tv Alex Witt Reports MSNBC December 4, 2021 10:00am-11:00am PST
a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we're following breaking news out of michigan where just hours ago james and jennifer crumbley, the parents of the suspect in the michigan high school shooting, were arraigned in court on four counts of involuntary manslaughter. both pled not guilty to all charges as a judge set their bonds at $500,000 each. >> these charges are very, very serious. there's no question about that. there is a -- there's court does have some concern about the flight risk along with the public safety given the circumstances that occurred yesterday and the fact that the defendants did have to be apprehended. >> james and jennifer crumbley were arrested early this morning in detroit following an hours' long manhunt prompting new reaction from the prosecution and denial from the defense.
>> instead, they fled, and they sought multiple attempts to hide their location and were eventually tracked down after they parked their car somewhere, a witness saw it, and the entire fugitive apprehension team with multiple other law enforcement agencies went into a vacant building and searched it from top to bottom, and these two individuals were found locked somewhere in a room hiding. >> last night and throughout the day, we were in contact with our clients. this were scared. they were terrified. they were not at home, they were figuring out what to do getting finances in order. >> their son, 15-year-old ethan crumbley is accused of killing four students and injuring several others in a school shooting on tuesday. that community still reeling as thousands gathered last night to mourn the loss of those teenage victims. hana st. juliana, tate myre,
madisyn baldwin and justin shilling. nbc's shaquille brewster is joining me from pontiac, michigan. welcome back. just a few hours ago the big debate inside the courthouse is whether those parents should be allowed bail at all. >> reporter: that's right, and the judge ultimately staten island -- decided to go with the prosecution setting that bail at $500,000. much of that explanation had to do with what you saw in the past 24 hours. after that noon press conference there was an arraignment scheduled for 4:00 p.m. yesterday where we were expecting to see these suspects for their first court appearance. that never happened. it was a be on the lookout and then a manhunt with the u.s. marshals, the fbi and the county sheriff before those suspects were apprehended. i want to take you inside the courtroom. this was all virtual. i want to take you inside that
debate that was happening between the defense attorneys and the prosecution. listen here. >> last night and throughout the day, we were in contact with our clients. they were scared. they were terrified. they were not at home. they were figuring out what to do getting finances in order. there is absolutely no doubt, but our clients were absolutely going to turn themselves in. it was just a matter of logistics. >> nobody needs permission. these defendants did not need my permission, and they didn't need law enforcement permission to go to the court and turn themselves in, go to the police department, the sheriff's department and turn themselves in. to suggest that this -- anyone is somehow using this incident to create press, there's a lot of attention here because four children were murdered. >> reporter: and their response to the death of those four children, the prosecutor charged them with four counts of that intentional or four counts of
that unintentional manslaughter. and i think one thing to point out is that the prosecutor was saying these are felony counts and it's actually involuntary manslaughter, i was stumbling with that, that they were charged with. those are felony counts. those were serious counts. that goes into the idea of why it turned into a full scale manhunt when they didn't turn themselves in yesterday afternoon. that is what the prosecution has to be dealing with. you mentioned the community has still been going through that grieving process. funerals will continue to happen through the weekend into next week. that vigil happened last night where you saw a big group of people come downtown. this is the community that wants to focus on the four students who lost their lives in tuesday's shooting, and the three other people who are still in the hospital, alex. >> i'm sure they do want to focus on that. that is pretty tragic and hard to get past. thank you so much for that. now for the latest on the investigation oakland county
sheriff michael brew chard is joining me. i know it's a really hard time, i see it plainly in your face as well and listen to you talk about this on a personal note, it's got to be tough. as we talk about the professional approach here, are there details you can share with us about how you got those parents back. how closely coordinated, sir, were you with the detroit p.d. when that manhunt was underway? >> super closely coordinated. the chief is a friend and, actually, we've been talking this morning about a lot of the different logistics. we have a close, close partnership with detroit, with the fbi, with the u.s. marshal service. we actually had the border patrol, helicopter involved. there were all sorts of partnerships for michigan state police, so many we can't even mention. we work extremely well together, local, state, and federal, and as soon as the fact of the matter was that they were in the wind, at least not turning
themselves in, we applied every leverage we could, got it out, and obviously the conclusion we got in no small part because of that cooperation and especially the detroit police department, big kudos to them. >> absolutely. apprehension the key there. let me ask you about the three defendants all of whom are now in your jail. can you describe their demeanor? >> they're not talking much to us on a number of levels. obviously sullen, but not a lot of conversation. we have them in my jail all in separate and segregated spots keeping close eye on them. >> yeah, when you say sullen, elaborate a bit on that. is there sadness? does there -- i mean, sullen indicates to me a level of defiance. is there any remorse being expressed? >> we've not seen any remorse. i don't know whether the sullenness is from being caught or whether it's from other emotions that are going on, but
they haven't expressed to us. >> are they able to see each other and communicate with each other? are they closely housed? no? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. >> so you've said that ethan crumbley was intent on killing as many people as he could. so how exactly was he stopped? >> well, we have been sadly because we knew that this was a trend across the country and world training extensively both with our agencies, the oakland county sheriff's office and actually, many, many years ago i called every police chief in our county together, and we established a group called oak tack, and began training every police agency in the county on active shooter protocols with the primary mission of going in immediately, no staging, no waiting, going in immediately and seeking out the gunfire, seeking out the threat and stopping the threat because every second you pause or wait can be another victim, and so
that's exactly what happened. our deputies entered the building and within two to three minutes of them arrive on scene they had the suspect in custody, who still had 18 rounds of live ammunition. lives were saved from that training, that practice, and that effort on behalf of our deputies, and i couldn't be more proud of the way they went in and did exactly what i asked them to do, which is really a difficult thing. they have to go past very panicked, sometimes hurt kids because they have to find the active danger so we don't end one more of them. that's a very difficult thing and a human emotion. and then the second thing we trained with the school as we have with a lot of schools on what to do should there be an active threat, and they exercised that routine really well. they went into lockdown and we saw that by evidence inside the school where doors and windows into the classroom were shot but
not breached, where barricades were enacted and doors were put into lockdown status, so all of this remained in the hall. still deadly, still incredibly tragic, but that also, i believe, reduced the number. >> so you mentioned ethan being found with 18 rounds of ammunition. we also know, sheriff, that there was an incident prior to the shooting in which a teacher observed him looking at his phone in class, and he was looking at ammunition on that phone, but he's not legally old enough to buy it, right? so where did he get it? >> well, obviously his parents had to purchase it. no, he can't legally buy ammunition. he can't legally possess or own a pistol. >> what about the search of his home. can you describe the kinds of things you were looking for when you went there tuesday night? did that extent into wednesday at all and share anything that you did find that you think is
helpful? >> well, we obviously seized a number of things. we have a pretty decent sized tally sheet. we were looking at anything that may be evidentiary in value to how this played out, who may be culpable, both digital or physical evidence, and so that was what was seized from that home. i can't really get into the evidence because at this point we're in a handoff mode to the prosecutor for trial, and we don't want to jeopardize any of that. >> okay. let me ask you about one thing, though, that did offer a level of discrepancy today in the arraignment that we heard. the prosecutor said that the handgun was stored in a manner to allow access by the minor child. defense lawyers are saying it was locked. so there's a discrepancy there. was it a gun lock? it the firearm itself that was secured behind some sort of a lock? can you describe that? >> we have no evidence -- excuse me -- that it was locked, none whatsoever. >> okay.
well, that's plain and simple. the investigators are working on how the parents managed to elude arrest and who might have helped them along the way. what can you tell us about the charges that may still be failed related to this part of the investigation? >> you know, it's obviously still ongoing on a lot of levels, but it appears as if when at the moment they weren't actually suspects, it was just around the time of the search warrant that was investigating their son that hay left and went to unknown locations and ultimately ended up in detroit. now, what we are actively looking at and working in close partnership with our partners in detroit, i just talked to the chief, we certainly believe that there may be something else that is potentially forthcoming about someone assisting them to be in that location. >> okay, the parents certainly in custody now, but how were they allowed to allude in the first place? you were standing right next to
the prosecutor on thursday when she said that a charging decision was coming in 24 hours, that would happen on friday. is it normal for surveillance to begin when charges are being considered? >> well, we were already doing workup packets on them just in case when there was the potential. we already had begun some processes that we had the availability to do to look for them before any warrants were issued. understand that a lot of our real tools only come after warrants were issued. we were already looking for them in a different kind of manner, our full on fugitive activity goes before warrants are issued. we are already looking for them and where they may be or may be headed as early as wednesday, so -- but we did not have a line on where they were or have any kind of surveillance on them because we didn't know where they were at that point, at the point where they apparently
left, again, it's all part of the investigation, it's before there was even any focus on them. >> sheriff, you have offered high praise for how the folks responded to the school shooting including a couple of minutes ago on this broadcast, but what do you make, sir, of the school officials being alarmed enough to summon the parents on tuesday morning and insist on immediate counseling? i i think they said within 48 hours for their child but then allowing the parents to say no and walk away and just send ethan back to class. >> well, obviously that's super sad for us on a lot of levels. we always encourage school districts, businesses wherever, if they have anything of concern bring us in. we'd rather check out a thousand nothings than miss one real deal. we have protocols very often sadly that we utilize in these kinds of situations. in fact, the day after this we received information, a tip that a child had threatened the school. we were brought in, we
investigated it. we arrested the child, and then after that happens we always do a follow-on search of the house in communication with the parents to look for access and availability of weapons. if we arrested somebody the day after that in a different district on the same kind of thing, that's the kind of intervention that happens when we're brought in and we see something of concern and sadly, we weren't brought in on that particular day. >> yeah. the oxford school superintendent put out a video statement on thursday night. here's a little part of that. let's take a listen. >> there's been a lot of talk about the student that was apprehended, that he was, you know, called up to the office and all that kind of stuff. no discipline was warranted. there are no discipline records at the high school. >> how do you interpret this?
>> well, i obviously don't know what he means by discipline. it could be that, you know, he couldn't be put into detention within the classroom or there was removal of certain kinds of activities in the school. i'm not sure what he means by discipline. certainly we at that point would have had conversations with him with the parents. we have a protocol to make sure the scene is safe so we believe that weapon was already in school. that would have triggered us to try to determine if, in fact, there was any weapons or not and make that school safe and that scene safe. so discipline or not, it's mostly protocol and notification. again, if we can hammer any message home to any future prevention methodology, it's talk more, not less. never assume something's not a real threat. share it. we intervened where a 6-year-old mentioned they were going to shoot up a school and no one
took it for granted and said that can't be true, it's a 6-year-old. we intervened and caught the young child with a firearm on the way to school. >> oakland county sheriff, michael bouchard you have a tough job some days. thank you very much for your time, i appreciate you talking to us here on msnbc. best of luck. new developments today in the coronavirus pandemic, more than 20 people across at least 11 states have tested positive for the omicron variant. the patients range in age, vaccination status, as well as travel history, but none has developed a severe case so far. meanwhile meanwhile, omicron shares a genetic code with the common cold, suggesting it could be a greater transmissibility as other variants but won't be as harmful. the white house says a travel testing requirement for foreign flights will go into effect on monday. passengers coming to the u.s. must show proof of a negative covid test within 24 hours of
travel. let's go now to nbc's scott cohn who's outside the san francisco international airport. this will certainly affect some folks arriving there. scott, thanks for joining us. how are health officials responding to this new requirement? do you think it's going to be enough to contain the spread or at least do they think it's going to be enough? >> reporter: well, what they're trying to do, alex, is really ramp up testing. that's a key right now in this space to try and understand where this variant is and where and it's going. here at san francisco international, we're at the international arrivals area and this airport was already part of a pilot program by the cdc to give voluntary take-home tests to people who arrive. they've now expand that had to specifically offer these tests to people coming from south africa, india, germany, britain, and france, and they're also doing things like testing the wastewater here, just to try and get a sense of where this variant is and where it's going.
we already know we're closing in on 30 countries worldwide that have reported these cases. as for this idea that maybe it is less severe but more dominant, that is the best case scenario, that could be very good if that's in fact the case, but experts say this situation with omicron could also be very bad. >> one group from south africa reported that the people who got this did not lose their sense of taste or smell, which is really i think an interesting thing, which might suggest that this is going to be milder disease all around, which would be a really good news story, we have a virus that's more transmissible that causes less severe disease and that is susceptible to vaccination. you know, that's like the best of all worlds as opposed to one that's more transmissible, causes more severe disease and is totally resistant to vaccination, that would be the worst of all possible worlds. >> that's the situation, dr. rutherford says it is the natural progression of a virus
to become less severe and more widespread, but he says that normally takes years to happen. he's cautioning against following what he and his colleagues at uc san francisco call hallmark card versions of epidemiology. we're not going to know for sure, alex, for at least a couple of weeks. >> okay, scot cohen, thanks for being on the case there at sfo appreciate it. house democrats are demanding action against lauren boebert for her anti-muslim remarks against ilhan omar. a congresswoman joined ilhan omar and talked about the serious and scary threats against her. d scary threats against her. when the chapstick goes on. it's on. get yours on at chapstick.com [sfx: radio being tuned] welcome to allstate. ♪ [band plays] ♪ a place where everyone lives life well-protected.
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omar. >> i think when somebody does something. she called congresswoman omar, she said i want to personally apologize to you, and that's what she did. >> joining me now is indiana congressman andre carson, a transportation and infrastructure committees, congressman, welcome back to the broadcast. before we get to the minority leader's handling of all of this, i want to remind a bit of the news conference you took part in this week with muslim members of congress, including ilhan omar. that is when omar revealed a threatening voice mail she received. >> we see you muslim, we know what you're up to. don't worry, would love the
opportunity to take you off the face of this [ bleep ] earth. muslim piece of [ bleep ] jihadist. >> you know, that kind of thing leaves me speechless, but i'm curious what goes through your mind when you hear it. have you ever had to deal with threats like this? >> i receive death threats monthly. they call and threaten me, threaten our staff. during the insurrection on january 6th, a man was apprehended with explosives in his vehicle, and he had a list of names and my name was included on that list, he said two muslims but there are three muslims. i get death threats all the time, in my district i have the sheriff's department, local police department with me at major events. so i'm always concerned about it, which is why i'm so sympathetic and empathetic with congresswoman ilhan's life being in jeopardy because i relate to
it, and this has occurred since i've been in congress. >> i'm sorry you have to deal with that, but let's get to the soundbite that we played from kevin mccarthy in which he said that representative boebert called representative omar and personally apologized. is that, sir, how you understand it? is that how it happened? i mean, do you know how that call went? >> well, i've spoken to congresswoman ilhan omar about it. you know, i'm extremely disappointed that minority leader mccarthy has failed to fully condemn her remarks and really show the leadership that his constituents and americans expect of him. he is really letting house republicans spew hate with no consequences, and he can't even control feuding members within his own caucus. it's clear that he has lost control of his caucus, which is why democrats must take the lead in securing accountability. >> but you would think that he would express a little more
remorse for this. does he not think he's got maybe one muslim constituent who would vote for him? it just seems so inapropos to not say this is wrong and it shouldn't be happening. >> well, he certainly does. i've done events in his district where people who have supported me have been supporters of his as well. i think he knows it. perhaps he is playing a 2022 game where he's concerned that donald trump will primary some members of his caucus, and also, he's probably making a play that he could possibly be the speaker should the democrats lose the house, god forbid, and so i don't think he wants to ruffle the feathers of his caucus just yet. >> probably doesn't want to ruffle the feathers of donald trump. if you do so, you could be on the outs quick. michael cohen is coming up next after you. he can confirm all of that. let's move on to the house committee investigating the january 6th capitol attack.
it has postponed a second hearing for the trump doj lawyer jeffrey clark. it comes after the committee voted to hold him in contempt. it is expected that clark is going to plead the fifth to each question. how does this contempt vote raise the stakes? does it get him to talk, or does it end up having to go to a full house vote, do you think? >> well, you know, i commend my colleagues on this bipartisan committee for their ongoing search for answers and accountability. you know, we cannot move on from this tragic day until we have a clearer picture of what happened and how we can prevent it from happening again. many people with blood on their hands are hoping that people would forget about what took place so they can effectively evade accountability. we won't let that happen, so i commend my good friend chairman bennie thompson and ranking member liz cheney who testified before the house rules committee seeking action on criminal contempt, as you just mentioned
referral for jeffrey clark while he was assistant attorney general at the justice department, he was reportedly at the center of efforts that spread misinformation about last year's election and derailed the peaceful transfer of power. it's shameful. >> let me ask you one quick question about what comes between now and the end of the year. does bbb build back better, does it get passed in the house ultimately and get to the president's desk for signing in this calendar year? >> no, that's so important, while passing the infrastructure bill was phenomenal and great progress, we still have to pass bbb, which contains a lot of human infrastructure. we're talking about lowering the child care costs for working families, establishing free quality universal preschool, permanently authorizes the first ever national paid family and medical leave guaranteed for u.s. workers, and it extends and expands the child tax credit.
i think we have to get it done. we're urging folks to contact their representatives and their senators and the white house to reaffirm their commitment to the bbb. >> okay. indiana congressman, andre carson, thank you so much for joining me on this saturday. we'll look forward to seeing you again. so when if donald trump is ever going to be indicted for any alleged business misdeed? could it happen very soon, and in fact, how soon. his former attorney michael cohen might have a pretty good idea about a whole bunch of things. michael's next. f things michael's next ing sluggish or wd down? it could be a sign that your digestive system isn't working at it's best taking metamucil everyday can help. metamucil psyllium fiber, gels to trap and remove the waste that weighs you down. it also helps lower cholesterol and slows sugar absorption to promote healthy blood sugar levels. so you can feel lighter and more energetic metamucil. support your daily digestive health. and try metamucil fiber thins. a great tasting and easy way to start your day.
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we are watching as the criminal investigation into former president donald trump and his family business reaches a major turning point. the prosecutor who's been overseeing the inquiry, cyrus vance jr. is in his final week as manhattan's d.a. there's been no comment from vance's office and no indication what direction the probe could
go to. last week trump's former attorney michael cohen suggested action could potentially be taken at any moment. >> i am not their only witness, and most importantly, what i gave to them are thousands and thousands of documents. every statement that i make i backed up with documentary evidence. i truly believe that they could indict donald trump tomorrow if they really wanted and be successful. >> joining me now is the guy himself, trump's former personal attorney michael cohen, author of the "new york times" best seller "disloyal" and host of the podcast mea culpa with michael cohen. do you still believe that? it's been a week. you'd think if they had the evidence you believe they have, they could have done it this week. >> they could have and i believe the same thing that i did last week, and i believed it the week before and throughout the entire process where i've been working with the prosecutors, and it's not just cyrus vance. remember, there's an entire team there led by now mark pom rance
who is a rico attorney and a fabulous attorney. they have millions of documents. there's no doubt in my mind that out of the plethora of investigations that they have and they're looking at, any one of them can be taken to the next level with an indictment and potential incarceration. >> you have suggested that family members are being looked at as well in terms of indictment. why do you suggest that? who -- what in your opinion do you think is being examined? >> you know, my friend stephanie winston turned around and said trump is a trump is a trump, and when donald is involved with something, there's always one or more of the children directly behind him. that's how the trump organization ran. so it's not as if he ever did anything on his own. he actually never did anything at all. it was always somebody else, and then reporting to donald, so if donald is involved, you could rest assured that either don
jr., ivanka, eric, along with whoever attorney was working on that specific matter was involved as well. >> we've heard a lot about allen weisselberg, and you talked about that last week on "meet the press". >> you can bet your bottom dollar that allen weisselberg is not, and i truly mean this, allen weisselberg is not the key to this. they are going after donald. they're going after don jr., eric, ivanka, a whole slew of individuals, family, you know, family as well. >> giving allen weisselberg's position, you would think that he would be the guy to know where all the bones are buried so to speak. >> yes, so anything dealing with financial allen weisselberg was the receptor of all that information. no dollar came in that he wasn't aware of, and no dollar ever left the trump organization without allen weisselberg's knowledge or sign-off.
i mean, that's just how the process worked. donald never wrote a check. he wasn't aware of what was going in and going out until allen weisselberg would bring him a document, show him, and now remember something, too, donald actually signed almost every single check, other than the ones for like phone bills or things that were routine, donald would receive on his desk in a little manila folder every single day a stack of 50, 75, 100 checks, and he would personally sign each and every check, so the notion that donald is going to be able to claim that he had no knowledge of it, well, of course he did. no different than my $35,000 checks for the repayment of the hush money that i gave to stormy daniels, several of them have donald's personal signature on them, others have don jr. and allen weisselberg. so if i could be indicted for it, obviously so could don jr., allen weisselberg and the big
man himself. >> do you think allen weisselberg looks at you as a cautionary tale in some ways? do you think he will flip? >> i think allen's stupid if he doesn't because what they did to me, i mean, they came down with the full weight and authority of the u.s. government, especially this corrupt -- the former corrupt department of justice with bill barr. it was nothing that i had ever experienced before. it was like being stuck between a tsunami and, you know, and a typhoon all at the same time. they should be doing the same thing to him. they should go after his son barry, his son jack, barry worked for the company. jack was one of two lenders, deutsche bank and ladder capital. why is it they're not pressuring him that way. i wouldn't be shocked down the road to find folks like allen weisselberg, jeff mcconny and others actually already providing information and testimony to the attorney general, i should say to the
district attorney and attorney general case. >> let me ask about ivanka trump and jared kushner. they returned to the social scene to some degree, and nothing happened this week when they were seen out in miami at the louis vuitton fashion show. however, media-wise, social media-wise they got a ton of blowback, people saying they should go back into hiding. do you think people are not going to remember they were social worked with the trump administration so intimately. >> they're also both narcissistic sociopathics. she married her father, and so they truly believe that they can reenter social society and come back on top, which is really at one point where they were before the entire presidential run. what's amaing to me is not even about this going to, you know, virgil's opening of louis vuitton in miami. what really offends me personally is that jared has managed to open up a hedge fund.
the guy made the worst real estate decision in the history of new york and somewhere along the line, middle eastern money poured into some brand new hedge fund into the billions of dollars. seriously? what is that coming from? what is the investigation into that? nobody out there who has money is stupid enough to give jared kushner a dollar. >> but how do you really feel? no, i'm just kidding. heck of an opinion you're sharing there. let me ask you about the appeal you have filed, in regards to having the trump organization pay -- it's like a million dollars or so that you still owe in attorney fees. where does that stand? do you think you're going to be successful on that one? >> so the answer i do, otherwise we wouldn't have filed the appeal. >> right. the trump organization had already paid over it million dollars in legal fees. everything that i did, what business did i have of filing a claim, a notice of claim against stormy daniels when she wanted to go on "60 minutes." i was called by the president
and told i don't want her going on, and so i went, i spoke to lawyers on his behalf, eric trump was involved. and all this is documented. it's not as if i'm saying it. it's all documented. i was supposed to have charles hearter as my attorney. he wanted to work for trump because of course name recognition and he got me another attorney who ended up working for me on this case knowing that he was going to be paid by the trump organization and he was paid by the trump organization during the course of my litigation, which i thought was totally improper. do i think so? yeah, i think the judge made an error. i think there's definitively an error in that. not only is the decision bad for me, it's bad against public policy because really what it's saying to you is if your boss tells you to do something and you do it and that decision goes south, they could walk away and you're going to get stuck with all the legal bills.
that's really what it's about. >> interesting. your criminal home confinement came to an end was it two weeks ago or so now? a couple of things. what's your biggest takeaway from this whole experience? >> oh, boy, what's my biggest takeaway. first of all, i made a lot of mistakes. i made a lot of mistakes in terms of even just accepting the employment of donald trump in the year 2007 when i first started going back to somewhere around 2005, 2006. i knew who he was, i knew what he was, but i never saw it to the extent that it ultimately became. for me he was a celebrity. there was a lot of fun that was going on, whether it was with the miss universe organization, whether it was with "the apprentice." i ultimately with another gentleman at the trump organization, larry blik, the two of us became co-presidents of trump protections. we were also having a lot of fun, a lot of real estate opportunities. i don't know what i was missing
in my life that allowed me to fall so deep into the dumpster, to spend time worrying about and providing so much loyalty to trump and the family, working on myself every day. >> that's good. that is a very positive takeaway as is this new project that you have, these nfts, what is this about you're selling something as of last night. you've got your i.d. badge from prison or something that's up for sale. >> well, i made fun of the whole scenario of what happened to me, anybody that doesn't believe that i was the ultimate scapegoat really needs to examine themselves as well, and soy try to make fun of what happened to me. otherwise it's very difficult to go to sleep and to wake up. >> what are we seeing here? we've got all this stuff coming up about you, right? you've got something from disloyal. you have the genesis of disloyal. it's a way to make money, but there must be a certain interest to that.
people who are either massive trump fans and want anything related to him or the exact opposite as well, right? >> correct. nfts are nonfungible tokens. i learned about them while i was on home confinement. a friend of mine -- a friend who's an artist who asked me to look over a contract because he didn't have any money, and he was concerned that he was going to be taken advantage of by the company that was promoting it, and so i knew nothing about it. well, when you have 21 hours of home confinement to do nothing, you get onto the internet and it's a fascinating thing. i ultimately believe it's going to be even bigger than what it is now. what i did is i took politics. i took art and i took my experience with technology, merged it all together into one, and we had a nice opening yesterday in miami. unfortunately right across from virgil's off-white location in south beach for art basil. it was a tremendous success, and we'll see what happens.
>> okay, going to wish you a lot of luck on that one. then you came from miami and joined us here. we're going to ask you one more question, but you're going to have to wait for a commercial break for it, michael, and so will all of you. we're going to be right back with michael cohen after a break. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪ did it work? only pay for what you need ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ spider-man no way home in theaters december 17th wondering what actually goes into your multi-vitamin. ♪ libeat new chapter.iberty. liberty. ♪ its innovation
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for chest, neck, and back. it goes on clear. no mess just soothing comfort. try new vicks vapostick. as promised we are back with michael cohen, so this one question to you, you've been pretty consistent in this regard. john kelly joined this chorus saying that donald trump is not going to run in 2024. he may say he's going to. he may take it as far as he can, but ultimately he's not going to do it. and john kelly says it's because he does not want to lose. are you still on that page? >> so that's just one of the reasons. first of all, he knows he's going to lose, but more importantly than that is something that i continuously say. he doesn't want to run. unless he could like putin ensure the success, he has no
interest in being declared a loser again, and by being declared a loser, what happens is this gigantic rift that he has going on with his pack where he's entitled to keep -- it's either 85 or 90% by discretion, you're giving your hard earned money to a billionaire in order for him to do whatever he wants with it, only 10% of it has to go to political means. so he's going to run the clock all the way to the end because the second that he turns around like tomorrow and says i'm not running in 2024, the great grift of america goes away. >> but what if he thought that 2022 midterms were going to go republican all the way with the house and the senate and then they'd be behind him if he were to get the presidency, you still think -- >> not a chance, he has no interest in running again. what he's looking to do is grift until the very end of his life. that way he can continuously say, quite frankly, i won. i won the 2020 election. it was stolen. if he loses 2024, my
impression -- i used to do it to him across his own table. in 2024 if he loses again, the big lie now disappears. he can't continue to go ahead and say, oh, i lost. you know, they stole it from me again. it's the boy who cried wolf. and that's what what he's so go. >> michael cohen, i appreciate you being here in-person and let me just clarify that you did not go to miami. okay, anybody who's keeping an eye on him. >> department of probation, i was not there. >> he was home. i made supposition. you're all in the clear. michael cohen, come see me again. thank you. >> thanks, al. the arguments in the abortion case before the supreme court that could be the most persuasive in the eventual decision. persuasive in the eventual decision challenge for new homeos who have become their parents... okay, everybody, let's do a ticket check. paper tickets. we're off to a horrible start. ...but we can overcome it. we're not gonna point out our houses, landmarks, or major highways during takeoff. don't buy anything. i packed so many delicious snacks. -they're -- -nope.
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this country. on wednesday, the supreme court heard arguments over a mississippi law that bans most abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, far short of the current fetal viability cutoff of about 24 weeks. the super majority of six conservative-leaning justices appear willing to pare down or completely overturn the 1973 landmark roe v. wade precedence guaranteeing a right to an abortion. if the court decides to overturn roe, 26 states are likely to ban legal abortion. a decision is expected at the end of the term in june. i'm joined now by wendy davis, a former texas state senator and founder of deeds, not words. welcome back, wendy. it's good to have you here. in 2013, your filibuster of a texas anti-abortion bill drew nationwide headlines and here we are, eight years later, and the nation's highest court is considering essentially giving states the right to ban abortion completely. what is your read on the arguments that were made on wednesday? who do you think made the better
constitutional case? was it mississippi or the attorneys for jackson, which is the last abortion clinic in that state? >> personally, i think the better constitutional arguments, alex, were made by the attorneys representing roe v. wade and the continuation of roe v. wade, and that was the u.s. solicitor general and the private attorney for the abortion clinic. and essentially, what they argued was that for decades now, women have relied on the underlying promise of the constitutional protection of their liberty, their privacy, and their ability to be fully equalized citizens in this country. and if you take that away, you're essentially breaking a constitutional promise. it has other ramifications for gay marriage and honestly, even for the premise underlying the right to contraceptive care. the justices on the other side of this issue, though, in spite
of justice roberts trying to figure out a way to have sort of a middle ground and to whittle roe down to a 15-week protection versus the viability protection of today, the other conservative justices indicated absolutely no willingness to go there with him. and i honestly believed, after watching it, alex, we are going to see roe v. wade overturned. i truly believe we are. >> wow. well, before wednesday, the only justice who openly called for overturning roe v. wade, that was justice clarence thomas, and here's how the three justices appointed by former president trump addressed roe during their confirmation hearings. this is really interesting. take a listen. >> i would tell you that roe vs. wade, decided in 1973, is a precedent of the united states supreme court. it has been reaffirmed, so a good judge will consider it as precedent of the united states
supreme court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. >> as a judge, it is an important precedent of the supreme court. by it, i mean roe v. wade and planned parenthood vs. casey. it's been reaffirmed many times. casey is precedent on precedent. >> roe is not a super precedent because calls for its overruling have never ceased but that doesn't mean that roe should be overruled. it just means that it doesn't fall on the small handful of cases like marbry vs. madison and brown vs. the board that no one questions anymore. >> okay, so we hear them speak there, justices gorsuch, kavanaugh and barrett. if they rule to uphold the mississippi law, does it contradict, particularly gorsuch and kavanaugh, does it contradict what they told congress during their confirmation hearings to get them on the bench? >> i mean, it was clear that they were obfuscating. they said that roe was
precedent, but they did not indicate that because a case is precedent, it means that it must be upheld. and in fact, both of them, in their questioning this week, indicated their belief that it was likely wrongly decided and that the constitution actually doesn't provide the kind of protection that roe said it did and that instead, the constitution takes what they said was a neutral position and that means, let's let states decide and let's allow congress to decide this issue rather than the court. >> obama appointee sonia sotomayor talked about the stakes being very high for the court. in fact, he urged her colleagues to follow precedent, not politics. given what you heard during arguments, is that happening? >> absolutely not. this court is unbelievably political, and of course donald trump was very open about the
fact that he was going to put people on the court who would overturn roe, and it truly does look like that's about to happen, and what justice sotomayor said was, how can this court possibly survive the stench of this political decision by this court? and honestly, i don't think they will. i think this is going the hurt the reputation and the way that people perceive the court for a very long time to come, and justice roberts understands that. that's why he's almost begging his conservative colleagues to go with him in some sort of a middle ground that doesn't entirely overturn roe, but they don't seem poised to go there with him. >> sobering, wendy davis. thank you so much. we'll be talking about this a lot before the decision comes down in june or by july 1st. thank you. the parents of the michigan school shooting suspect answer the charges but is there one piece of evidence that would ultimately put them away for a long time?
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