tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC December 8, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST
>> some debt going to be held as the great american hero. >> trump's greatest defenders cashing out, as one of his colleagues diagnosis at the larger problem. >> there's two types of members of congress, performance artists, and legislators. -- >> then an automated from the january six committee to mark meadows. show up, or face charges. >> they've already brought one criminal into indictment against one of the people who refused to comply -- >> plus as the ribbons cutting begin, one republicans creative way for taking credit for a lot that no republicans voted for. >> and my interview with the artist jr about his incredible new documentary -- on all in starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, republican congressman nunes the reason he
is leaving tells you a lot about the trajectory of the modern republican party. to the old model of republicans was you stuck it out so you could reel the power of the state you could reel that power for all types of pressure this. the goal was wielding power to the service of some governing agenda that is why people got in politics, and that is less and less the case. congressman devin nunes who joined as a 29 year old, it's currently serving his tenth term is retiring to run donald trump's new grift. that is right, nunes will become ceo of the trump medium technology group which even as far as start-ups go, is particularly questionable. it is supposed to be a social media company, but in typical trump fashion right now more like a half baked idea with his name on it. also in typical trump fashion, the company is already being investigated by federal regulators. it's truly an incredible record to get your first sec investigation, before you ever
have a product. so that is where devin nunes is going, to be a professional troll for a company of professional trolls. as he puts it in this magazine, unofficial trump propagandist devin nunes makes it official. >> that is basically how we think of devin nunes, he is a trump fan to chair of the house intelligence committee back in 2017 make that bizarre middle of the night shift to the white house to warn the trump administration about the so-called unmasking of trump campaign officials who were being surveilled by intelligence agencies for their ties to foreign governments. or, you know, you may remember him as the right-wing troll who -- wanted to sue twitter the company over a few parity accounts like devin nunes this mom and devin as this cow. i just want people to know the cow account was not actually run by a cow of devin nunes. but here's the thing, nunes was
not always like this. for much of his nearly two decades in congress, he was just a normal republican representative american conservative district, conservative politics, did the normal dance of governance. worked his way up to -- back then, nunes seemed less interested in the theatrically politics. he once referred to the tea party government shutdown over bomb we care, where ted cruz pushed them to do that as lemmings with suicide vests. most revealing though, listen to this, is a quote, a 2015 interview with journalist ryan lizzo. who nunes would later sue over -- i used to spend 90% of my response time over people who called emails or sent a letter such as, i really like this bill. and they really believe in it because they heard about it through one of the groups that it belongs to, but their view was based on actual legislation. 10% were about chemtrails from airplanes are poisoning me to every other conspiracy theory that's out there. and that has essentially
flipped on his head. it's dramatically changed politics and politicians, and what they are doing. yeah,. no kidding did. that's a remarkable comments from 2015. before donald trump doesn't should take over the party, and nunes would go on fall maga can chill friendly. there is something revealing about the choice to quit and become a professional troll. he is not the newcomer to congress, he has been there for two decades, he worked his way up, he started young, he's still young now for someone in his position. he was chair of house intelligence. and while redistricting in california means his seat could potentially be in jeopardy, -- stick it out and be reelected he may be positioned to take over the house -- committee next term. that is if republicans win the house which many expect they will. now arguably, --
second most powerful position in the house and enormously consequential job. it does all the tax legislation. he gets the control how trillions of dollars of federal money is directed. back in the day, james pope and miller fell more, you already knew that rate didn't you. or larger than life political figures like dan rostenkowski, charlie wrangle, these are titans. it is basically the and goal for a long line of legislators who want to reshape the federal government in their own ideological image, or just run a big patron operation where they got to give other goodies to various interest groups. again, even that kind of old-fashioned soft corruption, which is as old as politics, even that isn't so enticing to the contemporary republican party anymore. increasingly, what they want in their hearts, they want to be
essentially professional trolls. talking heads, podcasters, content creators. which again, don't get me wrong, i don't have anything against content creators and talking heads, but you are in government. there are much more concerned with posting on twitter then they are doing the work of legislation or running amendments. an observation that to that and came from an unlikely source last night, take a look at republican congressman dan crenshaw during an event in texas. >> there is performance artists, there is legislators. the performance artists are the ones you get all the attention. the ones you think are more conservative, because they know how to stay slogans. they know how to recite the lines -- that voters want to hear. we have good flus in our midst. up here, not in this room, that's not what i mean. i mean in the conservative movement.
lie after lie after lie. >> and to be clear, that point while incredibly eschew, is a little hypocritical coming from congressman crenshaw who has done a fair share of his own partisan trolling. he loves performance enough to released an ad like this last year, ahead of the georgia elections. >> here's the situation on the ground. to patriots down there, senator purdue. great fighters with a great message. they just need a little backup. >> last question, who do you want to? bring >> bring everyone. by the way that video ends with crenshaw landing on top of an antifa truck and pretending to punch the windshield out.
so again, he may be less than reliable narrator here about who's theorist and who's not, but his point fundamentally about his republican colleagues the spot on. a lot of them are not interested in the job they have, the active governing, of being a representative of people in the government. those republicans who do care about that, are a dying breed. they are leaving. republican legislators -- like of missouri and congressman adam kinzinger of illinois, they are both on their way out because there is no will left in their party for the actual stuff of legislating. i have to say, it bears repeating, i have to say those politics are bad. they cause a lot of damage. a lot of bad votes, a lot of bad bills, i'm not endorsing what they were doing or what they stand for, but when i'm saying is they were doing something legibly governing related in some sense. something that is more in line with what governing is or is
there anything -- new current wave of republicans are doing. which is why in a new piece in the atlantic, questions if there is any place in the party for congressman like michigan and rob peter meijer. meyer voted to certify the results of the 2021 election, and for donald trump's second impeachment and seems at least normally committed to governance. -- does not believe he is standing alone against republican trolls like marjorie taylor greene or georgia or paul gosar of his arizona. quote, convinced there are more republicans like him national pragmatic by the time the party has taken then there are like gosar because they have the -- knowledge to engage in tactics they can reasonably debate like adults, they can take the high road they can play the long game. all evidence would point to minus optimism brewing dangerously close to naivete, but i guess for the sake of democracy he is right. tim alberta as a staffer at the atlantic where he wrote that new piece on congressman peter meijer, and he joins me now.
i was struck by this profile because i do think there is kind of a throwback situation, and i want to some ways take this out of the realm of ideology because i don't think actually this sort of what people stand for and believe in is really what we are talking about here. it seems to me that there is just an approach to the job. so the conception of what it means to be a member of congress that is being sort of stopped by -- that just fundamentally to the idea that meyer and other republican legislators have about going and doing the job of being a republican member of congress. >> chris, i don't know how much time you have but we could have a long time discussion on that subject. i've written a lot about it. listen, everything is that there is right. i distinctly remember sitting with paul ryan and couple weeks after he retired from congress
and, this was in wisconsin in his own town he had sort of just begun to process -- you know the last few years with trump's party. whatever you think of paul ryan's politics, his legislative record over the years his proposals on medicare, all of these things, paul ryan spent 20 years in congress climbing the traditional way of writing policy, working on committees, accumulating power the way that one was expected to be in congress. rarely seen on camera, or news, or doing the top tell circuit tour. wasn't a social media guy. basically gained all of his, influencing congress by -- became eventually became speaker -- when we were talking about this took an unsolicited detour at one point started ranting about,
gates by name. and a couple of others. i'm talking about how basically the entertainer complex of politics had been so dominant and how this was going to get much worse before it got better. so when you placed a guy like you peter meijer into context of all of that, he is in many ways the antithesis of this, he has a very smart earnest guy who thought when he was elected to congress that he would be in the majority, and that the -- freshman class like marjorie taylor greene, that they were just going to be a very vocal minority when in fact it has been the exact opposite. he finds himself in a decided minority and someone who actually came to congress to try and legislate. >> and i think we are watching this dynamic play out right now with beau barr and, marjorie taylor greene, and gosar, where day by day it seems like they are accruing the power of the party to themselves. you know mccarthy is now scared to cross them the way he is
scared to cost trump. it just means that a, annex lost a freshman members of congress will be 20 like them. if the midterms go the way we think they might, and particularly the redistricting, it will be what it means increasingly to be a young freshman member of the republican house caucus. >> yeah, look, i think some of this obviously stems from -- a fundamental problem that you have been looking at here is when congress no longer legislate in a meaningful way and certainly when congress ceases to legislate in a meaningful bipartisan way, then really all there is left for an in minority party is to entertain. is to obstruct. and really, if you think about the ways in which a party relates to, or urns proximity to relevancy, and its influence, there could be a case made that
even up until recently, at least recently, what's the republican party in the obama years was doing, again, not the fridges, but its relevancy was earned by -- fights over health care. over immigration. overtaxation. right? these rallies policies. what you see now, increasingly, is that influence, that relevancy is gained not through fighting on any of the policy. we have seen almost none of that in the early days of the biden administration. it's all on these lowest quantum in denominator culture war issues. a lot of it isn't even real cultural war outrage, it is phony manufactured for profit outrage that is meant to raise money and rile up the base. very effective. >> tim alberta. doing a wonderful job of this iteration. thanks for joining us. >> sure. >> mark meadows, finds himself
in a bit of a pickle. his big book tour money grab called as after he revealed the former president tested positive for covid while before we knew. a detail that reportedly infuriated donald trump. today, mark meadows offered something of an olive branch to the former president. refusing now to testify before the january six committee. that is meadows willing to risk ten contempt charges to get back in trump's good graces? a new ultimatum from house committee after this. as 7 days try fast acting biotic gummies from align. the #1 doctor recommended probiotic brand.
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>> so why complain? i mean, honestly at this point, if it's totally fake, this is just so sure trail. which is. then why with the rest of us have any kind of obligation to play along with it? honestly? >> we should it, but congress has the issue to issue criminal contempt. normally they don't go anyway on such charades of this. but the department of justice is fully in line. they've already brought one criminal indictment against one of the people that refused to comply. >> that was john eastman, the guy who brought up the infamous coop memo on how vice president mike pence could steal the election from don -- that's him grudgingly telling tucker carlson last night that well, you have to comply with a subpoena from the house
committee investigating january six. that however, is not the case with trump's former chief of staff, mark meadows. who today announced he basically changed his mind. he will not cooperate with the committee investigating january six. and appear at a deposition tomorrow. that flip-flop might have something to do with the ex presidents reported fury over medals new book after an excerpt lead last week revealing at upper cover-up surrounding trump's coronavirus diagnosis. the thing is, back in october, less than two months ago, trump had nothing but good thing to say about meadows book in his luck. telling his followers to preorder your copy now and. that it would make an incredible christmas present. saying it's a fantastic book, and mark meadows and his wonderful wife that we are great people. that's nice. in fact, the schooling post is still up right now on the internet. but over the weekend, the daily beast reported trump fumed over how meadows was -- stupid for what he revealed in his book and that quote, trump's displeasure towards meadows was volcanic. today, the new york times maggie berman reports that a
source close to trump says he hates meadow's book and feels betrayed by him. while, wish he could take that word back. now it looks like meadows will have to choose between appeasing his former boss and avoiding contempt for a. following his investment today, the committee released a statement saying tomorrow's deposition, which was schedule and mr. meadows requests, will go for it as planned. if indeed mr. meadows refuses to appear, the select committee will be left no choice but to advance content proceedings. katie benner follows the criminal charges. is philip rucker the white house bureau chief for the washington post. they both join me now. i've got to say, let me start with you philip, this entire dynamic is a little bit of a head-scratcher. i mean, meadows writes a book with a startling, shocking revelation. that the president tested positive for covid 60s before announcing it. spent six days circulating among people, very strong circumstantial evidence that he was the patient zero for the
white house cluster. and was at a debate. and what did you think was going to happen, buddy? and trump blurb say, another all angry about it. how did this come about? how did this come about? >> chris, that's not even the worst of. it because meadows in his book also reports about trump's basic lack of strength. his physical condition when he had covid. how he was in the hospital in a t-shirt with his here messed up and his face a very peculiar few. i'm completely out of energy and feeling like he didn't have the strength to get out of bed. at his certainly not the image that trump wants anybody working for him projecting to the public and that's exactly what meadows wrote in the book. so, it has infuriated the former president, as you might imagine. now meadows is apparently trying to get back in trump's good graces by refusing to cooperate with the january six committee. but i'm not sure that is going to work with trump. >> yeah, the causation here, again, this is correlation that were refuting across to.
katie, i want to plea you meadows giving his own justification and then ask what the ramifications could be, given that as he said, they've done one criminal referral. take a listen. do we have that? yeah, there we go. >> we found that in spite of our cooperation and sharing documents with them, they had issued, and the noes to us, without even a courtesy call, a shoot a subpoena to third-party carrier trying to get information. at this point, we feel like it's best that we discontinue to honor the executive privilege and it looks like the courts are gonna have to weigh in on this. onna have to weigh in on this >> the executive privilege argument seems a little tougher when you've just revealed a book about your insight deliberations with the president. >> absolutely. yes, that's true. and also when other former
officials from the trump administration have spoken to several of the issues the committee would like to speak with you about. it does make it tricky. one thing though is that by holding him in criminal contempt are voting to hold him in criminal contempt, if the house is successful and the justice department does bring up before grand jury, mark meadows could face deep finds. he could face jail time. that doesn't mean that actually ever have to give over any information. so, he could be punished, but he would still not have to speak to the committee. if they held him in civil contempt, it would be a little bit different. generally speaking, if the court finds your in civil contempt, the punitive measures do not stop until you comply. it's a little bit different. it's almost as if he's making the calculation to be held in criminal contempt. perhaps face jail time, perhaps face fines. when actually have to give over information. >> yeah, and we know that steve bannon's trial, which he's now been indicted for criminal contempt. the summer, there sometime. and obviously delay is at the front of mind for all the people with this.
there's also news, philip, about someone else in the circle. marc short, who strikes me is an interesting plan all this. because he's not really a trump guy. he's more of a pence guy. he is cooperating with the house committee that's investigating the january 6th riot. that may, it seems to me, be an interesting and fruitful lead for the committee. ea for the committee. >> it certainly could. because marc short is a very -- fully cooperate with the committee because he was with pence on gender. six but he was with a lot of those meetings at the white house that the former president was in and the days leading up to the six. he was privy to the arguments that eastman and others were making in favor of the coup, effectively, and he could pinpoint for the committee who was pushing which buttons in and around the president to try to create the events of january six. and one on that, maggie haberman of new york times reported in the last couple of hours, that short, although he's cooperating with the committee, is also coordinating
his responses with the trump team. so, any documents he's providing to the committee, he's intending to let the trump team know ahead of time and coordinate with them. so it's not clear exactly whether shorts cooperation is going to be a sort of full, open component that the committee would like it to be. >> and there's the question, katie, about what doj does. they've got bannon. the committee is talking about a possible contempt citation for jeffrey clark. there's a possibility that now hangs over mark meadows. those would be, i think, a little slightly trickier cases for the department of justice. just on the facts of law, then the bannon case was, which was the most clear cut of the group, it seems. it seems >> absolutely. because bennett was not working at the white house at the time, so even though the question of whether or not you could put somebody in contempt despite their claims of executive privilege, if that person was a private citizen, it did seem to weigh against bannon. in this case, mark meadows, he
was donald trump's chief of staff. he was the white house chief of staff. he can very plausibly say this is covered by executive privilege and i really cannot speak to these questions. keep in mind, he could come before the committee and at least hear their questions. and explain why he doesn't feel comfortable answering certain increase but. but that doesn't seem like the path he's going to take. >> the other thing you could always do under the constitution to see you invoke your rights against self incrimination, which appears to be what clark was planning on doing. there's been some discussion about others may be doing that. that anyone of itself is notable when people do that. so, we will keep honoring that as. well katie benner and philip rucker i, thank you both. >> thank you. >> coming up, republicans railed against the pandemic relief bill earlier this year. passing without a single, not one, republican vote. but now if anything is happening. you're trying to take credit for. that's next.
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rescue plan that president biden signed a law in march was the first legislative -- very leon and now we are seeing the effects of it across the country. that money goes to help also to folks in all kinds of places. it would have been truly astonishing about the whole thing is that every single republican voted against the legislation. lots of them have been trying to take credit for all the good things than it, something president biden enjoyed pointing out back in may. >> even my republican friends in congress, not a single one of them voted for the rescue plan, i'm not going to embarrass any one of them but i have here a list -- [laughs] of how back in their districts they are bragging about the rescue plan. >> there is mississippi republican roger wicker who before even biden signed the bill independent rests operatives have won 28.6 billion dollars worth of targeted relief. despite voting against the bill. in june rhonda santa signs
florida's largest budget ever saying quote, and this is very rich, part of the reason we're here is because we've had good stewards in the legislator who span conservatively and responsibly. but also the fact that florida has schools, open businesses, open and people have the right to work. he declined to mention the bill was boosted with ten billion dollars in federal covid money. last month arizona's republican governor doug doocy announced he was investing 100 million dollars to expand a high speed broadband in the state. if you read into just the second paragraph of the press relief, you hear the core funding comes from the american rescue plan act. the best one yet, you really have to give it to him, it came this week from republican governor of ohio marked a one. while democrats work to defund the police, we're investing 250 million and our law enforcement and first responders. a point he reiterated during a press conference. >> this is clearly not the time
to defund the police. this is time to find the police, and to find them in new and creative way. >> you can probably guess where this is going by now. according to the governor's own press relief, the new and creative way he is funding the police is by using the money ohio got from the american rescue plan. you imagine how shameless you have to be to not only take credit for funding, that you and your party did everything to prevent, but to go one step further and attack the party, the democrats, that actually got ohio that money you are taking credit for. hold on governor mike dewine. n governor mike dewine theyyyy're loooaded! turns out, michael buffer speaks like that all the time. and it turns out the general is a quality insurance company that's been saving people money for nearly 60 years. and in this corner, coconuuuut shriiiiiimp! for a great low rate,
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testing. last week presidential biden announced his plans have private insurance cover the cost of our home test, meaning you can buy a testament to cost and your insurance will reimburse you for it. that will be fine. and while that is better than nothing, it's not the easiest thing. which is why white house press secretary jen psaki was asked about it yesterday. >> why not just make them free and give them out and have them available everywhere? >> should we just don't want every american? >> maybe. >> then what happens if every american has one test. how much does that cost. and what does that cost after that? >> all i know is that the country seem to be making them available in greater quantities, for less money. >> i think we share the same objective which is to make them less expensive, and more accessible. >> for the record i don't think sending every american one covid test makes any sense. we should send every american ten tests, every month. why is that so crazy. in the uk you can mail order seven test at a time, each day, for no charge. insignia bore the ministry of
health has -- mailed seven test. >> canada sending free tests to businesses and organizations. >> today alone in the u.s. there or over -- gathering with our loved ones safely the only answer is widespread easy rapid testing. the more we can test, the more we can control the spread of this virus and get back to normal. sara cliff is an investigative reporter for the new york times, she wrote about the new biden administration's -- piece called route free rapid test legwork will be required. first, let's start with the cost of the test here. this is the thing you report on as well as anyone in america. which is why american health care and it's many different facets cost more than other places. and the rapid tests seem to be another example, why is that? >> yeah. this is pretty emblematic of the american health care system. in this case it boils down to some different reasons, we just
haven't seen either the administration who have been in charge during the pandemic, not a trump administration, not the biden administration to prioritize rapid testing. they tended to favor pcr testing which is more accurate, but comes with a longer turnaround time which is not exactly what a lot of people are looking for. you just haven't seen the fda prioritize these applications from jarred makers who want to get these out. there hasn't been as much funding, or purchasing it. the government has essentially sent a signal that we are just not that interested in these tests. jasmine left up to the private market and as we know, when it comes up to the private market test makers can charge whatever they want. we see these tests costing upwards of $30 at the drugstore, that is much much more expensive than where you could find them as little as one euro. it is a very stark difference. >> i think part of my understanding, is the competition issue to. it seems like the fda has only
approved a few of these, and other places there are more folks in the market. even the market competition is doing a better job driving the cost down than in the u.s. where -- it's not like there's a ton of different ones, i think there's only two i've come across. >> yeah there's really only a handful. there was another one that was proof last month that should be coming on to the market soon. but there is generally been a reluctance and a slowness to approving these tests in the united states. i think the hesitance has been around having tests that are not accurate, that could produce false positives, false negatives, and a preference for tests that are more accurate. i think there is also a case where having widespread testing is going to catch people when they are infectious. these antigen tests are where there is really best for. it's going to be a real game-changer. i think you are saying, chris, and the uk does makers know that the government is buying lots of these tests.
anyone can go on the website and order sentiment of them to their home. in the u.s. it's harder to get approved by the fda, it's a less appealing place to come and try and sell the covid test. that means are people who have gotten approved, they can charge higher prices because they are facing less competition in the market. >> i think it's funny as they, that because i do think there has been a weird stigma around these tests. in the beginning partly because -- this specificity is the term is lower than pcr tests. they are less accurate. but they are still pretty accurate. and as a tool, and people go back to work and there is a test that pops up. you have to test everyone in the household. we have tested everyone and i'm lucky enough to be in a situation where we have the dollars and resources to pay these high prices for the tests. but there is all kinds of situations, particularly with kids in school, where if a case pops up in a circle, or among a chain of people you have been with. the first thing you want to do is test.
you also want to do it prophylactically before gathering with people, like we did at thanksgiving. it seems like those are obvious means of controlling spread. >> yeah. no i agree with you. i have a preschooler, he has become very accustomed we call it a tickle test. we use them in the same way. it sounds like your family has to. we go to cvs if they have them stop, because they often run short. so i stock up when i can. luckily i have the financial means to do that. but they are expensive, the two packs of the abbott test or go for around $25. i think you can find them for $14 in places. it feels very emblematic that the american health care system we are once again in a place where folks in your can get these free, easily, through the government. we are left to our own devices and still -- the way these are going to be reimbursed through insurance to make sure that we get our test, we get the cars covered, it will be a lot of legwork and continue to be legwork for
consumers to get quote on quote, free covid tests. >> i mean, i personally like interactions with interest. particularly for reimbursement. i find that a very enjoyable way to spend time. so that is a nice benefit here. how do you think the white house has gotten some -- look they are trying to do what they can within the system. i think we have some previous severe pushback on that sake exchange, and her saying today that her focus is -- doctors office community testing site or home, we are continue to scale up our testing programs to meet demand and ensure people who want tests are getting tests. i hope you continue to see that go up. it will be ever crucial this winter. well sarah kliff, as always thank you. don't go anywhere my interview with legendary street artist jr whose life like installations are the subject of a new documentary which airs this friday on msnbc joins me now live in studio next.
showcasing his art all over the world. nobody knows his really more what he really looks like. he's not only as jr and he accepts his striking black and white photos on walls, buildings or whatever huge real world canvas he can find. going up in an immigrant family in the outskirts of paris, his first four into art was graffiti. he found a camera left behind at a train station he expanded to photography and eventually combine the two interests. >> at that time, i was shooting a short film. ♪ ♪ ♪ i was just pacing in the neighborhood.
so they said, why don't you take a photo of me. so, the, i take that photo. everybody looked at and say, you had a gun. you were there, it was my camera. that's crazy. we just a whole day of taking photos. ♪ ♪ ♪ we were there with all those photos, didn't know what to do with them. we looked around and there were all those buildings. covered, let's just do it. >> that clip comes from jr new documentary, "paper & glue", which has his first tv premier this right on msnbc. the film reflects on his trajectory from the projects of the international scene. it also -- the fellows of rio de janeiro to the u.s. mexico border, even inside the california super max president.
throughout the documentary,'s our serves the purpose of theme of people are often overlooked. jr the artist and director of "paper & glue" joins me now. good to have you here. >> thank you. >> i enjoy the documentary and i enjoy the story of the discovery of creation of how you started doing this. first with a camera. how did you learn technique? what was the process that you improved from this found objects you had? you are already doing graffiti, we had a visual sense. how did you learn how to use the device? how did i >> don't think if i'vr learned. i think if someone can give me a course, i would absolutely love it. because i never really figured it out. as long as it looked like an image i can print, that seems good to me. so, i was not using light, i didn't understand the depth of feel. none of that. i just wanted to share something and portraits, piecing them was the main thing. so the peace step with cover, all the wrong side of the image.
>> right, because it's so big and rough and in your face that has its own visual thank. >> exactly, i don't really do commercial photography. so, it was in a product for me. no one was there to say hey, this is overexposed. it looked good and the people loved it, i was like, good. remember, i shared all my photograph -- serves like if you walk industry and doing european and everybody is watching, there's no privacy. i've already shared everything public. so people will come tonight and see what looks like -- they will tell you. >> i really like the pasting element, too. because it's the oldest way of posting something. >> yeah. >> i remember growing up in new york city, it used to be construction sites when there was a show in town, there was a new album coming up. this visual field that you don't see as much anymore. but there's something incredibly distinct about the way that looks. >> yeah, definitely. also, the one thing you need to, i've been 20 years pacing in
the street, nobody looks at you. nobody out there. so, that was my biggest -- i just be in the street and nobody pays attention. >> we had a spray? can >> someone's gonna come up to. pacing looks like -- oh, let him do the job. so, i could just go in the middle of the day at russia in front of anybody and people would not suspect that this was anything. >> this image we have behind us is of -- which is one of the projects in the documentary, the favelas in real regal antique peoples portraits and then put them up. i mean obviously, one of the most striking things about the neighborhoods have this big differential about where the rich neighborhoods are, where the poor neighborhoods are. which tend to be a pie. exactly. here, it's all faces of women in this community. the neighborhood is actually the first favela, the first slum of brazil. it's in rio de janeiro. basically when people from the
city who live right in front of that hill saw suddenly there was not only violent people in there but actually regular people, women, people who fight for their life every day. which represent 80% of the committee. people know that drug dealing that represents a small minority. but still that's the only when you hear about media. >> yeah, and if you're in a neighborhood in real that's down and fairly affluent, those very strong messages of that's a forbidden zone. definitely do go up there. stay away from there. it might as well the another planet. completely. but the truth is, when this happened and suddenly everybody could see those eyes on the hill, then the women came down the hill and the people came and interview them. if it was their story. what they wanted to share. how they wanted to represent their community. >> i found the work you did in this -- really beautiful and inspiring. i want to play a little bit. you went into the super max prison, did a very cool project which we can see it there. this is one of the incarcerated folks who was there talking
about. take a listen. t. take a listen. i >> was raised here. i never really imagined when you could get out and do something that you never even going to believe. the more we think like that, the more we're going to be able to obtain those streams. people want to leave this place. from way up there. you know what i mean? we can see it. we want to be that big from way up there. and it doesn't take much. just a little hope, a little effort and you've got it. >> on paper. >> and some. paper >> so you went into this prison and each of the peoples projects and, how do the project involved? >> the portrait you're seeing behind you -- people incarcerated when their kids. but also victims from the violence of people incarcerated there or other presents. and also guards. there's a free app actually you can download called jr me with. you can hear the stories of
each shingle wet. what happened there is that suddenly, even their own family started listening to their stories. because i let them as long as they want to talk. so some of the stories are 30, 40 minutes. so they reconnected with our family's. but also the guards listen to the stores as started seeing them as human also. and the warden also saying why there are those guys steal here. so everyone who see in this actual image, which is in the super max prison, got moved to level three within the next six months. and one cell of them got freed after that because they re-tried their case. so it shows the powerful of art within a super max prison, goes a very long way. because no one has ever had that access to actually -- because of the excuse of our, listen to them. >> there is a project that you did which might be something that people are familiar with, a very iconic image. which is u.s., mexico border. which i love. when i saw it it's such an amazing combination of --
is so striking. it's both whimsical and kind of comical almost. but carry something very deep in it. the difference is science between this child and the child glaring down, who is that child? they're on the wall. >> he lives actually in the house right there that you see behind. i met him there because i was asking the people who was that land there and they met this family and they did pay attention to the kid at first. >> he's on the mexican side? >> yes, on the mexican side. then i realize, wheat, he's a year old kid. he's looking at the wall every day because he lives there. but is that wall for him? is that separation? is it offense? it's just a kid, it's like any wall. he should be the one i should piece there. because what does a kid have to do with politics? you know? he's naive. he doesn't know. he's just seeing the world and standing in front of the fence left there. so, his mom is very excited, his father to, grandparents,
everybody there. then i installed it, but it was all illegal. we rebuild the scaffolding three times the side of the wall, no one said anything. the pace of him. suddenly, a track that attention of helicopters. and then strangely enough, no one came and arrested us. so elected there. i rented the scaffolding for a month. a four-month actually, people would come their, take photos in front of it. on each side. people would see each other through the fence. so what happened was incredible is that people would pass the phones through the fence to another family so that they can take a photo of them, and vice versa. when the border patrol should've alerted every single one of them, they didn't. took none of them. and i was following that on social media analysts like while, those people aren't getting arrested. in these that a border patrol are looking from a distance saying, let it be, it's our. >> jr it's really a fantastic piece of work. it's really wonderful to meet you. and have you here. don't miss "paper & glue" it. premieres on television this friday at 10 pm only annex in bc. that is all in on this tuesday
night. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> it was fantastic, chris. and the zinc. well then >> thanks at-home for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. in april 1960, in memphis, tennessee, the reverent dr. martin luther king the man who killed him was james earl ray, seen here in handcuffs. james earl ray was a rabid segregationist. he was a real racist. he was kicked out of the army in the late '40s. he'd been in and out of prison for years. he'd actually escaped from prison in missouri, in 1967, the year before he killed king. he spent time in mexico. spent time in california. by 1968, he was reportedly intoxicated with the reactionary campaign of george wallace, the segregationist alabama governor, who ran for president in 1968 on an anti-civil rights,