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tv   Stephanie Ruhle Reports  MSNBC  November 24, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PST

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so happy to see him back and encouraging his recovery right now. before we go, i want to point out to our audience. it is a very special day. it is the anniversary of joe scarborough and mika brzezinski. my question to you, joe, is what number will you get off the chick-fil-a menu when you go tonight? classic number one? >> i'm going to get the classic number one, but more importantly than that i'm going to do something i usually don't, and mika always wants to go. tonight i'm going to let her go to the dog track, and we're going to be betting on that, and then we're going to fly down to just north of hollywood, florida, and we're going to do high line. i bet every night i'm down there and mika always -- she says what do you do down there? well, tonight because it's our anniversary i'm going to let her know. it's pretty incredible sport. >> i loved every minute of it. >> that's how you keep the spark
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in the relationship, high lie. >> always. >> that does it for us this morning, chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> happy anniversary, happy thanksgiving. >> thank you. and with a happy anniversary to joe and mika, i am chris jansing live at the msnbc headquarters in new york. it is the day before thanksgiving, wednesday, november 24th, and we start with breaking news. the jury in brunswick, georgia, is back in deliberations right now as we speak deciding the fate of the three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. this follows more than six hours of deliberations on tuesday. i want to bring in nbc's cal perry who is outside the courtroom for us. cal, any indications of what's happening this morning and how close the jury might be to a verdict? >> reporter: yeah, chris, normally we would have no indication but last night at 5:30 p.m. the judge asking the jury what they wanted to do, if they were close to a verdict and if they wanted to stay and they
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chose to stay past the time they normally would have gone home. they stayed for an extra hour at 6:30 p.m., the judge dismissing the jury for a day. they've been in deliberations for about 20 minutes this morning. it is an indication they do seem to be close to a verdict. we'll see whether or not we get one today. if there's no verdict today, the jury will be off tomorrow and back on friday morning. one of the things they may be discussing that third defendant, william roddie bryan, his attorney going out of the way on monday in defense closings to separate his client out saying he was in the backup pickup truck, only had a cell phone. never got out of the truck, making a plea for the jury to treat him differently than the other two defendants. >> i want to bring in msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos and civil rights attorney charles coleman. danny let's start with you, if closing arguments are any indication, the jury is likely focusing on the whole idea of whether or not this was a citizens arrest, a legitimate
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citizens arrest. it's complicated in georgia law, explain what they had to face in going into that jury room, what they might be talking about now. >> georgia citizens arrest law, which has since been repealed since this incident dates back to the 1860s through a time when there were no police close by and often the citizens were the police. so it essentially allowed a citizen who believed they had probable cause of a felony to chase someone down, lay hands on him, and detain that person until the police arrive. these are antiquated statutes. it's not a good idea to go out and perform a citizens arrest in my opinion, but that's the statute that the defendants had available to them at the time of this incident. so that is the entire thrust of not only the defense, but the prosecution's efforts in defeating that citizens arrest. and the way the prosecution has interpreted the statute is that if these defendants did not have probable cause to believe a
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crime was committed and if that crime was not committed in their presence, if they didn't actually see the crime, then they don't get the benefit of citizens arrest. and if they're successful, then almost the entire defense falls with that first domino. >> and you know, charles, i'm curious what you see at the heart of this question over justification for citizens arrest because even though race was barely raised during the trial itself, the prosecutor was clear yesterday in closing saying that the men had launched an attack on mr. arbery because he was a black man running down the street. >> well, at the core of what i see when you look at what we're talking about in this case, especially with respect to the self-defense, the provocation and everything else, it is white entitlement, and you saw the prosecutor talk about that in her rebuttal yesterday without naming it. she talked about how the mcmichaels and mr. bryan cornered ahmaud arbery as if to say how dare you not stop for us. how dare you not answer our
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questions. all of those things were rooted in white entitlement despite the fact that she wouldn't necessarily name it for being what it is. race has been the 13th juror throughout this entire trial, and it's been very fascinating to watch how both the prosecution and the defense have dealt with this issue throughout the course of everything unfolding, and now that the case is with the jury. >> do you think, danny, that the defense raised a good case, made a good case for why they considered this to be citizens arrest, basically what they said was there had been a series of robberies and they thought mr. arbery looked like the person who was a suspect. >> that's right, and that's why the prosecution might have taken a risk there in characterizing arbery as just a black man running down the street or the idea that he was just jogging because, as the trial went on, evidence emerged that there was evidence that possibly arbery was not just jogging down the street, that, in fact, there was evidence that on up to three different occasions he had been
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seen in that house. the prosecution called it a looky-loo, like people when we go into an unfinished house to look at the crown moldings or the struts or something like that. instead, there was evidence that arbery or other people were on that property and things vanished. so there's been evidence on both sides. >> but he's on camera, and as the prosecutor pointed out, he was never seen taking anything away, and he was never seen bringing anything in like a bag or a sack that he could take things away in. >> exactly right, which is why you saw the defense pivot to the totality of the circumstances, arguing instead of the statute requiring that you actually see a crime, that instead all of the things that were going on in the neighborhood contributed to a general awareness that there were crimes going on and that this person may be committing those crimes. they have to make that argument because the prosecution is factually correct that they didn't actually see arbery committing a crime, other than criminal trespass arguably, and no video captured him stealing
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anything, no felony was captured on video or seen. so the defense really needs to drive home the idea that there was a general fear in the community and that that rose to the probable cause that these defendants needed to initiate the citizens arrest. >> and charles, i always put a big asterisk on this question and that asterisk is it's dangerous to try to get your mind into the minds of the jury jurors. we don't know what's going on inside that room, but what we have seen history shows us that if a weekend is coming up or a holiday is coming up, it can be an incentive for jurors to come to a verdict. do you think the issue of thanksgiving plays into timing here at all? >> i think the timing absolutely has something to do with thanksgiving. i think the holiday and the weekend both play a factor into what the jury will be thinking in terms of how it decides to deliberate and how much time it takes to get to the answers for certain questions. we want them to do their job. we want them to do their -- to honor their responsibilities as
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jurors, but we have to understand the realities here. very few people want to come back to court and continue jury duty after a holiday like thanksgiving and even fewer of those people want to come back after a weekend. so i think it's very reasonable to expect that if not today, a verdict could absolutely come on friday before the holiday weekend is completed. >> charles coleman, danny cevallos, cal perry, thanks to all of you. we'll be checking in with you, cal, i'm sure throughout the day. now to the latest on that tragic incident at a christmas parade in waukesha, wisconsin. a sixth person has now died, an 8-year-old, jackson sparks. he had been marching with his baseball team when he and dozens of others were run down by an suv. the man behind the wheel darrell brooks has been charged with five counts of intentional homicide, and now prosecutors say a sixth charge is expected to be added. nbc's megan fitzgerald is in waukesha, molly beck a reporter with the milwaukee journal sentinel. thanks to both of you.
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megan, just horrific news about this little boy, jackson sparks. what can you tell us about him and the other children who are even now fighting for their lives? isn't jackson's brother one of them? >> reporter: yeah, absolutely. i mean, just a horrific tragedy all around, so we know that 8-year-old jackson sparks underwent brain surgery on sunday. sadly losing his life yesterday, the same day that the man prosecutors say is responsible for this tragedy appeared in court for the first time. and as you mentioned, 12-year-old tucker sparks, he's also in the hospital, one of three siblings, three sets of siblings that are admitted there. we know that right now there is a total of 16 kids still in the hospital. also, just yesterday we had an opportunity to speak with a young girl who was walking in the parade as well. she was holding the banner and tells us that she was just feet away from being killed.
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this morning another family is grieving in waukesha, 8-year-old jackson sparks died monday from his injuries. the family calling it a tremendous loss. their other young son tucker was also in the icu. jackson now the sixth victim of the horrific scene sunday when a red suv drove right into crowds attending an annual christmas parade. the suspect 39-year-old darrell brooks appearing to sob during his first court appearance tuesday when prosecutors announced the child's death. brooks is now charged with five counts of intentional homicide and a sixth is expected soon. his bail set at $5 million. >> it's an extraordinarily serious case with an extraordinary history of this gentleman, of fleeing, of hurting people, of not following court orders. >> documents obtained by nbc news shows brooks had a decades' long criminal history including
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arrest for sexual abuse, drugs, battery, and domestic violence. this month he was arrested for allegedly running over his child's mother but was released after posting a $1,000 bond. >> oh, my god! oh, my god! >> 13-year-old allie walker was marking that day carrying the banner for the milwaukee dancing grannies, a group hit by the suv. >> and i heard tires squeal, and that's when i seen the car heading basically straight for the banner that i was carrying. >> reporter: on the other end of that banner, virginia sorenson, known as ginnie she was killed along with two other members, leanna owen. >> 62 other people were hurt, including 18 children leaving a devastated community to find comfort in grieving together. among the children still in the hospital we know that six are in critical condition. as far as that suspect is
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concerned, he's expected to appear in court again in january for a preliminary hearing. chris, if he's found guilty of these charges he's facing, he faces life in prison. >> molly, look, you know this community. there are a lot of questions about darrell brooks. first and foremost is how was he even out on a thousand dollars bond? have we heard any good answer from prosecutors in that case about this? >> that's the question that a lot of people have on the legal end of this, the district attorney in milwaukee county where that case was handled, he immediately put out a press release after this incident and said that he is launching an internal review of how he had -- how mr. brooks was out on a thousand dollar bail for that case, which also involved allegations of him running over another person with his vehicle. so that is a question that
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everybody is asking right now and the district attorney who oversaw that determination, bail determination is launching a review of that. >> and we do know, besides that, a lot about as we just saw in that report his troubled past. do we know about the hours leading up to this crash? what was happening right before? >> so the district attorney in waukesha county where this incident took place said yesterday that mr. brooks may have been involved in a domestic incident that was about a mile away from the parade, and that may have involved some knives, but the police chief said that they were not able to confirm that when this came to them, so they haven't released those details yet, but he was about a mile away and then started driving southbound toward the parade. a couple of police officers
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tried to stop him, and he kept driving, and the district attorney said yesterday that officers believed he was driving there intentionally, speeding up when he got closer to the parade. the officer said they believed he was trying to hit as many people as possible when he got to the parade. there was an opportunity for him to, you know, turn right instead of left into the parade, and he kept going toward people. >> so much more to deconstruct about this. molly beck, thank you. we appreciate it very much. new demands from the january 6th committee. investigators have just subpoenaed far right groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers, but what are the chances they actually comply and what happens if they don't? plus, every day for the last three weeks more than a million people have gotten a covid shot, but will that be enough to stop the surges we're seeing and could thanksgiving celebrations still be risky?
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- san francisco can have criminal justice reform and public safety. but district attorney chesa boudin is failing on both. - the safety of san francisco is dependent upon chesa being recalled as soon as possible. - i didn't support the newsom recall but this is different. - chesa takes a very radical perspective and approach to criminal justice reform, which is having a negative impact on communities of color. - i never in a million years thought that my son, let alone any six-year-old, would be gunned down in the streets of san francisco and not get any justice. - chesa's failure has resulted in increase in crime against asian americans. - the da's office is in complete turmoil at this point. - for chesa boudin to intervene in so many cases is both bad management and dangerous for the city of san francisco. - we are for criminal justice reform. chesa's not it. recall chesa boudin now.
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ooh, that's really cool! wow! this is awesome. what we got here is the weekender box. it's a cocktail aging kit, i think that's really, really cool. drop point blade with 256 layers of forged steel. that's nuts! i just love that every time we open a box from bespoke, we're most likely getting something from a small brand. bespoke post sends you awesome boxes every month and i love it. head to bespokepost.com and get a free gift with your first box when you enter code free. we're following new developments this morning in the house select committee's investigation into january 6th. the committee has issued five new subpoenas to far right groups like the proud boys and the oath keepers. it comes after they subpoenaed five top allies of former president trump including his long-time adviser roger stone and conspiracy theorist alex jones.
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also this morning, four years after the violent white nationalist rally in charlottesville, virginia, led to one person's death, a jury has just awarded $25 million in damages to nine victims injured that day and the rally organizers are liable. nbc's ali vitali is on capitol hill, ken dilanian has followed the charlottesville trial closely. good to see both of you on this day before thanksgiving. on top additional subpoenas yesterday was the deadline for the is a people to hand over documents to the committee. do we know if they complied? >> chris, those are some key 15 people, and yes, their documents deadlines were yesterday, but i think the day that we've seen whether or not people are cooperating or not actually comes once they hit their deposition deadlines because, remember, the way that these subpoenas have been working is the documents deadlines and the physical deposition deadlines have been different days. for a lot of these 15 people
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that you showed on the screen, their depositions come at some point in the next two to three weeks. as much as the committee is not commenting when people are cooperating and complying with their subpoenas, we do know when people are not. for example, of course we know what's going on with steve bannon, the house committee moved to them criminally refer him, the doj now prosecuting that referral, and of course with mark meadows what we've seen is meadows effectively saying he's not going to comply. he didn't show up for his deposition, and it's likely that we could see them move forward with some kind of referral whether it's civil or criminal in terms of trying to force him to comply as well. and then of course we know that former doj official jeffrey clark also not cooperating. we did, though, just hear from one of the people on that list of subpoenas that you just showed on the screen, former new york city police commissioner bernie kerik saying in a statement reported from our peter alexander through his lawyer that he will cooperate with the january 6th subpoena,
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but that he wants an apology if the committee. there are people who are cooperating. we know that the committee has talked to more than 200 people, and some of those 200 people have been voluntary. others of them have been people who have been served with subpoenas, so the committee moving forward on their work, even if it's not exactly in the light of day. >> let's turn to this so-called unite the right trial. the jury found charlottesville victims are entitled to millions of dollars and says organizers are liable. who are we talking about exactly? what are the chances any of that money actually gets paid? >> good morning, chris. we're talking about some of the most prominent white supremacist and racist organizations in the country, including richard spencer who kind the term alt-right and defended himself in the trial and a man named jason kessler, a guy named christopher cantwell who became known as the crying nazi because of a video he made.
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he also defended himself in a very bizarre trial. the answer to your question is the plaintiffs don't expect that these defendants are going to be able to pay $25 million in damages. in fact, almost half of that money was leied against james fields, the man who drove the car into the crowd and killed heather heyer and injured many other people. he's serving life in prison, so he doesn't have $12 million. but the point here is to bankrupt these defendants. these judgments will follow them around for the rest of their lives, and to send a message that this kind of conduct, conspiring to commit racial violence can't be tolerated and needs to be punished, even if it's not in a criminal context, chris. >> you do wonder is there any real legitimate expectation that somebody who is thinking about doing something like this is going to say i better not because i might go to court and i might end up getting a multimillion dollars fine. i'm broke anyway so who cares. >> well, i mean, the -- you know, the far right movements in
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this country follow this trial very closely. they know that these formerly prominent leaders are now going to be bankrupt. and i have to say, chris, this was only a partial victory because on some of the most important counts, the conspiracy counts under that 1871 ku klux klan law, the jury deadlocked and it was a confusing verdict because they did find a conspiracy under virginia law. the plaintiffs say they will refile those charges, which they're entitled to do in the civil context. we'll see what happens on that. that's important because donald trump, steve bannon, and rudy giuliani and others are being sued under that same 1871 law accusing them of fomenting the january 6th insurrection. >> that will be very interesting. ken dilanian, ali vitali, good to see both of you. and what is sure to be one of the biggest topics at the thanksgiving table, how to stay safe from covid even when you're back celebrating with the family. will boosters be key, and could the holidays make the spikes we're already seeing even worse? we're going to break it all down next. break it all down next
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this morning as more than 53 million americans are expected to travel this holiday, there is also a spike in covid cases, and that's fueling new concerns about what could be ahead this
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winter. one bright spot, health experts are hopeful that boosters could make a difference. for three weeks in a row now, the daily average for shots in arms have topped 1 million per day. a majority of them boosters. meanwhile, the biden administration yesterday asked a federal appeals court to lift an order halting its covid vaccine and testing requirements for private buzzes. i want to bring in dr. is a lean gounder, infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist at nyu school of medicine, and host of the american diagnosis and epidemic podcast. good to see you dr. gounder. considering the sheer number of americans who are going to be traveling this week, give us an idea of how big a difference both the vaccine but the booster in particular will make on thanksgiving tomorrow. >> chris, the most important thing is that everyone at the gathering on thanksgiving day be vaccinated, fully vaccinated. the boosters do provide additional protection particularly for older
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immunocompromised more vulnerable people. if those kinds of folks are going to be at the gathering, it really does help to provide an additional dose of vaccine to further enhance their protection. you know, and then all the other things that we've been doing throughout the pandemic that really do remain effective, particularly if you're in an area of high transmission, a covid hot spot, we really do advise layering. you could think of it as your winter layers. other measures like rapid testing, opening windows and doors, doing as much outdoors as the weather allows, buying yourself a hepa filtration unit, and in some settings, for example, if you're going to visit an elderly relative in a nursing home, continuing to wear masks. >> when you say everybody should be vaccinated at the table, given that kids have only been able to get vaccinated recently and i know people personally who have had trouble getting an appointment to get their kid in to get the shot, what do you say about that?
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>> well, i would call your local department of health and see about getting your kid a vaccine appointment -- >> but can they sit at the table with grandma and grandpa tomorrow? >> yeah, this is a situation where, again, those winter layers are really important. so think of it, you know, in terms of the rapid testing as sort of your first line winter layer. you can get them from cvs, walgreen's, walmart. you can get them online. there's a number of places you can get these. i would be using them at a minimum every other day to screen kids who are not yet vaccinated. i will let you -- you know, as an example, my little niece who's 2 years old was rapid tested this weekend, came back covid positive, and we're not going to be able to celebrate thanksgiving with my mom and the rest of my family. these are extremely useful tools in these kinds of settings, especially when somebody like a child who's under 5 can't yet
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get vaccinated. >> i don't want to pry, but is she okay? >> she is okay. her oxygen levels are -- her aunt keeps texting and asking, but she's doing okay fortunately. >> it's good she has an auntie who knows everything and can tell, you know, tell mom and dad exactly what they should be up to. look, i also want to just quickly ask you about specifically the time line on boosters. if you get your shot until this week, if you didn't get jr. shot until yesterday, what does that mean for you tomorrow? >> well, it takes about two weeks for the boosters to really kick in to help you have that high antibody level that will provide the extra protection. so you know, no vaccine is going to take immediate effect. you do have to realize that there is a delay, and so again, go back to those winter layers, testing, ventilation, masking and so on, and those really do provide an extra layer of protection in this context.
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>> dr. celine gounder, happy thanksgiving to you and yours, thank you, appreciate it. this morning on top of those concerns about the pandemic, there's another big question this holiday, will food banks have enough on their shelves to help out those in need. this is of course already projected to be the most expensive thanksgiving dinner ever because of the inflation we're seeing on just about everything, and that's on top of some widespread shortages at grocery stores. it's putting a major pinch on food banks. it's one of their biggest weeks of the year. nbc's dasha burns is in boston at the greater boston food bank. i'm also joined by cindy young, board president at the help center in florence, alabama. they provide food, clothing and medicine to people in need in that community. thanks both for being with us. dasha, let's start with the simple fact, the cost of turkey is up, potatoes, frozen vegetables, canned goods, it feels like everything is more expensive. demand is also up at food banks like the one where you are. tell us what you're seeing. >> yeah, chris, i'm at the
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central hub for the greater boston food bank. this warehouse is more than 100,000 square feet, and all of the stacks of food that you see here, that is the supply for 600 food pantries, meal programs, shelters all across massachusetts. this is one of the largest food banks in the country, and on a normal day, this is a massive complicated operation, but they are now seeing challenges like they've never seen before. their demand has doubled over the course of the pandemic. it's increasing again at the same time as they're dealing with these supply chain issues. sweet potatoes, chris, are up almost 30%, and these folks here, they're working on a limited budget. they might need to substitute with things like yams instead. there are also items you simply can't find right now. there's a shortage of canned cranberry sauce, so they're looking to substitute with bags frozen or fresh cranberries, and the folks here, they tell us that the challenges go beyond just the food supply.
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take a listen. >> it is very challenging right now to get pallets, to get cardboard boxes, to get aluminum cans. we acquired a finite amount of cranberry sauce in a can. so in order to fill the pipeline, we supplemented with fresh cranberries and with frozen cranberries. >> reporter: so chris on any given day this food bank has to have a plan a, b, c, to get these goods out the door and to those food pantries because they need them right now. we just went yesterday to one of these deliveries, another site, a food pantry where we saw hundreds of folks in line to get that food, and the executive director there told me that some of the people she's seeing, they're coming for the very first time. others she's seeing came at the beginning of the pandemic, then got back on their feet. they found employment or got their jobs back, but now they're
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coming back again because that paycheck when they go to the grocery store just isn't going far enough. and so this food bank, they're going to get food on people's plates, but that thanksgiving plate might look a little bit different this year, chris. >> so cindy, i'm sure nothing that dasha is saying is a big surprise to you. you live this every day. you operate in one of the poorest states in the country and thanksgiving always has a high demand. tell us what you're seeing where you are. >> we're seeing pretty much the same thing. we've got families that have never been to a food pantry before. they're desperate. they're scared. they're overwhelmed. they're saying, you know, we don't know what to do. this is new for me. i don't have enough food to feed my family. they have family members that have been lost to covid. we have grandparents that are raising grandkids, and they just don't have the money to stretch to buy enough food to feed them. so we're doing our best to feed them, to give them enough food
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to get through the holidays and beyond. >> will what you give them look like a traditional thanksgiving dinner, or are there particular items that you're having trouble getting? >> it will not be a traditional thanksgiving dinner. sadly, this year we had six turkeys that were donated. six, and on any given day we're feeding as many as 70 to 90 families, so we've had to be very selective in who got the turkeys and the thanksgiving dinners that went with them. we've tried to supplement with other kinds of meat so that the families have meat on their table for thanksgiving, but it has not been the traditional thanksgiving food. >> we have heard from some industry leaders that the worst of our supply chain issues are over, but are you seeing any
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sign of that, and how are you feeling not just about this weekend and the thanksgiving holiday, but about the immediate future overall? >> the immediate future can be very daunting. the food that i have coming in is going out as fast as it's coming in, which means that i'm not able to have reserves on hand. typically during christmas and for several weeks around christmas our food supply chain trucks will slow down and stop. therefore, historically i've always tried to keep a reserve on hand to get our families through those several weeks. sadly, this year i do not have that reserve. i have huge empty gaps in my warehouse, and i just -- i don't have the food in reserve yet to be able to provide for the weeks and months during christmas and
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the months beyond to be able to feed our families appropriately. >> cindy young, i can't thank you enough for all you and the folks who work with you do day in ask day out, and let's hope for maybe a little holiday miracle and you get some additional help to feed those families. dasha burns, thanks to you as well. still to come, could former president donald trump's false claims of election actually help win republicans over. we'll dig into reports of what trump is telling advisers. plus, former tech stars elizabeth holmes has now admitted she doctored lab reports at her former startup theranos, but she insists she didn't do anything wrong. we'll get the latest from her fraud trial ahead. from her fraud trial ahead. elt like a ''. everything. but then ray went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows his glucose levels when he needs to. and... when he wants to.
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♪ ♪ move to a sofi personal loan. earn $10 just for viewing your rate — and get your money right. ♪ (tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. and get your money right. ♪ ♪ former president trump has continued to make false claims of voter fraud, a central issue ahead of next year's midterms, and now "the wall street journal" reports that trump has,
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quote, told advisers the issue will help the party win control of congress next year and win back the white house in 2024. he has privately floated the possibility of an early presidential campaign announcement to underscore the message to conservative voters. it comes as republicans in wisconsin are attempting to take over the state's election process just one month after a report found no evidence of fraud in the 2020 election. joining me now, charlie sykes msnbc contributor and the editor at large of the bulwark, joining me peter baker chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" and an nbc news political analyst and co-author of "the man who ran washington." great to see you guys, peter this is one of washington's hottest parlor games, will trump run or won't he, obviously the answers, the consequence s of that answer are enormous. is there any strong indication one way or another? >> well, that's a great
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question. you know, we're currently writing a book about the trump presidency and we've been interviewing him and a lot of his people as part of that. he wants to keep that open as long as possible. the minute he says he's not running if he doesn't run, it would turn off the attention, it would turn off the money, it would turn off the -- sort of the power that he has right now within the republican party. so it's in his interest to keep this guessing game alive as long as possible. it doesn't mean he's actually going to run. he certainly wants to encourage everybody to think he might. what you hear from some people who have been close to him over the years, what they'll say is, look, he doesn't want to run if he'll lose again. there's nothing worse in his lexicon than being a loser. he's already lost once, even if he doesn't admit it. one of the things that might encourage him, first of all, would be good republican victories in next year's midterm elections and more of the kind of changing of the system that we're talking about in wisconsin that might, you know, tilt the odds in his favor, might
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encourage him to think he can pull it off in 2024 in a way he couldn't in 2020. >> so charlie, what might former president trump announcing his candidacy for 2024 mean for the midterms, and have you heard anything or what's your thoughts about the possibility of him running? >> well, i agree with peter's analysis. look, i assume personally that he is going to run. >> really? >> but -- >> well, yes, i assume he's looking at the polls, he wants to triumphantly return. he knows that joe biden is weak in the polls right now. he's looking at the polls showing what a dominant force he is in the republican party. but if he announces early, particularly before the midterms, what he does is to effectively put himself on the midterm ballot, and you know, this is one thing that i think republicans are going to have very, very mixed feelings about. obviously this motivates the base, but it also motivates the democratic base, and you know, in virginia i think you saw the formula for republicans to win.
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give yourself a little bit of distance, don't make the race about donald trump, but donald trump makes that announcement and he turns the midterms into a referendum on donald trump, and that would be, i think, in many ways a gift to the democrats. >> so let's talk about the midterms a little more, peter because in virginia after glenn youngkin upset terry mcauliffe there was a lot of speculation that this was a template for other republicans. he walked this fine line of not criticizing trump but then not being seen with him either. with weeks past and i guess some time for reflection, do you expect other republicans running for office would try to duplicate that? and what he also did was not make false allegations of voter fraud a central issue. >> yeah, no, i think that's right. i've spent some time with some establishment republicans who are, you know, spent time in the highest offices in the last few weeks, and bush era kind of republicans, and they're looking
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at youngkin as their way out. these are republicans that don't like trump, outspoken and criticize and don't think that the liz cheney adam kinzinger. >> we have breaking news out of brunswick, georgia, the judge has come back in the ahmaud arbery trial. let's listen to what he's saying. >> and i'm going to go ahead and play this evidence, although i want to make sure that we are, in fact, playing what is being requested, and the reason i say that is because on this first bullet point, the original video short version, the original video, the full video was tendered into evidence as exhibit 190. there a half speed version of the short version of the video, which is exhibit 191, and then there is a what was described as the high contrast version of the video, which is exhibit 192. i do want to make sure that i understand what's being
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requested. we can play the full video, a shortened version of the full video if i get a clear understanding of what exactly the jury's looking for or 191 is the half speed version of the short video. did that make sense? >> i believe so. we do not want the half speed version. >> okay. so it's the video itself from what point, from where the camera gets picked up? that's what i'm understanding. >> correct, that's correct. >> all right. so when the camera -- okay. so can the state find that point on the video. and then the high contrast version, i understand, is the shortened version that is in high contrast. and then i want to make sure that you all understand the 911 call made by greg mcmichael on february 23rd, the entire call
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is about five minutes. the first part of it was played and then there's some deadup and follow-up to see if somebody's on the line. if i could just get you to raise your hand at the point we no longer need to listen to that 911 call and we'll stop it at that point. do you understand? >> yes, sir. >> does everybody understand where we are? >> yes, judge. >> i understand that you were requesting that each of the videos be played three times each. >> that's correct. >> let's start with the original video picking up from when the phone comes up. that would be 190, a shortened version of exhibit 190. yes, yeah, you can sit wherever you are most comfortable. it's on the record we'll say
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where we're playing from too. >> yes, judge. >> for the record, the state is publishing state's exhibit 190 beginning at 1:08. [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ]
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[ gunshot ] [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ] [ gunshot ]
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[ gunshot ] >> all right. all right. for the retired, that was 190 starting at 1:08 played three times for the panel. i think we are at 192. >> now publishing state's exhibit 192.
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>> ladies and gentlemen, that was 192 three times as requested by the panel. we have 144, and again, madam foreperson, raise your hand at which point we need to stop. [ phone ringing ] >> 911, what's the address of your emergency? >> i'm out here at -- there's a black male running down the street -- >> where -- where at?
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>> i don't know what street we're on. >> stop! >> travis -- >> sir? hello? sir? >> can you stop it? >> sir, where you at? >> okay. thank you. all right, ladies and gentlemen. if you would -- i'm sorry. >> did they want to hear that one three times? >> no. that was just the request once. >> thank you. sorry. >> all right. thank you, ladies and gentlemen. if you would go and return to the jury room to continue with your deliberations. >> all rise, please. >> that was obviously the jury coming back into the courtroom. they had asked to see video, asked to hear the 911 call. the man you saw on the right, gregory mcmichael, father of travis mcmichael, one of the defendants in this case. back with us, nbc's cal perry who was outside the courthouse and nbc news legal analyst danny cevallos is back with me. cal, that's the first time we've
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heard from the jury this morning, correct? >> reporter: yes, first time we've heard from them at all since they started deliberating. this was their first question, and it was to see the video that we saw filmed by william roddie bryan. he's the man in the second pickup truck. it was his cell phone video they asked to see the low-res version, then the high-res version three times. the voice you heard on the 911 call is greg mcmichael, the man you saw on your screen most of the time. that phone call was a centerpiece of the prosecution's closing because you hear greg mcmichael dial 911, you hear the operator say "what is your emergency," and he says, "there's a black man running down the street." the prosecution saying that to the jury is really all you need to know about there case. it, again, was a centerpiece of their closing. >> and danny, when they want to look at that video of the shooting again, not once, not twice, but three times, does that tell you anything? >> i'm just guessing, but what this could mean is that the jury has already moved on past the issue of citizens arrest as to
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some of the defendants. if they concluded valid citizens arrest for each of the defendants, they might not even have any need to see the video or listen to the 911 tape. that doesn't mean to say they dispensed from it for william roddie bryan who has different facts than those who carried the guns and con fronted arbery. it's possible they've moved past citizens arrest and are considering the underlying criminal charges. again, that's just conjecture. i've never been in a jury room and probably never will be. >> let's clarify for folks who haven't been following this very closely. yesterday in the instructions to the jury, the judge said you have to consider each of these defendants individually, right? the. >> exactly right. that was contained in the instructions. the proposed instructions. and the reality is in georgia, they're charged as something called co-parties or parties, it's essentially accomplice liability in other jurisdictions. and yes, the jury needs to consider the charges as to each defendant which works very much in the favor of william roddie
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bryan who, as the evidence showed, didn't actually coordinate, didn't actually carry a gun, and may not, may not have even know there was a firearm involved until the last seconds. at least that's the argument that the defense made. so like i said, they may have already concluded that citizens arrest doesn't apply at least as to one defendant, and that is why they are moving on to look at the video. if citizens arrest applied, there may be no need for the video. >> all right. danny, thank you for that. thank you, cal perry, as well. we'll have much more on what we heard as the jury continues to deliberate in georgia. coming up, millions of americans are on the road or in the sky this day before thanksgiving. we'll help you get ready for the traffic and gas prices that you might see ahead. stay with us. as someone who resembles someone else,
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