tv Cross Talk RT April 6, 2021 12:00am-12:31am EDT
because of the. pressure of protests in europe over code restrictions as mixed messages from governments leave people confused and angry. we go where we work we can plan together we can see our loved ones anymore and we think there's absolutely against our fundamental human rights. us in the state of vermont defends prioritising nonwhite residence for the colbert shot a move that some have condemned as racist. amid a surge in anti asian hate crimes in the us in martial arts center in california the state by far the worst affected open self-defense classes for the most vulnerable. and another scandal hits a new case boards as
a questions are raised over a probe into 2 british olympians and how they were tested for steroids. a colleague nicky aaron has your next update in just about an hour's time coming up on r.t. international now though it is crosstalk in the u.k. and ireland when you get in is next stay with us. hello and welcome to crossfire are all things are considered i'm peter lavelle ukraine is back in the news and not in a good way escalating rhetoric could lead to more conflict within ukraine who is driving this impending conflict in why or is this all about isolating. russia.
discussing ukraine i'm joined by my guest llangollen in oxford he is the director of the crisis research institute and here in moscow we're joined by dmitri bomb each he is a political analyst and editor in us me internet media project gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was appreciated when i was going to work for us in oxford market there's a lot of dangerous and reckless rhetoric i would say going on about what's going on within ukraine and ukraine russia relations here we have. the united states talking the defense chief there and thinking to his counterparts in ukraine nato is making statements here of course russia is acting in a provocative way which that's what they always say here i mean are we in the fog
of politics at this point here what's going on and what's the is there any sense to the timing of what's going on here go ahead mark well i think there are so many issues which ukrainians bring still bubbling to the surface the local issues including within we read in groups in your crighton so that the more radical nationalist groups see i mean tension with on the bus as a way of emphasizing will need to abolition was need or with national schools or just trying crackdowns when people are critical of the government policy about 6 some kind of compromise solution. and there are people in the west who. i think mistakenly think that it's important to expose the russian aggressive designs by raising with tension and perhaps or even some cynics who think that if there is a renewed conflict in the dome it will more broadly true for instance cope with north stream gas pipeline through the baltic to germany and russia will things the danger it seems more a situation turns into more. real issue groups as well as regular force somebody
to do something very stupid sets off a spiral out control and. because people are being accustomed that's what's going to happen it also plays into that bank so i think it's very dangerous to be going on and one when one of us is all the people in the west the washington trying to restrain ukrainians are always a sense of what we came to with was a promise period when all this was wrong or quite common to put aggressive forward posturing and the trump war is russia of course was not impact. inclined to actually get involved in cote. cyndi lauper off is not a person prone to hyperbole but he is quoted as saying that if there's a new military conflict in ukraine's east it could destroy the sovereign state of ukraine that's a remarkable statement to be making here it shows that the russians take this extremely seriously go what is your reaction to the foreign minister's words well
the last time we would have heard of this rhetoric from moscow was during that whole car won't come up you know 2 years ago where there was a real danger that ukraine would escalate while the games took weighs just you know hundreds of miles from them order you know in the last off so that president putin in order to prevent any assault of stupid actions from one. greenside said that all of these might be and that and all of your ukraine and then to understand of and of course you didn't mean the brushwood occupied by humint that this would finally split to the ukrainian society because according to object you opinion polls in ukraine not more than 17 or 18 percent of ukrainians and that includes nationalist western regions more than 80 percent of them support military action in indoor must
support an attack and basically the last all honest opinion poll was published in ukraine 55 percent of the people were for negotiations with the authorities in don't ask kind of people's republic so i think the message from our overall was that you know don't do anything stupid them i'd have political consequences for you when you buy you a but you know think about your future think of your country before doing something fatal and basically if we woke up the rhetoric from the ukrainian side you know there is do believe. because by then find a date for the phone talk when the president ski so it creates an impression that the horse was a boat addressed in that tension was abolished somehow condoning for the scenes order against you when he talked to widely to president trump. you know more than
one year ago and we remember you know that was a sickening conversation because zielinski is isn't viceroy of the united states in ukraine and the tragedy of the tragedy over ukrainian u.s. relations is that both zielinski and the former prosecutor general sam call they didn't understand american politics they thought that was really the president they thought that he was rude in the united states which was. a mistake. and there is all it was that basically a start up spewing out compromise on the former american ambassador in kiev america your monish basically it was not a compromise it was all true if you know she wasn't all there in him what to do but she didn't understand you know i know it was and then you go trump but they didn't mean that she won't be our thanks to my trump and giuliani trump and do it isolate
it in the united states so now suddenly it won't sound all that former prosecutor general here crane felt a sudden pressing need to study english and one of them and then he create his job and now he's in london or somewhere else studying english as he learns he made the same mistake you thought that crumples for you the president of the united states you talk to him politely and that cost him dearly so now i think that the period of penitence is over our wireless talking to him again oh no the rays of a good point that's a really good mark i mean. you misunderstood as beamer has said i mean this understanding by now as well because there's a lot of you burning because the landscape was elected is basically being a reaching out being much more open to potential conversations with russia obviously he did well in the elections party did well in the election. and because
it was russian speakers in the east that say we're going to get this guy i mean is he just given up on all of this or the people that he's depended upon they've given a bonus here because it seems new with his years reverence seems remarkably change or is it because they can't get anything done and will be no nonsense theory is the only thing you can do you know i think i think we're trying to do selenski is that he has such a launch majority and he acted decisively in the famous 1st 100 days in might have been able to do some things that would try to shift the everyday. like from ukraine every call me in a better direction the common situation it's not our problem but instead there has been stagnation from trying to hold things that are afraid to say ukraine ever since independence one of the most terrible statistics about ukraine is that life expectancy has been polling since 164. i'm not even a russian i like expectancy of repricing it was a courageous like your sense about but still we have. crime history in a sense in
a. crisis a society into chaos immigration and all of that isn't helped by a string of national issues because it doesn't solve many ways if you want it's great to stay where you crank the best way was to create a branch of the moment situations are most people would say is a good place where as long as you have all these problems by the way much more west you shouldn't forget. the. sputnik moment trying to cram the pulse of ukraine used to be in selectively or so what will. all of those interesting things will stall the entrance of turgeon years that ukraine must irredeemably ukraine and crimea ukraine that's. the many of ukrainian nationalists in the west some stall in the me since the ukraine. great and more recently benson it's become a kind of a passionate identity that. has to be. international fact it's the.
national rivalries and the situation. so we have people saying with some extent in the political situation after an election suddenly things relatively small numbers smashmouth. well on that. very question become key players again because they are on the streets where people have to work when people are also not deplete disillusioned by they'll feel like demonstrate exactly who demonstrate. and so we have a sense included to let. it's their election and now he's back playing with the oligarchs foreign funding the i.m.f. from there and so on and all of that in the end is not actually going to really encourage him done memories ukraine. yeah the sad fact of the matter is is that people don't want to recognize particularly policymakers on the west that there is a. solution without a nation and ukraine that's why it doesn't work ok it's that his rhetoric is very
artificial he may have had his recent waning. government shut down a number of russian language television stations in this ridiculous language law where you know how when you're talking when you start talking with some you have to negotiate which language you're going to be in if you don't you would properly place online which people many people think that some rights violation quite possibly is. how the russians looking at all this. because you know i was going through suggest everyone here to look at moon about bama yes wonderful article about how many times russia has been provocative with its military every year of this time of year they have exercises and of course the western media picks up and talks about it is being aggressive when it is this very routine thing but the russians are not fools in listening to what people are saying in the west and listening to what row ukrainian politicians are talking about and everyone know who is or should know is that up to 14000 people were killed in that don ask your wheel
legal change of power in 2014 so people in don bounce certainly are concerned go ahead oh well just in all that on the stand how russians view of this. i think we need to destroy a few myths which are continuously on the western media you know more of these 46000000 ukrainians when you in your brain know that indistinguishable cross i mean talking to a person from key. if i would have difficulty it tell you east. moscow most of ukrainian speak russian better than gorbachev and with his stomach accent you know sultan russians have acts on the most of the people even in ukraine so they are our people you know that's the perception of russians you know talking about cranio russia crimea i think historians so to morrow will remember their hands over this you know crimea has been up all over russia legally seen 1785 seems the
united states exists crimea was incorporated into russia by catherine the great you know the famous or infamous by john can be spread of media crimea in the d.s.a. you know that's that this is the joke that the west must like to tease russians with well if you don't concede up i jumped into villages or russia and then stop using that stupid joke they were ukraine and it would have the judge agree with me that it was great and after that sort of break we'll continue explaining about ukraine and russia after a break stay with. us
is the home edition and we're discussing ukraine. ok let's go back to him in moscow you were explaining the number of myths that you wanted to dispel for whether or not is go right ahead so i think historians of tomorrow there will be a renewed their hands over this issue or you know how come that suddenly the western media makes such an issue you sure saw them sort of inflamed you know they haven't been inflamed 4000 sometimes hundreds of years and now they're playing by holocaust has been a part of china for 4000 years suddenly you know we can't just allow it to be like the rest of china you know we need to do something great me and has been a part of russia since $70.85 and then you can be just as oh you know we lived with gray mia russian for almost 300 years but we currently with no you know crazy media
is ukrainian where i get to wage of war to prove that it is ukrainian so you know it's like the which of the which did not take place in the middle ages it's suddenly started you know that 60 to 70 in the same tree and this is him explicable to me i mean no when people have so much information when they have access to television computers they don't know the understand certain things you know just like people in the 17th century of who were almost all literate suddenly started believing in witches you know this is in explicable and the same story with basically with this deterioration of the situation in ukraine in the east of ukraine you know when people in the in the united states and europe say or you know who crazy wanted to leave russia and russia doesn't want to do it come on russia lead ukraine become an independent state in 1900 out a single shot you know is a shoe no fair mind in ukraine who is yelland more stuff about the famine in
ukraine the west of ukraine which in $1000.00 surge you during study is going to do as it was part of poland and hungary and did not leave through as you know it is their problem russian separatists in the east. who lives for the family. or their ancestors so all of these myths there are so deeply entrenched in western psych that it's very difficult for us russians do explain you know we know certain things we know. they see them but taken for granted by the west the narrative is completely different from create and the problem is that in order to stay in the drop in the american media you have to feed the ideology you don't have to fit the facts and they continue distorting the facts and sometimes these distortions lead to real wars like the belief that saddam hussein was crazy and was trying to get weapons of mass destruction or that qaddafi was going to rape all of libya or you
know this idea that somehow crimea just come clean you inside russia this is unbearable and it has to be stopped and you meet the great russian who is well here a martyr and you want to bring i think one of the things as well saying it was mentioned. early on a this group of russian kazakhstan as much as in your credit senator but many in congress and on his plane not. communism and not the ideal of the waste all that implemented it let's blame russians and so we have. the whole succumbing to some or all would saying it's not your which was super super mash. well i mean this is a this is about are going to be a suspect where you you term a religious argument you were into an ethnic program enough or some group of people is inherently but i will get to the problem rather than what are some. very important one that's a triumph of western liberalism isn't. because i think it's very important what mark has just said because many russians make most of the same mistake now and they
take that ide you'll enjoy ultra liberal as in which is destroying the west itself no they take it for some kind o. an inmate quantity or anglo-saxon. i think it's a big mistake and people i've quadrille friend pugin are not suffering from it they're who can afford dialogue and they don't understand why the dial cannot be stopped that you know a lot of several interviews last week which were basically just desperate you just reminded people you know before why don in 2014 there were summit meetings between russia and the european union twice a year you know and they were cancelled by the european union so you know there is no add by anglo-saxon same to meant in the russian elite now just historically for for the last 30 years but no i think the main thing for us russians is not to make the mistake which mark has just described as new size that i go undergo that we
have now in ok well it's going to switch gears here a mark i'm one way we can look at the timing of this is. this war of words is a ratcheting up of rhetoric but it is the new administration in the united states and it's populated with very powerful people that were in the obama administration i'm thinking of. the secretaries they blink in of. victoria nuland is bad people are not. jay celebrant all of these people were there 1st of all they're all russert russia gaiters ok and one could say you know if you look at lincoln's senate confirmation hearings i mean in the you he presented a unfinished business approach to syria and ukraine here is this a coincidence go ahead no i think i think that's right we don't want broccoli unfortunately it's back to the future isn't it the west saying the same goal.
supporting her on an insurrection against america which would lead great critics were government would make ukraine better that's what they thought would have are the terms or action in syria would do. did something special. and i fear we will now see this also in other places and the problem for me is from west mills is quite often it's true that a regime but the idea that our interventions that make battle shorey are lessons which we should be very cautious we should be like doctors and not trust will do no harm unless i'm willing to acknowledge our mistakes and we saw this when from and some of them met the chinese foreign minister. but that completes insensitivity to the fact that there are some criticisms of the west that have you heard that made by people who are not by any means model democratic. i mean this refusal to let somebody who you disagree with might know less have a point. is well let me. but wasn't that the precedent during the cold war i mean
obviously it was a very intense ideological conflict i mean it couldn't have been clear but there was mutual respect i mean there was even the great stephen cohen who recently passed away and said you know and we you know we try to put ourselves in their shoes to see how they saw the world that's not happening right now and i think it's interesting thing for me he switches over to diem or is that you know the cold war was an ideological conflict but there's another conflict now but only one side is ideological ema well i would say the united states no and unfortunately the european union do they they remind me and although they're. you know soviet union or the 7th us and atheists on the later soviet union which was not comfortable which was somehow more or less humane you know the united states and the you know remind me of all that earlier soviet union which do you believe in it's a goal which and which was dangerous for the hall because of these belief you know
and these ability to condole on radio national you if it serves my ideological interest that was very common for that and that is very common for the united states and for the you know i mean please note. you know if you look at the statements from the ukrainian nationalists if you look at their actions you know the west should be against them because they're real racists you know believe in their bad cross laws while russians are a mixture of tavares and feel you tribes you know the same with croatian fascists you know when they fought against the serbs but it's interesting that i do always sometimes allies itself do that was a warst nationalist still who was ridiculous if it fights what it considers to be a big dangerous country because what is a big country like china or russia where you with when you or with. minority just incident or you have just contented neighbors or have on several squaws with these
big country so it's amazing how ultra liberalism was in the united states and in the european union. how they condone any kind of radicalism any kind of race in stock and all of it comes from elyse in fight in the big countries you know they're . muslim fundamentalists some of whom ford in syria you know the gradation fascists you know the ukrainian nationalists they all get basically a blank check from the united states you know the current actions so who are extremist nationalists in kiev just look at the pictures and what they did do is enhanced his office you know in your mind doing a continuation on war in ukraine well they were basically given a blank check or their prosecutor former prosecutor general said to whom i mentioned he said 3 years ago left me cold any at that against a ukrainian nationalist activist will be considered an attack against the ukrainian
state itself and so that was the police your brain you can root out you can call for hooch an hour a new russian influence that's a lot but don't you dare to touch the so-called activists and the western media call them activists nope not see what is activists. insulation is art and sit ins are insofar as they recognize the simple report these things happen i think the real progress are all. action in ignorance some refusal to come up it's so princeton's and lack any progress demonstrations on the huge monumental truce with these people are never reported so in some places it's a problem consider what are the west. look elected because they don't conform to the weather brussels but if the weather from bulgaria to let you raise your hand the brooch was a mere open. there are days almost whatever the commission wants when you do what
you are. letting this is a great problem it's for the public for the public so the rest of america since the reporting of the steps they would know the story. and if you mention them across the org which is also it's russian propaganda we're not saying. whether stardust media i mean i guess if it was just propaganda goebbels like propaganda it would have no weight but i was there and i just recently read in and you spent by i don't know if it's true or not i think it was in the new york times or in the frantic council of radio free europe resumed its broadcast on hungary you know on. their orbits authority carrion got my soul back to han interviews a member of the e.u. hungary's amount olmedo but only ideologically your against the mainstream radio free europe will be to you in the community so it's really quite interesting is that i really like the ms analogy of the early soviet union which is that was. it
was all about a purity test and this is going it's gone down due everything as a purity test and if you more alliance you're or i'm saul was see meaning in your interlocutor doesn't agree with you about that by definition there immoral i mean this is what we have got down to used to be about geopolitics now it's about ideology gentlemen that's all that that we want to thank my guests here in moscow and i think our viewers know watching this year r.t. see you next term remember.
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