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tv   Alex Witt Reports  MSNBC  January 23, 2022 10:00am-11:00am PST

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a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to "alex witt reports." new polling on both sides of the political aisle shows almost three-quarters of americans saying this country is divided and headed in the wrong direction. 70% say americans can't solve issues and differences will continue to grow. topping the issues are jobs and the economy and the coronavirus. encouraging words from dr. fauci suggesting infections from the
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omicron variant are expected to peak in the coming weeks. >> it's by no north koreans exempt from making people sick and putting them into the hospital, particularly those who are not vaccinated. however, what we would hope is as we get into the next weeks to month or so, we'll see throughout the entire country the level of infection get to below what i call that area of control. meanwhile russia is denying a new report from the british government. as tensions remain high, secretary of state antony blinken says u.s. is willing to give russia assurances on only a handful of nato-related items. >> arms control, greater transparency, risk reduction, the placement of missile systems, things of that nature. at the same time, i was very clear with foreign minister lavrov that there are certain basic principles that we're not by one iota going to compromise
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on, including nato's open door. if a single additional russian force goes into ukraine in an aggressive way, that will trigger a swift, a severe and a united response from us and from europe. joining us this hour, nbc's josh lederman at the white house. josh, we're starting with you as the tensions are escalating between russia and ukraine. what are we hearing from white house today about this situation? >> as we hear officials respond to that new intelligence assessment from the uk suggesting that russia could be plotting to try to install a pro-russian leader in ukraine instead of president zelensky, with the national security council saying that kind of plotting is deeply concerning. secretary of state blinken who you just saw a minute ago saying the u.s. has been warning of just these kind of russian tactics for weeks now because they want the world to be on
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alert so that, if russia tries something to try to create a predicate for an invasion or to make it look like they're only acting defensively, they want the world to call that out in realtime, to say, look, we knew you were going to do that, now we've done it. don't use that as an excuse to make an excuse for the international community. the real focus is to put on a display of solidarity to show that this is not just the biden administration acting alone to try to curb russia's actions against ukraine. so to that end, there have been these questions after president biden in his news conference seems to indicate that some of our european allies might not be on board with the same kinds of actions that the u.s. is threatening against russia. but secretary of state blinken saying he doesn't think that's the case. he does think the europeans are on board with this and also are just as concerned about their own security as the united
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states is. we're also seeing that solidarity with lawmakers in an effort to show that the support for really cracking down on russia is bipartisan. take a listen to what a republican senator and a democratic senator had to say this morning about next steps towards russia. >> we need to be very aggressive and pushing back against president putin, whether that's in the form of sanctions, expulsion from the swiss banking system, certainly sanctions on the nord stream 2 pipeline, diplomacy is very important at this point, but also showing a strong resolve from the united states of america. so far with this administration we have seen a doctrine of appeasement. >> i do think we should take up and pass a bipartisan bill that will show resolve and determination and apply some sanctions now, but the very strongest sanctions, the sorts of sanctions we use to bring iran to the table is something we should hold out as a
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deterrent to prevent putin from taking the last step of invading ukraine. president biden finishing the weekend at camp david where he met yesterday with national security officials including national security adviser jake sullivan. they had a meeting to try to figure out how the u.s. is going to respond this week. but we also know that the white house is leaving open the possibility that president biden could have another conversation, be it by phone or a virtual video conference with president putin, the u.s. saying that even as they make clear what the punishments will be for russia, they also wanted to be known they are still leaving that door wide open to diplomacy with moscow. >> julie, let's move to you there on capitol hill as we have the house select committee's investigation into january 6th. that's certainly heating up. what's the latest from there? >> reporter: alex, i think it's
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impossible to overstate how big of a victory it was for the committee to finally get their hands on the 700 documents that former president trump was trying to keep from the committee. you had bennie thompson, the chairman of the panel, say today on cbs they're pouring over those documents, that it's taking even longer to move into the public phase of their investigation, documents that we don't know everything that's in them except for the executive order, the unsigned draft instructing our military to seize voting machines. we do know what the committee wanted to know. they wanted to see call logs, visitor logs, specific details showing the minute by minute work innings of former president trump at the white house on january 6th. we heard today also on cnn from melissa farrah, who was an assistant to president trump in 2020 and a press secretary to vice president mike pence and the defense department. take a listen to what she said. >> i think you'll see the anatomy of the big lie unfold. when you see more text messages
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coming out that knew the election fraud was a myth and privately saying we can't keep spreading this craziness. i think this chips away at trump's credibility and really gets to him. >> farrah understands the big picture here because she held all those close positions in the white house and in the defense department before that, and she also spoke to the january 6th committee already in addition to other aids of former vice president mike pence telling them what she knows. here she's saying she knows of advisers and possible exchanges in which folks around trump were trying to placate him, trying to placate his big lie, so to say. it's important to point out that we have not heard from former president trump responding to this executive order or the 700 docs that the january 6th committee have. >> we do know he didn't want them to get them. let's bring in dr. mary trump, author of "the reckoning."
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i emphasize doctor because that phd is something worth recognizing. that took a lot of work for you. thank you for being here. as we talk about the january 6th panel, your cousin ivanka called to testify about what she knows about the counting of the electoral votes last year. ivanka was a senior white house official at the time. do you think she has potential insight into all of that? would ivanka have been that close of an adviser to her father? >> yeah. i think there's no question about that. first of all, she was there. she was in the oval office, in the room with him. from what i understand, she was one of the very few people left who could even approach him. so she has information that the american people deserve. her sally was paid by the american people. she worked for the american people, not for her father.
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this is an adult human being. she's 40 years old. she has churn of her own. the whole, she should be protected because she's his child is absurd on its face. she owes the committee truthfulness about what happened that day. it's crucially important that we know what happened that day. >> 100%. let me just say i know she owes the american people because of the position she had. i think you know this, and maybe forgot, that she didn't take a salary, so there's that. chairman bennie thompson wrote in his request to ivanka that general keith kellogg testified that the white house staff wanted trump to take immediate action, quell the unrest. but he thought ivanka may be the only person to get him to act. you said she was one of the few that could get to him. here is the quote. presumably the first time ivanka trump went in, it wasn't
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sufficient or she wouldn't have had to go back at least one more time, i assume. is that correct? you heard kellogg saying, yes, i think she went back in there because ivanka can be pretty tenacious. you make a point about that we know a lot about what she did which includes that she called personally for a stop to the violence at 3:15. do you think ivanka has to wrestle at all with what she knows happened, the extent to which she was there participating in everything on january 6th, and this request to speak to the committee. what's that like for her? >> i think what's probably happening with my cousins and donald is they're trying to make the calculation of what is in their best interests. donald isn't playing the card that she's his child to protect her. he's doing that to protect
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himself because he knows she may, indeed, have potentially damning information. she's making the same calculation. what will help her in the long run because she must understand that, as a government employee, as somebody who is at least involved by association, sboed who was there that day and wasn't taking any direct action to stop what was going on, at least not publicly, she knows she has to come down on the right side of things or she'll continue to stay her father's ally and have to see how that plays out. she's in a very bad situation because she must understand that, if donald feels it's necessary, he will stop protecting her. >> wow, even though he says it's unfair that they're going after his children -- there's a quote from him in the washington examiner, you don't think
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there's any chance he would step forward and said say i'm going to take the heat in an effort to shield my kids, that would never happen? >> no, no. i want to start by pointing out the enormous hypocrisy of this man who went after and continues to go after hunter biden who, last i checked, never worked for the federal government. so his double standard is grotesque on its face. no, donald will throw anybody under the bus if he believes it's in his best interest to do so, if he believes it will help play out the clock, help him avoid accountability. that's all he cares about. >> good point you make there about the double standard relative to hunter biden. let's talk about what's happening closer to home with new york attorney general leticia james. james says they have uncovered significant evidence that suggests trump and the trump organization falsely and fraudulently valued multiple
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assets and misrepresented those values to financial institutions for economic benefit. the trump organization says james is misleading the public and has no case. this says that the reported value of trump's triplex apartment increased by $127 million in one year, from $200 million to $327 million and he reported the apartment was 30,000 square feet, about three times what it really was, which is 11,000 square feet. do you think your uncle is gaming the system, or as the trump organization claims this is just misleading? >> that's one of the really frustrating things about being a new yorker. we've all known he's been pulling this stuff for a very long time. not only that, it's just been, no, not that we can necessarily prove it. we have had in the last three or four years two brilliantly
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investigated reports by "the new york times" that have laid out these very kinds of behaviors. so the fact that this is still under investigation, that there's still even a question is quite frustrating, but it does look like leticia james is putting the pieces together in a way that is absolutely watertight. >> okay. mary trump, many thanks for joining us. i appreciate talking with you. a new chapter starts tomorrow in the search for justice for george floyd. those details in just a moment. those details in just a moment i absolutely have to be sharp. let me tell ya, i was struggling with my memory. it was going downhill. my friend recommended that i try prevagen and over time, it made a very significant difference in my memory and in my cognitive ability. i started to feel a much better sense of well-being.
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new twist today in the escalating tensions between ukraine and russia. the u.s. government saying kremlin officials are planning to install puppet leadership in ukraine.
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russia calling the report, quote, misinformation. this comes as the first u.s. shipment of weapons arrived the in kiev. raffa sanchez is live in london. walk us through the latest here. >> reporter: alex, we are seeing that russian military force on ukraine's border continuing to grow and grow. by some estimates there are now more than 120,000 russian troops to the north, to the east and to the south of the ukrainian border. the latest edition is a squadron of fighter jets deployed to neighboring belarus. the navy saying those are there as part of a training exercise, not part of a potential invasion force. despite the looming military threat, secretary of state antony blinken has been on the sunday shows today saying he has not yet given up on the possibility of a diplomatic breakthrough. remember, russia has put forward a series of proposals, you can say demands, that the u.s.
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basically sees as a non-starter. they would effectively lead to the dismantling of nato in eastern europe. secretary blinken says the u.s. with respond in writing to those russian demands and see if there is any room for compromise. take a listen to what he had to say about that. >> the russians have put concerns on the table that they say they have about their security. we exchanged some ideas we'll be sharing with the russians in writing, flolt only our concerns, but some ideas for a way forward that could enhance mutual security on a reciprocal basis. look, that is clearly the preferable path forward for everyone. >> reporter: alex, as you said, president biden has sent the first trench of u.s. weaponry to the ukrainian military. the president is under pressure to do more and do it now. the president of ukraine is calling for the u.s. to move
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ahead with sanctions now before russian troops cross the border. you're starting to hear that call being echoed by both democrats and republicans in washington. the line from the biden administration for now is they are holding off on sanctions, but if russian troops do roll across the border, they will look to impose a swift and united set of responses, not just from the u.s., but nato allies in europe as well. >> a lot of the sunday talk shows had lawmakers saying we want to impose sanctions now. we'll see if the biden administration picks up on that, raf. joining me, senator tina smith, democrat from minnesota. welcome, senator. good to see you again. let me ask you about the situation first in ukraine, your reaction to the latest development from the u.k. and the way the biden administration is handling things so far. are you among those who believe some level of sanction should be
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imposed now? is it just to say this is the kind of message we want to send. >> thank you, alex. it's great to be with you. as i listened to secretary blinken, his clear message that our response to a russia invasion of ukraine is going to be severe, it is going to be swift and it's going to be united. i think that is the most important thing. united not only in the united states where we see democrats and republicans joining together in a united way, but also with our nato allies. it's clear what russia is attempting to do right now is muddy the water and fabricate excuses. we have to stand really tough against that. i think it's good that congress is considering taking action. appreciate what my colleague senator coons said a little while ago. >> let's talk about where this
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foreign crisis stands big picture-wise. we have the president hoping to start his second year in office with something of a reset. you will know he's facing challenges on the domestic front. there's a new nbc news poll that shows almost three-quarters of americans believe this country is headed in the wrong direction. what do you make of that and what do you think the president should do this year to try to turn things around for the party, for the public as a whole, especially as we approach the midterms? >> i think that here in minnesota people have been going through so much this last year, the covid pandemic. there's just been so much disruption in our lives, i think particularly of parents struggling to figure out how to go back to work, lack of access to child care. it's been a really, really hard year. i think in the midst of all that, it's difficult to keep our focus on things that have actually improved over the last year. a year ago hardly anybody had a
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vaccine. today most people in my state have had the ak covid-19 and many on their way to getting the booster. a year ago 6.4 million people didn't have jobs that have jobs today. it's not enough to say, oh, we made great headway. we have to push forward. when i head back to washington in a week, i'll be looking very hard at what we can do to get progress of the important things we need to get done, affordable health care, let's get to work on these things we can find 50 votes for in the senate and get them done. >> to that end, let's take a listen to what your colleague bernie sanders said democrats should do next when it comes to passing legislation. here it is. >> that is to take it to the republicans, to bring important pieces of legislation that impact the lives of working families on the floor of the senate. if the republicans want to vote to protect the wealthy and the
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powerful, that's their right. let the american people see what's happening. >> senator, do you agree with that approach? do you think it's possible to break up the bill, pass pieces of it? wouldn't it be more effective to have every republican senator vote on each issue, prescription drug prices, child tax credit, paid family leave, all these things, get each on the record opposing it potentially? >> i agree with that. i think we should go on the record about what we're for and what we're against. a frustration we've had is we've been talking behind the scenes instead of voting on things in public. i'm a progressive, but i want to deliver for americans. my question is what can we get done that has 50 votes, understanding not a single republican as far as i'm aware of is going to vote to lower prescription drug costs, vote to have us take action on transitioning to a clean energy economy, is going to vote to lower taxes for the very wealthiest among us.
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let's figure out where we have support amidst 50 democrats. let get it done and vote on it. >> the arizona democratic party voted unanimously to censure your colleague, senator kyrsten sinema. >> i disagree strongly with her position. we have far right republicans in state legislatures across america rolling back access to the pallet box. i think that's deeply damaging to oush elections and to people's trust in our elections. it's important to say that we won't change senate rules i think is flat out wrong. i disagree with her very strongly. >> there are democrats falling for senator sinema to face a primary challenger in her next election. this could set that up. is that the best idea though? then the party potentially runs
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the risk of a republican getting elected instead because arizona is a purple state. >> you're pointing out very important things about the complexities of these state political environments. far be it for me to weigh into the realities of the arizona political scene. that is not my job. i'm focused on delivering for my voters in minnesota and for our country. i think what is important is we are clear about where we stand on these issues. as i said, i think she's flat-out wrong about what we do about making these rules work. the political realities that we'll be all coping with the next year will be very important. if we focus on how we're delivering and will continue to deliver for americans, i believe at the end democrats will win. >> all right. i'm going to ask you one last question about your home state of minnesota, that being relative to the opening statements that begin in the trial of the three former police
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officers, those accused of violating george floyd's civil rights. how has this whole case affected your state? what's changed? >> the murder of george floyd just a few miles from where i sit right now in my own den has i think opened the eyes of a lot of white people in my home state about the impacts of racism and prejudice in our police departments that mean that the standards that black people face are completely different, and that is why george floyd died, because he had his civil rights i believe violated. now, we have coming up this federal civil rights lawsuit, three former minneapolis police officers are going to be held accountable for their part in standing by while derek chauvin murdered george floyd. i think this will be an additional step we have to take, very important additional step to move us toward accountability
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and i hope ultimately change so policing in this country and in my own state is truly fair to everybody. >> i know you'll be watching that trial very, very closely, senator tina smith, knew for joining me. i look forward to seeing you again, thanks. >> thank you so much they've gathered to protest vaccine mandates. for many people, is it really the mandate that bothers them the most? we'll speak with mehdi hasan in just a minute. just a minute. who would've thought printing... could lead to growing trees. ♪
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getting their message out? >> i talked to a number of people throughout the morning. they're frustrated. they feel like their rights have been infringed on and feel they have been ignored. there are thousands of people on the steps of the lincoln memorial, and they're from all over the country, from minnesota to new york, from south carolina to here in the d.c. area, and there are a variety of different types of people. people who have vaccinated are here. people who have unvaccinated are here. folks who are anti-vax, but voeks who are just anti-mandate. they all have the same message, they don't think the government should be forcing vaccinations on anybody for any reason, whether that's for jobs, for schools ar to go into a restaurant. they do have some concerns about the impact of vaccination impacts. here is what one woman i spoke to had to say. >> i've never been forced to
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take anything for myself for any kind of medical reason or anything, and i feel like to coerce somebody to make that decision is really unjust. it's sad. i would hate to have -- i don't know anybody directly who was fired, but i know it's happened, and it just breaks my heart because i know what it takes to feed a family. >> reporter: we're in a bit of a musical interlude right now. there have been more than 30 speakers today including robert f. kennedy jr., noted anti-vaxer and conspiracy theorist as well as dr. robert malone, one of the researchers and founders of the mrna vaccine. those are the types of people that the thousands of people have come to listen to. alex? >> all right, gary, thank you so much for a great setup and report there as we bring in on the hooerls of that, mehdi hasan, msnbc political analyst
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and host of the mehdi hasan show. big welcome to you. we see this anti-vax seen mandate protests there in washington, d.c. this entire mandate to challenge vaccine safety and fight mandates, it was once considered fringe, but it's not going away. in fact, it may be picking up steam. it's been going on too long for folks. do you think it's more than that? >> i think it's a bit of that. i think the kind of people you're seeing in d.c., screaming at school boards and in public places, this is a culture wars issue now. it's become a badge of identity. and the moment you really, really knew that was the case is when donald trump at a recent rally said, hey, get the booster and people started booing him and he said, hey, it's your choice. i won't force you. trump is seen as a suspicious figure by some on the far right.
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he's saying he got the booster. even people on the right saying, is he one of us still? that's how powerful a grip the anti-vax movement has on the broader conservative movement that even trump is seen as suspect for endorsing vaccines and someone like ron desantis, a rival of his for 2024, is going out of his way not to say he got the booster. you saw the guy saying i've never been forced to take anything. kids have to get vaccinations before they go to school. that's not new. the logical and next dark step is in florida, republican lawmakers saying let's get rid of all vaccine mandates. hello all the diseases we thought were behind us. >> yeah, no thanks. you bring up the donald trump factor. how much do you think he gave license to or gave voice to this anti-vax movement given the way he opposed covid, the denying, all of that, saying drink
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bleach. that's one way to fix it. how much was donald trump responsible for augmenting this movement? >> it's a tricky one. when it comes to covid denialism, he was the leader. we know that when he was telling bob woodward in private saying it was really, really bad but in public saying it's not that bad. he mocked joe biden for wearing masks. when it came to the vaccines, every living former president i believe got vaccinated on tape, on camera. donald trump and his wife got vaccinated in secret. imagine the impact that could have had over a year ago had they done that at the white house. imagine if he told his base back then go get vaccinated. he's lost control of his base. that's where you have to put a lot of blame on the social media companies that have allowed this to spread online. mark zuckerberg has to hold his hands up and take responsibility for the anti-vax movement which used to be fringe because it used to never have access to
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these platforms that can amplify around the world. when south africa having its omicron square, they weren't short of vaccines like other developing countries. they returned vaccines because there's no need for them. in south africa, there's growing anti-vaxism. why? because of social media. they got it from facebook. >> it's always interesting when someone comes to me with an opinion and say, you know, i heard. uh-huh, consider the source. among the many young people out there, robert k. kennedy jr. and the like, interesting when you see people of that stature here. is that a surprise to you? >> not really. last i checked robert f. kennedy has a famous last name but isn't an epidemiologist or virologist of any kind. the few doctors and scientists who they do rally to their cause are a minority, tend to have said some wacky things.
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it's like change. this remientds me of the climate change debate where you have an overwhelming consensus of experts who say one thing, who point to all the evidence that goes in one direction. you have a tiny minority, one or two doctors or professors who are jumped upon by idiots online. see, see, there's a scientist on our side. great, you have one or two wackos on your side. but the vast consensus of the scientific establishment says one thing about climate change, about covid vaccines. it's really depressing to see people being, i don't know, manipulated in this way, people who are not experts, but refusing to follow the experts. look what's happened to dr. fauci with the help of the republican party. i have my criticisms of dr. fauci and the cdc, but the way he's been demonized and treated as public enemy number one, what kind of country do we live anywhere the top doctor has to walk around with armed guards because people want to try to
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kill him. that's something we have to have a long hard think about what's happened to our country. let me ask you about britain and how it's changing its tune. prime minister boris johnson who we might pre mind our viewers you faced off with very well in an oxford-style debate, is lifting its mask mandate to show proof of vaccination. the government is also no longer advising people to work from home. how much of this is politically motivated mehdi, or is the pandemic in a new stage of evolution there maybe just because of the duration of time? >> look, i think a lot of it is blitt cli motivated. that's not to say that the uk cases haven't peaked. it looks like they have started to peak. i was there for a week in england over christmas. it was crazy bad. people were really worried.
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i would add, by the way, adults, it's peaked for adults in the uk, not for children. for children it's going up day by day. the united kingdom has never taken the threat of covid to children as seriously as other countries. here where we have vaccines approved for hem think under 12. they don't have the same rules there. it's always been an issue with the bro techs of children in the uk. i would add that one caveat on the science front. on the political front, i would say it's definitely political from boris johnson's perspective. he's under fire. this is a guy who might lose his job this week, multiple members are putting in letters of no confidence because there were multiple parties in downing street and other government departments at a time when the uk had a very strict lockdown involving police officers handing out fines, criminal offenses. and yet while they were telling the rest of the country you can only go out with one person,
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they were having parties with 20, 30, 40 people, inviting 100 people to a downing street party telling them to bring their own booze. alex, you and i, if we turn up to an event where -- that's what the prime minister of the uk tried to claim. he says, well, i'll lift the restrictions for all of you, for the whole country. he got a massive cheer from members of his own party which tells me it was a very political event. >> before he became prime minister and he was just boris, how well did you know him when you debated him? could you call him up and say, boris, what are you doing? >> no. thankfully i never knew him that well. he was mayor of london. what's interesting about boris johnson. when i debated him, that's when i was at university and he was an editor.
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he was always a bit eccentric and fun. what was interesting, as the mayor of london, alex, he was very, quote, unquote, moderate. he was a mitt romney reasonable conservative, tried to reach out to people, wasn't that hard line on immigration and yet to become prime minister of the conservative party in the uk, like with the republican party today, you have to get more and more experience. even if his heart is not in lifting covid restrictions, that's what his base wants, what his backbenchers and lawmakers want. conservative parties across the west, they're moving more to the far right, the authoritarian right. whether it's boris johnson, donald trump who is now, quote, unquote, to the left of some of his party on the vaccine. not that vaccines should be a left or right issue by the way. >> 100% right on that one. the mehdi hasan show is tonight
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at 8:00 p.m. tonight. it continues monday through thursday at 7:00 eastern on the peacock streaming channel. the real world implications of the supreme court striking down the president's vaccine mandate and what it means for private companies who now have to make their own rules. to make their own rules. ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? it's because they rub against you creating friction. and your clothes rub against you all day. for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle. just pour into the rinse dispenser and downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, fluffier, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle. recognized by the national psoriasis foundation and national eczema association.
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while protesters push back against vaccine mandates in the nation's capital, the supreme
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court struck down the biden administration's attempt to require millions of american workers to get the shot, state governments and private companies will be tasked with making their own vaccine rules. nbc's scott kohn is joining us from their own vaccine rules. scott, welcome. what are you hearing about the future of mandates in california? >> reporter: it's confusing to say the least. they've included boosters for city workers and city owned fa facilities. if you look at the situation nationwide, just the mandates for state workers, that varies widely. 19 states in the light red require mandates.
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ten states actually ban them. so there will be a patchwork of mandates. >> i think mandates are the way that we managed to get 99% of the population vaccinated against measles. if it's up to individual choice, we may as well have 33 million states within california. states are going to have to standardize things, and laws that mandate things will have to be state laws. >> reporter: to make matters potentially even more confusing, there's legislation to lower the age of consent for vaccines to 12 years old. that would be the youngest in the nation. >> scott, thank you. many qanon followers believe
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jfk jr. is still alive and running for office. and i can't believe i had to say that. that once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone.
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we've been showing you the thousands of protesters taking to the streets of washington, d.c., rallying against vaccine mandates. it's expected to have appearances from controversial doctors. joining me now, ben collins. big welcome to you. let's get to the new article in which you break down who is who at today's rally. who are some of these characters? >> reporter: the big one is this guy named robert malone, he was on joe rogan's podcast a couple of weeks ago, promoting this rally. today, he talked about the march
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on washington, martin luther king's march on washington, saying they're standing on the shoulders of riots. comparing them to the same people from 1963. that's the moral high ground he thinks they're standing on, while spreading misinformation. >> let's get further into the article. saying the event adds momentum to activists spreading false and misleading claims about the vaccine, with mandates as an entry point. are you saying that the anti-vax movement lures people in under the guise of being against mandates? >> reporter: yes, that's their most recent tactic, because a
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lot of people in this country, most people in this country have received a vaccine in some capacity. they have a very small and almost constantly dwindling group of people to convince of their message. they're saying, maybe you got a vaccine, but we shouldn't need mandates or to prove it to people to get on a plane or to go to work or whatever. largely, they're winning that message. it's bringing people into this other misinformation by doing that. if you bring them in through the mandates, suddenly they're in the algorithm on places like facebook that are saying wild lies about the vaccine itself. it's a long term strategy for them. >> speaking of wild, i said i couldn't believe i had to articulate this on national television, qanon followers want donald trump to run for president in 2024, with jfk jr.
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as his veep pick. >> reporter: it's gotten worse. people believe there is some sort of new world order that is taking over the world. in part because of the pandemic, in part because previous president trump kept saying things along those lines. they've opened up a box to a different reality. that's what you see with the qanon movement. it's always sort of been that way. q, the fake government insider, said that -- gave a vague post about jfk jr. being alive a long time ago. two or three words, and that brings us to where we are now. >> ben, thank you. when we come back, the threats posed by a potential 2024 run by donald trump.
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