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tv   Alex Witt Reports  MSNBC  November 6, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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it clearly took on a life of its own. i mean, they sold $1.5 million worth of t-shirts. they were able to donate money to local charities. people were traveling to four seasons to take photographs. when i was there filming, there were people randomly showing up and taking photos out front. this moment became more than just this internet joke. it became a way for us to realize, you know, we can't take our lives so seriously. we should be able to learn from our mistakes. we should be able to laugh at ourselves and stay humble. and for me, it was just a really sobering moment to remind, wow, like, this is one united country when we can be. >> yeah. all right, well, good lessons there, christopher stout, sean middleton, thank you so much. for all of you, our viewers, we invite you to watch "four seasons total documentary" tomorrow night right here on msnbc. ♪♪
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and a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. here's what's happening. we begin with that breaking news out of washington with the president taking a victory lap today after the house passed a historic bipartisan infrastructure bill. that bill is now just one signature away from becoming law. >> looking more forward to having shovels in the ground, to begin rebuilding america. and for all of you at home who feel left behind and forgotten in an economy that's changing so rapidly, this bill is for you. the vast majority of the thousands of jobs that will be created don't require a college degree. there will be jobs in every part of the country. red states, blue states, cities, small towns, rural communities, tribal communities. this is a blue-collar blueprint to rebuild america. >> meantime, the build back better act also clearing a major hurdle in the house last night,
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although it still has several steps to go before heading to the president's desk. congresswoman pramila jayapal telling me earlier why she is confident that bill will also make it across the finish line. >> this was about, can we look each other in the eye and start to re-establish trust? because that is going to be essential for everything else we need to do. i trust that they looked me in the eye and said they were going to pass the build back better act as soon as they had a chance to look at the fiscal information and that will be transformative. also new developments in the investigation into the january 6th attack on capitol hill. jeffrey clark, you see there, a top doj official in the trump administration, who aided the former president's attempts to overturn the election, failed to answer any questions when meeting with the select committee friday. in a letter obtained by politico, clark's counsel reportedly cites attorney-client privilege, among other things, to justify his client's refusal to cooperate. now with more on all of this, we're going to nbc's lauren egan in delaware. she's with the president and
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gary grumbach is standing by on capitol hill for us. lauren, we're going to start this hour with you. what are we hearing from the president about how he was able to finally get this done? >> reporter: we know that the president was deeply involved in negotiations over the past few days. he was in the oval office yesterday making calls to both moderates and progressives. he's continued to make calls in the white house residents late last night and his message was, we need to get this done and we need to get this done now. he did not want this to drag on any longer, alex. we have been talking and having these conversations now for almost seven months, and he wanted to see this finally get across the finish line. just a few hours ago, he spoke at the white house about how he was finally able to pull this off. listen to what he had to say. >> i've been doing this thing any whole life. i've been able in the senate to put things together when people said they couldn't be put together just by making the overwhelming point that you can't have all you want.
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it's a process. there's no one piece of legislation that's going to solve everybody's problems. the fact that it has too much where you don't want and more than -- not enough where you don't want, just let's -- let's be reasonable. let's take a look at this. let's do what we all agree at a minimum is in the interest of the american people. >> reporter: alex, the president there used that speech to really take a victory lap to tout this bipartisan infrastructure bill, and we expect him to continue to highlight this going into next week. he said in that speech that he has plans next week to go and visit some ports, presumably those will be ports that will benefit from this infrastructure bill. we also expect him to hold a signing ceremony at the white house in the coming days with both democrats and republicans in attendance to really underscore that this is a bipartisan bill and a bipartisan win that the president did deliver on. what we did not hear from the president during that speech,
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though, was anything about a solid commitment that he can get his build back better agenda across the finish line. he has said that he hopes that congress will pass it in the coming weeks on november 15th after congress comes back from their recess, but he was unable to make a firm, solid commitment that that can actually happen, and he also said that he was not able to really commit to some of the provisions -- popular provisions in that bill such as paid family leave. he said we'll have to wait and see what ends up happening, so while the white house is definitely celebrating this huge victory, not just for biden but for the country, these investments, much-needed investments in our infrastructure, we still got a long ways to go on the second part of the president's agenda. >> yeah, 100%. i mean, you got to let congress do its thing and see what happens. thank you so much, lauren, for that. let's turn now to gary grumbach on capitol hill for us. walk us through exactly what's in this massive infrastructure bill. you know, almost signed, sealed and delivered and what are democrats saying about coming together to get it done? >> reporter: hey, alex, this is focused on hard infrastructure, things like roads and bridges
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and tunnels, basically if you travel in it or on it, there was probably money in this bill for it. so let's dive in and show you exactly what we mean by that. there's $110 billion for roads and bridges, $39 billion for public transit, $25 billion for airports, and $66 billion for amtrak and rail. it also includes billions of dollars for energy, clean drinking water, and broadband. these are things that will make a significant difference in rural areas of this country. now, while this was a bipartisan vote that happened last night, it was not unanimous. there were six democrats -- six members of the congressional progressive caucus -- that voted no on this. i want to have you listen to congresswoman jayapal about why that happened. >> they would have been with us had we reversed the order of the bills and done the rule first and the bif second, which we
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tried to get for quite some time. but they also had tremendous principle in feeling that, you know, they were -- look, this is a hard situation where trust has disintegrated on so many levels. i have been clear, alex, to never call out people because i believe we have to work together, and i think we just got to recognize that we have very slim margins. >> reporter: and those slim margins aren't going to get any better when we're talking about the human infrastructure part of this second bill, things like child care, paid family leave, and provisions related to the climate. so it's going to be a real slog through the next few weeks because this is not the only thing on congress's agenda before the end of the year. they've got to raise the debt limit. they've got to fund the government and also pass the national defense authorization act as well, alex. >> i'm going to speak with senator ben cardin after the next commercial break and ask him a bunch of questions like i've been asking you, my friend. thank you so much. turning to breaking news out
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of houston, texas, a city still reeling after deadly chaos broke out overnight. at least eight people have died. dozens more have been injured when a crowd surged forward at the astroworld festival and joining me now is reporter for the "houston chronicle." welcome to you. first of all, any indication from authorities exactly how and why this happened? >> they're still actively trying to go through that right now. i spoke to the fire chief very early this morning at about 3:00 a.m., and what he said was that kind of around 9:30, last night, as travis scott went on stage, there was sort of a press forward of people, and that's when sort of things started to go south. i mean, it's important to remember it was a huge crowd of, like, 50,000 people, and they were very amped up to see the show. >> yeah, really tightly packed in. we're looking at aerials right
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now, and you can just see lots of people packed into a pretty tight space there. during that press conference overnight and, by the way, thanks for joining us if you were up at 3:00 a.m. for that one. there was a law enforcement official who mentioned a rumor -- i just want to underscore rumor -- that drugs were involved. any more clarity, anything you know about that? >> no. that's also one of the things that we're looking at. i did talk to one houston police official who had posited that just because of some of the video and the way that people were looking but i want to be very clear. we've been contacted by a lot of concert goers who talked about just how compressed the whole situation was, how difficult it was to breathe at times, and you know, seeing people, like, getting trampled on. so that's still pretty much a situation that is going to require more reporting and more investigation. >> so, i just want to make something clear, st. john and you may not have a television there where you can see what
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we're showing but we showed aerials of the concert and how it was tightly packed in. we're showing video from earlier in the day, and if i can have rob go back to that. this the daylight and you look at people, they are rushing, getting in or out. i can't really tell what it is. i'm presuming getting in. was there any consideration given to canceling this concert because it looked incredibly unruly and unsafe. >> so, i don't have that answer for you. i have seen some of very similar video as this, people sort of pouring in, and i know that was something that people were concerned about and had been an issue in a previous astroworld, i think, in the before times, before the pandemic. there's a press conference at 3:00 p.m., and i think some of these questions will be hopefully answered and a lot more. there's still a ton of information that we're waiting on. >> okay.
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well, that's, then, coming up, and we'll be covering that as well. hey, st. jean with the "houston chronicle," thank you so much. i know it's been a long day for you so i appreciate your insights. meantime, let's go to the racially charged murder trial of ahmaud arbery and the controversy over the jurors. a nearly all-white jury heard the opening arguments friday in a brunswick courtroom. three white men are accused of chasing arbery, a 25-year-old black man, through a georgia suburban neighborhood before fatally shooting him last year. already, the prosecutors and defense are offering some wildly different theories on what happened that fateful february day. nbc's liz mclaughlin is in brunswick, georgia, with more on this for us. first of all, take a look at the courtroom yesterday. tell us what we heard there. what was your interpretation of that? >> reporter: well, in these opening statements, alex, we heard two wildly different pictures that were painted of those events as they went down on february 23rd, 2020. now, the defense is saying that
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the actions of those three white men were justified, that they were legal under georgia law and essentially a citizen's arrest gone horribly wrong. the prosecution says this is murder, cold-blooded murder, and they actually had no right to even be chasing him to begin with. and they wasted no time to show that infamous video that has been circulating online of those final moments when ahmaud arbery is struggling with the shotgun and travis mcmichael shoots ahmaud arbery in the chest three times with a pump action shotgun. gruesome video, and one that ahmaud arbery's mother, wanda cooper jones, saw for the first time in that courtroom. the jury also heard the first testimony of the case, clinton county officer william duggan, one of the first on the scene, described a gruesome account. here's what he had to say about his interaction with travis mcmichael. >> i could see he was covered in blood. there was blood all over.
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i remember at some point asking if he was okay. >> and what did that man covered in blood, seated over there, say to you when you asked him, are you okay? >> he -- it was a quick reply of, basically, no, i'm not okay. i just f'ing killed somebody. >> reporter: and that wasn't just words that the jury heard. they saw body cam video of that gruesome scene, travis mcmichael covered in blood saw ahmaud arbery face down on the pavement, really horrific imagery that the jury has, in their minds this weekend, that they are working on. on this murder trial is very different because it's not what happened that we're questioning. we're not hearing about alibis. we know the what. it's the why that's really on trial here. and that's where we might hear more about racism and its role in that case. evidence is admissible that could prove racial bias, that
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the prosecution could use, including text messages from one of the defendants that uses racial slurs, things like that, about two weeks, a month until a verdict is found. these defendants could see life in prison if convicted. >> liz mclaughlin, thank you so much. up next, what will that social spending bill look like once the senate gets done with it? just what needs to be in it? i'm going to speak with a leading voice in the senate in just a moment. ading voice in the senate in just a moment. (tiger) this is the dimension of imagination. ♪ ♪
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well, democrats are pushing president biden's agenda forward. the house passing that bipartisan infrastructure bill overnight. progressives and moderates also reached an agreement to pass the social spending package on a key procedural vote. >> really want to thank my colleague here for working so closely together these last months. i'm so grateful for it. and i know together, we're going to help move our country forward in the greatest country in the world and pramila, i want to
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thank you again so much. >> we're going to trust each other because the democratic party is together on this. we are united that it is important for us to get both bills done. >> well, joining me now from glasgow, scotland, is maryland senator ben cardin, a democratic member of the finance and foreign relations committees. senator, it's always a pleasure to welcome you to the show here, especially long distance like this, and we'll make the point that you are at that u.n. climate change conference right now. we are going to get to that in just a few moments but i do want to begin with the president's build back better agenda, the bipartisan infrastructure bill, that's passed now. how significant, sir, is it for democrats to come together and show americans they can get something done? >> well, alex, it's good to be with you. it's extremely important that we get this done. the infrastructure is desperately needed for our country. the build back better budget is desperately needed. i can tell you the passage in the house of the infrastructure bill was very welcome news here
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in scotland and teeing up the vote on the build back better budget is equally just incredibly important news. it's not only that we can govern. it's that we can govern in a way that's going to help americans in their affordability of their essentials and life, whether it has to do with child care or whether it has to do with the child credits that we have in this bill. these are just critically important issues that affect americans' way of life, and obviously, the message on the climate change, u.s. leadership was demonstrated by the house action just yesterday. >> yeah. senator, we have the ultimate vote on the president's social spending package being delayed itself until mid-november. this procedural rule, to what you were pointing there, that now sends it to the senate. we've seen several deadlines, though, come and go with this legislation. what do you see as the timeline for both the senate to first do its part, vote, send it back to the house for that final vote, and do you think you can get it
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done before thanksgiving, really, in this year? will it be done by the end of this year? >> i'm very confident it will be done by the end of this year, but the next step is the passage in the house. we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. we've got to get the bill passed in the house and that should take a place the week after next. it then has to go through a parliamentary review by the parliamentarian in the united states senate and there may be modifications that are required. we then have to go over that with the house, make sure we're all together, make sure we have 50 votes in the senate, then the senate passes it and the house passes it so it's going to take some time. we recognize that. but at the end of the day, we're going to get it done. >> okay. i'd love to talk about your democratic colleague, senator joe manchin. he has been getting some fierce criticism from some house progressives as he is defending his position on the build back better legislation. congresswoman cori bush, tweeting this, writing in part, joe manchin's opposition to the build back better act is anti-black, anti-child, anti-woman, and anti-immigrant. the senator, sir, responding to
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that tweet this week. take a listen to him. >> i would just say the congresswoman doesn't know me. she doesn't know me. and i'm happy to talk to her. i think maybe she'll have a different opinion. we can have a difference of opinion. the rhetoric around here has gotten so harsh and so toxic that you can't agree to disagree anymore. you can't sit down and say, okay, i disagree with you, and you say, joe, do we agree on the same problem? yeah, let's start working. tell me what you think would fix it. that's not happening. >> senator, talk about the tenor around these negotiations because many have told me, this is what creating legislation looks like. but what is the message that americans are taking from the many challenges of getting democrats on the same page and bringing the benefits of these bills to the people and will republicans pay a steep price for not supporting these programs? >> well, that's a good question, because we don't have a single republican vote to make child
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care more affordable for the american public or to deal with poverty with the child credits, the earned income tax credits or to deal with the other important parts, affordable housing and the list goes on and on and on. so, yes, we are very disappointed we have no republican support. but recognize we have a 50/50 senate so we need to get all 50 senators together on the same page on this bill. there's been tremendous progress made. if you think about what's happened over the last four or five or six weeks, we have narrowed the differences to a point where the house is now poised to act. we'll get it together and it will be some more negotiations and we'll have to talk to each other, but we're committed, all 50 democratic senators are committed to getting to the finish line and we're going to get to the finish line. >> so, then, let me ask you about senator manchin's approach to the negotiations, despite his very strong stances, sir, when it comes down to it, when the vote is taken, would he potentially be the lone democrat to tank president biden's build
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back better legislation from passing in the senate? >> we're not anticipating that will happen. we will continue to negotiate until we have our 50 votes. but at that point, as i said, we're not there yet, because first the house has to act and then we have to listen to the parliamentarian so we're not at the point where we can see the final version of this bill, but i think we're close enough to say that we have consensus to move forward and we're going to get it done. >> okay. a different topic here for senate republicans who have blocked a fourth attempt now by democrats to begin considering voting rights legislation this week. your democratic colleague, senator tom carper, wrote an op-ed saying no barrier, not even the filibuster, must stop our obligation to our democracy. you, sir, have long advocated for eliminating the filibuster and now senator carper comes out with his support for reform. majority leader schumer was hinting at reform this week. has the breaking point been
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reached on voting rights? >> i think the breaking point has been reached and passed in regards to the abuse of the filibuster. it was never intended to block legislation from debate on the floor of the united states senate, which is supposed to be the greatest deliberative body in the world and we can't even get voting rights up for debate? senator carper is absolutely correct. it's time that we get rid of the filibuster, particularly as it relates to constitutional issues such as a person's right to vote. we would hope that the republicans would join us in this bill but they won't even vote to allow us to debate the issue. so, we have to look at ways in which we can protect the rights of the people of this country to the fundamental principles of democracy and that is the right to vote. >> okay. let's go back to the u.n. climate change conference there in glasgow. tell us about your efforts and how much progress you think is being made battling this global issue. >> well, alex, i can tell you, we've been very well received.
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america's leadership is very much noticed here. president biden's visit and presentations, his words and deeds were very much recorded. we're on record saying that the commitments we made in cop21 to limit global warming to no more than a 1.5 degrees celsius, that we have to make that a reality. that means each nation, every nation must do more. and we have to have a way for periodic review and transparency to make sure that we accomplish these goals. and i think america's leadership on those principles have been very much effective in getting many nations to move to a much more, i would say, relevant requirements, so we're here talking about what we've done in the united states. our development of alternative fuels, what we're doing in regards to the infrastructure bill to deal with electric vehicles and charging stations, what we have in the build back better budget to deal with
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developing a real infrastructure for clean energy and for environmental protection in our agricultural community. it's a pretty strong message that we have here, and we are optimistic that cop26, this meeting, will produce really significant progress towards meeting the goal we set in 2015 in paris. >> okay. well, i'm sure your leadership, sir, is very much appreciated. safe travels back home when you take off and thank you so much for your time with us. good to see you. despite telling reporters he was, quote, immunized, packers quarterback aaron rodgers says he's not vaccinated against covid, so what he's now saying about getting the virus and the questionable method he's now using as a treatment for covid. that's next. t. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark.
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green bay packers quarterback aaron rodgers is speaking out after his controversial admission that he is unvaccinated. the nfl star has been sidelined from this sunday's game and is
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now also under investigation by the league. nbc's guad venegas is joining me now. >> reporter: alex, there's a lot of questions after we heard him speak. he told this podcast where he spoke that he did not agree with the way the league treated him because he's not vaccinated. let's hear part of that interview with rodgers. >> had there been a follow-up to my statement that i had been immunized, i would have responded with this. i would have said, look, i'm not, you know, some sort of anti-vax flat-earther. i'm somebody who's a critical thinker. you guys know me. i march to the beat of my own drum. >> reporter: now, rodgers said he received what he said was, quote, an immunization protocol. trying to understand it, we've
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done some research. according to nfl.com instead of getting vaccinated, he would have received a homeopathic treatment from his doctor, then asked the nfl to count that as being vaccinated. rodgers himself did not specifically say this on the show. he said that the treatment he is doing is between him and his medical team. rodgers did say that he is allergic to ingredients in the mrna vaccines and had concerns about the j&j shot's side effects so he received this immunization protocol, which has not been proven to provide immunity against covid. now, he faces an nfl investigation. this is because of questions of whether he followed league covid protocols. this is, you know, regarding rules with the masking for players also when they go to gatherings, he went on a gathering in halloween and we know that it is required for them to wear masks at press conferences, something that he did not do. now, after contracting covid this week, he also says that he's consulted with joe rogan on how to beat it, taking
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monoclonal antibodies and ivermectin, a drug used to treat livestock that we know the fda has advised against so this is what we know. and i should also add that he says he's feeling much better. he is recovering from the symptoms, although he will not be playing this sunday in the next green bay game, alex. >> yeah. well, whatever he's doing, he got covid, and i guess that can be said about those who have said those breakthrough infections as well, but nonetheless, some controversy. back to the big news from washington. president biden today touting the passage of his bipartisan infrastructure bill. some much-needed good news after a turbulent week for democrats who suffered a major blow in the virginia gubernatorial race. a new column on msnbc.com, however, says what happened in virginia tuesday does not mean democrats are doomed for the midterms. so, joining me now, the journalist who wrote that piece, apparently the optimist, hayes brown, editor and columnist for msnbc daily. good to have you back on the show.
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and you know, you write that terry mcauliffe's loss isn't the predictor of 2022 results that some are already claiming. but why not? because you know there are others who sounded less optimistic. >> absolutely. so, i'm not saying that there's a zero percent chance that there's any sort of linkage between what happened in the virginia governor's race and what happens in 2022. what i'm saying is that there's a lot of people out there who are trying to make the case that there's an automatic causation sort of effect, you know, that because we saw this loss in virginia, which has been a state where the governor has been a democrat for a very long time now, it feels like, to his republican challenger, that we're automatically going to be seeing a loss for democrats in midterms, that whatever youngkin managed to pull off in virginia would be replicated around the country somehow in enough congressional races, which are very different than gubernatorial races, that we may as well just say the republicans
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retake the house, period, and i don't believe that. i believe that elections have way more factors than we can map out from this single race in virginia. >> well, look, was tuesday a wake-up call of sorts for democrats and isn't a lot better to get that wake-up call now, november 2021, than november 2022 during the midterms? >> i think wake-up call is a good way to put it. when are democrats ever really optimistic, feeling great about their chances in elections? that doesn't really -- that's not really on brand for them. so, there might be worries going into 2022 no matter what, even if mcauliffe had won in virginia. there would still be people who were really concerned about x number of things that could lose the democrats the house and the midterms, and those things are still factors. let's be real. there are still, like, the political climate that is out there right now is tough. biden's approval ratings are down. but i mean, i think that there
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are a number of things that could change between now and 2022 that means that we should not be looking at this one race or even looking to new jersey where governor murphy won by a narrower margin than people were expecting as absolute predictors of 2022. >> when you say a lot of things can change, what about what's happened in the last, i was going to say, 12 hours but i guess it's more like 18. when you look at capitol hill, they've made those calls, passed one big bill, the likelihood is there to pass the second bill. big bill, rather, not a done deal. but nonetheless, i mean, there's a lot that can happen and has happened. >> yeah, absolutely. absolutely. so, i'm sure everyone is relieved that we're finally getting to the point where we're no longer talking about bills but acts that have passed and will have the president's signature on them. the biden administration has been, for months now, prepping to -- how to actually implement the provisions within both this bipartisan infrastructure act that passed last night and the
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broader build back better agenda that is still going through the wringer, really, in congress right now. so, i'm sure they're excited to be talking about what's actually to be done to put this -- put people to work, get bridges, roads, et cetera, fixed, broadband expanded to rural areas. i'm sure they're excited to stop talking about what's happening on the hill and start talking about what's happening in the districts once this is actually put into place. >> i'm going to pick up on your somewhat optimistic tone overall by what you wrote because wednesday was one thing. even thursday, the prophecies of doom and gloom or we've got to do this or change this and oh, what happened, blah, blah, blah, we look what happened friday as well with the jobs numbers. again, political fortunes can change very quickly in this country. it seems to have blunted the negativity around tuesday. maybe not for terry mcauliffe and his team, okay, but you know, in general, this has been very good news. when did the backs of democrats at this point. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, i feel like there are so
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many factors outside of politicians' control that affect how people see them. and i think that's something that must drive political analysts and political operatives crazy trying to figure out what those things are because you try and look at these myriad factors like, if, for example, you run these counterfactual scenarios. if the infrastructure bill had passed, would mcauliffe have won? maybe, possibly not, because the jobs were still not created in virginia. maybe he could have talked about the passage a little bit more but youngkin would still have been running his education strategy of trying to get, you know, white virginians worried about critical race theory and gender taught in classrooms. i mean, that still would have been the same. the mcauliffe campaign still probably would have been focused on trying to compare youngkin to trump, which i think is one of the biggest takeaways from that election, that, you know, democrats are going to need to shift a little bit since trump
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is not on the ballot, talking about things that they're actually doing and things that they have passed now, hopefully, by the time we get there. >> point well taken. all of them, in fact, hayes brown, thank you so much, my friend. two very controversial jury selections and why that's led to an uphill battle for prosecutors before a single word is said in the courtroom. word is said in the courtroom. bipolar depression. it made me feel like i was trapped in a fog. this is art inspired by real stories of people living with bipolar depression. i just couldn't find my way out of it. the lows of bipolar depression can take you to a dark place... ...and be hard to manage. latuda could make a real difference in your symptoms. latuda was proven to significantly reduce bipolar depression symptoms and in clinical studies, had no substantial impact on weight. this is where i want to be. latuda is not for everyone. call your doctor about unusual mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults.
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nearly all-white jury was selected for the trial of three men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. during opening statements on friday, the defense and the prosecution painted two dramatically different interpretations of the day arbery was killed. >> there was probable cause to believe a felony had been committed and that this man was attempting to escape or flee. arbery makes a left, not a right, makes a left and is on travis such that travis has no choice but to fire his weapon in self-defense. >> stop or i'll blow your head off. that's what he said to mr. arbery. mr. arbery was trapped like a rat. that's what he told the police. trapped like a rat. >> joining me now is joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst, former u.s. attorney and professor at the university of alabama school of law. what is your reaction, joyce, to the self-defense strategy?
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>> well, it's an interesting strategy. it's probably the only strategy available to these defendants on these facts, and this is, alex, why cases go to trial, when cases aren't close, usually they result in guilty pleas on the terms that are the most potentially favorable to defendants. but here, the stories told by both sides are in sharp contrast. the prosecution has a lot of its evidence on video, and they're already, in opening statement, beginning to play that evidence for the jury, ultimately the jury will have to resolve these two very different versions of what happened that day. >> yeah, for sure. what about the growing controversy around the jury in this case made up of 11 white jurors, 1 black juror. take a listen to what the presiding judge had to say about the discrepancy. >> this court has found that there appears to be intentional discrimination in the panel. quite a few african-american
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jurors were excused through preemptory strikes exercised by the defense, but that doesn't mean that the court has the authority to reseat. >> as a former u.s. attorney, what's your reaction to this? >> the law in this area is relatively complicated and it stems from a case called batson that sets up a three-step procedure for challenging jurors when one side or the other in a case believes that racial animus has entered into decision making, and the problem here is that the judge followed that statutory process fairly precisely, and it yielded this result that's unsatisfying on its face. this situation is different. here we have the prosecution being unhappy with the jury that's seated. the prosecution will have no opportunity to challenge this result on appeal. if there's not an acquittal or rather, if there's an acquittal,
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the prosecution can't appeal. if there's a conviction, it will be the defense that will ultimately be making challenges on appeal. the only good thing to say about this process is that because it benefits the defendants in some sense, it will simply remove one additional argument that they could make on appeal if they're convicted. >> i'm glad you anticipated the question i was going to ask about that, which brings us to another high-profile case now, the juror -- a juror, rather, in the kyle rittenhouse trial has already been dismissed after that person made a joke about the kenosha police shooting of jacob blake. >> jury selection is designed to determine whether jurors can set aside their preexisting knowledge and any biases and make a decision in the case based solely on the evidence that they hear in the courtroom. that's all that the lawyers and judge are trying to determine in voir dire when potential jurors are questioned and either excluded or seated.
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this situation with this juror who's now been excused is something that comes up occasionally. there's a remark, there's an inappropriate conversation, perhaps with a witness or a lawyer from one side or the other, and the juror is excused. i can't draw any conclusions about the jury pool or the process from this one incident. i think it's encouraging that the judge responded quickly, had the juror removed, and made this effort to preserve the jury in this case. >> okay. let's end then on a positive note there. joyce vance, always good to see you, my friend. thank you so much. so, it's always hard to predict how history might judge some of the more sweeping pieces of legislation passed in this country but we like predictions around here, especially when they're made by smart people and my next guest will bring us that perspective. ctive. e progress, wt keep taking steps forward. we believe the future of energy is lower carbon. and to get there, the world needs to reduce global emissions. at chevron, we're taking action. tying our executives' pay
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talk to your doctor. ♪♪ be in your moment. ask your doctor about ibrance. it was a big day for president biden as he saw one of his biggest policy items make it to his desk overnight, and speaking today, the president said it's a historic moment. >> i truly believe that 50 years
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from now, folks are going to look back and say, this was the moment, this was the period, this year and the next couple years when america decided to win the competition in the 21st century. >> which brings me now to mark, a presidential historian and the president and ceo of the lbj foundation. good to see you again, mark, particularly in this context. so, there was the president saying this is one for the history books, and you're the historian. where do you expect this moment to line, the trajectory of joe biden's presidency? >> well, this is a big moment, without question. joe biden realizes, after his electoral mandate earlier this year, that political capital is ephemeral and it starts to fade. we saw with the elections that just occurred that your political strength can fade very, very quickly and it portends, potentially, tough results in the midterms next year so you have to make hay while the sun shines and that's what joe biden has done. it's been a tough road, but he
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finally got something through. it's a signature bill, very, very important step forward. he still has miles to go before he sleeps, but this is a nice and important win for joe biden as he continues his presidency. >> and this infrastructure victory on top of yesterday's better than expected job numbers really kind of put tuesday's election results into a certain perspective and they seem a little far in the rear view mirror at this point, but are these enough wins for president biden to move on? how have other presidents handled moments like this? >> you know, it's said, alex, as you know, a week is an eternity in politics, and with the news cycle faster than ever, i think that it's even one day is an eternity in politics. for joe biden, as i mentioned, he has so much he wants to accomplish in his very ambitious presidency, so he has to look forward. he has to look at the battles ahead and i think one thing that you note, if you look at other
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presidents who have been in situations like this, bill clinton, for instance, who won re-election in 1996 by 10 percentage points over his republican rival, bob dole, was at this point in his presidency very weak. in fact, "time" magazine ran a cover story called, the incredible shrinking president after he had won the presidency in 1992 as sort of this relatively unknown democrat, he had a 36% approval rating in june, just four months after taking the presidency. voters thought he was too liberal, and so he pivoted to the middle. he scrapped his very ambitious healthcare plans, very progressive healthcare plans, and he listened to the electorate and he pivoted back and he won the favor of the american people. i think joe biden can learn a lesson from bill clinton by moderating his policy and listening to the american people. >> and also, joe manchin really propping up lbj and saying that
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he in his lifetime cannot reflect on anyone who understands the process better than lbj and how this works. do you agree? was that his mastery? >> i certainly -- you know, there's no question. he was a master of the legislative process. there are very few who rival lbj. he understood not only the legislative process, but he understood the legislators with whom he was dealing and he knew that one tactic that might work for you might not work for another, so flattery might work for you, cajoling might work for me. these were things he understood intuitively. hubert humphrey said he was like a psychiatrist, he could read into your mind and psyche and know what motivated you and know that what motivated you, alex, might be very different than what motivated me. >> sound like a talent for a president to have, mark. thank you for sharing, good to see you. that's going to do it for me. i'll see you again tomorrow at noon eastern. my friend, yasmin vossoughian, continues our coverage. our covee
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good afternoon, everybody, i'm yasmin vossoughian. we are following news on a number of fronts this hour. at least eight dead at a concert stampede in texas. the president seizing on momentum hailing the passage of a bill that will send hundreds of millions of dollars to americans in all 50 states. but he's also keeping up the
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