tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 18, 2021 12:00am-1:00am PST
then, why the so-called qanon shaming and the book -- had the book thrown at him and his sentencing hearing today. as rittenhouse deliberations continue, can we talk about this judge for a minute? >> but what did they talk about? optics, nowadays? that's what they call? it that was a bad optic. >> -- job provisions shipping moving out of ports. why there is genuine good news about america's booming economic recovery. when all in, starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris. as article one, section six, of the u.s. constitution immunize members of congress for the things they say on the house or the house and foreign senate. quote.
that's called the speech and debate clause. the founders included this because they recognize how important it is for members of congress to be able to speak freely, especially in arguments, or in the course of legislative affairs and democratic conflicts. speech and debate are at the center of what it means to be a member of congress. it is what they do. sometimes, it gets nasty. not just in the year 2021, not just in our time, founders knew that. things got very, very nasty between them all the time. now, more broadly, outside of those congressional changes, of course we constitutionalist law and we have a distinction between speech, which is rightly protected by the first amendment. then there are all kind of actions which include violent, which are not. there's a middle space between speech and act soon speak and violent and that is speech that hints at violence or foots with it or threatens or insights it. there is a whole complex set of legal questions and
jurisprudence about the nature of that speech. putting that aside, just talking as citizens, i think we can all agree that a civic culture in which prominent mainstream politicians are constantly engaging in that kind of speech, is not a healthy one. a culture where prominent political leaders are talking about political enemies, or sharing cartoon versions of violence against their foes, not great for american democracy. now is the subject of debate on the house floor today. members of house took up the question whether to censor paul gosar showing a photoshop animation of him killing his democratic colleague alexandria ocasio-cortez and attacking president joe biden. during the debate, before that resolution, past ripping gosar as well of his committee assignments, the subject of that anime film that was posted,
alexandria ocasio-cortez stood up to lay out the brought a case of just how dangerous this all its. >> it is a sad day in which a member who leads a political party in the united states of america cannot bring themselves to say that issuing a depiction of murdering a member of congress is wrong. instead, they decide to venture off into a tangent about gas prices, and inflation. white is so hard? what is so hard about saying that this is wrong? our work here matters. our example here matters. there is meaning in our service. as leaders in this country, when we incite violence with
depictions against our colleagues, that trickles down into violence in this country. that is where we must draw the line independent of party, identity, or belief. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez other members also chose to speak. >> i am a victim of violence. i know what it's like. i also was in that gallery, clambering for life, when the shots rang out in the speakers lobby. violence against women in politics is a global phenomenon. a 2016, there was a survey in the union found that 80% of women policy -- parliamentarians have received psychological violent. 44% have received threats of death, rape, beatings, or
abductions. the intent of these online threats against women, is clear. silence them. strip them of their power, and discourage them from running for office. >> congresswoman jackie speier of california is also the sponsor of the resolution of this censure for paul gosar. also sherrilyn ifill congress will join me later. in recent new york times pace, debbie dingell socialist and by men with assault rifles outside of her home last year after she was denounced by tucker carlson on his fox news show. she also showed a portion of a voice mail one of hundreds of threat she showed saying, i hope hope earlier this, year the capitol police backed up with data would i seem to be anecdotally the case that there is been a
107% increase, and doubling in the threats against members year after year, a doubling. of course, threats, people leaving voice mails, showing up inside your house, showing up in the michigan state house as they did last year, quite famously. it is not abstract now it comes in the aftermath of january 6th. the day poll goes larson this saying don't make me come over there with a picture of the mob. that was the day that thousands of riders descended on the capitol both threatening the measures and bikes president mike pence and also engaging in violence against police officers. they brought a news, it displayed on a gallows. the chanted hang mike pence. as a joke, as far as we know. the threat of violence what do you think is the cemented purpose of the gallows outside
of a place? listen to this with the mob stalking nancy pelosi. >> where are you nancy? we are looking for you? nancy. oh, nancy. nancy? >> what do you think they would've done if they found her? what's implied in that, nancy? you think they want to meet her? over the past several years, this threat of violence has seeped into political rhetoric on the right much more broadly. this is one i'm picking essentially, right this menacing state from congressman from florida. who was just angry about social network essentially earlier this year. >> still silicon valley cannot cancel this movement, or this rally, or this congressman. we have a second amendment in
this country, and i think we have an obligation to use it. what does that mean? what's it mean? you have a second amendment. you're gonna shoot twitter? audrey taylor green of georgia, she is part of the course who made all sorts of, threats there was this image that she posted on facebook last. year posing with a big gun, next to pictures of democratic's where she had to lead caption squads worst nightmare. that kind of iconography, the conservative politician with the big gun, that is everywhere. i, mean you can pull a primary republicans and take randoms, and the flirtation would be endorsing political violence would it be extreme among conservative republicans. and it's not good. and my thinking about, that aside from common sense, is informed by a book i read. about the period leading up to the civil war, it's by
historian freeman. it's an incredible book. and she documents this it's called the field of blood. and in, it she tracks how often debates in congress about slavery became heated and then passed heated -- how they past explicit threats, duels, and indian acted. violence the most famous of, course they can, and senator -- wish to play in 1856 after he criticized slave owners. but even before that came, and i missed that, time the specter of violence loomed, the rhetoric of, it and all of that representative, the breakdown in the democratic culture of the nation, as it moved towards a cataclysm of war on behalf of the slivers. we are in a very different place right now. very different place. thankfully. but the lesson there is important, there is every reason in the world to take this stuff seriously and to be alarmed by it.
congresswoman ocasio-cortez is right, it's wrong. it's wrong. we should be concerned about what it means. in terms of safety members of congress, sure, the nature of the modern republican party. what it means is the very help of american democracy at this moment. congresswoman awe jackie speier she introduced today's resolution centering with paul gosar lard. and congresswoman sheila jackson lee, texas'18th congressional district in the u.s. house of representatives. she was co-sponsor of the resolution. congresswoman speier let me just start with. you because we played a clip of you mentioning that she had been a victim of violence. you had witness violence firsthand. and it may be worthwhile just talking about that bad experience and how that informed how you think about the resolution you introduced on the floor of the capitol today. >> thank you chris for having us. on i was shot five times for dead in the jungles of diana, when i was in the --
who was assassinated. because jim jones on is called had chosen to take the action that the. did having said that, there is someone who has been convicted in california for having sent me another of postcard saying they wanted to put a bullet in my. head this is the kind of conduct that we have got to shut down. and this resolution was important because we have to draw a red line in the conduct of members when they are suggesting that they murdered a colleague. so censure was absolutely appropriate in this set of circumstances. congresswoman, jackson-lee, the argument to the extent that there, was i don't think there was much affirmative defensive, but he re-tweeted someone retweeting, it so i don't think he's too torn up about. it but mostly what's the reaction from republicans that are only two republicans that voted in favor of this. congresswoman cheney, and
congresswoman -- saying hey, this was dumb. it was done, he should've done, it was a dumb joke, it's a cartoon. not that big of deal. what do you say to that? why did you vote for the resolution? >> first of all chris thank you for having us, i'm delighted to be here with my very heroic and special colleague, congresswoman sphere. let me be very clear, we live in a violent world. and a violent time. and congresswoman gosar has live in that violent time with his words, he was on stage on january six, one of the most violent moments in american history. he has offered no apologies for his actions and provoking in that day. we started the year violently. this is a time when memories were being attacked by word and, yes, by deeds violently. and this was not a participant
effort. it was not a political effort. it is really lifesaving. because what this congressman was doing was showing and promoting the killing of a member of congress and the assaulting and potential killing of the president of the united states. i thought, enough was enough. that it was important to save a life. because frankly, after 3 million views, he said he took it down. 3 million views. who knows, whose provoked to believe that paul gosar is telling the truth. but not only telling the truth, giving a clear and call to action to kill the member of congress, are members of congress, as of already been indicated, or the president of the united states. i thought it was imperative that we indicate that this is unacceptable behavior for a member of congress. he needed to be censored. >> let me ask you, both how long have you served in congress? >> 13 years. >> and congresswoman
jackson-lee, how long have you sir? >> 26 years. >> okay, so you both have been in congress for, awhile and i want to go to you congressman speier, and then you jackson-lee, because it does seem to me that there is a question of what is the background condition in what has changed. and, you know, i think that probably as long as there have been voice mail and, mail you've got a nasty, voicemails you've gotten nasty emails, and i've often said on the show, being brewed to an elected member is kind of a god given right as an american. it's part of a free society. and that's how it should be, honestly, in a democracy. but, threats are govern in a different category. and have you seen both of you in your time, is it worse now? do you personally feel and see an uptake in that kind of communication. in that kind of the threats that go side was convicted of. >> no question about it. it's a combination of donald trump's presidency, and the use of social media.
to bring people together of liked minds. i've seen it have been to my staff much more, they are being trashed inward and deed. and it is something that once you are allowing people to incite violence, you are going to be getting violence. and that is why congressman gosar and has to be censored today. >> how about you congresswoman jackson-lee? >> chris, violence is on spiegel. i've seen an exponential increase on violence. violence by members of congress, we didn't even mention to you that metal detectors were put up around the house floor for the potential of members who are bringing guns on the floor of the house after january six. it is okay to use a first amendment. we sign up for a job that is the people's house.
we expect to be called out in restaurants, and maybe on, streets or attacked for are policies. but we don't expect to have a member, who is stoking the fires of violence in the context, not only of president trump spent four years of violently attacking various members of congress, and these of women of color who makes it even worse, i talk to police officers on january 6th meeting in an aftermath. and all of them were abused. but black officers made it very clear that there were racial evidence thrown out of them. and the thing i say to paul gosar, and to leader mccarthy, as you all know, 30 of us sent a letter to him begging for him to make a public statement about this violent rhetoric or conversation. what if he doesn't stop it then someone like the january six defendants will think that you have called them to action. and who knows will be the victim of that call?
>> congresswoman jackie speier and sheila jackson lee, thank you both for your time tonight. >> thank you for having us. >> the jury in the murder trial of kyle rittenhouse wrapped up just a few hours ago. they have gone to their sequestered location, surprise being over, yet there was still a lot of action in the courtroom today, next. by the defensive attorneys are calling for a mistrial, and maybe the question everyone's, mind what exactly is a deal with that judge? stick around, we'll be right back. ight back hydrates better than the $400 cream.
of jury deliberation in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. there's a lot of back and forth in the prosecution and the defense as the jury deliberated, there's the defense accused the prosecution of keeping a high quality video from. them and the prosecution pointed out that rittenhouse original attorney specifically referenced that video in an appearance on fox news. the defense request a mistrial with prejudice which means, rittenhouse could not be trial. but the judge has not ruled on that. now this is a case of all the americas named second by second thanks to the cameras in the courtroom. you've all got to know this drug, bruce trader. who, i have to say i has been kind of an odd duck. he's been on the bench since 1983. has the river he told the washington post, i'd say is more pro defense than pro prosecution in trial. the ruling he has made so far are consistent with what he has
done in the past. he began the trial by refusing the people were not shocked to refer to as victims -- he refused to allow prosecutors to show videos of rittenhouse watching lead before the shooting. as he calls him looters and says that he wishes he had a gun to shoot, them that was left. out at one point during the trial, the entire court was treated to the musical stylings of judge trader. >> and if the court makes a finding that the actions that i talked about -- >> [noise] >> were done in bad faith. >> wow, embarrassing and crunchy for anyone. yes that was god bless usa, that i, and ironically love. but also, just, context often heard of republican most famously those of donald trump. >> the judge also allowed call rittenhouse, the defended of accused of killing two people and wounded another, to personally select the names of
the jurors by picking them out with a number. nbc news asked legal experts about, this and none can remember seeing the process done this way. and then today, judge, trader offered a bizarre explanation to the policy, referring to a case that he presided over seven decades ago. >> it was a big, case i think it was a murder, case but i'm not sure. and there were, there was a black defendant, and there were 13 jurors, one of whom was black. and when the clerk, the government, official drew the name out of the tumbler, it was the only black. there was nothing wrong with. it was all okay. but what do they talk, about optics? it is at the word for it, that was a bad optic i. thought >> what's on earth, it was a bad optic for the black defendant to pick the black? >> he is apparently totally okay lounging next to the
defendant as from the both sides for evidence in the trial. i have to, say given the racial dynamics in play here as enunciated it lease in mr. traders -- as you watch all this happening as white judges have ruled on the assembly line in black and latinos, defendants judge rolling again, it's very hard to imagine this judge in that same position if the defendant was a person of color, in this case. >> joining me now the afro mentioned nostalgia, is correspondent for the, nation where he recently wrote, i hope everyone is prepared for call rittenhouse to go free. and maya wiley, and former assistant u.s. attorney. >> elie let me start with you because i've been reading your writing on. this i think everybody who has paid attention to the case has found the judge, as the kids, say extra. what is your impression of him? >> told you about that judge
before the trial was over. and it's not because i have a cristobal. it's because i watched what he did and what he did was be biased towards rittenhouse and every stage of this trial at every pretrial motion. obviously, carrying on through the. trump here's my problem with this argument, the argument of what -- this is all normal. no, this is a normal. this is not what most judges. stu and it's not because their pro, defense or pro prosecution. it is because the consistency of his decisions are all one way. and that's the thing, if you want to explain to this judge that it's not just about explaining any one individual decision which you can seek out in context, and see that that might have been reasonable. it's explaining the totality of this decision. and when you look at the totality of what he has, done he has extreme violence in favor of the white gunman in this case. which is just not something that you see every day. >> maya wiley, what do you
think? >> again, i don't know this cattle. i like the rest of america, i have been introduced him in this context. in the washington post piece they were defensive tierney's that said yes he's actually pro defense. which i should actually, note he's not normally the way that this goes on and criminal courtrooms after those who have been incredible courtrooms. this is definitely not the. standard but also, this has been a key moment really striking as to which way he appears to be leaning in all of. this in particularly hard on the prosecution, and many different moments, what do you think? >> first of, all i think unless i hear of defense attorney saying, well when i had a black defendant or latina defendant, he behaved exactly the same way. completely bias for the defendant. then i would be willing to say, okay. he is just pro defense.
i think the two things that i would point to that really for me were so deeply troubling about how he handled this trial, was one, obviously most recently when he threw that six count out. that weapons possession. remember, call rittenhouse, 17 years old, under wisconsin law not allowed to open carry. who wasn't even in lawful possession of that semi automatic rifle. analysts breaking curfew, and yet, he throws out that charge that says, that it was a misdemeanor. that literally said that he was breaking the law by carrying the firearm. that, i just could not understand based on reading the statute. and on this very bizarre argument that they seem to be making for kids who are 16 and under who can open carrie if they are hunting. >> right. >> the other point comes when frankly, as elie points, out he says that you cannot call these
folks victims. that would not be as troubling to me if they said you cannot just call all protesters riders. you can't call them antifa. if you remember what drew hernandez, who now works for ben who says, i am an independent journalist, i know all of these rioters and antifa. and as we know from the department of homeland security, a defund is not our village problem. it's right supremacy. and we know when the prosecution tried to impeach the credibility of that witness, the judge stopped. and so those are just very proof points to i think when elias. racing >> i will place something on screen for, today which i've been reading on, press always, dangerous he doesn't like the feedback so he is thinking twice about cameras
here, take a listen to what he had to say. >> i will tell you this, i'm going to think long hard about live television before the trial next time. i don't know i've always been affirmed the lever that people should see what's, going on but when you see what's being done, it's really quite frightening. >> i, mean above and beyond, that it's a real case of -- being here. it's a little like steep curl in the office where no one has been able to tell you what you can do in your courtroom because you have absolute power. and that dynamic which is a broader dynamic i have to say about a lot of judges, as anyone who practices in front of them will, tell you is very much on the the display here as. well >> this is a great way of highlighting this point, this is a judge who wants to be the star and was a star in his own mind. he's a star of his courtroom. he's the king of his capsule. and he's acting like. that again, a lot of lawyers will, say it is not unusual for
a judge to be that. way but just because it's not unusual doesn't mean that it is right. it is not unusual to let people let their dogs flick off human plates, right? but that's nasty. we shouldn't do. that and just because there's a lot of people do that, doesn't mean that i want to eat at your house, right? the judge forcing america to eat that is nasty house. and now he's annoyed that people are noticing the kind of usual biases that he puts in court and that people are noticing and aren't happy about. it that is not a real issue. the real issue is that he is making these decisions and judgments in favor of this white gunman. again, let's remember, maya brought up a lot of great, points i want to add one more, thing that just to, me highlights the bias in this case. he, on veterans day, the defense asked for a witness. rittenhouse asked for a witness. the judges knew that, and they said, is anybody of veteran in
this courtroom. we should give a round of applause -- and you had the jury clap for the expert witness. you do not see that, and so again if you're gonna defend the, judge you have to not just define anyone situation, but the totality of his experience. >> that was really, nuts elie mystal, and maya wiley,. maya great to have you. back next one of the most high-profile defenders in the january 6th attack was in court for sentencing today. where prosecutors were seeking the longest sentenced, yet we'll tell you what happens after this. en after this it's the ultimate sleep number event on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. and its temperature
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>> [noise] hey man, glad to see you guys, look at these, guys you've got them covered in blood, any chance that you guys can help me find the senate? >> you are disrespecting the. plays >> okay, i just wanna let you guys know that -- >> i'm just going to sit down on this chair because mike pence is a -- >> i'm going to get you guys to walk out of this room please? >> sure, come on man, >> i feel like you're pushing the -- limits >> come on man. this is our capital. be respectful. to there's 4 million people coming in >> it's only a matter of time justice is coming. >> i have to say that i have covered protests where people are doing nothing illegal and we're getting tear gassed up
the was, so that is always wild to watch that footage. and today, that guy received a 41 month sentence for his actions during the insurrection. it comes after he pleaded guilty to one felony county obstructing a physical proceeding. before congressman's and temper. and handing down his sentence, the judge told him what you did was horrific, obstructing the functioning of government. what you did was terrible. you made yourself the epitome of the ride. the reporter with the washington post covered that sentence today, and he joins me now, tom jackman, tell us a little bit about the scenes that sentence. >> i have to be honest, with you i was not in the courtroom because they now allow you to call in and listen. so i am able to sit at a keyboard and right. but he gave a 30 minute speech to the judge. explaining his spiritual goes to a spiritual guys which are gandhi and, this is seem to have a big impact on the judge.
who said to him, i think your remarks are the most remarkable that i have heard in 34 years. i think that you are genuine in your remorse, parts of those remarks are akin to the kinds of things that martha in knew their king would've said. and i would've said to like to see everybody's reaction in the courtroom when he said. this >> that is wild. and then he gives him a 41 month sentence which is, way more than he could have. and it's also the longest sentence thus far handed out. i think the numbers breakdown, there's been about four felony pleas, or for felonies that have been sentence, and this is tied for the longest, is that right? >> that's exactly right, yes, 41 months. and somebody else who punched a cop, last week, same judge, sentenced him also to 41 months. in both cases -- go ahead chris -- >> now go ahead. >> in both cases, it was
recommended to 41 to 51 months, and in both, and he gave them the low end of the guidelines, in both cases, their lawyer said please go lower, and the judge said no i'm not going to go lower. but i will give you the low end of the guideline, which is 41 months, in both cases. >> yes, he said you didn't like anybody, but what you did here was actually obstructing the whole government. 41 months is a significant amount of jail time, unlike some other, people who are not, violent it's drifting to me if it's equal to someone who slugged a cop. we are also going to see more cases that are going to end up with more jail time than, this but we are still at the front end of the processing of this enormous -- emma? right >> that's right. and the criminal defense lawyers know, especially in federal, court you want to get in. first to get the best deals, and the people that go later are potential to do worse in sentencing. and also the people who committed more violence are still to come. this guy didn't hit anybody. >> tom jackman, who is running for the washington post, thank
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#1 for psoriasis symptom relief and #1 for eczema symptom relief. gold bond. champion your skin. you have no doubt heard about this supply chain is trees that are coming to ruin the holiday season. empty shelves, and shortages from poultry, to cars, to coffee, cups tick turkeys. while on us to do in part with the backlog of shipping containers. but you might not have heard that things are actually improving on that front. for example, the rate of idle shipping containers at the massive in critical port of los angeles is down nearly 30% just this late october according to the port on director. that comes after president joe biden announced measures on relieving those backlogs, last month. so that appears to have worked, it least, it has gotten better after he did. and that is a good, think because consumer demand right now is strong, retails target
on, walmart both share strong sale numbers for the third quarter. and the companies are now, saying stores will be fully stocked for the holiday shopping season, and the concerns over at empty shelves are greatly exaggerated. those however, are not the only big scary headlines about the economy that did not actually quite worn out, do you remember just a few months ago here in coverage like this? >> august, a non farm payrolls increased a miniscule 235,000. >> today, disappointment, and the disconnect, only 235 jobs created, just a third of what was expected. >> i see 194, 000, that is really. low >> tonight, help wanted, just when america was expected to usher in a fall season of new hires instead, u.s. job growth dropped to its lowest pace. >> not to be, clear that coverage was not wrong at the. time it was the correct coverage. the august and september job reports, we covered it as such
on the show, but here's the thing about those government numbers. they often roads -- revise them later. usually just a little bit. but that happened exactly this week. and it turns out from june to september, the bureau of legal significance, josh, estimates say that 625,000 new jobs. that is the biggest revision since the 1970s, enormous. if that 625,000 number was its own jobs report, it would be an enormous unimpressive. one so it turns, up those headlines weren't true. not actually capturing. the job market didn't get really bad in the summer. he was wrong. the up toward jobs, report unemployment is, slow it has dropped to 4.6%. two years ahead of schedule, that's two years faster than congressional budget officers estimated. this is the fastest recovery right now in recent memory. demand is high. wages for the bottom 40% of workers are rising very fast, fast enough to help overcome what is the big central problem that everyone is rightfully
discussing. reena inflation. now if you listen to, republicans they will tell you that it is all president biden's fault. he went to big with the american rescue plan. the government's threat to. much overheated the economy. but the alternative, the cost of doing to little, would be catastrophic. after the economic meltdown in 2000, eight the government responded with a far insufficient stimulus that did not go far enough. and monetary policy was not as accommodating. and the republicans got in and we got the prosperity out what it all added up to us so many young adults who graduated into that labor market, that we will see their leaders -- wagers lower as a decade for result. the answer is not doing less to help people, but here is another problem with the biden theory, inflation is also a big time. in the united kingdom, more than 4%. is that also joe biden's fault? of course not. it's not even really prime minister boris johnson's fault. we are coming off a once in a century pandemic where we should on the economy on president and, way responded with unprecedented stimulus,
and nobody can say for sure with the road back to a normal economy looks like. right now we have a genuine problem. prices are going up too fast. that is reducing too many peoples real income. that is bad. but as mark sandy, chief in a new opinion piece today, the stimulus spending is not responsible. quote, the specter suddenly gave a boost demand to the last spring. but that faded when the delta variant gain momentum this. fault there is also no good way to connect the dots between the build back better agenda and higher inflation. >> look, all of economics is about trade-off. policy makers have to make difficult decisions under insurgency. and given the, choice between this economy that we have right, now and one in which prices are low, and guess is, cheap and tens and tens of millions of more people are out of work, it's an easy call. this is the better path. do not let that face hysteria convince you otherwise. ce you otherwise
american so far. it's just incomprehensible. there's another public health crisis that has been quietly unfolding across the country, killing 100,000 americans in just 12 months. from april 2020, to april 2021. 100,306 americans died from a drug overdose. now, to put that in perspective that number is essentially unheard of. it's up nearly 30% from the previous 12 months. it is twice as many people who died from overdoses just in 2015. according to the new york times, it's more than the total of carcasses and gun fatalities combined. most of death were caused by opioids and fend to lean, in particular. the vast majority of these, deaths about 70, persons were among men between the ages of 25 and 54. bear in, mind these staggering numbers were just from the first 12 months of the pandemic. the public health officials said that the crisis was only getting worse ever since. beth has been covering the opioid crisis, in which is now
a major series on who, lou "dopesick", it's great to have. you thank you for joining, us obviously under awful circumstances in terms of these numbers. as someone who has covered this for a while, was this data surprising, to you or are you expecting to see something like this? >> i was really expecting to see something like this, i have spent the last couple of years continuing to report, on the opioid crisis, the overdose crisis, and from all the communities that i have visited, the treatment got loose largely. we have an 88% treatment gap in this country. and that means that 12% of people, weren't able to excess treatment in the past, year so i knew it was about solutions, and how we have to meet them where they are. >> this is an incredibly important time when we get in the factors, here but you when i talked about this when we were on our podcast, why is this happening. >> when you said 80, percent there is just an unbelievable scarcity of treatment, and open
treatment options, for people who have opioid addiction, to go and get treatment for it. and that continues to be the, case even as in 2016, was a huge political issue when there was a special presence committee. there was some legislation that passed, and yet that gap still persists. >> yes, and a lot of that money that came down was looking that it was scary but we didn't have the infrastructure in place to get the money down to the ground level with the folks that were actually doing the work, to help people get better. so, a third of it just went to waste and went back into the budget. one of the things that i have come to realize is, that you know, when you look at the data of who is in getting treated, the large majority, 40%, say that they don't want to get better, okay. and that is largely because they've been stigmatized before, when they have tried to get better. so what we really need is to increase harm reduction, and that is this idea of going to
people where they are. needle exchanges. we know that people who visit needle exchanges don't just get syringe, they also get federal test, trip so we need to make sure there's not too much fentanyl in their drugs. they can get connected to treatment. we know that those folks, who visit needle exchanges, are five times more likely to enter treatment. but, 39 states allow it. we still have 11 states that don't allow. it we have 12 states that have been passed the medicaid expansion. these are kind of a low hanging fruit of how to curve our despair which continue to climb. >> it is such an important point. put that shut up again, i think there is not the map but the actual graph that shows the spike with fentanyl coming up in a spike. when you look at the, grab the people are looking at that right, not all drugs, our opioids. the thing that jumps up at, you is a opioids are driving a huge
amount of this increase. and i want to, know is this because, why? why is fentanyl increased? is it because more people are seeking it, out or they're getting it but not knowing? it is it more dangerous? what is going on with that fentanyl number that is doing so much harm? >> so, fentanyl is 50 to 100 times more potent than heroin. and dealers are mixing it in, with their other drugs. i heard a story of a 14 year old who died, not long, ago from a pill that he, bought he thought it was a, xanax but it was actually fentanyl. so a lot of these pills out there on the black market are laced with fentanyl. so it is very very dangerous, and i know that the government has, said we are trying to put a lot of effort into the lock, sewn and that is, great we really need to bring people who are overdosing back to life so that they can have a chance to try to get better again the next day. but, with fentanyl, infecting the supply, the way it, is by
the time the overdose it's too late. for some, and for many. in the state of this, we need to get more people access to mit. medication assistant treatment. the golden standard of care are methadone one. and we are just not seeing that being offered at a scale that matches the scale of this crisis. >> at the scale of use or addiction gone, up or has the percentage of danger of people using gone up? what >> percentage of danger has gone up. and, again, just not enough where people out there doing the work of trying to get these people into the system of care, i, mean these hundred of thousands of death, of course that's not counting all of the family and friends of those votes. but it's also not counting deaths from other drug related diseases, like hepatitis, see which is skyrocketing. and stage indoor car died, as i
know a 28, year old recently, who would rather than go to the hospital and be treated like, crap the way she was the last time she went to the hospital, she stayed home and died of stage one in the oh car titus. she was 28 years. old >> that may see who's reporting on, this is so crucial, thank you very, much that is all in on this once in night, the rachel maddow show starts right, now good evening rachel. >> good evening, thank you so much my, front and thank you so much for joining us this. our it was a sunday, in late february, 1965. the autobahn ballroom had 156 and broadway in harlem in new york city, it's a landmark, bill building, beautiful building, had a huge theater that's had thousands of people. and on the second floor there was an actual ballroom. and the capacity of the ballroom was smaller. the capacity of the ballroom for dinners and other seeded a events were about 200 people. but that, sunday february 21st, 1965, there were double.