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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  December 30, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST

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democracy. and the truth about the great shoplifting freak out of 2020. one state now proposing a bounty for parents who find banned books in school. when all in, starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. that's we are about to enter a new year. the third calendar year of the pandemic. take a look at this map. put out by the centers of disease control and prevention. it shows the level of community transmission of covid in america right now. laughing at sort of a joke. it's a pretty clear map. solid red in all 50 states. district of columbia and puerto rico experiencing cdc calls high transmission. we are getting new records. as daily case counts sore across the country to the highest amount we diversity. can see on this chart. line is practically going straight up. as we assess where we are right now. i think it's important to understand the fact, omicron variant is just much more transmissible than the previous
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variants. particularly, the early ones. just a different scale. professor of emerging infectious diseases at the london school of hygiene and tropical medicine estimates, what is called the are not of omicron, could be a size ten. which means every person infected with it infects on average another ten people. that is just so contagious. that is compared to an average of 2.5 people with the original strain. when covid first landed on our shores. and seven people with the delta variant. which itself was by far the most contagious variant that we've seen. to stop something that infectious, something within our not of ten, you would need essentially, 100% vaccination. it's like stamping out measles. basically everyone. to get to heard immunity. we don't have that. and so short of instituting extreme dramatic lockdowns. things like we had in march and
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april. this variant is going to spread like crazy. it is exactly what we are seeing. this moment is in some ways, one of the weirdest of the pandemic. during the two year mark and all of the sudden, dealing with the summer different beast in some ways. comes as the cdc just amended the quarantine guidelines. i think the first thing we should be doing about as we assess what's going on, what to do about. what is the goal here? if you are like me, maybe you are losing side avoid it is. i spoke to doctor anthony fauci last night on this program and about this very question. i thought he gave a striking an honest assessment. >> nothing is going to be 100%. this is one of those situations where you are dealing with a very difficult situation chris. which is you don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good. the cdc feels and i don't disagree with them at all, that wearing a mask is ample
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protection. during that second half of a ten-day period. when you balance that against. the importance of trying to get people back. functioning in society. the alternative is something that no one wants. that is to shut down completely. we know that is not going to be palatable to the american public. that is something you want to be avoiding. so how do you get people back to function in society. not with a zero risk, but with a markedly diminished risk. >> today dr. rochelle walensky, the director of the cdc, echoed with doctor fauci told me. spoke about the cdc's no quarantine guidelines. how the intention was to strike a balance between minimizing risk and matt customizing compliance among a pandemic weary population. >> it really had a lot to do with what we thought people would be able to tolerate. we have seen relatively low rates of isolation. for all of this pandemic.
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some science has demonstrated less than a third of people are isolating when they need to. so we really want to make sure we have guidance. in this moment where we are going to have a lot of disease that could be adhered to. that people were willing to adhere to. >> let's step back for a second. just assess these developments and why we are at the point we are. the most important thing that has changed over the course of the pandemic. is that now, more than 200 million americans are fully vaccinated. nearly 66% of the eligible population. that is transformed the risk level and experience of the pandemic for the majority of those people. of course, there are still people, many people, millions of people who are immunocompromised and otherwise vulnerable due to age and medical condition. for the people who don't fall into that category. talking about 150 million people, maybe more. those people who are vaccinated, particularly those who are boosted. you know, the risk, the personal risk of being exposed to this. went from something that we
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hadn't really dealt with specifically like this before in our lifetimes. we haven't quite hadn't illness this infectious and this possible to cause serious illness. to something that does look more like the flu. now the flu of course can still be dangerous. kills tens of thousands of americans every year. but we don't re-enter lives around the flu. so that's closer billable risk that over 200 million americans are now dealing with. then when you add in the sheer exhaustion that people feel. i don't to tell you, this onshore. you are feeling this yourself. obviously the politics of the pandemic are still difficult than they were earlier in the pandemic. a very significant portion of the country thought the whole thing was bs in the beginning, as we already know. matthew walter put it in the atlantic earlier this month, outside the world inhabited by the professional classes and a handful of metropolitan areas, many americans are living their lives as though covid is over. maybe overstating the case a little bit. but yeah. an enormous swath of the country. vast majority of people don't
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care about. talk about, or certainly take active protections against. now, the hospital workers in those places sure do. compromise probably do. across huge swaths of the country, tens of millions of people are living their lives to the covid did not exist. it chunk of the country that does care. but is now vaccinated. people who care the most and also be boosted. wants to do things that were difficult for a long time. like get together with loved ones on the holidays. go to dinner, a movie, visit their friends. and understandably, people feel that those things come with unacceptable of risks now that they're vaccinated. so that leaves us where we are. the sort of politics. the broad sense of public opinion. institutional appetites across the nation. politics of normalcy. sort of willing things to be normal. people are over. i get it, i feel that way too. but then there's a virus. which just doesn't care. just a little piece of dna.
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floating around. and it's still very much there. and the most blunt tools we have to contain it. like non-pharmaceutical interventions. like lockdowns shutting things down. that all leads us to this kind of strange period where we are now. the modeling through phase. modeling through the omicron phase. we know is going to be disruptive. that transmits it is so high. you heard doctor fauci acknowledge that. and what i thought was striking language. saying it factored in the cdc's decision to shorten the recommended length of quarantine. there are going to be so many people testing positive for omicron, long periods of -- disrupt the functioning of our society. we've already seen flashes of that. industries are hit with outbreaks. in airlines canceling thousands of flights last few days. sports leagues canceling, postponing games. on monday, a record 96 nfl
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players tested positive in one day. broadway shows have been canceled. city emptied clinics in new york city have shut down because of staffing shortages. the big question is, so how do we avoid the worst disruptions, minimizing deaths? we know there is a key problem standing in the way of the. we have a huge pool of unvaccinated people. tens of millions of unvaccinated people. we have, through some combination of exhaustion, i think national human process of acclamation, got used to a truly devastating amount of death. i gotta. 12 to 1300 deaths per day, over the past two weeks. just churning in the background of our lives. i am not saying that to get anyone. there's truly only so much anyone can do to contemplating mass death. we seem to have reached a collectible decision that this levels tolerable. of course, not everyone agrees. some people who find
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intolerable have been very sharp in leveling criticism that the biden administration for in their view, tolerating it. i am sympathetic to a lot of their critiques. i think it's worth the english in between things the policymakers can and cannot control at this. more we know flat out. there is no tolerance for the kinds of broad lockdowns and non-pharmaceutical interventions we saw in the past. that is the kind of thing that you can expect. to suppress the virus. that is this contagious. probably the only thing. with their left with, is trying to manage what to do. if you can't do that. now, there are two places i think they fallen on the job. one is on boosters. they had a plan to boost every american. what happened, they allow themselves to get bullied by their own public health experts and advisory committees to muddy the waters on. and then this testing. the administration got a lot of criticism for jen psaki's off
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the cuff remarks. would you want to do, sentenced everyone in the country? the answer was yes. you should do that. here's the thing. look at the uk. that is a place that has instituted both of those policies. has one of the highest booster rates. in the entire. world has a lot of testing. . that has not stopped in omicron outbreak. in the, and that's with things look like. when you look at the country that has deployed boosters a rapid testing better than we did, they are still having insane outbreak. that is the inescapable reality of the contagious-ness of this new variant and the world in which we live. for the future suitable future. doctor peter hotez is the dean of the national school of medicine. co director of the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. author of preventing the next pandemic. vaccine diplomacy. active commissioner of health
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of the state. great pleasure to have both of you returning to the program. doctor let me start with you. as somebody who is a public health official. who's had to do the stuff of public health. make policy decisions, under conditions of uncertainty. bouncing very different interests. how do you think about the way i laid out that framework. how you are thinking about this moment. in a state that is undergoing a very severe spike. >> that is true. new york state is undergoing a severe spike. we presume is in omicron. have 60% of our variants now, the omicron variant. 67,000 new cases is the number that we have from yesterday. we have that omicron pattern that you showed for the uk. that you described in south africa. and since i've been commissioner, we've done two things. one, the governor has declared orders a mask, or vaccine mandate. the other is we on december 24th, instituted for health
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workers a new period of isolation. following asymptomatic, positive tests. for covid. our tools are the same ones that you outlined. they are getting vaccinated. which is why the uk is not experiencing the kind of military lucky. we are also urging people to wear masks. i know people are tired. this is a creative and resilient virus. we have to match its creativity and resilience. with the tools that we have. so, we have really been pushing vaccination. and on top of that, really, rolling out testing. i hope that as we face the end of the year, another surge of this pandemic. that we don't get away from the things that made us so vulnerable in the first place. as a nation. to having one of the worst outbreaks of any wealthy nation.
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part of it has been the role that we played in the world. the fact we've been unable to push out the kind of global access to vaccines that the world needed. the other has been the huge low levels of inequality in our own society. which made so many people exposed to the virus in the first wave. and makes, in some ways, people kind of cynical. about the fact that government is claiming that the only thing they need to do is roll up their sleeves. like that photograph showed you people know that they need better working conditions, more housing. better wages all of those conversations need to take place as well. we in public health shouldn't shy away from them. you mentioned the global vaccine distribution. >> a lot of people of pulled to
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the pool of covid vaccine vaccination efforts and how those are behind. doctor hotez, you've been working on a vaccine to use technology. to have produced the technology with no intellectual property control. that can be distributed in manufactured across the world. a low cost vaccine that got approval. i believe for use in india. that you've been working on. can you tell us about that? how important that is? >> in our texas children senator vaccine development. part of the baylor college of medicine. which i coed with my science partner for the last 20 years. what we do, we developed low cost protein vaccines. that the big pharma companies won't make. because they are four diseases of poverty. ironically, about ten years ago, we adopted a coronavirus vaccine program. that, on top of our parasitic disease program. all we know how to do is make low-cost durable vaccines for use and research. that service well when we made
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the covid-19 vaccine. we licensed it with no patterns. no strings attached. help with development in india, indonesia, bangladesh, botswana. and he is the farthest along. with our partners. one of the strong vaccine producers in india. now haven't advanced purchase for 300 million doses for the indian government. they have 150 million doses ready to go. emergency use authorization. the ioc is, we just match the u.s. government commitment to global health equity for the vaccines. and level. you can go a pretty long way. we need to do this. here's why being sides the honest humanitarian drive. because it is the right thing to do. it is the fact that look, where delta came out of. came out of the unvaccinated population. omicron came out of an unvaccinated population on the
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-- as long as we refuse to vaccinate the southern hemisphere, we are going to have other variants. we would've been like if omicron had not been less severe and more severe, we would be having a very different discussion right now. the only way we are going to do that is to vaccinate the southern hemisphere. we think our vaccine is going to be the one that can really do this. especially from get some help. >> yeehaw. vaccinating the world is the only end goal here. the only way. it's a big world, but we got to do. doctor peter hotez, dr. mary bass, thank you so much. tonight, big news, federal jury returns five guilty verdicts in the south trafficking trial of ghislaine maxwell. convicting her for her role in converting incriminating teenage girls to be abused by her longtime partner jeffrey epstein. truly k brown, the most important reporter on this before the last five or six years enjoys fans on today's verdict means, next.
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verdict in the trial of ghislaine maxwell. former companion of jeffrey epstein, who should be on trial right now, had he not committed suicide in a federal prison. maxwell was committed on sex trafficking with minors. carries a maximum sentence of 40 years in jail. tonight's verdicts feels like a modicum of justice for the many teenage girls who were paid
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upon by justin maxwell for many years. trial highlighted maxine social circles. comprised liberties. including our last president donald trump. had this to say after maxwell rest in 2020. >> just wish her well. frankly, i've met her on numerous times over the years. since i lived in palm beach. they lived in palm beach. i wish her well. whatever it is. >> brown is the reporter, brought it back into the light. author perversion of justice, the jeffrey epstein story. now the cohost of the sisters in law podcast. joins us now. as i said, truly let start with you. before we want to break, you are single-handedly responsible for us being at this point. thank you to your very tenacious reporting. in terms of the verdict, where the cases presented here.
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were you surprised by the outcome. given the difficulty of cases like this. >> it took quite a long time. it was 40 hours of deliberations. they asked for about 13 different transcripts of testimony. a various people. we knew that they were plotting through this. it was a very much a complicated charge. with the six different charges. different elements to recharge. they really had an enormous task ahead of them. we expected this morning. we asked whether they were going to be able to. whether the judge was going to ask them to stay over the holiday weekend. we start, i think also the defense thought. that this was going to take a lot more time. everyone was sort of surprised. when they came back to learning this afternoon. >> from a legal perspective
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joyce. i'm curious what your reaction is. again, a difficult case. some ways there's a lot of evidence. we were dealing with people whose memories can be questioned. things that happened years ago, up against the kind of statute of limitations. there's a long time window. obviously, a defendant who has some means. who can hire very good attorneys. >> this was a very difficult case for the prosecution chris. you are absolutely right to point to the age of the crimes. normally federal crimes have typically a five year statute of limitations. you can only prosecute within five years of the events occurring. but there is an abrogation of that statute of limitations for crimes involving children and for sex crimes involving children. that means that prosecutors were able to bring these older charges. that came out a cost, with the defense putting on an expert witness. who talked about the unreliability of aging memory.
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a very difficult case. a very good result for prosecutors. >> we should just back up a little julie. maybe you can sketch out. this is a very strange situation. in which jeffrey epstein, sources of his wealth have always been a little bit opaque. sort of made himself indispensable to variety of very rich people. became quite rich himself. then acquired a reputation as someone, who in the words of donald trump on the record in a magazine profile many years ago, like girls, some of them quite young. this is trump told a reporter. a little bit of an open secret. and he does get charged. and that leads to this bizarre pleaded. which you covered. that basically let some off the hook with a slap on the rest. remind us what happened. there to create the conditions that led to the arrest and trial. and then ghislaine maxwell straw.
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what >> happened here from the very beginning. law enforcement started in 2005. did their job. local police chief and the chief detective who handled the case. they did a good job. managed to get a lot of young girls to tell them what happened. they felt very badly. it's not easy getting them on the record. at least a handful of them were willing to testify against him. instead, what happened was, but local prosecutors. sort of decided he wasn't going to do anything with the case. was going to let him off the hook. the police chief went over the prosecutor's head. asked the fbi take over the case, which they did. thinking now, he's finally, the police are thinking finally, something is going to be done with this case. unfortunately, the exact opposite happens. epstein called in a lot of really connected lawyers. people who had connections in
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washington. and before anybody who really knew what had happened, epstein had received this very lenient plea deal. he was already in jail by the time the victims even realized that this deal had been executed. it was sealed. nobody could understand what had happened until years later. >> of course, you're reporting on the weirdness. the strangeness. perhaps a legal shakiness of that deal. because of stipulations. they had to inform survivors and victims of it. partly led to the reassessment. public scandal, and then the indictment of epstein. himself of course, that is the shadow that hangs over all of this. joyce that ghislaine maxwell was quite clearly his facilitator. and a very very sick interested fashion. it was epstein was the center of this. he managed to kill himself in federal custody before he could face justice.
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>> that is the problem here. this is a case that involves a lot of people who were predators. who victimize these women. full justice, full accountability, looks like all of those people being charged. so the big question on everyone's mind is weather now that she is facing essentially, given her age, life in prison. the possibility of light from prison. maxwell will decide to cooperate. if he makes that decision, which tv able to provide testimony. could it be corroborated. now she is convicted, she's some wet tarnished as a cooperator. although still valuable. whether they will continue to be more justice for the victims of these crimes. >> that is a really good question. one we will continue to cover. i know julie will as well. julie enjoys, thank you very much. still to come, despite early expectations, it looks like democrats might not be getting
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destroyed in the gerrymandering battle. but is it heads off for them to hold onto the midterms? that is next. that is next
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>> right now they're three prime anyways republicans are actively attempting to undermine democratic representation in this country. they are pushing to suppress the votes in states they control. brennan center for justice found that as of october, 19 states have enacted 33 laws that will make it harder for americans to go in just this year. they are also trying to subvert and colonize professional election institutions and officials. like when trump campaign repeatedly attacked to georgia poll workers. leading to death threats towards the woman. now we're trying to replace people on election boards. run for secretary of state. also trying to use gerrymandering. in the once in a decade process of redrawing congressional districts. to try to tilt the playing field towards republicans. give them as many
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representatives as possible. as frightful as all of that is, there's been some good news on the last front, on gerrymandering. eric levitz is a senior writer on the intelligence agents mazy he joins us now. this piece has got a lot of attention, people are arguing of what it means. let's start with the baseline expectations. what's your cases about how things are looking right now thus far, as state-by-state issues there nearly drunk congressional maps. >> sure. we are starting off from a situation where republicans control a lot more state governments and democrats do. because the typical u.s. stay is more right wing in the country. they have control over the district lines. of more congressional districts. then democratic trifecta. this, plus the fact that they have the chance to update. they are already gerrymandered
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house now. to fit their current coalition. which has shifted over the last ten years. where the suburbs have moved a little more towards blue america. and the excerpts have come increasingly densely republican. they've chance to adjust the lines to fit that. that in the fact that a bunch of blue states are unilaterally disarmed in adjoining wars. including, most conspicuously, california. has 52 districts it can drop out sourcing the redistributing process to independent, nonpartisan commissions. made many think that possibly republicans could retake the house, simply by redrawing districts. keep the vote shared the same as it was in 2020 and you still get a republican congress, just because the lines change. that no longer looks like it is going to be the case. for a few different reasons. one. >> let me pause you there, before you give the reason. just to go back through that.
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you have very aggressive republican-controlled states. they control a lot of states. we have a bunch of democratic states where there are things like commissions, independent commissions that draw the lines. california most notably. it can't be alike machine oriented brass tacks, aggressive partisan exercise. the third thing, you have republican states where you have a body that is supposed to be a regulator on this. that's true in ohio, juvenile, join utah. it will republicans of basically just steamrolled. they come back and are like oh, this is our airfare maps. they're like get out here. including utah, where there's a overwhelming state referendum. all that combined, made it look like one side is like, you know, pressing the advantage. the other isn't. why has it not at least cashed in on the worst terms yet? >> there are a few reason. one is that the nonpartisan
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committee has been ambiguous to its effects than anticipated. there are some california democrats that i've spoken to, believe we are getting a more pro democratic map out of the non partisan commission. because of the party legislators in large. there is competing interest in redistricting. where incumbents have an incentive to make their job security, as good as possible. which means giving themselves a little more democratic voters than they strictly need. even if that comes at the cost of reducing the number of total, more than 50% democratic districts. the independent -- not constrained by those in combat. california is pretty darn democratic. out of california, even though it is nonpartisan. at the same time, in states where democrats have trifecta's, like illinois, in oregon. they are pushing really hard. they're internalizing. at the federal level right now, our party is trying to make it so that we all disarm. there is a ban on partisan
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gerrymandering. if we are not going to do that, we recognize how this is shaping up. going to try and get as many blue seats as possible. that, plus the fact that in some states, there's different ways to gerrymander. texas republicans have really prioritized building up huge walls against a blue wave. still not going to knock off their incumbent. also, building in rooms. the suburbs of texas start moving like other parts of the country, they're still going to be safe. the flip side of that, they haven't minimize the number of democratic seats across the state. in the same way that democrats in illinois are minimizing the number of republican seats. put all the stuff together, it's not quite as bad as many thought. >> we should know. a, there is a federal legislation that would disarm everyone. create a more -- procedure. we are not through. this eric levitz, thanks so
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much for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, truth behind the great american retail crime wave of 2021. fact-checker on the shoplifting panic. don't miss. we will be right back. we will be right back.
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>> one of the big thing of right-wing media, a lot of local news as well this year. has been the narrative that america is a wash in crime. not totally detached from some real statistics that are quite unnerving. murders. jumped by nearly 30%. largest single year increase in 2020. that's last year. the evidence we have so far, points to homicides continuing to rise in 2021. so that israel. and really bad. on top of the actual story of a genuine increase in inter personal violence in america, amidst the pandemic, disruptions in locations. right-wing media is constantly peddling which i think is a completely propagandistic
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story. specifically about out of control retail theft. >> so many democratic led cities moving to defund the police are also seeing a surge in crime this year. especially shoplifting. >> america's crime crisis is spiraling out of control in connecticut. brazen thieves are caught on camera stealing more than 1500 dollars worth of kids from a grocery store. >> states like california are becoming the epicenter of other types of lawlessness. where they have basically legalized theft. >> this is so strange and crazy to see such brazen crime. because it is an internal money of moral and civil order. >> reporter i really admire named amanda mall, saw the stories. set out to check out the actual statistic for this in the atlantic. basically no evidence to support it. amanda mull joins us now. along with donna f. edwards and
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tim miller. amanda let me start with you on your piece. part of it is being drawn by these viral videos. particularly what is happening here. people can now capture folks shoplifting in a way that they couldn't before. that goes on, gets played on tv, it's out of control. then you have a lot of these retailer citing these gargantuan numbers. of what their retail losses. you decided to look. and what did you find? >> yes. i realized i saw the same numbers being cited over again. same experts being cited over again. as a journalist, when you see that happening. to me that indicates that some sort of media campaign might be a foot. which means i should look into it. so i started digging on these numbers. as far as crime statistics goes. we learned in the last two years. when you're looking at percentage of change of things. it depends on what type of
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baseline you are looking. at so in 2020, the crime statistics were unique. a lot of lower level crime. we're just not addressed in the same way. a lot of things didn't happen at the same right. because at the same case of shoplifting, store sworn open. especially in these large liberal cities for a huge portion of the year. people really change their habits. people change their everyday lives. includes people who might steal. things a lot of those storms weren't open. when you look at 2020 and look at some of the ways that police statistics of changed year on year. you are looking at changes from historic lows that are completely unprecedented in the history of policing. you are looking at numbers that are not comparable to anything. you get these really huge percentages of change that are really alarming. but they are based on bad numbers. based on like a year of life that did not exist in the same way that any other years of life has existed.
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so what happens when you look at this year's numbers on that, versus 2019, 2018, 2017. you find that theft is down. larceny is down. robberies down. property crimes in general are down. over what they were before the pandemic. but you have this really weird year of statistics that helps make things look terrifying. >> my fear headline in this goes out to the l.a. times. lapd warm of crime wave calm, but data shows theft, robberies down. that's actually nbc news. l.a. times how to help line for that is. well >> i think there's something happening here. conservative media understands the power of those images. the rise in homicide is a very real. day extremely exciting thing. policymakers have to deal with it. they are grappling it in cities
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like philadelphia, atlanta, buffalo, new york. there is nothing that fox loves more then surveillance footage of particularly black people, stealing thing. they will run that 24/7 if they can. >> i think that fox also benefited by wood is kind of a real change in san francisco. which is the city right across the bay for me. the bogeyman. where there are boarded up buildings. where there has been an increase in crime. some of it blown a little bit out of proportion. some of it really concerning. you see blow back from liberal members. see blow back from the mayor of san francisco. they fox as use that as an excuse to extrapolate this into a nationwide problem. hi back into what you are talking. which is an increase in homicides which is concerning.
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to combat that democratic politicians. when i think the right thing to do is, not play into it. by giving the republican side more fodder that can play down to voters. the new york post effect is the perfect aspect of this that's why adams did so well. what are people who are not maga people, but conservatively orient people reading the new york post, what is their perception of what's happening? part of their perception is the narrative in the post, part of it is what they are seeing in their community. and so eric i think spoke to that perception in a real way that paid off for him well. in the mayorship. i don't think that means you can't be for criminal justice reform in all this other stuff, but it does mean you have to acknowledge that as part of the political reality. >> the epidemic question. going to push us a little longer. as a democratic representative
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yourself, someone who does democratic policies. this point about reality. before you get to the policy stuff, before you get any of. i find that i can't get to get through what is actually happening. because the propaganda is so thick. just what is actually happening. that to me is what is so sticky about this question here. >> no doubt republicans are actually really good constructing a narrative that draws people in. this is one of those. the danger is, when you are basing your policy on bad data, it means you are deploying resources in all the different ways that don't actually find the crime actually really is up in some communities. emily homicides and other kinds of crimes. i worry that sometimes democrats get into this. we'll get into this mode of arguing over policy.
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but there is nothing like those videos and pictures that really drive people. we have to be careful on that. >> yes. the new york post effect is very real. across the nation. amanda mull who did great reporting on this. who's running i always enjoy. thank you. donna f. edwards and tim miller, stick around. i want to talk about this book banning bill that has a really surprising twist. stick around. stick around nyquil severe gives you powerful relief for your worst cold and flu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. nyquil severe. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine.
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oklahoma recently proposed a new bill that would allow parents to nominate books in their children's school library to be removed. and if it was removed, the book remains on the shelves, parents would receive $10,000 per day there. donna f. edwards and tim miller back to talk with me today. people propose crazy stuff in state legislators all the time. what struck me about this, the kind of personal bounty system
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that was pioneered in the texas abortion law. being sort of used copied and pasted out and other places. the anti critical race theory that movement that started, but a year ago, kind of metastasized in all kinds of ways. start to look very familiar to previous periods of american moral panic's. >> yeah. it feels like the 1990s all over again. and indeed, i think republicans are clearly going to use this quote unquote education. parental involvement. what is taught in schools, what's in libraries. as a mechanism to draw their base voters out for this election i think it is going to be really important to have a response to that. that is responsible. that is about local educators making decisions about what happens in classrooms.
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working in concert with parents. bringing resources into the classroom. and that is going to have to be a counter narrative to this, really what is an underlying narrative of race. in our school and school system >> tim when i like about this bill. somehow logical conclusion for terry mcauliffe said in that debate. said something like, i forget the words, were basically parents aren't in charge of what they learn in school. people hated that. i think was quite tone deaf. but it's also like, descriptive electric. in the sense of the inverse of that is just to give every individual parent total veto control every everything taught them in school. which, credit where this is due, with this bill does basically. but you obviously cannot run a school system that way. >> yeah. even at the time, i was saying.
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i think the democrats could views that. maybe mcauliffe could've used himself. but an outside group coming out and trying to turn this on his head. in the midst of a sorry panic. seeing these shirtless. guys at the loud and county school board. getting in fights with people. some of them, their kids weren't even in the district. this notion of, do you want that guy running your school curriculum. the idea of parents being involved in the schools curriculums everyone is for. the idea of the most crazy mega person dictating looked allowing county school system should be, is going to give a lot of parents, a lot of republican, joe biden crossovers in northern virginia, a pause. i think that in general, this is an area where the democrats need to give as good as they get in the culture war side of this. what is being proposed in oklahoma. some of the stuff around crtc's very unpopular. i think it was getting mixed up
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with some other things that are more popular amongst swing voters. but the triggers major voter, trying to ban books, not a winner. not a way for them to be dictating their kids curriculum. >> i think there's two things here. one, there is a reason the curriculum fights and banned book fights are perennial fights in politics. because they are actually sites of real conflict. between different people with different politics. different conceptions of the good. different visions of what they want their kids to learn. in a public system. where we have to adjudicate. that when you said the 1990s donna, i was remembering. i was a kid a new york city there was the heather has two mommies controversy. kids were getting children's books about a lesbian couple. this was enormous moral panic at the time. for some of the same reasons. >> it turns out that we have to
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have an argument that realizes that there is a healthy balance of parents being involved in schools, but also that professionals are making determinations about what is, not taught in the schools. we have to do this. if we don't, we are going to lose this battle on an important other culture war. donna f. edwards and tim miller. thanks for being here, have a good new year if i don't see. who knows, maybe you will be back tomorrow. that is all in for this evening, the rachel maddow show starts now. with a man interracial. good evening evening. >> hey chris, yes i know the struggle is real. enjoy the rest of your night off. thanks to you at home for joining us on this hour. rachel has the night off, but we do have a lot to get to tonight. today, the white house announcing that president biden will speak to russian president vladimir putin tomorrow. now that call was reportedly requested by vladimir putin, as russia continues to amass
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troops along ukraine's border. now, the white house repeatedly has warned russia over the last few weeks that a russian invasion of ukraine would have severe, severe diplomatic and economic consequences. what did administration official told politicaltratio official told politica will come in the midst of a, quote, moment of crisis between the two nations. we'll have a lot more on that coming up later in the show.ha but we start tonight with a moment of crisis of our own right here at home.a take a look at this map. this is a map tracking community transmission of covid across alt 50 states. blue and yellow there on the screen means low to moderate. orange means substantial. m red means high. and as you can see in this picture, every single state, every single one, is red. community transmission of covid is at the highest recorded level in every state in the country as of this night.e now, the u.s. yesterday just


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