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tv   The 11th Hour With Brian Williams  MSNBC  November 16, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST

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[ applause ] we have so much work to do, and it will take all of us to get it done. so let's get to work. [ applause ] the honorable michelle wu gets to want's last word. and a programming note, you can hear the latest news and updates from all of your favorite msnbc hosts any time, anywhere on any device with tunein. go to tunein.com/msnbc2021 to listen commercial free with tunein premium. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. well, good evening once again. day 301 of the biden administration.
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and the one six committee is sending a signal that a critical witness in their investigation will need to show up to testify or face the consequences, which, if we're being honest, are unclear. mark meadows served as donald trump's final white house chief of staff. before that, he was a congressman from north carolina. like steve bannon, he's refusing to come play. they're set to be looking at the criminal contempt referral just like they did with bannon. benny thompson said meadows still has time to answer his subpoena, but he warns he likely won't wait indefinitely. earlier this evening, one committee member made it clear discussions about one mark meadows are at a serious stage. >> we had a very good discussion, making sure that all of the elements that would be necessary, the support of prosecution are present. we met with the committee lawyers, and i would say this
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discussion is very much ongoing. we are going to pursue every piece of evidence so that when we are through, we'll be able to tell the american public and our colleagues here in the congress everything there is to know so that we can take appropriate action, whether it's revising the act, revisiting the insurrection act or a number of many other things that we want to take a look at. >> more subpoenas are coming, but would not say when. the committee sites meadow having been with trump as one big reason they're hoping to hear from him. meadows is reported to play a role in sending a memo to mike pence explaining how the vice president could refuse to certify biden's 2020 victory. reports indicate there was one of four such memos details how trump could remain in power
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despite having lost the election fair and square. ap says the house select committee also considering a possible contempt referral against the author of a similar document circulated around the justice department. lawmakers say that former doj lawyer, jeffrey clark, showed up for his deposition but was uncooperative. backing trump's false claims of election fraud. meanwhile, trump's attorneys are busy with his lawsuit. today they filed documents with a federal appeals court asking judges to support this claim of executive privilege, arguing a defeat would open the door for lawmakers to harass their political rivals. courtroom arguments in the case scheduled for november 30th. tomorrow the house is expected to address what many say is a clear-cut example of political harassment with potentially dangerous implications.
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lawmakers will vote to sen sure paul gosar for posting that video that depicts him killing aoc and attacking the president. they will vote to strip him of his assignments on the oversight and natural resources committees. >> he made threats and suggestions about harming a member of congress. that is an insult, not only an endangerment. we cannot have members joking about murdering each other as well as threatening the president of the united states. >> while it remains to be seen just how many republicans will vote against their arizona colleague, both republicans on this 1/6 committee say they will vote to censure paul gosar tomorrow. all of this unfolding as the president kicks off a national tour to kick off his legislation
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to rebuild our crumbling national infrastructure. today joe biden was in bookstock new hampshire. tomorrow he heads to detroit. he's also making a pitch for his other policy initiative, let's not forget. that nearly $2 trillion social spending bill. >> my plan to build back better for our people. it's going to reduce inflation. i'm confident that the house is going to pass this bill, and when it passes, it will go to the senate. i think we'll get it passed within a week. >> house democratic leaders are pushing to pass the bill this week. speaker pelosi said no one is leafing for thanksgiving until that's done. as for the president's other domestic priority, the pandemic, there is concerning news on that front. rising covid cases across our country are sparking fears of some sort of holiday surge again. nbc news reports the fda may be just days away from authorizing booster shots for everyone who
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wants one over the age of 18. we'll have more on the covid headlines later in this broadcast. also tonight the jury in the trial of kyle rittenhouse resumes a second day of deliberations in just a few hours. jurors spent about eight hours considering the charges today before being sent home for the night. rittenhouse himself helped randomly select the trial's six alternate jurors. the remaining 12 jurors from the pool of 18 are now considering his fate. with that, let's bring in our starting line on this tuesday night. our guest to start us off, peter baker, veteran journalist and author chief white house correspondent for "the new york times." yamiche alcindor, moderator of washington week also on pbs. and chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney, former senior fbi official who notely happens to be the host of the msnbc podcast
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"the oath." are we going to find out if this committee is contempt curious or how serious they are? because if you are mark meadows, don't you have reason to think, oh, i don't know, maybe let's -- let's try our hand at beat the clock. it looks like bannon is going to take his time going through the halls of justice. >> well, based on my conversations with sources and based also on just public comments of the lawmakers that are on this committee, they're very, very serious about trying to make sure these subpoenas are in force. let's remember that steve bannon who is now indicted on federal charges, he's in a different category because he wasn't working at the white house. in some ways we have mark meadows trying to claim executive privilege. another person that could be used as an example for a lot of people they subpoenaed who were working in the white house. from my understanding, we're not sure if they will vote on a contempt charge.
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but we should look at these increasing subpoenas as a sign these lawmakers will not just take a no from mark meadows, not take being told no lightly. >> peter baker, did anyone in biden world in the scope of your reporting foresee an effort, not by them, by congress and by an independent doj to, in effect, go after prior enemies from a prior administration? the difference being, of course, this is an actual department of justice and not a wing of the west wing. >> yeah. i think this was an always inevitable likelihood that they saw and that members of congress saw because we know that the trump tactic has been to, you know, withstand or defy congressional efforts to impose overnight. that was true during the impeachment, the first impeachment. that was true during a number of committee inquiries in the last two years of president trump's term.
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the difference is you have a democratic justice department and democratic justice department will be much more sympathetic to the democratic congress in enforcing these subpoenas. now, you know, steve bannon doesn't seem to mind that he's been charged criminally, and he will have this fight. he seems to be relishing it. it makes him a martyr for his side of the political spectrum. mark meadows in a slightly different position. obviously, he's on the right side of the -- that is the political right of the republican party. but he was a white house u.s. staff and a member of congress. he had never been quite the anarchist that steve bannon likes to play. by the other side, he's legislative before. he's got a president, a former president who is telling him not to talk. he probably has a stronger case. we haven't seen anything quite like this since the nixon era in the 1970s. >> chuck, i'd like to play for you some of the comments from bannon's lawyer, trump's former
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impeachment round two lawyer, mr. showen. and after we play those, we have taken the liberty of abutting some of the comments from bannon himself that may be a bit of a counter weight to what his attorney says here. >> as a layperson, in my view at least and based on the advice he got from his lawyer, mr. bannon had no choice. i met him yesterday for the first time. i would not believe for a second that mr. bannon in any way intended for there to be condoned, accepted, ratified or otherwise any violence on january 6th or any other day. i just don't believe it. >> it is going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all i can say is strap in. you have made this happen, and tomorrow it's game day. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it is going to be moving. it is going to be quick. >> so, chuck, is the lesson here for anyone else in the audience
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perhaps spend more time with your client before saying what he did on cnn? >> you know, brian, mr. bannon seems to know more about what mr. bannon is thinking than mr. bannon's lawyer does. yeah, that's exactly right. but, look, all these things they are saying publically are for public consumption. it doesn't matter when we're inside the courthouse what you say outside the courthouse to try to influence public perceptions. what matters is what happens in the courthouse. the evidence that's deduced. the things the judge rules as admissible and the arguments you make to a jury if it stands up before a jury. so it is interesting to hear bannon in bannon's own words, but it doesn't have any effect on the trial of steve bannon. that's what we ought to keep our focus on. >> yamiche alcindor, i want to read you something that is the definition of hootspa.
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this is a tweet from a republican member of congress down in alabama. this is really fantastic. completion of birmingham's northern beltline has been a priority of mine since i was elected to congress and new funding for the project has now passed. see my full statement here. the only problem is he voted against it. so are republicans going to continue doing this with a straight face? >> absolutely. and that tweet reminds me of the moment where president biden, when he was speaking about infrastructure at one point, pulled out this card that listed a number of republicans who were sort of touting infrastructure even though they were pushing back on the idea of getting infrastructure. so you have just today the republican national committee chairwoman saying this is reckless spending, saying that president biden is going to -- he's going to regret the fact that he pushed through this bipartisan infrastructure bill
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and signed it into law. now you have republicans realizing that americans who are in the middle of a pandemic, in the middle of paying more for everything saying at least the government is doing something for me. look no further than new hampshire where the president went today. you have an 80-year-old structure that's been on the repair list since 2014. the president rightly went there and said, look, this is the type of issue we want to solve. when you talk to political analysts t one thing they can agree on is that republicans and democrats have been really focussing on infrastructure saying they want to do this for a number of presidencies. here is president biden hoping this $1.2 trillion bill, that it helps him not only convince americans that the government is working for them but that his administration in particular is really an administration that should be getting their support as we see the president's poll numbers have been sinking. this is the white house trying to go on a tour. he will be in detroit tomorrow
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trying to convince americans, look at what we did for you. i think we're going to see more tweets like that. >> and coming right off your point, peter, a question that doesn't call for a judgment on your part but rather the democrats you're talking to by way of your daily reporting, is there still a messaging deficit? if you live in kingsburg, new jersey or iowa, are you any closer to knowing what you are going to get? i guess we know that new hampshire is getting a bridge and ohio is getting a bridge. but is there still that deficit? >> well, they're not going to accomplish this just in one or two days after the bill signing, right? this is going to, for them, have to be a sustained effort to sell this program to the public. now, they start off with an advantage, which is the public is generally for it. the last abc washington post poll showed that 63% of americans supported it.
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they want new bridges and they want their ports and airports and broadband. the same poll showed biden at 41%. they're not giving him credit for this accomplishment. so he wants to get out there. he wants to say look at what i'm doing. i'm finally delivering for you. this is what he promised in the campaign. he will have to do more than a couple stops this week to make that point. the bigger question for him is can he get the next bill through? if he doesn't turn this into momentum for the next bill, that becomes really problematic for him. >> chuck rosenberg, a legal question. when bannon raised the notion of privilege, everyone said right away, well, you weren't with the government. he had long since left on his journey of personal growth and personal grooming. mark meadows, however, was right there in it. he was right there in the oval office, alongside the president up until and including january
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6th. does he have a different privilege case? >> he has a different case, but there are two issues here, brian. one is does a former president have a residual privilege? the answer is theoretically yes according to a 1977 supreme court case, but practically no because the court also said in that case that whatever residual privilege a former president enjoys, it's really determined by the current president. we yield to that person because that person speaks for the republic and makes decisions on its behalf. that's issue number one. but there is a really important second issue, which is if bannon or meadows or anyone else for that matter, you and me, rely on the advice of an attorney in good faith and the attorney tells us something that turns out to be wrong, but we still believe her and we still act on her advice, we may have an
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advice of counsel defense. so that's something to look for in the bannon base, whether or not he relied on counsel. with respect to meadows, he may want to argue privilege. he may want to litigate privilege or have someone else litigate it by that decision. but it is not a completely frivolous case where someone like meadows, as you pointed out, who was part of the president's inner circle when he was president. i don't think the privilege claim actually survives, but it's not as frivolous as someone like bannon who was out of the white house and not a government employee asserting it. >> much to blijed to our starting line on a tuesday night. thank you to the three of you very much for starting us off. coming up, joe biden has a bridge repair he wants to sell now. how is that effort going? our political experts will weigh into that. and later the proud new england state that beat covid until it didn't. what went wrong? and what can the rest of the
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country learn from the soaring infection rates there now and in other parts of our country. all of it as "the 11th hour" is just getting underway on this tuesday night with thomas jefferson in the distance. kevin! kevin? kevin. oh nice. kevin, where are you? kevin?!?!? hey, what's going on? i'm right here! i was busy cashbacking for the holidays with chase freedom unlimited. i'm gonna cashback on a gingerbread house! oooh, it's got little people inside! and a snowglobe. oh, i wished i lived in there. you know i can't believe you lost another kevin. it's a holiday tradition! that it is! earn big time with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours.
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because that's why i ran. that's why these folks ran. it is about building or taking care of their legitimate needs and to make sure democracy delivers for everybody. and despite the cynics, democrats and republicans, we can work together.
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we can deliver real results. we can deliver real people results that are going to affect their lives. >> on a snowy day in new england, in case anyone missed the point, the president walked across an old bridge during his road trip to new hampshire today. it is a victory lap for his bill when a speed bump in the road is getting closer and closer. schumer says the goal is a vote by christmas, but that only makes us want to check out joe manchin's pocket calendar. here is how "the new york times" puts it. quote, after completing the signing ceremony for the $1 trillion infrastructure bill, mr. biden returns to a much harsher reality, historically low approval ratings, unified republican opposition to the centerpiece of his domestic policy, growing alarm in the party about the prospect of losing control of the congress next year and a surprising surge in inflation. put it that way, it sounds serious. back with us, veteran political
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strategist and veteran washington journalist, associate editor and columnist over at "real clear politics." good evening to you both. how much pressure is on democrats elected members of congress to pass that second bill? >> let me just put it this way. they hear every time the clock ticks down. they're feeling the weight of time running out on them, especially ahead of the midterms and they know they have to deliver. i think what was truly a helpful indicator about the need to deliver was that washington post, abc poll that shows 63% of people supporting the bipartisan bill. 58% support the build back better plan. but 51% would still vote for republicans. i think that ties to the fact that democrats know they have to move quickly to pass this legislation so that people feel the tangible benefits, people feel and see the impact in their day-to-day lives ahead of next
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november. and, so, the sooner they pass this better. and you are hearing that urgency not only in the time line you mentioned that schumer made but also from speaker pelosi to keep people through thanksgiving if she has to in order to get this bill out of the house because they know people want it. they know they have to deliver on it and also that people have to feel it so that democrats can have some type of advantage going into the midterms. >> so, a.b., nation turns its lonely eyes to you. what are the chances they will pass that bill by christmas? >> well, brian, unfortunately any time you say by christmas, you're admitting that it could slip into the new year. they have a bunch of perilous deadlines coming up with government funding and -- and the increaing of the debt ceiling by december 3rd. that's really in legislative days with thanksgiving around the corner.
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legislative days are the time that members of congress spend here, and it is not a lot. so if you say by christmas, unfortunately, combined with senator joe manchin's stated -- publically stated desire to kick this into next year, it is making democrats nervous this could slip into january. this is extremely challenges once it goes to the senate. will it get to the house really quickly the next week or so? probably. they will fall into line over on the house side as the speaker wishes and do this before they leave for thanksgiving. it's when it gets to the senate that it will be revisited. and we don't know which programs will actually kick in, if they make it into the final draft before the midterm elections. will voters feel different provisions that democrats are tauting right now in the bill that are popular with voters. all of this is up to a 50/50 senate and dealing with those hold-out senators once its over
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there. no, we do not know what will be in the final bill. we don't know if those programs will be felt by voters by the mid-term elections. we don't know if it will be voted on by christmas. this is really a tough time for democrats. they were excited about celebrating yesterday. no small thing that it was bipartisan. five republican senators were at the white house for this infrastructure signing. but they have stomach aches right now about the build back better fight going forward. >> indeed, they do. and jaunita, a lot of it keeps coming back to messages. why can't the white house, serious question, hire an ad executive, an ad agency, a television producer, someone with a specialty in selling, someone with a specialty in communication, selling things to, oh, i don't know all 50 states? >> look, i think they're
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definitely relying on a lot of the democratic campaign committees to help with a lot of that work. but what you can fully expect to see is what we saw from today with the president walking across that bridge. but also applying it to every other piece of investment that will come from the bipartisan deal that people will feel a tangible impact, whether that's getting access to the internet or getting access to clean water, whether that's the ports getting cleaned up quicker. port capacity has increased by 30%. things are moving. investments and freights and making sure that products get to the store so people have adequate selection to choose from. that's what this will come down to and that's what we need to hear not only from the president as he continues his tour but all his cabinet members, mayors and governors. he had those mayors as well because they know the value of this in their own communities, and the more messengers he has out there the better because this needs to be a consistent
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drum beat not just this week but i'm talking about every single day until the mid-term election until voters know exactly what to expect, who to expect it and who to thank for you. >> our guests have agreed to stay with us over this break. coming up, when we continue our conversation, new reporting on how the republican leader in the house is trying to tamp down divisions in his party that are being caused by the man most people regard as mccarthy's boss. cough cough sneeze sneeze... [ sneezing ] needs, plop plop fizz fizz. alka seltzer plus cold relief.
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new reporting tonight is shining a light on gop leader kevin mccarthy's efforts to get his own party in line in the wake of the bipartisan vote on infrastructure. some far right members as we have reported have started going after their fellow republicans who had the ta marty to vote to bring infrastructure back to their districts. at a closed door house republican caucus meeting, mccarthy called on leaders to stay unified, not to attack their republican colleagues. mccarthy suggested they should focus on democrats build back better bill, one of the sources said. fortunately still with us, our panel. our mutual friend as a column that argues it is the republicans who are in embarrassing disarray, not the democrats. do you concur with that thesis? >> well, i think that, yes, the
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republican show continues and torques into new embarrassing form on a monthly basis. it is certainly a hot mess. but the focus in this town and on the national news for the last couple of months after the withdrawal from afghanistan has been the democrats fighting with each other and not able to meet their deadlines for when they promised the bills were going to come out of the house and senate and get passed. and this extension and this negotiation and this promise. and this standoff. this has been the focus that has taken all the heat off the republicans as they continue to have internal squabbles about moving forward with or without donald trump and then the loudest members on the right who in service to donald trump, you know, create all these scandals, including the congressman who
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sent out this video where he is killing another member of congress in what he said was just sort of a cartoon and he was using to appeal to young people. however, they take this every time they have these meetings like today where kevin mccarthy gets up in a family fight and tries to take everybody's side and doesn't resolve anything, they basically snore about this. they don't think it's reaching persuadable voters. they don't think that it takes -- it is getting much notice. they feel that the majority next year is in hand. they're going to win no matter what. and, so, none of this really is material the way that it made them a bit more nervous before the 2020 election. now they sort of think, you know, our voters don't notice. swing voters don't notice. it doesn't matter. we will take the house back and the democrats continue getting bad headlines.
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and bad polling. and so, you know, no big. >> juanita, i'm very curious as someone, that being you, who watches the democrats so closely, especially in the house of representatives. i noted the latest retirement is congresswoman jackie spear of the bluer than blue democratic delegation from the state of california. and in addition to having seniority and being an outspoken member, she has such a unique story among members of congress. by our unofficial count, she has survived more gunshots than any other elected official in washington. she was left for dead on the tarmac in jonestown. her boss, the congressman, was the one conducting the investigation. she later was able to run for and win that seat. it gives her a certain moral
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authority and especially on the issues that are dear to her. and i'm just curious, on top of all the pressure on the democrats in 2022 and we're not necessarily talking about a safe democratic district like this one. you must be counting down to the last noses, hoping for no more retirements, especially in swing districts and hoping a few things break your way. >> i think that's exactly right, brian, in terms of just trying to hold the line as much as possible, recognizing how republicans in state houses across the country have essentially rigged the system with redirecting and gerrymandering just starts beyond recognition in order to secure some type of majority for republicans. but you are absolutely right. i think taking the fight across the country to every district, every state is a strategy that democrats are looking to deploy this midterm cycle. and that's something that
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hopefully could yield some type of returns. and i'm not talking about necessarily securing additional seats versus maintaining as many seats as possible. i also think that to the point ab made about republicans being a mess, i think that mess is going to continue. and that extremism that left a stamp through trump and through the folks that mccarthy knows he can't reel in could leave a bad taste in voters mouth especially if president trump moves forward with his plan to challenge some republicans in the house who voted for the infrastructure bill or to continue to poison the republican party with his extremist approach and let's be real violent rhetoric that a number of them have adopted. and that could ultimately lead to republicans undermining themselves in the midterms as well. >> as chris cristie is finding out on his bookstore, you can't simply waive away from the
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modern republican party has become and pretend that it can be altered or changed with the waive of a hand. i can't thank you enough. terrific conversation tonight. thank you for your forthright answers to our questions. coming up, one of our top public health experts on what we need to know about surging covid cases in some areas of our country. of course, timed right before families get together for the holidays. her for the holidays (man 2) definitely higher. (man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. you get more with aarp medicare advantage plans
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the latest counts is now into the 80s. >> take it from the man who has been attacked for being a scientist. nbc news data showing over half of our country now seeing an uptick in new cases. over the past two weeks, new cases in the state of vermont have jumped 60%. and across new england, cases have risen in every state but connecticut. back with us tonight, at a critical time, founding director of columbia's national center for disaster preparedness. he advises us on national health. he's a professor of pediatrics at albert einstein college of medicine. as no one needs to remind you, vermont was a model of mitigation in new england. they are currently reporting a 72% vaccination rate. so can you tell us why the resurgence there? and if it's happening there, god forbid states like north and south dakota, mississippi,
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alabama and the like. >> right. we're in a very, very precarious situation as far as what we might be
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