tv Four Seasons Total Documentary MSNBC November 13, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
i don't even know how to explain 2020. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> it was a crazy, crazy year. >> bad things happen in philadelphia. bad things. >> former vice president joe biden to become the 46th president of the united states. >> i had no idea what we would be in for. >> i thought it was fake i thought my friends were messing with me. >> a philadelphia landscaping company has been thrust into the national spotlight. >> it was supposed to be anonymous. >> put me in shock to see my name on the president's twitter. we probably got thousands of calls. >> you have 950 new messages. >> we have a lot of haters. >> i remember asking, did we make a mistake? >> there were just way too many
trees. here is the other thing. and i think we'll discuss this with the board when we have a zoom. i'm marie siravo, i'm 65 and the president of four seasons total landscaping in philadelphia. we do ground maintenance, irrigation, seeding, flowers, snow removal. it's kind of boring. i think the most challenging part of starting the business and being in business was being woman-owned. nobody took you serious. you're on the property. you have cameras. >> yeah. >> our other maintenance men on other properties, they connect with us. we help them. they help us. if i had a dollar for every time i got asked, did i have a husband, i have a wonderful husband. he just had his business and i had mine. this is my life.
other than my family, this is my entire life. we want to make sure that if we do purchase this, it's meeting our needs and that we don't now also need another building. i have three boys. michael is the youngest. mike took on the general manager role. i had to let go a little bit because i want my hands in everything. >> how many people get a chance to go to work every day with their mother? >> we fix everything with food. this is part of our italian culture. >> some days are like phenomenal and some days she can't figure out how to use the printer and it's frustrating. >> mike, i need some help. >> we have some days where he forgets i'm his boss and i try not to use that card because i need him to learn everything in my head. >> i started from the very
bottom, being a laborer, learning everything to basically working underneath the supervisor and shadowing him. so i pretty much worked from the ground up. you get it, ground up? other than that, like that's not scheduled work. so -- >> basically, mike and sean run the daily operations. >> i really do depend on mike. we're partners with his mother in this business. >> sean and i met in college and he was an upperclassman. i looked up to him as like a role model. he was almost like a big brother to me. >> mike and i have been through a lot together. both personally and professionally. we are both in recovery, which is a big thing we have in common. >> if you can do it with somebody who has the same goals as you do, you become a better person on a daily basis. it makes it easier. >> they are like two old souls. they work together so well. i know they both have the company's best interest at heart. sometimes it takes a little, you
know, you've just got to back off and he comes around. so is this what people want to hear about in this documentary? >> the race to the white house has not been called for pennsylvania. >> confusing pennsylvania is going to be. >> president trump is still leading in that state by about 1-08 thousand votes. >> it wasn't a clear winner. it left everybody worried and stressed. >> philadelphia became ground zero. the convention center where the votes were being counted, crowds were gathering outside. trump supporters outside. biden supporters. they were facing off across the street. >> people dressing up as the constitution, as mailboxes, holding signs saying we the people. progressive, the slight conservative america in one place literally these two streets outside the philly convention center. trump's legal team turn up at
the philly convention center. pam goes to address the count and the count every vote protest across the street turn up the music really, really loud. ♪♪ so you cannot hear a word that pam says because it's completely overwhelmed by the sounds of beyonce. >> everybody was fighting at each other. every post and tweet and instagram you saw, people were arguing and it just was very uneasy. and then the phone call. >> my phone rang around 8:45 a.m. i was in a men's bible study in doylestown, pennsylvania. >> hello? >> so i didn't answer, and then my phone immediately rang again. so i excused myself and walked outside and it was a trump staffer. they were asking if we would be amenable to them having a press
conference at four seasons total landscaping. i thought, why not? >> by about 9:45 the deal was sealed. it's just insane. out of all places, it's here. >> we're a landscaping company. we're experts in ground maintenance, irrigation, seeding, planting. not press conferences. bogeys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooo...
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snie was there at the time of the worst nuclear accident in the history of the united states. >> it has not been revealed to the public before. >> my students discovered there had been a partial meltdown at a reactor. >> accidents, spills, releases. these activities went on for decades. >> its first time grace had cancer we were meeting families, which casually i said, where you from? how about that? we live around the corner. >> we are going to children's hospital los angeles, world-renowned hospital.
how is it that so many of us live nearby? >> hi to start wrestling with the fact that maybe our whole community had been hiding this giant secret. >> we need you to step in and protect us and protect our children. do the right thing. >> people like melissa will change the tide of this fight. >> i was shaking my hand. how dare you do this to my community? why would do you this to us? us? suddenly this tweet comes through from donald trump. lawyers press conference at four seasons philadelphia. i grabbed bags, mae made phone calls to the eder. >> i jump in my car and go down to the four seasons hotel in downtown philadelphia. >> i think i was at the door when the second tweet came through. four seasons landscaping, philadelphia. i think my reaction was one of you utter confusion. >> of course it's there. there is a landscaping there.
i thought, oh, yeah, it's the four seasons hotel. you know, the entrance area with the landscaping. >> my assumption was that he had mushed the keypad and typed the word landscaping. >> i got a phone call from the four seasons hotel and he said, marie, i have one question. are they coming to you or me? >> trump deletes the second tweet and a third tweet comes in. and it says, big press conference in philadelphia four seasons total landscaping. why would the president's lawyers hold a press conference at a landscaping company? >> this story starts with donald trump tweeting there would be a press conference on saturday morning at the four seasons in philadelphia. no, not the hotel. but four seasons total landscaping. it remains unclear whether the trump campaign booked it in error or not. >> why did you pick this place? it was a head-scratcher. this was just the beginning of how surreal this event was. >> it's not prominent. why is it here? i mean, you had more questions
than you could possibly have answered. >> with trump service always difficult to get answers about the truth. sometimes because people didn't know the often. often because they were lying. i spent weeks and weeks interviewing everybody i could and hitting dead end after dead end after dead end. nobody really knew how they ended up at a landscaping place. in a part of town that, you know, normally is not where campaigns host these things. i sent out to try to answer what i thought was a simple question. what the hell had happened? and the longer that i dug into it, the crazier and crazier it was. >> mistake or not, they held a press conference at the loading dock of the landscaper. here's what it looked like. that's quite an image. projects power. >> obviously, they screwed up. they called the wrong place and thought, let's just go with it. >> we are in an industrial strip
with a crematorium across the street and an adult video and bookstore up the street. >> there was a level of excitement among our staff that we would be hosting the president's campaign staff here. but that was quickly followed by dread. >> an obvious screw-up in booking but they played along, pretended that was the master plan. >> there are two different theories really that i had. other people, as well. one, i thought that maybe they had -- someone thought that they could book the four seasons hotel. someone on the campaign made the president think that it was a possibility that it would be held there and that, you know, once he tweeted that, they googled around and found that the closest thing called four seasons to the four seasons philadelphia happened to be this landscaping place. the other theory is it was a perfect storm of minor screw-ups from various people at various
levels of the campaign and somehow maybe through a connection or an accident they ended up here. >> i met the campaign staff here at about 9:30. it was a pretty quick setup. obviously, you saw what was on tv. i'm pretty proud of the space that we were able to curate in such a small amount of time. it was a landscape construction yard. >> normally, you might have police outside on the perimeter, but it was just private security. and they asked us to put our news organizations down on a clipboard and then they would call us in. and they made us look like it might be exclusive, like we might not all get called in. every time they called a news organization, the six to eight trump supporters would boo. >> request that republican -- the information -- -- the information -- >> i think the biggest part for
me was seeing giuliani pull up in two black suburbans. i thought i was dreaming. nobody famous has ever been here. and it was almost like in slow motion. like him walking into the office. >> i actually wasn't going to come here. and i got a phone call from my son anthony. he said, mom, this is bigger than we think. and he sends me a picture while i am talking to him. and rudy is sitting at my desk and the plaque in front of my desk says "boss lady." i looked at my husband and side, i think we need to get over there. >> i demand a fair election! >> we demand a fair election! >> there was a crowd of people with biden and trump supporters there. they were going back and forth with each other. and then the cops showed up and the entire front row was shut down. that's when it got, like, very
nerve-racking for me. >> it was overwhelming. so i just looked around. i looked at everybody. i tried to figure out who everybody was. the press conference was about to start. i stood on top of a trailer so i could see and i just watched. >> in the final weeks of the trump campaign officials told me that keeping rudy busy was a full-time job. they had to devise places to send him, specific aides to keep with him and that would make it so he was not running wild creating whack-a-mole problems for them. >> rudy giuliani is undermining confidence in the american election system and, therefore, undermining our national security. >> rudy giuliani was considered to be a great force of law and order. he was one of the heroes of 9/11. >> i think that's part of why it was so disturbing to watch him unravel and to watch him kind of debase himself and support of
this guy who they thought he was better than. >> do you have any idea that the state department -- >> they know the libel -- >> shut up, moron. shut up. you don't know what you're talking about. you don't know what you're talking about, idiot. >> he was kind of a mess. but he was always around and he was always loyal and that was the only thing that really seemed to matter to the president. >> he is a great guy. he knows it's a witch hunt. that's what he knows. he seen a lot of them. >> rudy followed his press coverage closely and he was very aware of what the view was in mainstream circles. >> he was nothing but respectful to us when he was here. shook our hands, took pictures with us, greeted all the cops. but, you know, i think going on tv, i don't know if, you know, something changes. >> he once told me, my view of my legacy is, quote, [ bleep ] it. >> wow, what a beautiful day. thank you for coming. so i'm here on behalf of the
trump campaign as an attorney for the president. to describe to you the first part of a situation that is extremely trouble. >> rudy giuliani comes out and launches into this speech about how the election was stolen and how there are grave allegation of fraud. he has witnesses behind him. >> people who have seen alleged fraud. people who will be testifying in lawsuits. he presents this guy darrell brooks, later learn that he has exposed himself to children underage. >> it became clear pretty quickly there was nothing really there. there was no big revelation. he wasn't exposing some big fraud that had taken place in philadelphia. the election won't stolen. >> while rudy was speaking, we looked at each other and we were in awe of how long this was going on. >> and i know you won't accept
it because of your hateful biases, but let's see if you can try thinking rationally. could some of those ballots have been manufactured in advance by the democratic machine of philadelphia? it wouldn't be the first time they did it. >> i didn't think anybody took this real serious. >> how can i possibly tell you? there is fraud or no fraud? >> and somebody says, yells out, do you know they've called the election for biden? >> who was it called by? oh, my goodness. all the networks? wow! all the networks! >> all the networks. when have the networks decided the election? something to that effect. and we're all thinking, all the time. networks call the elections all the time. >> you can see this ripple among the crowd of journalists as they try to figure out what to do.
i am standing there thinking the same thing. do i need to stay here and listen to rudy giuliani or go back to philadelphia where people are going to be celebrating the election? and then you see people start to pack up their stuff. >> many of them had to leave because the primary story wasn't that rudy giuliani was challenging the election results. the story was that biden had just won the presidency. if somebody asked me where were you when they called the election for joe biden, i'd say, well, i was in the parking lot of four seasons total landscaping. >> thank you. >> the president's lawyer left as the news came in that joe biden had been declared the victor. perhaps this is why they chose the industrial state. they wouldn't be heard or welcomed in downtown philadelphia. a city in a state which delivered donald trump the white house four years ago, pennsylvania is now the state which pushed joe biden over the
line. >> i just thought, sure, we said yeah, and it was going to be over. period. >> we would have done this for either political campaign. we just wanted to be helpful. >> and we just had no idea what we were in for. >> have you seen my press conference today at the four seasons? fancy. . >> yeah, sounds fancy. but it was a landscaping company called four seasons. was that a mistake? >> what? no. >> we heard from all different types of media outlets and people wanting to know more about what happened. >> i got calls from "the washington post." >> chicago times. >> "the new york times." >> "usa today." >> yahoo news. >> netflix. >> hulu. >> business insider. >> abc. >> nbc. >> fox. >> cbs. >> cnn. >> the bbc. i started seeing this was going further and it was going into europe german newspapers, irish newspapers, you name it, they were all calling. >> my emails have not stopped. are you getting emails?
>> non-stop. >> are you? >> yeah. >> yeah, that's why i said yes. otherwise, if i thought it was turning into this, i would have thought twice. >> on the day after the press conference it was nothing but chaos. we couldn't even use the office phone for two weeks because it just never stopped ringing. >> you couldn't get a thought processed, let alone answer them. >> you have 1,010 messages, three are urgent. message one. >> i understood that there is a special on [ bleep ] this week. >> message two. >> dismantling our democracy. >> and the united states of -- >> deleted. >> [ bleep ]. >> deleted. >> you're a [ bleep ] traitor. >> deleted. >> message 39. >> i was hoping -- >> the things they are saying
about us is like amazing. i just -- i can't even believe this. okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there is a big conspiracy theory. we're burning ballots across the street at the crematory. people's minds, they are just delusional. >> that was one of the hardest parts for me. i never had to deal with that level of hate. i am talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got basically saying to go f yourself, going to burn down your building. it created a lot of fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> it's frightening because 28 years could go down the tubes. i remember asking my husband, joe, are we going to survive this? are we going to get out of this in one piece? people don't get it, that being in business is not a picnic. i remember them coming to take my car in the middle of the
night. bringing a generator home because they shut my electric off because i couldn't cash my checks. i had a tough time borrowing money when i bought this building. i had to put my house up for the bank to give me the mortgage. so i had the shot of losing both places. >> do i want to see something she built just disappear? or was i going to keep the legacy going? >> trying to operate a business through all of this, i don't even know what word to use to describe this. >> people were taunting us, laughing at us, mocking us, and we needed to figure out a way to let them all know that we were in on the joke and that we were laughing, too. >> oh, oh, the networks. >> when you surround yourself with good people, good things happen. i think it started to turn when michael and sean started to run with this on instagram and facebook and they made a joke
out of everything because it was funny to us after. that they picked us out of everybody in the world. they will picked our place. >> if this whole thing blew up, i would recover from it. i would work somewhere else. but a family business that was 28 years in the making might not recover from something like this. and i felt responsible because these people are my family. >> understanding the joke and being in on it, it was just like almost a waterfall of memes that you could make. we got put into a corner and we used our humor to get us out of it. >> we were making thousands of people laugh all over the entire not only nation, but world. it went from being majority negative and getting hate to then be total opposite overnight. >> they ended up doing this? a rinky-dink parking lot. no offense to landscaping company. the winner wasn't the campaign. it was the total landscaping company, which has really come out of this on top.
just owning social media over the last month. >> like two entrepreneurs, we wanted to capitalize on this international attention and sell t-shirts. >> we went from being a landscaper to selling misdemeanors. we started filling orders day and night. >> we have done $1.5 million in sales revenue. that's a lot of t-shirts. >> we have been getting a lot of fan mail. people have been sending us christmasle cards with our zoom background on them. >> can you believe somebody made this? they made us our own lego set. there was a diorama of our company in berlin. that amazed me. who would want this? >> somebody made a virtual reality four seasons. >> we had people showing up on our doorstep knocking, asking for t-shirts. we even had one employee that was leaving and somebody offered them $50 for the stained sweaty t-shirt off their back. we had hundreds of visitors coming in the first couple days
following our social media revamp. >> suddenly, we had fans. it was surreal. >> would you look at all these people out here? it's like every day. this is insane. people have referred to us as a philly landmark. we had so many families out front. >> we even had two sisters, one lived in bethlehem, pennsylvania, the other in new york city, and they met here with a blanket and a picnic basket and had their thanksgiving dinner together here. i really think that the four seasons hotel thing was a blessing for us. if our name had been marie's landscaping, none of this would have happened. >> well, the team at four seasons total landscaping appears to have taken this in stride. go online now and you can buy a range of make america rake again and lawn and order merchandise. >> i reached out to the four seasons hotel. my reporting concluded that nobody from the trump campaign or any campaign had reach out to
the four seasons hotel about hosting any event. >> i love the narrative that it was a mistake and that they meant to book the four seasons hotel. >> there was no mistake. this is exactly where the press conference was supposed to be. >> they had surveyed some areas along the i-95 corridor and our site was one of the ones that they determined would be secure with quick access on and off the highway. >> and it was free. that's another important thing. the trump campaign blew through $1.1 billion. they were near broke before presidential election. they didn't have any money. and that's why it couldn't have been at the four seasons hotel. they would have charged them. >> that's why it was at four seasons total landscaping. there is your inside track. because they didn't want to do it anywhere else. >> this has given me something that i can't even explain to you. it's worth more than money because this was not about money at all.
this was about our story. >> it's an american underdog story. i think we were able to turn something that appeared to be disastrous for a small business into something positive. before the press conference, four seasons total landscaping was struggling. living from paycheck to paycheck. going from being just a local city landscaping company to now being globally recognized, it's amazing. but we are just honored to be able to give back. being able to help the next person out. we did a toy drive this christmas with toys for tots. me and sean went in ourselves, delivered them to the hospital. >> thank you, ladies, so much. really appreciate it. >> for them to get that joy, that was the best part for me. you know? i am very proud of myself for that. >> when we get on the zoom, i want you to take over this.
>> yeah, i got you. >> we are at the end of the line for me in my career, but i know when i hand the keys turnover michael, he's got it. he's proved himself. >> michael has shown every day how much he's grown as an individual, as a father, as a husband, as a son. >> she is a phenomenal mother. she is always there to support me. it's like always having somebody with their hand on your back pushing you to greatness. >> for him to step into my shoes and take over my role, i have so much faith in him. i know he can do anything. [ cheers and applause ] >> my distinguished guests, my fellow americans, this is america's day. this is the democracy's day.
a day of history and hope, of renewal and resolve. through a crucible for the ages, america's been tested anew, and america has risen to the challenge. >> the most amazing thing in my life has happened. i am in a super bowl commercial. >> looks good, guys. success! right place, right time. fiber gets that. from design to web development or even a pr expert for things like, i don't know, booking a press conference. ♪♪ >> fiber has the freelancers to get you where you want to be. is this a lobby? >> this is not a hotel. >> we have a big show coming up for you. marie and michael siravo of four
seasons total landscaping are here to tell us what life has been like since the infamous day. plus how it all came about. we will also take a deeper look into how the big lie metastasized from giuliani's post-press conference. that's next on msnbc. don't go anywhere. - oh...oh. - what's going on? - oh, darn! - let me help. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them with downy wrinkleguard. feel the difference with downy. certified turbocharger, suspension and fuel injection. translation: certified goosebumps. certified from headlamp to tailpipe. that's certified head turns.
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♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ we are a landscaping company. we are experts in ground maintenance, irrigation, seeding, planting. not press conferences. >> why would the lawyers hold a press conference at a landscaping company? >> it was a quick setup. it was a landscape construction yard. >> wow, when a beautiful day. thank you. >> we had no idea what we were in for. >> oh, my goodness. all the networks! >> i remember asking, did we make a mistake? >> we had a lot of haters. >> you have 1,010 messages.
>> it created a lot of fear for four seasons total landscaping. >> we got put into a corner and we used our humor to get us out of it. >> oh, oh, the networks. >> they made a joke out of everything because it was funny to us. >> it's an american underdog story. >> on the morning of november 7, 2020, then-president donald trump sent out a series of tweets announcing a press conference at the four seasons in philadelphia. not the four seasons hotel, but four seasons total landscaping. the family-owned business located in north philadelphia industrial park off of i-95. it became host to one of the most surreal moments of the 2020 election and the subject of the four seasons total documentary. the director, christopher stout, the opener of four seasons total landscaping marie siravo and her son and director of operations mike the siravo all join me now. guys, great to have all of you
with us. this was an incredible documentary. i cried. i laughed. i felt sorry for you. i was rooting for you at the end. i am so happy to finally have the ability to talk to you. maria, how has this journey been for you? how is the business and family doing now? >> everybody's doing great. and i'll be honest with you. this was the ride of a lifetime. i am at the end of my career. and i am happy that i made the decision i made while we were in, you know, when we were initially called to, you know, to hold the press conference here. and i never could have imagined it would have turned out like this. but it has been such a year for us because we have had one thing after another has happened. people have, they've embraced us around the country and around the world. messages we've gotten. i couldn't be happier. and then to, you know, to get to
a year and have a documentary is just amazing for us. we are thrilled. >> chris, let's talk about that documentary for a moment. how did you decide on doing a documentary about this? how did you connect with the family? how did you manage to get through to them with all of the thousands of phone calls and messages that they were receiving on any given day? >> so, obviously, the whole world wanted to know the mystery. why did the president's lawyer hold a press conference at a landscaping company? so clearly this was -- this big question, the million dollar question that needed to be solved. and, yes, outlets from all over the world were reaching out to them. but i actually had sort of an inside track. as it turned out, a friend of mine was brothers with sean middleton, the director of sales at four seasons. and so i actually was able to get on the phone with them before anyone else did. and when we got on the phone
together i got the sense that every outlet wanted to know, you know, why did this happen? why was the press conference held there? for me i was more interested in actually getting to know them as people and seeing how their experience has been just having their world turned upside down. they were such a fish out of water. for me the conflict called to me as a filmmaker. you know, what the hell happened? >> i wanted to play for you this clip from the documentary just after the press conference with rudy giuliani. watch this moment. >> that was one of the hardest parts for me. i never had to deal with that level of hate. i'm talking hundreds and hundreds of emails. i just got basically saying to go f yourself, going to burn down your building. it created a lot of fear. fear of what the future holds for four seasons total landscaping. >> so, michael, the future has played out a little bit. tell us, are you still getting messages like that? how do you handle the messages,
if at all, that you are receiving now? >> complete opposite messages. they are filled with like love and appreciation for the, you know, the way that we spun this and making it an almost comedic, you know, if anybody ever comes, stops through here, you know, we hand them stickers, t-shirts, whatever we can because it's crazy to even think that there is, for us, that there is fans, you know. that's the hardest part for me. it's just like there is actual fans of a philadelphia-based landscaping company, you know. it's hard -- it's still hard to grasp. but i always tell people, if you're in the area, stop through, we'll take pictures, do what we can if we have time. yeah, i love it. >> christopher, you had such an intimate insight into making this documentary. what surprised you the most while you were making this film? >> i think to mike's point, the thing that surprised me the most
was this outpouring of love that four seasons received after the press conference. i mean, they sold $1.5 million worth of t-shirts. i mean, that's just incredible. you can actually still buy those t-shirts now. people were making christmas cards featuring the garage door as their zoom book ground. those two sisters that came to four seasons to have their thanksgiving there. clearly this moment resonated with people, and it created just such an outpouring of love. and suddenly four seasons total landscaping sort of meant something to people and it became this meme that people could actually share together and it kind of created this online community. >> i am going to go out on a limb and say there is probably going to be some wedding proposal there at some point. let ask you quickly, let me ask you just though, because it's become such an iconic location, has any other political party or
political campaign reached out to you to hold a political event there? if so, what would you say? >> unfortunately, no other political campaign has approached us. but we would have said yes because, you know, knowing where it got us here and all of the excitement that we have had, we'd do it again. we would do it again. the outpouring and the embracing that we've had, the way people have treated us, the end result was just -- it may not have been business enhancing, but the treatment that we got and, truthfully, everywhere we go, somebody knows us. it's exciting. it's really exciting. you work your whole life and what a way to go out, you know. i am at the end of my career and this is just amazing to me that people stop me and say, you look like the girl from -- the lady from four seasons. i am the lady from four seasons. and it's just funny. it's just, you know, it's amazing.
>> michael, i know the future of this company is so important to you and your family. we heard christopher talking about how you turned this bad situation into a positive one with the misdemeanors. have you given any thought about the future of the company and what you can do if you even plan on expanding it from beyond just doing landscaping and now the merchandise, perhaps become an event space one day? >> yeah, the main goal for me is to, obviously, create more jobs, keep going to the next level. that was always my plan from prior to all this excitement and the conference. our niche is landscaping. it probably always will be. i'll do the same thing that i did the first time around. it's just take one day at a time, one week at a time and just kind of go from there. if something is put in our, you know, in our opportunity to do something, yeah, i don't see why not. >> we are going to be rooting for you for whatever you guys decide to do in the future.
christopher stout and michael and marie siravo, thank you so much for this absolutely brilliant and wonderful documentary. up next, how the election fraud narrative push pd by rudy giuliani at four seasons total landscaping became a defining believe among republican voters. the growth of the big lie coming up next. lie coming up next. (tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. ♪
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allegations of voter fraud and that the election was stolen, just as the networks were calling the election for joe biden, it almost seems comical and you want to laugh at what you were seeing there. but give how this has resonated among republicans, what is that moment in time meaning for where we are as a country? >> one way you could look at it, i wouldn't say a break with reality when people talk about -- they would talk about the wheels being off of the trump white house, like there were wheels? and so four seasons was not a breaking point because things
had been insane. if the election had been all about conspiracies for a long time, the administration had been about conspiracies. donald trump's entire political career was about conspiracies. t but it was this kind of formal moment where they officially made conspiracies and insanity their strategy going forward. and what was followed -- and what followed that was the insurrection. so even this was this hilariously, weird, historic event at this landscaping company by mistake or before planning, it still, there is a kind of grimness to the whole thing knowing, you know, what came after. >> so, kimberly, to that point, when you look at where the polling is today on this, you know, some polls suggest as much as 68% of republicans believe
the election was stolen. they believe the big lie. it's even higher for people who use fox news as their main source of information or who trust it. it's like in the low 80s. how do you begin to counter the big lie when you have that many people buying into it? >>uy it's difficult. and to be sure this was amplified by donald trump and his campaign. but it goes back so much farther. we have to remember that the idea of the big lie and why it was able to take hold is because decades lawmakers, particularly republicans, have used this, this idea of protecting against fraud, fraud that's never existed, that's never been proven, in order to make voting more difficult, to pass laws with everything but -- from stripping voters' names from polls, from requiring id requirements where we know that it's more difficult for black people, brown dipeople, poor people to get them and they tend to vote democratic. that has been happening a long time.
the stripping of the voting rights act where it happened even more. it was sort of that was the kindling t where donald trump's big lie was able to set afire and really lead to this. so it's a slow build-up and that's why it's so much harder to fight back against now. >> in the months leading up to this fateful day at four seasons total landscaping the trump campaign was -- trump was sort of throwing out different reasons why he would eventually lose. once it became clear to him, i remember talking to advisors in the white house on the campaign, once he started to accept that it was a possibilities, which took a really long time given whaty the polls said and how things were going in the country and with the coronavirus, he started to kind of amp things up with spit-balling about things that were going wrong, who was taking the election from him, the fact that fraud was forthcoming, basically, to give himself an execs cues in the event he loved. >> sphereen spears, there was a
moment in the document that is foreshadowing. when marie starts receiving phone calls and messages. one of them was a conspiracy theory. watch.ll >> the things they are saying about us is like amazing. i just -- i can't even believe this. okay, guys, wait until you hear this one. there is a big conspiracy theory. we're burning ballots across the street at the crematory. >> kimberly, that seems like a harbinger of the conspiracy theories that we are now inundated with around this election because of moments like that. >> absolutely. i mean, when there are -- when there is uniform source of information, information sources are diversified and when so much misinformation is being fueled into this election and the past several elections, that's exactly what happens. people believe what they want to believe. they believe even farfetched things as longve as it confirms their own biases.
we are still seeing that today. people are dug into their corners and believe whatever supports their side. >> kimberly atkins sstor, olivia nu sfl zi thank you. please join in. i'm ayman mohyeldin. good night. n mohyeldin. good night that's why they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. oh, yeah. that's the spot. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ like many people with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease, i was there. be right back. but my symptoms were keeping me from where i needed to be. so i talked to my doctor and learned humira is the #1 prescribed biologic for people with uc or crohn's disease. and humira helps people achieve remission that can last, so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.
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coming up, we're going toll dive deeper into the concept of celebrities changing the narrative and reclaiming their own identity, specifically when it comes to body image. plus, republicans have mainly stayed out of the spotlight when it comes to infrastructure talk, but the backlash for the 13 members who voted with the democrats has dragged their own fighting into the public scare. and across europe, a new wave of covid cases. is what's happening abroad a warning sign for what's ahead here in the united states? i'm ayman mmohyeldin. let's get started.