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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  November 25, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST

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star. 25-year-old ahmaud arbery, had to go jogging near his mother's house. near brunswick, in georgia. the afternoon of february 23rd, 2020, he ran into a subdivision called satilla shores. three white men, traffics mcmichael, father gregory, along with his neighbor bryant, grab some guns. hopped in their trucks, and started to chase arbery as he ran through the streets. they claimed they thought he was burglarizing houses in the neighborhood. , they chased after ahmaud arbery, in a white pick up just, their neighbor, followed behind. brian started to filmed will happen, when arbery tried to run past the mcmichaels. they got out of the truck with the shotgun, and after the brief struggled, he shot him, and killed him. when police arrived at the scene, this is how they treated travis mcmichael. >> is there anything on you? >> justin. >> if he would've stopped --
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>> that's fine, that's fine, just take a breath. do you have your i.d. and all of? it >> don't get blood all over yourself, i get that your hands are -- >> do what you need to do. i can only imagine. >> i can only imagine. >> police did not arrest travis mcmichael, after he shot and killed ahmaud arbery. they were explicitly told not to arrest him by the district attorney, because his that the, one chasing arbery, was a former investigator of the da's office, that da has since been indicted for telling the people not to arrest him. she is also accused of violating her oath of office as a felony. i showing favor an infection to greg michael. because even though she recused herself from mcmichael's case, she recommended another prosecutor take it over, someone she had already been working with, and who had already determined that he also didn't take or think that rest were necessary. so for two, months after they chased down and killed ahmaud
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aubry, as he jogged, unarmed in broad daylight, through his mother's neighborhood, travis mcmichael, his father's gregory, and his william, were freeman. >> it was not until the video of the murder, that brian handed over to police after the killing was, leaked to the public in may 2020, that the three men were finally arrested and charged with murdering ahmaud arbery. trial, begin earlier this month, the defense argued that they were trying to make a citizens arrest. the prosecution argued that they had no calls to chase down ahmaud aubry. today, after ten hours of deliberation, the jury reached its verdict. >> state of georgia versus travis mcmichael, case number c r zero zero zero four three three. jury verdicts for. count one, malice murder, we the jury find that event in travis mcmichael, guilty. >> we're going to ask to
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whoever just made it out burst, be removed from the court please. >> that was ahmaud arbery's father, aubry senior, that you heard the courtroom. travis mcmichael, shot and killed ahmaud albright, was found guilty in all charges, including, malice murder, and four counts of felony. his father, gregory mcmichael, who chased ahmaud aubry, was found guilty of, four counts of felony murder, another charges. their neighbor, william bryan,, who chased ahmaud aubry down and filmed his murder, was found guilty on three counts of felony, and other charges. the charges carry life in prison. sentencing has yet to be scheduled. and all three of them still faces federal hate crime charges too. they could be charge of the hate crime under state law because there was no hate crime statutes in georgia. until audrey smog there, wanda cooper, jones urged them to pass 100. she was inside the courthouse, every single moment of the trial after the verdict came down, she spoke to the crowd
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gathered outside. >> it's been a long fight. it's been a hard fight. but god is good. early in, i never thought that this day, back in 2020 would come. but god is good. and i just want to tell everybody thank you for those who marched, for those who prayed, most of all the ones who prayed. >> yes lord [applause] >> thank you god thank you. and whom you know says mud, i know him as quakes, he will not rest in peace. >> amen. >> ben crump is a civil rights attorney and represents the family of ahmaud aubry and he joins me now. mr. crump, first i just want to ask how the family is, doing how the parents are doing in the wake of this verdict.
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>> well chris, thank you for having me on this historic day, the parents are relieved, i think you heard that gut wrenching sigh of relief from marcus aubry. ahmaud's father. when they announced the first guilty conviction for travis mcmichael. and in such a weight lifted off of them because not only did they witness justice we. it was a horrific, tragic killing of their child, as they said. it was horrific that they had to fight so long to get to this day. so they are relieved, they are pretty full, and they are very thankful to everybody who came together for justice for ahmaud. >> the mother explicitly thanking those who, march this is really one of those cases where, when you look at that timeline this is likely going to just go away. until the public attention,
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essentially triggered the wheels of justice to southern motion. what is your feeling about the role that the public attention played, and then the new team that the district attorney and prosecutor who ended up taking this case, charging, it and trying it? >> well chris, i think you're absolutely right. it was going to be swept underneath the rug. and we must remember, that prosecutor, jacqui johnson, and the police officer saw the video on day one. but as i said, previously, it wasn't until we the people saw the video almost 70 days later that they finally were arrested and charged for unjustified, unconstitutional, unnecessary, killing, lynching of ahmaud arbery. so the people had everything to do with that. the court of public opinion, the outrage, the rice just in the haitian, of seeing a young
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man offered no humanity. hunted down like he is in the pro keg -- and killed a violent mob. >> you noted the court of the public opinion, one of the things that have been in trials of this magnitude high-profile, that there's a distinction between what the public, things where people are seeing outside, and whatever the legal matters are in that courtroom, presented to a, jury that the jury has to evaluate. sometimes they sync up, sometimes they don't. your thoughts about this case, the jury which had 11 white members, and the jury's decision and the case the prosecution put on to reach what i think, a lot of people felt, was the obvious conclusion, and yet another the, less it was actually reach to. >> it really gives us hope for america when you think about this jury, with 11 white, members and one black member, being able to focus on the
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evidence. this horrific killing and not be distracted by all the dog whistles and the racial roddick it -- amar headlong legs, dirty toenails, which was offensive on every level. and chris, when you really think about, it this case hawking back to a jim crow care, you had this white lynch mob chasing this unarmed black man, taking justice into their own hand, killing him. because he didn't comply. and then you have a defense lawyer, saying well we are going to tell you who can colored come for you in the court. we don't want all these black pastors in here, as if he could inject his wheel on this black family. like they did when they kill them. you need to comply with what we want you to do. and now in the coffin was this prosecutor talking about him having long leagues, 30
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toenails there were almost talking about him like if he was a runaway slave, and that this lynch mob as a right to run away and run after him and capture him, even if that meant killing him. and the only thing that was left to be answered was this afternoon, was worse the verdict going to be one that -- to the jim crow era. or chris, whether it's going to be a verdict that said to america, we must be better than this. we cannot condone this in 2021. >> yes, that was the defense attorney, who of course said the about the disgusting comment about the toenails. >> thank you chris hayes. >> i want to turn down to criminal, defense former prosecutor, professor of political science at florida university, and you know, david
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henderson, the thing that i can't get over about this, case and this is a detail that is truly socking. is that that video was, there the cops had at the first day. you've got the former employee of the district attorney's office, kind of that thing to see here, and then that video leaked to the public by the eventual defendants. as exculpatory, listen to. this attorney, download the video onto them, drive the -- it was delivered to a local dj, he wanted the public to know the truth, he said to nbc news. the hero son were not driving a pickup truck with the confederate flag. there were jobs in the trunk where they thought the bike was exculpatory. that tells you so much about this entire story, to me. >> chris, it does, it's a relief to see this conviction. i can't imagine waking up to a world to see that these colors
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were convicted for what they. did but we keep saying that it's almost underneath the, rug and that's inaccurate. it was swept underneath the rug. and the prosecutor who additionally handled the, case is now facing charges. and the second prosecutor who handled the case, refused himself, but not before he so it was swept completely underneath the rug, and on the one hand i'm with, you i look at that video and think how could you possibly have thought this would have exonerated you, and yet they were, right it did, fortunately bryan's attorney didn't think to get it done, writing otherwise i think we would've been looking at a deep process violation and he would've fled to something, leicester and receive probation instead of the punishment that he should and this is step one. there still needs to be accountability for the prosecutors, who refused to take the yeah and action they should've taken. one of those prosecutors as we said has been charged, the other one that you mentioned is jordan district attorney judge barnhill. he is the district attorney in
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-- , george, i just want to read from that letter. in the file is the letter saying i have looked at the evidence, here is why there is no charge here. we know that mcmichael had his trigger on the figure we don't know who cause the firing. arbery would have only pulled the shotgun one 16th to one eighth of one inch to fire weapon himself in the height of inoculation. this is entirely possible. you see present here, christina, the really perverse vigilantism any prosecutors saying this. well, could have been an accident. outside the context of what on earth is this man doing sticking a gun in the face of other people. >> chris, it brings us back to conversations we have been having on the show for years. whether or not black people will ever be seen as real citizens in this country. the fact that far too many white americans lookout black individuals, and say you don't belong here, where those children in schools, whether we are walking down the street,
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jogging, there are more and more white people who feel the need to protect what they team as their country, their neighborhood. we see it on micro and macro levels. sometimes with deadly results. you hear ahmaud arbery's mother saying thank you for the prayers, this is the prayer that every single black individual, parents, grandparents says as their child walks out the door. it is not a guarantee that your child will come back, even if they are just walking to the store, get skittles, or have a job, something that anyone should be able to do to be free, to be in their own body, and we see that white americans see as an insult to them that you dare have a black person live in their own existence and be in this country as a free individual. we have yet to get to the bottom of that, and we see how da's, police officers, time and time again just automatically err on the side of the white
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perpetrator as opposed to the black victim. >> there is a great piece, david, and the times today about a public defender name sarah, who talked about her experience defending her clients and how often these trials are awkward matches to the stories we want to tell in some ways. they are obviously embedded in the context of american life, what is going on in the room has a bunch of technical legal issues that can be distinct from the, outside of it. it seems to me in this case when i watch, the prosecution did a very good job, on a technical legal level it was a while prosecuted case. the defense was not that good, and that was quite different. it is quite a difference between that in the rittenhouse trial in that respect. >> chris, that is true. to be frank, i think the prosecution's heart was not in the rittenhouse trial. the prosecution's heart was in this trial. i don't think everything was perfect but i'm not one to talk about guiding on thanksgiving either.
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ultimately they did their job. i think it reflects back on -- this verdict doesn't simply commend the men that were on trial, it also commence the analysis that went into dismissing this case previously. if you look at the letter you are holding, the legal analysis in that letter is deeply flawed. so you are forced to pick between one of two choices, either the lawyers are that that are analyzing georgia law and applying it to us that the facts. or they were deeply biased in favor of the mcmichaels, and mike ryan. none of those options were good, they take an oath and you shouldn't be able to trade that batch or maintain that oath if that is the way that you do business. that is why is that this is really just the first step, this is partial justice, but i think that we lay ahmaud's case to rest once that justice is complete. >> quickly for you, christina, the other connection to the rittenhouse trial here is this other madness, of the gun in the private hands as a means of
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enforcing order. i think it's revealed in both cases with different outcomes, but that to me is the commonality that is really at the front and center of the larger conversation. >> absolutely, chris, but what is also front and center is a white man who says i needed to our myself because i felt afraid. therefore i put myself in danger. rittenhouse took a gun across state lines and put himself in the room that had nothing to do with him. similarly they decide to hunt down a black man with a gun where they could've left him alone if they were that fearful for their lives. so we keep seeing this as a pattern of white men picking up guns as the guise of -- >> david henderson, christina, have a great thanksgiving, thank you for taking the time with us tonight, i appreciate it. >> no longer the head of the republican party so caught a lot of people's attention when it came out, you sweating the bill for some of the --
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this, week but it was reported that the republican national committee, the official party was paying donald trump's personal legal bills. tonight we are getting a clearer picture of what republican donors are funding. an rnc spokesperson announced monday, that in october, the rnc made to payments, 121, $670
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to an attorney representing donald trump as he faces investigations by the manhattan district attorney, and new york attorney general. new york times is reporting tonight about where those investigations are headed, according to the times, a manhattan district attorney side vent, has been busy as his final weeks in office time. down mr. vance's prosecutors have issued new subpoenas for records about mr. trump's hotels, golf clubs, and recent buildings. they recently interviewed a banker employed by duchess, bank mr. top spender. at least one subpoena issued in the summer, to the trump organization company, demanded information about how the company valued various assets. then, the men investigated, did we leave office at the end of this. year into questions about he would checked indict the former president on his way out of the door. for, better she works with assistance, in the fraud, unit in the madden district attorney's office. she is now a professor, at new york law school, and she joins me now. rebecca roiphe, for just give us a gloss as someone who
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worked as a prosecutor on security fraud cases in that office. what we can glean from what the times says about the subpoenas that apparently, where we should, note happened in the summer. >> so chris, we've heard a lot in public reporting about these properties. and how the former president, and trump organization may have manipulated the value of these assets in order to get paid treatment for these, lenders and so the key question here is, that's the question that the manhattan district attorney has to ask. he needs to stay, that look, shady is their actual crime. here and new york, new york, law the key to that question. we don't have a bank fraud statue. so the key to that question, there are number different statues but they all require intense. and specifically, intent to defraud. so the key question in this case is can the prosecutor prove that even if this was going, on and it was shady, was
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there an intent to defraud. and i think it's going to come down to that with all those documents, whatever they matters is if there's somebody, who was in the, room who can say, look, let's look at this document and they show up -- but what was, intended who intended, whatever was didn't tended to. fraud >> it just an important point, because michael cohen testified about this when he was before the house, you know. several years ago. it's ugly saying, he called it essentially, a routine practice, that we would change the evaluation of prop parties, obviously you want to volume them low for text purposes, and high for insurance purposes. and, you can't move that around, right? so i think that rachael has done a reporting on. this is public records that indicate that they were doing precisely this. so i don't even think it's that disputed with the actual behavior was. but to your point about the intent making it a difficult case to make.
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it's clarifying because i have been watching this. watching all these reports and saying, that it seems like you can do it, but to turn into something, criminal that intense, key and it sounds like it's not necessarily easy to establish it in a -- >> yes, they're essentially three obstacles to proving, this first of all, he dealt with. lawyers he dealt with appraisers. so if the source and appraisers tell him to do something, he can say, hey, i was just acting on the rights of council. i was acting on what they told me. second, wait this is the way it's done in real estate business, everybody messes around with the values of their properties for different purposes system, for mechanisms, and this is how it's done. and finally, this was that, bank this instance some unstuck to vacated person, that i was deceiving, this was a. bank they knew what was going. on they had their own, appraisers they don't care. so this was serious obstacles. and i don't see the da being able to overcome the top cycles without having somebody there of, cooperator, who would tell
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them that this is actually what we are doing, and this is the way that we are doing. it's the documents are really important,, but i don't think that they're enough to make this case. i wouldn't be surprised if they were? >> one thing i've learned from this entire era is that there's a lot of she venus in the world of real estate. a lot of the card maltese, happening with the valuations and such. and also, appraisal was an area right front. there was a tremendous, amount amongst the whole plot of other parties, and not necessarily called are prosecuted, and yet still in the system, so that's also a up ability -- rebecca roiphe, thank you so much for sharing with us, have a great thanksgiving. >> thank you. >> donald trump is also facing criminal charges in georgia right, now thanks to the lengthy calling made to georgia's republican secretary of state. trying to get him to alter the outcome of the election. you know what else was on that call? >> does anybody know that. >> i know that.
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>> okay i'm not asking you, claudia, honestly. >> sorry. >> clean it was trump's attorney at the time, and you'll never guess what she's doing now, seriously? that's next. eriously that's next. [♪♪] powerful skincare ingredients come dermatologist-recommended, and there's a brand that offers them at an affordable price. try olay skincare. olay regenerist, with 99% pure niacinamide provides 5 times the hydrating power of a prestige cream; while olay collagen peptide visibly firms and reduces the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles; and olay retinol 24 brightens and smooths the skin while you sleep. for dermatologist-recommended ingredients at an affordable price, try olay skincare.
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last november, there are plenty of pro trump lawyers eager to push his false claims of election fraud in court. some are probably wishing they had not, earlier this week a colorado judge ordered toothache lawyers to pay more than $186,000 in legal fees for the groups they soon. saying the lawsuit has been used to manipulate members of the public and for public unrest, ouch. but are all the lawyers who pushed trump's lies having the same fate. the president now infamous call back in january trying to bully him into swinging thousands of votes in his favor? >> you have all these different people who voted, but they don't live in georgia anymore
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what was that number -- that was a pretty good number to. the number you had registered out of state after they moved from georgia, so they had a day when they moved from georgia, they register to vote out of state, and then 4500 that don't have >> and then they came back in and voted. >> and what you heard replying to trump's clear mitchell. she was the attorney on that call trying to overturn -- such a backlash to her involvement on that call from her law firm, that she resigned from the firm just days later. you might think that kind of thing would be a career ender, that would be the last anyone would hear of cleaner mitchell. instead, in august, just over -- turnout mitchell was appointed to the advisory board of the u.s. the condition. which i kid you not as a federal agency tasked with helping federal states tasked
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with helping elections. that's right, the lawyer on the call with donald trump, trying to pull off a coup by bullying georgia facials into essentially committing election fraud, is now advising the agency responsible for making elections more secure. jessica who's men broke the story of cleanup mitchell's new job, she is the other tutorial of partisan coverage of election voting an accident chic or joins me now she's an establishment republican attorney is my sense. >> yeah she has been involved in republican politics for a very long time and in fact this is not the first voting advice that she has ever sat on. her extreme ideology flew under the radar for a really long time button obviously had everyone right in the face when the audio of the georgia call came out. she did really run from it anymore. so disappointment is pretty
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stunning. >> okay, so, she was appointed. what is -- the election assistance commission is? what >> so the election assistance commission is a nonpartisan, sort of extra administration administration that is supposed to provide guidance on best practices and security to election officials across the country. their biggest responsibility is distributing federal money, but they also certify voting machines, or the labs that their credit certify voting machines. so they are very influential because they essentially dictate which machines states can or cannot buy. >> gotcha. so they are sort of this federal commission. they were born out of -- the act which is part of the bush and gore election. >> absolutely. >> they are this federal entity. they do technical assistance, give out money, a nonpartisan technical kind of stuff.
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how you technically run an election. and they have an advisory committee is that right? >> yeah, so they have a board of advisers that is made of 35 people and the help america vote act gained several different organizations the ability to place people on this board everyone from, the u.s. commission on civil rights which is a board that appointed cleta mitchell and the department of homeland security. it is kind of a broad board, they don't have -- binding authority over the -- they are just there is an advisory all. but ultimately the ac only has a credibility over the states and if the states choose to listen to a. certainly this is not a good thing for the eac in terms of its credibility across the board. >> so -- this happens in different federal agencies, report commissions right? so different and it is get to a point to get these east of the board. one of them as a u.s. civil rights commission which is another federally panel board,
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they chose cleta mitchell why? how? >> it is the strangest thing i have ever seen. so this board, at the end of the trump administration he appointed jay question adams, who you might or call was on the voter fraud commission, and made his name suing states and counties over what he says are jody voter rolls. he's a voter fraud conspiracy theorist. trump appointed him to the u.s. commission on civil rights at the end of his administration, he sort of ground the entire commission to a halt. these commissioners can only be removed in the event of bad behavior, or some specific type of malfeasance. nothing he has done has hit that mark. so he picked up a big fifth in january and february about the lack of a republican and a democrat on this advisory board. the u.s. ccr gets two nominees, you wanted want to be a
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republican, on a democrat, so in order -- to him the committee -- whose terms had expired anyways, and chose to appoint one republican and one democrat. they did this by allowing the republicans on the commission to nominate to people, and the democrats to nominate to. the two republicans that were sent out to vote which a christian adams themself, and cleta mitchell, and the commission this is true, found items to be so disagreeable, that they appointed cleta mitchell and it is a knowingly. >> so this guys on the commission, he's a trump devotee, he is viewed if i got a charitably as obnoxious by his fellow commissioners. he is one of these sort of, oh there is all sorts of dead democrats voting kind of folks. so he has name including mitchell are in there and they will take leader mitchell as we. trying to overturn an american election rather than this dude
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who is unbearable basically. >> absolutely, they to hear the commissioners who didn't want to go on the record about this because jay question adams are sewn pleasant to deal with. he is just so -- difficult to work with and hasn't done any activity to go forward, that they probably will fall the same stuff on the board of advisers so they chose to nominate cleta mitchell who they ultimately determined would be annoying, but probably wouldn't grind things to a halt. >> well everyone knows the names of cindy powell, and linwood, rudy giuliani, and i think there's been some attendance reputation will damage. cleta mitchell is not a household name, but she should be. she was on the call doing something wildly, wildly, i don't know, i nicole to american democracy. and there she is. it's your scoop, thank you for joining us on thanksgiving, eve and have a great holiday. >> thank you. >> one of the great things about tonight is knowing that
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tomorrow we will see the return of thanksgiving parades and mayor cities across the country. in places like the cargo where over 100 fold so make their way down -- street. the longest running parade returns to philly tomorrow. of course the new york city the iconic balloons are back, they're being blown up right now before they head down sixth avenue in the macy's day parade tomorrow. in houston, the return of the thanksgiving parade in that city will feature a salute to headline workers -- just so happens the grand marshal of that parade was no stranger to viewers of the show, joins us next. joins us next. can you hand me some potato skins. theyyyy're loooaded! turns out, michael buffer speaks like that all the time. and it turns out the general is a quality insurance company that's been saving people money for nearly 60 years. and in this corner, coconuuuut shriiiiiimp! for a great low rate, and nearly 60 years of quality coverage - make the right call - and go with the general. let's get rrready for garlic breeeaaad!
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[♪♪] powerful skincare ingredients come dermatologist-recommended, and there's a brand that offers them at an affordable price. try olay skincare. olay regenerist, with 99% pure niacinamide provides 5 times the hydrating power of a prestige cream; while olay collagen peptide visibly firms and reduces the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles; and olay retinol 24 brightens and smooths the skin while you sleep. for dermatologist-recommended ingredients at an affordable price, try olay skincare. as we approach thanksgiving, and people start to gather with friends and family it is appalling that there are nearly as many people dying of covid in the u.s., every single, day right now than there were at this time last year before we head back to vaccine. i said there are a couple of reasons we are in a much better state, at least going into the holidays, this time last, year
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one booster shots, everyone to get. one anyone who was eligible. which is basically everyone. if you had more than six months ago. and you are an adult. they appear to be incredibly effective. we get more data to that effect by the. day two, there is a new treatment for the virus on the rise, and both pfizer, and, merrick announce anti virus pills, and lowered the chance of hospitalization, and death. they are expected to wait on, this within the next two weeks. the washington post, reports the biden administration has already preordered enough vote -- doses for 10 million people. so what will this winter look, like in terms of covid. to help answer, that i'm joined with doctor peter hotez, who is being honored for his service tomorrow as the grand marshal of the thanksgiving day parade. thank you for joining us. let's start with where we are on this. which i think is just this maddening reality which is, the culminated of we no longer have what are called non-pharmaceutical interventions. we are not really doing much in the ways of closing businesses down, social distancing, which
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i think makes sense with the availability of vaccines. that plus a delta. i mean stuff for the population of folks that are unvaccinated, there is still this incredibly live dangerous present pandemic that is going to find everyone, morales. how do you think about? >> that's exactly right chris, look what happened in our state of texas, in june one, 20,000 unvaccinated since june 1st and needlessly unnecessarily tragically lost their lives to covid-19. none of those 20,000 individuals had to die, i don't even know what's the word used to describe this is. it goes beyond misinformation or disinformation, it's this absolute bizarre mass form up -- 20,000 people did need to die since june one and guess what
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chris it's about to happen again as this new wave. this winter wave is now sweeping across the upper midwest. what do people think it's going to happen? we still have 40% of the u.s. population unvaccinated for 41%. and we have literally millions of people individuals waiting to get attacked by covid-19 who remain to find the vaccine because of allegiance to god only knows what you want to call. it or taking useless ivermectin in its place. and i clearly appreciate the opportunity to talk to the american people by speaking with you. but you know we just got to try to do more than we are are losing their lives every day. unnecessarily because they're refusing vaccinations. we are going to hit the 800,000 deaths mark, in a couple of. weeks >> as grim as that is it does look like good data on
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boosters providing really additional protection. do you, what do you tell people ask you if they should get a booster? >> the answer is yes. if you are over the age of 18, you should get that third immunization because we have data from israel showing its not only keeping you out of the hospital and preventing you from losing your lives, from winning immunity. it helps more than six months after the two doses. but it is also looking like maybe halting infections a since dramatic transmissions. so you definitely want to get that third immunization if you're over 80, and more than six months all. it's a huge difference. closet, 30 to 40 in your neutralizing antibodies. it's going to prolong immunity, and then it may not be that you need an annual booster. so it won't be one in, done or two and done. but i think it's a possibility it could be three and. dunn >> let's talk finally about the treatment arising again. it shouldn't be as necessary as it is but given that it is, and
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given that this is the situation we find ourselves in. the washington boys will change the pandemic and they can't and it alone, experts who are thrilled with two powerful new medicines worried that the enthusiasm for the idea of the, treatments will distract in preventing illness in the first. place i wonder if you share that word. >> yes there got an interesting drugs but they only are going to be effective if they are given very very early on in the illness. because it is only affecting the virus replication face. so as the illness proceeds, then you get a host inflammatory response, and the drugs will be much much, less effective. so the thing that i am worried about is the wrong message going to be sent just to say, hey. i don't get the vaccine but i'll just take the drug and said if i get. so it doesn't work that way. the drugs are not a guaranteed by any means and you have to give it super early on in the course of infection, it's a backstop, it's not the primary
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motive to controlling this virus. you need to get vaccinated. >> all right dr. peter hotez, it's been a great pleasure to have you on this program during this pandemic. even though the pandemic itself has been brutal, bleak in many ways. but i've really come to rely on your expertise. and i'm glad you will be grand marshal-ing the parade tomorrow, to have a great. time >> thank you chris, i really appreciate it. >> all right, coming up one of the stories i've been most excited about all week, how electric bikes, could help save the planet, and why city should be giving them away for free, don't go anywhere, that's next. vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. (swords clashing) -had enough? -no... arthritis. here. new aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength? reduces inflammation? thank the gods. don't thank them too soon. kick pain in the aspercreme.
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covid, there was no vaccine. and i had to start coming into the studio to do the show. and i had a little bit of a commuting problem. i didn't really want to take the subway at that point. i think some of it that suggests that masking is actually pretty fine, but i wasn't that psyched about it but i had to get from brooklyn to midtown. it's about nine miles. and i had to deal without the subway. didn't want to take a car every day. i came up with the ultimate solution. a foldable e-bike.
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i started riding that foldable e-bike into the city nine miles, every day, back and forth. fold it up, brought it up to the office. it changed my life. best commute i have ever had in my life. unlike a regular bike where you show up in your all sweaty, you can't really like hop on air. this, you arrive cool and clean. you get to see the city. it is honestly, once you try a e-bike, you will almost certainly be a convert. and i was so psyched to see someone also evangelizing the church of the e-bike. in the new york times opinion page. the great writer, jay caspian kang, who writes for the page in the new york times quite a book. just wrote a great new book. we talked about it on the pod. wrote a piece call, "free e-bikes for everyone! ". free bikes for everyone. a sentiment i cannot more full-haertedly endorse. and i'm so excited to have the author of that piece, jay caspian kang, here with us tonight. jay, as you can tell, i am an eve by convert. tell me about your own e-bike conversion story. >> it's a tweet that one of my
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colleagues put out and it showed all of his groceries on his bike. and i was like, what? what is going on, how is that possible? i got one, similar to you i rode around in the pandemic and, i don't know it was extremely liberating for me. i take my kids to school on it. and she loves it. i don't know. it feels like the city is open in a way that it wasn't before. and i feel like everyone should feel that type of liberation and ability to sort of converse and meet with people. talk to people without having to sit inside of their car. >> yes. first of all, it's a very cool feeling because you feel like a superhero. it's the vision that i had as a kid of having a cyber suit where you are like iron man. it's like you, but you're stronger. so when you're pushing the petals, there's this extra oomph, but it also means you can put kids it, you can run
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errands on it. it it also means you're not sweating the same way. and it also means it replaces a lot of car trips. that's a key thing to think about i know a bunch of people who have gotten them for things like dropping off kids and stuff like that. and you read in the piece that city government should purchase an electronic bicycle for every resident of 15 who wants one. they should also, this is key, shut down a significant number of streets. shutting down streets for some bikes's is key not only for safety, but also because of more inconvenient driving becomes, the more people start to consider other options. available to them as a free of charge mode of transportation that will often be faster than sitting in traffic and having to find parking spot. do you think this would work? >> oh, yes. we have to get cars off the street somehow. we have to get cars off the road somehow for every reason. pedestrian safety, bike safety, but mostly because of climate change carbon that they admit. and i think you need to come up with some sort of drastic measure that also incentivizes people. and i think that we've been
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waiting around for some sort of solution to this and, i don't know, i think every single person that i talked to that has written a bike and committed to it in a way has said that it has replaced tons of their car trips. the only problem right now with having more people adopted. is a they are pretty expensive. if you give them away for free, which i think would be much cheaper if you can do at large scale. and, i don't know, i think that's the only real way that you can get cars off the road. you have to get something to replace that. and people are still going to want some sort of speed. they are still going to want some sort of convenience. i think that the bikes are the way right now. yes, and we should note, i think the key here is that we think about building this sort of city of the future. and neighborhoods of the future. not just to these cities that can work in suburban environments as well, for the kinds of trips that you would take normally with the car. we are going to need to plan cities and different ways. i know a lot of pedestrians to
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feel that e-bikes are a little dangerous, there's a lot of folks zipping around around, you can go very fast. you do need to find ways that every mode can kind of operate with each other. but just as a use case. i was just literally before i left the house, talking to kate, my wife about picking up the price tomorrow on the way up to my parents house. which is the perfect example of a--it's probably like atwo mile trip. it's a pain to walk back with pies i don't really want to take an uber. driving over there seems crazy. i'm just going to get on my e-bike and go on the four'n twenty. shout out to the best pies in new york city's. and pick up the pies. that is exactly, there are so many trips like that that can be replaced for so many people if this was in peoples hands. >> yes, i would do the same thing, if i had to go get a pizza pick it up. that's genuinely how i go pick it up. and i bike up a hill back. i get a little bit of exercise and between that and picking up
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and dropping my kid off, that is about 80% of my car rides. so, if i have a giant load of groceries and i still take my car but that is pretty rare that i need to go out and get it a ton of groceries. it could replace about 80% of what i use. and i don't live in a big city. i live in a pretty suburban place. it has done it for me. all right, jake has been kang, thank you for joining us tonight. i should say thank you again for joining me on my podcast to talk about your great grand new book, the loneliest americans. you should check that out. our episode is done no. i spoke with documentarian alex glibly about the art of filmmaking, you can listen to my conversation with all roker about how he can the weatherman he has today. or any of the other episodes like electric vehicles, health care in america, or america's favorite fighting frenchman, there is no better time to dive in then on a weekend of long drives, lots of cooking, and
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some post inner lounging. hope you check them out. i wish all of you a safe and happy thanksgiving holiday, my favorite holiday, let's all be good to each other. that is all in for this evening. good evening ali. long drives or a bike rides, i'd say you're looking good. it may not get fully sweaty on the drive, but you are putting in some -- let's put it that. way >> thank you very much. ali have a great holiday. >> you have a good one my friend. i'll see you on the other side. thanks to at-home for joining us. rachel's got the night off she will be back on monday. the law stated, quote, a private person may arrest an offender if the offense committed in his presence, or within his immediate knowledge. if the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon a reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion. that, was georgia's citizens arrest law. it enabled any ordinary citizen
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to capture any other ordinary citizen if they could claim that a person committed a crime. it was made the law of the state in 1863, it's no coincidence that that law was put into place that year. 1863 was, just after president lincoln signed thesident lincoln signed the law was codified just afte president lincoln signed the emancipation proclamation and enslaved people in georgia started fleeing their captors. and it remained the state's law during jim crow when it was used to justify the lynchings of four black people in january of 1912. it was used again to justify the killing of two black couples in july of 1946. black couples who were dragged from their cars and shot dozens of times by white the naacp has documented more than 530 acts of lynching in georgia alone between 1882 and 1968.


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