who share their own statues who chaired down history and who you know just see or see the tradition as just of the a relic that needs to be swept away that that is goes to the heart of our rations and because i got that it is exactly that was the mentality of hitler and the head of europe was in a conservative you have absolutely no interest in poland in history or german
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culture he was a nihilist and he is the models that he unleashed to go on books that he had back and then you know they used the in the parallels between the models that were tearing down statues last year and who go around today your own eyes neither of us that there is raising all of this is a white supremacy this is white imperialism this is anglo-saxon political tradition which means that it's just slavery and the oppression of the colored people by the white man the lesson of this got well in the jar scenery the interesting thing for me and watching all this you know. changing names of libraries i taking down statues how i can anyone explain to me how does that end systemic racism when you take a statue away how does that how does how does it solve their perceived problem go ahead george before we go to the break. well it was it doesn't and yet it is and
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it's really just no matter at all you know jarrah. the public into accepting your generally you know your close us because of course you. find out all of the tradition you're a defender of white supremacy your defend. your well if you're a daily had a job in it we're going to go to a break here but you know you mentioned the right word your terrorized for it ok we're going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on fascism state with our kids. in states is lot of democracy can you just not a country that's sounded like deals and so country that is founded on slim fruit and you know boxing it's
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a country that's failing to pay. you know qualities i think has created being surrounded and produced both the mastic ali and the road is what. a new gold rush is underway in ghana thousands of ill equipped workers are flocking to the gold fields hoping to strike it rich. as they are particles that wherever children are torn between gold. a family was very poor i thought i was doing my best to get back to school which side will have the strongest appeal. welcome back to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing fascism.
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ok let's go back of a lot of here let me in the 1st part of the program we discussed the varieties of what could be described as fascist movements fascist ideas fascist practices here and now we can and you brought it up so i'm going to go back to you on of this whole phenomenon woke ism and it's exclusively focused on race and it's coming from what i think it's fair to say from the left here and it's completely self-referential because. you there's nothing you can do about your you're the color of your skin you're just born pout way ok and this is so there's no in this kind of woke asst. ideology there is no redemption because you were born an oppressor i mean that is such a self-referential ideology and george used the word at the very end of the 1st part of the program it terrorizes you go ahead lot of where you know you know it
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1st of all is bay's not doing you know on a reality or not in a serious and how this is all sort of historical circumstances going on so i'm going to go thinking you know say you know walk us now with all their might columbus you know imagining is it like to live on these shores he was totally a deal be in america under my eyes are at stake. and then the bad white man showed up and it was with the lead of. he's it was in we're fine and dandy but this is a this is a kind of fish this sink in that you know has you do it in future and sometimes the office of the group will know that if you don't mention states that you know. and when they saw this threat of the danger i mean from spain you know what would they do they came up with this idea of separate why isn't thousands of people there even their hearts out hold vigil to find it a solution they didn't find
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a solution this is this is just draft of their rising divisions which is a way rather than sort of war again all together toward some goal of you know meaningful you story going to be used you know as a solution if it's to i get somebody who needs to secularize destroy this a more clear and you know this is so destructive ultimately and we've seen as being repeated again and again this this tie even scapegoating some going to ruben called in by elimination it will get somewhere this is this is ultimately oppression but i would add one more thing the danger in all this it i think of the situation of the states is a really good to go that high priest intellectuals you know it again people were participating now you know with well it just crowd screams and yells you know down with these down over there it's one thing but intellectuals will say guys let's look at things historic to let's do let's acknowledge would we don't know all the truth let's let's be kambal you know now these intellectuals kind of feed it if you
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could with a kind of a theories created it was kind of more and more information about the abuses of whoever they want to accuse so that less of it dangerous but i'm going as a so i leave a little hole my journalist a silence for internet accused all all well and you know denies it because it we don't have a dialogue and that you know if he's up to to while it's there well they're cowards and tended to say it they're cowards are i think it's a professional managerial class they'd legitimize their fear you know you know george i don't want to go down this rabbit hole too deep here but you know let's look at the at issue of of racism in and slave lee and reparations i mean in if you look at you know white people didn't invent slavery were white people were enslaved . the old all through history ok and the historical fact is that it was white people that ended slavery as we know it today and the world almost completely
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eradicated it it still does exist in some pockets but it was it was and i have to give the the english the credit you know they said this is not good we're going to use our our vast sea power we're going to start hounding these people to destroy this trade i mean then that happened over the last few 100 years from time immemorial there is been slavery but you look to these wolk is walking around it it's something that's been around for 300 years i mean it's so a historical and it's cynical go ahead george. exactly right and the exact. colored people are not the only ones who have been in slavery and as you say slavery has been around since the beginning of time and you know i mean you're going to talk about philosophy remember the the great an 8 year old philosophy revolved around the mosque the slave dialectics because he said that a crucial moment in the growth of self-consciousness of man in other words slavery
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was just went part and parcel of war and the new orleans labor congar all of the conquer so there's nothing at all that this is uniquely whites against colored people but what's really happening now is that big list any historical that the destruction of people's lives and careers if they refuse to follow our culture because what we have not as black lives matter is a cult and he demands going of the beast just as you know the fashions leaders of the offspring of obese and so if you follow. football in the in the united kingdom before every single match every single day all of the players at the signal take the lead and no one has any choice on it no one says well i don't really see why we have to take a need for this organization black lives matter i mean i you know there's a lot of very. unsavory aspects of this organization no everybody has to take the
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knee and if you don't take money your can feel the her off of. the sporting wealth or it is and i saw you see this through out of the culture of the people you know expressed some skepticism as they will you know why and why didn't you know why why do i have to accept this idea well you know you do have to because if you don't you will lose your position and worse you know there was also the criminal penalties that might come. down the pike because you know you're might be deemed gaging in hate speech and so then you. are it is so you can see how this mentality now melts together with the state and to create a mission to help those who follow you know the correct ideological doctrine yeah and it obviously creates a chilling effect ok you do you don't want to express an opinion because you don't want the wrath of these people here you know
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a lot of merit george and i'm going to date us ok on this program here i have to admit i was very interested in the frankfurt school the critical theory i mean i read about it was very very interesting to me it was a new iteration of marxism basically putting in culture and taking out race here i never thought it would be a user's manual i guess that's what really caught me off guard here glad i'm here to talk about that there because this is it i'm not just saying this is a marxism now this is what we call the in the in the literature western marxism the frankfurt school many of their members came to the united states during and after the 2nd world war and became very influential thinkers ok there's a man named martin j. he's written a wonderful book about it if you want to read about it i think it's called the dialectical imagination fascinating book i've read it a number of times but like i said i didn't take it as a user's manual it was actually a warning for me go ahead lot of. yeah and fortunately you know we basically do
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have to go back to their roots and i believe you know that economics lies are the foundation of many things an improvement of humor alive it is fundamental in substituted of all there with some kind of enugu and of civil affairs and the identity politics are or any round of play said it's nearsighted so maybe it's easier to do you know why jesus had to introduce some kind of new legislature than the change economic center and make you know routine but a good saying i know why that's why a lot of intellectuals wells are there it's much easier to deposit but there are it reference to our previous discussion as they were i would say here we have like i. don't champions or who walk eason's and they're tired of it so what else should have a competition for example is that these years that libya they blundered into sort of not exists and believe that it's out and it would have us right now we have
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numbers that would do leave elation in our have a sliver market then another leave is destroyed when to now they bring slaves so that let's that there's an embargo sickle result of this kind of a very it may your big implication of someday of you know sort of points of the who are the g. whether you think that you know what i view is a bit and you want to institute some kind of what would you you end up just throwing it any down and sort of just an hour that little of gains of people selling you know in slave people in the same way people who live fighting so this is a bit off and you know. the whole this this project seized on 'd this that yeah i mean if george i mean absolutely i mean they got the i mean this is just one gross form of virtue signaling because it's really people here it's kind of white liberal suburbanites you know professional manager class that push this here they donate money like it's it's kind of somehow absolves them of the of their collective go.
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which i thought we were supposed to believe in collective guilt ok and then they just kind of walk away from it in a bit for me it's kind of like you people go into a room they they take a page out of the grenade they toss it in then they leave the room i mean there's not much downside for them but everybody else gets a trap no go ahead george. yes exactly and of course it's much worse than just paradox i mean there's a gross agenda to it because you can get people really slogans splash splash and splashes they move into ukraine and align themselves real those who actually rational. and explaining that it's the russians 1 who are the passion is the same thing of course happened 3 in yugoslavia where the serbs led by milosevic who actually wanted to maintain the multinational multidenominational yugoslavia want to keep it going they were dubbed the trash it. crashes the quality is. all in just
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in croatia with the democrats so it's all of this is a kind of there's a this very sinister game that has been made and again look at you look at obama by the terrible at all of this i mean what he did domestically how he use this a slogan and demonizing his political opponents with it with this racist clashes but you know look at again where when what he did in syria where you know you have a very cynical way aligned insult with a written book who exactly raised its we're in complete oppressors you know whether it's oppressive though and we can george we can add to that we can add to that every single year waffen s.s. units you know they commemorate the collaboration with the nazis in ukraine and baltic republics the state department tony blinken where are you i thought you were all about you know norms ok and values they never say anything about it it's like
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a little cult. atif of these people here are gentlemen that's all the time we've had fascinating discussion here i want to thank my guests in providence and in budapest and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.t.c. next time and remember cross-talk will. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. new york is really what america is about. when our mayor took office he was elected because of his campaign on our city being
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a tale of 2 cities that have not and those who have not are usually the ones who wind up being very hard out of the city has always wanted to forget about iowa city has wanted to forget about the people who are buried there wanted to forget about the fact that there is a potter's field but there is a place where difficult stories are hidden the fact they were using inmates to maintain this act is burial site where 1000000 souls are buried where so much of new york city history is buried is the commands of the inequality that exists in this city for centuries. israel media a reflection of reality. in
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a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. high salacious community. are you going the right way or are you being lead somewhere. direct. what is true what is faith. in a world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. or in maine in the shallows. you. simply. emily yeah it pissed me off so i. used the polls looking to elicit yeah. yeah and you know because you. thought oh man i just. stop all the stuff. you know
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and. yet you know that's the. sub although you know i didn't. know pulp oh you know. something oh yeah. i think i knew all the. way to the cape of good hope with the song reciprocated with squirrels in a giant way you know as it does that. killer waves form here. the swirling winds in these ponds so very tricky this is where the indian and you go should be. on the list and you can be at the. resort it will be almost what they want on the buckle but he would know well not only if you sleep by. the way they. are.


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