tv The 11th Hour With Brian Williams MSNBC November 12, 2021 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
good evening once again. day 297 of the biden administration. and tonight, as we bring a long week to a close, there is a glimmer of possible consequences for one of the most arrogant members of trump's inner circle. steve bannon indicted for contempt of congress. and the other news is about the former trump white house chief of staff mark meadows. he may be headed for the same fate. the grand jury's decision on bannon came this afternoon, 22 days after the house voted to send his case over to the justice department and hold him in contempt. he's been charged with refusing to testify, and refusing to produce documents. house investigators cited bannon's comments the day before
the capitol riot. >> it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. all i can say is strap in. the war room, a posse, you have made this happen. and tomorrow, it's game day. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. it's going to be moving, it's going to be quick. >> sounds unambiguous. like a mob movie where the boss pressures his guys not to rat him out, trump has directed former aides not to cooperate or hand over documents. he thinks he's shielded by executive privilege and that won't work here. today, bennie thompson and liz cheney issued a statement reading, steve bannon's indictment should send a clear message to anyone who thinks they can ignore the committee or stonewall the investigation. no one is above the law. we will not hesitate to use the tools at our disposal to get the
information we need. trump pardoned steve bannon from fraud charges earlier this year. but that is not currency, and will not do anything for him now. bannon is facing up to two years max on the contempt charges. he's expected to surrender himself monday before his first court appearance. no doubt after enjoying his weekend. he's taking a defiant stand. >> we're taking action. we're taking over the republican party, all of the elections, and we're going to get to the bottom of 3 november, and we're going to decertify the electors, and you're going to have a constitutional crisis. >> and mark meadows, a no-show today, despite the 1/6 committee's demand that he appear. that didn't go over well with
the committee. issuing this warning, mr. meadows' actions today, choosing to defy the law, will force the committee to consider contempt charges. >> we've got to take some action. you can't allow these individuals who have information that the committee needs to simply flout their obligation, thumb their nose at congress and the law. this just -- that can't happen in america. >> his posture is just laughable. there's no absolute -- there's no absolute here that he can't come before the committee or can't talk about some of his work previously. >> and here's the problem for mark meadows. he once believed in the sanctity of a subpoena and cooperating with a congressional
investigation. this is from 2018. >> what are you accusing rod rosenstein of? >> for nine months, we asked for documents. and we found that not only have subpoenas been ignored, but information has been hidden. the efforts have been stonewalled. i guess for us, it's all about transparency, so the american people can judge for themselves. and so they may be able to ignore congress, but they can't ignore the american people. >> apparently, that's all changed now. this is all unfolding amid a stunning new revelation about trump's reaction to mike pence being in danger on the day of the insurrection. >> hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! hang mike pence! >> you see, it turns out that
two months after that day, trump spoke with jon karl of abc news for his forthcoming book "betrayal." during that interview, the performer president appears to defend the insurrectionists who wanted to hang mike pence as he was about to certify the election results. >> were you worried about him during that siege? >> no, i thought he was well-protected and i had heard that he was in good shape. because i had heard he was in very good shape. >> because you heard the chants. that was terrible. >> well, the people were very angry. >> they were saying hang mike pence. >> it's common sense, jon, that you're supposed to protect -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right, how can you pass on a fraudulent vote to congress? >> we want to let you know as well, jonathan karl will join us
monday night on our broadcast. let's bring in our leadoff guests on this friday night. jonathan lemire, katie benner, and daniel goldman. good evening and welcome to you all. mr. goldman, i need to begin with you and your legal training. for us laypeople in the audience, what is the significance of the bannon charges? >> the rule of law matters, congressional subpoenas matter. and the department of justice is taking the view that flouting
congressional subpoenas is a crime as criminal statutes dictate. and they're not going to be afraid of a partisan backlash. it's a marker in the sand, if you're going to break the law, no matter if you're a trump supporter or someone who received a pardon from donald trump despite a massive fraud, you're not going to get the benefit of that partisan political interest that donald trump sort of used for the last four years. so i think it's very meaningful, not only to send a message to the witnesses before the january 6th committee, but also to send a message around that the department of justice is back. the rule of law matters. and people who flout the law and got a free ride under donald trump are no longer going to get a free ride. this is one standard of justice
for everyone. >> and katie, you wrote that the bannon case is a litmus test. in your view and in light of your reporting, what else does it potentially mean? >> it shows two things. one, that attorney general garland is going to follow the recommendations of career prosecutors who have done it again and again. and in this case, career prosecutors in the u.s. attorney's office in washington, d.c., they looked at the facts and decided that charges were appropriate. when they were brought to the attorney general's office, he fully supported them. and the other, it's not off the table, the idea that the justice department would basically present cases before a grand jury that are politically fraught. this one is politically fraught. we wondered whether the justice department would weigh in in that way, and they're willing. >> jonathan, any sense, i keep
asking the folks who cover this white house, of how the biden white house is reacting to today's development for one, and how closely they are covering the committee activities? >> sure. publicly they're not saying a whole lot. because they want to have a firewall between the white house and the department of justice. a few weeks ago, president biden was asked what he thought should happen to steve bannon. he suggested that he should be criminally prosecuted. later, the white house had to walk that back. that's just the president's personal opinion, he wasn't trying to steer doj in any certain direction. but of course they're pleased to see this. there was the fear that congress would lose their place as a coequal part of the government. and now, the charges for bannon,
which they believe are good, not just to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th, but also to send the message that this can't happen again. bannon has embraced this. he seems to be willing to be a maga martyr, and perhaps willing to face prosecution and even prison time. but it's not clear that others in the trump orbit will do the same. now, the sights are on mark meadows who realizes he could face similar charges if he does not cooperate. >> dan, let's talk about mark meadows. what should the legal advice be that a guy like mark madows is receiving right about now? >> the legal advice is, you have to show up. there's no excuse for not showing up. recently, a district court dealt with this in the mcgahn case,
and said there's no such thing as absolute immunity. if you have an executive privilege claim, and mark meadows very well may, then you have to show up and you have to make that executive privilege claim in person. the president has to assert it. and, you know, it's important, brian, to take a step back. and there's a lot of discussion about whether donald trump can assert executive privilege, or whether joe biden can. from mark meadows' perspective, it's legitimate for him to say, i don't know who decides executive privilege. but a former president is telling me he wants to invoke executive pprivilege. it's not on me to decide whether it's legitimate or not. it's clear cut that he must show up and testify and he can claim executive privilege or say that
donald trump told him that he may invoke executive privilege. that is a bogus claim, but there's still some legitimacy from mark meadows' perspective. >> got it. all right. katie, mr. bannon, in addition to loving attention, has been a central character in the trump show season one and season two. remind our audience what he might know and how he might know it. >> sure. one of the things that the committee is really interested in is his statement he made on his radio show the day before the attack on the capitol, saying things are going to get really crazy. they want to understand why he felt that way 24 hours before the attack. he was also present at the willard hotel, where there was a lot of activity around the stop the steal rally that took place
earlier that day. so he was in very important spots just before the violence happened. >> that puts him at the center of all this. as chronicled as well in the costa/woodward book, "peril." jonathan, are they getting the message on messaging, and is all of it in danger of being washed aside by gas prices, in the white house? >> certainly, inflation, the consumer price index has sent a shock wave through the white house this week. and they knew it was up. but the sheer numbers of it, and the political fallout, is significant. i talked to aides over the summer who acknowledged this would be a problem. but it seemed to catch them off-guard how quickly it got here, and how significant it is.
this should be a moment of triumph from the white house. we're a week or so from the passage of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. got that through the house. there's a lot of work to be done on the reconciliation bill, and that will begin when congress gets back to washington next week. but this could be, certainly part one is a win, and part two could be, too. the white house believes they'll eventually land that plane, too, and get that bill signed into law. this will make tangible benefits in americans' lives, but you're right, the prices and inflation, that's significant. americans can look at the pump, the gas prices are displayed for all to see. it's a tangible reminder of what is going on. and we're heading into the holidays here, and the rising prices, twinned with a worrisome surge in covid cases, could be a
problem heading into the holiday season. and not what the white house needs. >> dan, you get the last word. at the risk of bumming out a bunch of people in our audience tonight, what is the likely time frame on the steve bannon matter? does this go to trial, is there jury selection, is there the possibility of a plea? what happens? >> there's the possibility of both a plea and a trial, as steve bannon is taking a aggressive tack, and he's enjoying the center of attention. i doubt he has any interest in a plea deal that would require him to testify as a condition of that plea. if it goes to trial, it doesn't go to trial next week. there needs to be the production of all the evidence that goes to him. his attorneys will have an
opportunity to file motions. and then they will set a trial date. but that will be a couple months, most likely, before the trial will begin. and it is a misdemeanor charge. but he could go to jail for up to a year, actually up to two years, because there are two counts. and a total of a $200,000 fine. >> we are so grateful to our starting line on this friday night. to jonathan, katie, dan, thank you so much. have a good weekend. coming up, steve bannon has his date in court, as we've been talking about. will mark meadows be next? why today's bombshell charges should usher in a new era of political warfare, not to be confused with consequences. then, the social spending
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everyone else. mark meadows, call your office. the refusal to show up today will not be looked upon kindly. >> the justice department is sending a message to trump allies to wish to defy house subpoenas. this is the second criminal indictment. trump pardoned him but it doesn't cover insurrection. if mark meadows and others don't fall in line, we're going to hear the reel deal on this tonight, thanks to two friends we have joining us. juanita tolliver, and susan del percio, nbc political analyst and strategist herself. all right, juanita, you heard dan goldman's answer, a polite
way of saying this bannon matter can go on until our grandchildren get old. what do you make of the indictment against bannon and what it may symbolize? >> politically, it couldn't come at a better time. it was 22 days after the house referred krim cal contempt charges, and it has teeth and it's ready to come for any answer who tries to stone wall the investigation. i think dan's analysis is right. he wants to be a martyr. expect appeal after appeal after appeal. bannon is different. other witnesses might not be willing to take a criminal charge for trump. other witnesses may not be able to fight court battle after court battle for trump. so honestly, i'm looking at this
like the signal to the other witnesses like the select committee will come for you with intent. and it's a matter of time before the first witness comes. fighting criminal charges, taking criminal charges is not something that everyone on the list will be willing to do. so keep an eye out for the first witness to reverse course. and i think the committee is not going to slow this down. i was asking myself the question, how cool are the threats to folks like meadows and jeffrey clark, when the committee hasn't had the first referral completed? and now that the criminal charges have been filed and the indictment has been made against bannon, they are ending the say, saying, okay, they need mean. the others are likely taking pause today. >> susan, here is a question. what are republicans saying
about all that? what can they say about all of this? is there still a kind of ghost establishment weighing within the party. like the portmans of the world that find it distasteful but would rather die than say so publicly? >> that is about it. they are so grateful when they don't have to comment on what is happening with the select committee. and any republican who may have a conscious as far as speaking out, we've seen who they are. and two of them happen to be on the select committee. i just want to follow up on something that was just said. witnesses have already given testimony, 150 of them, liz cheney said, have spoken to the select committee, which tells me that republicans internal -- and i'm hearing this, a little nervous about what they're hearing. because they know that liz
cheney knows their playbook. and knows how to play hard ball. and she is a vice chair. it's very intimidating to a lot of republicans who know she knows where the bodies are buried. >> susan, you're not intimating that any republican members of congress know more than others, that any of them had an active or passive role on that day? >> oh, i wouldn't day, brian. i couldn't dare suggest it. but i can say it's been reported. so i do believe the news reports that there are people that have been aware, and some of them have thrown their staffs under the bus. i don't know, but if my staff did it, great. the staff members are talking. and juanita said, they don't have the resources for an attorney. and those who are attorneys, eastman and clark and kayleigh
mcananey, do they want it on the line? i don't think so. >> kayleigh tells people on record she went to harvard law school. both of our guests are going to stay with us. we're going to fit in a break. it's the eve of yet another critical week for the administration. we'll get into what's at stake and what we will be talking about by the time we meet again on monday night. again on monday night. >> there's room to grow... >> ...and lots of opportunities. >> so, what are you waiting for? >> apply now... >> ...and make a difference. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >> man, i love that song!
we all need the american people to make sure the money in the infrastructure plan and the build back better plan, is god willing, we're still going to be able to finish, we will be able to use. if we do it right, we know what it will mean. we know what it will mean. it will create millions of new jobs and it will grow the economy. and we'll win the world economic competition. >> notable today, boden biden held a cabinet meeting. did not go around the room soliciting praise from around the table. he is already facing the next challenges to his agenda. he needs to get enough notes with the build back better plan with yet another government shutdown looming. still with us, juanita tolliver
and susan del percio. susan, think of the challenges, massive spending bill. a big roadblock in the name of a guy who, despite the motor yacht and maserati, is in it for the little guy in west virginia, and then you have the government funding deadline coming up, and on top of all of it, if you ask people, the number one issue in american homes these days, the price of bacon, what we're paying for gas, and the peer these prices are going north for a long while. >> that's right. and brian, that should be the target of this administration. and let me say this it one. the first and second and third thing out of the president's mouth and everyone around him is i'm going to repair this bridge. i'm going to get broadband to this community. be specific. say what you're delivering.
because the president needs politically, in order to get the over things done, he needs to get his approval numbers up. they're any where from the low 40s to the high 30s. he has to be effective. he has to have political play. and that's where he will get it from. from actually saying he delivered. don't talk about build back better until after you sign the first bill you actually have. because right now, people are more concerned -- they are concerned about inflation. they are concerned about covid. jonathan lemire talked about that, and the supply chain and empty shelves at christmas. this is a problem the administration is fixing. they have to tighten the message to the public. and one other thing, when it comes to inflation and joe manchin, he happened to be right a couple months ago when he
started to bring it up. so that is a problem also to translating to more modern democrats. inflation is a problem, and it will be interesting to see how the moderates address that, and if they have a buy in it like a week ago when we saw it pass a bill. >> we never seen juanita driving around washington, d.c. with a maserati. what do you, in your view, agree or disagree with susan, what is the white house saying right, what are they saying or trying to sell they should and b doing? >> look, i agree with susan on a lot of points. they are listing out the ways they are trying to deal with the most immediate issues. like in baltimore, we talked about talking to get ports on west coast operating 24/7 to make sure stores a stocked, and to have what they need and want
going in the holidays. the other thing the white house is doing and starting to talk about the cost cutting measures. and this is why i disagree with susan. talk about build back better, but because yes, more is coming. yes, bridges and broadband are critical for communities to function. but they are not the same as eliminating the cost of child care, prek, reducing medical prescription costs. things that will be helpful to the inflationary impact we're seeing. next week, it's a drum the democrats should be hitting from the white house, as well as president biden deploys his cabinet. mayors and governors to sell it. monday when he signs the bipartisan infrastructure, i expect him to feam size that more is coming, more cost cutting measures to put money
where they need it. i think the other factor here for the president is continuing to contextualize it in a global pandemic that no one planned for, as we know the gop is gearing up their attacks on inflation and blaming it on biden, and a lot is the pandemic and global supply chains as a result. >> i know the audience thanks me in tanks juanita tolliver, and susan del percio. we will do it again. the editor of a local paper in storm lake, iowa, happens to be a putzier prize winning writer, and he is trying to tell us why local media needs to survive when he joining us next. ve when he joining us next. dissolves quickly. instantly ready to start working. so you can bounce back fast with alka-seltzer plus.
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most people in storm lake care more about if garbage getting picked up than if elizabeth warren comes to town. if it didn't to us, it didn't happen. >> our next guest, award winning journalist art cullen stars in a documentary named after the town of storm lake, iowa, airing on pbs. the story of a small local family run newspaper. >> i get real up tight about that. every hour we're late, it costs us 100 bucks. you know, to get all amped up twice a week. >> we are pleased to welcome to the broadcast tonight, the aforementioned art cullen, the
pulitzer prize winner, and the their of "storm lake, change, resilience and hope in america's heartland." do you know how much emails you're going to get from people telling to you quit smoking for starters? >> um, yeah. i've been trying since i was 12. >> all right, well, be ready. people are going to be sending you gum and every cure they discovered along the way. i want to establish the conversation, tell us how big or how small storm lake is, and what kind of town it is. >> well, storm lake is a town of about 10 to 15,000 people. we're not sure how many people actually live here. so many are undocumented immigrants, and the census is not great at counting them all. it's a meat packing town, in soybean and hog country in
northwest, iowa. corn and beans as far as the eye can see. about 90% of the elementary school children of color, and 23 languages are spoken in storm lake. >> i am assuming the indictment of steve bannon is not the number one poppic of conversation in storm lake. i will quickly say, it's not the number one topic of conversation uniformly across the country. but what is these days? >> well, i think inflation is a big topic of discussion right now. especially gas and home heating prices. we had snow this morning, and a 50 miles per hour wind, so you're reminded of natural gas prices. i think that is a source of great anxiety of people and the uncertainty of what's going to happen with the pandemic and all
these supply chain issues. and if there's -- you know, adds to this level of anxiety, i think, across the country. >> when you think about it, and i know you do a lot, we just talk about supply chain. we talk about inflation. we talked about potentially a climb change topic. i'm certain open opioids are a r in town. it's a small town with big city problems? >> well, rather than opioids, i would say meth is a bigger problem in rule iowa than opioids. that said, yeah, there's a lot of big issues swirling around storm lake, climate change being one of them. that's -- it's causing iowa to be wetter and warmer tlur the decades, and just west of us in the dakotas and nebraska and
colorado, they're going extreme drought, and it's affecting agriculture significantly, and farmers are wanting to do something about climate change, and again, i don't think most people in storm lake are not paying a lot of attention to january 6th investigation, or the talks in glasgow for that point. but they are interested in what congress is doing about climate change and agriculture in particular. >> my first reporting job was in kansas, and even though i came from jersey, grew up on the east coast, once i was out there, i remember at least two stories brought in national media, hyatt regency in kansas city, the sky walk collapsed, and the what a different perspective in the national media, i remember
thinking how patronizing they were to local media, and local folks and life in rule kansas. what do national media routinely get wrong about your job? your business and your town? >> well, one thing that i think perhaps national media get wrong is they think we don't what the story is. and in fact, we do. another thing that i think national media gets wrong about the midwest and iowa in particular is that we're just farmers. and you know, there's about 800 farmers in the county, and about 3,000 meat packing workers. again, most of them latino.
it's a much more diverse place than anyone from the outside would imagine. those are two misconceptions, i guess. >> art, you look comfy on a cold night. i'm going to ask you to stay where you are. i'm going to fit in a break and continue our conversation. we'll talk about why local news has been so critical in storm lake and other places just in these recent months. hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ do you take aspirin? plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach.
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i call a hospital to see if anyone had been admitted yet for a symptom that was similar to covid-19. and well, that goes nowhere. >> if we do the right things, we will be all right. we were falling short on testing, falling short of equipment, and a clear and consistent message from local, state and federal shorts. >> >> i know that guy. i know that share. more from storm lake that airs monday on pbs. art, talk about local news. i'm obviously a big believer in it. for civics, the sense of civics, it's essential. it's been tragic to watch these kind of hedge fund group owners come in, zap the money out of local news organizations, destroy them, and leave them a
shell of the way they found them. talk about the challenge, the need for local news in a pandemic. while running a small family business that's been as affected by the pandemic as anything else in town. >> well, yeah, during the pandemic, you know, advertising just dropped through the floor. it went to zero, and we were having a tough time going into the pandemic. so the newspaper industry has been in decline for basically my entire adult career, and it just has been hastening with the internet and craigslist and so on, and then facebook and google and youtube. and so we need to make a digital transition, but we're consumed by printing our newspaper and
devoting the resources to that. it's been very difficult for us. and we've been losing money, and we realize we started a nonprofit foundation, the western iowa journalism foundation, to help family owned newspaper in western iowa survive the pandemic for starters. and we have been a critical source of information when people are trying to find out what's going on at the tyson meat packing plant and how people people were infected, we were the ones beating down the doors to find out and consulting the governor's office to people apprised of what the score was. it was a terribly confusing time for us because of all the obstruction. and it was -- for no apparent reason. and it was a terrible time
financially for us. we bounced back. advertising bounced back a little bit. but it's not going to come back to where it was. so we're going to have to start raising funds to support local journalism. and it's happening in interesting ways across the country. the salt lake tribune, to the philadelphia inquirer, to the seattle times. and we hope that might be a solution, and it appears that it is. the response to the documentary has been tremendous. and it's a good start in broadening the conversation. >> i hope the folks watching tonight will check out the documentary. bless you for the work you're doing. we wish you well out there. art cullen has been our guest tonight. there it is. storm lake, a new newspaper, a family, a community. pbs. our thanks. coming up, it may be a test of how much you can get away
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steve bannon on his podcast today. he received a presidential pardon but it doesn't include an insurrection. with the pace of news and everything that's been going on, everything at play at 1/6, you may wonder how involved could bannon have been in the insurrection effort? this may help. >> it's not going to happen like you think it's going to happen. it's going to be quite extraordinarily different. and all i can say is strap in. the war room, a posse. you have made it happen, and tomorrow, it's game day. president trump, his first term is ending with action, and his second will start with a bang. i guarantee you. this is a huge weekend. there is so much going on behind the scenes, a massive rally. a lot happening this week.
people are getting revved up. people are getting madder as they should. you and i happened to be on a call last night, and you walked people through, can you walk people through the frame work for the week? a lot of tough hombres last night. we had meetings that i came out of last night, and they were still up and going, they were still reviewing the plans for the day at 1:00, 2:00 in the morning. we helped review the information, they are going to converge on that point on the 6th. we have to impose our will. it's like in football, you have to impose your will on the opposition. we are hurdling towards an event on january 6th. we're going to something that's going to be complicated and it's going to be nasty. nothing is going to be more turbulent. we want everyone in the mid-atlantic region to come. this is historic. this is towards how the republic fell and became a totalitarian
empire. we're at that moment, and that's what this week is. are we going to affirm the massive landslide sof donald j. trump or to the forces of darkness. it's a constitutional fights going on behind the scenes. we are on skyping, and the patriots groups, and conservative groups, and the half clarity that january 6th was going to be the day, one of the big days and you had to converge it all down to january 6th. is this a wound that will not heal. we are hurtling towards a process that will make it the impeachment look like a pund mick nick. 48 hours away. >> he's got great. >> consequential american history.
>> some of steve bannon's greatest hits to take us off the air tonight. with that, that is our broadcast this week. thanks for being here with us. have a good weekend, unless you have other plans. on behalf of our cold leers here at nbc news, good night. d night. >> rachel has the night off, she will be back on monday however. here is something that is worth watching if you didn't see today, i'm gonna tell you this is not an exciting piece of tape, in fact it is so bland and normal that if we were living at any other time we might not even bother playing it for you, but this is worth seeing. this was the republican candidate for governor of new jersey today conceding last week's election which he lost in new jersey's incumbent democratic governor. >> to those who are disappointed that i am conceding, to those whose faith in our election system is