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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  January 16, 2022 11:00pm-1:00am PST

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of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. >> i miss her smile and her laughter. i miss everything about her. >> it is more difficult to speak in public about it now. >> the news swept the nation when she vanished, laci peterson, the beaming young mom to be. >> please, please let her come home to us. >> prosecutors speak out in an in-depth television interview. >> you put so much of your life into it that it stays with you. >> laci's husband, finally hear the story he told. his rarely seen police interrogation. >> you have no idea of where laci is? >> no, i do not. >> we couldn't find anything wrong with the guy. >> he was that charming.
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>> and surprising details from the other woman who helped to uncover the truth. it still affects me emotionally. did scott peterson kill his wife? >> i do not believe he did. >> who else could have done it? >> i am glad you asked that once upon a time in a small california city lived a sweet pregnant woman with a radiant smile and outside family hardly anyone knew her name. >> my daughter's been missing since this morning. she is eight months pregnant. >> she would never know how famous the name of hers would become. >> would never know that a curious, sympathetic puzzled
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nation had cast an eye her way. laci peterson. she was 27 years old. and on the night before christmas she was gone. >> laci, if you are out there and can hear and see us, we love you. and we are searching. we are looking. >> it hit something, something in the air. that name. that smile. that mystery. impossible to put down. >> whoever has her, please, please, please let her go and bring her back to us. >> we love her so much and want her back. please. >> and then there was him, the husband. the inscrutable scott peterson. >> i really don't care what people think of me as long as it keeps laci's picture and tip line in the media. >> before our eyes he would morph from a faithful husband who loved his wife to an object
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of suspicion and outrage. such a circus the whole thing seemed to be. for all of the noise, all of the breathless coverage, the hours of tv and the acres of tabloids, there was and is a story never completely told. a story the prosecutors told dateline first. >> what do you think of scott peterson? >> he is a very unusual person. he is clearly -- i think he is very smart. i think he thinks he is very smart. >> the story that the detectives saw firsthand. >> when someone is in a position like him and they didn't do it, usually they will say take blood. take a polygraph. scott would not do that. he would only go to a point. he was steve mcqueen cool. >> the story of what happened to her, too the other woman
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whose name was thrust into a cultural moment. amber frye. >> what does a saga like that do to a person's life? >> i would say from day one it completely changed my life. >> and the story told by a frustrated ex journalist, convinced the cops, prosecutors, the public got it all wrong. >> did scott peterson kill his wife? >> i do not believe he did. >> a video we found buried in the court archives. >> you are telling me that you have no idea of where laci is. >> no, i do not. >> scott peterson talking to a detective hours after sounding the alarm, laci was missing. but before we get there we will begin here with laci peterson's mother. sharon, surrounded, fortified really by laci's best friends.
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stacey, lori and renee tomlinson. >> they seem to make you feel cheerful. >> they do. they help a lot. i am glad you are here. >> it is tough still. >> it is tough. >> perhaps, harder than ever to talk about it she said. to talk about her long dead daughter whose case so captivated the country. >> there are people growing up that don't remember or never knew about laci peterson. tell me about laci. >> i moved in the third grade and i knew nobody. she was one of the first people i met. there was no not meeting her. >> you get the idea. big personality. >> it just makes you want to whistle. >> she made everybody laugh and welcome, just with a smile. shy could smile and you would know that is the girl you will be spending the rest of the night talking to or listening to. maybe not talking so much.
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she was hard to get a word in edge wise. >> talkative, smart, tenacious. the person that went for what she wanted the way that she did for scott peterson. >> how did laci meet scott? >> at a cafe where scott worked. >> or saw him there and just like that gave awaiter her phone number to pass on to scott. >> she wasn't bashful. >> and laci's mother, liked scott. liked him a lot. >> very charming. polite. perfect gentleman. >> bring you roses. >> he would have a dozen roses for laci and a dozen for me. of course i was impressed. >> the courtship was like that, old fashioned in a good way. >> he asked our permission to marry laci. we gave him our permission. >> there was a big wedding in the certainly of 97.
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scott was a fertilizer salesman in modesto and laci a substitute teacher. his job took him on the road a lot. but they were happy. >> did the three of you get to know the two of them together much? >> i thought he was a great guy. she was always happy. >> it was a joke of gosh, does he have a brother. >> though laci struggled to get pregnant after nearly five years of marriage, that came too. >> the day after my baby shower that she threw for me. she took a pregnancy test and she called everybody very early. very early the next morning. >> soon enough, the petersons learned they were having a boy and readied the nursery and decided to name him conor. laci was eight months pregnant by christmas. the last christmas before conor was due. >> you were supposed to have a christmas eve dinner?
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>> yes. she was having christmas day. i was having christmas eve. that is when he called. close to 6:15 he called and asked if laci was with me. i said she is not here. he said well, she is missing. >> that was the beginning. christmas eve, 2002. laci peterson with her bright smile was nowhere to be found. coming up, the missing mom becomes national news. >> there is a $500,000 reward. >> we thought somebody kidnapped her. >> i was absolutely panicked. >> the first clues? her dog draggings it leash, the neighbors robbed, husband asking for help. >> did he seem frantic or worried? >> little bit. >> when dateline continues. when dateline continues czema.
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quickly gripped the nation. was it her smile? it was because it happened christmas eve. subject for a p. h. d. these us now. at the beginning it was like 1,000 other such cases, a stomach flipping phone call. she is missing. ive has a child missing for 10mins something may have happened here it is so powerful that it takes over everything. >> it does. it does. she remembers saying check with the neighbors. call laci's friends. >> we all got a call. i said no. she is like she is missing. >> did he seem frantic or worried? >> little bit. >> worried enough to ask for their help.
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sharon -- long time boyfriend called the cops. golfing, on a cold christmas eve? odd but okay. he came home to find the dog in the yard wearing a leash. >> because of the leash on the dog. >> yes. we walked together in the park before. i was running around. i was looking at trash cans. i was screaming her name. they spent the early hours looking for missing posters. >> we had flyers and tape and everything. >> put make up on. that was the last thing. >> yeah. >> didn't have christmas. >> yeah. that is where i am going to be.
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>> pretty soon the whole town seemed to be looking for laci peterson. >> please if there's anyone out there help bring her home. >> the police were searching too. full out how long did the search go on? >> all night and then all the next day. case watched as searchers scoured the area. they were everywhere here, right. >> yeah.
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they did a grid search meaning they would have been in eye contact and walked the whole area. >> his partner at the time had a feeling from the start. laci peterson missing was not going to end well. >> she didn't leave an at risk lifestyle. >> we were going to find her. i thought somebody kidnapped her. that is what i thought. >> here is lori, renee and stacey. in january 2003. >> there is a $500,000 reward you know for her and the baby's safe return. just take that. take the money. give us laci back. >> in the first day an exhausted sharon, ex-husband laci's father dennis beside her went on tv and pleaded with a kidnapper. >> i would like to send a message out there that whoever has her please, please, please let her go.
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>> early on there were clues the cops uncovered that made kidnapping seemed plausible. remember the couple's dog with the leash attached. scott found it in the backyard a neighbor said she saw the peterson's dog wandering the streets earlier that day. maybe laci was kidnapped walking the dog. just about the time laci disappeared there was a burglary across the street. did she witness a crime? did burglars take her? the police wanted to know. >> a reward for information for the identity of the person responsible for the burglary. >> didn't take long. soon enough one of them showed up in a tv interview.
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>> police agreed. no connection to laci. they would have kept digging. >> we are looking at the parolees. people with history of abductions, kidnappings. we had some. we were clearing those guys. we were interviewing them and verifying the alibis. >> they were not saying that homicide detectives had other suspicions. >> we are certainly looking at scott first, scott is the closest to laci. >> that is behind the scenes. in front of the camera the official police statements were circumspe circumspect. >> we have to understand what the other possibilities are. the possibilities are that she could be, you know, a victim of foul play.
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>> those closest to laci were having trouble grappling with the whole idea of foul play. even sharon told us impossible. >> they have no doubt he has nothing to do with her disappearance. >> it is a powerful thing, true belief. when it comes crashing down, my, my, my. coming up, scott peterson down at the station, a rare look at his interrogation. >> was he okay with that? was there any hesitation? >> he agreed. >> didn't ask for an attorney? >> no. didn't ask for an attorney. >> was he okay with that? was there any hesitation? >> he agreed. >> didn't ask for an attorney? >> no. didn't ask for an attorney. >> well, like that's a morning decision. >> is there something fishy about his story?
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laci peterson story to go wide. that face was smiling out of magazines and television screens nationwide. friends and family desperate to get the story out talked to anyone, everyone.
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one person seemed to stay in the background, scott. grieving in private his parents told us back in 2003. >> he is devastated. >> he would not be a good spokesman. >> there was one camera scott couldn't shy away from. you can watch scott, hear his words. does he seem like a worried, frantic husband? you will see. >> tell me about the morning. >> okay. i don't know what time we got up.
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probably laci got up and went and i assume she had breakfast. >> didn't ask for an attorney. i wasn't planning on arresting him. i don't have to do that. i know whatever he told me i am taking him home. don't have to talk to me if you don't want to. >> and then she was going to the store to buy christmas morning breakfast. and that was going to be an involved prep. so that was her afternoon, prepping the breakfast and she was going to make cookies for tonight. >> he was struck by how passive scott was, even as he revealed he didn't go golfing. >> when did you realize you were going to go fishing? >> well like that's a morning decision. >> morning decision go play golf at the club or go fishing. >> okay. >> seemed too cold to go play golf at the club. >> he said he drove to his warehouse office a few miles
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away. >> you drove over to the shop. what did you do there? >> i assembled my mortiser, the woodworking tool. >> yeah. >> i just got that and so i assembled it. checked my e-mail. sent one e-mail. hooked the boat up and went. >> scott said he drove to the marina 90 miles away, parked his car and put it in the water. >> did you go very far? >> well, a couple of miles. i went north. found like a little island kind
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of deal there. island. had a bunch of trash on it. a big sign that said no landing. it looked like broken piers around it. i assumed it would be a decent shallow area. >> did you troll? >> little bit. lot of the reason i went was just to get that boat in the water. >> details that sounded plausible enough, sept except t detective. >> me and the officers. they were fisherman too. his pole is one you would use in a stream. his lures are jigs you would use in the delta. he didn't know what he was fishing for or what bait he was using and no gear that was meant to be fishing in the bay. >> he wondered why scott bought a fishing license days before if he didn't know he was going
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to fish that day. >> there is a receipt dated december 20th when he bought his license. >> he said it was a last minute decision. that day. >> that didn't jibe. >> that doesn't jibe. >> the detective was skeptical of scott's fishing story. why would you go 90 miles if all you are doing is that you want to try out the new boat and you live in modesto. i can tell you 20 places within 25 miles of here you can put the boat in the water and try to find it out. >> scott said he had proof, a parking receipt from the arena. here is my receipt to prove it was there. i fished that marina a lot of times. i got four or five on my dash board right now. i don't know what made him decide i will put it in my pocket in case i need it later. but he was ready and prepared. >> scott said that the fish were not biting that afternoon and headed back to modesto and got home around 4:30 where he found the dog with the leash attached, unlocked backdoor and no laci. >> took the dogs out. >> yeah. >> put them on the counter. he was calm. calm, matter of fact. helpful. >> were you calling for laci?
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>> of course. >> but she went home. >> assumed she was at her moms. >> then you called over to her moms. had they heard from her? >> no. >> he answers the questions but does not do more than that, right? is that fair to say? >> he has got an answer. he does not elaborate or get emotional. >> the investigators thought at the time was not necessarily a good thing. >> he told me that is concerning. i get home. the car is there. the dog is running around the leash. the door is unlocked. her purse is here. and that is really concerning me. but let me take all of my clothes off and wash them and eat pizza and take a shower before i even try to figure out
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what is going on here. that is concerning. that was concerning to me. >> and then the detective asked the question that soon everyone would be asking. >> so what you are telling me, scott, you have no idea of where laci is. >> people in that situation, you know, they are going to have a lot of questions for you. are you guys doing this. why don't you do this. we got it from sharon and ron and laci's friends. everybody had an interest in trying to get us to go faster. >> everybody that is but scott. now why, they wondered, would that be. why, they wondered, would that be. coming up. >> hey beautiful, i just left you a message at home. >> i listened to that he was leaving this recording for us to hear.
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>> scott, under scrutiny. >> i was afraid to say it out loud, had he been involved in her disappearance. >> when dateline continues. ooh, i can't wait to get you home! ooh! i'm gonna eat you up when you get home. oh my goodness. oh yeah. i can't wait. i'm just gonna bite you! oh, baby. that looks amazing! marco's. pizza lovers get it.
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according to north korea, it's carrying out it forth missile launch after a month. it comes after the biden admission impose new sanctions. and an update that lasted nearly 12 hours at the dallas area synagogue, the fbi identified the suspect as a british citizen. in the senior law enforcement tells nbc news, the suspect two teenage sons were detained in england. now back to dateline. a week after laci peterson disappeared they had a vigil.
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everyone coming together and praying makes you feel--candles and prayers and tears. though much of modesto was here, not a single person understood, not yet and not for a while why the gathering would become a defining moment. it looked like he might have shed a tear or two, he seemed to be avoiding laci's family and friends. what about the vigil. >> he was on the phone. >> sharon would not know for a long time the truth about scott's phone call that night. it was that night sharon first allowed her mind to go to that very dark place. >> it was new year's eve when i started to go back and forth. i thought could he be involved
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with her disappearance. >> sharon was a frantic mess and she looked at him and he just seemed so detached somehow. >> never once did he say my god, where is laci. i hope she is okay. >> you were feeling that panic. even as you talk about it. >> yes. >> he didn't have that. >> he didn't have it. i made out a list of did or didn't here. >> she didn't want to believe it and didn't want to go there so she didn't. but the detectives were trained to go there and they turned over everything scott said did and didn't do and wondered why. a fake feeling from the beginning, like the voicemail he left laci.
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>> hey beautiful, i just left you a message at home. >> i thought no. this does not sound right. married five years. pregnant. talking to her like he is on their third date. the tone to it that he was leaving the recording for us to hear so that he would appear to us as a devoted husband and not somebody involved in foul play. >> ofcourse, it could be he was just a romantic guy. >> and there was this, under the circumstances the day laci disappeared why was he obsessively fastidius when they searched the pickup truck. >> he was worried about the wrong things. i open the door and it bangs into the land rover. i will hold this or move my truck. i wrote it in my police >>
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these were not hard facts of evidence, just a rising death of suspicion like when did scott get a boat. >> he said he had taken his boat out. he did have a boat. >> scott said he knew about the boat. how could it be that sharon had no idea and that he recently bought a used 14-foot game fisher. i treated him like a husband. the husband of the missing person. but i had suspicions. i asked him to take me to the boat. >> late the first night the detective and scott went to scott's warehouse where he kept his boat. >> you came here that night. >> that night. >> what did he tell you when
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you came here? and you wanted tooo to the detectives it all smelled bad, so they did the things that detectives do. they got a wiretap andhe watched him constantly. sometimes he noticed he watched them too. i look at my side view mirror. >> it was just odd as this was when searchers in the bay found something.
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>> sonar detected an object underwater that could be a body. >> sharon froze, terrified. she still hoped laci you was alive. listen to this recording. you can hear sharon's relief when she called to tell it wasn't laci. >> scott this is mom. it was a boat anchor. we knew it wasn't laci. i just want you to know. >> that is scott whistling in the background. he seems relieved too. it was more felt lucky that wasn't her, suggesting to us that we were looking in the right spot. >> he seemed such a boy scout. no history of being abusive. they stewed in their suspicion, aware they had nothing on him. >> i don't think he had a
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traffic ticket. he was really the guy you wanted to marry your sister. we were waiting to see he wasn't a perfect guy. >> in one remarkable moment, they get that and more because of her. coming up, he was single and looking for the one. >> enter amber. >> did you think about wait a minute, i could make a life with this man? >> i did. when dateline continues. when dateline continues. blue diamond almond breeze. ♪♪ for skin that never holds you back. don't settle for silver. #1 for diabetic dry skin
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months before laci peterson disappeared. 100 miles away in fresno, california. a woman named amber frye got a phone call about a woman about a guy. >> i was doing really well getting my career started in massage therapy, single mother. i was told about a great guy my friend wanted me to meet. >> set you up on a date. >> a blind date at first. i said okay.
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i wonder who she sees as a good fit for me. >> she said he had a good sense of humor, good looking. single and looking for the one. soul mate. >> serious about this. >> yeah. his name, scott peterson. it was late november when they met in person and it was electric. >> we really had a great first date. really good. >> sometimes you meet somebody easy to talk to you feel as though there's no wall between you two. >> right. >> it was like that? >> yeah. >> he was immediately attracted to you and you to him? >> we chuckled about being pleasantly surprised.
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i would say that there was a mutual attraction. >> what did he tell you about himself? >> on the first date he told me about his family and the plans that he had upcoming, like thanksgiving and fishing trips and going to maine with his family in a cabin. he was planning go to europe with some friends. >> he wooed her fast with strawberries and champagne. >> it was early, bright and exciting. >> absolutely. >> eager to bond with amber's little girl. >> he was really sweet with her. she was excited. we planned a picnic and a little hike. she held both hands and was comfortable. >> must have been sweet. >> it was. >> he bought them gifts, made dinner, considerate, caring. >> driving to the gym to do my weekly five-minute workout. see how you are doing. i am go to give you a call tomorrow. bye. >> he was always complementing
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like you leave the best messages. scott was married and they were readying a nursery for her first born. yet something wasn't sitting right with her she thought. why would he call her. was there so often the sound of running water in the background as if he was masking especially south >> it was odd. the sound of their conversation. why are you talking to me in the shower. he blew it off. >> i could hear he was worried or something was going on. >> scott was contrite and said that he had a confoegz maession make.
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the in fact he had lost his wife. this would be the first holidays without her. >> that's the expression he used? having lost my wife? >> yes. and he was crying, and just, you know, very emotional. >> it was a tender moment for amber. and she felt compassion for him. >> i thought maybe she died of cancer, or in an accident, because his words were obviously something recent, or more recent. >> did you? ask >> i didn't ask. i didn't want to pry. he was so emotional. >> with that figure out of his chest, scott gave her a new cell phone number where she could reach him when he took a long trip to europe over christmas. that -- is >> if you still want to talk to me after -- >> after i told you?
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this >> right. so i was like yes of course. >> did you start to think about, wait a minute, i could actually have a life with this man? >> i did. >> and yet even hear december 14th, as they got ready for a christmas party with amber's friends. the little beast of dow was warming its way into her mind. >> i was starting to feel the woman's intuition, that something wasn't right. >> really? >> yes. >> while he was in europe, he told her she should write a mighty post office box in modesto. but he had told her he lived in sacramento, so why modesto? why these are questions she could not answer? she had a cop friend, she called him, could he checkup for scott peterson and sacramento. >> a few days later finn called back. >> he said he found an article, and that he was going to print it and send it to me. >> that was december 29th, scott had left for europe two
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days earlier, or so he said. then amber read the article. >> i was in disbelief of what i'm reading, because it sounds like him, fertilizer salzman, modesto, i don't think there was a full picture of him, but that his truck was in this article. >> so where these words. pregnant and missing. >> i need this confirmed? i don't want to believe what i just read. >> it could turn your world upside down, couldn't? >> absolutely. >> and that's when she called the police. >> i reached a dispatcher, and they said i have been dating this person, i just want to know if this is the same person. she said okay. okay it is, or okay why? they gave me his birthday, his full name, she says okay. >> i say. yes >> yes, amber and scott
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peterson, and the scott peterson with the missing wife or one in the same. >> i remember crying. i don't remember for how long i was shaking, the adrenaline, i was in shock. >> amber thought maybe she had met the one, was in the middle of something terrible. coming up. >> we wanted to start recording -- >> hush conversations, hidden recordings. amber was undercover. >> as soon as i plug in her -- rush button and black button. >> who called? >> we'll be in paris tomorrow. i'm fine to normandy right, now -- >> i was shaking unconvinced nervous and scared. >> when dateline continues. scared scared >> i'll go after that. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin
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police department, scrambling to manage that flood of tips about leafy peterson, amber's phone call was a barely defendable ruffle. did they call you back? readily >> no. >> so the next day she called again. and looking over the dispatches shoulder at just the right moment, was detective burkini. >> i just happen to be standing, and she was typing in, i could see the name amber fry she said scott peterson's my boyfriend. >> you're seeing? all >> this i'm seeing all. this is that are you talking? her she said yeah. so isa let me talk to. her >> before long to detectives were in fresno listening in person to the story of their core chairs. >> it was almost like a script writer was writing this very talented romance. >> i basically told him our whole relationship that we had been having. our conversation was currently,
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at the moment. >> and he was over in europe? somewhere >> right. and i think they too were just a little in the small leaf, shaking their head. now he is definitely in modesto. >> scott had been lying the whole, time elaborately. he even called her from a payphone at the airport to say goodbye when he left for europe, so she would see the color i.d.. but if ember had it known whisk really was, she sure knew a lot. >> she had a mental recall that was punctuated with wine corks and all sorts of memorabilia that she would say from their romance. >> so then it detectives asked, could she help with the investigation? >> so at that point i said whatever was needed i would cooperate with them. it wasn't about me at that point. there was a missing pregnant woman. i had been having a relationship with her husband, unknowingly, he was married. >> we wanted to start recording
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calls. >> she agreed. so they went out and buy a portable recorder. what do you know, as soon as i plug in her -- red button and black button. the phone rang. >> he called. >> oh boy. >> -- harry there? i can barely hear you. >> and their expression, they were just like i can't believe he's calling you right now. >> hail being passed, tomorrow i'm flying to normandy right now, and hopefully -- >> i was shaking, and controlling, my fingers were just sweaty mess. i was fumbling because i was so nervous and scared. so it began. for the next eight days, scott peterson pretended he was traveling in europe. amber fry pretending she was still his girlfriend.
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the cops? they kept looking. bringing dogs, divers, lacey's friends held -- all the wild amber secretly recorded her conversations with scott. how >> i was shaking, and trying to catch my breath, come down, there was just too much nerves there. and i would pay's back and forth. one of those calls, of course she didn't know that the time, was going to be notorious. >> new year's eve. >> that was the big? one >> yeah. >> coming up. >> first of all i met scott beater's in november 20th 2002. revealing the truth of the world. amber -- firestorm. >> we believe that the time was best to get her up there. it was like exposing your own bomb. >> i was introduced to him, i was told he was unmarried. scott told me he was not
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married. we did have a romantic relationship. >> i had a panic attack. i could not breathe. i could not catch my breath. >> when dateline continues. breath. breath. >> because dupixent targets a root cause of eczema, it helps heal your skin from within, keeping you one step ahead of it. and for kids ages 6 and up, that means clearer skin, and noticeably less itch. hide my skin? not me. by helping to control eczema with dupixent, you can change how their skin looks and feels. and that's the kind of change you notice. hide my skin? not me. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes, or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines, don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor.
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laci peterson is missing. >> i was absolutely panicked. >> i thought somebody kidnapped her. >> her husband is playing it cool. >> he was steve mcqueen cool. >> but the woman he's been secretly seeing has turned the tables. >> i was shaking uncontrollably. >> soon, a discovery and an arrest. and then prosecutors speak out in a rare television interview. >> there's something underneath the surface that is truly evil.
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>> amber frey had been working with detectives, covertly recording her conversations with scott peterson. in this one, scott told amber he was calling from a continent away, having a ball in paris. of course, it was a big lie. >> amber, if you can hear me -- >> i know, i can hear you! i wish you could hear me. >> i'm near the eiffel tower. it's unreal. the crowd, it's huge. >> reporter: in fact, the crowd was huge. it just wasn't in paris. it was in modesto. and they weren't celebrating. scott called amber from the vigil for laci, the one where he made himself scarce while sharon and laci's friends pleaded for help. and scott called amber, inventing fine details of his trip, like jogging on the cobblestones of europe. >> i think i should just run on the street because these cobblestones are slippery. >> he worked out the time
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difference for his phone calls. >> if you go to bed at 9:00, that's 6:00 my time. >> and he kept on wooing her, unaware of who was listening. >> did i ever tell you how wonderful you are? that's pretty easy to do. how thoughtful you are, and amazing. you know, i always call you and i tell you you're special, and that's just not a big -- >> all very interesting, but -- what were you hoping for from those recorded conversations that you didn't get? >> well, of course, ideally, i was hoping that he would say, "no, i murdered my wife, i dumped her in the bay and let's run off to europe, " but that wasn't going to happen. >> so detectives went right after him. they asked scott to come down to the police department again, and without telling him where he got it, they showed him a fax of a photo of himself with amber frey at the christmas party. >> and of course, he lies when he's confronted.
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>> prosecutor. -- >> he sees the picture of him and amber and says "that's not me. " >> was it clearly him? >> it was. >> if scott suspected the detectives had somehow found out about amber, he didn't let on, and he kept calling her and she kept recording. but he started testing her with questions. >> did you see the news on paris? >> no, i didn't, actually. >> there's a bomb that exploded. >> and i was like, uh, what bombing? there was another time he had asked if i had seen the article on the monarch butterflies that are in pismo, and i said, no. i gathered right away he was asking because these were, in fact, something that was in the paper, possibly. >> right. >> if i was looking at the news. >> to find out, in other words, if she knew about laci. and then, on january 6th, 13 days after laci disappeared, scott told amber himself.
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>> you haven't been watching the news, obviously. >> no. >> i have not been traveling during the last couple weeks. my -- i've -- i've lied to you, that i've been traveling. >> okay. >> the girl i'm married to, her name is laci. >> mm-hmm. >> she disappeared just before christmas. >> mm-hmm. >> the past two weeks, i've been in modesto with her family and mine, searching for her. >> okay. >> she just disappeared, and no one knows. >> scott had no idea, of course, that amber happened to be in the police station when he offered that big admission, or that amber's responding question was a huge deal to both her and the cops. >> you came to me early in
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december and told me that you had lost your wife. what was that about? >> she -- i mean, she's alive. >> what? >> she's alive. >> she's alive? where? >> in modesto. >> and you came and told me this elaborate lie about her missing and this tragedy and that this would be the first holidays without her? >> yeah, i never said -- amber -- >> yes? >> i never -- god, i don't want to fight with you. um, you know that i -- i never said tragedy or missing -- >> oh, yes, you said you lost your wife. >> no, that, that -- yes. >> obviously, without me saying much, but we were -- >> i said that i lost my wife. >> yes, you did. >> i did. and yes -- >> how do you lose her then, before she was lost? explain that. >> there are different kinds of
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loss, amber. >> different kinds of loss? now, what did that mean? well, investigators built their case against scott. laci's family was in a world of pain. it was january of 2003, and sharon rocha was still gripping on to a slipping remnant of hope that her laci was still alive, was barely hanging on. the days soon after that new year's eve vigil, when scott walked into the house. >> and i asked him, "how are you doing? " and he said, "you know, i'm doing okay. " and i just remember, it was almost like i was just pulling back from him, thinking, you're doing okay? what do you mean you're doing okay? >> sharon definitely wasn't doing okay. the cops, moving forward incrementally, needed more. >> police looking for laci peterson in modesto, california, want to verify her husband's alibi. >> modesto pd put out a bulletin.
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had anyone seen this truck, this boat, on christmas eve? they expanded their ground search to the foothills, the reservoirs, even mine shafts. and by mid-january, police decided they needed to tell sharon about scott's affair. >> i said, hey, we've got some information we've got to let you know about on this, and the best thing we can do is just give it to you. >> they showed her the photo at amber's christmas party, the one scott said wasn't him. >> i literally thought i was going to throw up. i stood up real fast, because i wanted to get out of there. i wanted to get away from them. i didn't want to hear what they were saying. >> what mother would? >> i just remember my stomach just turning, and i just, saying, just crying. he didn't have to kill her. >> that changed everything you had ever thought about him. >> it did. >> detective buehler had told sharon about amber because rumors were in the air, the media was sniffing about and getting close. >> i get to the office.
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the reporter was right there. >> oh, boy. >> yeah. >> january 24th. local news showed up at amber's workplace. national tabloids were not far behind. >> did you talk to them? >> no. i refused to talk to anybody. >> reporter: trapped in her office, she called detective buehler. that's when the modesto pd decided that, if amber's story was going to break anyway, they'd break it on their terms. >> we believed at the time it was probably best to get her up there, almost like exploding your own bomb. >> he sent two colleagues to fetch her with a statement all prepared. >> we were speeding back, in a sense, getting there. and you know, having this statement written out, you know, trying to read it a few times so it's not too foreign. >> as they drove to modesto, headquarters gathered the media. big news a coming. >> we are waiting for modesto police to come out any moment and speak on developments in the laci peterson investigation. >> and this is the moment when
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amber frey burst like a deer in headlights onto the public stage. >> okay, first of all, i met scott peterson november 20th, 2002. i was introduced to him. i wasold he was unmared. scott told me he was not married. we did have a romantic relationship. >> i had a panic attack. i couldn't breathe. i literally could not catch my breath. >> when i discovered he was involved in the disappearance -- or the laci peterson disappearance case, i immediately contacted the modesto police department. >> she spoke for just over a minute. >> i am very sorry for laci's family and the pain that this has caused them, and i pray for her safe return as well. >> and now everyone knew. and scott knew everyone knew. so, did he stop contacting amber frey? no! listen to this.
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>> i'm calling to say how brave you are. i'm really glad that you -- you did that. >> it wasn't a matter of choice. >> what's that? >> it really wasn't a matter of choice. they were staked out at my work all day. >> i know, but still, it's incredibly brave. it just shows what amazing character you have. >> scott called to congratulate her, to thank her. very strange. the police were thanking amber, too. now they had new clues, like the day scott told amber he lost his wife. it was the very same day he had bought the boat. coincidence? no, thought the police. had to be evidence of premeditation. the very existence of amber frey changed everything and revealed that many little beasts of doubt had been churning about in the minds of even scott's die-hard supporters. >> after amber came forward, that's when they started to
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open up about the things that they had been kind of hiding and holding back. >> people remembered things, like how scott once told someone he was hoping for infertility, that he seemed uncomfortable holding babies, that he didn't want to touch laci's pregnant stomach, that he complained he was having a mid-life crisis at age 30. now when people thought about his story that laci walked her dog, they remembered she had been too tired to do that, and they remembered, too, the peculiar way he acted the night laci disappeared. >> we were standing in the driveway. i asked if he had called his parents. he said no. i was trying to have a conversation with him and he continued to just turn away from me. he would never look me in the eye. i had to keep following him around to have visual contact with him. >> because scott peterson had something to hide. coming up -- >> i had a romantic relationship that was inappropriate. >> scott peterson goes public.
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and only focus is to bring her home to us. i love my daughter so much. i miss her every minute of every day. >> on the same day the amber fry told the world about her relationship with scott -- >> scott told me he was not. married >> lacey's mother stood before the camera to, it was exactly a month since lacey disappeared. >> i miss her. i miss her smile, her, laughter her sense of humor, and i miss everything about her. >> sharon, who kept trying to keep hope alive, found it slipping away. >> someone has taken all of this away from me, and everyone else who loves her. >> any thought that scott had nothing to do with, gone too. you've though sharon would not
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mention by name. >> i know that someone knows where they see, is and i plead with, you, please, please, please let her come home to us. >> unbeknownst to them, scott was thinking about going public to. he discussed it with, who else, amber. >> i am going to speak to the press. in the coming weeks. >> you have a day? >> i'm. well. i'm debating when it should be. tuesday is the state of the union address. so that will take up a lot of time. >> well. >> i want some coverage. >> he got it. a few days after his affair with amber was revealed, scott talked about on nbc. >> obviously as i had a romantic relationship that was an appropriate, and unfair to a lot of people. >> now many people who knew,
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scott and love scott, no longer believed a word he said. for the police who never believed him, amber was just one part of an intricate and entirely circumstantial case against scott. it relied on the smallest of details strands of evidence that tried to weave into a rope to hang scott another strands scott sudden desire to sell his and lacey's home just weeks after she went missing. >> he said i think we should get the house up on the market, and i said this is not the time to be discussing this. he did zelensky's car, another strand. and then there was the summit dust. >> a lot of people use concrete anchors for a small boats. it looked like five of these coffee can anchors had been made there. >> but only this one anchor was found. >> it was clear there was more
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than one. where? those nobody knows. >> where the other four used to weigh down lacey's body? although scott said going for soon was a last-minute discussion, there were c charts, and maps of the berkley marina on his computer from early december. scott told people he spent time in his warehouse office the daily she disappeared. they couldn't help but notice how secluded the place was. >> this is very isolated back here, especially on christmas eve. >> if you wanted to get away with something, this is a place you can do? >> yeah. >> like movie body into the boat thought detective. >> have a window here in the front know, that the screen is a jar. >> so police gathered the strands, spun the warp, and everything that happened happened with a lot of people watching. >> where the scott peterson stand in all of this? >> he's not been eliminated
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from an investigation, nor has he been identified as a suspect. >> not identified as a suspect, not officially. yet, clearly, the only person of interest for the cops and the media. >> why have you got in the bag there? >> evidence. >> evidence? >> and sharon kept grappling with the depression truths that she just didn't want to believe. >> i felt that i shouldn't have felt her leave this earth. i brought her into this world, i should have felt when she left. i would have known if she was gone in. so at that time, i still had hope that she was coming home. >> it's a strange and powerful thing, though, isn't it? >> it is. >> you bring birth to a person. you bring them up, you feed, them take care, of them and -- >> and we are very, very, very close. >> yes. >> and? scott >> he soon faded from public view.
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and single -- member said to stop calling her. >> i think -- everything that has happened in the last 50 plus days for myself and my family, and you, and everything that's going on right now, i think it would be best if you and i didn't talk anymore until there is a resolution in this -- >> yes i agree with that. >> good. >> you're right. >> and everyone just waited until the cdc finally revealed why everybody had been waiting for. coming up -- >> i felt something that day. i just knew. >> a devastating discovery and a ride into danger. >> this was completely off the charts. nobody has ever done it this way. >> when dateline continues. >>reat mental illness.
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here's what's happening. the system already slammed the southeast leaving over 100,000 customers without power. day one of the australian open has begun, but without the world number one men's tennis player. the unvaccinated novak djokovic was deported after australia canceled his visa on public interest grounds. djokovic arrived into via early monday morning. now back to dateline. april 13th, 2003. it was a cool day in northern california. sharon rocha was hiding from the world. >> it was one of those days. i just buried myself on the couch with a blanket over my head. >> she had so locked herself away that day that friends had to come to her house to tell her there was news. >> they're knocking on my back door, on the slider in the backyard. >> it had been nearly four months since laci disappeared, yet, somehow, sharon felt more
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bad news was coming. earlier that morning, when the tides were low, the body of a baby had been found on the shoreline north of berkeley. the next day, another body, a torso, badly decomposed, was found nearby. >> contra costa county coroner has arrived at the scene and has now recovered the remains of the victim. we're at this time letting people know that we believe the gender of the victim is female. >> but even without positive identification, everyone knew, even sharon, who, despite everything, kept trying to hold onto a shred of hope that she'd wake from a nightmare. from scott, there was not a peep. >> the fact that he didn't pick up the phone and call anybody to find out if that was his wife and his baby left no doubt in my mind.
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>> her daughter was dead. her grandson would never be born. detective john buehler had known that for a while, and now he was nearly ready to arrest scott, just not quite. >> we were going to wait to serve the warrant until after the dna results were released to confirm the bodies were laci and conner. >> by that april, scott peterson was living in san diego, near his parents. so, tick, tick, tick. detectives waited for lab results. police kept an eye on scott. >> they had the surveillance going on him for quite some time before that. >> then, april 18th, 2003, 7:00 a. m. the lab results were still pending when scott peterson decided to play cat and mouse with whomever was after him. >> he's a pretty good driver, or at least he was. he knew we were behind him. >> scott started driving erratically, very fast. >> we were trying to keep this rolling surveillance on him. we had a helicopter for part of the time. >> he stopped and started. >> he'd cross over three lanes of traffic and take an exit ramp. and of course, we couldn't do that, we'd end up missing him.
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>> driving evasively at times, giving one cop the finger. how long did he lead you on this chase? >> oh, gosh, this was -- seemed like it might have been a couple hours or so, maybe longer. >> scott, with police trailing, traveled 160 miles that morning until law enforcement decided it was just too dangerous. >> we have to arrest him. they put the lights on him and he pulled off into the entrance to torrey pines golf course. and they made contact with him as we pulled up, came out of the car, put the handcuffs onhyster. typical scott in all his controlled demeanor. >> what they found in the car with scott was fascinating. camping gear, four cell phones, his sister's credit card, his brother's driver's license, and cash. >> almost $15,000 in cash. >> in cash. >> he also looked different,
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way different, by intent, clearly. when you arrested him, did he express anything that would suggest he understood that that was it, he was going away? >> i went to search his car. he said, "john, can you tell me if those bodies were my wife and son? " and i just told him, scott, you already know the answer to that. >> as they drove north of modesto with their prisoner in the back seat, buehler got confirmation that the dna was in. the bodies were conner and laci. they told scott. >> now, he's wearing sunglasses at the time. i look and he doesn't make hardly any reaction whatsoever. >> and just a few minutes later, they stopped by a roadside burger place to get something to eat. given the news he'd just received, buehler assumes scott wouldn't have much of an appetite. he was wrong. >> and he goes, i'll have a double-double with cheese, a small fry, and a vanilla shake. like we were coming back from
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fishing. >> cold? that's what buehler thought. >> i've run into people that had grief before, many, many times, and this was completely off the charts. nobody's ever reacted this way, in my presence, when it came to something like that. >> when they got back to modesto, scott was booked into jail. it seemed like the end of the road for scott peterson. but the circus wasn't leaving. it was just moving up the road a bit. coming up -- >> i'm innocent. >> he can be very smooth, but there's something underneath the surface. >> prosecutors speak out in an in-depth television interview. >> he wanted a different life. >> years later, they share their story, when "dateline" continues. when they're sick, they get comfortable anywhere and spread germs everywhere. wherever they rest protection nothing kills more viruses, including the covid-19 virus,
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>> as the case against scott peterson slowly made its way from arrest to trial, what really happened to laci peterson became a kind of televised courtroom theater. >> the defense is asking that the jury be sequestered for up to five months. >> the cast included legal celebrities like defense attorney mark geragos, who signed on to defend scott peterson. >> scott looks forward to finding out who did this to his wife and to his child, conner. >> and women's advocate -- >> thank you for coming today. i'm attorney gloria allred. to my right is amber frey. >> -- gloria allred, who erected a protective wall around the story's wild card, amber frey. >> amber was not going to be doing any interviews during the course of the case, even though so many people wanted to interview her. >> sure, yeah. wasn't she offered immense amounts of money to do covers and things like that? >> there were many offers to amber, if she would only provide an interview. but she needed to protect her testimony for the actual case.
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>> but altogether missing in the legal cacophony were the prosecutor prosecutors. dave harris -- this was their first in-depth interview about the peterson case. during the trial, they often had to bite their tongues. >> your radio would go off in the morning, the radio alarm, and the little news blurb that you would hear on the pop radio station, whatever, would reference the case. they could say whatever they wanted, right? and it wasn't always necessarily true. >> good morning, your honor. >> good morning. >> in court, geragos wanted a change of venue, though just 90 miles or so from modesto, did anyone not know about the peterson case? >> how is he feeling about the move? >> he just wants the trial to take place so that people will be able to see what really took place. >> scott's mom assured reporters her son was innocent, but she couldn't have been very happy when everyone came to the courthouse and saw a local
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billboard a local radio station bought right across the street. man or monster? what'd you think when you saw that? >> well, that's when we were about to start jury selection. >> first day of jury selection. >> so, i think we were worried we were going to have another change of venue. >> but here it stayed. june 1st, 2004, a year and a half after laci peterson vanished, her husband, scott, went on trial for her murder. and right off the bat, the prosecution told the jury about scott and amber. he winced as they showed these photos of the two of them from the night of the party, the same photos that helped him get caught. and then they showed the jury this picture of laci, same night, different party. she went alone. >> the reason for the murder was he didn't want to be married anymore. he didn't want to have a child. he wanted a different life. and amber was just a symptom of that. he didn't want what he had. >> and he wanted to be rid of what he had. >> he did. >> one way or another. >> mm-hmm.
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>> laci and conner were responsibilities, and he didn't want that. >> he doesn't care about anyone but himself. he can be very smooth, but there's something underneath the surface that is truly evil. >> so, said the prosecutors, scott strangled or suffocated laci on christmas eve early in the morning, or possibly the night before. and then after that, after he had done that -- >> dragged her from the bedroom out to the carport. pickup truck backed into the carpo carport. take her out the side door, wrapped up, most likely, load her into the bed of the truck, drive over to the warehouse, move her to the boat, cover the boat. >> then, after sending an email and putting together a woodworking tool, law enforcement believed, he headed to the bay. but evidence of murder? that was all circumstantial. they had no incriminating dna, minimal forensics, just all those little strands.
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and in fact, it didn't always go well for the prosecution. as geragos worked to keep them off balance. >> we would try and present witnesses in a chronological order, in a way that made sense to our theory of the case, and they were very good at disrupting that and saying, we're not ready for that witness or -- >> just trying to throw a monkey wrench into your smooth telling of the story. >> yeah. >> if it happened once, maybe it was just coincidence. if it happened every single week, at some point in time, it's a plan. >> it got worse for the prosecution. geragos, who believed the modesto pd had it out for his client, tried to make it look like alboro keenie had omitted evidence. he asked him on the stand, did you omit evidence about scott visiting the warehouse october 23rd? >> the answer was, "i did. " then, okay, we're done for the day. and it's like, you know, can i answer or --
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>> and that was a very good point for him to make because it would create the impression that, in fact, laci did know about the boat, as scott said she did, and it lent credibility to the rest of the story as a result. >> well, maybe, maybe not. but he could have got the whole story. >> of course, the whole story wasn't what the defense attorney wanted, that the information was in another cop's report, that nothing had been hidden. but what did the jury think? what was your sense of how well that prosecution was going? >> i was a bit concerned. i felt that their burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt had not yet been met. >> but the big change, the sea change, was the day she walked in. >> walking in the courtroom, you could hear body shifting towards the door. a lot of pressure. >> as scott watched, amber frey told the jury everything from strawberries and champagne on their first date to his tearful
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confession of losing his wife weeks before she went missing. >> how did you lose her then, before she was lost? explain that. >> there are different kinds of loss, amber. >> and all those phone calls were played for the jury. >> the jury could hear his words -- of course, not his words under oath, but his words on the phone call -- to amber and how he lied and lied and lied, and even lied about lying. >> mark geragos did what he could. he went after amber repeatedly, questioned her about how much she had to drink on her dates with scott and about how often she and scott had sex and how soon. did the defense rattle you? >> no. he tried. >> amber didn't buckle, and the prosecution hit its stride. an expert told the jury, the baby died between december 23rd and december 25th. another expert told the jury that laci's decomposition was consistent with three to six months in the water. and a search dog handler
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testified her dog picked up laci's scent at the berkeley marina. and, said the prosecutors, it was obvious scott peterson knew laci and conner were gone for good. he had even turned conner's nursery into a storage room. >> put office furniture and pillows and a locking device from a car in there. scott wasn't expecting conner to ever come home. >> coming up -- a cheater, a liar, but a killer? i mean, really, who else could have done it. >> i'm glad you asked that question. >> when "dateline" continues. when "dateline" continues ♪♪ and even when things go a bit wrong, we've got your back.
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defense got its chance to disprove the prosecution theory. we wanted to talk to attorney mark geragos about the trial. he didn't respond to our
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request. we wanted to talk to scott peterson, but he wasn't interested. turned us down, said his family, because he didn't like my coverage of the case back in 2003. scott's frantic story, simple, yet utterly baffling was this. his family still insists he's an innocent man, and we wanted to hear that from them. they turned us down, too, and suggested we talk to a retired journalist named richard cole, who shares their point of view and said the prosecution theory of the case makes no sense. >> because it was so ridiculous. scott peterson kills his 160-pound wife, puts her body in the back of his truck. he then drives it to his office to pick up the boat. and then, what does he do with the dead body of his wife in a parking lot? he goes back into the office, spends an hour on the internet
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sending christmas email to his boss, and then he said, oh, well, i guess i'd better get rid of the body now. cole believes that media coverage biased against the defendant somehow seeped inside the courtroom. >> this gigantic tsunami of media coverage, much of it falls, much of it totally distorted, concentrating on things that had nothing to do with the evidence. that basically, i think, consumed that a little fact child inside the -- >> the most damaging witness against scott he said, didn't see anything related to a murder. nonetheless, scott in the eyes of the public, and the jury.
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>> once you start looking at that case through and -- lance. everything he did was wrong. >> because he is a lying sheet? >> yes he was. >> the affair with amber made everything scott looked good sinister, but it didn't prove that he killed lacey. >> he behaved awfully? >> his behavior does look odd. he backed himself into a horrible position. >> sure. >> he's thinking, if anyone ever finds out about this woman, not only will it look bad for me, but that will become what the story is about. he was exactly right. so he very foolishly, and not very well, tried to keep her at bay with lies, thinking lacey will be home next week. >> that would explain why he had from tv cameras, not guilty about police, guilty for amber. so that said coal, as why scott
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didn't want a ding on the card or with a cop searching his chalk. >> so lacey's car? though >> he did sell the car. he wasn't rich. the family wasn't rich. -- the whole point of the chip was not so much to catch something, as it was to test the bow. before coming to lacey step down as a christmas present. >> the boat was a gift. and that is why it was kept secret. because it was a christmas thing. all in a sense that coal, why does scott tell amber before she vanished, i lost my wife. >> she confronted him about having a wife, and he said i lost her and this will be my first christmas without her. >> he had that line used on him by a woman who was married. and he asked her if she was married, she said i lost my
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husband. and scott decided that he liked that, and it was a good line. >> in other words he was a cat, not a killer, but how to explain the strange similarities between scott's fishing story and the circumstances of the murder? >> but you know he went fishing in the bay, they found the bodies in the bay, i mean really, who else could have done it? >> i'm glad you asked that question. let's remember the scene. she disappears within a few days, scotts i went fishing and berkeley story is all over the media. >> so the real bad guys, maybe local sex offenders, or the two man arrested for the burglary across the street took their victim to the bay, and frame scott that way. that is cole's theory anyways. it makes more sense than the case against scott.
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so what really happened on that cold december morning? 12 people would decide. >> members of the jury, you have heard all the evidence, and the arguments, now it is my duty to -- that applies to this case. >> after five months of trial, the jury went off to deliberate. one day, two, a week they stayed up. nobody knew why were they thinking. coming up. was that like very level of anxiety? >> i felt like i was going to explode. >> the life of the jurors -- >> tears. everything just comes gushing out. >> when dateline continues. gushin out. >> or night. excess stomach acid can cause heartburn. prilosec otc works differently
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disappeared, after nine days of deliberation, the jury and the scott peterson trial finally -- they had a verdict. >> it was pretty exciting and terrifying. >> as the crowds gathered out front, the reporters got into position, and everyone flooded back into the courtroom. >> what was it like for your level of anxiety? >> i felt like i was going to explode. >> a verdict's being read right now at a california court over the double murder case against scott peterson. there is no camera in the courtroom, but an audio, live audio feed is being provided. >> was the jury in the above untitled cause, find the defendant scott lee peterson guilty in the crime -- against >> finally the word sharon and all those who love lacey had been waiting for. guilty of lacey's murder. and -- >> guilty of the crime of murder of -- >> outside the courthouse, crowds cheered.
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inside, -- >> i remember i burst into tears. everything just comes got gushing out. >> it's two years of -- >> anxiety. waiting. >> a month later, the jury decides scott's fate. with the jury -- penalty at that. >> for 15 years got -- set on death row, condemned man. >> calling the matter of the people versus scott peterson. >> then in june of 2025 video conference, the california state supreme court heard his appeal, which focused in part on how the trial jury was chosen. >> what happened here was a systematic exclusion of those jurors who were -- but cause consider death. >> the state -- there is no credible claim in the subpoenas that anyone of the 12 jurors heard that evidence was anything other
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than fair and impartial. >> in a written ruling issued nearly three months later, the court sided with peterson on the jury question. it overturned his death sentence. but the court also affirmed his murder conviction. meanwhile, the california supreme court delivered another ruling. the very same justices who overturned peterson santas, now say they also wanted his conviction reexamined. ordering a lower court to determine if he should get a new trial. at issue, whether a juror conducted presidents just short on misconduct. expect the process to take years before this is fully resolved, and in the meantime, scott peterson remains in prison. no one has survived untouched. amber's life certainly never returned to what it was, but if
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anything, she told us the whole strange experience made her stronger. her beliefs stronger. >> i am a question. i am a true believer in jesus christ. and i believe chilly in my heart that god prepared my life for this. >> and she is determined to teach her own daughter something she wishes she had understood better when she met this guy. >> we all have heard the expression women's intuition. that got feeling. i think more women need to listen to that, because it is so easy for i will say a manifesto your crazy. you are being paranoid. >> sharon wishes she had some got feeling when she and lacey were looking forward to the new baby, the lives full of hope back then. back in those innocent days before the rest of us heard the name lacey peterson's, or saw
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that smile. >> it does make you question yourself. you no longer trust your instinct and what you think you know about people who you know, or how you know them. >> lacey's mother, her friends, their lives never really returned to normal. how could they? but they have adapted like humans. to stacey laurie and now have their own children -- and those children who never met lacey, know her. she was a part of our life she is a part of our life still. so that means our children need to know about that part of our life. >> she is special and she had a baby. >> so the cemetery is not a place of sadness for them. usually. >> i love it because my boys got to hear about her and they always bring cars out for calmer or a baseball out this time. >> it is a place where they can celebrate a life, someone they
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loved. >> she is and i have been. and she is in our hearts. >> they are lacey. >>. >> this sunday, joe biden's troubled presidency. >> do you want to be on the side of dr. king or george wallace? >> after making a last-minute plea for voting rights legislation -- >> will we choose, democracy over autocracy. i know where i stand. >> president biden concedes defeat when democratic senator kyrsten sinema says no to reforming the filibuster. >> i will not support separate actions that worsen the underlying disease of division infecting our country. >> with his poll numbers falling and his agenda stalled, how does joe biden

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