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tv   MSNBC Prime  MSNBC  June 8, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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good evening, welcome back to the special edition of all in, i'm chris hayes. tomorrow marks the first primetime hearing from the bipartisan committee investigating january 6th. over the past 11 months, republican congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming, the vice chair of the committee, has emerged as the public face of the investigation. >> if those responsible are not held accountable, and if congress does not act responsibly, this will remain a cancer on our constitutional republic. undermining the peaceful transfer of power at the heart of our democratic system. we will face the threat of more
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violence in the months to come and another january 6th every four years. >> cheney is a very odd figurehead for the movement to prosecute the ex presidents attempted coup in the court of public opinion. she provides an interesting case study for the question, what does a politician do when they want to be part of a political party that doesn't want them? i've covered cheney's political career for almost a decade now. to be honest, i spent much of it viewing her as kind of an object of scorn. i mean, she is a hard right republican and one of the most extreme foreign policy hawks in the party. before entering politics, the first time she came on my radar screen, he's probably best known for her policy to keep america safe. that levied some pretty disgusting attacks against obama era department of justice officials who had, in private practice before they join the government, defended guantánamo bay detainees. haiti formally launched her political career by trying to carpet back a wyoming senate seat, despite being born in
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wisconsin and despite having much of her idol life being spent in virginia. as the intercept reports, cheney launched a campaign to represent wyoming with a facebook post geo tagged, mclain, virginia, her real home. she was challenging incumbent wyoming senator mike enzi, a staunch conservative from the right. but he was she was never able to shake the carpetbagger label. -- other than i am a cheney and i want to be your senator. in fact, the most memorable moment of that race with cheney throwing her own sister under the bus, by coming at gout out against marriage equality, despite the fact that her sister was in a same-sex marriage. cheney ended up dropping out of that race before the primary. but two years later, in 2016, she ran four and one wyoming's only house seat. that is the one her father, former vice president dick cheney, held for a decade back in the 1980s. she quickly rose in the party ranks, becoming the third ranking republican in the house. a position also previously held by her father.
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and for the duration of the trump administration, cheney was a bog standard right-wing republican, if not more conservative than most of her peers. she would occasionally criticize trump in public but usually attacking his foreign policy, again, from the right. cheney voted with trump's agenda nearly 93% of the time. that's more than, for instance, republican senate leader mitch mcconnell of kentucky, staunch trump ally matt gaetz of florida. and then, on january 6th -- cheney, like most of her party, and the country, as a whole, was obviously and sincerely and genuinely outraged. at one level she appears to clearly be in a political calculation that not only was trump's political conduct morally indefensible, it was bad politics as well. you can hear her on a leaked phone call with house minority leader kevin mccarthy on january 10th, asking if trump will resign. >> and you asked -- you know, what happens if it
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gets there after it's gone? is there any chance? are you hearing that he might resign? is there any reason to think that might happen? >> i've had a few discussions. my gut tells me no. i'm seriously thinking of having a conversation with him tonight. i haven't talked to him in a couple days. >> if you are hearing that conversation that cheney and mccarthy are sort of on the same page. right? it didn't last. because at a certain point, other republicans, mccarthy among them, who had some first order abject horror at what happened and then had secondary political concerns, we realized the way the politics were blowing and just retreated. they either shot up about the insurrection or, in some cases, did a complete one 80. just three days after that phone call, 197 republicans, including leader kevin mccarthy, who you just heard saying he consider telling trump to resign, voted against impeachment. cheney had the courage of her
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convictions. and she and nine other house republicans voted yes. and that was the beginning of the end of her political career at least in its previous form. a few weeks later, mccarthy flew down to mar-a-lago. and post for this picture. the party was firmly back down to the ex presidents control. except least she, the third most powerful person in the house republican caucus, refused to go back to the way things were. she said, rightly, january 6th changed everything, correctly noting that trump was a unique threat to our democracy. but for the time, she remained house leadership, even though kevin mccarthy tried to oust her. the first time, in february of 2021, he's the secret ballot vote, and the republican conference overwhelmingly voted for her to stay, which led to some awkward moments like this one. >> do you believe president trump should be speaking -- or former president trump should be speaking at cpac this weekend? >> yes, he should. >> congresswoman cheney? >> that's up to cpac. i've been clear, views about
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president trump, and the extent to which, following january six, i don't believe that he should be playing a role in the future of the party of the country. >> on that high note, thank you all very much. >> i find that clip fascinating. because cheney is trying to walk the tightrope there. she doesn't want to make a big deal out of this. but she is also going to say her piece. the obvious and evident truth. and over the coming months, the party began to sour on cheney, as trump tightened his grip on the republican conference. in may of 2021, they voted again to strip cheney of her leadership role. this time, mccarthy did not use a secret ballot, which meant trump could know who voted which way. and this time, she lost. she was replaced by republican congresswoman elise stefanik of new york, who had a far less conservative voting record but who was willing to be vocally supportive of donald trump, more important than the big lie and a stolen election, and a
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bunch of other far-right conspiracy theories. house speaker nancy pelosi then appointed cheney to the committee investigating the insurrection, where she was then elevated to vice chair. that was the final straw for her fellow republicans. cheney was ousted from the wyoming republican party. and along with republican adam kinzinger of illinois, the only other republican who sits on the committee, she was formally censured by the rnc for, quote, participating in a democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens engaged in legitimate political discourse. i will refrain from playing the b will role of what legitimate political discourse looks like. kinzinger has announced he's not running for reelection. -- who of course as a personal vendetta against every republican who supported his impeachment. and in fact, predictably, trump went down to wyoming last month to campaign against cheney. >> liz cheney hates the voters of the republican party. and she has for longer than you would know.
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wyoming deserves a congresswoman who stands up for you and your values, not one who spends all of her time putting you down, going after your president in the most vicious way possible. and loving endless, nonsensical bloody, horrible wars. >> going after your president in the most vicious way possible. the nerve. wyoming primary is not until august but a recent poll has cheney down 30 points with voters. in a way, trump and mccarthy say, cheney is not a real republican. the bipartisan committee is not really bipartisan. they are right. because the republican parties determined that forthright support of american democracy against its enemies, foreign and domestic, is not allowed in its ranks. so, liz cheney is hardly a liberal. she is a hard-core conservative with policy positions i find repugnant in some cases. but on this one defining issue
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of our age, the future and the enduring value of american democracy, liz cheney is on the right side of history. claire mccaskill served two terms in the u.s. senate as a democratic representative from missouri. she joins me now. i don't think there's a political trajectory quite like this in recent times. i can't think of one. arland specter a little bit, which was going on while you are serving. he voted for the aca. they kept him out as a traitor. this is just on another level. >> and let's separate out everything else that liz cheney is and isolate this decision. and really understand the decision she made. it's the ultimate act of political courage is making a decision that you know is more likely than not to result in your defeat. and the reason i am confident she made that decision with that kind of context is the state she is from. i mean, chris, it's a 70 to 30
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state. >> yes. >> it's not like it's a place where she could get democratic crossover votes and somehow survive. mathematically, it would be -- i mean, in the last midterm election in wyoming, let's put this in context, 85% of the people who voted in the primary election voted in a republican primary. so, in order for her to win, she would have to come so close that just a few thousand crossover voters of the democratic party could save her. and that is probably unlikely that she is going to come that close. so she knew and she decided on a position of principle that she was going to stand for the constitution and for the democracy she loves, that she was willing to lose. and frankly, if more people did that in washington right now, we would have a whole lot of policy objectives that would be getting done. and be checked off of the list. >> right. >> because this is really political courage in its essence. >> yeah, and it's an important
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point also, when you look at the timeline there. it becomes pretty evident pretty early on. that there is going to be no future for people that say, donald trump has no future in the republican party. it's him or me, basically. it's democracy or him. and she sticks to it and she sticks to it. she has stuck to it with ruthless tenacity. this is now clearly a mission of hers. and i think [inaudible] a real principle. it's also the case that, it's just a few more republican senators had voted to convict, he would have been barred from public office. and honestly, i think all our lives would be better. at the most selfish political level, all of their lives would be better. >> i think her courage i like the cowardice of so many senators. because they had an opportunity to keep him from ever holding office again and trust me when i tell you, the vast majority of the republicans in the united states do not want him to hold office. >> correct.
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they >> can't stand it, especially mitch mcconnell. and mitch mcconnell is running around the country, trying to keep the wackadoo tool's that trump is supporting from getting nominated, because he knows that makes it less likely for him to take over again as a majority party. but really what happened in the senate, with the exception of susan collins on the edges, and meet robin the, pretty bold faced, most of them hit under their desks. and said let it pass. they don't want to say anything. they aren't saying positive things about donald trump. but they are being very careful, not to say anything negative. >> and on the other hand, when you talked about highlighting cowardice, there's a least pharaonic, who is the opposite. this is a person who is in a somewhat sweeney district, who which kind of establishment republican. she was in from the maga wing. she just transparently saw what her future was, which was abject civility to donald trump, in the wake of the first frontal attempt on american democracy.
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and the peaceful transfer of power. she was like, cynthia. >> look at the two women here. one is showing an amazing act of political courage, that is probably going to cost her her career as an elected official. the other one, who is exhibiting extreme political hatchery -- i mean, she is being what she needs to be at the moment. and it's pretty clear based on her record that she doesn't believe in all the stuff. she is mulling herself to be what she needs to be to suit the political winds of the moment, the opposite of political courage. so, if you are -- if i were a political science professor assigning a paper to be written, i would be comparing and contrasting liz cheney versus elise stefanik on the issue of political courage. i'm >> fascinated by this question of belief. because i think you have served as an elected official and i have not. but my understanding is, you have got these things when you are an elected official. there is what i clear mccaskill
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believe in. but also i am a representative of these folks. and it cannot just be that, like, i don't care at all what they say. it also can't be the case that, like, i'm just going to do whatever i want. there is some tension. that tension is always going to be there. but i do wonder, when we talk about this belief, i always suspect that saying lies out loud, you come to believe them. or making arguments that are disingenuous, you begin to convince yourself. i wonder how much basically the republican caucus has, like, self radicalized by lying through their teeth all the time. >> i don't think it's radicalized. it's rationalized. i think they're trying to rationalize -- >> you think there's this distance. >> i think internally they know that this is really not good. and you are right about that tension. but the difference between what liz cheney has done and elise stefanik is, there are moments -- and there were moments for me, i mean the kavanaugh vote -- i was pretty sure that the kavanaugh vote meant i was not going to be going back to washington. >> right.
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but >> i could not bring myself to vote for kavanaugh, the same thing on immigration, the dreamer act. i knew that by staying, it was not where i was, what my principled belief was. and it's those moments -- and i think in a lot of those instances, if officeholders are really honest about why they are voting the way they are and if they are principled about it, they can't forgive it a lot. i can forgive it a lot, in missouri, four votes i took that will probably more progressive than my state. >> right. >> you can do that. what you can't do is what liz cheney has done. or maybe, in my instance, with kavanaugh, with the way it was right before the election and the way it was highlighted, is that you sometimes a, principled position will cost you your job. and you've got to be willing to do that. and liz cheney has showed her willingness to do that. >> because otherwise, what is it for? >> what is it for? what's the point of holding this job if you can't move the needle. ultimately, it's believing in our democracy, that's a pretty big thing to believe in. >> i've said this before. i'm no longer practicing
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catholic. i was raised in the catholic church. but it's like, i still have some sense that even when i think about the decisions in this program, that we broadcast, that you are going to have to -- saint peter at some point. you have to do stand and defend what you've done. and >> i will tell is cheney right now, you know well is, if you don't get elected this year, you want me to tell you something? it's great out here. i am way happier -- i feel guilty i am so happy out of the fray. >> well, claire mccaskill, great to have you here. >> thank you. >> the january six committee subpoenaed five house republicans as part of its investigations. that includes alabama congressman brooks who famously mo fired up the crowd on the morning of january 6th. brooks is refusing to appear before the committee but he will appear with me on the show next. next stories of bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it.
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to have tremendous success in getting people to cooperate with their investigation, including people like donald trump's son in jared kushner. his daughter ivanka who testified for eight hours. his own personal lawyer, rudy giuliani who testified for nine hours. the committee has conducted over thousand depositions and interviews. although there has been this tiny little portion of people who refused to cooperate. and even smaller group that has refused subpoenas. two of them, trump advisor steve bannon and peter navarro have been indicted. two others including trump's chief of staff mark meadows have not. there is a group of republican congressman who have been subpoenaed and refused to cooperate, but no public action has been taken at this point. we don't know their fate yet. among them is republican congressman of alabama. he spoke to the crowd on the morning of january 6th wearing body armor. >> today is the day american
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patriots start taking down names and kicking ass. our ancestors sacrificed their blood, their sweat, their tears, their fortunes, and sometimes their lives to give us their descendants. the greatest nation in world history. i have a question for you. are you willing to do the same? >> brooks was then and continues to be one of don trump's most vocal, stalwart supporters. he earned trump's endorsement, but his polling numbers started to plummet and trump dumped him. brooks is now trying too hard to get that endorsement back, promoting the twitter hashtag re-endorse moe. moe brooks of alabama joins me now. good to see you congressman. how do you understand. >> it's always enjoyable to
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listen to the interaction. >> i'm glad that you enjoyed it, a lot of it were your words. how do you understand this trajectory that you've been on? obviously, you are an enormously stalwart supporter of donald trump. you were there trying to achieve his aims before january 6th and on that day. he endorsed you and then he put out the statement where he said you went broke, you've gone woke, and he made a horrible mistake, he just said he rescinded his endorsement of you. how did that feel? >> well, i was wondering if i could get a job with msnbc. oh no, i'm woke, right? >> i don't know if that is gonna work. you seem a little caught betwixt and in between. i don't think there's much work for you here. what do you think you could do to get back in his good graces? >> well, when i try to do is i
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focus on public policy issues, that's what motivates me. that's why i encourage people to vote a certain way, one way the other. quite frankly, we have different mindset, different views. if you're a liberal you don't want to vote for mail brooks. all of the liberals in the state of alabama get that. i'm sure i won't get very many liberal votes when it comes to the general election. what i want in the republican primary is for people to understand that there is only one conservative in this race and that conservative is congressman moe brooks. arguably, there's only one republican in this race and that republican is congressman moe brooks. that's one trying to communicate to the citizens of the state of alabama. >> i'm gonna throw the script here and ask you this. why are you on my show? you have a republican firing -- we don't have a lot of republican primaries on the show. if we do, i love you, i'm glad you're watching. what are you trying to do here? what do you need to happen moe brooks? >> look, i don't avoid any
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particular shows that alive. sometimes a little hesitant about these ones. what i was trying to do is tell people to understand that america is the greatest nation, we have foundational principles that have enabled us to excel. as we has individual excel, our country excels. that's why we have been in the greatest nation for about 75 years from an economic standpoint, from a liberty standpoint, from an ability to control our own destiny. for all military prowess, national security, you name it. there are certain things that have made us who we are. we are not by accident. i want to do the best i can to defend and promote those values to the extent that i can persuade people that we are the greatest nation in the world history and this is why. >> so, i want to ask you about your participation in that period after the election. you were there that day. you talk to the crowd, we played that.
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when you saw the footage, right. i'm sure you've seen of the police officer having the door squeezed on him and the flag pole being them. then getting pulled into the crowd. getting walked, or you might even say their asses getting kicked. was there some part of you that felt some twinge of, oh no. did i have anything to do that. i told people to go case. >> let me talk about this in three different senses. first, a barack obama judge in response to the -- all the evidence, and the law, they have dennis dismissed it. >> wait, i just wanna be clear. >> -- >> i'm not accusing you of anything. >> the judges have looked at it, a barack obama federal judge. >> i really want an answer to this. i really do. i'm not accusing you of anything legally. i'm seeing personally, a human,
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moral level. you are human being, i'm a human being, you have a platform, i have a platform. when you saw those images you don't think to yourself, when i told people to go kick ass, i talked about the blood of our forefathers, that had something to do with people taking up and beating up cops? >> chris, let me speak, okay? you guys in the news media, there's two sentences and one paragraph. look at the preceding sentence that tells you i'm talking about beating republicans in the 2024 election. that's whose names were going to take down, and whose derrières we are going to kick. anyone who's there who looks at the two sentences in a two sentence paragraph notes on talking about. it has nothing to do with what had occurred at the capitol. i'm talking about beating the rhinos. we are fighting with the establishment, the rhinos. that's what i was talking about. >> when mark meadows texted you that morning. i find this another human text.
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at eight await he texted you, you are speaking this am. are you aware, you rollback. had you sort of established with him that you are speaking. uyghurs he worried that you don't know, that maybe you were sleeping in, what was that about? >> i was asked last second to speak at this event. i don't remember the days, the week, but i was asked on one day and a speech was supposed to be the next morning. i'm going, i'm working on all of this election fraud that was going on in the 2020 election. all the speeches, all the different states that might be contested. given issues with respect to each of those states. i get a call from the white house asking if i would be willing to give an address, a speech at the ellipse. the very next day when i'm doing all this work. i'm telling my staff at some point, this has to be some statistic. initially, my understanding was that i was going to be there for about 30 minutes.
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i put together about a 15-minute speech. i found out sometime that morning that no, it has been cut. that puts a pretty big burden on a speaker who has to make a 15-minute speech and reduced to ten. at one point i was saying, they're offering me three, four, five minutes when i 15-minute speech. eventually we compromise on about ten. you have to restructure a lot of the things on the fly. that's what that was all about with mark meadows when we're talking ten minutes. i met his time constraints, everything went fine. i appreciate him, at least upping it from when i arrived there, it was supposed to be three, four, five minutes whatever it was. >> you've been in public life for a while, you have been an elected official for a while. before don trump came on to the scene, right? have you talked to jeff sessions. have you talked to jeff sessions at all? i'm watching your career arc here and it looks like, a little like your fellow alabama republican jeff sessions.
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a senator from alabama, and early trump supporter, he is elevated to a g. but because donald trump is who he is, that trump doesn't like the fact that jeff sessions does what he thinks is required by the law. he crashes the guy, destroys him at a republican primary. the whole time with jeff sessions desperately begging donald trump to endorse him. his career ends with him in a sort of bizarre supplicant position to dollar trump who wants nothing to do with him. i wonder if you've learned any lessons from that? >> the last time i saw jeff sessions was probably about a year ago. that's that. as far as this race, i want to emphasize something. don trump has not endorsed my point. there are reasons why he is not endorse my opponent in the nine state senate race. it is incumbent upon me to help folks understand the reasoning why don't trump is not endorsing my opponent. my opponent is a part of the
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establishment, a much mcconnell candidate, opposing open borders. she for need for special interest. that is a big contrast between myself and him. also probably, some of the reasons why don't has declined to endorse katie britt. you leaned ask him those questions as to why he has done what he's done. i'm not in a very good position to mind read. >> let me ask you this final question after he rescinded that endorsement i want to play for you. it got attention about him contacting you to rescind the election. take a listen. >> the president has asked me to rescind the election of 2020. >> you said that is illegal. you can't do that. what did he ask you and what did you tell him? >> we have to rescind the election, we have to take joe biden out and put me now. >> he still says? that >> yes. i'm going, mister president. i'm giving him advice, i read
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the constitution, i know it. i said mister president, he can't do that. >> you've seen from my previous block that i am a straight shooter and sometimes i'll say when i agree with something even if i don't agree. i agree with liz cheney, i agree with you moe brooks on the fact the constant to shun doesn't like you rescind an election. are you allowed, are you worried that the former president is not all there or mentally fit. that seems like a delusional thing to ask him. >> if i had been the victim of voter fraud i would've wanted the same thing. what you can do is different matter, that's for the law to decide. i would've voted the same thing. i would would have voted to be reinstated. i would've wanted to do everything, but as you as i know and the consultation of the united states code, the deadline is january 6th. i wish it was longer but it's not. but i wouldn't want the same
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thing that president trump wanted, that's what he believes, that's what i believe. >> that belief is wrong unfortunately two great, great negative effect. >> you can debate that subject, i'll take you toe to toe. you name the time, give us enough time to discuss this. you go down you list of things, i'll go down my list of things, there is 50 congressman -- >> there was truly nothing in this role that i want less. thank you very much congressman moe brooks. i appreciate it. >> [laughs] >> and all this answer. when we come back, the republican congressman who says he is prepared to fight for his life on january 6th. diego joins me next. diego joins me next. diego joins me next. have a heart attack, it shook me. aspirin helps reduce the chance of another heart attack by 31%. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. panera chefs have crafted a masterpiece... succulent, seared chicken... a secret aioli... clean ingredients... in a buttery brioche roll. made fresh, to leave you...
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they are scared. they are really, really scared. i was a military man in the united states marine corps. i had to deal with some very aggressive crowds when i was in iraq. individuals themselves aren't usually the problem. but when they get collectively together and they create a mob, the mob is the weapon. >> use your helmet [noise]. >> i was ready to fight. i saw a lot of stuff back in the day and i was not going to die before i approached a house of representatives. i wasn't gonna be taken out by some insurrectionist bastard. my plan was to stab someone in
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the eye and take away the weapon. fight to survive. >> that was arizona congressman diego, recounting what was going through his head as the rider surrounded the house. that they, when they started attacking the door dye ago was instructing his colleagues on how to put on their gas masks, he was riling up other members of congress to fight the way out. congressman joins me now. i'm probably too obsessed with this question but i will admit that i am, the question i discussed with marlbrook's on this program. do they believe it or not, is this all senate go, tactical to further their political careers. even at the cost of the democracy, even at the cost of lives. or have they convince themselves of this entirely delusional lie? >> chris, the question you have
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to ask yourself, does it matter? at the end of the day, it has the same and results. cowards that backup lunatic's still end up being lunatic's. cowards that end up backing of the cowards or cowards. leaders need to stand up and say, this is wrong. clearly, they are not doing it. whether they believe it or not, it is still a fault, it is still listen. it is still the dereliction of their duty as a member of congress. >> you have been very outspoken about your experience that they, i'm gonna ask you when i asked germany earlier. you can hear the adrenaline in the throat of lindsey graham. that post fight or flight adrenaline that you can get. i wonder if that is a recall -able sensation for republicans that were there hiding from the
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crowd that day along with you. >> i can't answer for that. we called parents a time you think the constitution of the united states is in danger. the most dangerous thing that day wasn't my life, it wasn't the members of congress because let's be honest, i am replaceable. all those numbers are replaceable. we can never replace the actual wound we've done to democracy, the handoff of power from one party to another. that was the danger that day. the fact that you can't recall it when it is in danger, like we are seeing right now, is the root of the problem. it is always easy, is always gonna be easy when you're actually faced with danger. unfortunately, i've seen some of it in my day. you will always be able to get some of that to protect yourself or run. it is in the quiet times, the easy kind of times when there
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is slow moving through that we see right now, you are willing to actually stand out, you are willing to be the ad the kits of the party and say this is wrong, i'm going to take that very strong stand right now that doesn't require me to have adrenaline. what it requires me is to have courage, a prior courage that may not be backed up by anyone else. >> that courage is so obviously lacking. we are watching it. watching it in realtime. elise stefanik, putting out her statements about how this is a democrat-led witch hunt. do you think it's more or less likely that this kind of thing could succeed in america now as these hearings are set to begin? and as someone who serves in that building than, say, on january 7th in the immediate aftermath? >> i don't think you are ever going to see another physical coup. you are not going to see a bunch of fat dudes able to just storm the house of
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representatives. there is always gonna be better security, they are always going to be better prepared. i think there is going to be, potentially, if they are ever try to do that again, there's also going to be pushback from opposition. this is something that people don't understand. there is always a push and pull things. the danger isn't that the fat to do then maga has invaded the capital. it's the brook brothers women and men in suits that are going to the capitals -- the state capitals of the country -- and changing our voting laws. or changing who actually gets to choose who the electors are. or it's the republican lawyers that are making decisions about how to actually mess up the count. that's the danger. the coup is not going to be a physical coup. it's going to be done quietly, in the boardroom's, in the courtrooms and in the county rooms. that is what we have to be afraid of. >> and do you think these hearings can set the table for preventing that? >> i certainly think we can.
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no matter what, and as cynical as we all may be in this country, i think we do have a common vein. a common vein that we love democracy. >> yes. >> we understand that we are all united in that blood that runs through all of us. that we may not agree. i was not republican happy when republicans won in the past. but you know what, legitimately time to move on. i hope republicans -- and i think most of them -- and actually i think still a lot of republicans still believe that. we have to get back to that period. by exposing what happened, by exposing all the people involved, from the smallest person to the highest person, you understand that there is a danger here. also, more importantly, i think it shows what can happen when you have the cowardice of man. and the cowardice of men and women that didn't stand up to donald trump at any point and said you are wrong. because i have heard it. let's be clear. and mo brooks was giving a ton of bs in his interview. he was talking about rinos, the
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rinos he is talking about our vice president pence. >> he was in the capitol -- >> hanged on that day. i'm not mad at brooks and his colleagues for trying to encourage an attack on democrats or republicans. i am at because they are encouraging the attack on democracy, of process, a thing that is cherished in this country. and so he is trying to limit his, i would say, sin to one day. but he was there since the election before the election. and all the way to january 6th. there was also a lot of other people. there was a kevin mccarthy who didn't say who donald trump on november 8th or november 9th, saying, hey, you lost this election, stop this. no. what did we hear? he just needs time to process. the public access for this man child that couldn't accept the fact that he lost. lost. by the way, it wasn't even close.
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>> it was not close. >> it's a huge loss. the guy is a loser and people just can't accept it. >> yeah. >> let's be honest, the reason he is where he is right now is because there's tons of people around him who kept on supporting this man child in his psychopathic tendencies. >> quickly, are you going to watch tomorrow night? >> i will. i will. i feel -- one of the things that many of us did. i don't know if it ended up in one of these documentaries or not, after we went back to the floor, a couple of us, especially some of our younger members decided we would stay on the floor until the voting was done. because we were not sure that it wouldn't come back. >> yep. >> so, i'm not -- i'm not going to be there physically. i'm not there physically to try tothing. but i still believe that i still have to stand watch, at least to see the truth come
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out. and help spread the truth. because in the end, that is what is going to save our democracy. >> congressman ruben gallego, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> still to come, what to expect, the lessons from watergate and why justice could really look like. that's just ahead. t ahead. and her favorite shade of green. it's actually salem clover. and you can find her right now on when the world is your workforce, finding the perfect project manager, designer, developer, or whomever you may need... tends to fall right into place. find top-rated talent who can start today on ♪♪
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making friends again, billy? i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing. ♪♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too. would you say tense? i'd say suspenseful. aren't they the same thing? can we move on guys, please? alexa, turn on the subtitles. and dim the lights. ok, dimming the lights. ♪ limu emu ♪
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off carrying them live, all day long, gavel to gavel, and by june the networks got together and decided to rotate them nonstop coverage to abc, cbsn nbc. public broadcasting, for its part, never stop covering the hearings, even replaying them in primetime. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> watergate, senate hearings. >> the committee will come to order. today, the select committee on presidential campaign activities, begins hearings into the extent to which illegal, improper or unethical activities were involved in the 1972 presidential election campaign. >> i know the answer! by some estimates, 80% of american households washed at least some portion of the hearings, that's more than 150 million people. the televised hearings made a big difference in public opinion about watergate and about nixon, whose approval rating dropped significantly. and they were a major contributor to nixon's
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downfall. tomorrow night, the january six committee will get its turn to make its case directly to the american people. our politics are often defined more by the issues that are front of mind for the public, rather than different party positions. because at anytime, there is a lot of stuff to debate and fight over. and only a few of those issues will get much attention from the media or people. that is a huge effect about the on the shape of political narratives and also what americans vote on. right now, some of the things driving our politics -- ukraine, inflation, gun violence -- but the basic prerequisite for all those debates is maintaining our democratic system, which is, of course, less concrete idea for most people than the price of meat milk. these hearings, beginning tomorrow, are a way of focusing public attention on the health status of american democracy and those who still seek to destroy a. the committee will attempt to expose the full detailed record of the attempted coup on january 6th and the people who tried to assassinate our system. that is why it really matters of people watch these hearings.
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and not just those who already agreed that the insurrection was consequential and dangerous. if you have a fox views news viewing friend, encourage them to watch. that alone should tell you everything you need to know about fox news. -- it's hard to get people living in a democracy to focus on democracy itself. but if we don't do that, we will be in a lot of trouble. so, we talk about must see tv, this is it. from more on what we are about to experience, what would be considered justice, attempting to overthrow american democracy, i'm joined by keith ellison, who served as attorney general for minnesota, and represented the state's fifth congressional district. and jill wine-banks, who served as assistant watergate special prosecutor. and author of the watergate girl. it's good to have you both. jill, let me start with you. obviously, there is such a different atmosphere, media environment, levels of partisan i station, everything.
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-- i wonder if there is any retrievable comparison or lessen. >> there is, although i worry about the differences from then to now. i worry about the absence of a narrator. during watergate, we had john dean, who was an insider who could take us from the beginning of the plot to the end of the plot. i worry that this plot goes on until today. and it started much before january 6th. so, this cannot be called the january 6th hearings, though that may be a summary of it. but it started way before that, and the committee has to cover all of that. i worry about the media silos and the voter silos, the partisanship, during watergate. it was the republicans who, when we subpoenaed the trials tapes, we subpoenaed 64 tapes. one of which was known as the smoking gun tape. and on it you can hear the president saying, let's use the
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cia to stop the fbi from following the money trail, which would have showed that the money that the burglars had came from a campaign check that they had cashed. and yet it was the republicans who went to him and said, we have seen the evidence. the facts matter. you will be convicted on the charges of impeachment that have been brought against you. and he said, well, i have your support, don't i? and this was the top three republicans in the house and the senate. and barry goldwater, who had been a presidential candidate, and they said, you do not even have our support. and he resigned the next day. so, those are the kinds of differences that are going to affect things. but i think, well done, the committee can get perhaps not the fox viewers who, as you said -- first of all, they are not covering it -- but even if they were, those people are not going to believe it. so they are going to have to persuade a few of the independents who are open minded about this who might
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change their votes. and they have to motivate the democrats to get out and vote in big numbers so that we don't have a recurrence in the 2024 election. >> keith, you served in congress obviously, and you also served as an agency, and oversaw the trial of police officers in the george floyd case, which was of course a legal trial, but also fully in the public eye. how do you think about the goal here for the committee starting tomorrow? >> i am a prosecutor. and i think about victims. i think about the police officers who lost their eyes as a result of this. i think about the members of congress who were the victim of criminal attempts of assault and other kinds of things. and i think about the american people, who really all were victims of the attack on democracy. the [inaudible] born during the show. the youngest person in america was the victim of the attack on
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democracy, all of us. i think of it as people, as victims, and the suffering that we all endured and could well and you are in the future unless we bring people to account who attacked our democracy, attacked law enforcement officers, and in minnesota we got people here who want to jail the secretary of state. we got people here who celebrate the insurrectionists. i believe we need to have victory in the court of public opinion, that rejects this ugly, violent, horrible attack on multiracial democracy. >> that point about victims, i think, is actually concrete ties-ing something for me, which is difficult for me, when i talk about the abstractness. that's the issue here. we are all the victim. the thing i keep coming to is, this was a plot and conspiracy to throw out peoples votes, to tell it's the ultimate imposition of tyranny, to tell people you don't get to choose, we choose.
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we, like, the vice president, the political elected leaders. that part, i think, hasn't quite gotten through. and i think, keith, that that focusing on the victims helps frame that. >> absolutely. the thing is, if we look at some other country, where a group of people try to say, we are going to violently take away your right to choose your leaders, we will choose them for you to our liking, we would all stand back and denounce a situation. the un would issue declarations of denunciation. you would have letters flying out to congress about the human rights abuses. well, it happened here, folks. we have got to do something or we for sure we'll see it again. and i also have to tell you, you know, reuben guy a guy who is in here earlier, he said, that guy is a friend of mine -- a personal buddy of mine. and if i came to d.c. i would probably grab dinner, be looking for him. and yet these people were threatening him, personally. along with other people, a very, very dear to me. and i don't really know mike
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pence. but it outrages me. >> yeah. >> because he refuses to assist them, and instead to [inaudible] kill him, which is where the hanging is. and then who can never forget the confederate flags in auschwitz t-shirts? there was an element of racism there. they object, to all americans, -- participating in democracy. >> attorney general keith ellison and jill wine-banks, thank you both, appreciate it. thank you for joining us for this special edition of all in, lawrence o'donnell's loss last word starts. now i know you've been concentrating on the hearing tomorrow. i think concentrating on the house hearing this morning about uvalde, about the mass shooting in baltimore. i heard there something that changed my understanding of how bad this is. goes actually description by a doctor


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