tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC January 7, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm PST
violent terrorist attack on the capitol. >> senator ted cruz cancelled for observing reality. >> the way i phrase things yesterday, it was sloppy and it was frankly dumb. >> i don't buy that. >> tonight, the real world danger of disqualifying republicans who oppose political violence. courts have not been elected. why in the world would courts decide this question?
the request to appear as early as this month. quote, i think you can expect that before the month's out. there were people who came to the capitol a year ago wanting to hang him. for no other reason, our committee really needs to hear what are his opinions about what happened on january 6th. nbc news is now confirmed that reporting with a committee aid saying quote, the chairman's comments indicate the select committee is con templating an invitation to former vice president some time this month. the chamber said he was hoping to speak to pence directly. the vice chair said yesterday she is looking forward to pen's quote cooperation.
it's unclear the mike pence would agree to talk to the kple voluntary or if they would consider issuing a subpoena. he was one of the few people with security detail and the agents can provide more information about what the white house knew about the threat of violence. perhaps most importantly shs pence can also answer questions about conversations he had with donald trump in the days leading up to the insurrection. we know from extensive media reporting trump pressured pence to enable his coup plot but throwing out million of voefts and handing the election to trump. pence was the one man who may have most prevented many the final moment donald trump from destroying american democracy on the day an angry mob was looking to hang him and told him so. down playing january 6th as just another day. just another day where they were
chanting to hang me and sucking up the fringe elements now fully in charge of the republican party and he is by no means alone. perhaps the most pathetic example of this we have seen is the sad republican senator from texas, ted cruz. he released an official statement saying it was a act of terrorism and shocking assault on our democratic system. that was one year ago. he used that language again in a statement on february 13th, quote, as i've said repeatedly, what we saw on january 6th was a despicable terrorist attack on the united states capitol and on may 28th, he said the january 6th attack on the capitol was a dark moment in our nation's history. that's all over the past year. month after month. the day after, month, after month and wednesday this week, commemorating this anniversary, he said it yet again. >> we have approaching a solemn anniversary this week.
it's an anniversary of a violent terrorist attack on the capitol where we saw the men and women of law enforcement demonstrate incredible courage. >> we should note over the past year he's managed to make those occasional statements while down playing donald trump's role in the insurrection and attacking liberaling for being too obsessed. he was one of the key enablers and plotters of the coup on january 6th. the only reason it had a chance of working is senators joining the house in objecting to elect world certification. he led a group of senators planning to object. voting to over turn the election result ons that faithful day after the violent insurrection. let's be clear. cruz was and is on the side of the mob of its goals, if not its means. i should say for myself that terrorism is not the word i use. we call it political violence or
violent insurrection but putting definitional questions aside, the important thing about rhetoric from cruz and other republicans when they engage is to draw a line between what is and is not acceptable in political conflict. what happened on january 6th was a mass mobilize violent attack. five police officers died in the following days and weeks. 150 officers were injured with some sustaining brain injuries. one being stabbed with a metal fence stake. it was one of the worst days for injuries for law enforcement since september 11th. there was also an attempted pipe bombing at the headquarters of the democratic and republican national committees. a year later, no one has been apprehended in relation to the bombs. we found out vice president harris was inside the headquarters on january 6th when the pipe bomb was discovered outside the building. what would you call someone
planting pipe bombs outside two major headquarters. it was a violent act and to over throe a free and fair election. to install a ruler over the will of the people by force. of course, either ta sidly passing over that fact or endorsing it are the only open positions allowed in the republican party. ve he mentally condemning it as you would think all people across the spectrum would is not allowed. the attempted coup was all fine and good. that whatever donald trump says goes and political violence is not to be condemned when it's done by your side. one of the people who enforces that line along with donald trump and his increasingly authoritarian political movement is the 8:00 p.m. host on the insurrection channel. seen posing with roger stone and proud boys attacks ted cruz for disparaging those fine people who tried to violently over throw our government that day. now, we know that ted cruz has a
long, well established thing for humiliation. he seems to seek it out. that's his business. you may remember when he endorsed donald trump in the 2016 campaign after trump insulted his wife and accused his father of being involved in the kennedy assassination. in that regard it's not surprising that ted cruz went on tucker carlson show, the night after tucker attacked him to humiliate himself. to grovel, to apologize in a mealy mouth fashion and get wallops. >> that's a lie. you told that lie on purpose. i'm wondering why you did. >> thank you for having me on. i sent you a text and said listen, i'd like to go on
because the way i phrased things yesterday was sloppy and dumb. >> i donts buy that. i don't buy that. i've known you a long time since before you went to the senate. you're a supreme court contender. you take words seriously and every word, you repeated that phrase. i do not believe you used that accident accidentally. i don't. >> as a result, it's caused a lot of people to misunderstand what i meant. let me tell you what i meant to say. what i was referring to are the limited number of people who engaged in violent attacks against police officers. >> we cut it off because he says thank you sir, may i have another. he still not had enough. he tweeted out the video along with extra sniveling. i was not calling the thousands of peaceful protesters terrorists. i would not do so. i've said the opposite. denouncing the democratic shameful efforts to do so.
okay. keep in mind, the violence on january 6th was not an accident. it was the point. i feel like people haven't gotten their heads around this. like how did we let that happen. no, no, no, it was the plan. according to a former aide, donald trump refused to include the phrase stay peaceful in the tweet he sent. he refused stay peaceful. why would he refuse? because he did no want them to be peaceful. he didn't want to tell them to be peaceful because he didn't want them to be peaceful because he wanted the insurrection to work. he wanted the mob to occupy the capitol so as to over throw the fairly and democratically elected gov and install him. the violence was the point. supporting that violence is the litmus test for those remaining in the party.
democratic senator chris murphy put it plainly in a tweet replying the scariest thing is it's 100% clear you can't win the republican nomination for president if you oppose political violence. he's right. we're seeing that play out all the time. this is not just high profile ted cruz with his humiliation fetish. even at the lowest levels of the republican party. a republican state senator in wisconsin who had the audacity to say the election was not stolen and to oppose a republican phony investigation into the results has now foreclosed the possibility of her future in the republican party. today, she announced she is not running for re-election. she says she was not forced out but one of the leaders in the election investigation called on her to resign. you know, you do the math. no career for you. opposing the big lie, opposing the insurrection, condemning
political violence whipped up by donald trump, they are not allowed in the republican party. that's where they draw the line. posing political violence when you're side is behind it and donald trump is in favor of it is not allowed. ted cruz is a lot of things, but his decision to do what he did yesterday shows he understands where the future of the republican party lies. congressman ruben is a democrat representing arizona's congressional district. he joins me now. i spend a lot of time around politicians and there's a lot of things politicians do. i think there's a lot of stereotypes that are unfair. they are shiftyx. they do one thing in public and in private. they are ambitious and conniving. i've never seen anything like ted cruz in terms of embodying these. what do you make of what he did?
>> he's the ultimate craven politician who will do anything, sell anything, not defend anything that matters to him provided it leads him to whatever aspirational goal is which i think is still president. look, this is a problem that is across the republican party. they've lost all sense of direction. they are no longer a party of policy of ideas. they are party that's a cult of personality. if you're a good republican elected official, you have to stand by donald trump and you have to basically align with him. part of that is the denial there was political violence. there was terrorism on january 6th. it's a sad statement for cruz. i've been in politics now for ten years. it's just not worth it. it's not worth selling out your family like he did when he sold out his dad and his wife. it's not worth setting out your own soul especially for someone
like donald trump and to grovel at the knees of somebody like tucker carlson. it's definitely not woth it. i would rather be out of politics than have to do something like that. >> yeah, i remember, i had a friend once who ran for officer and i remember having a conversation with him where we were going to like make a list of things he wouldn't do or is a and put it in safe when he went to run. e with would have the key to take it out and say you can't do that, buddy. i think someone should do that there. >> the family. >> what's that? >> it's usually your family that does that for you. >> or someone, some sort of intervention. cruz is a sort of ridiculous example but this is now, this is the lit must test. i think what you saw a year ago is people felt like they could say this is horrible and the senate, i remember the senate republicans treated out like this is not who we are.
granted, the majority of the caucus in the house that you serve with voted for the coup. they could condemn the violence. even that now, condemning violence, this seems to be an important thing if you run a liberal democracy through non-violent means, even condemning the violence is not allowed. >> the violence points directly at donald trump. it's a direct attack on donald trump. if you're saying this is a violent coup or a violent act, you're saying that was pushed by dear leader. you can't attack dear leader. dear leader is perfect. that's what's happening right here. this all points back to the cult of personality that's surrounding donald trump. it's being reenforced through fox news, their particular blogs, telegraph list and what's
happening more and more is because the decisions are being made in primary, the republican party is becoming more extreme because moderates are just levering the republican party and not participating in primaries. this thing is going to keep evolving. the way you stop this, the way we have seen it pushed back in arizona is you have to start giving them losses and proof to the point where extremists can't win and hopefully there's some type of fixing. the problem you have here is donald trump controls the message and the money of the republican party. it's going to be very difficult for them to do that until donald trump is defeated one more time. >> cruz is one figure. kevin mccarthy strikes me as a similar figure. he's gone from, i think, saying the president bears responsibility to going -- go ahead. >> i mean kevin mccarthy is ted cruz but just not as smart. he's the dumber version of ted
cruz. still empty shell of a human being. just a craven as a politician but not as smart. he'll do anything to become speaker of the house. he'll align with qanon, crazies, matt gaetz who is pretty close to hopefully being indicted of being a pedophile. this is the type of person he is. he'll do it because he wants the title of speaker of the house. he's the dumber version of ted cruz in the house. >> what is your judgment of mike pence in all this who looks like the committee will ask to speak to voluntarily this month? >> i think mike, former vice president pence needs to understand he's not going to be president. he's not going to win a primary because donald trump will never support him. he should go and follow up on the integrity he showed on january 6th. i was on the floor on january 6th. i waited till the final vote was done and i went up and shook his
hand. i disagree with him lot. that day he showed integrity and i was going to commend him for that. he should solidify his reputation and if anything cleanse his reputation from being so aligned with donald trump. that's exactly what i would be doing. sorry, i have a little guy that just popped in. >> good. we're big fans of little guys. hey, buddy. >> i got dessert after this. >> you just offered good advice for any children within earshot about how to conduct yourself. thank you for your time. >> thank you for your time too. you don't have to be that old to remember the pretty dark legacy that dick cheney earned and the less than flatserring nickname that went along with it. >> vice president cheney came up
to see the republicans yesterday. you can tell when the republicans are restless because the vice president's motorcade pulls into the capital and darth vader emerges. >> it's an amazing term to see people like nancy pelosi embracing him last night. bepeli embracing him last night ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom ♪ ♪ for me and you ♪ ♪ and i think to myself ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ a rich life is about more than just money. that's why at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner so you can build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. age-related macular degeneration may lead to severe vision loss. and if you're taking a multivitamin alone, you may be missing a critical piece.
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here's a plot twist i did not see coming in the season five finale of this national nightmare, carl rove, the republican architect put a opinion piece on the republican january 6th responsibility. he writes quote to move beyond january 6th, 2021, we must put country ahead of party. there can be no soft pedaling of what happened. love of country demands nothing less as true patriotism. yesterday as the house commemorated, the only republicans observing the floor was liz cheney and her father. former vice president dick cheney. vice president cheney was asked his response. it's a bit hard to here but you can follow along with subtitles.
>> thank you. >> dick cheney, carl rove back in surprise appearances as our democracy hangs in the balance. i got to say, truly vile past, trying to step in as the moral moral conscience for the republican party. my first thought was about you because i read your book right when it came out. it's a fantastic biography.
i have been thinking watching liz cheney like where is the old man on this. we got our view. what do you make of his appearance yesterday? >> well, the first thing you got to say is he's a really good dad. i mean, he's there as the father supporting his daughter. it happens to be that they both had been minority whip of the house of representatives and he's been standing back watching her career and letting her do her thing. i think it's clear he loathes donald trump. he did a lot of things that were terrible for the country. he made a lot of big mistakes but they were always sincere. he's an idealog.
he's a zealot. one of the things he believes in is the constitution. he had them do the oath right there with him. he's there for his daughter. i don't know whether he or she think that she has way back, politically, having made the stand she's made. they're standing up with it. >> my sort of take on this is the a, the bush people and people around bush loathe trump, permly, viscerally hate him. hate him pause of the way he talked about george w. bush.
we seen this through the years. lots of bush people hate trump. there's a principal objection. i think liz believes january 6th was horrifying. i also wonder like so many people in the republican party have gone broke shorting trump stock but at some point, it can want last forever. i think if you got to be thinking if you're liz cheney that if the thing blows up, if it does come to an end, someone will be there to pick up whatever is left. i got to think that's part of the strategic political thinking as she negotiates this situation right now. >> true. she's young enough to ride this out. i mean, her dad is in the trump and biden generation. he's walking pretty lowly. he's only one year older than
mike. she's got time. she's got time if the republican party falls apart and has to remake itself and someone is standing there saying, i told you not to go down that road. we seem quite ways off from that at the moment. >> that's the thing. i think the primary she will get in wyoming will be real showdown over this. that fiepgt will end up being a fascinating war of the roses proxy fight between the sort of cheney-bush world and maga world. >> yeah, i think that's right. look, she is at real risk in the primary. >> yes. >> because of who turns up at primaries. in general election, she would easily be the favorite with all
republican and democrats voting. she would be the favorite to win again. whether she gets past the hard core and the kinds of loyalists who turn up at the primary is a difference question. >> yeah, she may have to pull a murkowski there. thank you very much. >> thank you. statewide elections are inundated with republican candidate who is have embraced trump's bogus election fraud. what happens if they win? that's next. machine happens if they win that's next. machin this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare,
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administration of elections. that includes 69 candidates for governors as well as 65 candidates for u.s. senate and 18 candidates for secretary of state in place where is that person is the state's top election official. trump tried to over turn the will of the voters this six battleground states in 2020 and it was only through the integrity of officials in charge, some of them republicans that he did not succeed. those are states at the local and state level. i'm joined by officials in front lines of two of these vital ground states. you have republicans in your state undergoing their own kind of investigation of the 2020 election as we speak right now. >> that's right. what's happening in wisconsin is different than what unfolded in
arizona but equally harmful. it's doing a similar thing to perpetuate the big lie. it's being led by a former state supreme court justice who made a number of wild accusations about what's happening. so far it hasn't proven anything. we had a number in wisconsin. time after time shst shown what we all know is we have safe and secure elections in wisconsin. >> secretary benson, talk to me about how the sort of authority of elections flows in state like michigan and who the people are at the sort of local levels and how much, who they are matters to preserving the integrity of the system itself. >> thanks chris for having us and highlighting this very critical matter for all of us tonight and this whole year. in michigan, we have a very decentralized system of
elections which is good because it ensures we have over 1600 clerks add ministering the process. as a state chief election officer, i help and over see and support those individuals but after the election is done, we have a similarly decentralized certification process where partisans appointed in the canvassing boards for every county at the state review the details of the election and certify it and that is how election results become finalized. interesting thing happening in michigan is the republican appointees in wayne county at the state level who did the right thing with integrity, follow law and certify our election results in 2020 have been replaced by individual who is believe, falsely, that the 2020 election results was inaccurate. we are facing a potential
challenge in future elections where you have people in charge of certifying elections who don't seem to believe in democracy. >> i want to come back to attorney general in a second. let me follow up with you with one more question. not to get too into the weeds of michigan state election law, these have these ministerial roads. they're administrative. we counted it. these are the votes. we looked at the spread sheet and made sure there's no errors. boom, stamp it. if you have people on those boards, no, we don't like the results. we're not certifying this. what happens? >> you go to court to force them to do their jobs and follow the law. that's what will happen if that occurs in future elections. >> yeah. that's the recourse. attorney general call, you talked about the sort of, this investigation and secretary benson just talked about republicans that sort of upheld
integrity last time being weeded out. today there's news we mentioned her in the top, a gop state senator who has been quite critical in your state said she's not running for re-election. it's clear that view has placed her outside the acceptable boundaries to republican party in state of wisconsin. >> she's the one republican in our state legislature who had the courage to stand up and call out these attacks on our democracy. she's the chair of our senate elections commission. when she leaves office, she's going to be replaced by somebody who hasn't been willing to stand up to these attacks. i think it's important that secretary benson made which is that since the attacks in 2020 presidential election and since the insurrection, rather than seeing the republican party step back and realize they had gone way too far, we have seen efts to purge republicans officials who did the right thing in 2020
and there will be efforts to unseat the democratic officials who stood in the way of those attacks and our system worked in part because people in the key positions did the right thing. 2022 was going to have an impact on what happens with those positions in the future. >> what is the path forward here. the thing that seems most key here is the position of secretary state, secretary benson where you would be the one. in the hypothetical effort, it will be your office bringing suit. those positions really seem crucial and important heading into these midterms. >> oh, yeah. in michigan, i'm fortunate enough to have great partner in the attorney general's office where we can work in concert to defend and protect democracy.
these statewide roles are pivotal and democracy's ability to survive in the future will be determined by who wins and loses this november. >> we should be clear there are republicans who trustworthy. it's a question of whether they can make it through. thank you both. >> thanks for having us. still ahead, you don't hear this really anywhere but i'm going tole you, it's a victory lap to be taken over the booming american economy. joe biden did just that. why the american recovery is going so much better than you may think, coming up. h better t
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to the most morally indefensible aspects during the covid pandemic has been embrace of anti-democratic methods and vaccine skepticism and denial. both of those traits on full display when donald trump 6-3 supreme court heard arguments on vaccine mandates. back in 1970, both houses of congress passed the occupational safety and health act with overwhelming bipartisan support. it was signed into law by republican president richard nixon which established osha to oversee worker safety. according o the law, osha quote
shall, shall declare an emergency temporary standard to take immediate effect if employees are exposed to grave danger from exposure to substances or agents determined to be toxic or physically pardon meful or for new hazards and such emergency standard is necessary to protect employees from such danger. now, i'm not lawyer but that seems pretty cut and dry. osha is obligated to take emergency measures to protect employees from substances agents or hazards that put workers in grave danger like a highly infectious virus that already killed 830,000 americans. the federal action to fight covid. he won that election by 7 million votes. he won the electoral college and used the victory to tape that within the scope of the osha law signed by conserve. conservatives don't like it. they have their own supervisory
legislation we call the supreme court. it's court with a solid trump majority which looks set to over turn the vaccine requirement for large employers. in an emergency appeal session today the audio which was broadcast live, the conservative justices made it clear what they thought of biden's plan. >> the 20-year-olds who are unvak si flated are actually safer than the older works who aren't vaccinated. there are obviously some differences. would you just talk about how efficaciosu the vaccine is in the workplace. >> full vaccination mite mooigt not be the two jabs. it might include a booster as well. when does the emergency end? when must osha resort to its regular authority and not be doing it in this quick kwa which doesn't afford people a voice in the process that they are otherwise entitled to. sdm you're saying that congress
acted. don't complain that congress hasn't done anything. that was 50 years ago that you're saying congress acted. i don't think it had covid in mind. >> there hasn't been any official decision but it sounds like this handful of right wing judges will legislate which the bench and be open to scooping in to tell the president despite the authority granted to the executive branch his mandate is unconstitutional because clarence thomas doesn't like it. it's justified by the horrific ongoing toll of the pandemic. >> this is pandemic in which nearly a million people have died. it is by far the greatest public health danger this country has faced in the last century. whatever necessary means, whatever grave means, why isn't this necessary and grave? it's an extraordinary use of emergency power occurring in an
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voter suppression? a couple of months ago we heard a lot of dire warnings about supply chain problems leading to a crisis around the holidays, thanksgiving and christmas. we acted. we brought together business and labor to solve the problems. the much predicted crisis didn't occur. the grinch did not steal christmas. nor any boats. president joe biden was out touting the success of the administration's economy. something we do not hear about. things look much better than they did four or five months ago when all your heard about was inflation and disrupted supply chains. look at this graph. the dotted red line is the jobs recovery from the great recession in 2008. look how long and shallow that
recovery is. it took over 70 months to get back. the solid blue line is the covid recovery. the jobs line drops really quickly and starts rebounding really quickly when everything opened back up. a long way to go but how much farther we are along 21 months in. as president biden tweeted today the nation's unemployment rate fell to 3.9%. that's the sharpest one year drop. there are lots of bumps and dislocations, but in the -- democrats are able to come in and pass two huge bills, the bipartisan infrastructure bill to stimulate the economy, and we're seeing the effects. it's one of the things that drives me a little insane about this whole situation and conversation. the left, specifically, won the intellectual debate about the great recession, the republican driven os terty showed down the post-2008 recovery and it consigned millions to
unnecessary misery for years, likely, i think, paving the way for trump's rise. this time democrats did the opposite. they invested a lot of money in the recovery and just had really positive effects but for some reason that's not enough of a victory lap, especially since one of the key factors that determines who wins the midterms, possibly american democracy, is the economy. now, today, december jobs numbers came out, below expectations, also wort noting for the past four months these reports have been wildly inaccurate. they had to do revisions and readjust the numbers higher three of the past four months. another thing, two days ago the payroll processing adp reported private job growth in december more than doubled estimates. so it's pretty clear the data is very noisy right now but the job market is very strong. i'll leave you with one final graph to make my point about the progress that has been made. whatever the jobs report is for december, 2021 as a year, saw the fastest job growth in more than four decades. see that big spike all the way at the end?
the last time that happened was 1978. paul krugman recently wrote a piece, don't tell anyone, but 2021 was pretty amazing and he joins me now. on the economy i agree with you, and i feel like it's a bizarrely under -- underarticulated view. why do you think it was pretty amazing? >> well, i mean, look, we've become accustomed to these long, slow job recoveries and it took a long time to dig out of the hole from each of the past three recessions and this time we came out really fast and we are, you know, by number measures we're pretty close to where we were before the pandemic hit. unemployment is back below 4%. prime age employment not quite back to where it was, but back to what it was in 2018. which i don't remember people pulling a bad year so, yeah, i mean, if you were -- and this is
not -- i mean, some of us did suspect this was going to be a fast rekov but the average forecast was for something much more sluggish so this should be considered, hey, we've faced the greatest economic blow certainly tins the oil crisis, and possibly since the great depression, and we bounced back from it in almost no time, as these things go. >> you know, there's a bunch of indicators, you saw household wealth in the bottom 50% increased measurably, the amount of savings that americans had, particularly in the bottom half of the distribution. increased as well. we have the most competitive job market, we've probably ever seen in our lifetime with records of what's called quits, with people leaving work to go pursue other jobs. and yet you poll people on the economy and they're like, i don't like it. how do you square that circle in your mind? >> okay, first, inflation is a real thing, let's admit that. >> yeah, no. >> a lot of people's wages have not kept up with crisis.
the inflation -- the inflation was probably unavoidable. it's hard to see, you know, given all of the disruptions, belingering effects of the pandemic, the only way to have not had inflation would have been to screw up this jobs recovery which would have been a bad deal for everybody. but, you know, so that's the real part. the other thing is there are two kinds of questions that you get in surveys. one is, how is the economy doing and the other is, how are you doing? when you ask people how are you doing, by and large, they say fine. when you ask people about their personal financial situation. >> yup. >> you ask them how are they doing compared with the way they -- with five years ago, those are all looking pretty good. you ask them about the economy, they say it's awful. and of course that's very much along the partisan lines, self-identified republicans say that this is the worst economy, you know, that it's as bad as 2009 when the unemployment rate was insanely high and the economy was crashing. so a lot of what -- when, you
know, kind of -- i'm okay, but somehow things must be terrible for other people because that's -- that's what i'm hearing on the news and that's what my politics says i should believe. >> you know, and on that inflation point, which i agree with you, like it's real and there's no -- you know, you can't what about it, it really matters and it matters in people's lives and experience of the economy. i thought biden's speech today was sort of surprisingly and remarkably sophisticated as a piece of economic analysis. >> yeah. >> he talks about prices going up for cars, he's got a great riff, prices are going up for cars because more people have money to buy cars which is boosting demand and we can't make enough. there's two ways to deal with that. we can figure out ways to make more cars or make people poorer so there's less demand. he said surprisingly there's a lot of people in the latter camp camp. the people what wont to slow down the recovery, i thought it was a very -- a pretty elegant articulation of his vision out
of it. >> yeah, i was really surprised it was so well -- well, there is something that i or my friends might have written. i've actually had to focus, the same thing, on the ports. yeah, we've got -- we've got congestion at the ports of long beach and los angeles, where a lot of imports come in. how many hundreds of thousands of american workers should be without jobs so as to ease the congestion at the ports? >> right. >> now, that's not the say we should never, ever raise rates. the federal reserve was talking about raising rates a bit because in the -- you know in the year ahead, which makes some sense because we look like we're getting pretty close to full employment. that's not a crazy thing to be doing, but the idea is that we should have done something very different, that we should not have had this rapid recovery, you know, because the ports are clogged. that is just a crazy tradeoff, and nothing that any responsible president should be -- should have been advocating. >> paul krugman, always a
pleasure to talk to you about all this stuff. i appreciate it, have a great weekend. that is "all in" for this week, the rachel maddow show starts right now with ali velshi in for rachel. >> good to see you, my friend. have an excellent weekend. thanks for joining us this hour. rachel got the nating off. here's how it went down, it was a chilly afternoon in early january, angry crowds stormed the federal government's main building. police tried to hold them off but were overrun. by nightfall there were several people dead and injured and the seat of government was trashed, windows were broken, small fires were smolderering. it was as though in a single day the country was irrev cably changed. that's what happened in january, not last january, not a year ago, but this january. two days ago. and not at the u.s. capitol. but in the central asian nation of kazakhstan. this is the main government building in kazakhstan's largest city on wednesday, the former