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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  November 16, 2021 4:00pm-5:00pm PST

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soon because the entire united states house will actually vote on centering congressman paul gosar over a social media post but this is what he tried to do putting out this actual cartoon that showed him personally killing aocasio-cortez. the resolution would also remove gosar from the over sight committee. "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> thank you very much. have a great evening. all right. good evening. we begin "the reidout" with two cases that will once genital us where we are as a country where armed white men can continue to take matters into their own hands and serve as judge, jury and executioner legally under the law. there is the trial of teenage vigilante kyle rittenhouse where jurors just moments ago broke for the day, and the trial of father and son greg and travis
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mcmichael and their neighbor rodney william bryant stand accused of murdering 25-year-old ahmaud arbery in what many are calling a modern day lynching. the men claim this is a citizen's arrest gone wrong. today arbery's mother had to witness horrifying autopsy photos of her son. she walked out. the family is receiving moral support from faith leaders and jesse jackson was asked to be removed from the courtroom as done with the reverend al sharpton. >> jesse jackson, i believe is still here. >> he is, your honor, i think we know an icon in the civil rights movement, not just a witness to it, he -- the personification of it and in other circumstances, i think everybody would be happy to have their picture taken and have an autograph but in the context of this trial we object to his public presence in the gallery of the courtroom. i guess the next question is
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what pastor is next? is raphael warnock next person appearing this afternoon? >> the judge denied the defense's request to remove the reverend jesse jackson from the courtroom. late this afternoon the state rested the case against the three men, now comes the defense's turn. meanwhile in kenosha wisconsin the jury in the case had been deliberating since this morning. rittenhouse shot and killed 36-year-old joseph rosenbaum and 26-year-old anthony huber and shot gaige grosskreutz and rittenhouse said he was a tourist and denied the interaction with rosenbaum that set into action the chain of events that night in august of last year. since then rittenhouse is a right wing hero. mark and patricia, the st. louis couple pardoned by donald trump when president for aiming guns at black lives matter protesters, well, they've showed up the past two days to support
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rittenhouse. they claimed that the teenager who mind you shot and killed two people is the real victim. the victim of cancel culture. and another weird twist, rittenhouse actually participated in choosing the final 12 men and women who will decide his fate by pulling numbers from a tumbler like a game show. the six he chose became alternates. here is how that looked like. >> please put them in the tumbler and rotate it and the defendant will draw out six of the numbers. >> members of the jury, it is for you to determine whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty of each of the offenses charged. >> now, there is a very real possibility that he would face an all white jury but after that drawing, four white men, one black man and seven white women will decide whether he is
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innocent or not, whether it's guilty or not guilty. joining us from kenosha, shaquille brewster. shaq, can you give us a sense of what the scene looked like in and around the courtroom today? >> reporter: well, joy, you saw a steady flow of protesters outside of the courtroom about two dozen or so they about an hour or so went around kenosha or at least this downtown area marching. i should also note it's not just protesters or people who are protesting against kyle rittenhouse but you also have people who are here to support kyle rittenhouse and say he was acting in his self-defense and saying that he was the victim in this case. we do know that in just the past couple of moments, joy, the court is out of session. the jury broke. they are going home for the night. they will return at 9:00 a.m. central time tomorrow. they deliberated or at least have been away for about eight hours today as part of their deliberations and we didn't get that many tea leaves from the
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messages and the notes that came from the jury. we did get a sense of earlier in the day that they did ask for more copies of the jury instructions, which go on for about 36 pages. they initially asked for a section of them and then asked for full copies. they had a lunch for an undetermined period of time, they had pizza. outside of that we don't know what is going on behind closed doors but the deliberations will extend into tomorrow, joy. >> real quick, shaq, you've been talking to people outside of the jury, what's the sense of people's sort of prediction? because i think in general there is a lot of criticism particularly along african-americans but i wonder the people protesting against what rittenhouse did, do they think he will be convicted just talking to you? >> reporter: frankly, they don't. part of this is pushing they think they want to push and pressure the jury or pressure the court to hold kyle rittenhouse accountable in their words.
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we spoke to some business owners yesterday and, you know, one thing that we heard from them, some business owners who were affected by the protests turned riots back in last august after the shooting of jacob blake, one thing that they said while some of them decided to board up their windows one more time. they said while they think kyle rittenhouse came to kenosha to start trouble and don't have favorable opinions of kyle rittenhouse, they believe he shouldn't be found guilty by this court or by this jury. so you do have a mixture of opinions there but the sense and the sense among even those who are opposed to this and who want to see him held accountable is that it's a high bar that the prosecution is going to have to clear. >> shaquille brewster, thank you very much. you always do a great job. appreciate you. joining me is katy fang and paul butler, former federal prosecutor and georgetown low professor. we've been doing this a couple days. i want to get your sense of this jury has been out for a day now
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and i'll start with you first on this as a former prosecutor, paul, do you expect this to be a long process? there are a lot of counts here. we'll put those up on. there are five counts that have to be considered here. you can see they go from first degree murder all the way down to the lesser included charges like second degree attempted intentional homicide. what do we take from how long this jury is out and do you expect it to be a lengthy deliberation? >> so, we know either way it's not a slam dunk for the jury. sometimes jurors get the instructions. they go back in the room and have a sense of what they want to do. but this is a complicated case and the judge's presentation of the jury instructions was so confusing that i don't blame the jurors for wanting the judge to put it on paper. there were pages and pages and so the jurors have a lot of work ahead of them. >> and katy, can you please
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explain this weird lottery? i've never heard of this where the defendant gets to basically reach into a bowl, you know, like we do our secret santa at home and pick his jury. i've never heard of that. is that a thing? >> well, we know it actually unusual -- oh, we know it was actually unusual, joy, because normally the clerk does that. you don't let the defendant participate in this process, and from where i'm from, the trials i've done, what happens is when you're an alternate, you get excused. good-bye. so you know who the alternates are and they're excused. this random bingo that happened today was just another proversion that happened in this judge's courtroom so the fact that rittenhouse, the judge allowed him to do this was another bizarre thing that's happened. i'm glad to hear they had pizza and not asian lunch because i don't know what the judge would have said about lunch today if
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it was asian lunch again. >> he had interesting thoughts about asian lunch. interesting. that and his phone going off with the song played at trump rallies. we won't go into that too deeply. there is a mistrial motion hanging over this. can you explain how there is a mistrial motion hanging while judges are deliberating. >> the judge is deciding what to do. presumably he'll decide at some point before the jury returns its verdict but there is lots of reasons to be concerned about this judge. when he allowed mr. rittenhouse an accused murderer to select the jurors, again, objectively by pulling names out of a hat, it was cute, joy, but the criminal legal system is not looking for the judge in a double-murder trial to do cute things. the public rightly expects the appearance of justice and impartiality and on that level, this judge consistently disappoints from his joke about asian food to all of the breaks that he's given the defense.
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there is a pattern of bias that is troubling. at this moment, kyle rittenhouse is innocent in the eyes of the law but as long as the judge appears to be tipping the scales of justice in rittenhouse's favor, the public may not have confidence in the process or the verdict. >> that's a question i had too, kate. is there any resource? this judge has done everything but offer to adopt kyle rittenhouse. he seems so clearly on his side, does the prosecution have any recourse if it seems so clear that the judge is already made up his mind that kyle rittenhouse, he's on -- it seems at least to the layperson out there that he's completely on his side. >> yes, so the real challenge if you're the prosecution is if the verdict comes back acquittal double jeopardy comes attached that you've sworn in this jury. when it comes for a motion of mistrial for prejudice, i'm glad
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you brought it up. if it's granted, the prosecution can appeal the granting of that motion for a mistrial with press -- prejudice when normally you don't have recourse. again, if the motion is denied, the defense can actually raise those same arguments on appeal if there is a conviction and so there is a little window for the prosecution to be able to try to find some success but when you also think about the fact that the judge has kind of fed the flames of the poiticalization of this trial, when you see people like the couple, what the judge has done, it makes you wonder where has the some gone? the reality is having cameras in the courtroom have allowed america to see what's happening, what's happening in the courtrooms because it important for them to see what is going on. >> the absolute difference between the way justice is served to people of color and
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people who are white. i don't know how it could be clearer than this. we'll talk about another case later in the show. paul, there is the question of the consultants, right? one of the consultants a jury expert hired by the defense team and if you know that name seems familiar to you, it's because she helped o.j. simpson select jurors. if your family has the resources to hire a really good jury consultant, in a sense, that's the game. that's the ball game, right? >> it helps. some people say they're hocus pocus and some say it's the difference between whether he walks or goes to prison and in someways that process was limited because that jury selection process was so quick. it took a day to pick this jury as opposed to the two and three weeks it took in the case of
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ahmaud arbery's killers in georgia and the chauvin trial in minnesota. it's a business. the defense will hope that the juror selection experts help them get not an objective jury but a jury bias in their favor but again, the judge seems to be doing some of that work so they may not even need these extra folks. >> it is, it is stunning, katy, this feels like the cases in the 1950s where it was in and out, in and out, you know, somebody white male killed someone and they were in and out fast and acquitted. that's how it feels to me. >> yeah, i feel like people will be dishonest if you're to say that it would be the same result if it was a young black male carrying an ar-15 on the streets. you're being dishonest intellectually, socially, every single way if you say it would be the same outcome.
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he would have been dead if it was a young black male holding an ar-15. when you have a situation by all accounts, this is how the judge acts by the way. they said this is how he is and how he acts. he's the longest serving judge in this circuit. he's 75. maybe it's time there is another judge. but fundamentally, you don't want to see the deck stacked against you either way prosecution or defense. it's supposed to be justice is blind and i don't see that happening in this case now. >> and he's been reelected, elected unopposed in 2020 i understand. i don't think he had an opponent. this is why you have to vote. the judge ballot, you need to vote for that. you need to vote on that. katy fang, paul butler, thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout" president biden is promoting the infrastructure but will built back better get left in the dusk? congresswoman jayapal is joining
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me next and despicable attacks on vice president kamala harris but that's to be expected. what about the biden team? are they setting her up to fail? also, in two days oklahoma is set to execute julius jones who just might be innocent. his mother madeleine who the governor refuses to talk to joins me tonight. plus, tonight's absolute worst. defending the likes of aname defense fantasy paul gosar and dressing down lawmakers for helping constituents. "the reidout" continues after this. constituents "the rdoeiut" continues after this about retirement his personalized plan is backed by the team at fidelity. his ira is professionally managed, and he gets one-on-one coaching when he needs it. so ben is feeling pretty zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity oh, man that is wrinkly. like, not even just a little wrinkly, that's a whole lot of wrinkly.
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comcast business. powering possibilities. president biden hit the road today to promote the eisenhower style infrastructure bill he signed into law yesterday. kicking off an administration wide blitz to sell to the american people. biden's message today speaking from an ageing bridge in new hampshire deemed structurally
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deficient said results are on the way. >> clean water, access to the internet, rebuilding bridges and everything in this bill matters to individual lives of real people. this is not something abstract. new hampshire and america are moving again. your life will change for the better. that's literal. >> he's right. there are things that affect and impact all americans, money for roads and bridges, clean water and clean energy. president biden is -- while president biden is comuicaing how that will benefit you and it will democrats in congress have the challenge of making sure the other part of his agenda, the build back better bill with new social spending to benefit women and children and families and people of color that that doesn't again thrown by the wayside. the house is on pace for a build back better bill after separating it to get the plan through with a hand full of republicans and moderate democrats and updated congressional budget office
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score to ensure it's paid for, demand of those house moderates is expected on friday. for her part, house speaker nancy pelosi told members they will not leave washington for the thanksgiving recess without getting build back better over the finish line. one of the risks when house democrats separated the bills is that one would get left behind so now the challenge is to make sure that doesn't happen. joining me is congresswoman pramila jayapal, chair of the congressional caucus. great to have you on the show, congresswoman. i want to start by acknowledging the scope and scale of this bill that passed is a big deal. i mean, lawrence o'donnell pointed out there is no other president with a t, trillion infrastructure bill investing ever including eisenhower. this is a huge deal. so i want to acknowledge that. i want to acknowledge that. the risk of taking the
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monumental important thing to benefit people and taking off the part to help the women and young people, that big thing becomes the only thing left and so i wonder you as the person you did oppose separating them, how hopeful are you that this second half is going to get also to be a big deal? >> yeah, yeah, joy, so great to see you and you laid it out as you always do, and let me just start by saying the infrastructure bill really is a big deal. trump said for four years that he was going to get infrastructure done. he never got infrastructure done. >> look out. >> president biden has gotten infrastructure done and it's a big deal. it's like for me money to restore the puget sound and getting clean water and lead pipes replaced. it's our bridges that are crumbling. it's so important things and
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$380 million for my state for public transit. there is a lot in there. now, we didn't want to separate them because we didn't want to leave anybody behind. 85% of the president's agenda is in the build back better act. because the progressive caucus said we're not leaving anybody behind, we went from having no build back better act, no negotiation, no text, no nothing to now having a vote in the house this week. it will be this week. it will be before friday because that was the agreement we made and the commitment we got and then we have the president's word that he is confident he can get 51 votes in the senate. i heard him say today he's hoping that can happen very quickly. i see no reason why it can't move in the senate within a week or two of us sending it over to the senate. hopefully, joy, we'll have a very big fat christmas present that is about universal child care, universal prek, the biggest investment in housing
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you and i have talked about how that's a racial justice issue. one of the things that's escaped under the radar that i wanted to bring up for you is that within the climate change provisions, the progressive caucus prioritized what we call ej 40. environmental justice 40 meaning 40% of the out lays for climate should go to the most disproportionately affected and the set asides in build back better we were able to get are really fantastic for folks of color, indigenous people across this country, poor people across this country. we're not only taking on climate change but we're doing it with the values that are about centering those who have been disproportionately affected. we'll have that vote this week, joy. that's what we negotiated. i'm so proud of the progresz -- progressive caucus for not letting this go and leaving people behind. >> people like cori bush are getting the crap kicked out of them on social media, which isn't the real world.
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that's got to hurt. they have been articulating why they are taking this really firm stand and, you know, let me just play cori bush. she's explaining eye she has taken this stand she's taken. she was on tv earlier today. let's play that. >> being fiscally responsible has to start with how you save lives and so that is the word. so i'm just urging all of our colleagues to look at this and see what's in these bills and decide humanity over profits, humanity over property of corporations, humanity over your own ambition. >> and just really quick, i want to play senator joe mansion. there is a lack of trust among progressive members of your caucus. you got to think about humanity, humanity, humanity. here is joe mansion. the guy you got to win over in the senate. here he is. >> do you believe the argument this will lower inflation? do you buy that argument?
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>> i haven't heard any specifics on that one. lower? >> they say it will lower inflation. >> i have to check on that one. i don't know. >> you add to the fact much of what is in the big infrastructure bill will be administered. if you're in oklahoma or south carolina, you really believe these republican governors will distribute the benefits of the infrastructure bill in a way that will help people of color? come on now. that's the problem. there is a lot of having to trust the states and you have a man bill to employ men and the bill for the women, the women, the people of color that are left to decide. do you have trust? yes, you trust the president. yes, you're putting your trust in him but do you trust the joe mansions of the world and the kyrsten sinemas of the world to do their share? >> well, look, i do and it's not a blind trust, right? like this is something that was essentially largely preconferenced, this build back
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better about. that's why we had to accept a cut from the top line number that we originally had. what we did is we were still able to get every caucus priority into the build back better act, not what we would have liked with more votes in the senate and house. we need joe mansion and kyrsten sinema and progressives, we need everybody. that's the reality of where we are. what the president did was he negotiated with senator sen ma, with senator mansion, i spoke with both and believe that the vast majority of this bill is preconferenced and that joe mansion will come along, kyrsten sinema will come along. it's the democratic agenda and most importantly, it is about humanity. it is about helping people to get what every other country in the world has on many of these
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things and it's about delivering on climate change, right? we just kale back from cop 26 and said the united states is committed to reducing carbon emissions, to being a leader in climate. this is the bill, joy. not the infrastructure bill. this is the bill that delivers on climate. so i think that i do feel very good about where we are. i can't say that that would have been the case six weeks ago. >> yeah. >> had we not held the line but what we got was we did get the infrastructure bill passed and we got the commitment that we would get this vote in the house this week and then it would quickly go to the senate. so, you know, look, i think we have to continue to deliver for people and we're not leaving anybody behind and that's i think that's what the progressive caucus has been able to do. that's what you've been highlighting on your show. these are jobs that are going to women, to folks of color. they are good, people talk about the infrastructure bill as a jobs bill and it is. it creates a lot of good union
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jobs, so does build back better, in fact, more jobs and more living wage johns for caregivers and people of color, for poor people across this country and really investments in things that will pay off for the long run. >> exactly. you guys have taken care of the guys, take care of the women and people of color. we trust you because we love having you on the show and you're always giving us great information. congresswoman pramila jayapal, thank you. >> cheers. >> coming up is vice president kamala harris being set up to fail? the white house is rallying with her but do they really have her back? we'll discuss when we come back. back we'll discuss when we meco back. at fidelity, your dedicated advisor will work with you on a comprehensive wealth plan across your full financial picture. a plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. this is the planning effect. is struggling to manage your type 2 diabetes designed to help you keep more of what you earn. knocking you out of your zone? lowering your a1c with once-weekly ozempic®
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take the mystery out of your glucose levels, and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free. visit freestylelibre.us what happens when the fox news propaganda machine covers an asian black president, sexism and birther ris m of course. >> there is a lot we don't know about kamala harris. she grew up in canada and went to high school. she's not from this country in that sense. by the way, how did someone who clearly is not liked by the people around her and clearly isn't very good at her job get so high up? we know her first meaningful job in politics was given to her by her boyfriend at the time. >> she sounds a lot like meghan markle to be honest with you. both of these are very entitled
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people who claim victim class and the fact is, normal people are fed up with this seriously fed up with this. >> isn't ted cruz from canada? that is fox news trying to hillary clinton their next target four years before the golden god runs for autocrat, sorry, president. media outlets siting dysfunction and lack of focus inside the vice president's office and her staff. heavy scrutiny of harris because of her race and gender is constant. we seen it since the former senator ran for president but we also know that harris portfolio includes a lot of tough thorning issues blocked, pushed to the back burner or impossible to resolve and that says a lot more about the people around her than about kamala harris. joining me, white house correspondent for pbs news hour and associate professor of political science. it was like a flood of naval
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gazing stories that were sort of leakish based at once from cnn, from politico all at once in a flood yesterday. what do you make of that? what is going on? the fox news stuff is expected. that is just their brand. what is happening in terms of the white house? >> well, it's a great question and i think there are multiple ways to answer this. the first is i know you're asking what is going on in the white house. we have to pause for birtheristm 2.0. >> hello. >> yeah, go. questioning whether or not vice president harris is from this country, has an alliance to america when she's an american woman born here, it to me is just really blows my mind that we've sort of arrived back here. we already had this fight and stupidness. apart from that when you talk to white house officials and sources, there are two things going on which is there are
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democrats very worried about her staff that feel like she's not really being supported in the right way that her job sort of is still dealing with sort of the aftermath of her failed run for president and there are real dysfunction there. a few minutes ago when you break a glass ceiling you'll get cut meaning this is part of what happens when you rise to the top especially when you're the first woman vice president you have a lot of income and also this person said when you're vice president, you get handed this stuff that is hard to do. joe biden also had his own issues with sort of not being able to finish and to make headway on some of the issues that he had as vice president but i think that if you marry those two things, there is real dysfunction, some real anger at her from her staff, some real dysfunction within the white house but also there is this case where people feel like she's being targeted because she's first. >> the thing is christina, there is a sense that on the one hand it's obvious that when you put a
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black woman particularly a black woman with immigrant heritage that triggers all the things on the right, right? it's obvious they always want to have another hillary clinton. that's their wheelhouse to constantly attack some powerful woman they're afraid might be president one day. again, that's why i said that's expected. that's their brand. but the thing that i hear from folks who love kamala harris and so excited for her to be president is they look around and say hang on a second. how did she get handed all the things that wound up getting junked? the white house backed off on voting rights, that's her portfolio. the white house has essentially backed off on police reform. tim scott basically threw that over the side. that's gone. that is in her portfolio. she gets handed the talking points don't come and now immigrant, you know, supporters of immigration are attacking her. she was echoing the policy but she's the one that got to say that. she keeps on drawing the hand of things that don't have public support or that are impossible.
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your thoughts on that? >> it's a trap. literally every policy issue we've not been able to resolve as a nation, democrats and republicans is on the docket of kamala harris whether immigration on the boarder or policing, voting rights, you name it. the list goes on and on. i said she has the portfolio of give it to mikey. it's one thing where she can't win. literally no matter what she does if she makes some headway on this, there will be a significant number of democrats and republicans displeased with her. part of it is the trap of being a vice president. we also know she's also a black woman of the workplace. so she's always had these issues of personnel talking out of school, you know, we can talk about whether or not these are credible conversations or if it's just this issue of a very powerful black woman who is given a portfolio and she's trying to do her best knowing
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that joe biden may or may not run. we know that if joe biden decides not to run, kamala harris will not be there. we know every single random senator, governor, member of the house, mayor, you name it male will try and throw his hat in the ring and leap frog a vice president and will have a pretty significant democratic primary situation but i think some of, you know, we need to be fair. some of these critiques may policy critiques may be something you want to look into especially if joe biden decides not to run in 2024 but we know the attacks john mccain was born in panama as far as i'm concerned. >> ted cruz. >> the birthirism, she's the immigrant of not one but two parents and a woman that's child free and married to a jewish american and the thing republicans fear and we see them resulting in really insidious insulting attacks that they've
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had since day one and unfortunately, she has to do her job while reflecting from that. >> and i wonder when you talk to sources do democrats understand the potential for huge backlash here? if the black woman gets left holding the bag, she should have picked transportation secretary or been the attorney general because those are places she could have actually shined attorney general would have been a good big and maybe she could prosecute folks and go after them. you know, the backlash if she gets thrown under the bus will be huge among black women and they need black women to vote for them. >> that's right. that's absolutely right. when we talked to democratic sources, as well as white house sources they understand who she is as the first black woman to hold this position as the child of immigrants that she is the face of the democratic base when they talk about the future of their party and the culture and experienced and in someways claiming her power. the problem is when you actually
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talk to pollsters, there is an issue of her sort of popularity among african americans. let's remember there was a democratic primary and joe biden got more support among black people than she did. it's something you have to talk about when you talk about vice president harris. that doesn't mean there isn't going to be a backlash. it doesn't mean black women in this country are like you better treat this black woman right in office. there is this thing she'll have to deal with. it's her issue to fix as president of the united states and something she'll have to endear herself and i'm african-american and understand and i went to howard but also, what will you do and what do you have to show for me? sending her to the border to say don't come here and her forcefully talking about the haitian migrant crisis leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. hamstring her but she pushed back at those images but there are people who want her out there more talking more about black people's issues. >> we shall see. this will be a conversation
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people will have at least in my circle. it will be interesting as it continues. you guys are great. thank you very much. up next, time is running out for julius jones with the governor refusing to grant clemency with a case riddled with problems from the start. jones' mom joins me to talk about the case ahead of thursday's scheduled execution. stay with us. thursd'say scheduled execution stay with us rp medicare advantage plans from unitedhealthcare. like $0 copays on tier 1 and tier 2 prescription drugs. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ $0 copays on primary care visits. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ and with unitedhealthcare, you get access to medicare advantage's largest provider network. ♪ wow! ♪ ♪ uh-huh. ♪ most plans even have a $0 premium. so go ahead. take advantage now. ♪ wow! ♪ knowing where you came from, it gives you a sense of “this is who i am”. oh my goodness... wow, look at all those! you get hungry for more and then you're just like,
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there is not much more you can say about how different the criminal justice system is for white and black people in america than if you look at the rile rittenhouse and julius jones cases. on one side rittenhouse has lucked out with a judge who seems to openly favor his team. on the other side is julius jones tried for murder more than 20 year s ago and barely got a defense. the lawyer called zero witnesses and provided zero defense arguments and admitted he was inexperienced and had no idea
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what he was doing. in both cases, there was only one black juror was chosen. while rittenhouse will probably get acquitted, jones faces execution. he was convicted of murder and sentenced to death in 2002 but his team says everyday that would have exonerated him was never presented to the jury with cnn reporting that evidence is real jurors have come forward and indicated that this evidence might have changed the outcome of the case. the case is so mirky that a parole board called for clemency twice suggesting that jones may be innocent. with parole board chair adam luck saying in september i believe in depth penalty cases there should be no doubt and put simply, i have doubts in this case. i cannot ignore those doubts especially when the stakes are life and death. this comes as oklahoma's zeal for execution is facing renewed scrutiny after it botched the execution after a six-year moratorium. jones' family and supporters
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went to the governor's office asking for a meeting they didn't get though the governor met recently with jones' legal team. i'm joined by madeleine davis jones, julius jones' mother and journalist and host of the run 'til this podcast. mara, you alerted me to this case. i heard the name, seen it on twitter a couple of times but didn't know the story. it's not a very well-known case. walk us through how mr. jones has gone through this ordeal and what kind of a trial he received. >> yeah, so this is a case where we have the really unique circumstance of the parole board now having voted not once but twice to commute his sentence from death to life in prison so why did they take that extraordinary step? what led them to that? there were a lot of doubts of his guilt in this case. you have a college student when this crime was committed who had an alibi. he said he was at home having dinner with his family at the
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time this took place and his family corroborated that alibi. he did not match an eyewitness description of the shooter and one of his co-defendants who actually took a plea deal in exchange for his testimony reportedly later confessed to others that he was the actual shooter and that man walked free after serving 15 years. so you have this extraordinary circumstance where all of these doubts not only led the parole board to their vote twice now but also the victims' own girlfriend who was with him at the hospital as he laid dying from the fatal gunshot wound testified in julius' defense at the most recent parole board hearing. that's how extreme the circumstances are and yet, here we are two days out from the scheduled execution and the governor has not yet even responded to his own board's recommendation to commute this sentence and it's important to note that commuting the sentence is not a pardon. it doesn't nullify the jury's verdict, what it does do is make
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sure an innocent man is not executed. >> yeah, and thank you ms. madeleine davis jones. thank you for being here. apologize for having to relive this live on tv. but talk to us a little bit about your son. what is his state of mind? what is his state of point? >> his state of mind at this point he's hopeful. the last time i talked to him he was in good spirits. he encouraged me. and he's just trusting and believing in the system. and the lord. just believing. that the truth will set him free. >> you want to speak with the governor. he didn't speak with you. what would you like to say to him if the governor was willing to talk to you? >> at this point in time, i just like for him to look at as the
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house told him to look at the facts. actually look at them. and choose truth. grace and mercy. on my son. because my son is innocent. and every morning i can wake up and when i go to sleep at night i know where he was. he didn't do this. >> we have a tape of mr. jones at his clemency hearing. do we have that? >> can we play it? >> i don't -- i don't hear it. i will read what he said. i want the family to know i recognize their loss and they can heal. i hope the board gets to really examine who i am and not the fear of what people have been talking about me. the truth is i did not shoot that man. i was not involved in any way.
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i didn't even know he had been killed until after the fact. you have been covering this case for a really long time. and i wonder if there is an out cry locally. we haven't not seen it nationally. about mr. jones leading so close to the execution. >> there has been a tremendous amount of public out cry. a lot of it has been focussed on the immediate area. where he is serving his sentence. and where they are preparing to carry out the execution. it is starting to get nor national thanks to celebrities. kim kardashian this morning tweeted about the circumstances. i don't think it's getting the attention that it deserves to get. when you have a circumstance where the parole board hads taken the really unique step of voting to commute a sentence. twice. and the governor hasn't yet responded. and we are two days out from this scheduled execution. it is a really extreme circumstance. and there's no reason that his name shouldn't be trending right now. people should be talking about
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this. >> i hope that people will talk about it. please tweet about it. talk about it. call the governor. this is something that you can do to show your humanity. please do not kill this man. it's wrong. i want to thank you mrs. davis jones. thank you for bringing this to our attention. we'll be right back. thank you. thank you. ♪ my songs know what you did in the dark ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ so light 'em up, up, up light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ light 'em up, up, up ♪ ♪ i'm on fire ♪ ♪ oh-oh-oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh-oohohh ♪ ♪ in the dark, dark ♪ new cheetos boneless wings. exclusively at applebee's.
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the house gop conference had a meeting today. several out spoken republicans dressed down. 13 members of the caucus. they did something they find unforgivable. they didn't participate in the insurrection or pose a threat to democracy. they are the 13 republicans who support td the infrastructure bill. voting for better roads and bridges. for that they're in the hot seat. for daring to give joe biden a win. everyone gets to drive on and use. the house freedom caucus continues to vow retaliation against them. introducing a bill to remove one of them. on homeland security committee. house minority leader referred the motion to the republican steering committee. he said in the meeting today the 13 members will not be punished by the party. because now is not the time. you know who else they won't punish? after nine day of silence.
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trump's kevin spoke publicly about the appalling video he tweeted out to the base of right wing extremists. the video in which he indulges a sick fantasy of murdering a colleague. twitter labeled it hateful content. he took it down and made a statement he doesn't support violence. absent from the statement any actual rebuke of the conduct. not a word. behind closed doors he appeared to defend him. and his decision not to punish him. according to plit co. a reporter. he told his members they should be united on this. falsely claiming that democrats don't punish their own. in other words. he defended the violent fantasy porn. more vigorously than the 13 republicans who want better roads for the district. and the thing is it should be easy to condemn paul. after all he's one of the
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congressman implicate nd the planning of january 6. defended the insurrection as peaceful patriots. and openly with white supremacists and tweeted memes used by neoo nazis. they refuse to hold imaccountable. the democrats are voting on a bill tomorrow to censure hip. and remove him from the house oversight committee. all republicans give him a free pass. in washington. liz cheney is being exiled from her party in her state. the republican party voted to stop recognizing her as a republican. not because she's not conservative enough or trump enough. she has a 90% voting trump record. she opposes the big lie and tl thinks elections should count. how back ward and weird and extreep the republican party has
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become. they are more in favor of someone tweeting out a meme killing one of their colleagues. they think that's okay. but voting for infrastructure is bad. and unacceptable. because that goes against the party line. that is why they're the absolute worst. that is tonight's "the reidout." all in with chris hays starts now. tonight on all in. >> within the swing states. if you want to he can take military capability and place in the states and rerun an election in each state. >> new details on the length the trump team went to pressuring the pentagon to steal the election for him. and pushing bonkers theories about the head of the cia and server in germany. >> it is somehow related to this. i do not know whether good guys got it or bad guys got it. >> democrats move to republican sure republican for his threatening an may vid

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