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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  November 19, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST

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good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, november 19th. >> it's really interesting. >> what's interesting. >> i felt like getting asleep. i checked twitter and saw kevin mccarthy was talking. >> i went back to sleep. >> oh, you don't sleep well. >> what i found at 2:30 was kevin mccarthy was still talking. he's talking about chinese general. i better get back to sleep. i will dive to deep to it and stay away. >> along with joe, willie and
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me. >> can we thank though, i think kevin felt bad about the gosar thing because he's kind of him. >> he did? >> to lay all of these out so democrats are going to pass this historic bill when the whole world is watching. >> kevin, i am sure -- >> maybe a little coffee. >> as joe mentioned, we have our senior capital hill garrett haec garrett haake is with us. >> eugene robinson is with us and a.j. alrod and david
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drucker, the author of "in trump's show." and also the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. >> of course does it have a future? you actually can write about three minutes and you are in a state that's selected a former governor and cabinet overwhelmingly. >> and 24 hours a day and we saw over night of kevin mccarthy's speech. >> yesterday on pennsylvania avenue, democrats were so distressed. they just seemed to be this is a general feeling on the hill, we are lost and we don't know what they are doing.
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i went away from it and i thought this is how democrats felt in 1981 when ronald reagan won the landslide, republicans took over a year later. republicans had if you talk to people that had been around, their most heartbreaking lost in midterm elections in 1982. i always saw about carl rode for talking about after the -- >> permanent majority. >> two years later, nancy pelosi is speaker of the house. >> i say it all the time. it needs to be said in 2008. barack obama wins and that's the end of the world as republicans know it. there is no way, two years later the tea party. . >> that happens.
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>> it's the way it works and it goes back and forth. look at wikipedia, people. >> exactly. >> back and forth. >> especially this century, we have seen a wave of 2006 and '14 and we saw a wave in '18. this thing is going back and forth with huge swings. every time this happens, people think they are dead and buried in decades. >> i know we got elected in '94. we talked about the permanent realliancement. i remember u.s. news with buzzards circling around. >> we are going to find the next
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big thing out there some where. >> parties always find a way and so it's interesting. but willie, anyway, now we blink and the democrats who lost virginia and a lot of other races in virginia almost lost in new jersey, we are not getting anything done and pass the historic infrastructure pill that spike the fact that people in the house are allowing their heads to blow off their should ers. it's a bipartisan bill. last night or this morning they're going to pass bbb. >> i looked at that thing is supposed to be a bill. it does look like a cigarette by the way. dude, i don't do cigarettes. now they're going to pass this universal pre-k and health for
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citizens and tax cuts for a lot of americans. this is a bill that 58% of americans support and only 38% opposed. a lot of things breaking. things are breaking fast. >> yeah, no question about it. there is a reason democrats want to get back to recess and spend some time of what they just passed. we saw president biden burned out in the electric car. they'll talk about the infrastructure bill. kevin mccarthy did not stop the build back better bill, he just delayed it. the house will meet to finish consideration of the build back better bill act, democrats have planned to vote yesterday. process was held last night
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because of a speech of minority leader lasted eight hours and 32 minutes. >> kill me. >> jesus. >> breaking the previous record. speaker pelosi -- >> the final length let's say it one more time. eight hours, 32 minutes. he finished at 5:10 a.m. >> we are going to spare you most of this, joe. we'll audit along with garrett. here is a small example. >> please don't. >> i want to go back to when we were respected around the world. i want to go back when we didn't have north korea testing weapons. this day is only one black american elected to congress and to the senate, tim scott. madame speaker, i know your body
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knows how to impeach, you have done it twice. there are two families that grow 50% of all the carrots in all the country. there is no such thing, they're big carrots and you chop them and you buy them. i have a friend serves in the senate right before covid. with the military general and the chinese communist army, you know what that general said to him? america, you are weak. you are weak, america. you are weak because you believe in god and you take fentanyl. >> that was one of the minutes from the eight hours and 32. baby carrots --
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>> what you are saying yes, this does remind me of churchill where he says the battle of fran is over and the battle of britain is about to begin, asparagus, asparagus, asparagus, that's the answer. i don't care where this comes from. i just have to say. he's talking about north korea? donald trump sent love letters. >> i don't know who he was trying to talk about. and trump talked about chocolate
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cake. he looked and he said this is the best chocolate cake. >> i am not sure what kevin was getting at. you go down the issues and if democrats can stop 2.73, no. 1.82. they have been total idiots over the past six months about all of this. if they can talk about universal pre-k for working moms and universal pre-k for working dads and other benefits for seniors. i personally hate assault stuff. everyone swing district you go up in new jersey and new york and all along, the democrats
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just gave swing voters huge tax cuts. >> absolutely. >> if they can talk about the issue, they'll find it in their district, they are extremely popular. >> that's the whole ball game here. >> every conference i go to of pelosi, she's trying to yank it back into this bill. it's a week about being less popular. you can't sell a bill that way. you can't sell the good stuff in it. the fact that insulin prices will go down. that's a simple basic understandable thing that you can finally sell. they lack that for months. it has been sort of a slow bleed of support as we just talk pd about what's not in this bill. >> this is something that'll help me.
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>> what's that? >> you? >> they're going to help pay for my hearing aid. >> we look though at the specifics. democrats have learned. we always think the virginia races and new jersey races a year later. it's a great sort of midterm report. >> rosetta's stones for what about to happen. >> democrats have learned. you can't just talk about trump. they can talk about expanding medicare and you know healthcare costs. prescription drugs going down. gosar, absolutely a vile thing he did. when democrats talking about
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gosar and aoc instead of inflation and pre-k. they lose. >> one it has to get through the senate. they're about to couldn't to negotiate themselves about how the get this thing across the finish line. voters are interesting, you may offer them a panel of items they really like in of it itself but they don't think these items address their number one problem, does not make them happen. democrat haves to find a better way and the president has to lead on this and he's not done a good job acknowledging inflation is a problem. not just the unfortunate by product of a great recovery of coronavirus. he has to say i know this is a problem and here is what i am doing to fix it. it's not enough to say well these things are going to fix inflation. he's got to find a way to make them feel as though he's
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addressing the problem head on and acknowledges and this is what happens in the recovery of the pandemic. if they can start to to that and stop fighting themselves and show they are governing, they give themselves a fighting chance heading into 2022. the rosetta's stones is a great description to look at virginia. we saw this before 2010 and 2014. democrats are in a world of hurt because voters have been unhappy of leadership. they see it in washington. it's now the problem they have. >> i can't get straws at starbucks. >> i hear that. >> it's joe biden's fault. >> we talked about inflation, what does the white house do and what do democrats do to address that? >> first of all, we'll pass the act today and you will hear the administration going out and
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sell this bill. we are talking about and by the way this table can go out to america and sell what's in this legislation because we had a conversation about all the great attributes that this bill has so we'll have the help american. yes, the white house is going to have to start addressing inflation. i think they have been. look, people are going to grocery stores and they're seeing the price of milk increase and turkey not on the shelves and thanksgiving is coming up. the white house is aware of this. there is a number of economists passing the build back better bill act that'll reduce inflation in long-term. you will hear the outside echo chamber address it as well. >> do something. >> there are billboards around your community, right?
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>> you see them cut gas taxes. >> less liberal economist attack you. that's what you want. please, paul crudman, say really bad thing of joe biden cutting the gas tax. >> wait, one more thing about kevin mccarthy. >> yes. >> he's pledging to restore the committee assignment of two republicans who were booted from their roles if the gop retakes the house next year. speaking yesterday for a long time, mccarthy vowed to reinstate and possibly promote both paul gosar of arizona and marjorie taylor greene if republicans regain control in the midterm elections. earlier this week the house voted to sensor gosar and strip
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him of his assignments after he posted an animated cartoon of killing a colleague. let's take a look at some of that exchange first. >> why is it the only thing republicans will punish their own members of congress is speaking out of donald trump. >> i don't understand your question. >> the only republican member who's been anyway punished by the conference this year is liz cheney. >> did she lose her committee? >> she lost her role. >> that's an election. she lost an election. people go out for elections all the time. no bases there. >> yes, ma'am?
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>> democrats have been so upset about. >> really? >> let's talk about this since you raised the issue. democrats have been so upset about, were they upset of maxine waters? >> with no respect, sir, i am asking about your members. >> wow. >> now they're talking about promoting these two people which of course i know meant to shock but just because something meant to shock does not mean it. these two members pushing out violent imagery. again, not to sound like an old man but my god, if we had said something -- chairman of the arms services committee.
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old, south guy, he may have lived on a plantation, i don't know. his member is ron delums. i go in there and it's my first day and just elected and i am talking to floyd. so good to see you. thank you very much and we are sitting there talking and we are going threw these wide range of things. oh, can you believe clinton's tax and what about rondale, how do you work with him. you may not agree with each other but he's a good decent man. i just sat there and boom, the guard rails are put up. you show respect to others who you work with. here is a guy that could not have less in common with rondale, this berkeley, radical wonderful man.
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yes, i love him. but, is that amaing that you get a guy from the deep south. i am sure he was for segregation, i don't know his past. >> that was his past. >> you got rondale and these people together. i guarantee you, if somebody tried to talk about floyd and rondale will do the same thing. here we have the encourage. >> this is a different congress. the way to look at this, if you are kevin mccarthy, this is about the speakership, everything is. he can't back down one inch when it comes to defending the members on his far right. he's not a natural fit with them. it's not who he is to be that kind of mean spirit. >> they can do anything? >> pretty much. >> as long as trump supports him. >> gosar made a point about his endorsement of paul gosar. that's a warning shot to kevin mccarthy as much to anything
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else. >> you know who else has a warning shot to? to say this guy over here, i know mitchell already wishes donald trump disappears for good. this guy is going to continue to be a scourge. here is a guy that sends out violent imagery to members of congress and next thing trump says yes, this is my party. >> there is something else that's happening here. that's the vote for speaker. as we have seen over the past ten years or so, you think you win the majority and you head into that vote for speaker, we need 218 votes and it's a done deal. why is he going to say publicly that he's going to restore marjorie taylor greene and maybe give -- it was as much about
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that last night than anything. >> you hear over and over again as i have heard the past six months that kevin mccarthy will never be speaker. why are you saying that? because people close to trump just say he hates him and will never forgive him and he's never going to be speaker. >> he told us yesterday that trump called him from the golf course. >> oh lord. >> they're definitely still in touch. >> they're in touch constantly. the leaders try to involve trump of everything they do. i told the former president that leader mccarthy is obsessed with keeping a peace with you and he rolls his eyes and he said, yes,
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i know. >> they're certainly trying to and they highlight how broken their estimation the republican party is. we heard this week from the house floor when congresswoman ocasio-cortez who was the target of that is video put out by representative gosar took to the house floor and pleaded to kevin mccarthy, why is it so hard to say something he's wrong. they want to suggest that contrast between how republicans do politics and how democrats do. now to be clear as to joe's point earlier. that's not going to win them elections. most of them seem to know that. that alone is not going to get him a second term. it's about managing the pandemic and reviving the economy and things of that nature. they know that. that's why you will see with a
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vote today once it clears the house, that's another important step. they believe in giving themselves and a platform to run next year. it's a long way to go in the senate. it's a step in the right direction. we should exec to hear the president continues his road show across the country. >> if house democrats are smart and those that are in districts that are close, they now can go to town hall meetings and they can hold town hall meetings everyday. if you have a good economy which i think they're going to have next year and if covid sort of cycled out which it should be cycled out next year there is nothing easier than going to town all meetings, balancing the budget and we have balanced it
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four years in a row and we passed welfare reform and passed regulatory reform. you have like 10 or 12 things. by the time you are finished with it, nobody in your town hall meeting is saying oh, they're doing nothing. democrats now in a position where they can say that about roads, bridges and clean water and airports and broad band for america then you start adding prescription drug prices going down and senior citizens expanded medicare and child care cost going down. if you are a house member, you need to have 12 things you need to memorize. there is not going to be anybody in there talking about how nothing gets done in washington. >> today they'll vote about 90 minutes from now, democrats will go back for thanksgiving recess and doing what you talked about, go brag about what they just
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voted for. garrett, let's tie it up, are democrats sure they got the votes here? looks like they do. to jonathan lemire's point there is still a big mountain to climb in the senate where you got not just manchin but sinema but other democrats have questions about how much it costs and how it's going to be paid for. what's the future if it gets out of the house today? >> i do think they have the votes on the house side. we heard from one democrat in maine who'll vote against it. the senate's side, joe manchin is in a lonelier position. we saw sinema speaking at the white house this week. that felt like a reward. we know you on the team, she's
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with them. now it's up to manchin to decide if he can stomach this bill. that vote seems to be baked in. he also has a policy solution. he says he's not for the paid leave vision. that caused about as much as moving the irs tax revision is short. if he succeeds killing that. >> also, kirsten sinema wearing high-heel hot pink into the house. >> you go home and talk about what you passed and you make a
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joke about the house of lord and everybody laughs. >> nancy pelosi put us back in the bill because she wanted to get house members on the record knowing how overwhelmingly popular especially in some of the purple districts, it's popular among republicans, too. how they supported all the measures in build back better bill act. yes, members of congress can go back home and they were eager to do this. we got thanksgiving coming up and christmas and holidays coming up. they want something positive to talk about. he just laid it out perfectly. they got infrastructure to talk about and roads and bridges. they got so much to run on. the house has done their business. >> right.
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>> now joe manchin can duke it out and get something passed. i hope paid leave will stay in there. regardless nancy pelosi did her job. house members can go home and sell this. >> joe manchin fights every word, the devils in the details. for joe, deficits matter, making sure the cba score balances out matters. how do they get there is the question. he said he's worried about inflation, let's wait and see what inflation does. it almost has to be revenue neutral. >> i think one thing to understand about manchin is being the only democrat in town resisting is great politics for him. his age and at this point of his
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career, he does not care and feel the pressure. by senate republicans helping to pass that infrastructure bill, it created less pressure on him because he was able to say to himself and tell his fellow democrats, look, things work around here when we cooperated for republicans and when we work on things that the americans like. all that psychologically empowered joe manchin to hold tl line on this bill. and manchin has said that's another red line for him and they'll have to work it out in the senate. it's not just a matter of cost. if you look at polling. west virginia is just happy with joe manchin doing what he is doing. >> right, i think a lot of this
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can be solved by some sense by the president resuscitaing his own standing. the polling varies and the trends are clear. we know what it's saying. if democrats want to have a better chance of trying to get joe manchin on board if they want a better chance of convincing the public this is addressing the needs they have right now, it would be better if the public trusted the president's leadership and his ability to manage things better. it took a big hit over the summer even with passage of infrastructure bill. it was something that former president trump could not do, the republican congress in 2017 and '18 could not do. get it done in a unique moment and given the era that we are in. it didn't really change anything. that'll mange everyone feel better of what he's doing above and beyond these policy details.
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>> david strucker, thank you very much. >> the book. >> thank you for the book. we'll be reading that. nbc news senior capitol hill, garrett haake, thank you very much. nice work. the defense rests its case in the trial of the men accusing murdering ahmaud arbery but not before the defendant who was cross examined on the witness stand. >> he didn't do well. >> we'll bring in reverend al sharpton who was mentioned in the courtroom. plus, a lot more americans could be eligible for booster shots of both pfizer and moderna covid vaccines. nearly a dozen states are taken part in an investigation of instagram. after the company found the platform could be harmful to children and young adults. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. watching "m
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we'll be right back. vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done.
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♪ 37 past the hour, the defend for the three men rested its case yesterday. the shooter said he had been trying to detain arbery before police could arrive. accused arbery of attacking the pickup truck driver, this opens the door to a thorough
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cross-examination. >> have he said anything to you? >> no. >> still running? >> towards me. >> has not shown you a weapon this entire time. >> he has not. >> he has not said a word the entire time. >> running past me. >> you could have made sure you and your dad called the police before you got in the pickup truck. >> i could have, i was under the impression that he called the police. >> you could have continue to drive behind mr. arbery and not speak to him or confront him at all. >> i could have. >> you could have stayed your
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truck until he ran by and driven away and go ahead and follow him, right? >> i could have, yes. >> during your statement to the police, did you say you and your father were trying to arrest mr. arbery, did you? >> in the statement? >> yes, to the police. >> no, ma'am. >> you never said to mr. arbery that you are under arrest. >> i did not. >> you never did tell mr. arbery, you are under arrest for the crime of -- fill in the blank. >> i didn't have time. >> let's talk about your attitude towards vigilantism. >> do you recall having a relationship with lacey allison?
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>> did you remember telling her about how she felt that you need to make examples out of someone if they steal stuff, that's right, i hope you catch the vermon. >> that's right. >> do you remember telling her that your old friend is the same as hers which is crazy, old as dirt and does not care to go to jail. >> i don't think i wrote that. >> does it refresh your recollection about what you agree with miss cox? >> she said you had a lot of trouble with thieves. you responded, that's what this
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world needs more of, my old man is the same way. >> i did say that, yes, ma'am. >> the next line is you said hell, it getting that way. >> i did say that. >> wow. i love her. >> if we were just starting law school. this next fall i think would probably shown that cross-examination. that's example of how to line things up. >> she eviscerated him. that's a technical term. she dismantled his claim of citizen arrest and self-defense. he never told police of anything citizen arrest, something he came up afternoon wards. arbery did not have a weapon and he was not caught of stealing anything. this prosecutor laid bare his defenses and it left the impression with reason why they chased him and ambushed him was
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he was jogging while black. that was a brilliant cross-examination. >> let's bring in david henderson. reverend al sharpton. rev will be with you in a second. david, unbelievable cross-examination, tell us what your thoughts are how she laid it all out. >> in terms of the cross-examination, i don't think she could have done a better job. she eviscerated him. she got him saying a number of ridiculous things. trying to have a conversation with ahmad, everything you are saying is true. why not just follow him until police aarrived. i worked on case where is people did exactly that.
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>> they knew he would be eviscerated. he was on the stand because he had to be. the most important part of this case right now is happening today and no one will charge it is the charging conference. as bad as it was, it went as well for the defense as it possibly could because it prevented anyone else from having to testify. if you watch this trial and i know reverend al has to agree with me, it kept attorney golf on his feet. >> david, just looking at this, i know it's impossible to get inside the minds of jurors, if you are the prosecution, how are you feeling today? >> if i am the prosecution, i am not resting today. here is a reason why. a senior lawyer told me this when i first started practicing law. if law is all you understand, you are never going to be as any
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good as a trial lawyer. if you look historically, jurors following the law, emit stills would have been convicted and "to kill a mockingbird" would have been a different ending. they want to try this case in their community. that's what you have to contend with on monday going into closing arguments. they think the jury will nullify him. >> speaking of "to kill a mockingbird," at the end when tom was convicted, atticus was surprised, he made him think. with that said, are you surprise
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as i am that the rittenhouse jury has said out as long as i thought. i thought this is going to be a six-hour meeting with the jurors and they get some pizzas, straighten their ties and come out and find him not guilty? >> not surprised at all. i will tell you why. you are trying to do two things in closing arguments, it's not arguing, you are trying to equip the jurors who is are on your side no matter how bad your case may be going. at least one person is on your side. you are trying to equip them to go back into that deliberation room and argue for you. the second thing you are doing is trying to instruct them. they give him 36 pages of jury instruction and they are a beast to try to figure out. for example, if you think of what the jury did.
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just the first six pages that's best self-defense. they got to the first six pages and they realized self-defense is discussed and the language is different every time. i have practiced going through it to figure how to explain it to people and explaining it to other lawyers and even they got confused and the judge got confused in the courtroom. it's not surprising to me they tried to work through this charge. they have not asked the judge to clarify the law for that. they're trying to figure it out for themselves. >> david, let me ask you about their requests to see the video again. what does it tell you? >> i think the prosecution is the issue of provocation was rittenhouse's initial aggressor.
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you have to be doing something unlawful act. what was his unlawful act? well, it's not showing up at the car lot. it's not being dropped off. it's not lying about being a manic. it would be pointing the gun at this guy. that's the unlawful act. the question is did he do that and what did the video show? that's why the jury wanted to see those images again. >> what was the problem of the enhanced images? >> this judge not proficient with technology and the defense lawyer are taking advantage of that. they managed to convince him that zoom distorts videos and so
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he took away the jurors' ability to zoom in on some videos. that could be a difference between conviction or a hung jury or acquittal. >> reverend al, you were in georgia yesterday with a lot of, it must have been horrifying for r the defense with a lot of black preachers who he's been keeping away from the courthouse. talk about that meeting you put together and what you saw at the trial yesterday. >> well, last wednesday when i visited the trial at the invitation of the mother and father, that's when this defense attorney got up and made this address that i should not be allowed to be there that my presence would intimidate or influence the jury. i came out and said that well, i
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will be back with 100 black pastors. yesterday, we had about 300 black pastors and they surrounded in front of the courthouse and the parents came out. how do you determine who the victim's family want to sit and consul them. you must remember this mother and father is sitting in the courtroom feet away from the three men that's killing their son. they are going through an excruciating experience. i am not just there as a leader of a civil rights group, i am there as a minister. they come to savannah, georgia, three weeks ago. for me trying to attack that as
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intimidating is almost like what the defendant is saying ahmaud on that path was just intimidating because he was black and jogging. now my presence even though he knows i am a minister and he knows i have been involved in the case could somehow be intimidating? how? the irony of this, you are a lawyer as if if i was there as a civil rights leader and i am there, we have the right to do that, police packed courtrooms when police are accused. it would be nothing wrong when we are in there as civil rights leaders. we are there as ministers at the invitation of the family. when he started that, pastors came all over the country. the black church felt attacked. he didn't say ministers, he says enough of these black pastors. i want you to rule no black
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pastors could come which is racial and insensitive. here is a mother and a father sitting day after day and looking at the killer of their son. that's very painful. none of us would want to go through that. that's why all of us showed up in brunswick yesterday. it was a devastating testimony. we had to stand up for what we do and that's console people in the hours of need. >> the courtroom is coming back with 300 more pastors. let me ask yo david about putting travis mcmichael on the stand. he's the only three to be called. why do you think they did that? do you think they are regretting it now after watching wa we just
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watched? >> i don't think they regret it. he was very well-prepared to take the stand as much as a prosecutor cut into him, that could have been far worse. they sat down with all three and realize he's our best option. you have to raise some evidence of self-defense even if it's bad to shift the burden to prosecution to have to disprover disprove that. they knew he had to get on the stand and explain himself. when this story first broke and journalists went down to report it. people in the commune agreed what happened to the trial. so again they put him on the stand claiming to that. i don't think the defense feels
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like they fail in their choice to do that. >> jean, sort of your neck of the woods. >> not that far. i am curious of what your thoughts are in 2021 about what you were just seeing and what your thoughts are about this jury. if it's a cop, i am not going to second guess a cop, that's safety and security of our community. this case, you got three guys that are just running around being vigilantes. >> exactly. the guy's just jogging in the neighborhood and killed him. it would be an interesting task to see if this is 2021 or 1921
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in brunswick, georgia, right now and what? because if the jury acquits, it will be in spite of the laws and facts and they'll nullify and i think it's clearly the defenses is playing it and given what the defense, the tactics so far, you know either they are really stupid or they know that community better than observers from the outside do. they are doing it deliberately. they want the reserve to bring 300 black preachers to town as a way to getting the jury on their side.
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>> attack reverend al, talking about kentucky chicken and white masks. >> you do ask what year this is or decade. >> that's a defense attorney playing to the lowest common denominator. i am curious what your thoughts are, talking to the family and the community, are you hopeful there will be justice here? >> i am hopeful that and the family is hopeful. they are guarded. you have 11-1 white to black jury in a town that's 55% black. clearly the defense is trying to play the race and clearly they're hoping this is 1921. we'll see. that's all the more reason we had to go yesterday, martin luther king the third and others joining us. supposed if we didn't go and this family was sitting there with no support and with no one on their side.
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i thought we had civil rights groups. we had an obligation to go and they had an obligation to do justice. i hope both the sides will rise to the occasion. >> when they are sitting in that courtroom, feet away from the people, they gun down and kill their son and they're looking at a jury in a town that's 55% black and there is only one black juror out of 12. i am going to watch somebody else sitting next to me that levels out the imbalance in that courtroom. >> reverend al sharpton, thank you. and dave erringberg. thank you. >> coming up.
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john kennedy seems to suggest one of biden's nominee is -- >> what he says that echoes just as mccarthy's red scar tactic from the 1950s. we'll be joined pie shawn patrick maloney is here. one hour before democrats will vote on the party's bill build back better bill act. house minority leader kevin mccarthy ensures that vote will happen in the bright light of day. >> plus, president biden's domestic policy council director, susan rice joins us. "morning joe" is coming right back. s. "morning joe" is coming right back ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how
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house republicans will always fight for you, fight for your family and fight for our country. with that, madame speaker, i yield back. >> welcome back to "morning joe." that was your kevin mccarthy sleep machine along with joe and me, eight hours. >> if you are having trouble sleeping. >> the sun is rising by the way. you see the capitol. i thought shawn it was very, very polite. very kind of kevin to time this in a way that it didn't pass the middle of the light that nobody saw it but passing into the morning. >> patrick maloney. >> just sprucing our guests.
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>> susan page. very kind for him to do this. all of america is awake. >> that's right, on the list of people i dreamt to spend the night with, kevin mccarthy. >> hilarious. >> that was funny. >> top three. >> i thought that was funny. >> i feel better the morning after. >> the sun is shining. >> it's "morning joe." >> the guy does not slope. sleep. we have been talking about last hour of democrats.
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>> we passed legislations to make your roads better and broad band faster and make your airport better and make your water cleaner and healthcare cost less expensive, to give you universal pre-k. that moves voters. >> not just 10 or 12 things joe. but 10 or 12 things that polled really well. the passage of this legislation, the polling showing over and over that the component of this bill are enormously popular. it's likely to become law within the near term future. democrats have a very clear job
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in front of them. >> it's going to be on them. they have not been able to sell americans on the notion that they're doing a good job and the economy is in good shape. it's going to be, the ball's on the tee. are they going to knock it into the left field bleachers or they are going to knock it into the durable sea? >>. >> this is remarkable. >> you look at what republicans are doing now. they basically said we are going to be doing nothing and congress, we are doing everything we can to stop
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democrats. >> looking ahead, this is what we are doing for you and not looking to the past. this is a point that senator hoyer made of the last democrat we heard on the floor before mccarthy took over talking about we are trying to do something. republicans trying to stop everything. you can agree or disagree with every position. some republicans were smart enough like mitch mcconnell is going back to kentucky. hell yeah, i voted for it and look what it's doing for ya. >> don't you think that was why he voted for it? >> ochk the test for democrats now does this bill look good
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when the provision start to kick in. does inflation get under control? if inflation gets worse and people are more concerned of the economy, this could be a problem for democrats because republicans are spending all this money and fuelling inflation. those things are things that americans will see in their own lives that's being helpful to them. >> there is been a lot of debate. how do you use this to hold onto to majority next year? >> good results are good politics. there is been a lot of talk why we didn't sell the drive, i want
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to sell the touchdown. we moved the chains last night. we were in the end zone on the most important lessons. >> we could have moved in a straight line. >> what we did is deliver historic results for the american people. what you just said matters. i want the president of the united states and every car factory in america, i don't care if they only do car factories, i love him. getting out of this town and talk about what people are beginning to get out of
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democrats getting things done. we are going to tell people about it. >> willie, not only do sean like the fact that joe biden was up in michigan and driving trucks around, there were a lot of congressmen and women who were fighting for their lives in those states that needed to come in their districts. >> there is no question about that. it gets to the question of let's go to the hill and whatever sausage that makes in the senate that it gets passed. there is a concern about inflation and the price of ming sort of sneered to that idea.
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people are paying more on things and concerns of injecting additional money to this economy. this administration should hit it with everything they got. he was talking about the infrastructure bill. this week is a way to lower long-term costs, better ports and roads and cheaper energy because they are using less of it. lets look at cost in the build back better bill. much cheaper prescription drugs for our seniors and cheaper child care. how about cheaper cost helping an elderly parent stay-at-home? we got to get the price of gases down and we need to get this economy going again and the pandemic in the rear-view
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mirror, no arguments to me. >> also, i will put the hay down where the goat is needed. we have not experienced inflation since the clash and blondie put out their first album. >> i love blondie. we have seen the impact of it at the voting booth. >> you know, joe, having been that long since we had inflation is a major political factor of
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our lives. >> you put the hey where the goats can eat it. what can i say? >> anybody out there telling people to not believe in their own eyes and what they see when they go to the pump and not believe what they see at the super market and not believe these prices are rising, it's like best political suicide trying to convince voters that the things they see with their own eyes are not true. we live in a political culture that's driven by amnesia and i am not taking shots at our younger colleagues. it's a long time and you and i
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were in high school there was a political campaign where inflation was a dominant factor. there is two generations of reporters who cover these stuff who knows inflation matters. the emotional impact like that inflation is and i think this is true in political science around the world is the most damaging political fact for any incumbent administration, any western democracy and non western democracy. you go back over the last 100 years, run away inflation, the fear is when inflation gets out of control and voters perceive that to be the case, administration is running that everywhere. it's a thing that you are not worried about it and if you get
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out of control will destroy your political fortune. anyone who's not paying attention on this is asking for a shalacking. you can't talk about it enough because it's on the mind of every constituent. >> you have seen nothing takes down government faster than run away inflation. again, for people watching, get your paper bag out, i don't think it's run away inflation.
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>> i lived four years in argentina, run away inflation there -- i can take my elevator down to the office and you can go to money exchange shops and you can watch the exchange rate changed minutes to minutes as the pixel or whatever it was called at that time, the currency, the lost value and you know inflation went crazy. >> so what we call run away inflation here is not what they call it in some other parts of the world. nonetheless, i remember inflation is as huge problem here. interest rates are unimaginable.
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interest rates are low and all the children are happy and everything. believe me, you let inflation get much higher than, you know, that last figure we saw. then you are in a whole different world. >> right. >> politically it's poison. it's deadly poison for whoever that's in power. >> what should the administration and congress should be doing in the short term to deal with inflation? >> i would like to see daily
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updates. >> that's a huge win for this president and i think we all agree it's not argentina and i think before we get too caught up in the kind of parade of horribles that the future could hold, personally after eight hours and 32 minutes of kevin mccarthy's i would like everyone to take five minutes to celebrate -- we are passing out the house a bill that's historic and lower family costs. we are talking about child care and keeping parents at home instead -- >> rob portman says this bill as well as the infrastructure bill is antiinflation.
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>> there is two columns here. one is to lower cost, that's critical but also to increase wa wages and earnings of families. >> talk about the biden administration, infrastructure passes and it's going to pass in the house most likely the next hour or so. if nancy is putting it on the floor, it's going to pass it. >> do you think they're going to continue to push those kitchen table issues that matters so much? >> they were a little slow to move about inflation and supply chain issues and they're trying to correct that now.
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and with the holiday looming that for a lot of americans that's a concern. there is a problem to get presents under the tree and quite frankly to get trees. >> and santas at the mall. >> they don't want to take their eyes off. they do believe, they suggest this will be something that passes sometimes next year and sometimes at the midterm. they know there is potential for some real political peril here. >> a senate bank committee hearing turned tense yesterday. >> i don't know if they turned tense or stupid? >> they clashed at biden's pick
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for top pick. she was born in kazakhstan when it was part of the soviet union and moved to the united states in 1991. she became an american citizen in 2005. over the years testified numerous times as an expert witness on financial regulation. she also works as a policy adviser during the george w. bush administration. yesterday republicans senator john kennedy of louisiana appeared to suggest that she may have communist sympathies because of her upbringing. take a look. >> you used to be a member of a group called the young communist, didn't you? >> senator, are you referring to my membership in the youth
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communist organization while i was growing up in the soviet union. >> i want to ask you that question. >> senator, i was born and grew up in the soviet union. >> are you with a member of it? >> everybody in that country is a member of -- >> you were a member? >> that was a part of normal progress in school. >> have you resigned? >> from the youth? >> from the young communist. >> you grow out of it with age automatically. >> did i send them a letter of resigning though? >> senator, this was many, many years ago as far as i remember how the soviet union works at certain age you automatically stop being. >> could you look at your record to see if you can find the comment? >> i don't mean any disrespect.
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i don't know whether to call you professor or comrade. >> senator, i am not a communist. i do not subscribe to that ideology. i could not choose where i was born. i do not remember joining any facebook group that subscribes to that ideology. i would not knowingly join any such group. there is no record of me actually participating in any communist discussions of any kind. my family suffered under the communist regime. i grew up without knowing half of my family. my grandmother herself escaped death twice under the communist regime. this is what's serious in my mind. that's who i am. i remember that history, i came to this country, i am proud to be an american.
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this is why i am here today, senator, i am here today because i am ready for public service. >> a few things. you may look at that and think that senator kennedy is stupid. no, he's not, he knew exactly what he's doing. he went to oxford. people that went to oxford tried to play as dumb as anybody. that was cynical and hateful of a spectacle attacking somebody because they were born in a totalitarian regime, one of the most evil regimes in the history of this planet and they're attacking somebody for having the horrible misfortune of being born under that regime and being being -- he's trying to use that against somebody who came over here. you could have said the same
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thing about -- the greatest dissidence in the history of the soviet union who went through the same thing because they endoctrinate children. here you have a united states senator who's trying to attack a woman because her par parents h the unfortunate to being born in the regime. >> and a woman who chose to live and moved here and look at what she's done and now wanting to serve. >> have we seen an attack like that since mccarthy? >> this was sick. it was really hard to watch.
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>> we have seen a lot of ugly. >> that was really -- that was really ugly. >> really, again this is a woman who didn't choose as she said where he was born. i am sure gary castroll also when through this type of youth group. that's what happens when you grow up in a totaltarian regime. they torture people and to think she escaped that and willingly comes to the united states and serve. >> and becoming a united states' citizen.
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>> i am sorry, it's beyond despicable. >> it's despicable and you can see the senator knew what he was doing and you can see she was dumbfounded. we do not have a choice in the soviet union party to join. here i am waiting to be confirmed. and he asked serious questions about her record. i know a lot of republicans think she's antibank. should be the right person overseeing the bank, that was truly gross. >> the democratic senator sherry brown took on republicans and what conservative media have been saying about the nominee. >> just a week after news of nomination became public, the wall street journal ran an op-ed more accurately, they highlighted she went to moscow state university and she
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received a scholarship -- they made outlandish claims based on where she grew up. they accused her wanting to accomplish communism. >> they have a formula. start with a passing. mix in words, lennon and communism and end with royalty to her chosen country. that's how republicans turn a qualified woman into a marxist bogey man. now we know what happens when trumpism meets mccarthyism, it's
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a cruelty no person should experience. >> again, the attacks go against the very people, that we should be the proudest of. the people that left toltarian regime. >> we thank them for coming to america. >> right. these people in the traditional vision of republicanism as you know, joe, as you went back to the cold warrior republicanism of ronald reagan, those are the kind of people that you rattle off, the people that brought
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down the soviet union which this woman was from. they were not respected but revered and idlized, they were considered the greatest allies and the fight against communism of those kinds of dissidences who were desperate to get out and desperate to stand as a alternative, people committed to the reform to the end of the soviet union and the reform of the communism. these were people republicans used to venerate. you had republicans who put people like insults on a pedestal at the time. i will say his performance was incredibly impressive. she was an object of grace and composure and restraint as she
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was attacked in this vicious, vile totally unfounded way. it's extraordinary she managed to keep her composure there. the thing i like about these things most, i say like with sarcasm, i mean with no disrespect but i am not sure if i should call you joe or comrade. >> and this is actually things that's kind of a perfect way to end this segment, i was talking about contrast. politics i learned early on. it's all about contrast. you have democrats that are making roads, bridges and highways and broad band and water better and cleaner and faster or safer. you had republicans turning hearing into circuses and talking about attacking people
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that escaped the soviet union. you have republicans that are putting out violent imagery that depicts the killing of other members, the house of representatives and you have democrats working like hell alone without the help of one single republican voting to expand pre-k for working americans and moms and dads. they make healthcare costs less expensive to make insulin for my son who's a type one diabetic more reasonable and more reasonaby priced and along the lean of everybody else pays. stop the gauching of big pharma. violent imagery verses lower healthcare costs and f future
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-- >> it's a big contrast. >> in the house you see kevin mccarthism and good on her for having the dignity and to endure that. no americans have to. senator kennedy was not a dumb man but man, stupid as he is. he should have it hung around his neck. >> patrick maloney, thank you. >> in a few minutes the house is expected to vote on the build back better bill. joining us now is director susan
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rice, it's good to have you, susan. i think joe just sold the bill here on the set. >> not trying to but talk about some of the things that build back better bill does. >> good morning, the build back better bill legislation which the house will pass today is going to lower cost for american families, it's going to create jobs in important industries such as clean energy, it's going to provide tax cuts for middle and working class americans. it's going to help us tackle the climate crisis and increase our global competitiveness. reducing child care costs, many american family pays as much as $15,000 child per year for their child care. this legislation will cut child care costs for half for most
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american families and make sure they are not paying more than 7% of their income for child care. you spoke about prescription drugs. this legislation will ensure seniors don't pay as much as they are now. $6,000 a year for their prescription drugs. that'll be capped at $2,000 a year for your sons and others that are relying on insulin. insulin is ridiculously expensive. some people pay as much as a thousand dollars a month for their insulin. the child tax credit as we call it will be extended. that means if you are a family, a working middle class family, you will receive $300 per month
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for every child under the age of 6 and $250 a month for every child 6 to 17. that's real tax break for working middle class family. this legislation is historic, it's comprehensive as you pointed out. universal pre-k helping us to expand our education and making us competitive. there is so much in here and i have not touched on all of it that'll be transformational. we are looking forward to the house passage and onto the senate. >> good morning, susan. this will get through the house we expect perhaps the hour and it swings over to the senate where it pairs down a little bit. as you talk to senators, some of those democrats who have been on defense and seeing some changes before they vote yes on this. what have those conversations been like? what may not make it through
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once it goes through the senate? >> well, let's get it out of the house and we'll go back to the nate where as you know we have had extensive consultations and negotiations and engagements with senators of all parts of the party from the most progressives to the most moderate and when the president put forward a few weeks ago, his framework package which he says he was confident could pass the senate, it contains the element that we believe were most viable and so there will be negotiations. there will be certainly be something that may be restruck restructured or paired down. the healthcare, child care, housing provision, i am hopeful that we'll be able to sustain paid family and medical leaves. these things are critically
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important for the american people and we are committing to getting as much of it through the senate as we possibly can. i think it will be a robust package on the other end. >> good morning susan. it's jonathan lemire. so much of the president's agenda is tied in with concerns of inflation and supply chain issues. some pointing to the president's impending domination, walk us through right now what the white house is trying to get our arms around this. what else can be done here in these next weeks as americans prepare for the holiday season. what can be done to combat inflation and some of the supply chain issues that's worrying everyday americans as they try to put food on their table and gas in their cars.
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i think you know what we are experiencing with inflation which is real is in fact a global phenomenon. the united states is facing its challenges, europe has higher inflation than it had in 13 years in canada. it's our economy that has come back most robustly among our competitors around the world. the only one gotten back to prepandemic levels. that said, there is a need to reduce costs and we are working as you mentioned on the supply chain, we are working on reducing gasoline prices but the most important thing as we have been discussing that we can do will have a real impact on the finances of americans is to pass the build back better bill legislation and enacted into law. that's where healthcare costs
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will be reduced and prescription drug costs and child care costs and education costs and housing costs and all of those are critical elements of this legislation. you bring those costs down and that obviously is beneficial to the bottom line of the american family. you provide a tax cut for middle and working class americans through the child tax credit and you ask the wealthiest corporations and family it is pay their fair share and not to evade taxes. making sure that no families earning less than $400,000 a year sees one penny more in their taxes. that's by the build back better bill legislation is so impactful and so urgent. >> ambassador rice, is there any chance that this victory lap is
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premature. we expect the build back better bill get through the house with the most delicate act. the senate is sure to change it in some ways and the senate will pass the revised version that'll come back to the house. do you feel totally confident that the final version is going to reach president biden's desk. >> you did not hear me say mission accomplished, we are confident this will pass the house and go forward to the senate. if you are asking me am i confident that at the end of the day a robust package will passed by the house. the answer is yes. we have work to do and we don't take anything for granted. i have been in the mixed as we have worked through these challenges and negotiations over the last several weeks.
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on monday the president signed into law a bipartisan infrastructure piece of legislation that we have been waiting for years to be able to do. said it could not be done. no way you can bring democrats and republicans together and make the transformative investments in our rails and roads and bridges and airport and broad band and our clean water. joe biden got it done. now we have an equally important and impactful set of investments that'll transform the lives of american family and making child care and pre-k available for everybody in an affordable way and first time generation home buyers to have the support they need to have an affordable home.
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>> this is an extraordinary important piece of legislation. they'll enhance our -- i am confident when all this is said and done, the president will be signing not just one but two critical pieces of legislation. >> director of the white house's domestic policy council, sue an rice, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," bob woodward and acosta joining us on the table. the leaders of c-pack have a big issue with such mystery characters like elmo and burt and ernie but apparently not
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with an anti-democratic dictator. as we go to break, the always, shape shifting sir john kennedy. >> i am talking about the cosmopolitan -- >> i am a democrat, i support senator kerry. a democrat, i sup senator kerry. ♪ feel stuck and need a loan? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪
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vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one. congress, let's get this done.
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46 past the hour. the fda approves pfizer and moderna boosters for all adults. >> they make a huge difference. >> i mean i don't know if y'all are -- >> got boosted. >> it knocked me down a little bit but that one really did. >> a lot of antibodies. >> your antibodies shoot up dramatically and you are back to that 95% to 96%. >> the reason we got them was
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because nobody wanted them and our doctor had extra. >> yeah, this is a while ago. i think more people are doing it now. >> they're widely available and you have to make appointment at cvs or local walgreens. >> i was at dallas this weekend, you can get shots moderna or pfizer or free testing. you just show up. our crew member can go to this gate and get a shot. >> the with numbers slowly but surely moving up and you are getting boosters out there and children and these pills that pfizer's pills. it's so important for americans who are waiting for the end of this to come. getting to a point where infection may go up but the serious incidents that occur are
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going to go down. this is going to become very manageable and livable. the big light was this was no worst than the flu. >> that was a huge light. now we got to the point where if you get a vaccine, actually you are better off if you get covid than you get the flu. if you don't have a lot of underlying symptoms. vaccinated americans are fighting off covid pretty well. so it's a manageable. the pills will make it more manageable. that's so important for policy makers. infections are going up. we must shut everything down. >> the vaccinations are gone up. >> that's the problem with europe right now. >> that's the issue. every time something has gone wrong is that it ends up at the
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shore. austria announced a national lockdown and germany is considering the same. there may be one burst in the winter months as people are indoors and they gather for the again, a burst centered on those who are unvaccinated. as long as the vaccination rate is up, people getting the shots, getting their boosters, it should prevent the serious illness and death. >> and the higher the vaccination rate, the lower the boost, the lower the peak of the wave of infections. >> and let me just say we should not shut this country down for the unvaccinated. if they want to be safe, get vaccinated. we should not shut this country down for the unvaccinated. they have the choice to make. they can make it. the rest of us that have acted responsibly, you know, we should be able to live our lives. it's just like people who smoke cigarettes. i know it's bad for you, but if you want to smoke cigarettes.
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>> go outside and smoke them. >> but i shouldn't have to pay for your health insurance. >> and i shouldn't have to pay that in. >> you should have to pay more. the same thing for covid. a hard turn here, willie, and talk about the a.l. mvp, owe oh unanimous. no one has inspired him more, great on the mound and great at the plate. jack and all of his friends love ohtani. >> we haven't seen it since babe ruth, shohei ohtani won it unanimously. he was the runaway winner. the angels star hit 46 home runs this year, and he pitches. oh, and by the way, sometimes he plays right field when he's not pitching as well. mike trout, his great teammate, said it's like being back in little league again where you watch a guy throw seven shutout innings, hit a home run and go
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play right field. that's not supposed to happen at this level of baseball. we're seeing something unlike we've ever seen before. also a magnetic star, great for baseball, plays in the los angeles area. a unanimous win for ohtani. and bryce harper, of the philadelphia phillies, won his second mvp award. a small handful of players in baseball history to ever win two mvp awards before the age of 30. he had a huge season in philly as well. >> and, willie, let's just say it right now, we just talked about the yankees and the red sox, and we've avoided one of the most extraordinary franchises over the past several years, and i'm not talking about houston who has great players, but tampa. unbelievable what that organization does with so little. and kevin cash, can you think of a guy who has ever deserved to be manager of the year more than that guy two years in a row? >> yeah, he won it again the other day. and we've talked about it. we talked about it during the playoffs.
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the rays have no money to spend. they're down near the bottom on the list of payroll in major league baseball. they have a terrible stadium at the trop. no offense to the people down there. they don't have a huge fan base. they find ways to win, come up with unconventional systems of starting the game with their bullpen and working through a couple of innings. without a payroll like any of these big teams have to get superstar players whenever they want them just continue to find ways to win. the rays won the division beating the yankees and the red sox as well. so kevin cash one of the great managers in baseball, and doing it with not a lot which makes him, to me, clearly deserving of that honor. >> they asked him, can you name the 65, 66 pitchers you used this year. it was insanity. he just laughed. he's done so much with so little.
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>> and they do it without a lot of money. the rookie of the year, tampa bay rays. they call up, bring up young talent, develop young talent. the national league manager of the year was gabe kapler from the san francisco giants. 107 wins. some years ago, he's a friend of a friend, he co-owned a team in my fantasy baseball league, that team finished well under .500. he couldn't hack it on my fantasy league but he can do it in the national league west. we are moments away from the final house vote on a major piece of president biden's agenda. the build back better act. we'll go live to capitol hill. plus, "the washington post" bob woodward and robert costa join the table. "morning joe" is back in just a moment.
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look at that beautiful shot of the capitol, and this morning big news.
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will be happening from that building right there. >> that billing has endured a lot over the last 240 years. the past six months and last night endured 8 1/2 hours of kevin mccarthy. >> oh, my lord, talking about chinese generals. let's bring in garrett haake. maybe he can clear it up. you've made your way from "morning joe" headquarters, beautiful 400 north cap street, over to the capitol. what's going on over there? >> reporter: i crossed path with a few bleary-eyed lawmakers making their way back into the building for this vote. folks here fairly late before they realized there would be no vote, only more mccarthy overnight. the house floor is set to open any minute now and we'll hear from speaker pelosi. she intends to close out debate for the democrats, entitled to
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the same magic one-minute speech mccarthy got here. she could try to retake her record for the longest speech ever but i don't think that's the case. they have a chance to do it now in the full light of day, close things out and get back on planes. we've only heard from one democrat who will vote against this bill. they can afford three. we may see more timing delays but looks like the bill will pass this chamber this morning. >> they're going to have to have a couple votes. what are you thinking perhaps in the next hour? >> at least a motion to recommit, a procedural vote. republicans might try to motion to adjourn to slow this down. it's possible they have the procedural hijinks and slow down tactics out of their systems last night. they have families to get home to. you know the jet fumes get pretty strong the weekend before thanksgiving. >> when we were there and wanted to raise hell and cause newt gingrich problems three days
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before easter break we would shut down the house, vote down a rule, do something. the leverage skyrocketed at that point. just for people that have been watching this through the months, watching negotiations forever in the halls, what ended up making the difference? how did they get to this point? >> i think there was trust on the house side and the moderates on the senate side. there was a meeting a couple weeks ago that has not been reported of what went down. major players here behind the scenes. and this framework being endorsed by the president, i think, made a big difference, too. the more recalcitrant members were able to say, look, we'll put our trust on president biden for this, leave it for him to deliver and wash their hands of it. frankly, on the house side, they got tired of holding this hot potato. it became harder and harder to stomach holding on to this bill
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that much longer. and now they will. >> thank you so much, garrett. greatly appreciate it, and, jonathan, before we bring in bob woodward and robert costa, let's talk about that relationship between biden and manchin. it's a good relationship. biden was at $2 trillion. he couldn't move, and manchin at $1.5 trillion. couldn't move. they got together, shook hands, okay, we'll split the difference, $1.75 trillion and there's real trust. >> they were colleagues for a long time in the senate. there have been flare-ups along the way. there was a contentious moment when biden needed his support to get things done. there has been frustration with senators manchin and sinema. at the end of the day there is a trust between the two of them and they were able to find common ground. that said, there's a long way to
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go with support on this reconciliation package. democrats have not quite delivered yet. >> this is the president who has experience, decades of experience, working side-by-side with a lot of these people and we haven't seen that in a long time. >> pulitzer prize winning editor of "the washington post" bob woodward and political reporter for "the washington post" bob costa. "new york times" reporter and msnbc security analyst michael schmidt the author of "donald trump v. the united states." >> wow. >> there's so much about steve bannon, the ongoing investigation, but you were just neck deep in following trump. you wrote books on trump. you reported on him every day. let's talk about -- because biden has been knocked around a lot. his numbers have gone down a lot. let's talk about the difference between things actually getting done.
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we're about to get the house to pass the second really significant piece of legislation. >> exactly right. jonathan brought up the earlier passed legislation, the $1.9 trillion, significant social spending program, biden has done it again with the infrastructure package. the question is for the democrats, can they sell it and can they keep democrats like senator manchin along on this next component, the build back better. biden has made a decision as president to move in a more progressive direction, and he had that -- january 6 was a crossroads for his presidency not just because of the insurrection but because on that day it became clear the democrats would have the senate majority. and when he saw that as the long time senator, as the two-term vice president, that was an opportunity to really use power to bring the democrats together on some of the major spending. but there could be a political cause. for now he's moving full speed ahead.
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>> let's talk about january 6, bob, let's talk about the investigation and focus on steve bannon. he's been in the news this week. we've known steve -- i've known him for a long time, actually. somebody who would say whatever he could say to get in the news. >> mr. chaos. the master of chaos. >> said i'm a lennonist. i want to tear government down. have we moved from him being a gadfly to being guilty of sedition or just look to go raise hell? >> as discussed earlier there's reporting to be done and it isn't reported out, i think, to our satisfaction at all. there's a lot of mystery in this. we found in our book that bannon is the instigator on a week before january 6 bannon is in his townhouse on the phone with
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trump almost kind of directing trump and saying you've got to come back. you've got to get pants off the f-ing ski slopes this is a day of reckoning. and really trump, and you know this, trump gave up the new year's eve party to come back to washington -- >> trump doesn't like giving up parties. >> i've been down there with trump at mar-a-lago, and he just loves it. he goes into the room, people stand up. they applaud. they bow. and to give up new year's eve, i mean, wow, that's a big-time sacrifice and the sacrifice for what? and that really needs to be filled in and as we report -- i mean, bannon is saying we are going to literally strangle the
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biden presidency in the crib. what's going on there? is that just politics, or is that january 6th a big event, a coordination involving thousands, 1,000 people, who can ever get three people to do the same thing at the same time. >> and, bob, what he says on his podcast about january 6, that all hell is going to break loose -- i don't know the exact words -- >> he predicts it. >> a lot of stuff will happen after they said they needed to strangle the biden presidency in the crib and talked about the chaos, telling people all hell is going to break loose on january the 6th. again is that a political gadfly, somebody just trying to get attention? >> we're in a new serious phase about how those statements and those comments behind the scenes will be interpreted.
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it's become clear merrick garland has opened a grand jury investigation, and that grand jury led to bannon getting this criminal indictment for defying a congressional subpoena. bob and i have been talking about where could this grand jury be going? and no one knows grand juries more than woodward and bernstein following watergate. they have subpoena power and operate in secrecy. we don't have a window into where this is going and what we're wondering is if you look at williard howard taft from a century ago there is a crime in the u.s. code about defrauding the united states and if you defraud by deceit or trickery that is a federal crime and really established that in the 20th century. building a criminal conspiracy case against bannon and others for conspiring against the united states and the peaceful
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transfer of power. >> for the attorney general to say we're not just going to file a criminal information against bannon but set up a grand jury and if you look at the history of grand juries, they can be very independent when the attorney general says, okay, here is a group of citizens and i remember back in the nixon case it was the grand jury that pressured to name nixon as an unindicted co-conspirator. you're relinquishing some of your power when you set up a grand jury. that in itself is a big, significant maneuver and you see what garland said publicly, his statement on the bannon indictment. he essentially said i'm all in. we're going to get to the bottom of it. >> they talked about defrauding
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the government and the precedent there for a crime. if you look at the federal statute for conspiracy to commit sedition, it's sort of, i mean, all four corners of bannon's activities fit in to that statute. everything he's doing is intended to stop a constitutional process or a legislative process from moving forward. trying to stop one of those processes by your actions, which is exactly what bannon said they were doing, then you're part of a conspiracy to commit sedition. >> what we sometimes lose sight of, they could be tied to his -- certainly, motivationally, he was in a different position at that point. he had been indicted in 2020 and he was looking for a partner. he had been out of trump's orbit
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throughout the entire presidency. he was looking to reingratiate himself with the president. he wanted that pardon. he rallied around the president and said and did the things he knew he would want him to do and that pawn on the battlefield and he does get that pardon before trump leaves office in the final hours of the trump presidency. at the time bannon did this trump was able to use his own power as president in ways trump cannot do now. we see trump's power in bannon today.
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>> including scenes from inside. >> the scoop of the century. i probably should have got ann hotel room so i could hang around. we'll leave that alone. january 5th i knew based on reporting, starting to get into this transition this was a gathering place for the oath keepers, and inside you had giuliani, john eastman, steve bannon, and what we didn't know for months is that trump's calling in, trump's calling in to the war room and that's the scene cited in the subpoena. it's clear the january 6th
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committee picks up on that. if they're trying to paint a picture of coordination or even possible conspiracy there would have to be exchanges and there are between trump and giuliani, trump and bannon. this goes late in the night. the use of power, the possible abuse of power, this willard war room with eastman, with bannon, saying to trump late at night along with jason miller, we're now going to speak for pence, saying pence is fully in lock step with us to not certify the election, and this is stunning to the pence people near midnight on january 5th. the president is turning publicly against his own vice president and starting to mouth words for the vice president even though pence doesn't believe what trump is saying. >> the important element here is the language is we want to block biden. we want to stop biden.
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and that is reflected in the subpoena itself, that language of block. the question is, also, is it illegal to try to block the certification of the person who is the president? >> also false information. the eastman memo say that go night there are alternate electors -- >> and they don't exist. >> it is illegal to block action. >> that's sedition. >> that's in the statute. >> that's in the statute if you're working with other people to do that, to stop official government action that is the definition of a conspiracy to commit sedition. >> and there's a logic to it. january 6th, the certification is the only act by the federal government, by the congress to say joe biden's president, not donald trump.
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it's that simple. this is the moment that counts and, of course, they very conspiratorially in their way realize that had is the button we have to push. >> so, michael schmidt, i'm curious, we're talking about the statute and also eastman and bob just brought up eastman and his memo trying to put together an argument to stop the certification of the vote and he actually lies in that memo to a government official, to the vice president. about an alternative set of electors. is this a guy -- i'm asking this question. i feel like a leading question because it seems so obvious he and donald trump and steve
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bannon and other people around there are engaged in a conspiracy to commit sedition. i'm only going off the clear, unambiguous language in that u.s. statute. >> i think this will all come down to whether merrick garland really wants to go out and do this and make this case and whether there's another pressure on the justice department to do that. i find it hard to believe the justice department would do anything until after the january 6th committee is done. and whether it pushes prosecutors to have to move forward with this. at least publicly and some are reporting this department does not look like it wants to get
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involved in prosecuting the former president of the united states. something may be going on here that we don't know about. at least what we know publicly is that there is the january 6th investigation in terms of looking at trump's conduct and those around him and that's all that's being done. maybe if the january 6th committee moves the ball and develops something new that changes it. but for now that's where i think it is. >> as you're trying to connect the pieces, what you have connected a lot of dots, the meeting at the willard, the war room at the willard to cause this to happen, bannon saying we have to strangle the biden presidency in the crib before it gets moving. what else needs to be connected to prove this conspiracy? >> one thing i would chime in
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about is garland, to mike's point, is moving. we don't know everything he's doing. since 1983 there hasn't been a congressional subpoena. this is dramatic to move forward with the bannon indictment. when you talk to lawmakers on the hill they feel heartened by this because garland is backing up the house committee as it pursues its work. who else was trump calling on the night of january 5th? this will come down to the question of executive privilege and could end up in the supreme court. that's why so many trump people whether it's mark meadows or steve bannon are not cooperating because they believe there's a chance conservatives may be able to move them and save trump from really revealing what they were doing and who they were speaking to. >> bob, if you look, though, at the u.s. v. nixon case in the
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supreme court coming down unanimously 8-0, talking about the possibility of committing a crime there is no executive privilege here. i find it extraordinarily hard to believe there are enough justices who said all of the nonsense about the conspiracy theories, we want no part of this. even alito and thomas, the most conservative said, no, no, no. this is rubbish. we should look at the pennsylvania case not because it's going to change the outcome but the question may arise in the future. the federal judge held the line. why wouldn't they? >> but, see, people from the nixon tapes case was a decision unanimous by the supreme court. >> right. >> saying that nixon had to turn over his tapes to the prosecutor. they lost their case. and in the opinion, again,
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unanimous, which is very important. it says directly without ambiguity that there is presumptive executive privilege. it has to give way. and that's why the grand jury that merrick garland has set up is so powerful because he has relinquished some authority. i mean, grand juries, these are people on the grand jury who are giving up their regular work or lives to sit around and say -- and they can get pretty inspired and say let's get to the bottom of this. they have that authority. i think the january 6th committee is doing a great job of subpoenaing and talking to dozens and dozens of people. you have to find that satellite witness who is sitting at home saying i know a lot. are they going to call me?
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should i voluntarily come forward? these are called the satellite witnesses. and, you know, maybe they'll find one. >> they found a few in watergate. if you look at the language of the nixon case, the supreme court wasn't as expansive on executive -- yes, if it says to do with military issues, with diplomatic issues but it's not expansive. there is a question whether a crime was committed. if the supreme court follows precedent then they're not going to let donald trump and steve bannon and all of these other people who were trying to, quote, strangle the biden presidency they're not going to let them revert the clear
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meaning to expand. >> i don't think they want any part of overturning the 8-0 nixon v. u.s. precedent. what bob is saying is fascinating. just to clarify, you're saying that you believe it's more likely that the grand jury will ultimately get this information and this testimony about trump that it wants than the january 6th commission. >> they're ultimately going to have the authority. this is a world in which information counts and robert and i were able to work on this book for nine months. the standard was, are we finding witnesses -- firsthand witnesses or participants? a grand jury can do that.
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the january 6th committee and they're going to converge and somebody -- because there are big questions out there. we are booked to a certain extent to answer the question of why. why? because bannon is out there stirring the pot. he's not passive at all. and then the question is what don't we know? and that is the quest. >> so bannon -- i talked about him being a gadfly, but in this case he's at the center of that war room, right? he's at the center of this conspiracy, if that's, in fact, what it ends up being defined as, that trump is communicating with. is that a yes? it's a leading question, forgive me. i just want to make sure he was more than a gadfly, he was at the center of that. >> because john eastman is on his podcast. john eastman is with him at the
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willard, coming up with the plan for pence. john eastman is in the oval. bannon, schmidt said, is in this gray zone wanting to pardon -- not sure if he will get -- he's not in the oval but bannon's ally is. one important point about it's not just bannon, it's trump. one thing we kept finding in our reporting for the book it's trump driving this. watching tv, that's like the an iceberg, he was driving it with bannon, with giuliani and pence trying to pressure pence, pressure lawmakers on capitol hill. bannon is part of the story but not the story. the story is the president was driving this to defy biden, to block biden from taking power. at the end of the day, if this is a conspiracy it's trump at the top not bannon. >> we need to go to break, but i want to ask you, bob, and michael smith and you, john
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lemire because of your knowledge of this in the white house at the end of the day the question is i understand joe biden wants to get along with everybody. i understand merrick garland doesn't want to be going after political opponents. will the justice department have the courage to follow the law? >> well, they have set in motion the quest for more and more information from firsthand witnesses and participants. but the lingering question is intent. what was trump's intent? what was bannon's intent? did they really want -- >> what about when he says we have to strangle the biden presidency in the crib? >> that's not nice. that's potentially illegal. but the issue of intent, did they really think that they could certify donald trump? no. i think there's going to be evidence that will come out that
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shows the goal was just to prevent biden. and this is where you get to this statute that says, be wait a minute, that's a crime. you can't step in and put your hammer down on a process which is in the constitution. >> you certainly can't conspire, michael schmidt, to stop that process from moving forward if you read, again, the very clear language of the statute. the question is from your reading will the garland justice department have the courage to read the statute, read the law and follow the law and prosecute those who broke the law? >> i think -- look, i don't know. i think that what's become clear about the january 6th investigation compared to the constituent department is the justice department has far better tools and abilities to do this investigation than congress. congress is on a political timetable. they want to get this done by a
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certain period of time. whenever a federal investigation begins at the justice department their only clock is the statute of limitations. they will work on things for years. they will move up the ladder. they have guns and subpoenas and badges that have more respect than what congress has. the justice department is truly the one that has the tools, abilities and powers to do this in ways that congress does not. now congress does have some authority here, but ultimately they want to be done by late spring, midsummer next year for the midterms because they want their candidates back running and they're afraid of losing power and not being able to complete their investigation. and to do a true investigation you need to spend an enormous amount of time, energy and resources and ending it in late spring, early summer probably won't get you there.
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>> so weird having this conversation as we have pictures and then the live look at our democracy in process on the right of our screen. one last item before we get in a quick break, the conservative political action conference is joining republican senator ted cruz of texas in having a problem with the muppets on "sesame street. "after cruz started a twitter fight with big bird after the muppet promoted covid vaccine cpac announced elmo, bert and ernie are not invited to their annual gathering next year. >> tough break. >> taking the high road. >> the chairman of the american conservative union took it a step further when he attacked the show for introducing a new korean american character. he wrote in a statement, quote, "sesame street" needs to go back to a time when a show was devoted to a letter in the alphabet and not the latest woke
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fad. if pbs and npr want to be in the arms of the socialist -- >> are korean americans -- >> while elmo is not welcome they are planning a vern of its cpac in budapest. hungary led by the far right authoritarian leader who has called muslims invaders and imposed policies hostile to lgbtq people and immigrants and repeatedly muzzled his country -- >> put tracking devices on reporters and political opponents but they're worried about bert and ernie. we'll be following the house vote playing out every step of the way. "morning joe" is back in a moment. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes
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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." it is 8:33 at the united states capitol where the house of representatives just a few minutes now will vote, we believe, to pass the build back better act and kick it over to the senate before they head out of town for the thanksgiving recess. over to senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. where are we in the process? >> reporter: we're in the middle of the last procedural vote before the final vote. they are slowly trickling in to cast their votes. a lot of late nights for members and about a quarter of the house, it looks like, has gone home for the holidays. they are voting for proxy, a process that can slow down the already kind of tedious voting process in the house. we heard from speaker pelosi closing out debate. she joked that as a courtesy to her colleagues she would be brief this morning and, indeed, she was. going through the big priorities of this bill, the things she believes democrats will
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accomplish by passing it and opening up the voting that has been grueling for democrats appears to be over for now with this bill about to become the senate democrats' problem. >> making reference to kevin mccarthy's 8:32 speech. 5:10 a.m. washington time this morning. any mystery at all whether this will pass or do they have the votes? >> reporter: it doesn't look that way. the one that will vote no is from maine and has been signaling he would vote no for quite some time. the other moderates likely to hold out we've heard positive things from stephanie murphy and a handful of others. there may be one, perhaps two more no votes. pelosi can afford those. all systems are go right now. >> let's assume, garrett, this vote goes through the house in just a few minutes from now, kicks over to the senate, what's a preview of coming attractions?
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how long will that process take? what role will joe manchin, kyrsten sinema, will it make it through the senate? >> reporter: well, chuck schumer said he would like a role before christmas. always take the over when it comes to those timed guidelines here. this will still be a process on the senate side. joe manchin played his cards out in the open. he has some concerns about the overall price tag. he's been negative about the paid family leave provision in this which is something he might have to strike on his own because the other moderate, kyrsten sinema has had things to say. she was there for the signing of the infrastructure bill, which means to me the white house thought she was sewn up but she gave an interview overnight and said what the house is passing today has some differences from what she's agreed to with the president and she doesn't
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elaborate on what those are. she has been very quiet about her concerns during this process. there's clearly still work that's going to have to be done on the senate side and, willie, i think it could bleed into next year. it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that happening here. >> yeah, if the pace we've been watching is any indication it will bleed into next year. garrett, stay with us, if you can. we'll fit in a quick break and come back on the other side with majority whip james clyburn of south carolina. we'll be right back. ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪
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♪ ♪ xfinity rewards are our way of thanking you just for being with us. enjoy rewards like getting illumination's minions movie on us. xfinity mobile benefits. exclusive experiences, like the chance to win tickets to see watch what happens live. andy cohen: hey! it's me! and tasty recipes from bravo's top chef cheftestants that'll have you cooking like a pro. the longer you've been with us... the more rewards you can get. join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks. your rewards. ♪♪ joining us now the third ranking democrat in the house of representatives, majority whip jim clyburn of south carolina. it's great to have you with us.
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i know you have to run in and cast a vote, but we do want to ask you a couple of questions here starting with the vote right now. do you have any reason to doubt this will pass in just a few minutes here? >> well, first of all, thank you very much for having me. i think we'll be fine. the motion to recommit is what's being voted on at the moment. i cast my vote before coming to this camera and, of course, as you know i voted no and i think we'll get -- we will prevail. >> so, congressman, what is in this bill that you will go home now on this thanksgiving break and talk to your constituents about in your district in south carolina? what are the top lines you think people ought to know about what you're about to vote for? >> well, i think a lot of things if you look at health care we've had 2.5 million people without health care. we are talking every day about people going back to work. how do you ask a 35-year-old
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mother with two children to go back to work and do not provide for daycare for her children? and so she needs help with daycare, she needs help care for herself. and so we take care of that in this bill. affordable housing. we know how much equity has been lost in home ownership. we know what the wealth gap is and affordable housing is big with the wealth gap. we put money, the money is here for affordable housing, for millions of people really across this country. and if you just think about what it is that families need in order to stay afloat, it's in this bill. covid-19 exposed a lot of faults in our system, in our health
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care system. this bill helps to repair some of those faults, and so i think the american people know that the country is in a place that it has not been in 100 years, not since the spanish flu have we had this kind of a pandemic upon the country and what we're trying to do now is help people rebuild their lives. you don't do that just by fixing roads and bridges. we need the roads and bridges fixed, but we also need people's health care restored, housing built and we need people to feel better about themselves and their families. and it's all wrapped up in this legislation. >> congressman, our senior capitol hill correspondent is not far from you. >> reporter: good morning. you know this is not the last vote you're going to take on
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this bill. you will have to deal with it again when the senate sends it back and it will look different. what do you need from the white house to help make sure you keep every democrat onboard with a bill that could look significantly different the next time it passes through your chamber? >> well, i expect for it to look different. i know how this place works. the senate has different ideas about this. in fact, one of the big sticking points in the bill for some of our people in the house is the state and local tax. senator menendez and others have been working on what they consider to be a better way to do it and they may have a better way. they may have a better way in the senate. i expect as time moves on the
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senate -- i mean, the cbo scores will get analyzed and the senate will look at what we've done whether or not anything violates and needs to be scrubbed. all of that will get done. it will look different when it comes back. just because it's different doesn't mean it's not good or even better. >> congressman, your fellow south carolinian gene robinson has a question. gene? >> congressman, good to see you. >> thank you. >> when you're down for thanksgiving, down in santee or wherever, what do you think your constituents are going to want to talk to you about? are they going to -- i'm sure they'll engage in your conversation about all the things that are in build back better. do you think that perhaps they're going to want to talk about inflation and prices and if they do what are you going to
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tell them in terms of the short term especially when they go to the gas pump, when they go to the grocery store? >> thank you very much for that. yes, if you know where santee is located. i will be spending the thanksgiving holidays there. but i will talk to people about the problems we have and the fact this is to be expected. a lot of people say it's transitory. i hope it is. but we really have to get people restored to a good place, get these communities 9,000 homes and building out 1,000% broad band. this bill will make sure every single home is, in fact, connected to the internet.
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many of those children lost a year of school. one way on a three-legged school, the infrastructure bill the second and the rescue act being another. i talked to the governor and he said what we did here every home in the state of north carolina will be connected to the internet because they have used money from the rescue act, from the c.a.r.e.s. act and now they expect around $100 million out of this and every home in south carolina will be built out. i want people to think about the future and what we can do for their families, for their communities to make their lives better. >> house majority whip jim cli bern, we appreciate you stepping oumt of the chamber briefly to speak with us. congressman, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you very much.
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still ahead on "morning joe," the defense rests in its case in the trial of the men accused of murdering ahmaud arbery but not before the defendant who fired the shot was cross-examined on the witness stand. plus, this morning americans are one step closer to becoming eligible for booster shots of both pfizer and moderna's covid vaccines. some breaking news there and, of course, keeping a very close eye on that vote in the house of representatives on the build back better legislation. "morning joe" is coming right back. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this. call unitedhealthcare today for your free decision guide. ♪
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>> didn't pull out any guns. >> no, ma'am. >> in the final day of testimony, prosecutors spent hours challenging mcdaniel's claim that ahmaud arbery, attacked him. >> didn't pull out a knife. >> no, ma'am. >> never reached for anything, did he? >> no. >> he just ran. >> yes, he was just running. >> mcmichael insisting he and his codefendants had been trying to detain arbery until police arrived, suspecting he had been involved in an up tick in crime in an neighborhood on edge. mcmichael testifying he feared arbery would come at him and his father greg mcmichael next. >> he was acting weird. he was acting funny when i was trying to talk to him prior. i'm on alert. >> the prosecution pushed back. >> so you're telling this jury that a man who has spent five minutes running away from you, you're now thinking is somehow going to want to continue to
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engage with you, someone with a shotgun, and your father, a man who's just said stop or blow your head off by trying to get in their truck? >> that's what it shows, yes, ma'am. >> reporter: outside the courtroom, hundreds gathered to support arbery's family, including numerous black pastors. >> i'm thankful for this family. >> reporter: in response to a defense attorney's request to restrict the number of ministers arbery's family can invite to court, singling out two men. >> authorized to exclude reverend sharpton and reverend jackson without a hearing. >> the judge refused the request to the relief of arbery's family. >> i want to say thank you to all the pastors who traveled near and far to come and just to be with us in this very very difficult time. >> ron allen reporting from brunswick, georgia for us. ron, thank you. millions of americans are a
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step closer to having access to added protection against the coronavirus heading into the new year. minutes ago, the food and drug administration opened up covid-19 booster shots to all adults, pfizer and moderna announced the decision after ten states already had started offering boosters to all adults. now the centers for disease control and prevention must agree to expand boosters and that debate is set to begin later today. good news for people looking for a booster in their home state. that does it for us this morning. we'll be right back here on monday with you. chris janson picks up the coverage and a watch of the vote on capitol hill after a quick final break. of the vote on capitol hill after a quick final break.
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