tv The Cross Connection With Tiffany Cross MSNBC December 4, 2021 7:00am-9:00am PST
injured. and that is on the mind of every single person in this country. so i would ask that you impose the $500,000 cash surety on each of the defendants, your honor. >> thank you. so in terms of the court is required to comply with mcr 1.016. the purpose of bond is to ensure that the defendants appear in court for all necessary court appearances as well as to take into consideration any risk to public safety. the charges are very, very serious, no question about that. there's -- the court does have some concern about the flight risk along with the public safety given the circumstances that occurred yesterday and the fact that the defendants did have to be apprehended in order to appear for purposes of arraignment. the court did indicated yesterday it would conduct an arraignment at 4:00 p.m. -- >> your honor if i may -- >> the bond for jennifer
crumbley at $500,000 cash surety no 10%. in the event that jennifer crumbley is able to post that, the following conditions will be in place. the defendant has is not to use or test positive for marijuana or any controlled substances. mrs. crumbley is not to possess or have firearms or dangerous weapons. shall not have any assaultive behavior toward anyone. must provide a release address to pretrial services. the defendant within 24 hours of release from the jail must submit to and pay for ebt or urinalsis. that would be at the direction of pts. the defendant ms. crumbley is to verify any employment status, and verify that in writing upon
release from the oakland county jail. in the event that the defendant is able to post bond the court is going to require she have a gps tether. the gps tether must be installed upon release from the oakland county jail. she may be -- the gps tether will have the allowances that she could go to work, attend court hearings, medical appointments, and attorney meetings. she must provide work schedule, medical appointments, and any meetings to pts in advance. again, that must be installed at the jail before she leaves the jail. as it relates to james robert crumbley, the court is setting a $500,000 cash surety, no 10% bond. the defendant is not to use or test positive for alcohol, recreational marijuana or any controlled substances. the the defendant is not to possess any firearms, weapons or
ammunition. the defendant is not to have assaultive behavior toward anyone. the defendant must provide a release address if he is able to post bond to pretrial services. he will be monitored by pretrial services. must submit and pay for testing within 24 hours of release from the jail at a facility that is open seven days a week that automatically confirms all positives, provides all levels in writing. the defendant must verify employment to pts upon release from the oakland county jail. the gps tether must be installed prior to release from the oakland county jail in the event the defendant is able to post bond. he also must provide information related to work schedule, medical appointments or other appointments allowed, which would include he could attend court hearings, employment, medical appointments, and
attorney meetings. any violation of the term and condition of bond may result in a revocation of bond. any question as it relates to bond for james crumbley? >> your honor, we have no questions. you but i want to state on the record, i was not able to watch the entire press release and what the -- i had no idea there was a 4:00 arraignment, ms. layman didn't know either. the media had so many reports of random times quite frankly we didn't believe those -- >> we're not going to get into -- >> i wanted to apologize to the court because we weren't aware. we faxed over appearances and no one told us we're going to do this at 4:00. we sent appearances late in the day. i apologize to the court because we don't miss dates. so thank you. >> thank you. finally as it relates to bond, the -- in the event that the
defendants do post bond i am requiring that they turn over any and all weapons to the oakland county sheriff's office. that must occur. within -- realistically, i'm not sure what they have in their possession or where they're going to be released to if they post bond but i'm going to require they turn over all weapons upon release from the oakland county jail. any other questions? >> no, thank you. >> no, your honor. >> no. >> again, the pcc is on the 14th at 1:15, preliminary examination is on the 22nd at 9:45 a.m. it will be in person proceedings. please make sure that you are prepared with all witnesses and/or exhibits.
>> your honor, i want to put on the record there are hundreds of hows of records and documents and we are compiling it and we'll get it to defense counsel as soon as possible. >> thank you. >> thank you, your honor. have a nice day. >> thank you, judge. >> you too. >> your honor. >> and that concludes the arraignment of james and jennifer crumbley, the parents of ethan crumbley, who has been charged with one count of terrorism, four counts of murder, seven counts of attempted murder. these are his parents they have imposed a $500,000 cash bond each. they are both to abstain from the consumption or possession of alcohol or narcotics. to return or turn in any firearms that they have. they agree to a gps tether, they can leave their homes for purposes of medical
appointments, work, court appointments or attorney appointments if those are planned in advance. now the defense attorneys have had asked for one tenth of that amount, 50 to $100,000, the judge did not agree with them. this seemed to rest on the issue whether the parents are a flight risk. the attorneys argued they are not a flight risk which had people scratching their heads given the fact they were supposed to turn themselves in yesterday afternoon but were apprehended by a fugitive unit overnight in detroit. some distance from their homes. joining us is shaquille bruster, thomas cranmoth is back with us. and we have debbie dingle with us. and jennifer reuben. she is an msnbc political analyst. good morning to all of you. shaquille, let's start with you. there was a dispute about the facts in this one about whether
or not the crumbleys were attempting to evade capture. it seemed to play out one way for those who saw on it the media, including the fact the police were looking for them, acted on a 911 tip, apprehended them and brought them back to oxford county. the lawyers are saying you don't have the facts, they're not a flight risk. >> yeah. and this is something that we were litigating and watching play out almost in real time yesterday right after that press conference when apparently there was that contact between the attorney's office and law enforcement initially. that was something the county sheriff said existed and that's something the attorneys said happened as well. but by 3:00 p.m. there was a be on the lookout advisory that went out to members of law enforcement and as of last night we got word there was no immediate contact between the sheriff's office and their attorneys. that changed around 10:45 p.m. when they finally made that initial contact. but the county sheriff kept saying they didn't know that the attorneys told them they didn't know where their own clients
were. and that was unacceptable to law enforcement. that's what led to this full-scale manhunt for these two people they were calling fugitives. i think one other point to make is they entered a plea of not guilty for those four counts of involuntary manslaughter. we heard the prosecutor there explain some of the evidence she has against them in the case. but the attorneys saying there's much more left out there. even contradicting one of the points saying the gun that was used in the shooting on tuesday, they're saying that that gun was locked. the prosecution is saying something opposite. >> this is not a moment to be introducing evidence but they brought up a couple of key things including they say the gun was locked. moments ago nbc news received a statement from the defense attorneys for the crumbley. we understand that our clients were apprehended last night although we fully intended to turn them in first thing this morning for arraignment, contrary to the misinformation
that has been rampant in the media. unfortunately this case presents the most unimaginable tragedy for every single person involved, including every member of the community. while it is human nature to want to find someone to blame or someone to point to or something that gives us answers, the charges in this case are intended to make an example and send a message. the prosecution has cherry picked and slanted specific facts to further their narrative to do that. we intend to fight this case in the courtroom and not in the court of public opinion. we know that in the end the entire story and truth will prevail. end quote. thomas, i want to ask you about that. because we were all covering this. we all heard the police tell us that they were supposed to turn themselves in and they hadn't. the defense attorneys seemed to have some reasons for it, excuses for it, including the fact that james crumbley did not
apparently take his insulin with him. what do you make of the arguments the defense attorneys made against a high bail? >> it's unfortunate because these situations happen where the defense lawyers make arrangements to turn their clients in and it saves everyone some time and effort in terms of an arraignment like this. obviously we saw there appeared to be some confusion, at least from the defense perspective as to whether or not there was this agreement that had been reached. it seemed to me that what was most telling is how and where the crumbleys were ultimately apprehended. in a warehouse in detroit. which seems to circumstantially suggest, as the prosecution argued, perhaps they weren't going to turn themselves in and they were perhaps hiding. we'll have to see. this is a case, obviously, that is developing. we're learning more facts as we go along. and as shaquille indicated, an
interesting allegation from the defense counsel that supposedly the gun in question was locked. we'll have to see how that plays out in court. >> congresswoman dingle, lost in these things because there are so many facts to go through is something much more important and that is lives were lost. i want to put up on the screen the names and images of the victims in the school shooting. hana st. juliana who was 14 years old. tate myre 16 years old. madisyn baldwin 17 years old. justin schilling 17 years old. and congresswoman, there were a lot of clues that this young man was going to do this. some of them the school had. a lot of them his parents had. and they bought him a gun a week before. i don't know how you make sense of this? >> you can't. that's part of the problem, ali. i have my former neighbor who now lives in oxford, his son who i've known since he was a baby, was there.
i'm not going to use his name but his father called me about 2:00 and told me everything that happened. but his son and he sent me the text -- sent a text on november 18th saying that this boy was making threats. he was scared. his friends were going home. there were a lot of signals in that school. we've heard some of the other stories. you know, i -- you can't make sense out of this. and we have to figure out what happened, why something wasn't done, and how do we keep this from happening again? because what's really, really bothering me, i met with students in both dearborn and in ann arbor yesterday. the kids are scared. we had 100 schools that were closed yesterday because of other kids making threats. some kids have been arrested. charges have been pressed against them. they don't want to go to school. they don't know who to believe. they don't know if they're going
to be safe. their fear, anxiety, depression, our kids are impacted by this every day and four of them aren't going home again. >> and jennifer reuben, we can't necessarily solve all the problems that troubled kids have but whether you look at sandy hook or kyle rittenhouse, these are people who couldn't get guns whose parents facilitated their ability to get guns. if ethan crumbley is a troubled young man he's not alone in being a troubled young man but there's parental responsibility in not accessing firearms for troubled students. >> absolutely. when the defense says the prosecutor wants to make an example of these people, that's right and an appropriate role from the prosecution. it didn't detract from the fact these people may have criminal liability. it is important that we begin to look at the responsibility of the adults surrounding these. whether it's the school, the
parents who have a special obligation. and i think we have to start imposing some legal accountability on these people. we have guns readily available to people who should not have access to them, whether they're themselves people who should not have access to weapons or in a household with people who should not have access to weapons. and until we come to grips with that, i think we're going to have this repeat again and again and again. and it is simply a tragic situation. and the fact that there were parents who could have presented this had they acted responsibly, i'm sure will haunt the families of these young people for forever. >> debbie dingle, we -- how do we fix this? most kids who die of bullet wounds don't get shot at school, but it is this terrible thing
you talk about where kids worry about this, go through active shooter drills and when it comes from within, which it often does, including at marjorie stoneman douglas, that fear doesn't go away. it affects their ability to learn. what can be done about this and can it be done at a federal level? >> we've been trying. we need to do something about gun control but we haven't been successful. but i also think we've all got to really take a deep breath. we all have a collective responsibility. as you dig into this and you hear more facts, as i have, about some of the family situation in this case. we have a lot of hate and anger in our communities. there is a fear and a hate that is dividing us as a country. we need to look at the root causes of that. we cannot stand by and not look at the anger and the violence that is coming in too many communities. we've all got to take a deep breath we all have a responsibility in our communities to look at it and try to bring people together and
stop this division. yes, we've got to do something at the federal level about gun control. but it's more than that, and i hope people will listen this time and we don't go to our corners and take the same position we do all the time. because i'll tell you something, i am a kid who had to hide in that closet, i never have forgotten it, and god damn it it's time to do something. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us. thomas, i want to ask you with respect to the things that the parents are charged with, how much of that exists in michigan law? how much of this is laws that they are alleged to have actually broken versus things that the prosecutor wants to deal with in order to have the parents take responsibility for having bought and given access to a firearm to their son? >> they're charged with involuntary manslaughter and what the prosecution is going to
have to show and prove beyond a reasonable doubt is that the parents acted in a grossly neglect fashion. not that they were careless or merely neglect but they were grossly neglect. they were reckless in terms of their conduct. so it's really a situation that is fact dependent and we've heard some from the prosecution in terms of what they think their facts are that show the parents acted in a reckless fashion, and interestingly enough we heard from the defense today, wait a minute, the prosecution is kind of cherry picking some facts. once you hear all the facts you will see that our clients did not act recklessly, all of that obviously is going to be playing out in a courtroom. probably the first opportunity we'll have to see some more of the facts is going to come at that preliminary examination that the judge mentioned on december 22nd. >> what happens now, the conditions impose, bail money that has to come up with, what
happens? what's the next thing that happens? >> reporter: as far as we know they'll remain in jail until they post bond, if they ever post bond. we know we'll expect to see them appear in court again on december 14th and about a week after that, but unless they post bond they will be in jail with their son, that 15-year-old student, the suspected shooter who the prosecution said resulted in the lives of four people and injured seven others. as far as the community deals with, they're still grieving last night there was a prayer vigil held, a group gathered outside of the hospital as one of the victims, 17-year-old justin schilling as his body was sent to surgery to donate his organs there was a group of people outside of the hospital for support. there's still that sense of grief the community is going through. and the one thing about the
arraignment, the different demeanors in the couple. if you look at the father he was laughing, at points, reacting to what the judge was saying. if you look at jennifer crumbley, the mother, she was emotional at times. she could barely get through saying that she understood the charges against her. that demeanor is very different in both of those. you heard the attorneys try to pull back a little bit and say everyone is taking this extremely seriously, everyone understands the weight and gravity of the situation. the terror of the school shooting. it was an interesting dynamic to watch play out in that courtroom. >> thanks. you have a sharp eye for what's happening inside and outside the courtroom. nbc's shaquille bruster. thomas cranmer, oxford is in oakland county. jennifer rubin is an opinion writer for "the washington post" and we had congresswoman debbie
dingle on with us. we are going to continue our coverage with us. but some of you have been asking where's tiffany cross? she's in the building, she's available now, i'm going to hand it over to her. >> thank you for covering that breaking news. it's sad with those parents getting charged. i know the parents are in distress, but i think about the parents of those four children who were killed. and it's heartbreaking and it will keep happening as long as we don't have any kind of gun control. so i'm going to talk to our first guest, congressman hakeem jeffries, about that. so thank you for those breaking news. ignore those twitter comments i appreciate you my friend. >> i'll be watching. >> i want to bring in my friend and congressman hakeem jeffries. thank you for joining us. i'm sure that you were watching some of this coverage and so, before we get into what's happening on capitol hill, i
want to get your thoughts, as a lawyer, about these two parents being charged in connection with the four children being killed, you know, considering this could set a legal precedence and in the face of republicans' opposition to any gun control in this country. >> as a lawyer we'll see the proceedings unfold, hopefully all parties involved are going to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the applicable constitutional provisions in the state of michigan or in america. and justice will be done at the end of the day. that certainly should be all of our hope as americans. as a parent, it's just particularly chilling to know that there are americans who are going to have to bury their children. and no parent should ever have
to do that. and certainly given the circumstances of this particular case, another mass shooting in america, it requires congress to finally find the courage, particularly in the senate, because we've acted in the house, to do something to address the gun violence epidemic that we have in america as bipartisan legislation is sitting in the senate right now that will do something about our gun violence problem in america and we need the republicans to stop being obstructionists. >> i want to ask because gun violence keeps happening. you're working alongside gun enthusiasts who made carrying gun to work on capitol hill a part of her campaign, quite frankly. she's made threatening comments, she's made insulting comments about your fellow colleagues. i'm just curious with the discord happening on capitol hill right now, do you feel safe
working on capitol hill alongside people who are pro vok or thes and some of that provoking led to the violence at the hill on january 6th? >> i do feel safe. i'm thankful for the men and women of the capitol hill police force, who as we saw on january 6th, put their lives on the line to defend the congress, the capital, the constitution and the country from that violent attack that was provoked and incited by the former president of the united states. but we do need an end to the reckless and radical divisive and dangerous rhetoric that continues to come from people on the other side of the aisle. whether that's marjorie taylor greene or lauren bobert or paul gosar. it's endless the vitriol we've
seen. we also need republican leadership to act in a responsible way and stop burying their heads in the sand before they get someone killed. >> i want to get into some of this. i know you have limited time, thanks so much for joining us this morning. as we talk about what happened with the shooter in michigan, i want to get into voting rights. because we get so caught up on voting rights, as we should, but it's the policy that comes after you've obliterated the path to the ballot box once you eliminated people that look like you and me from being able to vote, they can plow through more legislation that impacts gun control, abortion rights, bail reform, et cetera. the first step act, which you helped craft in congress. you know, there are a lot of frustrated voters out there who helped deliver the power of the federal government to democrats who are looking right now going into midterms, frustrated that nothing has been done on voting
rights. what is the plan to get that passed? >> well, i understand that frustration. certainly, we have been working hard to decisively deal with the challenges confronting the american people in terms of crushing the virus, rescuing the economy from what occurred as a result of the once in a century pandemic. and now getting important pieces of legislation like the bipartisan infrastructure agreement and ultimately build back better act over the finish line to create millions of good paying jobs, cut taxes for working families and lowering costs in areas including child care, health care and life-saving prescription drugs. that said, there are forces in this country trying to halt progress and pervert democracy through gerrymandering, through the filibuster abuse, and, of course, through voter suppression. in this particular case, we have the john robert lewis voting rights act that is live and
pending in the senate. and we have the freedom to vote act live and pending in the senate. 50 democratic senators support those two important pieces of legislation. and because the vice president presides over the senate in the event of a tie, we have the ability to pass these bills and protect our democracy, but it is the filibuster which is not in the constitution and is just a matter of outdated custom, which is stopping us from being able to advance this voter protection legislation. and the democrats in the senate collectively are going to have to do something about that. >> yeah. i mean, because you have to consider if the democrats lose the majority next year, the january 6th investigation committee goes away and a lot of other policy that has an adverse impact on a lot of folks in america. you talked about build back better. i want to talk about this because a lot of people are eager for this legislation to
get passed. right now there's a question if paid family leave will survive the bill. a group of over 800 leaders took out a full-page ad in the "the new york times" and wrote to chuck schumer pressing him to keep paid family leave. what's your council to the leader when it comes to keeping this issue in the bill? >> chuck schumer has done a tremendous job in holding the coalition together to this point of 50 democrats. but, of course, because there is no room for error, any one senator can stop a particular provision from making it into the legislation. and at least to date, senator manchin has expressed some skepticism around paid family leave. i'm not sure why. that's a question, of course, he'll have to address. but i think the advocacy groups continuing to press for this important provision that was in our house bill is important. but i am confident that the
$150 billion that we set aside to create and preserve affordable housing will remain in the bill. that the child tax credit expansion that was first in the american rescue plan will remain in the bill. that universal access to pre-k for 3 and 4-year-olds will remain in the bill. driving down the price of insulin to $35 per month when many americans pay over $5,000 per year will remain in the bill. so that's the good news. it's very good news for the people. but we have to continue to fight the good fight on paid family leave. >> quickly before i let you go. we have to talk about the omicron variant that is spreading rapidly in the united states. this week democrats had a closed-door meeting with the dean of brown university school of public health who walked some of your colleagues through some concerns. i'm curious what you and your colleagues in the meeting
learned, and how congress is preparing to help america deal with this variant? >> we're thankful for the public health experts who came to brief us earlier this week. more importantly thankful we have a president and an administration that are taking this seriously, both in terms of the overall virus, the pandemic and in this particular case, the omicron variant. what we learned is that there's still a lot to be learned about the type of effect that this variant may have. however, i think the good news is, the preliminary research suggests that though this variant may be a little bit more contagious, there's not a lot of evidence to suggest that it is more severe in its ultimate impact, particularly for those who have been vaccinated and boosted. that's why we're continuing to urge people to get those vaccinations. if you're double vaccinated already, make sure you get the booster shot and remain
vigilant. because this pandemic is not over for any of us until it's over for all of us. and it's going to take all of us to pull together to crush this virus. >> absolutely. congressman you have to come back, we had so much breaking news this morning we did not have as much time with you so i have a lot more questions you have to join us again. thank you so much for joining us. much more to come after the break. we'll be right back. the break. we'll be right back. (vo) subaru and our retailers believe in giving back. that's why, in difficult times, we provided one hundred and fifty million meals to feeding america. and now through the subaru share the love event, we're helping even more. by the end of this year, subaru will have donated over two hundred and twenty five million dollars to charity.
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we have got to start taking seriously the right wing extremists parading around under the moniker of conservative lawmakers. the latest florida governor ron desantis who proposed establishing the florida state guard, a civilian military force outside of federal control deployed in response to state emergencies. according to the governor's office have state civilian offices but the track record is causing concern already. this is a man who defends his extreme anti-riot law as he calls it against protesters even though a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional. we can imagine what desantis might classify as an emergency. joining me is malcolm nance, and rosa brooks.
thank you both for being here. rosa i want to start with you here because it feels like we -- i want to call them right wing extremists, because that's what they are. when you say conservative, it sounds kinder and gentler what these people are. in pennsylvania, two candidates -- in two pennsylvania communities candidates who embraced election fraud allegations won to become voting judges. in colorado they're urging followers for jobs -- to apply for jobs in election offices. trump allies are seeking to replace officials across the nation to decide how elections are run, how elections turn out. how do we stop this? >> i'll tell you one thing that drives me nuts, tiffany. i keep seeing the media using phrases like we have to rely on the guardrails of democracy. there are no guardrails. there are only people. what the gop is doing now, if you can't win in a fair game,
you start cheating. you bribe the ref. you try to get the opposing players disqualified, you change the rules. that's what we're seeing right now. we need to take incredibly seriously the democratic party and all republicans who care about the integrity of elections need to be in there themselves volunteering to help at the polls. and making it clear it's not out of a commitment to make sure a particular party wins but out of a belief we need people everywhere in the system who are going to play fair, who are going to insist that everybody play fair if we're not doing the same thing aggressively to make sure we have people in there who will be those guardrails, then i think we're in for a disaster. >> i hear rosa's point, malcolm. i think that's fair. doing that. the pathway to even being a part of the guardrail to protect democracy, you have texas, an open carry state who has
employed partisan poll watchers to be part of the process. i don't know if i'm showing up with armed people who are aggressively unapologetic about democracy to work alongside those people. look at ron desantis, what he's trying to do in florida trying to create a civilian armed force. it seems violent and does not seem like it has a happy ending. >> let's look at the florida case. what i suspect is happening here, you know i monitor right wing we monitor their chats to see how many are viewing it and they're viewing it as i suspected. this is a way to give belief that the right wing militia members can join a state organization that will support ron desantis or as people call it ron's red army and they will get a chance to act as a
civilian protection force, a la kyle rittenhouse and that crew up protecting car dealerships and groceries that never asked for it. he gives them the belief they will become part of a state apparatus, where they can carry their guns, wear a uniform, act like the national guard and pretend every city, after a hurricane is new orleans after hurricane katrina and they can stand out there with their rifles and shoot looters. that's the fantasy they have going around there. and i think ron desantis is fostering that fantasy here. >> you have to wonder how this is being perceived on a global scale. it's quite scary. rosa, i think when we look at the landscape right now. as we go into 2022, thinking about midterms. i really have doubts that these people will ever accept an election outcome they don't like. when you think about the
security that capitol hill has, state legislatures, houses they don't have that. school board elections don't have that, individuals running for office, they don't have secret service or armed protection around them. what happens if another january 6th breaks out but it's not at the capital. it's another plot to kidnap the governor of michigan again, for crying out loud? >> i don't know what happens. you're right to ring the alarm bells. not a biden won last time, so everything turns out well in the end. things don't turn out well in the end unless we put ourselves on the line to make sure they turn out well in the end. i'm worried. i'm scared about the midterm elections and the next presidential election. i don't think the people trying to do this, i don't think the stop the steal crowd, much less the qanon crowd or the trumpees make up a majority of americans
or republicans. i do think -- this is malcolm's territory, when you look at terrorist organizations around the globe, you don't have to have a lot of people, you can have a tiny minority, but if they are ruthless, well funded and armed, they can do a lot of damage unless everybody else is standing up actively to do that. if we say they're a bunch of fringe crazies, that just increases the likelihood it will happen. >> that's a bigger conversation than the time period we have now. malcolm, you have to come back on i wanted to follow up with you on the global perception comment. thank you malcolm nance and rosa brooks. we'll you both soon. the future of roe v wade hangs in the balance. you don't want to miss it. you don't want to miss it. so is screening for colon cancer. when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. hey, cologuard!
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sponsor said, we're doing it because we have new justices on the supreme court. will this institution survive the stench that this creates in the public perception that the constitution and its reading are just political acts? i don't see how it is possible. >> on wednesday the supreme court heard arguments in a case that could spell the end of nearly 50 years of reproductive freedom in the united states. let's be clear about what's at stake. if donald trump's hand picked 6-3 radical conservative court effectively overturns roe v. wade it would cut off 65 million women from safe ways of ending
pregnancy. michelle, happy to have you back with me, sad it's under these circumstances. this has been a long time coming. there was always a slow erosion of abortion rights and no place has that been more punctuated than your state, mississippi. when you look at people losing half the amount of time, 15 weeks is not enough time for a woman to make that kind of decision. what's your take on where we are right now in this country when it comes to abortion rights? >> i'm not very optimistic with the supreme court upholding roe. i don't want to be right this go around. but we do have a majority anti-abortion supreme court. and we've been living in mississippi for some time. and pretty much a post roe scenario with only one clinic that provides abortion health
care for mississippi and the surrounding states. so not only mississippi, you know, the anti-lawmakers have been coming after the fifth circuit for over 20 years. so i'm not very optimistic about that. but i am optimistic in regards to the activism and the attention and involvement of other people throughout the fifth circuit and throughout the south in regards to making sure that we do everything we can to get folks who are seeking abortion health care to get their procedures, and get those procedures safely. >> you know, a lot of people who call themselves pro-life will champion adoption as the better alternative, force a woman to carry a child to term to adoption. i wanted to talk about adoption figures. as of 2020, september of last year. over 400,000 children were in foster care. now unfortunately a lot of children in foster care are not placed in loving homes.
they move through the system, they spend their ire entire teen years in the system until they're just unleashed without any support system or structure. just your thoughts on people who are watching, saying, yeah, let's take this right away from women because they can carry these kids and get them adopted. what's your response to that? >> i'm not anti-adoption. i think adoption and adopting is great. but let's be clear on this. these antis are not pro-life, let's be clear about that. they're pro-fetus and pro-birth. they're not the ones adopting the available children, right, that are in the foster care system, a. and we also know that black and brown babies are not getting adopted at the same rate as white babies. and further more, forced pregnancy is -- it likens me as to what happened to black women who were slaves here.
they were forced to be raped and bred in order to have free labor in this country. >> that's right. we will keep our eye on this case. thank you michelle for your work and for joining us this morning. coming up next on "the cross connection" new york city will soon open supervised sites for drug users. but will it save lives? stay tuned. but will it save lives stay tuned that will never work! if it works on nfl jerseys it'll work for you. and it's cold. so you will turn to cold? fine! that guy needs to chill out!
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overdoses, reduce drug use in public places and promote safer injection practices that reduce the spread of diseases. joining me now the executive director of the drug policy alliance. cassandra, this is a really interesting concept. i remember that hamsterdam episode very well. why do you think facilities like this work? >> they work because they remove discard like syringes off the streets. we encourage people to move from being in the street in parks and actually moving into a facility where they can get access to safer injection strategies as well as clean equipment, and they're connected to people that can get them connected to treatment and housing and food security, and really figure out how we can surround people and give people wrap around services so they can stay alive enough to make other choices. >> right, i mean, listen, you know, i can't help but wonder what would have happened had sites been around the crack
epidemic and considering how so many people were funneled through a very unforgiving criminal justice system, especially black and brown folks, the drug crisis continues to hit communities of color very hard. i have to say, i don't know that i would want this facility in a neighborhood where i live. so where should these facilities be placed? because there are proposals like this all across the country and so far cities have been saying no thanks. >> yeah, so i think one of the things we have to recognize is that we need these sites to be where people already are. there are neighborhoods where people are publicly injecting currently that are dying in our parks and our alleyways in the dunkin' donuts bathrooms. we need these sites to be where people already are. this is not going to a place -- these places are being sited where the overdose rates are the highest. in east harlem it has the highest for black people in that neighborhood. people are consistently talking about people being in the street, so the site is placed in somewhere that is already
established, that is already serving this clientele that can incentivize those people that people are walking over or ignoring, moving them inside. so honestly, if you are living in a neighborhood where public injection is a huge thing that you're navigating and you're literally seeing people overdose in the street, this is a way for us to get those people off the street and get them connected. >> and is there an effort to get people clean? i mean, that's the -- you know, i think people want to see people get off drugs, and i hear your point about fentanyl. i mean, it is ravaging communities, but how do we help more people get off this and kick this habit? >> yeah, so the thing that i would offer is that people who use drugs are not dirty. they are our loved ones, our brothers, our sisters, and what this is about is getting people to a place where they cannot be under the pressure of criminalization, not have to -and-a-half navigate a poison drug supply.
a system of prohibition is chaotic, and it makes it hard for people to make the best choices. people are doing the best that they can, and so, yes, while some people want people -- while some people are trying to get to a place where they can stop using drugs, for us we're trying to get them to a place where they're less chaotic where we can create options for them that seem logical to them, giving them the opportunity to come in as opposed to being isolated to being criminalized and navigating a criminal drug supply. >> i have many people in my family that have gone through the program, so i more than understand the plight of this battle with drugs. it is a hard one. thank you so much cassandra fed reek for joining us. in the next hour, it's a rematch down in georgia, and so far it's looking pretty good for stay abrams. plus, the latest on the parents of the michigan school suspect now in custody and facing involuntary manslaughter charges. a live report ahead. anslaughter charges. a live report ahead. o man, that's a whole lot of wrinkly
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not guilty. >> not guilty. >> all right, welcome back to "the cross connection." as you saw this morning, jennifer and james crumbley, the parents of that is a-year-old alleged to have killed four people at a michigan high school this week pled not guilty to four charges of involuntary manslaughter. they are now being held on a
$500,000 bond. that's $500,000 each. joining me now is msnbc correspondent shaq brewster who is live on the ground in pontiac, michigan, with the latest. good morning, shaq. >> reporter: good morning, and that arraignment happened -- came after what was an hours' long manhunt that ended in the overnight hours. we knew about those charges, those four counts of involuntary manslaughter. those were filed around noon yesterday when we had that extensive press conference from the prosecutor. she explained the reason why she was filing these charges is because she believes there was criminal negligence in the actions of the parents. she said the parents were the only ones who knew the concern about that 15-year-old suspected shooter, who knew that he had fantasies and depictions of killing people with a gun and who knew he had access to a gun, and they knew that because they purchased him the gun days before the shooting calling it an early christmas gift, and they knew the signs. they were in the schools even an hour before the shooting happened. so it was because of that those
involuntary manslaughter charges were filed, but there was an arraignment scheduled yesterday at 4:00 p.m., and they never showed up to that. that led to the manhunt that included the fbi, the u.s. marshals and the county sheriff. they were eventually found in detroit apparently hiding in a commercial building in a locked room according to the prosecutor of that commercial building, and then they were transferred back to this county. it was a very act uf scene that we saw overnight play out, and it resulted in that arraignment where, again, they entered those not guilty pleas, and we'll expect to see them in court again on december 14. >> let me ask you, what is the sentiment like in the community? we have to remember four kids lost their lives, and do you anticipate any more charges? ultimately the school allowed him to go back into the classroom. >> reporter: i'll answer that second question first because it's the quickest. that was asked to the prosecutor during the press conference yesterday, and she said that the investigation continues. she didn't address that question
directly or answer the question directly, but she said the investigation continues because she does believe that that student should not have been able to get back into the classroom after that drawing that she saw. in terms of the mood of the community, i mean, it is still one of grief. there was a prayer vigil that was held last night to honor those four victims who lost their lives, who won't be returning home, who won't return to a classroom whenever that classroom instruction begins. and there was also a gathering outside of the hospital as that 17-year-old victim, justin shilling, as his body was carried and transferred over to be essentially have his organs donated. there were a group of people that gathered outside of the hospital to show support for his parents, and the sheriff even came out to speak to them for a moment. there is a very clear focus on those who lost their lives here, and also those who are still in the hospital. the latest that we heard is that their condition is improving, including one who was critically ill at one point on a
ventilator, their conditions are improving. they're in stable condition, but there are still people in the hospital fighting for their life. >> absolutely heartbreaking, thank you so much, i want to bring in my panel now, katie fang joins me on set, the co-host of cnbc's money court and msnbc legal contributor. michael harriot comes back to "the cross connection," and brenda gonzalez making her "the cross connection" debut. she's the cofounder and co-host of the tim rin doe podcast. katie, i want to start with you since you're here with me on set. this idea that the parents are charged could set a precedent going forward when these types of school shootings happen. as a lawyer, what do you think about that? >> yeah, so, tiffany, let's be really clear, though. they're not being prosecuted because they're the parents of ethan crumbley. they have their own individual liability because in michigan involuntary manslaughter can arise when you're criminally negligent, when you knew or should have known that something like this could happen and you did nothing to stop it. now, it's not just i was a
parent and maybe i should have been paying better attention to my kid's instagram. it's he went out with this gun purchased by his dad four days before these homicides occurred, and the parents were posting on social media that the gun belonged to their 15-year-old son which was illegal in and of itself. we want to make sure that people understand from a legal standpoint this is individual liability for each of these parents, for their failure to actually in and of their own rights protect and make sure that things didn't happen. now, what's nuts in my opinion is how are they getting $500,000 bond each? they are a defined extreme flight risk. no one can tell me that they were intending on turning themselves in by hiding out in the basement of a commercial building in the middle of the night in another city withdrawing $4,000 in cash. if i'm the prosecutor i would have asked for absolutely no bond and i'd be very disappointed right now that the judge put them on a $500,000 cash bond. i know they have got home confinement, ankle monitors. what does that mean?
you cut it off and take off. i'm really disappointed in the amount of bond, but i do know that there's going to be a serious battle. they are going to move to dismiss these charges and try to say this is not the right legal grounds for us to be hold. >> we'll see if they're successful in that. michael harriot, there are the reporting of the text messages with he and his mother after the school saw him searching on had iz phone looking at ammunition, the mother replied lol, and intimated that he should try not to get caught. what's your take on this? >> i think you have to, you know, look at it from the perspective of what -- it seems as if everyone around this kid knew what would happen except his parents did nothing to ameliorate it, right? they told his parents and then they emailed his parents, and they left -- they called his parents and then they brought him up to the school and said please take him home with you. it seems like at every step the people around this kid kind of
were afraid of exactly what would happen, would eventually happen, and -- it seems like they took the steps, aside from calling the police -- interesting question, if this were a black kid, right, do you think the police would have been called on this kid, right? because the parents didn't do anything and the school took the steps, do you think that that kid would have been allowed to stay in that school if there wasn't this, you know, innocent looking kid who they put out these 4-year-old pictures of when he was charged with this crime. like, it seems like every step has been taken to take into account every round, was this kid bullied. what was his mental health state, maybe it was his parents. it's weird to me how much of the benefit of the doubt he's getting. >> the benefit of the doubt and empathy and i take your point
because had this been a muslim kid as well, a black kid, a muslim kid, there would have been an outcry. he would not have been allowed to go back into that classroom. let's bring you into the conversation. what's your take on this scenario as it plays out, especially as this is a political issue as well. i mean, republicans remain in staunch opposition to any type of gun control. >> yeah, that's exactly right. i mean, we have a culture that glorifies guns the way that we do where, you know, i in high school was thinking about getting in sync tickets, not getting a gun for christmas. we have a culture that glorifies gun ownership like this, we can't be surprised that yet again we have another mass school shooting. so i really think that that's something else to think about is just the culture, the obsession that we have, the glorification of getting a gun. i mean, this kid is not unlike many other kids that are receiving semiautomatic weapons for christmas, so that's another problem that we have here. >> katie, i'm curious because
the parents are charged right now. >> yeah. >> but again, the school made the decision to send this kid back into the classroom. i'm not suggesting they should be charged, but as an attorney, i'm curious your thoughts. are there other people who should be charged in this scenario? >> so i heard you ask that to shaq and the prosecutor kind of did a little bit of a dance on it. i did find it to be odd that they have him searching for ammo, they find a note with the blood and talking about killing and everything, and then they bring the parents in and if the parents don't take the kid out of school, even though they should have. now, the legal standard to be able to search, because that's what i wanted to know, what did the school officials do to search him? you have to have reasonable grounds to search the person and property of a student while the student is on school groundings. the reasonable grounds have to be is there a violation of a school rule. clearly having a firearm or ammunition on school grounds would be that violation. so i'm surprised that there wasn't more tone. we know that they did active shooter drills all the time at
that school. why weren't there metal detectors. so it may not be criminal charges. there may be some civil exposure there. i think right now what's important is doing that deep dive into his social media, doing a deep dive into that family and finding out how much more did they further, the parents further this kid's obsession with death or guns or whatever to be able to make sure that we have the right people in the bull's-eye, i mean, i guess no pun intended, making sure we have the right people that are prosecuted. i do find it alarming that more wasn't done at the time because it could have been preventable. >> absolutely. the sad thing about all of this is this is not the last time this is going to happen. these school shootings have become a staple. i remember when i was younger it would be a huge deal when there was a school shooting. that doesn't seem to be the case. we've normalized the death of children in this country. your thoughts. >> and we've done it, it's like we're sacrificing our children for our right to own guns, not for our right to own guns. and i want to always be specific
about that, like nobody is saying that we should do away with guns. what we're saying is guns should be more regulated so events like this won't happen, right? you can be pro-gun and pro-regulation. you can be pro-gun and still not want 13, 14, 15-year-olds to be slaughtered at school with no way of escape, right? those two things are not mutually exclusive, and so what we're saying is it's not that we want to give up our guns to keep our kids safe. what we're saying is we want to give up any prospect a safe way to buy guns in order to -- and what we're willing to sacrifice is our kids because no one's going to take away guns. let's be clear. like there is no way that people will give up their guns in this country. no one's ever seriously proposed it. >> there's no legislation right now that even suggests that. so we have a lot more to talk about. my panel's going to stick around
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welcome pack. we're back with even more trending topics and my panel is back with me. i want to start with these fake vaccine cards now showing up everywhere from local businesses to the nfl. three prayers on the tampa bay buccaneers were suspended thursday after they, quote, misrepresented their vaccination status. michael, i want to start with
you here. just for anybody out there who does not know, the vaccination is free, my friends. you're paying money for a fake card. stop doing the dumb stuff. what's your take on all of this, michael harriot? >> well, i think we all know that like wherever there is an opportunity for a scam, somebody will find a way to finesse it and make some money off of it, so whether it's fake vaccine cards or fake credit card numbers. there's always a running scam that somebody has figured out. but the interesting thing to me is like how antonio brown has become the face of this when it was like three people, and we're talking about one guy. and like, if you talk to sports reporters and beat reporters, they'll tell you, oh, this is definitely going on many times across the nfl because they allow the players -- they don't -- the nfl did not
vaccinate players. they allowed players to report their vaccination status. so this is definitely going on across the league, you know, when you talk about 52 players times 30 teams, just like it's going on across america because there are cooky people who are trying to evade this at the expense of the health of everybody around them. that's the interesting part about this to me. you're willing to risk your teammates' life. they don't know the children of the teammates are immuno compromised or, you know, it's so many variables when you're talking about 52 people and the coaches and the staff and the people who fix the lunches, right, you have to take those people into consideration too and their lives and their family lives. >> brenda, listen, i don't trust people like that. this is why i still wear my mask i am still treating this disease like most people are not vaccinated.
it's really, though, a challenge in getting people -- i have to say anytime i post anything about the vaccine i get a flood of conspiracy theorists who thinking their google search is better than the world's best scientists and doctors all across the country. is this something that we can beat? and not the vaccine necessarily but the ignorance, just people's ignorance? >> yeah, yeah, i'm so glad you brought that up because that's really -- what's behind the why? like why won't you take the shot? and it's -- that we're combatting this misinformation, this like complete utter lies and conspiracy theories, so i think that's really what's behind this, like why are you pushed to have to find fake papers? and it's because you are misinformed, and there's this force out there, this very dangerous force that's impacting everything from our health with covid but from, you know, voter education, you know, like we think there's voter fraud when there isn't, so we really have a
greater problem in here, which is the rise of misinformation. and i think that's really what is- i'm more scared of. i'm more afraid of the rise of misinformation than i am about people not getting vaccinated, although both are extremely dangerous: >> yeah, it's kind of insane. i want to move on to a different topic because we have our resident lawyer here on the panel with us. now, they say life imitates art, and now the theatrics of fox's prime time hit "empire" have made it into the courtroom. we have to talk about jussie smollett, and the trial of actor jussie smollett who is accused of faking a hate crime in 2018. smollett is facing six felony counts of disorderly conduct for making a false police report. katie, this entire thing is redonkulus. >> how long ago did this happen, don't you feel like this happened like 20 years ago? >> it's a lifetime ago at this point. just the theatrics that played
out in the courtroom, with the lawyer saying the judge lunged at her. >> the lawyers for mr. smollett said that they were at a side bar, that the judge has been hitting on them the entire time, and during the side bar the judge lunged at the lawyer. now, you know, whether that happened, i'm sure people if they saw it happen, we would have known, but it is kind of crazy that it's now the can we try the case in the court of public opinion. i have a little bit of a news flash. you already have a jury panelled. the defense attorneys try to make it seem like there was some kind of a personal relationship, romantic relationship that went awry, and that was the motivation. i think that smollett's looking at an inevitable conviction, but i do think it's another indication of how as an attorney you can try this case and try to sway public opinion so maybe if he is convicted maybe he could have a future, but right now i don't think it looks very good for him. >> i don't think so either. and michael, i have to tell you when this entire thing happened,
i got to say i wasn't out there like, what? two trump supporters tried to beat up jussie smollett on the south side of chicago when it's two degrees outside, yeah, that's believable. i never really found it a viable story. i think it was so believable because it's not a crazy thing to think that trump supporters hold these thoughts. in this case i had to call bs very early on. what did you think at the time this happened? >> i think -- well, what you felt was what a lot of people felt. i think, you know, when the story first came out, everybody was like, what? all right. i guess that happened, but what, you know, one of the crazy things about this case is that, you know, ultimately they say jussie smollett cost the city of chicago and the criminal justice system of cook county a lot of money. so their solution was to spend a
lot of money prosecuting him. so i think what jussie smollett did was wrong, but like i kind of don't care that he cost the cook county a lot of money because he's like, you know, they shoot people all the time, and then spend a lot of money hiding it or kill a lot of people and spend a lot of money hiding it and hire a lot of lawyers. so like jussie smollett is the least of cook county's fiscal problem, so i kind of don't care. i don't think there were a lot of people who believed it from the beginning. >> yeah, i got to agree. you guys, we even had two blocks with this panel and still ran out of time, so we'll have to have you all back very soon. thank you very much, katie fang, michael harriot, and brenda gonzalez look forward to having you back many times. stacey abrams finally announces her campaign for georgia governor. can she pull it off this time? i think so. we'll dig into that on the other side. the other side
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it's a rainy night in georgia for voter suppression enthusiasts. stacey abrams is making her second bid to be georgia's governor after narrowly losing to governor brian kemp in 2018 under an intentionally flawed voter system designed to favor republicans. >> i did not challenge the outcome of the election, unlike some recent folks did. what i said was that the system was not fair, and leaders challenge systems. leaders say we can do better, and that's what i declared. i could not in good conscience say that in order to protect my political future i'm going to be silent about the political present, which is that we have a system under a leader that sought to keep people from casting their ballots, that threw those ballots out, that said that voter suppression was a viable tactic for winning elections. >> between flipping blue last year and helping to deliver the power of the federal government to democrats, donald trump
feuding with his own acolyte brian kemp and raphael warnock's senate race like to spur voters to the poll. that might lead to a historic victory for abrams, joining me now latosha brown who looks like she's joining us from a winter wonderland and political report for the georgia institution. thank you guys both for joining me. should abrams prevail, she would become the first black woman governor in u.s. history. this would be a really big deal. however, i am concerned about the voter suppression schemes happening there in georgia. brian kemp long-time champion of voter suppression. what needs to happen on the ground there to ensure her victory, senator raphael warnock, and that people have a clear path to the ballot box? >> it is going to be an uphill battle. what we saw in 2018 we didn't have the presence of the bill that was passed last year that
was specifically designed to marginalize black voters and democratic leaning voters in the state. however, some thungs have changed as well. since 2008 we've been able to capture -- the democrats have captured two congressional states, two state senate seats and 12 house of representative seats. i think it's going to be a very competitive race, and i think that she has an amaing opportunity to be able to go in as the first black governor of the state of georgia, and we need newbold leadership. >> yeah, greg, i want to turn to you because stacey abrams has some quite huge endorsements of her, and i want to play a soundbite for you from one of her biggest indoor -- and we will talk about that on the other side of the break. >> when stacey abrams says i'm not going to concede, that's okay, no problem.
oh, she's not going to concede, she's not going to concede, of course having her i think might be better than having your existing governor if you want to know the truth. might very well be better. >> he's pretty much endorsed her, although he's also endorsed herschel walker so i don't know how you balance those two things. what impact will that have on the race, greg? >> this might very well be the biggest test of donald trump's influence midterms. he's still denigrating brian kemp who he endorsed in 2018. he's still fighting this feud with his own party in georgia. he's endorsed an entire slate of republican officeholders for higher office going against incumbents in many cases. republicans are going to continue to war with each other, which is basically a gift for democrats in georgia who have been told about the parallels to virginia. not only is the electorate in
georgia much more diverse than the democratic electorate in virginia, but also republicans here have to worry about this infighting that virginia republicans didn't have to worry about. >> absolute ly. do you think brian kemp surf vooufs the infighting from the republican party? is it guaranteed this is the person abrams will face off with, greg? >> this is maybe the biggest question in georgia politics. former senator david perdue is leaning towards a run. we're not sure if he's going to pull the trigger. he would be a very formidable candidate. he lost to jon ossoff but was with one-term u.s. senator and he would have donald trump's endorsement. at that very same rally, donald trump begged david perdue to run. this infighting is far from over in georgia. >> we can't assume that it will be an abrams kemp remachl. latosha, something interesting about the state where i grew up. you and i talked about this a lot. black voters are the base vote there. black voters represent nearly half of the vote in georgia.
however, latino and asian americans have been key demographics in georgia's registered voter since 2016. this multiethnic coalition of voters there will be quite powerful. will that be enough to leapfrog over the voter suppression schemes, and what kind of activity are you seeing bubbling up right now? >> listen, i have to be honest and say part of the reason why organizations and people like myself and others have been pushing congress to pass federal legislation to protect the right to vote is because we're in an uphill battle that what we're seeing in the state of georgia, the republicans are using every trick possible to be able to weaponize administrative process to take over election boards. they have actually drawn a district in the last ten years, what the sensor shows us that 100% of the population growth in the state of georgia have been communities of color, yet, they have created and drawn a destruct that they have an advance, right, of districts in the staut. that is how much they're willing
to go and cheat. the good thing is as you said there are more people who are engaging, there is a broad base, multiracial, multigenerational coalition working for the last decade. we saw the results in 2020. we saw many of the results on local races in 2021, and we'll continue to see the strength of those voters. we need to have federal legislation to protect to make sure that the republicans are not weaponizing the administrative process against the growth attacking here. >> and i want to correct our banner there, it is black, latino and asian american voters there. the asian american community in georgia is a powerful, fast, quickly growing voting block there. atlanta has a new mayor, andre dickens, comes from the city council. he was just elected this week. what impact do you think that will have? a lot of people think of georgia as atlanta and, you know, atlanta is just a city. georgia is a big territory
surrounded by a lot of red specks there. i'm curious what impact his election might have. >> it was a sign atlanta's electorate is becoming more progressive. he came from those progress uf roots. he had endorsements from predecessors. he was an atlanta city councilman. he's coming in with some big ideas, and some very progressive ideas about affordable housing, income inequality, criminal justice, he had endorsements from many of atlanta's and georgia's main democratic leaders because of those ideas, and his first real mission is to reset relations with state republican leaders who are trying to basically pass legislation that would deannex about a fifth of the city, the wealthy, white north part of the city. >> we will have a lot to talk about in the coming months when it relates to georgia. i look forward to having you both back many times. thank you so much, latosha brown
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take a soothing vicks vapo moment wherever you chose. let's talk about a heavy top topic but it's very important, and that's suicide particularly among teens of color. over the past two decades, the numbers of black adolescents reporting that they had attempted suicide road by 80%, and the numbers for other communities were also bleak. now, the reasons for this disparity are complex and under research, but pay attention because someone you may know might be crying out for help in ways that might not be obvious. joining me now, dr. michael lindsey, he's the executive director of the nyu sober institute for poverty, policy, and research, also a mor more houseman and jordan burnham, a speaker on mental health and suicide prevention. thank you for being here. jordan, i'll start with you because you are a survivor of a suicide attempt, and now you go across the country. something i found interesting in
preparing for this segment is the suicide questionnaires ask have you been having thoughts of suicide and what people respond is you don't always have those thoughts. sometimes it is a decision that you make in the momentment talk a little bit about that. >> yeah, i think for that -- and first off, thank you for having me, tiffany. for that for me when i was in high school and i was dealing with depression and i was struggling a lot with thinking about suicide, i didn't necessarily have a plan, but i had feelings of i don't know if i want to be here. would people be better off if i wasn't here. i don't necessarily want to die, but i want that pain to die, and i think sometimes that's hard for kids to articulate, especially at a young age. >> of course, and you know, your brain is still developing, so dr. mike as i call you, i want to bring you in on this conversation. a part of the reason why we don't really quite understand this is because there are not a
lot of psychiatrists or psychologists who look like you, and you know, i think that has an adverse impact on teens. what causes this, and why do you think it's disproportionate? it's not just black teens, i think leading the numbers are native american, indigenous folks spike when it comes to suicide, latino people in this country have spiked when it comes to suicide. so why do you think it's specific to these groups? >> well, i think you have to talk about the lack of access to mental health services, typically among ethnic minorities. there's a stigma related to mental illness. there's also a stigma related to receive mental health services. oftentimes, tiffany, there's a misinterpretation of the symptoms, and so kids might express that they're having headaches or stomachaches or if a kid is being bad per se,
right, that gets misconstrued as a conduct issue and not a mental health problem, and so i think that that becomes problematic with respect to why kids are not connected to treatment services. i do think that there is, as the statistic you put up is real indicative of the fact that we need more practitioners of color to come into the fields because oftentimes it is the case that ethnic minorities feel safer to be able to go to someone that looks like them to talk about their issues and to have this sort of perception that going to that person is going to help them. >> yeah, and you know, look, students of color who are lgbtq, these numbers spike significantly, so that's also an underrepresented group in some of the research and data. i want to go back to jordan because, you know, there's this thought -- and i've heard this
so many times. i've had so many heated intense debates and arguments where people feel like black folks, we don't kill ourselves. that's not a thing that we do, and it feeds into a narrative that is simply not true. you know, i think -- if somebody's not necessarily feeling suicidal, but they do feel like they have trouble managing life, managing what's going on, like how you felt. what's your advice to those people who feel alone and unheard? >> yeah, i think with that we get into a lot of trouble with language a lot, especially when it comes to suicide because if we think that suicide and mental illness is a white thing, then we'll think that mental wellness and therapy and coping skills is a white thing. and so it's important to be able to recognize that we are included in that conversation, and the one thing that i'm asked a lot is why don't black people talk about mental health. and my biggest thing is that for a long time the black experience
wasn't included in the conversation of mental health, and so black experience being the fact that, yes, it's very difficult to find a therapist that mirrors your skin color and background. the black experience is looking down at your phone, one of my friends text me and said have you seen a video, and i know what that means as a black man. the black experience involves so many things, especially intergenerational trauma, and so because that was not included in the mental health discussion, then therefore it wasn't talking about mental health. >> right, right. >> but i hope that we're able to see that now. so that's the biggest thing, and anything -- going back to your question in terms of advice that i can give, i always tell people all the time, it's about today, and today starts with one conversation, and it's not an easy one, but it's an important one. >> yeah, absolutely. dr. mike, and charlamagne tha god i have to say has done a lot work in this space and normalizing having these conversations. dr. mike, before i let you go,
death by suicide is also a lot more common among boys than it is girls. why the gender disparity? >> well, i think you have to talk about the sort of experiences that boys might have, for example, as i mentioned earlier if there's a conduct issue, then that boy is likely to be suspended or expelled from school. now, we know that this is happening among black girls as well, but typically it's disproportionate to black boys. so i think that that's part of the sort of gender disparity. you want to point out, though, tiffany, we're starting to see more and more that girls, their engagement in suicide behaviors and actually death related to suicide is on the rise, and so this sort of gender disparity is starting to -- is sort of go away in the sense that we think it's one gender versus another. it's important to really look at what's happening across boys and
girls to ensure that they get the support they need. >> yeah, absolutely. thank you so much for talking about this heavy topic. thank you to dr. michael lindsey and jordan burnham. if you or a loved one need help, please know you can call the national suicide prevention lifeline at any time. that number is 1-800-273-8255. and coming up next, he was a beloved designer and disrupter in the fashion industry. virgin ablow passed away this week after a battle with cancer. we're going to discuss his life and legacy after the break. and legacy after the break ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion. 24-hour hydration. no parabens, dyes, or fragrances. gold bond. champion your skin. want your clothes to smell freshly washed all day without heavy perfumes? dyes, or fragrances. try new downy light in-wash scent beads. it has long-lasting light scent, no heavy perfumes, and no dyes. finally, a light scent that lasts all day. new downy light!
you guys are born at a very awesome, distinct time. like, i think that this is the renaissance: don't get sort of trapped into like this everything sucks, the world is like coming to an end. you can like wake up every day and come up with excuses, but it's exactly the opposite. >> i did not ever think that i could be a designer with a capital d because no one looked like me. >> to me, the 17-year-old version of myself didn't think that this was possible, so every day that i'm able to sort of like make an idea and see it come out, that's enough fulfillment. >> it was not only fulfillment
for virgil abloh but for his massive following as well. he was heralded as the new voice of a generation. he created the renowned brand off white and rose to the top of the exclusive fashion world. he was the first ever black artistic director for louis vuitton men's war. he was described as an endlessly creative fashion and was compared to andy warhol to jeff kuntsz. joining me to discuss his legacy is mitchell s. jackson, the winner of the 2021 pulitzer prize for feature writing and he's a contributing writer for "esquire" and that's where i read his amazing pace on virgil abloh. mitchell, you say that virgil abloh designed for his 17-year-old self and that you rocked his gear for your 17-year-old self. say more about that. >> yeah, first thank you for having me. yeah, i -- you know, by the time
virgil came out, i was well into my 30s, but there was, you know, a part of me that remembers being, you know, 11, 12, into my teens and having to shop at a secondhand store for some of my school clothes or, you know, whenever i wanted to go get fresh, and i kind of still buy fashion with that 17-year-old, 13-year-old self in mind in terms of not wanting to feel like you have to buy the secondhand item. and so i think that was something that virgil understood, like how to create and how to respond to the need of a young person and how to kind of keep thinking like a young person no matter what age you were. >> yeah, and i love that he didn't take the traditional path to design. you know, he was a deejay. he had this huge social media following, but so much about what we do, you know, being the
drivers of the culture across the globe, you know, what happens in this country on street corners has an impact on fashion in milan, in paris. and especially for sneaker heads, virgil abloh was the stuff of legends. talk about his path and why he was such a legend. i'm not a sneaker head, i'll say, but i'm curious for those who are why he was so legendary. >> well, you know, i think for one he was really a part of the culture. he grew up in skateboarding culture and hip-hop culture, so i think that's -- you can't fake that. i feel like he understood the kids who were kind of driving the culture. i also think he kept his finger on the pulse of it. i think about like all the designers that had to come before virgil, right? if we think about a guy like carl ka nigh or dapper dan or even like fubu. when i think of fubu and the
kind of mantra, for us, by us, i think virgil understood that it was by us, but i think he also wanted his brand to be for the world. and i feel like that kind of ambition is the kind of ambition that drives sneaker culture, right? they actually created a culture that did not exist, and that's really kind of predicated on not what's now but what's next. >> yeah, i completely agree. so listen, you know, in his death, which is so sad, he was the most powerful black person in fashion. his position at louis vuitton had him work across the group's 75 brands. now that he's gone, i do wonder what that pipeline is like, you know. is there opportunity for the next virgil abloh to ascend given, again, that we drive so many parts of the culture, particularly in fashion. >> well, i think he believed that. i was doing a little more research on him earlier, and i didn't know that in his first louis vuitton show that he
actually invited with all the celebrities 1,500 students. and if you were to research virgil, you go back, he's constantly giving lectures and even the deck that you had leading into this interview, like, he really was a person who was championing the next generation of creators, and i also feel like something that's important about him is that he didn't necessarily consider himself a designer but a maker, and i think that that kind of, again, ambition like, you know, he just mercedes just showed off his concept, so i feel like he certainly saw his role as kind of ushering in the next generation. hopefully the people in power are the same people that gave him the seat at that table will see that vision of his and execute it. >> ert that. that's right when you get that
seat at the table, pull up a chair for somebody next to you. you have an interesting story as well. you'll have to come back on "the cross connection,". coming up tomorrow, white house principle deputy press secretary, karine jean-pierre, my friend will join my other friend and colleague jonathan capehart, tune in at 10:00 a.m. tomorrow right here on msnbc, and we'll be right back. safe drivers can save using snapshot? -what's snapshot? -what the commercial was about. -i tune commercials out. -me too. they're always like blah, blah blah. tell me about it. i'm going to a silent retreat next weekend. my niece got kicked out of one of those. -for talking? -grand larceny. how about we get back to the savings? [ everyone agreeing ] people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes how about we get back to the savings? are waking up to what's possible... ...with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪)
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10:00 a.m. eastern live from l.a. be sure to tune in next week. now stay tuned because my amazing friend alex witt has the latest. i'm right next door, we're matching, i'm coming to hug you. >> i know, and you're going through my hood, l.a. is my hometown. if you need a restaurant recommendation, i'm good for that, my friend. >> i do, thank you. i'll hit you up on that. >> we'll make a date sometime. have a good week, we'll see you then from l.a. and a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. it is high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with the breaking news out of michigan. the parents of the oxford school shooting suspect making their first court appearance today. all right, well, james and jennifer crumbley both pleading not guilty to all four counts of involuntary manslaug