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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  November 29, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

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flowing into libya simply to prop up this proxy role as sort of immigration enforcement in europe, sort of the the last stage of that wall, has entrenched interests. so a lot of government militias are eager for the migration system to remain the same. >> you can find ian urbana's reporting in "the new yorker" and a companion piece at thank you. that is it for all-in. you can catch me on the weekend. saturdays at 8:00 p.m. eastern. sundays at 9:00. "the rachel maddow" show starts now. >> thank you. much appreciated. thank you to you at home for joining us. i hope you had a good weekend. as of tonight, midnight tonight
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on the eastern most island in the caribbean, this older woman, who you might recognize, will no longer be the head of state. as of the stroke of midnight tonight, queen elizabeth will no longer be, among her other titles, the queen of barbados, as of tonight at midnight, there will no longer be a head of barbados. there will be a president. she's on the right side of your screen. her name is dame sandra mason. she's currently the governor general. that means she's been the top representative of the queen there, but tonight that job goes away. barbados will cease of a king or queen for that matter. it will become tonight a republic, an independent republic with a president and a prime minster. it will no longer be a monarchy. and i should mention, this is a friendly transition.
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prince charles, who is next in line for the british throne when his mother's reign is over, prince charles is there tonight in barbados for the ceremony that will mark the transition. barbados will keep its name and its flag and its dollar and its national anthem. there will be some changes right away. right now there will police forces called the royal barbados police force. that will change because they'll no longer be royal. they'll be the barbados police service tonight at midnight. barbados became a colony of the british empire 394 years ago in 1627. barbados is where they solidified the sugar plantation model of slavery, where enuclaed people were worked to death at an inhumanly unfathomable pace. by some scholarly accounts on the early barbados sugar plantations, the life expect
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tant si of people enslaved to work on plantations is 18 years. 18 years is not the amount of time they spent working on the plantations. that was the average length of life period under that form of slavery. 18-year-old life expectancy. that's the worst known for enslaved people anywhere in the world at any time in the world. barbados had multiple slave rebelians, including several major uprisings in the 180 0s but slavery was not abolished until 1934. that's more than 200 years of brutal slavery in barbados. it was 100 years after that in the 1960s that barbados stopped being a british colony. november 30, 1966 is barbados independence day. it's the day they became a constitutional monarchy, with
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their own government but with queen as the head of state. as the clock strikes midnight, november 30th, barbados independence today, tonight with hit the 55th anniversary when it gains independence. but on this independence day tonight for the first time, they will drop the monarch and stand alone for the first time as an independent republic. and i mean, for context, this is not a thing that happens all the time. there are a lot of countries large and small that still have to queen, technically, as their head of state this. decision that barbados has made tonight, this is something, for example, that canada has thought about doing from time to time, but they've never done it. queen elizabeth is still their head of state. it's weird, but, i mean, do yourself a favor. goog it will phrase queen of canada. up pops liz.
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hi. hey, there's a queen of canada. you forget these things. what barbados is doing tonight is something australia held a referendum on in 1999, but that referendum lost, so queen elizabeth is their head of state as well. if you google queen of australia, once again, there she is, queen elizabeth, queen of australia. but tiny barbados, population 285,000, tonight they'll make their break of as of midnight there will be no queen of barbados, neither elizabeth nor anybody else. shake is hard. change seems impossible until change happens. it's kind of an amazing thing. what are you doing with your monday after thanksgiving? barbados is leaving the british monarchy. what's on your to-do list? tonight we've got a lot of news that we are watching in addition to that midnight ceremony coming up in the caribbean. our government here in the
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united states, for example, is due to run out of money and shut down at the end of the week. on friday unless congress acts to avert that. our supreme court is queen conseening the day after tomorrow on a course that's been teed up to overturn roe versus wade. it will be argued by a group of justices chosen by republican presidents specifically to overturn roe vs. wade. the court won't rule right away. that will take some matter of weeks or months. that said, we're not naive. we know at what purpose of this case is, and we know why republicans picked the particular justices they picked to be on the supreme court, so it is frankly a matter now of preparing for a return of american women having to seek out illegal abortions instead of having a right to get one, being protected by the court.
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republicans have already succeeded in banning abortion effectively in the state of texas since september 1st of this year, but now here it comes for every other state that has republicans in control of the government. again, the supreme court arguments are going to be wednesday morning, and we don't know when the court will rule, but there are grey expectations for what that ruling will mean. tomorrow, before that, we're expecting arguments in a federal appeals court, the court one level below the supreme court, on the request of whether or not records and documents from the trump white house have to be handed other to the january 6th investigation. this comes as more former trump officials appear to be looking at prosecution by the justice department for refusing to testify to that investigation. again, a federal appeals court will be hearing arguments in that tomorrow morning, but we're going to have more on that situation coming up later tonight. as all of that develops as we're
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watching all of those stories, who among us did not experience our thanksgiving inflated stomachs falling a few floors when we learned over these last few day about this new variant, this omicron variant of the coronavirus? this variant was first reported to the world health organization by authorities in south africa just five days ago. it has reportedly become the dominant strain of the virus in south africa already. the w.h.o. made a formal announcement, a formal proclamation this is a variant of concern. yeah, tell me about it. but as new travel bans go into effect around the world because of omicron, as the cdc changes its recommendations tonight to no longer say that americans may get boosters for their vaccines but instead the cdc is now saying that americans should get boosters for vaccine. the same fundamental questions are still out there. keeping our some ax flipping or dropping and potentially shaping
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our futures in terms of how important this is going to be for what comes next. the basic questions here, some of these may be more answerable than they were over the weekend. we're going to get expert advice to answer some of these as best we can, but in terms of what i have been worried about, or at least thins i want to understand better -- first of all, they say there are a large number of mutations in this variant. and large number compared to other known variants like the delta variant. why is that bad? why is that worse for it to have large numbers of mutations? they say in spectacular if there appear to be a large number of mutations on the spike protein, the protein was targeted by vaccine makers a the way to activate our immune systems against the viruses. if the spike protein is significantly mutated, is that why there's concerns that our vaccines magnificent not be effective at activating our
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immune system against this particularly mutated virus? for that matter, how long is it going to take for us to know whether our vaccines work against this virus? they're testing it now. report in "the new york times" that scientists in south africa started within one hour of the mutation first being reported -- the variant first being described, within one hour they were trying to test the effectiveness of various vaccines we already got against this variant. how long will that testing take? if the vaccines that we've got aren't effective against this new omicron variant, how long will it take to build new vaccines that will work against it? for that matter -- and this is something that has just arisen tonight with the cdc chaning its advice, telling americans we should get booster of existing vaccines now, why is the cdc telling us we should get booster of our existing vaccines now before we know if our existing vaccines actually work against this variant?
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the basic question also of whether this is more dangerous. if you get infected with the omicron variant of the coronavirus, is it more likely to make you sick? is it more likely to make you really sick or kill you? do we no that yet? do you have enough data on the people affected to know if it has a clinically different manifestation? also, do we know if it's -- we don't have owe ton of treatment bus we've got monoclonal antibody and this promising pill from pfizer. do we know if those treatments work against this variant? if we don't, how long will it take to figure out? what about testing? do tests work as well against this variant as they do against other variants of the virus? is that an issue? and finally, as a policy matter, do these travel bans make sense. we've got countries all over the world putting tral bans in effect after this was first detected in and reported from
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south africa, but it's already been found all over the place -- israel, the uk, canada, netherlands. does banning tral from places do anything? have we learned about that as a best practice and otherwise? i have all these questions. you may have some of these question as well. i am prepared to be talked out of the feeling in my stomach about this variant, but i've got these questions to ask before i'm going to let that happen. luckily, i'm very pleased to say, joining us now is dr. david kessler, a former fda commissioner. now the chief science officer for the white house's covid-19 response. dr. kessler always an honor to have time with you. particularly tonight on a night when so many americans have basic questions about this new variant. >> fire away, rachel. i'm ready the answer all your questions. >> all right, thank you. let me ask you the first
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question i canned. we have had it described to us, this new variant, as having a very large number of mutations, a large number of mutations specifically effecting the spike protein, which has been a real target for the development of our vaccines. can you tell us why a large number of mutations is worrying and why that's bad, why the spike protein mutations might be worying or bad? >> we have some experience with some of these mutations because we've seen some of those mutations in other variants, and those mutations can affect transmissibility and they can affect how well our vaccines work. look, there is a lot we still need to learn. we need to learn about transmissibility against delta, the severity, how well the vaccines and therapeutics will perform. there is early data from south africa that suggested there's increased transmissability of omicron variant, but we should
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not jump to any conclusions. this is still very early days with this variant. ask your next question. >> well, in terms of what you just said about figuring out whether it's susceptible to vaccines and whether or not it's responsive to anti-viral or antibody treatment, how long do you think it will be before we have answers to those questions about the effectiveness of the vaccines and also the treatment question? >> with regard to the effectiveness of vaccines, i would expect we would probably need at least two weeks in therapeutics i guess we're about four weeks. we're setting up the assays. i talk to a number of laboratories. we have to get the virus, or make a pseudo virus so we can handle it and test it, so we will know what exactly the effectiveness is. but we need two to four weeks to get those answers. >> and what about the treatment
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options that we've got? >> very important. we have two important sets of treatment options -- monoclonals, that you and i have talked about, and we have a number of monoclonals. i think there may be a differential response. we have to be prepared that not each one of the monoclonals will work exactly the same. some will work well. others may drop out. with regard to the anti-virals, none of those are yet authorized. fda's got to consider the first one tomorrow. you and i have talked about these, and you and i understand the importance of anti-virals, certainly in hiv. and i do think they can be a game changer. the good news is there doesn't appear to be significant mutations that would affect how those anti-virals work, but again, we have to see. >> if there is bad news in terms of the effectiveness to the
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vaccines, if it appears that this variant defeats the vaccines essentially or evades them in some way, and new vaccines or boosters ned to be developed, is the new mrna technology that led to the moderna and pfizer vaccines such that those new vaccines or new boosters could be made quickly? and by asking it in those terms i guess i should ask you to tell me how quickly. >> the answer is yes, we have the tools to handle this. we can do this quickly. again, let's not jump to any conclusions, but you know us, rachel. we are planning and planning for all these scenarios, and again, no decisions have been made but if and when we need to do that, we're probably several months before we can have enough vaccines. but relatively short period of time. nothing like the first go around. we can do this quickly.
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we have the tools. >> why is the cdc telling us now we should get our booster of our existing vaccines now before we know if those existing vaccines work well against this variant? or do we know enough about the way that he work to think they might be partially effective even if we don't have a complete picture yet? >> very well said. we know from every variant that we have dealt with that the more neutralizing antibodies you have on board, the more effective those vaccines are against variants, and we expect, even if it's not perfect, certainly the more neutralizing antibodies, the fact that you're boosted, the greater protection you can have. let me step back for a second. i just want to -- look, i understand the concern. i understand the need for vigilance. but let me deal with that knot in your stomach.
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i think that the -- to be very direct, the biggest problem i have tonight, it's not the variant. it's about getting everyone vaccinated and boosted. you are right, there is news tonight -- cdc upped its recommendations. everyone 18 and over should get boosted. if you are sitting out there tonight and you have been vaccinated but not boosted, this is the time. it certainly is not going to hurt. it will likely help. we'll see how much it will help, but please go get boosted and certainly if you haven't been vaccinated, that's our biggest battle. getting -- that's where we're going to save the most lives. >> if this variant that we're talking about does somehow change the contours of the -- of the epidemic -- globally, one of the things that we're going to
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need to know is whether our testing regime still makes sense. is there any difference in -- but we'll also need to know very basically, and i think that's part of what i think freaked a lot of people out -- certainly freaked me out reading the reports from the w.h.o. this weekend was the prospect that if it's not this variant or one of the variant in the future, is one of these variant going to be something that you get worse symptoms, you're more likely to get very sick, you're more likely to get killed by one of these things. it seems we don't know whether or not this variant has that kind of a difference with the wild type or the other variants that we've seen. but i think part of the reason that we all got worried is it feels like if this thing is going to keep mutating in a way that changes so much about the way we have to deal with it, including vaccines and all these things, is it going to mutate in a way that's going the make it profoundly more dangerous to
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humanity? >> we have a lot more tools. we are this a very different place today than where we started. but you raise an important point. we are learning more about how these -- where these viruses mutate. one of the things that's of concern, but it's also good news but we really have to attend to is something you and i dealt with -- go back 20 years ago. immunocompromised people wherever they are can incubate the virus for months on end, and their immunosuppression needs to be treated. for example, if you have hiv you need to be treated with your anti-viral drugs. so we have a -- we know a lot more, so we can, with therapy, decrease the chance of these variants from happening in the future. but it's going to take a lot of work, rachel. >> dr. kessler, in terms of
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where we are right now and you and the team at the white house and the upper levels of the biden administration i know this is an area of intense concern, and it's not like you were slacking on the job on the covid pandemic and trying to get everyone vaccinated. bottom line, do you feel like we're going to have to change course significantly as a country as this variant emerges, as future variants emerge, or do we keep applying the same tools the same way we have been in because even as the problem seems to get more complex and virologically interesting the tools stay the same. >> we have to tools to handle this. we may have to fine tune the tools, we may have to adapt those tools. we do not have to change our course. we are going to have to make sure we can convince each other to take advantage of those tools. those tools of vaccination, of boosting, and, you know, i hope the anti-virals that we see -- i
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don't want to get ahead of fda in the coming weeks, but i think they can be game changers. i think the good news is we have additional tools to our arment. let's use the tools we have wisely. >> dr. david kessler is the chief science officer for the white house's covid-19 response. he's a former fda commissioner. dr. kessler, as i said, it is always an honor to have your time, especially on a night when i think so many americans have so many questions. thank you so much, sir. >> thank you, rachel. >> i should underscore what dr. kessler said about the fda advisory group tomorrow, considering the first of those two anti-viral pill. ♪ these treatments going to the fda for approval. the first one is the merck pill going to the panel tomorrow. after that, the pfizer one which has shown effectiveness in clinical trials. that will be in in addition to what we've got fight this sourj. we've got a lot more ahead
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tonight. stay with us. ay with us ♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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you said that michael flynn would come back even bigger and better. would you consider bringing him back and your administration? >> i would consider it. i think he's a fine man. >> would you have him back at the white house. >> >> i would. i think he's a great general. >> he's a great gentleman. while president trump was running for re-election last year, he talked more than once about how in a hypothetical second trump administration he would gladly welcome back his disgraced national security adviser michael flynn who pled guilty twice to charges. president trump pardoned him on the way out the door and didn't get a second term, at least not yet, but if there was one, mike flynn would be back in there because he's such a gentleman.
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in the meantime, what has mike flynn, potential general in a future trump administration, what has he been up to? >> somebody sent me a thing this morning where they're talk about putting the vaccine into salad dressing. have you seen this. >> yes! >> i mean, i'm thinking to myself, this is the bizarro world. this is definitely the bizarro world. >> have you seen this? the salad dressing thing? oh, yes. oh, yes, who hasn't seen that. the government forcing the covid vaccine into all of us through our precious salad dressing. this is a way to get everyone. that's not the only interesting idea general mike flynn has been publicly propounding. there's also his demand that the united states needs to have just one religion, one religion for the whole country. he said one nation under god means one religion under god. all this comes after general flynn work now know, spent the week after 2020 election
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advocating that president trump should declare martial law, he should have to u.s. military seize voting machines and have to military rerun the election in places trump lost. he later publicly endorsed that the united states should have a flat-out military coup, where the military just ousts the civilian government and takes over. he was asked about that in the context of a military coup in myanmar earlier this year. he said we should have one of those, too. aside from those headline making moments, what general flynn has mostly been up to over the course of the past year, what appears to be essentially his job, the thing he spends hi too many on, what he a parentally is monetizing to great effect is his role as a prominent endorser of the qanon conspiracy theory. the sort of mass delusion among trump supporters in which they believe the democratic party and the government and also hollywood maybe are run by a
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cabal of blood-drinking satanic pedophiles who will all be massacre in the a public execution by donald trump when he brings the storm, and therefore donald trump must be restored to power imminently to kill all the satan worshippers who are running the world. mike flynn these days is i think the biggest qanon celebrity that there is, to the extent you can define that term. there's him posting a video of him and his family members reciting a oath, a pledge of allegiance to qanon. he launched a merchandise site that features qanon themed products. he's showed up at multiple qanon conferences. he's auctioned off qanon themed items like this lucky "q" quilt. by the way, they would not just get the quilt, they'd get the quilt signed by mike flynn along
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with the my pillow guy. but recently, there has been a turn in this world. all is not well amongst these qanon celebrities. just a few months ago there they all are signing quilts together for money. but lately the qanon world has been consumed by fighting. lin wood accused trump and other figures of running a grift or being part of the evil deep state plot they're suppose to be fighting. one of the people he says he is mad at is mike flynn, and mr. wood released a recording of a phone conversation between him and general flynn in which flynn is said to disparage to whole qanon ideology. gasp. i know. not totally ingeneralous of his
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public adapting of this? we have not been able to independently verify this audio. we tried to. we reached out to mr. wood and flynn and didn't hear back. we don't know when this was recorded although he seemed to reference an article that came not beginning of the month. so maybe this month. here's what general flynn had say about qanon. base yourself. >> i think it's a disinformation campaign. i think it's a disinformation campaign that the cia created. that's what i believe now, and i don't know that for a fact, but that's what i think it is. i think it's a disinformation campaign. it's actually a very interesting article today out that was sent to me. i'll send it to you. about how the qanon movement has failed and all that. but i find it total nonsense, and i think it's a disinformation campaign created by the left.
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>> created by the left, a disinformation campaign. that's former trump national security adviser now qanon darling talking smack about qanon on a phone call purportedly recorded and released by another qanon celebrity fighting with mike flynn and trump folks. pass the popcorn. always fun to see folks like this fighting with each other, particularly when you think about how destructive qanon mass delusion has been to people sucked down into it. to people who are hoping for the demise and ultimate discrediting this squabbling is delicious, right? but there is a substantive question here. if what we're seeing is a fracturing going on in the far, far right of the trump supporting world, right, so many of the people in the january 6th attack were qanon adherents or
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promoters or qanon curious. so many people who have turned up in the darkest corner of the trump supporting world dragged this "q" stuff with them. listen, if we are seeing a fracturing in that world, is that purely good news in terms of the collapse of mass delusion, or might it also be kind of a dangerous moment? this article mike flynn was referring to on this call, when he says the qanon movement failed, that article for fuller context says the answer to the failure of qanon is that we need to just turn to violence. is the movement fracturing? if the movement is fracturing, is that a mix of good and bad? how do people who study this stuff and who are experts and reported it deeply see this as a potential moment of promise or peril? joining us now is will summer, author of a forthcoming book called "trust the plan, the rise of qanon and the conspiracy that reshaped america". it's coming out next spring. thank you so much for joining us
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tonight. it's a really pleasure to have you here. >> thanks for having me. >> let me ask first if you think i'm asking the right question and if i've sort of framed this appropriately in terms of various people involved and what kind of moment this is in the qanon world. >> sure. i mean, that's a moment of real tumult right now. lin wood, who's a real qanon star turn on people like sidney powell and michael flynn, most importantly, so this is really kind of a crux. lin wood has a lot of -- i don't know if you want to call them minions, associates who are lesserites of qanon and they're turning on michael flynn because of this audio. he gave a weird prayer that they claim proves he's a satanist. there's a big civil war in qanon, and i think this is a big issue a loft qanoners are going
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to have to face in their lives. >> the dynamic you're describing, do you feel like it is an enevidentable cross roads this movement was coming to because it was bit on prophesies that had specific dates and factual predictions attached to them that, you know, didn't come true? is this a sort of cross roads that was going to have to happen because this movement was built on promises that it couldn't keep? or is this just a product of the personalities, these volatile personalities, and this is less predictive in terms of how this is going to result in the future? >> you're right on the money that qanon from the start has been promising trump supporters and others it brought in this utopian moment. they said hillary clinton was going to be arrested and sent to guantanamo. obviously that didn't happen. or so it did. they believe maybe the hillary clinton we see today is a clone
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and it gets more and more bizarre, and people like michael flynn end up signing on to all these permutation. but really qanon has proven itself to be really resilient. after january 6th when all the qanon people were kick off main social media platforms, a lot of people thought that would be the end of it. after january 20th when biden was inaugurated people thought that would be the end. but what i find out from people having family members they've lost the qanon, talked to a pollster that said qanon that happens never been more popular among her fellow republicans. it keeps moving. i think people like mike flynn and lin wood what take qanon or a slice of it and move it in their own directions and feed people this idea of their secret world that trump is coming back some day, they really keep it going. >> is support for trump a constant in the qanon world? i have been surprised to see some people i thought were inextricable from the conspiracy, people like flynn,
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sid sidney powell, some of the other people that have had so much attention in the world, i have been surprised to see some schismatic forces throw them off. is support for trump a constant, or is that also at play as the movement gets to this crux moment as you describe it? >> sure. well, so far they're all in on trump. they love trump. trump has sort of won that loyalty not just by doing things that qanon believers like policywise, but by never denouncing qanon. they saw during the presidential campaign when he said, well, these people think we're going after pedophiles. maybe we are. what would be wrong with that? and by doing this dance, praising people like michael flynn who always winked at qanon. they're on board. until he comes out and disavows them they're going believe in him. people outside qanon think, we can cause them to defect by
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pointing out, here's a picture of him and jeffrey epstein. but they say, trump was going under cover to take down jeffrey epstein. the amount of rationalizations they find to have this undying loyalty to trump apparently never ceases. >> i feel like somebody outside this looking in on it, the one thing that it always seemed to me is a cultish manifestation of trump support rather than being a cult this exists on its own that happens to attach itself to trump. it does feel endemic to the phenomenon, but that will be tested over time as all of these things have been. will summer, reporter for the daily beast. thanks for helping us understand this weird moment. pressure you being here. >> thanks for having me. >> much more news ahead. stay with us. stay with us
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tomorrow a federal appeals
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court was going to hear arguments on whether trump as documents should be turn ooefr in the january 6th investigation. he lost the fight at the lower court. the tomorrow the d.c. circuit court will hear his appeal. if he loses this case again tomorrow, he's running out of courts. the united states supreme court would be the next and final stop for him. meanwhile, the january 6th investigators are scheduled to meet on wednesday to consider whether federal contempt charges should be recommended for yet another trump administration official. last week they rescued the justice department should charge steve bannon. they have charged him, brought indictments against him. next is jeffrey clark, the official with whom trump cooked up a plan to use the power of justice department to block the election results from being counted. on top of the charges for ban been the charges about to be recommended for clark,
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congressman schiff said members will also this week -- a criminal referral for mark meadows who like jeffly clrk and steve bannon also refused to cooperate with the investigation. joining us now is pete aguilar, democrat of californiaing a member of the january 6th investigation. pleasure to have you here. thanks for making time. >> thanks for having me. >>, so we've got these oral arguments tomorrow at the d.c. circuit court. how important are president trump's white house records to the investigation? there's no way to know how the courts are going handle this from here on out, particularly if this goes to the supreme court. would it be a critical factor for your investigation if ultimately you weren't able to get the trump white house records? >> we've said all along we want to tell the full and complete story, and in order to do that we're going to need documents and interviews, so clearly that is what's helpful about the document requests and national
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archives request. we're please at the time line the court is addressing this, and doug letter and the team here will be arguing that before the court of appeals tomorrow. so we're excited to move to that next step, but it's helpful and important to the work that we need to have those documents. >> we've already seen the justice department charge to be to be for contempt for his refusal to hand over documents and testify to your investigation. it looks like there's a possibility you and your colleagues will decide on wednesday whether or not a similar referral will also be made about jeff clark. what's the difference between jeffly clark and his behavior towards the investigation and the other former trump officials or other people related to the investigation who have slow-walked you or not testified yet or not handed over the documents you've requested? sounds like there's been a lot of resistance encouraged by president trump.
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what puts jeffrey clark potentially in the statement boat at steve bannon as potentially this being criminal contempt? >> mr. clark is in a small group that have continued to stonewall us. he has not produced any documents. he came to the deposition but refused to answer questions and exerted both executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, which is a little confusing. and so we're going to proceed, and so that's what the business committee meeting on wednesday evening will be about is referral of the criminal contempt. we feel that he has shown just a willing -- unwillingness to come forward and to testify, and we feel that over 250 people have come before us and given -- submitted interviews and this should be no different, including his two superiors at the time, acting attorney general rosen and deputy
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attorney general o'donahue, so we've received a lot of information. the senate judiciary committee put out a report as well that talked about mr. clark's role in delegitimatize the election results. we feel he has an obligation to come before school bus share what he knows. >> did you say over 250 people communicated with the investigation at this point, either given you documents or testified, 50? >> 250 interviews. there has been a ton of activity that's going on. 25,000 documents the committee is sorting through and has sorted through. there's a lot of activity, and i know that some of these names that are in the news, obviously, but an overwhelming portion of the people who we have asked to sit for interviews and folks who we have subpoenaed have come forward and have been interviewed. so we continue the make progress. chairman thompson and vice chair
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cheney continue to guide and lead our group in our pursuit of the truth, and we just want to make sure our fundamental goal is that this never happens again. so in order to do that, we're going to need documents and testimony and we're going to need to tell the story. >> congressman pete aguilar, democrat of california, member of the january 6th investigation. sir, thank you for being here. i did not realize the number of interviews had grown that large. that's a remarkable scope to your investigation. thanks for helping us understand it, sir. >> thanks, rachel. all right, we'll be right back. stay with us. ith us
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requirement. there will be some amount of guard members who don't want to be vaccinated and they will get disciplined and that will be a story. the deadline of thursday for the air national guard, it's turning into a little melodramatic showdown. earlier the republican governor stitt fired the head of the national guard and replaced him with a new general who issued a new order on his first day in charge saying, quote, no oklahoma guardsmen will be required to take the covid-19 vaccine notwithstanding any federal requirement. now, notwithstanding is like a stunt word in this case. it sounds like a double negative, but notwithstanding means in spite of. so the oklahoma national guards' current orders are that you don't need to take the vaccine in spite of the federal orders that say you do. well, alongside that dubious
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order, the governor of oklahoma actually sent a formal request to the pentagon asking for permission for oklahoma national guard troops to ignore the federal vaccine requirement. today the pentagon gave them a formal response. this is a letter from defense secretary lloyd austin to governor steve stitt of oklahoma. it was obtained by nbc news. it says, all members of the oklahoma army and air national guard regardless of duty status must follow the directions of the secretary of the army and the secretary of the air force, respectively, for specific instructions and may jeopardize the member's status in the national guard. which means request denied. if members of the oklahoma national guard defy the federal order that they have to get vaccinated, then they may very well lose their jobs as members of the national guard. that's what the rule means. a spokesperson for oklahoma's
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governor tells the oklahoma newspaper tonight that governor stitt maintains his position that the governors, the commander in chief, are all members of the national guard while they are all channel 32 status, meaning they are not actively deployed on a federal mission or training. so neither side is backing down. we called the oklahoma national guard today to see what this will actually mean for their members. they said as far as they know, the orders still come from the governor and have not changed. but as far as the pentagon and federal government are concerned, people are going to get kicked out of the national guard if they don't comply with the vaccine requirement because the national guard participants in all these federal things. it's ultimately commanded by the commander in chief, who is president biden. as for thursday's deadline for air national guard members, oklahoma national guard officials were told they would not speculate what it may mean for members of the air national guard who remain unvaccinated, instead directed us to the governor's office. this is turning into a standoff,
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one that has a shoot yourself in the foot quality, particularly for members of the oklahoma air national guard and national guard who may be following state guidance here that is going to end their military careers regardless of whatever the governor says. i told you this was going to go badly. it's going badly. watch this space. h this space the experts at safelite autoglass came right to me... with service i could trust. right, girl? >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ feel stuck and need a loan? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ move to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate —
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