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tv   Ayman  MSNBC  November 13, 2021 6:00pm-7:00pm PST

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doing adding jamie encourages a full and transparent examination. whether the singer's attorney pursues an investigation is now entirely up to britney. >> britney as of today is a free woman and she's an independent woman. that was emily acada reporting. as mentioned, as many as 1.3 million americans live under strict conservatorships. time will only tell whether her case will provide a precedent for those living under strict and sometimes unnecessary guardianships coming to light. britney is free it be britney. coming up, we are going to dive deep near the concept of celebrities changing the narrative and reclaiming their own identity, specifically when it comes to body image. plus, republicans have mainly stayed out of the spotlight when it comes to infrastructure talks but the backlash that greeted 13
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members who voted with the democrats last week has dragged their own infighting in the public square and it is ugly. >> and across the country, countries with high vaccination rates are seeing a new wave of cases. is what's happening abroad a warning sign for what's ahead here in the united states? i'm ayman mohyeldin. let's get started. so the recent fights on capitol hill over infrastructure and social spending have featured plenty of democratic infighting, nothing new there. until now republicans have managed to stay out of the spotlight but that is beginning to change as some very public fractures are emerging within the gop. republicans in the biden era have designed themselves by one characteristic. they are against whatever joe biden and his party are far. and any crack in their wall of opposite to cost them the chance to flip the house in 2022.
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this week 13 republicans voted for the bipartisan infrastructure bill faced a wave of harassment, including, yes, death threats, from the trump-aligned base. one person received a message, to, quote, slit his wrist and rot in hell and another said they hoped don bacon with slip and fall down a staircase. they pale compared to these messages. listen just to one. [ bleep ]. you're stupider that he is. he can't even complete a [ bleep ] sentence. ce now, as the party faithful wish death on members of congress, their staff and families, house republican leader kevin mccarthy and his deputies have remained silent,
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refusing to denounce the comments or even come to the aid of their own 13 beleaguered republican colleagues. it may not be surprising to learn that many of those threats seem to have come as a result of an action of georgia congresswoman marjory taylor greene. she described her party as traitors and tweeted there are 13, air quote, republicans who handed over their cards to nancy pelosi. below that post was another that contained the phone numbers of each of her 13 colleagues and her followers, as you can imagine appeared to have been listening. "the new york times" reported that a vast majority of the calls were made by voters outside the targeted lawmakers' districts. it's too early to tell whether this gop fracture develops into a full-blown fight, but based on past experiences, one thing
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seems clear, marjory taylor greene is unlikely to face any consequences from her party's leadership. for more on all of this, let's bring in our saturday night panel. susan del percio, and michael star hopkins, attorney and contributor to "the hill." susan, i'll start with you. there's another part we left out in that introduction. in addition to these 13 threats received by those 13 republicans, we learned this week that trump defended the calls by those in january 6th to hang mike pence. watch. >> were you worried about him during that siege? were you worried about him? >> no, i thought he was well protected and i had heard that he was in good shape. no, because i had heard he was in very good shape. but -- but, no -- >> you heard those chants. that was terrible. >> he could have -- well, the people were very angry. >> so as trump there stone walls
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the january 6th committee investigating the insurrection, his supporters are threatening school board members, poll workers and through it all, kevin mccarthy, who wants to be speaker of the house, remains silent. not even condemning the violence against members of his own party. why has the gop seemed to embrace violence instead of condemning it and why is there just complete silence in this country around that? >> i'm going to break it into two parts, ayman. one is leadership within the republican party and the other is these grass roots organizations and republicans that are what we call the base right now. i think the days republicans are so far beyond donald trump in what they do and -- donald trump doesn't lead them anymore. they just go out and commit these violent acts. they are very dangerous in the way they are going to school board meetings and attacking
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local officials. when it comes to donald trump, he has -- as the president of the united states, he basically said it's okay to speak violence. and to encourage violence. and kevin mccarthy, i mean, i said this a while back, i don't think that kevin mccarthy's actually going to be speaker if the republicans take back the house. he has shown zero leadership. he's been there for donald trump picking out the right star bursts, i guess, but other than that, he really can't stand behind anything. even his own caucus, he doesn't -- he's silent. there's got to be some room for decency. and as far as those 13 members of congress, you know what they did? you want to know what their high crime was according to that woman from georgia? >> they voted for an infrastructure bill. >> they voted for bridges and
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tunnels. i mean, i can hardly imagine that's what elected officials do. >> imagine the idea of wanting to have a bridge making you a traitor in this country. that's how low we have sunken if you're a member of the republican party who is threatening these guys. let's talk about another high profile, michael, steve bannon. what do you make of the case there? there has certainly been a struggle to hold even not elected former trump officials like steve bannon accountable, but does this bannon indictment give you any kind of hope? >> well, i got to say i'm glad that the d.o.j. has been silent while they've made this decision and it's been really nice to see, whether you're a republican or democrat, someone held accountable when they failed to show up when congress demands it. the only way the system works is if people show respect, so deference to it. when steve bannon and mark meadows and the rest of the lot who have been subpoenaed fail to show up, they derespect
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disrespect the system and weaken it. >> and i heard the point made, michael, that even in this moment when the d.o.j. is going after steve bannon, indicting him, he's still being given the privilege of turning himself in on monday. that does in the in and of itself mean he's going to spend time in prison or that he has to give the information to congress. >> i was a public defender there. >> go for it. >> most of my clients didn't get to turn themselves in. most of my clients didn't get the ridiculous privileges that a lot of these guys are getting. they'd get dragged in, they were treated roughly, it was a seedy jail cell. this the perfect example of two different americas. >> steve bannon gets at least one more weekend before he has to turn himself in on monday
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morning. >> susan, i want to go back to the 13 house republicans. we were joking around that they just simply want bridges and cleaner pipes and they're being portrayed at traitors. to me, it's the issue of bipartisanship. it's only 13 republicans in the house out of 200-plus some number. is it a sign that within the republican party can you not work with the democrats at all? >> well, and just also highlight on the senate side there were 19 republicans that also signed on. so it showed even more bipartisanship in the senate. i don't know. to me it shows that republicans care about infrastructure. they always have. and that this was something that was made simple for them to do. the biden administration brought forward infrastructure. they at this described it with the build back better and the
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social safety net and that allowed what this country has been wanting for decades now is bringing back a real investment in solid infrastructure. republicans can get behind that. i cannot imagine them get behind much more to be honest. >> you brought up an interesting point about the 19 democrats. why is it that the 19 democrats in the senate at least have not received the kind of accusations that the 13 in the house have received? is it because they don't have a marjorie taylor greene type of person who incites some of this reaction inside the senate? how do you explain the dichotomy between why those 19 senators, the republicans who are voting for the bipartisan infrastructure bill, they're not getting the same kind of heat as the house republicans? >> well, first of all, it happened in august. so -- and it happened really before a lot of specifics came out on the part two, if you
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will, the build back better. so it was allowed to be an infrastructure bill and nothing else. it is in part the way the house works, whether it's on the democrat or republican side, there tends to be more in fighting, if you will. and at times name calling. it happens on both sides. although only right now on the republican side do you see, you know, cartoons of killing a member of congress, which is completely unacceptable. but i do think that at this point even the senate they want to just -- they're done. that's it. that's it. it's all that's happening -- >> this is about political courage, though. this is purely about getting reelected. when donald trump is the useful vessel, they go with donald trump. when it's infrastructure, they'll do that. it's the problem with the party.
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>> to be fair, republicans have always liked infrastructure. i mean, that's not like they took a thing just to get reelected. >> absolutely. >> it's been infrastructure week for four years during trump, they couldn't get it done. if they liked infrastructure so well, why didn't they get it done when they controlled -- >> he had a bigger number. >> i believe you but i don't know if the party actually believes that anymore. let me pivot a moment away from republicans here and talk about the democrats, michael, because you had this op-ed in "the new york times," former bill clinton adviser mark penn in a pollster argued senators manchin and sinema are not outiers, mr. biden should listen to centrists and push back on the
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left. what are your thoughts here? is mark penn here? should democrats pivot to the center? when you look at the items in these bill, they poll consistently well above 60%, 70%. is getting as high as high as 80s. >> mark penn and that pollster were both consultants for donald trump. they need to do a better job messaging. if you take the label off these policies, they get insanely high report. but once they get labeled as republicans, they start to fall. this isn't a tough thing to do but for some reason democrats are insanely bad at messaging and things haven't gotten much better. >> all right. susan del percio, michael starr
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hopkins, guys, stay with us. we've got a lot more to get to. still ed, we'll take a look at emily's campaign to be seen beyond her looks. plus swifties are part of taylor swift's presentation. a former u.s. marine told a reporter that day that he and fellow rioters were going to take the federal building. he reached a plea agreement and will serve 60 days in jail. john gruden filed a lawsuit against the nfl, accusing commissioner roger goodell of launching a soviet-style character assassination against him. he resigned after thousands of his work emails were made
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public. >> and at least 68 inmates died at a gun battle in ecuador saturday between prison gangs and ecuador drug cartels. more ayman with ayman mohyeldin right after this break. n mohyel right after this break ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ ever notice how stiff clothes can feel rough on your skin? for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with downy is softer, and gentler on your skin.
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there is a common saying when it comes to celebrities that image is everything, but who owns that image? for maddel ap actress emily ratakowski, an essay "buying myself back," she said i have learned my image and my reflection is not my own, as documented in her new book "my body." what can the rest of us learn from her journey.
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an inherent part of celebrity is commoditification. what do you make of her taking back this narrative? >> good for her. people trying to monetize their image has been going on with a long i'm. with emerging technology, it's going to be really interesting to see how that changes. as the lawyer on the panel and hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, it depends. we'll see. >> one review said it's hard to escape the obvious fact that while she is indeed a victim of a culture that values women's beauty above all else, all women are victims of this. she still sits at the very top of the pile. valid criticism here or, again, reinforcing the stereotype from the people who say she shouldn't be complaining? >> well, i think she has a right to say what she wants to say. she wrote a book. people are buying it, they're
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reading it. there is something as important -- while going through covid, people became connected to people they don't know over social media, watching them on twitter and on instagram. i am particularly interested in what she has to offer given what came out about two weeks ago when we learned about the effects on instagram on young women on body shaming. i don't think there is any right or wrong. it is what she is choosing to do and people want to buy into it or want to complain about it, so be it. >> just generally, susan, why do you think we're such an unforgiving society when it comes to these conversations? we can be so harsh when we're talking about celebrities and their personal struggles? >> in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and
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even the 80s, everybody had to be perfect all the time. sexuality, you didn't talk about it if you had a leading man that was gay, you can't even say those words. now when you see a celebrity's warts, you feel more connected to them. you see they go through regular, every day problems and body image issues and relationship problems. people like to see that. >> i was going to say the openness makes people feel they are real people and you can connect with them. speaking of that, celebrities and their image, michael, you had jonah hill who made headlines when he asked people to stop making comments about his weight. he said good or bad i want to politely let you know it's not helpful and doesn't feel good, much respect. as susan was mentioning, apps like instagram have made it easier for people to share their often unwanted opinions about these things.
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they have made it easier to forget celebrities are people just like us and commenting on the way people look is just not helpful? >> because we're inundated with celebrities all the time, we forget they're people with feelings just like the rest of us. i think you get a more personal view into these people's lives and forget that they're not your friends, they're not your neighbor. the comments that you make about them just because it's online, they can still hurt, they can still have an effect. i think now you're starting to see celebrities talk more about mental health, more about the way that social media has affected them. i'm not a celebrity but it's why i got rid of all social media. >> oh, come on, you definitely have a little bit of a celebrity fan club. >> just you, man. >> susan, i go the to ask you about will smith here for a moment. he's an actor who has opened up a lot about body transformation,
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he has a new documentary called "the best shape of my life," trying to lose 20 pounds in 20 weeks. what's the benefit of sharing this struggle when you're at the top of the acting world? >> i think to say it's not easy is i think is will smith's point. the flip side is when you do something like this journey and make it public, people file like they are part of it. you're inviting him into it. so, yes, do they feel like thon a piece of you? yes. maybe because they see your movie, they read your book, they buy your music. there is this back and forth with fans and celebrities that should be recognized and yet when it comes to professional athletes like we saw in tennis and gymnastics, it turned out the spotlight was just too much
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because of. mental stress it put on them during their performance in athletics. so there is -- and they had to step away. so there is something there but fans feel like they own you when you offer yourself up to them. >> and this is not to compare politicians and celebrities here, but i'm curious as to whether or not there is something that politicians can learn about being authentic from some of these celebrities. and we don't -- i feel like politicians, susan and michael, and tell me if i'm wrong, they always seem to be switched on. sometimes they don't necessarily connect. and when they do, it's a rare moment that you see a politician actually be authentic and share their own personal struggles in a way like that because it could have a political consequence for them with voters. what do you have think, susan? would you advise a politician to go out and talk about their vulnerabilities and share their
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own personal challenge when it comes to things like image and weight and not just policies, but personal struggles? >> you hear a lot of survivors of breast cancer talk about that. there's the big softball game with congressional softball game that sponsors breast cancer awareness. and i think that the problem is is that right now we just went through it, instagram, everyone has a phone. it's very hard to let down your guard because you never know who's coming at you. so politician when is they can be authentic, i just go to that jeff flake moment when he was caught in the elevator during the kavanaugh hearing and saw a rape survivor and he asked for more time, that was an authentic moment that we knew happened. so there can be good that comes from it. >> what's your take, michael? do you think that politicians don't have the same vulnerability or have the ability to be vulnerable and
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share their concerns and image issues with the public because the way our politics is now, they would be pounced on by the other side. i think if somebody like aoc who whenever she post as personal story on instagram, the right just goes crazy over it and, you know, tries to make fun of her in every sense of the word, that it becomes hard to imagine why would anybody want to open up and share their only personal struggles if they just are going to get attacked? >> well, that's what i don't understand in terms of politicians. why would you ever want to put yourself forward just to get ripped apart. when you think about politician who is really resonate and who we consider to be good kind of figures, the bill clintons, the barack obamas, it was because they resonated. it was because they had shortfalls and weaknesses. barack obama cried after sandy hook. you had bill clinton first struggling with his weight during the campaign and the infidelity issues. showing vulnerability i think makes you a better candidate. when i was preparing one of the
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presidential candidates in the 2020 race for presidential debates, that was one of the big things that i told them, get away from the notes, get away from the prepared comments, talk about your life experience, things that people can relate to. >> that is risky. susan, what do you think of that strategy? i can think of a few moments off the top of my head when politician goes off script and you're like, whoa, no, stick to the script please. >> please clap. >> yes, please clap. there's definitely a double standard with how we treat men and women candidates. to michael's point going off script smart or not smart? >> depends on the candidate. can you go off script in a very scripted way if you're a good politician. >> going off script as a scripted politician. guys, don't go anywhere. we still have a lot more to talk
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so the climate conference has come to an end in glasgow. it went into overtime after they failed to meet a friday deadline to strike deal. the one thing all nations agreed upon, that they couldn't agree on what to do about climate change, believe it or not, surprise, surprise. the conference was troubled from the outset. leaders from china and russia actually failed to show up. president biden was there of course, but he arrived without any meaningful climate legislation out of congress and mass protests carried on outside the deliberations. their desperate calls for actions from world leaders were
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backed up by some of the world's most vulnerable nations like the foreign minister of tuvalu in the south pacific. >> we're living the realities of climate change, sea level rise, as you stand watching me today at cop26. we cannot wait while the sea is rising around us at all time. we must take bold, alternative action today to secure our tomorrow. >> powerful image but delegates struggled to resolve issues. and an emotional address in the
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u.k.'s president. >> i apologize for the way this process has unfolded and i'm deeply sorry. i also understand the deep disappointment, but i think as you have noted, it's also vital that we protect this package. >> and a word of warning, "beware of a tsunami to characterize this." president joe biden will hold his first summit with president xi jinping on sunday.
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there are just 359 days until cop27 is held in egypt. will words be turned into action? the future of our planet will have to wait and see for another year unfortunately. nother year unfortunately geys on your six, limu. they need customized car insurance from liberty mutual so they only pay for what they need. what do you say we see what this bird can do? woooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicopter. looks like we're walking, kid. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ [laughing and giggling] (woman) hey dad. miss us?
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have become our default way of life and over 193 million americans are fully vaccinated, just under 59% of the population, not where it should be. perhaps seasonal booster shots will be as common as the seasonal flu shot. maybe we'll learn to live with covid like we do the flu but with more than 1,000 deaths across the country yesterday, we are still a long way away from normal. the u.s. reopened its borders to international travelers but that comes as a fifth wave is beginning in europe. as winter sets in and people head indoors, the virus, which was thought to be under control, is anything but. europe has seen a jump in more than 50% in new coronavirus cases in the last month. the continent could see another half a million deaths by february. in the netherlands today, the hague demonstrating against a
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three-week partial lockdown. in germany, more than 50,000 cases in a single day. and in austria, the country is preparing to put a lockdown on the unvaccinated as case numbers rise. so is this new normal just a holding pattern in what could be another disastrous and deadly winter ahead for us here in the united states? let's bring in our panel back with us. susan del percio, i want to start with you by getting your reaction, your take to where we are with this virus. do you feel like we are living in a new normal or are you worried about where we're heading? >> well, it depends on if you've been vaccinated or not. if you've been fully vaccinated, people are getting the booster, then you can go on and live in the environment -- i don't like even saying new normal because i think we don't know what that normal is going to be at any given point. so it's just where we are today. and for all of those who fight
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against the mask mandates and the vaccine mandates, it destroys the country. it doesn't allow us to move forward. so again, it depends where you are in the country and it depends if you're vaccinated given and it depends on who your governor is or not. >> that's true. your governor is probably more important in this than others with the way things have been playing out. speaking of that, michael, you had the borders reopening lately, you can see it here with 30 rock, the christmas tree going up, it's starting to get crowded. the decision was made several weeks ago to open up the borders so that was set in motion. we're watching what's playing out in europe, the numbers spiking a fifth wave in some countries and our borders are once again completely open. smart move or no? >> i think it was kind of the
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move that we all saw coming. if you're in kind of a blue place, there's a high belief in science. if you're living in a red state, a think a lot of governors have treated fas there is nothing going on. so we're going to do all to stop it as much as we can but at some point they have to start moving forward with the people who are actually vaccinated. for the last six to eight months, democrats have been iffy and back and forth on whether masks are necessary, whether shots are the right way to go. there's been a real mixed message. >> yeah, you could say that it's mixed messaging from day one with everything we are doing with this pandemic from masks to everything in between. schools -- >> it's new. it makes sense.
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this isn't something we've had happen since 1918. it makes sense that there would be changing in the science and messaging but i don't think given where we are culturally that's something people understand. >> i think the problem is it has to do more with the certainty with which it was presented to us from the beginning and the kind of like idea that it was kind of rammed down our throats by saying this is the only way to do it and a couple weeks or couple months later we learned something new and there isn't the transparency to say, oh, we've learned more and this is not what we should do, we can navigate it by doing x, y and z. i think that's why there's the covid fatigue settling in. >> and i think it's really political. >> and we totally politicize everything in this country. >> we all live in silos. if you're a democrat, most of your friends are democrats. if you're a republican, your friends are republicans.
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that's what's contributing to a lot of this. >> susan, you have thanksgiving, the holidays. with the global supply shortage, we're facing a massive shortage of rapid tests, which i don't understand how two years into this we don't have an affordable at home, reliable test. it's just mind boggling. do you have see yourself having a normal holiday season? are you going to be doing what you normally did before the pandemic? >> i actually am. that is my plan. now, to be fair, i don't travel for the holidays usually so i will be here in new york. >> must be nice. >> we typically go out as a family so that's what we're doing this year. it's not a very extravagant thing but i do think we have to look at that testing issue. i've been to several different events where you have to be tested within 72 hours and be vaccinated and that allows people to feel more comfortable.
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but you're spot on when you say we don't have affordable, quick, reliable testing, especially when it comes to our schools. that's where a lot of pent-up covid frustration actually is because everyone had their kids home with them and now they're trying to get them back into school and if you have daily outbreaks, it affects everything else. >> not to pry into your personal life, are you going to spending thanksgiving in a way you had been prior to the pandemic? if not, what are you doing differently? >> yeah, so my whole family is going to get together for thanksgiving and it's going to be the first time we've actually done is since covid started. >> okay. >> but the perk to that is everybody's vaccinated and most of us have the booster. those things allow to us get back to some semblance of normality. >> speaking of that, we've been mentioning that there are under 60% vaccinated here in the u.s. the global rate is closer to
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40%. they're not doing much better. that sadly means the virus is going to continue to mutate, as we saw with the delta variant. and you just had the world health organization on friday saying six times more booster shots of coronavirus vaccine are being administered around the world daily than primary doses in low-income countries. and the director general is calling this disparity a scandal that must stop now. you just talked about having your booster shot, michael. what do you think? >> i want to know what you're doing for thanksgiving before we go any further. you got mine. >> don't try to be slick. >> i'm the one that asks the questions here. i don't answer questions. to be fair, we're going to have a normal thanksgiving. we're going to see who in our family wants to hang out with us in new york. my brother lives in california and my friends live in georgia. we might try to go out west.
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we'll see. on this issue of booster shots, should we be taking boosters while the rest of the world has not even gotten their primary dose, susan? >> i think it's acceptable that we're taking our boosters. we are also getting at -- the biden administration has been very good about getting millions upon millions of doses out through the organization, which name escapes me out now to get distributed. >> co-vax program through the u.n. >> he's the one that's really ramped that up and believes that's the way to go. i do any think there's anything wrong with taking care of our country. and let's not forget, look at the number up put up. less than 59% of the people want the vaccination. anyone who wants a booster should able to get it and then there is plenty out.
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>> final question about -- let me just ask you this real quick. i wanted to get to this. you have the ceo of pfizer this week take aim of people spreading misinformation. the name that comes to mind, somebody like aaron rogers, joe rogan, saying they should be treated as criminal. the pfizer ceo saying those who spread misinformation on the covid vaccine should be treated as criminals. those are pretty strong words. what do you think? is that the right approach? >> no. look, it's not against the law to be stupid. there will be a lot of people in jail. we can be smart about how we go about informing people. one of the smartest things the biden administration is doing is focusing on foreign policy in terms of the covid response and us going out and giving other countries the vaccination, giving them access to the technology i think is a really smart long-term move. we saw that with clinton and bush, it worked really well in terms of hiv. this is an opportunity that we
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can at least make some good of. >> michael starr hopkins, susan del persie, i bet you guys didn't think we'd be talking about everything all in an hour. ♪♪ ♪♪ taylor swift is twisting the knife in her ten-minute version of "all too well." i'm going to explain that to you next. g to explain that to you next ♪
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♪♪ >> all right. so before we go, that was taylor swift's new short film "all too well." yes, you heard that right. the singer and song writer is now also a director. the film was based around the ten-minute version of the film "all too well." included in the re-release of red, taylor's version that was out on friday of last week, the second of six albums, the pop star is planning to re-record as fight for ownership of her music continues. her life's work would be left with someone who bullied her. so november of 2020, the grammy winner decided to change the narrative, taking matters into her own hands. in anticipation for the re-release of "red" could not have been higher. she shared songs and version previously not included in the album, such as this. let me just say after giving it
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a listen and being told so by my amazing team of producers, it is a tough time to be jake. thank you for making time for us. come back tomorrow night at 9:00 eastern on msnbc. marvin lemus and linda chavez co-creators of "gentrified." but until we meet again, good night. leader in 5g and a per who delivers exceptional customer support, and 5g included in every plan, so you get it all.
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welcome to a special presentation of the "meet the press" film festival. i'm chuck todd. what you are about to see is a little piece of this year's broader festival program. these are the best in class short documentaries covering the most consequential issues across the country. in the last five years the "meet the press" film festival showcased more than 100 films around the world. dozens have gone on to


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