tv The Rachel Maddow Show MSNBC November 29, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
in a world war. add all that up and suddenly fewer people see democracy as worth fighting for. it's part of the slow death of both truth and consequences. and that thanks to at-home for joining us this, our really happy to have you here at this monday night hoping at a good holiday weekend. as of tonight, midnight tonight on the eastern most island in the caribbean, this older woman. you might recognize. will no longer be the head of state. as of the stroke of midnight tonight, queen elizabeth will
no longer be, among her other titles, the queen of barbados. as of tonight, midnight, there will no longer be a queen of barbados. we will have a new head of state in that country. she will be the first ever president of barbados. she is here on the right side of your queen. her name is sandra mason. sandra mason is currently the governor general of barbados, that technically means she's been the top representative of the queen. but tonight, that job goes away, barbados will cease to have a queen, or a king for that matter, it will become as of tonight, a republican independent with the president and a prime minister, it will no longer be a monarchy. and, i should message, this is a friendly transition. prince charles, who is next in line for the british throne, when his mother's rain is, over he will be in there in barbados. for the ceremony that will mark the transition. barbados will keep its name, its flag and its dollar and its
national anthem. there will be some changes right away, right now there are police forces for the royal barbados police force. that will change. because they will no longer be royal. instead they will be the barbados police service as of tonight of midnight. barbados became a colony of the british empire, 394 years ago and 16 27. barbados is where they solidify the sugar plantation model of slavery. where in slaved people were work to death at an inhumanly unfathomable pace. by some scholarly account, on the early barbados sugar plantation, the life expectancy of people enslaved to work on those plantations was 18 years. 18 years is not the length of time they spent working on the plantation, that was the average length of their life, period. under that form of slavery. 18 year olds life expectancy.
that is the worsening life expectancy for enslaved people anywhere in the world at anytime in the world. barbados had multiple slave rebellion's, including several uprising in the early 18 hundreds, but slavery was not abolished under the british empire until 1834. so that is more than 200 years of brutal, brutal slavery in barbados. and it was not until more than 100 years after that, in the 1960s, that barbados stopped being a british colony. 1966, november 30th, 1966, is officially barbados independence day. it is the day they became a constitutional monarchy. with their own independent government, but still under the queen. under the british queen, as their head of state. well tonight, as the clock strikes midnight, and we go from november 29th, to november 30th, barbados independence day, tonight barbados will hit the 55th anniversary of the day the island gained its own
independent government under the british monarch, as its head of state. but on this independence day, tonight for the first-time, they will drop them or knock. and stand-alone for the first time as an independent republic. i and for context this is not a thing that happens all the time. and there are a lot of countries, large and small, that still have the queen technically as their head of state. this decision that barbados has me tonight, this is something for example that canada has thought about doing from time to time. but they have never done. it queen elizabeth is still there head of state. it is weird but, do yourself a favor, google the phrase queen of canada, a pops liz, hi. there is a queen of canada. you forget these things. what's barbados's doing tonight is also something that australia held a national referendum, on as recent as 1999. but that referendum lost, and so queen elizabeth is still
there head of state as well. if you can, both queen of australia, once again, there she is. queen elizabeth, queen of australia. but tiny barbados population 285,000 they will make their break as of midnight. there will no longer be a queen of barbados. neither elizabeth or anyone else. changes are, change seems impossible until change happens. it's kind of an amazing thing, what are you doing with your monday after thanksgiving? barbados is leaving the british mark are key. that's what they're doing. what's on your to do this? tonight we have a lot of news that we are watching in addition to that midnight ceremony coming up to the caribbean. our government here in the united states, for example, is due to run out of money and shut down at the end of the week. on friday. unless congress acts to over the. our supreme court is convening the day after tomorrow to hear arguments on the case that have
been teamed up to overturn roe v. wade, a case that was argued before a group of justices chosen by republican presidents, specifically to overturn roe v. wade. again, this is a mississippi abortion ban case that will be heard the day after tomorrow, it will be heard on wednesday morning. but, the court won't rule away, that will take some matter of weeks or months. with that said we are not naive, we know with the purpose of this case is and we know why republicans picked the particular justice the pick to be on the supreme court. it is frankly a matter of preparing for to return for american. women having to seek out a legal abortions, instead of having the right to get one. being protected by court. republicans have already succeeded in banning abortions, effectively in the state of texas since september 1st of this year. and now here comes for every other state that have republicans in control of the government.
again there's supreme court will be next morning, and we don't know exactly when the court will rule. but we have pretty great expectations for when that -- will mean. tomorrow, before that, we are expecting arguments in a federal appeals court, the court one level before the supreme court. form the question of whether or not records and documents from the trump white house have to be handed over to the january six investigation. this comes to us as more former trump officials appear to be looking at potential prosecution by the justice department, for refusing to testify to that investigation. again, a federal appeals court will be hearing arguments in that tomorrow morning, but we will have more on that situation coming up a little bit on tomorrow late on the night -- as we are watching all of the stories, who among us did not experience our thanksgiving inflating stomachs. following a few floors, it will be learned over this new variant, this new variant of the coronavirus.
the experience was first reported, to the world health organization by authorities in south africa, just five days ago. it has reportedly become the dominant strain of the virus, in south africa already. the w.h.o. has made a formal announcement, a formal proclamation that this is a, quote, variants of concern. tell me about it. but as new travel bans go into effect around the world. because of omicron as the cdc changes its recommendations tonight, along say that americans may get boosters for the vaccine, but instead, the cdc is saying that americans should get boosters for their vaccine. the same fundamental questions are still out there. keeping our stomachs flipping or dropping, and potentially shaping our futures in terms of how important this is going to be for what comes next. i, mean the basic questions, or some of these may be more answerable than they were over the weekend, we are going to get expert advice, to answer some of these as best as we can in just a second. but in terms of what i've been
worried about, or at least the ones that i understand better, first of all they say that there is a large number of mutations in this variant. and a large number compared to other non variants like the delta variant. right? why is that bad? why is that worse to have large numbers? of the mutation, in particular if they appear to be a large number of mutations on the spike protein. we know that the spike protein is what was targeted by vaccine makers, as effectively the way to activate our immune system against these types of viruses. if the spike protein is significantly mutate did, is that why there is concerns as to why the vaccine may not be effective at activating our immune system against this -- virus? for that matter how long is it going to take to know if our vaccines work against this virus? we know that they are testing it right now. the report in the new york times today say that scientists in south africa started within
one hour of the mutation force being reported. the variant first being described, within one hour they were already starting to try and test the effectiveness of various vaccine, that we already got, against this. how long will that testing take? if the vaccine that we've got aren't effective against this new omicron variant. how long will it take to build new vaccines, that will work against it? for that matter, and this is something that is just as recent as of tonight, with the cdc changing its, advice telling americans that we should get boosters of our expected vaccine. why is the cdc telling us that we should get boosters of our existing vaccines now, before we know if our existing vaccines actually work against this variant? the basic question of also whether this is more dangerous? if you get infected with the omicron variant of the coronavirus, is it more likely to make you sick? is it more likely to make you really sick? or to kill you? do we know that yet? do we have enough data for a
number of people who have been affected with a yet to know whether it has it clinically different manifestation? also, do we know if it is more or less subsist a bowl to treatments than the other variants are? we don't have a ton of treatments against the coronavirus, but we've got monoclonal antibody treatment, and we've got this promising anti viral pill from pfizer. do we know if those treatments also work well against this variant? if we don't know that, yet how long will it take to figure it out? what about testing? did test work just as well to detect this variant as they work against other variants on the virus? is that an issue? and finally as a policy matter, do the travel bans makes sense? we've got countries all over the world putting travel bans in effect after this was first detected in a reported from south africa. but it is already been found all over the place, israel, uk, canada, the netherlands, a whole bunch of other countries. does banning travel from some places actually do anything? have we learned anything about it as a best practice or
otherwise? in our experience with the coronavirus in its various mutations thus far? i have all of these questions. you may have some of these questions as well. i am prepared to be talked out of the feeling in my stomach care about this variant but i've got these questions to ask before i'm going to let that happen. luckily, i'm very pleased to say, joining us now is doctor david -- he is a former fda commissioner, he is not the chief science officer for the white house covid-19 response doctor kessler is always on a tough time with you thank you for being here. tonight particularly on a night when i think many americans have basic questions about this. >> fire way rachel, i'm ready to answer all of your questions. >> all right, thank you. let me just ask you the first question i ask. we have had it described to us, this new variant as having a very large number of mutations. a large number of mutations specifically affecting the spike protein, which has been a real target for the development
of our vaccines. can you tell us why a large number of mutations is worrying? why that is bad? why the spike protein mutation themselves might be wearing or bad? >> we have some experience with some of those mutations as we've seen some of those mutations in other variants and there is mutations that can affect transmissibility and they can affect how well our vaccines work. there is a lot that we still need to learn. you need to learn about transmissibility against delta, severity, how will in fact the vaccine isn't therapeutic will perform. there is early data from south africa that suggests that there's increase transmissibility of the omicron variant. but we should not jump to any conclusion. this is still very early days with this variant. ask your next question. >> well in terms of what you just said about how, figuring out it's acceptable to the
vaccine. and whether or not it's responsive to anti viral or antibody treatment, how long do you think it will be before we have answers to those questions about the effectiveness of the vaccine and also the treatment questions? >> with regard to the effectiveness of the vaccine, i would expect that we would probably need at least two weeks in therapeutics. i would guess that we are about four weeks -- we are setting up the essays, i've talked to a number of the laboratories, we've got to get the virus, to make a pseudo-virus so that we can handle it. then we contested. and then we will know exactly what the effectiveness is. but we need about 2 to 4 weeks to get there, to get answers. >> and what about the treatment options that we've got? >> very important. we have two important set of treatment options, monoclonal, which you and i have talked about. and we've got a number of model
clones. i think there may be a differential response, we've got to be prepared to each one of the monoclonals will work exactly the same. some may work well others may drop out. with regard to the anti virus, none of those are yet authorized, ftas gotta consider the first one tomorrow you and i have talked about this, and you and i understand the importance of anti viral, certainly an hiv and i do think that they can be getting change. the good news is that it doesn't appear to be significant mutations that would affect how those antivirals work. but again, we have to see. >> if there is bad news in terms of the effectiveness of the vaccines, if it appears that this variant defeats the vaccines essentially, or evades them in some way. and new vaccines, or new boosters need to be developed. is the new mrna technology that led to the moderna and pfizer
vaccines, such that those new vaccines, or new boosters could be made quickly. and by asking it in those terms, i guess i should ask you to tell me how quickly? >> the answer is yes and we have the tools to handle this. we can do this quickly. again, let's not jump to any conclusions. but you know as rachel. we are planning and we have been planning for all of these scenarios. and again, no decisions have been made. but if and when we need to do that, we are probably several months before we can have enough vaccines. a relatively short period of time. nothing like the first go around. we can do this quickly, we have the tools. >> why is the cdc's telling us now that we should get our boosters of our existing vaccines now, before we know with those existing vaccines work well against this variant? or do we know enough of how they were, to think that they
might be partially effective, even if we don't have a complete picture yet? >> very well said. we know from every variant that we have dealt with, that the more neutralizing antibodies you have on board, the more affective those vaccines are against variants. and we expect, even if it's not perfect, that certainly the more neutralizing antibodies, the fact that you are boosted, the greater protection you can have. let me just step back for a second. because i want to -- look, i understand the concern. i understand the need for vigilance. but let me deal with that in your stomach. i think that the -- to be very direct, the biggest problem i have tonight, it's not the variant. it's about getting everyone vaccinated and boosted. you are right, there is news tonight, the cdc upped its
recommendations. everyone 18 and older should get boosted. if you are sitting out there tonight and you've been vaccinated, but you have not been boosted. this is the time. it is certainly not going to hurt the light gray help. we will see how much it will help. but please go get boosted. certainly, if you haven't been vaccinated, that is our biggest battle. getting everyone vaccinated. that right now is what is going to save the most lives. >> if this variant that we are talking about does somehow change the contours of the epidemic in this country, and the pandemic globally. one of the things that we are going to need to know, is whether our testing regime still make sense. is there any difference in terms of our effectiveness of our tests. something like this. we will also need to know, very basically and i think this is
part of what freaked a lot of people out, certainly freaked me out reading the first reports of the w.h.o. this weekend. was the prospect that eventually, whether it's not this, or one in the future, is that one of these variants going to be more deadly? is it going to be something where you get worse symptoms? you are more likely to get very sick, or more likely to get to be killed by these things. it seems like we don't know yet whether this variant is that kind of -- has that kind of a difference, with the other type of variants we've seen. i think part of the reason that we all got worried is that it feels like this thing is going to keep mutating in a way that change is so much about the way we have to deal with it, including vaccines and all of those things. is it ultimately going to mutate in a way that makes it profoundly more dangerous to humanity? >> we have a lot more tools. we are in a very different place today than we where we started. you raise an important point. we are learning more about how these -- where these viruses mutate.
one of the things that is of concern, but it's also good news, but we really have to attend to. something you and i dealt with, go back 20 years ago. the immunocompromised people, wherever they are, can incubate the virus for months on end. they are amino suppression needs to be treated. for example, if you have hiv, you need to be treated with antiviral drugs. we have -- we know a lot more, so we can with therapy decrease the chance of these variants happening in the future. it's going to take a lot of work rachael. >> doctor kessler, in terms of where we are right now, with you in the team at the white house, the biden administration, i know that this is a matter of intense concern and it's not like you guys were's lacking on the job anyways in terms of working against the covid pandemic in trying to get everybody vaccinated. bottom line, do you feel like
we are going to have to change course significantly as a country as this variant emerges, as future variants emerge, or do we keep applying the same tools the same way that we have been? even as the problem seems to get more complex, more violent really interesting, the ways we have to defeat it effectively stay the same. >> we have the tools to handle this. we may have to fine-tune those tools, we may have to adapt those tools, we do not have to change our course. we are going to have to make sure that we convince each other to take advantage of those tools. those tools a vaccination, of boosting and i hope the antivirals that we see. i don't want to get ahead of the fda in the coming weeks. but i think that they can be game-changing. i think the good news is that we have additional tools to our -- let's just use the tool we have
widely. >> doctor david kessler is the chief science officer of the white house's covid-19 response, former fda commissioner. doctor kessler as i said, it is always an honor to have your time, especially on a night when i think a lot of americans have so many questions. thank you so much sir. >> thank you rachel. >> i should underscore with doctor kessler said about the fda advisory group tomorrow, considering the first of those two antiviral pills. these are treatments. that are going to the fda for potential approval. the first one is the mark pill, which is going to the fda advisory panel to more. after that it will be the pfizer one, to show even more effectiveness in clinical trials. that will be an important addition to what we have to fight this. this scourge. have a lot more ahead tonight, stay with us. stay with us for people living with h-i-v, keep being you. and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill,
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would come back even bigger and better. do you consider bring him back into your administration? i would certainly consider. i >> think he's a fine man. >> would you have him back into the white house? >> i would, i think he's a great gentleman. >> he's a great gentleman, of course he'd be back in the white house. while president trump was
running for reelection last year, he talked more than once about how in a hypothetical second trump administration, he would gladly welcome back his grace graced national security adviser mike flynn. who of course pled guilty twice two felony charges. trump ultimately pardon flynn on his way out the door. he didn't get that second trump term, at least not yet. if there ever is one, mike flynn will be back in their. because he is such a great gentleman. in the meantime, while we all await those happy days, what has retire general mike flynn, potential official in a future trump administration, what has he been up to? >> somebody sent me a thing this morning where they're talking about putting the vaccine into sala dressing. have you seen this? >> yes. >> i'm thinking to myself, this is a bizarre world. this is definitely a bizarre world. >> have you seen? this have you seen this? the solid dressing thing. oh yes, who hasn't seen that.
but the government forcing the covid vaccine into all of us, in our precious, precious sala dressing. that's the way to get everyone. that's not the only interesting idea that general mike flynn has been publicly propounding recently. also a demand that the united states has to have only one religion. one religion for the whole country. one nation under god, needs one religion under god. and of course, all of this comes after general flynn, we don't know, spent weeks after the 2020 election advocating that president trump should declare martial law. he should have u.s. military sees voting machines across the country. have the military around the election in places trump lost. later publicly endorsed the idea that the united states should have a flat out military coup. where the military just outs the civilian government and takes over. he was asked about that in the context of a military coup in myanmar earlier this year. he should we should have one of those here to.
but, aside from those sort of headline making moments. with general flynn is really most pin up to over the past couple years here. would essentially seems to be his job these days, what he spends his time on, things he is quite prepared lee monetizing to great effect. is his role as a prominent endorser of the qanon conspiracy theory. sort of mass delusion among trump supporters in which they believe the democratic party, government and also hollywood maybe, are run by a couple of blood drinking, satanic, pedophiles. who will all be massacred in a public execution by donald trump when he brings the storm. and therefore, donald trump must be restored to power immediately to kill all of the same worshippers who are running the world. mike flynn these days is i think -- the biggest qanon senate celebrity. that there is but to define that term. there's them posting a video of
his family members were citing the oath of allegiance to qanon. that he is launched a merchandise site about a year ago, that futures qanon themed products. showed up at multiple, multiple qanon conferences. auctioned off qanon themed items at those conferences, like this cute quilt. by the way the lucky winner of that auction would not just get the quilt, they would get the quill signed by mike flynn. like the my pillow guy and the lawyer lynn, woods had been sanctioned by a federal. judge for filing frivolous election for a lawsuit, search and get the 2020 elections results returned. but recently that has been a turn in this world. all is not, will be amongst these qanon celebrities, just a few months ago, there they all, are signing quotes to get there, for money. but lately the qanon world has been concerned by internal friday. an attorney i mentioned, linda wood, has accused other qanon and trump world figures of
running a grift. or being part of the evil deep state plaid throughout the third supposed to be fighting. one of the people he seizes matter is mike flynn. and in that context, mr. wood is not released what he calls a supporting of a pro conversation between him and general flynn. and which flynn is her to disparage the whole qanon ideology. gasp. [laughs] all we know is not totally ingenuous, that the public has been adopted. to be clear, i have to tell you we have not been independently -- to verify this audio, we have reached double to mr., wood and general flynn today, but we haven't heard back, we also don't know when this audit was, reported all the general flynn appears to reference an article that was published at the end of this, month but in this call that lin wood claims to have recorded, here's what mike flynn had to say about qanon, brace yourself.
>> i think it's a disinformation campaign. i think it's a different formation campaign that the cia created. that is what i believe now. that's what i believe. now i don't know what it is. i think it's a -- i think it's a disinformation camp -- there is actually a very interesting article today out there that was sent to. me i'll send it to, you about how the qanon movement has failed and all that. but i, i find it, you know, total nonsense and i think it's a different formation campaign created by the left. >> created by the left. the disinformation campaign, that's former trump national security adviser now qanon darling, night flynn talking smack about qanon on a phone call reported and released by another qanon celebrity who is fighting with mike flynn, and fighting with a bunch of other trump world folks. and pass the popcorn. it is always fun to see guys like this fighting with each other, particularly when you think about how destructive the qanon mask illusion has been to a lot of people who have been
sucked down into it. to people who are hoping for the sort of demise and ultimate discrediting of these people, and this delusion that they've been promoting for fun and profit. this sort of internet science squabbling, is delicious, right? >> but there is a substantive question here. if what we are seeing is a fracturing going on in the far far right of the trump supporting world. right? so many of the people the january 6th attack were qanon adherence or qanon partners or qanon koreans. so many people who have turned up in the darkest corners of the trump supporting world have tracked this queue stuff with them. if we are seeing a fracturing in that world, is that purely good news in terms of the collapse of this mask allusion. or might it actually also be kind of a dangerous moment? i mean, this article mike flynn was reportedly referring to in this call. the one that he says this about how the qanon movement has failed. that article, for context, says
the answer to the failure of qanon is that we need to just turn to violence. is the movement fracturing? if the movement is fracturing, is that a mix of good and bad? how do people who studied this stuff, and more expert on the, stuff and have reported a deeply, see this is a moment of potential promise or peril? joining us now is will. he is a reporter for the daily beast, he is the author of the forthcoming book called, trust the plan, the rise of qanon and the conspiracy that reshaped america. it is coming out next spring. mr. summer, thank you so much for joining us tonight, it's a real pleasure to have you here. >> thank you for having me. >> let me ask for us if you think that i'm asking the right question, and if i sort of frame this appropriately in terms of the various people involved. and will kind of moment this is in the qanon world. >> sure, this is a moment of real tunnel right now. linwood has, who is a real qanon star has turned on people like sydney powell and michael flynn most importantly.
so this is really kind of a crust. lynn has many minions or associate who are lesser lights of qanon. and they're all turning on michael flynn, between this audio he gave a weird prayer that he claimed -- is a sweetness. this is the classic qanon thing, is that claiming that people are safeness. so there is a big civil war going on. and i think that this is an issue that a lot of people have to face in their personal lives. >> is the dynamic that you are describing sort of in inevitable -- do you feel like it's inevitable crossroad that it's coming to because it was built on prophesy's that, you know, had specific dates and specific factual predictions attached to them that, you, know didn't come true. is this is sort of crossroad that was going to happen because this movement was sort of built on promises that it couldn't keep? or is this a product of personality and this is less
predicted in terms of how this is going to result in the future? >> sure, you are right on the money that the qanon from the start has been promising trump supporters and other people who have been brought into it, this sort of utopian moment. within the first week of qanon and back into october 2017, is that hillary clinton was going to be arrested. well obviously that didn't happen. but maybe it did, or so they believe. the come to believe that maybe the hillary clinton that we see today is a clone. and it sort of gets more and more bizarre and people like michael flynn and the signing on to all this permutation but really qanon has proven itself to be really resilient. i think after january six when all the qanon people were kicked off of main social media platform, a lot of people thought that that would be the end of it. after january 20 when biden was inaugurated people thought that would be the end. but when i find out from talking to people who have the daily members that they, loss qanon, talk to a pollster that said qanon has never been more
popular in her polls. a fellow republican. really, it continues moving, and i think figures like michael flynn, and woods, would take a slice of, it i move it into their own direction, sort of the people this idea of the secret world and that trump is coming back someday. they really keep it going. >> is the support for trump a constant in the qanon world? i have been surprised to see that some of the people who i thought were inexplicable from the conspiracy, people like the, people like sydney, people who have so much attention in that world. i've been surprised to see them throw some of them off at least from the movement. 's support for trump, a constant or is that also at play as the movement goes through this crust moment as you describe it. >> sure, well so far, they are all in on trump. they love trump. trump has won that loyalty not
just by doing things that the qanon believed by policy wise. but by never denouncing qanon. we saw during the presidential campaign, when he said, you know these people think we're going after pedophiles? well maybe we are? what would be wrong with that? and sort of doing this dance. and by praising people like michael flynn who have always winked qanon. so when they're on board, i think that until he comes out and dissembles them, they're going to continue to believe in him. people think that outside of qanon think that we can call them the defect by trump. this is a picture of trump with jeffrey, qanon hates pedophile, like jeffrey have steam, but, then they say, well actually trump is going undercover to take down jeffrey. so these rationalizations up people fine, they continue to have this undying loyalty to trump. it apparently never cease. >> i mean, i feel like somebody sort of outside of this, looking in on it. the one thing that it always seems to me is a cultish manifestation of trump support. rather than being a cult that
exists on its own that happens to attach itself to trump. it does feel endemic to the phenomenon. but that will be tested overtime. as all of these things have been. will sommer, reporter from the daily beast. thank you for helping us understand this very where moment, we really appreciate you being here. >> thank you for having me. >> all right, we have more news ahead, stay with us. ead, stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. ever notice how stiff clothes experience the power can feel rough on your skin? it's because they rub against you creating friction. and your clothes rub against you all day. for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle. just pour into the rinse dispenser and downy
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without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you. court is going to hear all arguments on whether the former president trump's record from this time in the white house should be turned over to the january six investigation. former president trump has already lost despite at the lower courts, tomorrow the d.c. circuit court will hear his appeal. if he loses this case again, tomorrow, he is running out of courts. united states supreme court would be the next and final stop for him. meanwhile, the january six investigative are scheduled to meet on wednesday, the day after tomorrow, to consider whether or not federal contempt charges should be recommended for yet another trump administration official. last month, the recommended
that the justice department should charge trump advisor, steve bennett, the justice department has now indicted steve bannon, brought charges against him. this next time, it's going to be jeffrey clark. he is the justice department official who, with trump reportedly cooked up a plan to try and use the power of the justice department to block the election result from being counted. on top of the charges, already, pending for bending and the charges it looks like are about to be reprimanded for jeffrey clark. congressman adam schiff, is part of the investigation said this week that members will, also this week, consider a criminal contempt referral for trump white house chief of staff, mark meadows. who, like jeffrey clark and steve bannon has refused to cooperate with the investigation. joining us now is pete, democratic of california, he's a member of the january six investigation. congressman, a pleasure to have you here, thanks for making time. >> thanks for having me. >> so we've got these oral arguments at the d.c. circuit court, how important are president trump's white house records to the investigation,
there is no way to know how the courts are going to handle this from here on out, particularly if this goes to the supreme court. would it be a critical factor for your investigation if ultimately, you weren't able to get these trump white house records? >> we've said all along that we want to tell the full and complete story. in order to do that, we are going to need documents were going to need interviews and so clearly that is what is helpful about the document requests. and national archives requests, so we are pleased at the time when a court is addressing this and the team here will be arguing that before the court appeals tomorrow. so, we are excited to go to that next step but it's helpful. an important to the work that we need to have those documents. we've already seen the justice department charge steve bannon for content, for his refusal to hand over documents and testify to your investigation. it looks like there is a
possibility, your college will decide on wednesday, whether or not there is a scenario referral made around jeff clark. what is the difference between jeffrey clark and his behavior towards the investigation and the other former trump officials, other people related to the investigation, who have slow walk to you, or not testified yet? not handed over the documents that you have requested? it sounds like there's been a lot of resistance encouraged by former president trump. with puts jeffrey clark potentially in the same boat as steve bannon, as this being criminal contempt? >> mr. clark is in a small group that have continued to stonewall us. he has not produced any documents. he came to the deposition and refused to answer questions. exerted both executive privilege and attorney client privilege. which is a little confusing. so we are going to proceed. that is with the business committee meeting on wednesday will be about.
the referral of the criminal content. we feel that he has shown unwillingness to come forward. and testify. we feel the oval on 250 people have come before us and submitted interviews. he should be no different. including his two superiors at the time. acting attorney general rosen and deputy attorney general donahue. we've received a lot of information. the senate judiciary committee put out a report as well that talked about mr. clark's role in delegitimizing the election results. and we feel that he has an obligation to come before us and share what he don't >> did you sail over 250 people have communicated with the investigation at this point? given documents, testified, or both? over 250?
>> 250. there's been a ton of activity that has been going on. 25,000 documents that the committee is sorting through. has sorted through. there's a lot of activity. some of these names that are in the news obviously. but an overwhelming portion of the people who we have asked to submit for interviews and folks who we have subpoenaed, have come forward. and been interviewed. we continue to make progress. chairman thompson and vice chair cheney continue to guide and lead our group and our pursuit of the truth. we just want to make sure our fundamental goal is that this never happens again. in order to do that, we are going to need documents and testimony. we are going to need the full and complete story. >> congressman pete aguilar, democrat of california, member of the january 6th investigation. thank you for being here. i did not realize that the number of interviews had grown that large. that's a remarkable scope your
investigation. thank you for this. >> thanks rachel. >> we will be right back, stay with us. stay with us. ♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ trelegy for copd. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier
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thursday, december 2nd. that's the day by which the air national guard has to comply with the covid vaccine requirement at the pentagon. from the department of defense. all across the country there will certainly be some small number of international guard members who don't want to get vaccinated. they are going to get disciplined. and that will be a story in its own right. in the state of oklahoma, this forthcoming deadline, again, thursday for the international guard. it is turning into a pitiful, little melodramatic shoot yourself in the foot showdown. earlier this month. oklahoma's republican governor kevin stitt, he fired the former head of obama's national guard and unceremoniously replaced him with the new acting general. who issued a new order on his first day of charge that says quote, no oklahoma guardsmen will be required to take the
covid vaccine. notwithstanding any federal requirement. notwithstanding is like a stun word. sounds like a double negative. notwithstanding means in spite of. so the oklahoma national guard's current orders, are that you don't need to take the vaccine in spite of the federal orders that so you do. well, alongside that dubious order, the governor of oklahoma actually sent a formal request to the pentagon, asking for permission to oklahoma national guard troops to ignore the federal vaccine requirement. well today the pentagon gave them a formal response. a letter from secretary lloyd austin, from -- obtained by nbc news. all members of the oklahoma army and air national guard, regardless of duty status, must follow the direction of the air force. for specific covid vaccine
deadlines and requirements. failure to do so may lead to a prohibition on the members participation. conducted under tighter 32. may quote, jeopardize the member status in the national guard. which means, requested i'd. members of the oklahoma national guard defied the federal order that they have to get vaccinated, then they may very well lose their jobs as members of the national guard. that's with the rule means. spokes person for oklahoma's governor tells the oklahoma newspaper tonight that governor stitt maintains his position that the governors, of chief, are all members of the national guard while they are on title 32 status. meanwhile they are not actively deployed on a federal mission or training. so neither side is backing down. we called the oklahoma national guard today to see with this will actually mean for their members, they say as far as they know, their orders still come from the governor and have not changed. as far as the pentagon and federal government are concerned, people are going to get kicked out of the national guard if they don't have the
national vaccine requirement. national guard participates in all of these things. president biden. thursday's deadline for air national guard members, oklahoma national guard members told us they will not speculate for members of the oklahoma air national guard who remain unvaccinated. they instead directed us to the governor's office. like i said, this is turning into a standoff. one that is has a shoot yourself in the foot quality. particularly for the members of the oklahoma air national guard and national guard who may be following state guidance here that is going to end their military careers. regardless of whatever the governor says. i told you this was gonna go badly, it's going badly. watch this. h this we were alone when my husband had the heart attack.
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tonight, i have run into the last words real estate, which means i owe them one, i'll see you again tomorrow, but now it is time for the unfortunately abbreviated last word. which i've started to eat. my friend ali is in for lawrence o'donnell, i'm sorry ali. >> my pleasure rachel, you know this conversation we're having about the international guard, in oklahoma, a year ago we were 13 days away from having a vaccine. and it was sometime before i qualified to get one. i remember the day i qualified. i kept hitting the mud and i, had about nine websites open, and i tried to get an appointment, i was hitting refresh, refresh. and i was thinking to myself, while there's th