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tv   Cross Talk  RT  January 18, 2021 12:30pm-1:01pm EST

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what are common to disperse the demonstration under restaurant a 100 people in december the government shut down schools and most shops in response to a spike in cases last week the law was extended by a further 3 weeks. finally being ripped by nationwide riots over the country's deepening economic crisis more than 600 people arrested on sunday night according to the interior ministry soldiers have been deployed in several cities to contain the arrests. across all of the day's big developments our websites is as always just a click away in 30 with all of monday's latest news on views to our internal.
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hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered on peter lavelle it seems inevitable there will be new security regulations passed into law in the wake of the events on capitol hill the original patriot act was made law to legitimize the so-called war on terror will the patriot act 2.0 focus on domestic care and how will the u.s. and gauge the e.u. once joe's an office. to discuss these issues and more i'm joined by my guest george samueli in budapest he is an author and a you tuber at the gaggle and we have plenty isn't in oslo he is an associate professor at the university of south eastern norway as well as author of the new book russian conservatism originally crosstown prose in fact that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to church in budapest 1st like i said in my introduction george i think we have a kind of
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a parallel structure here and we have the so-called war on terror after 911 which was an utter failure ok we can talk about that on the sidelines here but it seems to me that the this is a template they've you know the war on terror is now the war on domestic terrorism but the difference is that the war on terror was. there was assessment of the risks ok. and i said as i said there was another failure they these assessments during correct but it seems to me if you're going to have a war on domestic share then you're bringing in and i. illogical element because what is terrorism what is domestic and who decides that go ahead yes that's a very good question. and this patriot act $2.00 that seems to be in the woods is really not so much a response to what happened on january the 6th but
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a response to the election i mean it's an election that will be disputed in the coming year as much as the 2016 election was disputed pretty much throughout the trunk is so i think this is a preemptive attack all the dispute that is going to take place during the next 4 years i think i think the the biden people have real questions of legitimacy hanging over them i think we have a presidency that no one really wanted a year ago that nobody in his right mind would have believed that by this really we cracked it sort of fake at all popular with his own with his own party will become the president of the united states so i think it's a response to that. but i think that it's really going to be a very dangerous situation because this is as the
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original patriot act was was an attack on the muslims on a bet various to send this out who are deemed to be sympathetic to muslims figures on the left this is going to be a little all embracing attack on i think what will be seen as the opposition to the incoming democratic administration and i think all of the abuses that we saw during the patriot act originally will be here and then some which means mass of valence. these constant attempts by the f.b.i. to uncover the terrorist plots but which in fact will be plots that will be actually instigated by the entity and they're very quite a dangerous attack on civil liberties in america the irony that george is that you know and at least as we're speaking right now there appears to have been a number
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a lapse is a judgment an assessment by the f.b.i. and the intelligence state so what are we going to do we're going to reward them with more power and more money and more. leeway to be able to now a spy in surveil american citizens glenn let me go to you because it seems to me that you know this is a this much more of a political dynamic all of this year because all of us have seen some of the footage of the events that happened on the count but all discussed it is all obviously here and but within a few hours of the narrative what it instead of a riot it was an insurrection and it was driven by white supremacist which fits very much into the ideology that the democratic party and its allies push during the elections so this is just an extension of it go ahead. just to be clear
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the capitol hill. could use and could have been avoided by simply having additional security at that specific location to target those specific people who are breaking the law so this need for expanding the security state where is the picture sort of the picture docs 2.0 is not nearly really necessary and imo i agree that this a hostile political significance or because to us a polarizing to great extent and what you would hope to see at this point would be to find some unity instead you see now one side gaining power to targets down our side now seems dramatic. as you pointed to this as well as the terms to be used after the capitol hill this is hyperbolic terms coup attempt so the white supremacy domestic terrorism these are words that actually have meaning you know it could have to go point was there any chance of the government being told and having
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a regime change with the military operations supporting it it was a few 100 to nothing he says who already in 5 who are fighting only darkie enjoys was not i don't knows i'm not sure on just how to do with race at all to be honest and also the domestic terrorism of this was not aimed against the civilian population or spread fear along population in order to promote political goals it was just these terms are not accurate to do not they're not suitable for this. time so why don't you. why does not care about the other using it now is to paint a very broad brush across all conservatives we see in this through the media and also to politicians speaking so effectively the argument is that. all americans who enabled the capitol hill an abstract be held accountable that is and when they will trump so all some to 5000000 voters the conservative party and this is. problem because when you consider your public political opposition as enemies democracy
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merely because you know 51 percent dominating 400 percent and that's a problem just a fish are. actually you give them a special tool through a course terminal or a course of authority or those other 49 percent and they get to conserve this art house in a few no racist ku apologist domestic terrorist. this really has taken on a very dark turn especially considering the price of detector all of our see how much power they have this will be something the really the cross and republicans are calling interesting countering instead you see the democrats not sitting down also leading a very powerful tool in your fighting what to nora from the mystic terrorism wish again the problem of terrorism a very loosely defined concept and decides in the trough you see it being much more loosely defined you know george the that the left just can't let go and that they
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just they're obsessed with him here so you know he's on his way in the matter in a matter of minutes and their focus will remain on him because not only do they want to make his personality and personal life oxic and they've gone a long way towards that they want to make anyone that was are in his orbit and eventually anyone supporting him so it's still all about trump they can't let him go and i i have a beary about is that what as they go into power there progressive's and the old elites in the democratic party they have a lot of differences among them it's be very difficult it's a very wily coalition because the only thing that kept it together was drum so trump is going to keep them together while they're in how. well i think that the so they part of it but i think they make a pot of it is that 2 there are real questions about 1 the legitimacy of this gov granted these people who are now in power really have no. mandate i mean biden ran
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a vacuous election promising nothing other than mandating mosques for everyone so there is a real fear that trump will come back and that the that trump who is able to do something that no democrat is able to do he's able to generate enormous enthusiasm i mean when they see these crowds 506070000 who show up for trump rallies when you know the hof a 1000000 people so game arrived in washington on january the 6th they are afraid of that because they know they themselves supposedly there on the left you know there are people helping the working man they're not able to generate that kind of enthusiasm so that's why they need to cross that off position to them which i mean it's that it exists and it's going to come back in 2024 so what they're hoping for is to demoralise demonize that opposition so that they they will remain in power
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that's why it's important for them to cross trump himself because although there may be younger people like some of the younger set of this like josh foley we may want to tap into that trunk be a movement they have a feeling that he trump himself who is only able to generate that enthusiasm without trump the movement will dissolve and i think that's why it's so important for them to cross it and whether through they said trial in the senate then subsequent legal challenges and accept that basically trump himself would just be so toxic that the movement itself will dissolve it plain and basically agreeing with george cherish the grievances of these people will not change i mean maybe you know trying to what degree or another he'll be in the picture we don't know yet here but it's seems to me again going back on how they're going to frame and implement this war on. state terrorism is it it seems to me if i can state with my
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my honey a logical point here is this is a frontal attack on any kind of populist movement this is they do not want this set have a populist movement it has traction they could have a leader like it had in donald trump and maybe as george has pointed out another person you know that this is a way to nip it in the bud now because they have and nothing is being resolved the grievances of these 70 plus 1000000 people are still there nothing's changed go ahead. i think it's thing that's the wrong conclusion on the trunk for monday felt here mirchi was able to social learned the people always he is propaganda and when they get for him the movement will die while they don't forget his book trump is largely a symptom you have reasonable grievances social economic grievances of. middle america where you have a lot of problem has been building up for a long time being nothing addressed now the. problem of focusing so much has been
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that there never really took this and realize that so how can we address their grievances in a better more healthy way instead they say no these people are deplorable they're racist they're back or stay with no also terrorists apparently where we need to do something about them so by remote you know this impeachment trial i fear is for making a martyr out of him and. and will was going to learn you know this will further radicalize many and also by painting just the one who might have ordered him to be a radical. it could it would only contribute to extending the movement but again if you look at the. economic nationalist ideas addressing this craven says there are something in his political platforms that hoss real appeal and it's worth to address yes he's follow mouth probably not the prettiest personnel to you come across but if you don't really address. also support for just all of his supporters
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terrorist you don't have a problem and here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with archie. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to a guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok let's go back to georgia in budapest ireland switch gears here we know that
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a joe biden is. very fond of europe he likes the old ways the the cold war in the in the immediate period after the end of the cold war and all through the obama administration here so george the way i look at it the way that you know he's got to be team from the obama administration and the a team and obama administration was pretty dismal but now they've got to be team and victoria nuland back is back apparently into here so joe biden in the least the few words that he has uttered and i don't speak too many more words for the next 4 years wants to reset meaning go back to 2016 when it with his relations with the u.s. his relationship with europe is that even possible right now and what kind of relation could it be. well you are absolutely right 2 it is exactly. restoration the hope of
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a restoration of the status quo and tape. where they can come back because it is a really difficult question because it will depend on what this biden team will want to do and how the europeans will react to it because if the biden team will want to remind you the fights in the middle east if it wants to. continue with its policies in the ukraine the ones that which were. conducted by the obama people which was antagonizing russia and again through nato expansion and i can i think russia that i think the europeans may well look back on the trunk years as being not raise such bad for all i mean the game drunk was a very rude disruptive sort of person on the other hand they weren't all that bad and he didn't make that any demands on the european into i mean
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a bubble he wasn't asking them to getting involved in you was and that's what's the problem folks europe that the united states is going to solve all sorts of new was and then the euro as the rainy pick up the pieces as a consequence whether through refugee flows but the through terrorism is also that didn't happen on the trunk that you think they should they should certainly worry about you know whether this is going to happen now with the bike and you know glenn one of the interesting things about been during the drive been ministration within europe is that you had books grown in marigolds actually talking about the what is the nature of the e.u. sovereignty what kind of foreign policy it should have what kind of military posture it should now because that was the during a time of turbulence with the united states which obviously beast. those questions and to be addressed as you have distributed malaysian across the atlantic now with joe biden coming back in is that conversation going to stop in europe and the
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europeans it is going to get back in the lap of the americans because the things have changed what will you that were at the end of last year which got very little news coverage is that the european union zite a huge investment deal with china and china is going to play probably the most important role on the global stage for the next house century year and the europeans in least made an initial choice in december and many will say that was the gist but you do just use the united states because of the europeans how could one way or another have some kind of sovereign foreign policy or they're going to be irrelevant go ahead and i'm glad you mentioned that investment because i think thoughts are as a steady relationship perfectly because much of the cobbling together before trump with obama had only intensified on the topic also a lot think relationships were in america simply because of bias maher on his picks a bit softer less are going to. reach more it leaves early because some of those
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some of the cobbler will continue as before because the us will demand more in return for security guarantees and the e.u. will see a pretty strong you from the us and that is many reasons for this but i know a big one now is distrust of china demonstrates that the e.u. and u.s. interests are they coming to a greater extent because the u.s. now has to prioritize asia europe this is where its main strategic rival is located then they use will then have to demand more solidarity from their ends which i think the answer should fall in line understeer told what if the europeans now they want more strategic autonomy in a world where the u.s. power is unreal to think they need to be an independent color power and then that requires them to jaish china separately. and to exemplify this coming relations of the year u.s. and e.u. i think that this investment deal is perfect example. because this is a sure it's investment to really here shine there was 5 not just before mine takes office and americans were perplexed. to us bill sloan why not wait until i was here
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but if the what are we for by then by who would have had to tear our young chorused europeans not just fired off and it would have about started a relationship to saddam do you buy this percentage was the new reality of the year taking into and into china so i can either accept it or h.n. continue the sanctions i am again i don't want the same logic goes for the north stream too it also finished before mine takes office. because now all they can effectively say this all is until european financial spot americans we can say it was just a future shock and we can continue the way it was before so this is a fact you are just signaling to the american system of what we want to have and all 6 horse. choice china also a lesser extent draw shot them up we want to have good relations with you as well just the reason why this was done before i could change them and you could argue benefits both sides you know george one could make could make the argument because
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of the cool relationship. that drum towards europe because trump saw them as competitors and they are economically their competitors ok let's face it ok and the europeans through in the postwar era i got really cozy trade deals with the united states for being our own the washington consensus well the european union's economy is bigger than the united states ok it has a very well well educated workforce and when they follow the dictates of american foreign policy well they have a. migration crisis of an unbelievably go back to 2015 here and as you just pointed out you know they're not interested in these middle east wars anymore they're bad the american people aren't great but they're by mr h. will probably act differently as usual here but so easy this turbulent relationship actually was helping the europeans i would say because it showed that they have options. i think so too and i think it's it was always high time
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for a reassessment both in the in the united states and in the european union all this transatlantic relationship it was on to fish will create during the cold war years but at least you could always keep it together as a 00 the terrible threat of the soviet union but you know once they will soak back dissolved it became less and less justifiable that these 2 entities europe and the united states should be held together by this entirely artificial alliance. and really it was constant need to justify its existence and that's why it became a source of instability because you know. they too had to continue to justify its existence by manufacturing crises in order to keep itself going so whether it was in georgia crane or in in the middle east it was always oh and this is
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this is why we need some artificial relationship but of course. somebody like trump was always bound to come along and say well actually you know we americans what are we getting out of all of this we subsidize your military. and we run a massive trade deficit which means that jobs are being exported from the united states and so what exactly i mean way way is the threat what's what why are we doing this and i think that you know there are there is unfortunately a very powerful transatlantic establishment that exists it off think then and then brussels and they naturally fall back again strong position and that probably happy now that he's gone and that we can go back to the to the old days in america subsidizes military. and we just get get get to do. well we want to have you know conferences every 5 years in which we congratulate one another yeah i mean
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the generous word is gravy train but the reality is grits is when it is ok glenn i mean we've mentioned china here and and after 4 years but have across the relationship and at the end of last year we have these big investment you know i mean these are the europeans kind of drawing a line in the sand and saying we know we can't go our own way i mean what what can you give us what do we get out of this deal here because if you look at public opinion polls year at in and year out in germany for example the majority of majority of germans would like american treat the troops the leave 75 years out in the 2nd and in the 2nd world war i mean what kind of standing does europe china right now considering what kind of people go by and will have around him and considering the relationship they have with. well uh that's one of those interesting european terminal and for us again keep in mind that when that process was undergoing to over throw you on a course in ukraine nuland you know that the phone call she was explaining what the
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regime for trying to put in place to replace it one step down general and her message in terms alternate use role be in terms of this putting together an accord government ospel s.b.u. . her perspectives some buses that are also arrested are nicely and well i guess for from my perspective the main the main problem is after the cold war the west transition because it was no longer necessary to defend against the soviet union but rather became a grouping for collective head money that is the u.s. needed the europeans to have cement unocal or moment all the europeans were also advancing this also within the transatlantic format seeking strategic autonomy that is it equality with the united states and this is this is largely what culture interest to gether i think now that the unocal are coming to an end and you have the mergers on your powers for the us to simply blindly follow the us is always
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problematic us as a conductor our competitors are they also have this common interest they will remain competitors in many fields all they have to colonies becoming a some less and so you have this structural incentives for them to to koplovitz of course also the popular sentiment soon wipe out the used force united states and it is a paradox that the americans are most important security allies still every year they do polls to find out almost all america's allies see the u.s. as the greatest threat to international stability so this contradiction is has to be addressed some points you know general than if you know what you hear but i guess you know this new relationship needs the united states will continue this be no different from is going to decide and be like poland in hungary because of their experiments. as the americans will continue to meddle in european. politics but you won't get anyone that interferes in america. like a british citizen in 2016. yes no there's no question that
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that will be. part of the american general take a leader hungary with the blink who has a family connection with hungary with his father was a former ambassador. run out of time you know i want to thank my guests in oslo and in budapest i want to thank our viewers for watching us your r.v. see you next time remember. the day or thinks. we are here to ask.
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so we were. going to. give you more. now. on those who just came up with a ticket in your show that. antarctica is a very international community. media used to really need to. do this because this. is. but the. script. is everything.
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to do with. the. time they have to go out he decided not to take this life. with him i gave you the. vaccine program with the goal of immunizing more than half the country's population by the end of the year. in argentina for the russian jobs soaring up and. so ahead of them this hour following a wave of allergic reactions california all nations from aids. drugs which comprise around a 10th of the u.s. needs. an american president elect.


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