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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  November 17, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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and his sister's wellbeing. so this is someone who is really concerned about how they're going to do after he's gone. >> i, as well, we should all be. we should be praying for that family. governor stitt, if you're watching this or get a clip of this, you can easily show mercy to this young man. let him fight for his freedom. my god, we have to be better than this at some point in our history. thank you. and that's tonight's reidout. "all in" with chris hayes starts now. tonight, on "all in" -- >> issuing a depiction of murdering a member of congress is wrong. >> a far right congressman faces punishment in the house. >> what is so hard, what is so hard about saying that this is wrong? >> tonight, the paul gosar vote, and the rising tide of political violence and violent threats in
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america. >> then, why this so-called qanon shaman and the book thrown at him at his sentencing hearing today. >> plus, as rittenhouse deliberations continue, can we talk about this judge for a minute? >> what do they talk about? optics nowadays. is that the word for things? that was a bad optic, i thought. >> then surprising new job growth revisions. shipping containers finally moving out of ports. why there's genuine good news about america's booming economic recovery, when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. article one, section six of the u.s. constitution immunizes members of congress for the things they say on the house or the floor of the house or senate. quote, the senators and representatives for any speech or debate in either house shall not be questioned in any other place. they cannot be questioned in court or by the president, for example. that's called the speech and debate clause. and the founders included the
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speech and debate clause because they recognized how important it is for members of congress to be able to speak freely. especially in arguments or in the course of legislative affairs and democratic conflicts. speech and debate are at the center of what it means to be a member of congress. it's what they do. and sometimes it gets nasty. not just in the year 2021. not just in our time. founders knew that. things got very, very nasty between them all the time. now, more broadly, outside of those congressional chambers, of course, we in constitutional law and american society, we have a distinction between speech which is rightly protected by the first amendment and all kinds of actions, particularly violence, which of course are not. there's a middle space between those two, between speech and action, between speech and violence, and that is speech that hints at violence or flirts with it or threatens or incites it. and there's a whole complex set of legal questions and
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jurisprudence about the nature of that speech. putting that aside, just talking as citizens, i think we can all agree that a civic culture in which prominent mainstream politicians are constantly engaging in that kind of speech is not a healthy one. a culture where prominent political leaders are constantly fantasizing about the use of violence against their political enemies or sharing cartoon versions of violence against their foes. not great for american democracy. and that was the subject of debate on the house floor today. members of the house took up the question of whether to censure republican paul gosar of arizona for posting a video that showed a photoshopped animation of him killing his democratic colleague, alexandria ocasio-cortez and attacking president joe biden. during the debate before that resolution passed stripping gosarof his committee assignments, the subject of that an amay film that was posted,
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alexandria ocasio-cortez stood up to lay out the broader case of how dangerous this all is. >> it is a sad day in which a member who leads a political party in the united states of america cannot bring themselves to say that issuing a depiction of murdering a member of congress is wrong. and instead decides to venture off into a tangent about gas prices and inflation. what is so hard, what is so hard about saying that this is wrong? our work here matters. our example matters. there is meaning in our service. and as leaders in this country, when we incite violence with depictions against our
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colleagues, that trickles down into violence in this country. and that is where we must draw the line independent of party, identity, or belief. >> congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez was not alone. other members also rose to speak about the increasing threats they have faced recently. >> i am a victim of violence. i know what it's like. i also was in the gallery clamoring for life when the shots rang out in the speakers' lobby. violence against women in politics is a global phenomenon. a 2016 survey by the interparliamentary union found 82% of women parliamentarians have experienced psychological violence. and 44% have received threats of death, rape, beatings, or
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abduction. the intent of these online threats against women is clear. silence them. strip them of their power. and discourage them from running for office. >> congresswoman jackie speier of california is also the sponsor of the resolution to censure paul gosar. she'll be joining me along with sheila jackson lee of texas in a bit. threats and violence are as best we can tell becoming more commonplace in politics. in a recent "new york times" piece, debbie dingell, democrat from michigan, said she was threatened by men with assault weapons outside her home after she was denounced by tucker carlson on his fox new chose. she also shared a portion of a voice mail, one of hundreds of threats. saying quote, they ought to try you for treason. i hope your family dies in front of you. i hope if you have children they die in your face. earlier this year, the capitol police backed up with data what has seemed to be the case, which is that there has been a 107%
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increase, a doubling in the threats against members year over year compared to 2020. a doubling. and of course, threats, people leaving voice mails, showing up outside your home, showing up with guns in the michigan state house, as they did last year, quite famously, it's not all abstract. i mean, now it comes in the aftermath of january 6th. the day that paul gosar sent this tweet saying joe biden should concede and threatening, don't make me come over here, with a picture of the mob, and of course, that was the day that thousands of rioters descended on the capitol, both threatening violence against measurers and even then vice president mike pence, and also engaging in violence against police officers. they brought a noose, they displayed on a gallows, and they chanted hang mike pence. not, you know, as a joke as far as we know. the threat of violence was everywhere that day. what do you think is the semantic purpose of the construction of a gallows outside a place?
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just listen to this clip of the mob stalking the halls looking for speaker nancy pelosi. >> where are you, nancy? we're looking for you. >> nancy! oh, nancy. nancy. >> what do you think they would have done if they had found her? what's implied in that? you think they want to meet her? over the past several years, this threat of violence has seeped into political rhetoric on the right much more broadly. there was this, this is one. i'm picking essentially at random. this menacing statement from matt gaetz of florida who was angry about social networks censuring conservatives earlier this year. >> silicon valley can't cancel this movement or this rally or this congressman. we have a second amendment in
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this country, and i think we have an obligation to use it. >> what's that mean? what's it mean? you have a second amendment. you shoot twitter? marjorie taylor greene of georgia, this is sort of par for the course, made all sorts of disturbing threats, like there was this image she posted on facebook last year, posing with a big gun next to pictures of democrats ilhan omar and alexandria ocasio-cortez and rashida tlaib, captioning squad's worst nightmare. this iconography, the conserve tb politician with the big gun, that's everywhere. i mean, you can pull up primary republican ads at random right now, and the flirtation with the endorsements of political violence is increasingly main stream among conservative republicans. and it's not good. and my thinking about that, aside from common sense, is informed by a book i read about the period leading up to the civil war by historian joann
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freeman, and it's an incredible book, and she documents this period, called the field of blood. in it, painstakingly, it took her about ten years to write it, she tracks how often debates in congress about slavery became heated and then passed heat on how often there were threats, explicit threats of duels and violence and even actual violence. the most famous, of course, the caning of senator charles summoner in 1856, after he criticized slave holders. but even before that caning, and amidst that time, the specter of violence loomed. the rhetoric of it. and all of that represented the breakdown in the democratic culture of the nation as it moved towards a cataclysm of war on behalf of the slavers. we're at a very different place right now. very different place. thankfully. but the lesson there is important. there is every reason in the world to take this stuff seriously and to be alarmed by it.
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congresswoman ocasio-cortez is right, it's wrong. it's wrong. we should be concerned about what it means in terms of the safety of members of congress, sure, the nature of the modern republican party, but what it means for the very health of american democracy at this moment. congresswoman jackie speier is a democrat representing california's 14th congressional district. she introduced today's resolution censuring paul gosar, and congresswoman sheila jackson lee represents texas's 18th district. she was cosponsor of the resolution. let me start with you because we played the clip of you mentioning that you had been victim of violence, you had witnessed violence first-hand, and people may know this story but it may be worthwhile talking about that experience and how it informed how you think about the resolution you introduced on the floor of the capitol today. >> thank you, chris, for having us on. i was shot five times and left for dead in the jungles of guyana when i was an add to leo
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ryan, who was assassinated because jim jones and his cult chose to take the action they did. having said that, there is someone who has just been convicted in california for having sent me a number of post cards saying he wanted to put a bullet in my head. this is the kind of conduct that we have got to shut down. and this resolution was important because we have to draw a red line in the conduct of members when they are suggesting that they murder a colleague. so censure was absolutely appropriate in this set of circumstances. >> congresswoman jackson lee, the argument to the extent there was, i don't think there was much affirmative defense, although paul gosar just retweeted someone retweeting it, so i don't think he's too torn up about it, but mostly what the reaction from republicans, and there were only two republicans who voted in favor of this, congresswoman cheney and congressman kinzinger was, hey,
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this was dumb. it was dumb. he shouldn't have done it. it was a dumb joke. it's a cartoon. not that big a deal. what do you say to that? why did you vote for the resolution? >> first of all, chris, thank you for having us. i'm delighted to be here with my very heroic and very special colleague, congresswoman speie. . let me be clear, we live in a violent world and a violent time. and congressman gosar has lived in that violent time with his words. he was on stage on january 6th, one of the most violent moments in american history. he has offered no apologies for his actions in provoking of that day. we started the year violently. this is a time when members are being attacked by words, and yes, by deeds, violently. and so this was not a partisan
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effort. it was not a political effort. it is really life-saving because what this congressman was doing was showing and promoting the killing of a member of congress and the assaulting and potential killing of the president of the united states. i thought enough was enough. that it was important to save a life. because frankly, after 3 million views, he said he took it down, 3 million views. who knows who is provoked to believe that paul gosar is telling the truth, but not only telling the truth, he's giving a clarion call to action to kill a member of congress or members of congress as have already been indicated, or the president of the united states. i thought it was imperative that we indicate this is unacceptable behavior for a member of congress. he needed to be censured. >> let me ask you both, how long have you served in congress? >> 13 years. >> 13 years, and congresswoman jackson lee, how long have you
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served? >> 24 years. >> so you both have been in congress for a while, and i want to go to you, congressman speier and then congressman jackson lee. there's a condition and what's changed. i think that probably as long as there's been voice mail and mail, you have gotten nasty voice mails, nasty mail, and as i have often said on this show, you know, being rude to an elected member is kind of your god given right an azine american. it's part of a free society, and that's how it should be in a democracy. but threats are a different category. and have you seen, both of you in your time, is it worse now? do you personally feel and see an uptick in that kind of communication? in the kinds of threats that someone was just for instance convicted of, congresswoman speier, have you seen an uptick? >> no question. it's a combination of donald trump's presidency and the use of social media to bring people
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together of like minds. i have seen it happen to my staff much more. they are being trashed both in word and deed. and it is something that once you are allowing people to incite violence, you are going to beget violence. and that's why congressman gosar had to be censured today. >> how about you, congressman jackson lee? >> chris, violence is on speed dial. i have seen an exponential increase in violence, but here's the difference. violence by members of congress, we didn't even mention to you that metal detectors were put up around the house floor for the potential of members who were bringing guns on the floor of the house after january 6th. it's okay to use the first amendment. we sign up for a job that is the people's house. we expect to be called out in
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restaurants or maybe on streets or attacked for our policies. but we don't expect to have a member who is stoking the fires of violence in the context not only of president trump who spent four years violently attacking various members of congress, and these are women of color as well that makes it worse. i talk to police officers on january 6th in the aftermath, and all of them were abused, but black officers made it very clear, there were racial epithets thrown at them, so it's heightened. and the think i say to paul gosar and to leader mccarthy, who as you well known, 30 of us sent a letter to him begging for him to make a public statement about this violent rhetoric or conversation, is that if you don't stop it, then someone like the january 6th defendants will think that you have called them to action. and who knows will be the victim of that call?
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>> congresswoman jackie speier, congresswoman sheila jackson lee, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> the jury in the murder trial of kyle rittenhouse wrapped up itsd second day of deliberations. they have gone, well, to their sequestered location. despite there being no verdict yet, there was still a lot of action in the courtroom today. next, why the defense attorneys are calling for a mistrial, and maybe the question on everyone's minds, what exactly is the deal with that judge? stick around. we'll be right back. - 'cause we can see each other's favorites all in one place. - and go back and forth with comments. oh romeo, romeo, i love our new home. - realtor.com, to each their home. i love our new home. - realtor.com, to eachkevin! home. kevin? kevin. oh nice. kevin, where are you? kevin?!?!? hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe.
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two of jury deliberation in the trial of kyle rittenhouse. there's a lot of back and forth between the prosecution and defense as the jury deliberated, as the defense accused the prosecution of keeping a high quality video of the incident from them, and the prosecution pointed out that rittenhouse's original attorney was specifically -- has specifically referenced that video in an appearance on fox news. the defense requested a mistrial with prejudice, which means rittenhouse could not be tried again. the judge has not ruled on that yet. now, this is case that all of america has been able to see, second by second, thanks to the cameras in the courtroom. we have all gotten to know this jun, bruce schroeder, who i have to say has been kind of an odd duck. he's been on the bench since 1983. he has the rare reputation as being pro-defendant. one criminal defense lawyer who has appeared before schroeder, quote, hundreds of times, told the washington times, i would
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say he's more pro defense. schroeder began the trial by allowing to refusing to allow the people rittenhouse shot to be called victims. as the nation's ellie nustall points out, he calls them looters and said he wished he had a gun to shoot them. that was left out. at one point, the court was left to the musical stylings of the judge's ring tone. >> if the court makes a finding that the actions that i talked about -- >> -- were done in bad faith. >> wow, embarrassing and cringy for anyone. yes, that was god bless the usa, a staple that i unironically love, but also, in context, heard at political rallies, most famously of donald trump. for the judge also allowed kyle rittenhouse, the defendant accused of killing two people
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and wounding another, to personally select the names who would decide the case. msnbc asked several legal experts about this, and none could remember seeing the process done this way. today, after being criticized, he offered a bizarre explanation to the policy, referring to a case he presided over several decades ago. >> it was a big case, i think it was a murder case, but i'm not sure. there was a black defendant, and there were 13 jurors. one of whom was black. and when the clerk, the clerk, the government official drew the name out of the tumbler, it was a black, the black, the only black. there was nothing wrong with it. it was all okay, but what do they talk about? optics nowadays, is that the word for things? that was a bad optic, i thought. >> what on earth? it was a bad optic, the black government clerk picked the black juror? so judge schroeder likes the optics of kyle rittenhouse doing
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his own selection. he's okay lounging next to the defendant as the attorneys for both sides debate evident in the trial. i mean, i have to say, given the racial dynamics at play here, as enunciated at least in mr. schroeder's recollection, when you watch all this happen, if you have been in the courtrooms as white judges have ruled on the assembly line of black and latino defendants just rolling before them, it is very hard to imagine this judge in that same position if the defendant was a person of color in this case. joining me now, the aforementioned ally mistell, who he wrote i hope everyone is prepared for kyle rittenhouse to go free, and maya wiley, former assistant u.s. attorney. ellie, let me start with you because i have been reting your writing on this. i think everyone who has paid attention to the case has found the judge as the kids say, extra. what is your -- what is your impression of him? >> told you about that judge. told you about that judge before
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the trial started. and it's not because i have a crystal ball. it's because i watched what he did. and what he did was be biased towards rittenhouse at every stage of this trial. at every pretrial motion. obviously carrying on now through the trial. here's my problem with this argument, this new argument that, oh, actually, he's just pro-defense and this is normal. no, no, it ain't normal. this is not what most judges do, and it's not because they're pro-defense or pro-prosecution. it's because the consistency of his decisions are all one way. and see, that's the thing. if you want to explain this judge, it's not just about explaining any one individual decision, which you can take out of context and say, oh, okay, that might have been reasonable. it's explain the totality of his decisions. when you look at the totality of what he's done, what you have is extreme bias in favor of the white gunman in this case, which is just not something that you see every day. >> maya, what do you think?
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again, i don't know this guy at all. i like the rest of america have been introduced to him in this context. there were, you know, to ellie's point, in the "washington post" piece, defense attorneys who said he's pretty pro-defense, which i should note is not normally the way this goes down in criminal courtrooms. definitely not the standard. but also, it really has seemed like at key moments, really striking, like which way he appears to be leaning in all this. he's been particularly hard on the prosecution in many different moments. what do you think? >> well, first of all, i think unless i hear defense attorneys say, well, when i had a black defendant or a latino defendant, you know, kenosha is only 10% black. he behaved exactly the same way, completely biased for the defendant. then i would be willing to say okay. he's just pro-defense.
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i think the two things i would point to that really for me were so deeply troubling about how he handled this trial was, one, you know, obviously, this recently when he threw that sixth count out, that weapons possession. remember, kyle rittenhouse, 17 years old, under wisconsin law, not allowed to open carry. wasn't even in lawful possession of that semiautomatic rifle, and was breaking curfew, yet he throws out that charge that says, you know, that it was a misdemeanor, but literally says he was breaking the law by carrying that firearm. that, i just could not understand based on reading the statute. and on this very bizarre argument he seemed to be making for kids who are 16 and under who can open carry if they're hunting. the other point comes when frankly, as ellie points out, he
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says you can't call these folks victims. these people who are dead or injured. now, that would not be as troubling to me if he also said you can't just call all protesters rioters. you just can't call all them antifa. if you remember when drew hernandez, you know, who now works for bannon's shot, says i'm an independent journalist. there's all these rioters and antifa. as we know from the department of homeland security, antifa is not our violence problem. it's white supremacy. and yet there was no -- when the prosecution tried to impeach the credibility of that witness, the judge stopped them. so those are just very proof points to what ellie is raising. >> i will play something he said today which i think he has been reading his own press, which as a public figure, always dangerous. but he doesn't like the
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feedback, so he's thinking twice about cameras here. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i will tell you this. i'm going to think long and hard about live television of a trial again next time. i don't know. i have always been a firm believer in it because i think the people should be able to see what's going on, but when i see what being done, it's quite frightening. >> above and beyond that, there's a real case of judge brain here, which is like, it's a little like steve carell in the office, where no one has been able to tell you, like, what they think of you ever in your courtroom because you have absolute power. and like, that dynamic, which is a broader dynamic, i have to say, of a lot of judges, as anyone who practiced in front of them will tell you, is very much on display here as well. >> yeah, look. one of -- this is a great way of highlighting this point. this is a judge who wants to be the star, who is the star in his own meantime. he's the star of his courtroom, the king of his castle, and he's acting like that. now, again, a lot of lawyers will say, it's not unusual for a
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judge to be that way. but just because it's not unusual doesn't make it right. doesn't make it okay. right? like look, i have known people, it's not unusual for some people to let their dogs lick off human plates, right? but that's nasty. like, we shouldn't do that. and just because there are a lot of people who do that doesn't mean i want to eat at your house. the judge is forcing america to eat at his nasty house. and now he's annoyed that people are noticing the kind of usual biases that he puts in place, that people are noticing and aren't happy about it. that's not a real issue. the real issue is that he is making these decisions and judgments in favor of this white gunman. again, let's remember, maya brought up a lot of great points. i want to add one more thing, just to me highlights the bias in this case. he had -- on veterans day, the defense's expert wince, rittenhouse's expert witness was a veteran. the juge knew that and said is
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anyone a veteran in the courtroom? we should give a round of applause. he had the jury clap for the expert witness. if you're going to defend the judge, you can't just defend one decision but the totality of his experience. >> thank you both. maya, great to have you back. >> next, one of the most high profile defendants in the january 6th attack was in court for sentencing today where prosecutors were seeking the longest sentence yet. we'll tell you what happened after this. you might feel bothered by it. so talk to a urologist. because a bend in your erection might be peyronie's disease or pd. it's a condition that involves a buildup of scar tissue. but, it's treatable. xiaflex is the only fda- approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate adult men with peyronie's disease. along with daily penile stretching and straightening exercises, xiaflex has been proven to help gradually reduce the bend. don't receive if the treatment area involves your urethra, or if you're allergic to any collagenase or any of the ingredients.
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riters in the january 6th insurrection was a man known as jacob chansley, you probably remember him. he was kind of the face of it all. showed up at the capitol shirtless, with red and blue face paint, and he made it to the senate chamber and to the chair that the recently been evacuated by vice president mike
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pence. it was an indelible scene captured by a reporter. >> hey, man. glad to see you guys. look at this guy. he's covered in blood. god bless you. any chance i could get you guys to leave the senate wing? >> i'm making sure they're not disrespecting the place. >> want to let you know this is the sacredest place. >> i'm going to take a seat in this chair. >> now that you have done that, can i get you to walk out of the room please? >> yes, sir. >> come on, man. >> i feel like you're pushing the line. >> come on, man. >> this is our capitol. >> let's be respectful. there's 4 million people coming in. we love you guys. we love the cops. >> only a matter of time. justice is coming. >> i have to say that i have covered protests where people were doing nothing illegal and wrong and were getting tear
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gassed. and so that's always wild to watch that footage. and today, that guy received a 41-month sentence for his actions during the insurrection. comes after he pleaded guilty to one felony count of obstructing an official proceeding before congress in september. in handing down the sentence, the judge told him what you did was horrific. obstructing the functioning of government, what you did was terrible. you made yourself the epitome of the riot. tom jackson covered that and he joins me now. tell me about the scene at the sentencing today. >> i have to be honest, i was not in the courtroom because they now allow you to call in and listen. so i'm able to sit at the keyboard and write. but he gave a 30-minute speech to the judge, explaining his spiritual goals, who his spiritual guides are, which are gandhi and jesus christ, and
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this seemed to have a big impact on the judge, who said to him, i think your remarks are the most remarkable that i have heard in 34 years. i think you are genuine in your remorse, parts of those remarks are akin to the kinds of things that martin luther king would have said. and i would have liked to have seen everybody's reaction in the courtroom when the judge said those. >> that's wild. and then, but then he gives him a 41-month sentence, which is way more than he could have. and is also the longest sentence thus far handed out. i think the numbers break down that there's been about -- only four felony pleas or four felonies that have been sentenced. this is tied for the longest. is that right? >> that's exactly right. yeah, 41 months. somebody else who punched a cop last week, same judge, sentenced him also to 41. >> yeah, i mean -- >> both cases -- go ahead, chris.
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>> you go ahead. >> in both cases the range of sentencing recommended was 41 to 51 months, and both cases, lambert gave them the low end of the guidelines. in both cases, their lawyers said please go lower, and the judge said i'm not going to go lower but i will give you the low end of the guidelines. >> he said you didn't slug anybody, but what you did was obstruct the function of the whole government. and 41 months is a long time. it's interesting to me that it's tied with a guy who slugged a cop. we also think we're going to see more cases that are going teend up in more jail time than this, but we're still at the front end of the processing of this enormous cohort, isn't that right? >> that's right. and all good criminal defense lawyers know especially in federal court, you want to get in first to get the best deals, and the people who go later and have folks to testify against them will do worse in terms of septemberancing, and also the people who committed more violence are still to come. this guy didn't hit anybody.
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>> tom jackman, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> coming up, important news on the strength of america's economic recovery. signs of an easing supply chain crisis. the job numbers that keep getting revised up. we'll talk about it all after this. king for what we want, and need... and we need more time. so, we want kisqali. living longer is possible and proven with kisqali when taken with a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor in premenopausal women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali is a pill that's significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor alone. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious skin reactions, liver problems, and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain, a change in your heartbeat, dizziness, yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain,
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the most common side effects are upper respiratory tract infection, headache, and injection reactions. ready for an at-home treatment with dramatic results? it's time to ask your doctor about kesimpta. you have no doubt heard of the supply chain issues that are coming to ruin the holiday season. empty shelves at the store, shortages of everything from poultry to cars to coffee cups to turkeys. that has to do in part with a backlog of shipping containers at major ports. but you might not have heard that things are actually improving on that front. for example, the rate of idle shipping containers at the massive and critical port of los angeles is down nearly 30% just since late october, according to the port's own director. that comes after president joe biden announced measures focused on relieving those backlogs last month. so that appears to have worked,
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at least it's gotten better after he did it. that's a good thing because consumer demand right now is strong. retail giants target and walmart both shared strong sales numbers for the third quarter. and the companies are now saying stores will be fully stocked for the holiday shopping season, and the concerns over empty shelves are greatly exaggerated. those are not, however, the only big scary headlines about the economy that have not actually quite worn out. do you remember, just a few months ago, hearing coverage like this. >> august nonfarm pay rolls increase a minuscule 235,000. >> today, disappointment and a disconnect. only 235,000 jobs created. just a third of what was expected. >> i see 194,000. that is real low. >> tonight, help wanted. just when america was expected to usher in a mall season of new hires, instead, u.s. job growth stops to its slowest pace of the year. >> now to be clear, that coverage was not wrong at the
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time. it was the correct coverage. the august and september jobs reports were pretty dismal. we covered it as such on this show. here's the thing about those government numbers. they often revise them later. usually just a little bit, but that happened -- that's contactually what happened this week, and it turns out from june to september, the bureau of labor statistics estimates missed 625,000 new jobs. that is the biggest revision since the 1970s. enormous. if that 625,000 number was its own jobs report, it would be an enormously impressive one. it turns out those headlines weren't true. not actually capturing what was happening. the job market didn't get really bad in the summer. it is roaring. the october jobs report also excellent. unployment is low. it's dropped to 4.6%. two years ahead of schedule. two years faster than the congressional budget office had estimated. this is the fastest recovery right now in recent memory. demand is high. wages for the bottom 40% of workers are rising very fast.
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fast enough to help overcome what is the big central problem that everyone is rightly discussing right now, inflation. now, if you listen to republicans, they well tell you it's all president biden's fault. he went too big with the american rescue plan, the government spent too much, overheated the economy. but the alternative, the cost of doing too little would be catastrophic. after the economic meltdown in 2008, the government responded with a far insufficient stimulus that did not go far enough, and monetary policy was not as accommodating, and then republicans got in and we got austerity, and we had so many young adults to graduated into the labor market that will see their wages lowered for a decade as a result. the answer is not doing less to help people. here's another problem. inflation is also up big time in the united kingdom. more than 4%. is that also joe biden's fault? of course not. not even really prime minister boris johnson's fault. we're coming out of a once in a
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century pandemic where we shut down the economy in an unprecedented way. responded with an unprecedented stimulus and no one can say what the road back looks like. we have a genuine problem. prices are going up too fast. that is reducing too many people's real income. that is bad. but as mark zandi, chief economist at moodies analytics argues, the stimulus spending is not responsible. quote, these factors certainly gave a boost to demand last spring. but that faded when the delta variant gained momentum this fall. there's also no good way to connect the dots between the build back better agenda and higher inflation. look, all of economics is about tradeoffs. policymakers have to make difficult decisions under uncertainty. but given the choice between these economy we have right now and one in which prices are low and gas is cheap and 10s and 10s of more millions people are out of work, it's an easy call. this is the better path. do not let bad faith hysteria convince you otherwise.
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everyone has understandably focused on the covid crisis that has now killed more than 769,000 americans so far. it is just incomprehensible. there's another public health crisis that has been quietly unfolding across the country, killing 100,000 americans in just 12 months. from april 2020 to april 2021, 100,306 americans died from a drug overdose. to put it in perspective, that number is essentially unheard of, up nearly 30% from the previous 12 months. it is twice as many who died from overdoses just in 2015. according to "the new york times" it is more than the total of car crashes and gun fatalities combined. most deaths caused by opioids and fentanyl in particular. in the vast majority of the deaths about 70% were among men between the ages of 25 and 54. bear in mind the staggering numbers are from the first 12 months of the pandemic and
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public health officials say the crisis has only been getting worse ever since. beth macy has been covering the opioid crisis extensively and her book "dopesick" and it is now on hulu. great to have you join us. as someone who covered it for a while, was the data surprising to you or did you expect to see something like this? >> i was really expecting to see something like this. i spent the last couple of years continuing to report on the opioid crisis, the overdose crisis, and from all of the communities that i have visited the treatment gap looms large, chris. we have an 88% treatment gap in this country, and that means that 12% of people with oud weren't able to access treatment in the past year. so my new book is about solutions and how we have to meet them where they are. >> okay. this is an incredibly important point. i want to get into the factors, but you and i talked about this
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on the podcast "why is this happening." when you say 88%, said there is an unbelievable scarcity of treatment beds and open treatment options for people who have opioid addiction to go get treatment for it, and that continues to be the case even as in 2016 it was a huge political issue and there was a big special president's commission in 2017. there was some legislation that passed and yet that gap still persists. >> yes, and a lot of that money that came down, which, look, it was great, but we didn't have the infrastructure in place to get the money down to the ground level with the folks that were actually doing the work, to help people get better. so a third of it just went to waste and went back into the budget. so one of the things i have come to realize is that, you know, when you look at the data of who isn't getting treated, the large majority, 40% say they don't want to get better. okay. that's largely because they've
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been stigmatized before when they have tried to get better, so what we really need is to increase harm reduction. that's this idea of going to people where they are, needle exchanges. we know that people who visit needle exchanges don't just get syringe -- sterile syringes, they get fentanyl test strips to make sure there's not too much fentanyl in their drugs. they can get connected to treatment. we know that those folks that visit needle exchanges are five times more likely to enter treatment, but we -- >> wow. >> -- 39 states allow it and you still have 11 states that don't allow it. we still have 12 states that haven't passed the medicaid expansion. these are the low-hanging fruits of how to curb our deaths of despair, which continue to climb. >> yes, it is such an important point. can we put the chart up again that shows the increase, particularly with fentanyl. i think there's three ways -- not the map, but the actual graph that shows that spike, particularly with fentanyl coming up underneath.
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there you go. so when you look at that graph, people are looking at it right now, all drugs, all opioids, the thing that jumps out to you is synthetic opioids, fentanyl are just driving a huge amount of the increase. i guess my question to you is, is this because why? why is fentanyl increased? is it more people are seeking it out, are they getting it and not knowing it? is it more dangerous? like what is going on with that fentanyl number that is doing so much harm? >> yeah, so fentanyl is 50 to 100 times more potent than heroin, and dealers are mixing it in with their other drugs. i heard a story of a 14 year old who died not long ago from a pill he bought, he thought it was a xanax but it was actually fentanyl. so a lot of these pills out there on the black market are laced with fentanyl. so it is very, very dangerous. i know the government has said, you know, we're trying to put at lot of effort into naloxone and
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that's great, we need to bring people who are overdosing back to life so they can have a chance to try to get better again the next day. but with fentanyl, infecting the supply the way it is, by the time they overdose it is too late, you know, for some, for many. this data bears that out, which is why we need to get people more access to mat, medication assisted treatments. the gold standards are methadone, and we are just not seeing that being offered at a scale that matches the scale of this crisis. >> has the scale of user addiction gone up or has the percentage of danger of people using gone up? >> percentage of danger has gone up. >> yeah. >> again, just not enough -- not enough people out there doing the work of trying to get these people into systems of care. i mean so these 100,000 deaths, of course that's not counting the families and friends of those folks, but it is also not
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counting deaths from other drug-related diseases like hepatitis c, which is skyrocketing, end stage end owecarditis. i know a 28 year old recently who rather than go to the hospital and be treated like crap the last time she was in the hospital, she stayed home and died of end-stage endocarditis >> beth macy, who has been reporting on this. that's "all in" and rachel maddow starts right now. >> good evening. it is much appreciated. thank you for joining us this hour. it was a sunday in late february, 1965, the audubon ballroom at 165th and broadway in harlem in new york city. it was a landmark big building, beautiful building. had a huge theater that sat thousands of people. on the second floor there was an actual ballroom, and the capacity of the ballroom was smaller. the capacity of the ballroom for

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