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tv   Katy Tur Reports  MSNBC  November 18, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PST

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"meet the press daily." msnbc coverage continues with my friend katy tur right now. good to be with you, i'm katy tur. as we come on the air, high drama in courtrooms from brunswick, georgia to new york city. in new york city, two of the men convicted for killing malcolm x are expected to be exonerated. and in brunswick, georgia, the defense rolled the dice by putting the man who shot and killed ahmaud arbery on the stand. will it pay off? today it was the prosecution's turn to cross-examine travis mcmichael. the prosecutor took travis mcmichael step by step through the events leading up to, during, and after he shot arbery three times. remember, arbery was not armed.
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joining me are nbc reporter catie beck. we also have a policy adviser for joe biden on criminal justice. catie, this is the second day when travis mcmichael was on stand and he was cross-examined. bring us up to speed on what the prosecutor was able to get out of mcmichael. >> katy, this is the most explosive testimony we've seen in the trial so far. under cross-examination, prosecutors clearly wanted to hammer some points to the jury. and they did that through a series of yes and no questions put before travis mcmichael. they asked him preempted if he felt like ahmaud arbery was a threat, what proof he had that he was a threat, did he pose any threat with a weapon, was there a knife or gun.
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mcmichael several times confronted arbery with questions and arbery said nothing and kept running. they were getting to the jury to this point of, could you have possibly walked away, could you have stayed in your vehicle? the answer to that was yes, i could have. so these were questions that they came prepared knowing that travis mcmichael would have to give a yes-or-no answer to and have to define his level of fear at that time. they reiterated several times that he was unarmed and several times that he wanted to get away. they actually said to him at one point, was it possible you could have just trailed behind him and actually never exited your vehicle? he said yes. so these were things that were heard before the jury. here is one exchange that was on the stand, again, in those moments leading up to the shooting. >> so you want this jury to believe it's mr. arberyggressor
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truck, not that the back truck is trying to run you off the road to help you? >> i didn't see the truck trying to run him off the road. i saw the vehicle looked to be at a stop and mr. arbery was engaged with the vehicle. >> you're telling this jury that a man who has spent five minutes running away from you, you're now thinking is somehow going to want to continue to engage with you, someone with a shotgun, and your father, a man who has just said stop or i'll blow your [ bleep ] head off, by trying to get in their truck? >> that's what it shows, yes, ma'am. >> travis mcmichael is off the stand for now, katy, but he could be recalled before the end of this trial. the defense says they have several more witnesses to go. whether they'll call the other two defendants is unknown at this time. >> when do we expect to get an idea whether they'll call the other two men standing trial?
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will we find out the day of or is there a process in place for us to be alerted? >> i think as far as i can tell, katy, it's going to be a game time decision. we won't have a lot of warning. the defense said yesterday they had a dozen witnesses or so. we've been through some of them today and some of them have moved rather quickly. one was a neighbor who was posing on a facebook group about safety and talking about how she had heard of the burglaries, didn't know the mcmichaels, sort of big testimony. certainly the most explosive changes we've seen so far have been with travis mcmichael. how that will impact the other two and their decision to testify, is yet to be seen. >> a fascinating and risky decision by the defense to put him on the stand. jamillah, hold on for us, we're following news out of washington where joe biden has been meeting with the prime minister justin trudeau of canada. let's listen in on their meeting. >> -- half a dozen times almost,
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so far. >> it's been busy. >> i know we're both keeping our minds close to the families affected by the storms flooding the british columbia area and the pacific northwest. one of the things we've spent time on is climate change, we spent a lot of time dealing with that. and we are on the same page as to the need for us to move on it and get the rest of the world to move. and since our first meeting back in february, we've met in venues around the world, getting covid-19 under control, trying to do it in the next pandemic, be prepared for it, as well as meeting infrastructure needs across the developing world. we see an opportunity not only to enhance the prospects of a better life for people around the world but we can do it by a world build back better effort. we can provide for the health needs as well.
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we're contributing a significant amount of vaccines, no strings attached. we also think we should be building back in a more significant, more environmentally friendly way. we're meeting the infrastructure needs, as i said. we're driving an inclusive economic recovery together as two nations and meeting the climate crisis, standing up for democratic values. and so we spend a lot of time at the g7, the g20, the cop26, and i think we both think we're at our best when opportunity, equity, and justice all coincide, and the core values of canadians and the united states. this is one of the easiest relationships we could have as an american president, one of the best. >> thank you, mr. president. thank you, joe. it's been a busy year.
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it is a pleasure to be back here in washington with you. but as you say, we have had the virtual bilat, we've had many encounters at all sort of international fora where we've been strongly aligned on environment, on fighting covid, and getting through this pandemic, preparing for future challenges. but also on building back better, recovering our economies in ways that work for the middle class, people working hard to join it in a way that is inclusive and fair. and we've got a lot of work to continue to do. the easy work is done here at home. the hard work around the world, making sure we're bringing people along. and that's something that we're always great partners on. [ speaking foreign language ] >> i'm really looking forward to
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this. >> reporter: mr. president, can i ask you a question about your tax incentives for electric vehicles that will be assembled in the united states? the canadian government says that would be a violation of the new trade agreement we just signed. are you going to consider an embargo for canada given the fact that our industries are so integrated? >> we're going to talk about that to some extent. [ inaudible question ] >> i say we're going to talk about that. it hasn't even passed yet through the house. we're about to see that move. and we don't know what will happen in the senate. but there's a lot of complicating factors. >> reporter: [ inaudible ] the beijing olympics? >> something we're considering. [ inaudible question ] >> the answer is i don't know. i don't know what we'll be dealing with quite frankly when
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it comes out in legislation. we'll talk about it then. >> listen, it's hard to hear a lot of what is said there with the microphones and given that everybody is talking over each other, but peter alexander asked what i think is a pretty interesting question about the olympics in beijing, asking if there would be a diplomatic boycott. president biden said it's something we're considering. just to be clear, diplomatic boycott would not mean american athletes would not compete, they would still be allowed to go, it's mostly a symbolic show to say we're concerned about human rights. this is a bilat between president biden and justin trudeau. there is another bilat today with president biden and the mexico president. this is the first time they've met in five years or this meeting has happened in five years because of the pandemic
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and the tensions with donald trump, and these two countries' leaders. let us go back now to the ahmaud arbery case and what we've been coming there. jamillah, the prosecution tried to pick through travis mcmichael's testimony, tried to pick through what the defense was presenting, that he was trained in law enforcement, and he was just acting responsibly. >> yes. i think what's important, though, are not asking ultimate questions. so what we saw with the cross-examine, it pulled out all the facts, he wasn't armed, he was trying to engage, he was running away. what we know the defense is, is that there was fear, that there was this assumption that he had done something wrong. and what is clear about that and why so many people in the country are watching this case is because we understand that
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the reason they felt that fear, the reason there was an assumption of dangerousness that he had done something wrong had everything to do with the fact that he was a back man out for a run. and of course by asking all the questions, all the things about him, that he didn't have a weapon, not even trying to engage, running away, helps the jury to be able to draw the conclusion that so many people understand in watching this case, that he would be alive but for the fact that he was a black man out for a run in that neighborhood. >> so when catie beck says that travis mcmichael could be recalled to the stand, jamila, what does that mean, who could recall him and what would that look like? >> it sounds like the defense -- first, we have to be clear, there's no -- the defense does not have a burden. they don't have to put on any case. the burden will always rest with the prosecution. but they've chosen to put on a case. and it sounds like -- it's unclear exactly what the
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strategy is. they've named the number of witnesses, there may be some additional witnesses. but i think there's still a little lack of clarity on what the case will be. it may be that they want to see what additional evidence comes out. but likely if he's being recalled, it will be by the defense. >> interesting. we're going to keep following this case to find out who else they will call to the stand and whether or not it will be the other co-defendants at some point. catie beck, thank you for being with us. jamila, stick around, we're following breaking news from oklahoma where the governor spared the life of a high profile death row inmate, julius jones, hours before his scheduled 4:00 p.m. execution. governor kevin stitt granted clemency to jones, reducing his sentence from death to life in prison without the possibility of parole. jones has been on death row for 20 years now for the 1999 murder of an oklahoma city businessman, a crime he has maintained he did not commit.
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his case garnered national attention in part because of a documentary and more recently because of celebrities like kim kardashian calling for his life to be spared. 6 million people signed an online petition asking the governor to commute jones' death sentence. also today, in a courtroom in manhattan, we are awaiting a decision that is expected to change the course of u.s. history. two of the three men convicted in the killing of civil rights icon malcolm x are expected to be fully exonerated decades later. one of those men has since died. the other is now 83. both men were released from prison in the 1980s and always maintained their innocence in the shooting death of malcolm x at the audubon ballroom in harlem on february 21, 1965. the third man convicted said the other two had nothing to do with it and there was never any physical evidence that linked them to the scene. joining me now is the president and ceo of the national urban league marc morial and back with
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me is jamila hodge, executive director of equal justice usa. marc, thank you for joining us. this is such an interesting case, even though it's happening so much later than the crime was committed. we're now learning that there was evidence withheld at the time. what do you make of this happening today, these two sentences being exonerated? >> this is a case of prosecutorial and law enforcement misconduct, of being, if you will, revealed and affirmed over 50 years later. this is a case of two men who were convicted without any physical evidence, two men who were convicted notwithstanding the fact that there was evidence indicating that they were not responsible for this crime, including the testimony of talmadge or thomas hayden, who
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admitted or said these two men had nothing to do with it. but here is the point, katy. i don't think this is the end of the story because thomas hagen said there were two other people involved. and i think what the district attorney, the step that the manhattan d.a. should take, is to reexamine the entire case to see if we can determine, because there has been a question for many years of whether there was any official involvement in the death of malcolm x. so years later, thanks to the hard work of documentarians, lawyers who dug and worked hard, this is an important step in this case but this cannot be the end. >> it's certainly frustrating, this happened in 1965. it is 2021, and only after the national attention, the documentary, is this now being -- was this now reconsidered and were these two sentences vacated.
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we talk about this being a change in the course of u.s. history. that's a really big statement, marc. talk to me, explain the significance of exonerating these two men. >> i think the significance is that at the time of the death of malcolm x, at the time of his murder in the audubon ballroom, there were suggestions and suspicions that somehow the united states government, new york law enforcement, and others, including people high up in the nation of islam, were involved in his death. now we see once again, and this is what's important, once again, another case from this era is demonstrated to have been unfair. men have been convicted, back men have been convicted unfairly. my question, when this happens, is how many other cases of
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nameless and faceless individuals are out there? because the innocence project's work has overturned numerous cases and it is an indication once again at the problematic, racist nature of the american criminal justice system historically. and this is an important day. but this cannot be the end of the discussion about who killed malcolm x. >> you know, i'm so happy you brought that up because i was wondering the same thing when this happened, how many others who aren't getting the national attention, who aren't famous, who aren't having netflix documentaries made about them, you know, in the case of the man who was commuted today, having kim kardashian get behind him, how many others are serving sentences in prison for crimes that they did not commit? i know there are a number of organizations out there looking into this, jami. should this be a more systemic
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effort to go through the rolls here and try and figure out who is behind bars unfairly so that it's not incumbent on these outside organizations to do all the heavy lifting? you can't possibly get to all of them. >> right, and i think it can't be lost, katy, that this happened on the very day that we almost had another horrific tragedy, that but for governor stitt just deciding it sounds like moments ago to honor the recommendation, and it wasn't the full recommendation, because the parole board recommended life with the possibility of parole sentence. that's not what he instituted, it's life without a possibility of parole. but for what just happened a few minutes ago, julius jones would have been executed in just a few hours, in another case where race has played an outsized role, where there are serious questions, not just about whether or not the prosecution met its high standard of beyond a reasonable doubt but serious questions of his innocence. we know that there have been
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nearly 200 people exonerated from death row. so the problem is so deep and wide. and i think we have to step back and understand why. and i think part of what drives this and why we do need a much larger review and understanding of how this continues to happen, because it continues to happen, is when we step back and understand how we define justice in this country and what we do is our system has become, when something bad happens, it is everyone's, police, prosecutor's, sole goal to figure out who did it and how we punish them for it. we can't remove that from the context of race when we know racial oppression is at the root of our system. there is an assumption of dangerousness and an assumption of guilt with suspects of black skin. it's easy to overlook glaring red flags in who you think did it so they can get the
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punishment. we have to agree on what justice means so it incorporates things like healing, accountability, and really gets us to safety. >> jami, marc morial, guys, thank you so much. what a significant day. i'm so happy we're talking about how there are so many others likely behind bars unfairly because they did not commit the crime they were accused and then convicted of. i appreciate your time today. >> katy, i'll say one last thing, we need continued advocacy. we need district attorneys who set up conviction integrity units. we need pressure from civil rights advocates. we need the innocence project. we need lawyers. we need documentarians. we need a full-out push to identify these cases and bring light and transparency to find truth. i think that is what this message is all about, both in the case of julius jones, the case of malcolm x.
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it was advocacy and public pressure and hard work by lawyers in new york, with the d.a. who was receptive to these arguments, that yielded the steps that we are talking about today. >> you know, that d.a. is speaking right now in a new york city courtroom. this is cy vance. let's listen in for one moment. >> -- traffic afternoon at the audubon ballroom. every police investigator and trial attorney on this case has died. in a case that rested entirely on testimony, every single person involved in the trial has died. all the physical evidence including the shotgun use income the murder is gone. there is no way to get them back. but what we have obtained in
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this reinvestigation now are numerous materials that our office tragically did not have in 1965 and thus did not turn over to defense. most critically, we have obtained dozens and dozens of reports of the fbi and the nypd's bureau for special services and investigations. these records include fbi reports of witnesses who failed to identify mr. islam and who implicated other subjects and suspects and significantly, we now have reports revealing that on orders from director j. edgar hoover himself, the fbi elected in multiple incidents not to tell police or prosecutors that they were in fact fbi informants. many of those documents were exculpatory. none of them were disclosed to the defense. without these files, it is clear that he did not receive a fair trial. the convictions must be vacated. moreover, under the unique
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circumstances presented by a 56-year-old case, there can be no retrial on any of the charges contained in them. therefore, your honor, the people move that the indictments should be dismissed. on behalf of the people of the state of new york, we jointly move to vacate these convictions on the grounds of newly-discovered evidence and the failure to disclose exculpatory evidence at trial and to dismiss indictment number 871 of 1965. thank you. >> thank you. counsel, anything from you? >> yes, your honor. i'm honored to stand here today with my client. today, the application we make jointly with the district attorney, as you just heard,
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they move to vacate their convictions under section 44010-1-g based on newly discovered evidence. as a procedural matter, my client respectfully requests that the records be sealed pursuant to section 160-50, that the sealing be stayed for five days so as not to interfere with the significant media coverage taking place. in 1965, mohammed and khalil were innocent young back men who were arrested within weeks of the murder of malcolm x and falsely accused of participating in that terrible crime. these men became victims of the same racism and injustice that were the antithesis of all that malcolm x stood for. before, during, and after the trial, nypd and fbi had a tremendous amount of evidence of their innocence, hiding it from the district attorney.
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as a result, when a witness testified under oath that he and four confederates killed malcolm x and mr. aziz and mr. islam had nothing to do with it, the fbi and nypd sat on a trove of evidence. the defendant, their lawyers, the court, the prosecution, and the public at large were deceived and cheated. mr. aziz and mr. islam were wrongfully convicted and most of the men who murdered malcolm x never faced justice. >> so you're hearing barry sheck, co-director of the innocence project. mohammed aziz is the man you see, he's in the courtroom, he's 83 years old. he is now exonerated for the killing of malcolm x.
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the other man that was exonerated, khalil islam, died in 2009. both of these men spent 20 years in prison for this crime that they did not commit. just to be clear, i misspoke, barry sheck is not the one speaking now, he is at the end of the table. cy vance coming out apologizing to the city of new york, apologizing to these two men for putting them behind bars unfairly, putting them behind bars wrongly and keeping them there, living most of their lives, in the case of khalil islam the rest of his life, under the guise of being a murder when they were not. so a really big deal, changing the course of american history, indeed. coming up next, we're moving towards a vote. democrats say president biden agency signature legislation could make it to the house floor by today. but are progressives okay with
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the millionaire tax cut that's in it? and if you think being stripped of committee assignments has taught congressman paul gosar a lesson, you don't know paul gosar. more on the fresh outrage surrounding his censure. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms.
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debate has begun on the president's flagship legislation, the build back better act. the package could go up for voting in the house as soon as today. after a series of changes and negotiations between moderates and progressives, is the bill still living up to the initial promises made? we are still waiting on the congressional budget office to release their cost estimate on the plan which should be available before the end of the day tomorrow. maybe even today. one new analysis that is available is raising some serious red flags. a public policy group in washington, the committee for responsible federal budget, tallied the cost of each program
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in the build back better bill and increased the deductions cap for state and local taxes is the second most expensive line item in the bill. that's call the s.a.l.t. tax. more than that the paid family and medical leave act and more than the child tax credit extension. that is not all of the joint committee on taxation took a closer look at who stands to benefit from this new expensive s.a.l.t. tax cut and found that two-thirds of people making more than a million dollars would get a break on their tax bill. house speaker nancy pelosi was pressed on that point earlier today by our own garrett haake. >> reporter: can you respond to the criticism that when all is said and done on this bill, the people who get the biggest tax cut are millionaires who can take advantage of the changes in the state and local tax deductions? >> thank you for allowing me to clarify what that is about. that's not about tax cuts for wealthy people. it's about services for
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america's -- the american people. so this isn't about who gets a tax cut. it's about which states get the revenue that they need in order to meet the needs of the people. and that is a fight that i will continue to make. >> reporter: that is still the result, though. that is still the result. >> no, it isn't the result. >> nbc news senior congressional correspondent garrett haake who you just saw there asking that question of speaker pelosi joins me now from capitol hill. garrett, they're debate the build back better plan right now. the cbo has not yet released its budget on it. is there a chance it gets voted on before the cbo releases the numbers? >> reporter: no. we'll see the cbo full score at some point today, that's what the cbo is telling us. they're still also waiting for a privilege scrub, which is a very technical way of saying to make sure everything in this bill comports with senate rules. if it doesn't, they might have to make some technical fixes to it, which is a long way of saying we won't see the vote in
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any big hurry. but everyone i spoke to, including the speaker in that press conference, are trying to get it done today because they want to go home for thanksgiving break. >> pelosi, in answering your question, said this isn't about getting a tax cut, it's about which states get what they need in order to meet the needs of the people. there's some backwards logic there. explain to me what she's trying to say, how is it the states get more money when millionaires are getting a tax break? >> reporter: i think the point she was trying to make, the way the state and local deduction works, it will give money back to people who are paying it in high tax states like california, like new york, where something like owning a home can be many times more expensive than it is in other parts of the country. so the way this relief was designed, which is to roll back a change that was made in the republican tax cut from 2017, it was designed to bring relief primarily to middle class taxpayers in blue states primarily, that have high state tax rates. the result of it, and this is
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what i was pushing on on in that followup, is that the way that they have structured this now, wealthier people will take more advantage just in terms of pure dollar amounts of this tax relief. she's saying, look, wealthy states, blue states have chosen to structure their taxes this way to provide more services. we're trying to allow for both things to happen here. i think it's still pretty likely there is at least an attempt to negotiate the size of this change down so that it's more targeted towards the middle class taxpayers that the change was meant to affect, and that so many essentially new york, new jersey, california millionaires aren't the ones who get the primary tax benefit from this change. >> garrett haake, garrett, thank you so much. joining me now is new jersey democratic congressman tom mal-i malinowsky. tom, i know the repeal of
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s.a.l.t. will be beneficial for people in new york and new jersey, i live in that area and i know how housing prices are in that part of the country, and i know it would benefit you and your district. but how do you talk to the rest of the country as a democrat, as a democrat who said we're repealing the tax cuts for the wealthy from the trump plan, when two-thirds of the people making more than a million dollars, two-thirds of the people that benefit from this, are making more than a million dollars, how do you say to them that no, this is for the middle class? >> can i start with a little history, katy? >> sure. >> so folks should know that from the very first day we had a national income tax, when abe lincoln instituted it in 1861, we had this principle that state and local taxes would be fully deductible. the principle is if the state has already taken your money, the federal government shouldn't be able to tax what was already taken. that was a completely
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noncontroversial principle until the republicans in 2017 took it away. and let's be straight about this. the republicans didn't take away the s.a.l.t. deduction because they wanted to tax the rich. they did it because they wanted to pay for much bigger tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, for corporations. and in a district like mine, it's everybody who owns a home. if you're a teacher married to a firefighter, this costs you 2 or $3,000 in new jersey and new york and california and illinois and massachusetts. and folks understood they were paying for those huge tax cuts for corporations. so that's what we're trying to do. one more thing. you put up a chart from some group suggesting this was going to cost more than other things in the bill. categorically, absolutely, completely false. this costs absolutely zero, because right now, if we do nothing at all, the s.a.l.t. deduction goes back to full
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deductibility after 2025, which means billionaires, millionaires, will get the full benefit, and at huge cost to the federal budget. so what we did was negotiate basically a compromise with progressives, moderates, everybody on board in the house, that says we're going to continue to cap the s.a.l.t. deduction for the next ten years. it's not going to go back to full deductibility, but it's going to be a higher cap that doesn't hurt middle class taxpayers in our districts. the as a result that have is, it costs nothing. so it doesn't take a penny away from the child tax credit or from the climate change provisions or from anything that's important to progressives. so that's really important to understand. >> i understand what you're saying, and i do understand that math there. but instead of keeping that tax credit at a lower rate or limiting it, and i understand your abe lincoln historical reference there -- >> we are limiting it, we will continue to limit it. >> the reality is it will continue to benefit a lot of
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people who make a lot of money and there are a lot of people in the country who do not make that sort of money and they look at those numbers and say, it's great that it's paying for itself but hold on, if you're going to be spending money in the short term, why aren't you spending money on things that are going to affect me every day like my childcare, like my tax credit, like paid parental leave which is wanted by the majority of americans but yet is still so limited in this build back better plan? i understand you've got an issue with some senators. >> right. >> but there are americans who are going to look at this and say, hey, hold on, i get it, i get what you're saying with the math but spend that money elsewhere first where it's really needed and we'll earn it back on the back end. >> so again, if we didn't do this, we would not have a single additional penny for paid leave. we would not have a single additional penny for the child tax credit. in fact after 2025, we would have a lot less money for those priorities because we would go
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back to full 100% deductibility of state and local taxes. so what we've done here is structured an agreement that actually allows us to take care of those middle class taxpayers without taking away from any other progressive priorities. and then here's the point that speaker pelosi was trying to make. the other reason why the republicans did this in 2017 was that they wanted to defund progressive government at the state level. they wanted to punish states like new jersey, california, new york, massachusetts, where we have chosen to pay higher state and local taxes to have good services, good schools, good childcare, good infrastructure, by imposing a double tax on the taxpayers who support those services. republicans were explicit about that. they said, you don't like our s.a.l.t. deduction tax, be like kansas, eliminate your local taxes, eliminate your property
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taxes. so yes, we are trying to provide relief for the taxpayers in my state who actually support those progressive policies and progressive services. and that's good for the progressive agenda. >> congressman tom malinowsky, thank you so much for joining and you say explaining where you stand on this issue, we do appreciate it. and still ahead, a day after entering a not guilty plea on contempt charges, steve bannon was back in court albeit virtually. congressman paul gosar is censured but the punishment does not appear to have done anything to change his mafr. es not appear to have done anyt behavior.hing to change his mafr ♪♪ dad, why didn't you answer your phone? ♪♪ your mother loved this park. ♪♪
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back in washington, steve bannon appeared virtually for his arraignment. donald trump's former chief strategist quietly filed a plea of not guilty to contempt of congress charges on wednesday. bannon faces two misdemeanor charges of contempt of congress, one for refusing to testify, and another for failing to deliver subpoenaed documents relating to the january 6th riot. another hearing has been set for december 7. for the first time in over a decade congress formally censured a member of the house. the vote on the conduct of republican congressman paul gosar of arizona was split almost entirely down party lines. this is just the 24th time in the history of the united states that a member was censured. gosar was reprimanded and stripped of his committee positions. the rare rebuke follows an
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altered anime video tweeted by the congressman depicting him killing democrat alexandria ocasio-cortez and attacking president biden. addressing reporters earlier today, speaker nancy pelosi called gosar's conduct stunning. >> what was sad, particularly sad about it is that it was involving violence against women. it was a source of humor and bragging by members of the other side of the aisle. this is just stunning. for me it was very sad because i was such great respect and love for the institution of the house of representatives. >> it did not seem like any lessons were learned here. minutes after he was censured on the house floor gosar retweeted the video in question. joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. ali, i thought he said his staff did this and when he learned of it he took it down.
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so now he's retweeting it. i saw kevin mccarthy speak to reporters today. did he say anything about the fact that gosar put it right back out there? >> reporter: no. but this also speaks to the larger theme of the republican caucus in the house right now. our colleague garrett haake asked something i thought was really smart during that kevin mccarthy presser where he said that the only time that republicans seem to be rebuked and punished by their own caucus is when they do something against former president donald trump. in this instance, with paul gosar, he effectively threatened to kill a colleague, that's what the censure and stripping of his committees was all about. but in terms of the way that other republicans except for kinzinger and cheney reacted to this, they didn't act like it was a problem. leader kevin mccarthy has his eyes on the potential to become speaker should republicans retake the house. this is the state of his caucus right now.
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even yesterday, during the censure vote, we saw other republicans standing with gosar, technically that's not actually even allowed in the rules, you're supposed to stand in the well of the congress as your censure is read. he had other people standing there with him. they were laughing, joking, patting him on the back. that lends to a feeling of incredulity of democrats who tried to argue that this was a moral reckoning in the congress and for the republican party. but for other republicans, that speaks to the tone and tenor of where the caucus is right now. this is not the kind of thing they're worried about and this is not the kind of thing that the leader is going to rebuke. >> ali, do republicans just think that all of this ugliness is going to go away at some point and they'll be able to rebalance decorum and go back to passing legislation? or are they doubling down on this being the way it is in congress for the rest of time? are they saying, it's okay right now to threaten your colleagues, no big deal, as long as it's not our own party? and if it is our own party, as
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long as it's somebody who's not doing what we want in our own party. >> reporter: right, it's a doubling down on tribalism and partisanship. we saw trump be someone who led that fight, throwing red meat to the base, talking about attacking reporters, regularly demeaning and making evil the democrats, right? this was the whole pitch that he led for his party for an entire term and another presidential campaign. that's the same thing that republicans are still doing now. people who are considered big leaders in the party are continuously throwing that kind of red meat. i don't get the sense that anyone is trying to roll this back. this is just kind of where this is right now. >> ali vitali, thank you so much. good luck out there. we're also following breaking news from the justice department. two iranians have been charged for allegedly helping orchestrate a cyber campaign to intimidate and influence american voters in the 2020 election. joining me now from washington is nbc news national security and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. ken, what was in this
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indictment? >> reporter: you might recall, katy, back in october 2020 democrats in florida began getting emails that appeared to be from the far right group the proud boys, threatening them with violence unless they changed their party affiliation and voted for donald trump. u.s. intelligence officials went public then and branded that an influence campaign. today the justice department unsealed charges against two 20-something iranian hackers in connection with that scheme. the court documents say it was much more extensive than we realized at the time. the doj says those threatening emails went to tens of thousands of florida voters. they also tried to hack into official websites and in one case got in and obtained voting records. they also tried to hack a media company but were unsuccessful. it was all designed, prosecutors say, to divide americans. >> ken dilanian, thank you very
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much. disturbing indeed. up next, how the pandemic is changing the ways employers meet their workers' childcare needs. stay with us. food a m ystery. everything felt like a "no". but then paul went from no to know. with freestyle libre 2, now he knows how food affects his glucose. and he knows when to make different choices. take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstopables in-wash scent now you know. boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. if you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have downy unstopables in-wash scent boosters. at t-mobile for business, unconventional thinking means we see things differently, so you can focus on what matters most. whether it's ensuring food arrives as fresh as when it departs... being first on the scene when every second
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pandemic and it is a trend that is growing. nbc news correspondent morgan radford has more from reserve, louisiana. >> reporter: katy, hundreds of companies are now offering additional child care benefits since the pandemic. but what's interesting is that those employees say those benefits may actually be less of a perk these days and more of a requirement. as a new dad, juan rodriguez knows all about the struggles of balancing work with child care during a pandemic. >> basically shifting throughout the day taking care of muga, one of us, the other working. switch it and switch back again and try to get a little sleep at night. wake up, start all over again. >> reporter: when his utah-based employer recursion pharmaceuticals decided to offer on-site child care he jumped at the chance. >> able to be right next to the building he's in day care. anything ever happened i'm there in one minute. >> reporter: what does this cost
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to have your son here at work with you? >> great. being here providing meals for him. >> reporter: the company provides food for your son? >> yes. a chef on site. it's great. no food planning for the week. >> reporter: i don't know a parent in america who's not going to hear that. their jaw will drop to the floor. juan is actually one of the near 27 million workers who depend on child care and less than 10% of employers offer things like day care subsidies. now as congress debates whether to offer free or subsidized programs, companies are taking matters into their own hands. >> work here, labs here, where's the child care? >> just on the other side. >> reporter: a perk recursion ceo says other companies will need in order to compete. >> what would you say to other ceos who perhaps hesitant or on the fence offering a service like this? >> for those ceo, we'll be able to hire their talent. build a successful incredible
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company in a knowledge economy future you have to take care of your people. this is going to be the norm. >> reporter: more than 200 employers now offer child care services since the pandemic and nearly 100 businesses offer it right on site. like tech company podium just outside of salt lake city. >> started bringing my first here right away. >> reporter: employees lish pasha say having her child at work is a game changer. >> which you look to the future do you think there a world parents lie you sort of won't settle for anything less than this? >> employers really have an opportunity to show that they care about their employee more than just as a worker, but care about their whole family and i think that should just become a standard and a norm across the board. >> reporter: a new standard as parents navigate this new normal. the experts we spoke to said this trend isn't just impacting the knowledge economy or tech workers, but also reaching retailers and manufacturers. but they also said when we spoke to american parents that the gap
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between what's actually needed and what's actually provided is still pretty significant. katy? >> significant indeed. really nice to have my kids closer to me during work hours. that's for all parents. that does it for me. hallie jackson is next. . this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. elderly dementia patients on latuda have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about fever, stiff muscles,
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should be with mexico's president. we think within the hour, maybe. part of a leadup to this afternoon's big summit with the two of them and the canadian prime minister. big issues at play at a key time from covid and immigration to the supply chain to competition with china. over in the house, building behind me, closely watched budget score on president biden's climate and social spending plan should drop sometime this afternoon. it is obviously afternoon right now. at least on the east coast. we're on alert for that. since it's about to set emotion into fast-moving developments with the house ready for a possible vote soon. plus, latest from the two high-profile verdict watch. jury watch, the man who shot ahmaud arbery wraps up his testimony in georgia. and new reporting. instagram apparently now investigated by a handful of states. reporter with that scoop just posted hopping in front of the camera and joins us live in a minute. i'm hallie jackson in washington along with


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