tv Katy Tur Reports MSNBC November 5, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
powell now in the hearse. his family members lining the steps of the national cathedral behind me here as they say go back to a great lion, in the words of his son, somebody who embodied not just the values of a true professional, a warrior/statesman as you heard former secretary of state madeleine albright describe him, but someone who you heard from his son michael was a warm and loving father, who loved to tinker with cars, who loved to spend time with his family members, as busy as he was. helaine cooper, that stood out as much as the recitations of his professional accomplishments, the kind of dad, friend, and colleague he was. >> yeah, it definitely did. funerals are more for the living than for the dead. in this case the funeral, the
service, i think, was certainly a comfort to everybody there. i certainly felt comforted watching this. it's such a -- it's such a familiar yet very washington scene, seeing all of these familiar faces that we've all known for so long. i was particularly struck by, you know, looking at linda powell holding her mom's hand during the service. the dignity of alma powell, who was sitting there in what you have to imagine were pearls given to her by her husband, and just holding it together. i thought michael powell's eulogy for his father was heartbreaking in some ways. it was beautiful, but he reminded us in so many different things about general powell which i had forgotten. i forgot about the cars, he was
obsessed with cars, had a total car fixation. >> he loved his volvos. >> not just volvos, though, he loved all sorts of different cars. i've read stories about this and talked to him about this. the incident on his way to -- >> not to interrupt, i thought it was lovely that either he or one of his family members had recounted how even towards the end when he had become sick, he was dealing with that blood cancer, multiple myeloma, he would drive to the hospital in his corvette, he drove himself there in that car. >> that incident that michael, i think it was michael talked about, maybe it was richard armitage, i can't remember, about him getting a flat tire. he was on his way to walter reed hospital when he got that flat tire. and it was a member of the military who came out, powell wanted to say i can change this tire by myself, i'm the car guy, but he got help.
that's a beautiful memory. i laughed outright, that, you know, is -- >> then it was also seeing these former presidents sitting there. george bush, george w. bush sitting next to michelle obama with their weird and strange and wonderful relationship. the two of them get along so well, they always make a point to sit next to each other. the two of them are there between barack obama and laura bush. the whole thing felt very -- i keep harping on, it felt familiar, because i know that's a weird thing to say about a funeral but it felt like a familiar comfort, almost, in a way. i just think there is so much about general powell that we were reminded of today, the seminal human theme. we don't even mention his service as a young military
officer. the guy was in vietnam twice, he has a purple heart because he was in a helicopter crash and ran back to pull out three people. there's so much about him that we know but we've forgotten because he's done so much. i found i'm glad i sat and watched this today, i think it was a comfort. i hope other people got comfort from this service as well, particularly his family. >> it's such a lovely thought. helene cooper, thank you so much for joining us, for watching this service with us and for being with us today, we thank you for that. eugene robinson, let me bring you into the conversation. did you too find comfort in this? >> i did, i learned a couple of things i hasn't known. i didn't know about his passion for caribbean music, jamaican
music, every saturday he tuned into the caribbean music show on wpfw and listened to bob marley. that's not the image i had of colin powell. i do think this funeral was a great comfort to those multitudes who knew him. even those who didn't particularly know him that well who might have met him once or twice felt they knew him because he gave so much of himself in every encounter. he was generally interested in what you had to say, in what you were doing, and he followed up. and this is a regret, i recall running into him in a social function in new york, shortly before the pandemic, he invited me to come up to new york to see
what he was doing with a school up there. he followed up with a handwritten note, saying, no, i'm serious, come up and do that. i was going to do that and of course the pandemic happened and nobody went anywhere. i never got to do that. i regret it. but it was a perfect, i think, funeral for colin powell. it was touching, it was -- it reflected what a real important person he had been in the life of this nation over the last quarter century or more. it spoke to his family in an
intimate way that i hope gave comfort to them the same way it gave comfort to me and many people who watched it. >> peter baker, i know you spoke with a top republican who had conversations with colin powell in the last weeks before his death, tell us about that. >> yeah, we talk here about the family and how powerful that was as part of the service. i did talk to -- talked to someone who had talked to general powell, he said he was optimistic, the parkinson's bothered him, the tremble in his man, what worried him most was about alma, they had both had covid. she was having a tough time with it, she was in a wheelchair. what was striking, i think, there he was in the final days
of his life, not realizing of course that they were the final days of his life, worried not about himself but about his wife, the woman he shared so many years with, shared his experiences and adventures with. none of many of the people who were there spoke, the past presidents didn't speak. he didn't need presidents to validate him. the people he chose or were chosen for him, his friends of years, armitage, his partner in career and in service, his son, of course, michael, who has, you know, emulated him in so many ways, in his own public service, and his peer, madeleine
albright, from another party, who could speak to him as, you know, a warrior/diplomat, as she put it. those are the people chosen to speak for him on this day as we mark his life and his service. >> peter, to the point you're making, it was i think rather remarkable, when we heard from richard armitage, just how i want to say personable that eulogy was. it was about funny stories, interesting stories about colin powell that maybe folks hadn't heard before, like getting down on one knee and singing "mamma mia" to the swedish foreign minister. colonel jacobs, i wonder if that struck you as well. it was clear richard armitage wanted to show, hey, colin powell is all of these wonderful things, former secretary of state, former chair of the joint chiefs of staff, et cetera, but he's also a really good friend, a really good person. >> well, what's interesting is that everybody there, and a lot
of people who weren't there, who knew colin powell well, richard armitage saying that was sort of preaching to the converted. everybody knew that. everybody knew that among all his skills, he was a great guy on top of that. it was important that he say that, however, on national television, in this public forum so that everybody else knew that too. i would be willing to bet that everybody who listened to that, who didn't know colin powell, at the end of this service, felt they know colin powell just like he was a friend because that was the kind of guy he was. one further thing, i don't want to leave the impression he was just one happy go lucky guy. he was, but i'm telling you, if he heard you speak rubbish, he could be incredibly incisive and correct you in a second.
and with pointed correction that would stay with you for the rest of your life. that's what he was all about, he was serious about being serious. and he was an awfully nice guy on top of it. >> and colonel jack, i wonder too if you can speak to peter's lovely anecdote, even in his final days, final weeks, secretary powell was focused on the woman who had been his partner for five plus decades, focused on alma and her health and how she was doing. that's where his concern and his focus was. >> well, everything about him was god, country, and family. that was it. there were few things more important than those things. he and alma were inseparable. it was very difficult for them to be separated. and they spent a lot of time separated, nobody likes that. you mentioned earlier, you got colin, you got alma too. you got them both.
i don't know who it was who asked the question about his running for -- maybe it was in a previous hour, about there was a groundswell of opinion that he should have run for president and what about that, how come he didn't run. there is that anecdote, not to be entirely disbelieved, that alma said "you're not doing it." and she said, supposedly, "there are two votes in this family and i've got both of them, you're not doing it." >> peter, we also heard, and you touched on this, from former secretary of state madeleine albright as well, who talked about her relationship developing with secretary powell over time. i know colin powell had talked about it, she had talked about it some, they were having a bit of a disagreement where they were working together where secretary albright had sought to use more force, i believe it was, she wanted to see more use of military force in the balkans
and secretary powell did not want to see that. he wrote later in his book that he nearly had an aneurysm. and she called him up later and said, really? they had developed such a deep and important friendship to her. >> that's right, her quote, if i remember it from that meeting, was reported to be, general, why do we have this great shiny military if we can't take it out and use it every once in a while. i think that reflected something about general powell. he had been to war, helene cooper described his own service, he earned the purple heart. he knew the war wasn't abstract, it was something where you sit back and watch the pieces come together in some geopolitical game. real people, real bullets, real blood, real death. he was always a reluctant warrior, in the first gulf war, even though that's where he made his bones as a national figure,
in the inner councils of that administration, with jim baker who was secretary of state at the time, they raised questions. they were concerned, looking to see if there was some other way out without going to war. once it had to be done, he was all in, he of course developed the powell doctrine, if you're going to do it, you're going to do it right, not let it drag out into something like vietnam. he did not want to go to war. he didn't want to go to war the first time in iraq, he didn't want to go to war the second time in iraq, he didn't want to go to war in the balkans. in the modern military era, they believe in the use of force when necessary but let's be very careful how we define necessary. >> and the other piece, he's also well-known i think for that sort of famous so-called pottery barn rule, telling former president bush, you break it, you bought it, basically. eugene, i wonder if you want to join in on this part of the
conversation. >> do i. i'm reflecting on the fact that, first of all, everybody knows what the powell doctrine is. and who gets to have a doctrine? that gives you a sense of what -- of how important he really was and what a major figure he was. it was -- i think the funeral also, as you saw all those political leaders from different parties, none of whom spoke, it gave you a sense of a washington that at least we like to imagine once was, and again could be, a washington in which people disagree and sometimes disagree forcefully without being disagreeable. and that's certainly something general powell could do as jake jacobs said.
he didn't suffer foolishness gladly. and i remember, you know, once having -- it wasn't a heated discussion, it was, you know, a robust discussion with him in which we disagreed on politics. and at the end, when we sort of agreed that we would disagree, he turned to me and said, so, we good? that's something he always did, at the end, he wanted to know, yes, we had this disagreement, we did not see eye to eye, and perhaps won't, but you and me are good, right? and that's very much the way he was. that was certainly my experience. i think the experience of the people who filled the cathedral today. >> colonel jack, there were so many facets to what we saw from secretary powell's life, his
career. and the way that he was personally too. we've talked about what we heard from richard armitage, what we heard from madeleine albright. you knew his family, you knew michael, who also spoke as well. it's clear that it's so emotional to eulogyize anybody, especially your father, you can see that emotion on his face especially towards the end that have tribute. >> it's very difficult to watch the family go through this. but he was a great man, and we are all -- we've all benefitted from his wise counsel. i want to go back to something we were talking about earlier, and it was about his servicing in vietnam and how he's disinclined, disinclined, to use the military instrument of power. >> colonel jacobs, we'll -- go ahead.
>> no, i was going to say, we were talking earlier about his disinclination to use the military instrument of power, and it's interesting to note that one of the things that drove that was his experience in vietnam. don't forget, he went to vietnam very early in the war. he got there fully ten years before we finally withdrew all combat forces. and a dozen years before the north vietnamese took over. he was an adviser there. and he knew exactly how the military instrument of power could be used and misused. so it's no surprise that he was a reluctant user of the military instrument of power. >> yeah. colonel jack, thank you so much. we are joined by one of our own very special guests, our own andrea mitchell, hi, andrea, i know you were inside the cathedral for the service. >> such a beautiful service. >> tell me about it, what was it like being inside, being in the room? >> i was just so struck by all of the speakers, by michael
powell, of course his beloved son, and madeleine albright. but richard armitage, who is his companion in arms, his deputy secretary with him in the pentagon, with him all the way. he captured the spirit. and michael captured the love of his father, who was -- they went to visit him at walter reed the night before he died and held his hand. and the valiant fight. he had multiple myeloma, he had parkinson's late in life, even after the terrible cancer. and then to be brought down by covid is just such a tragic loss. but the music, the hymns, and i was thinking of, when we went to an asean meeting, the asian summit, and he performed from abba. the fact that they mixed abba
and bob marley in with the hymns, the traditional episcopal service, was just to personal and wonderful. he loved abba, who is now back 40 years later. it's a full cycle. >> we were talking about that's one of the things richard armitage particularly talked about, and michael too, the personal side of colin powell. as someone said, if you knew him, you knew him. a lot of viewers obviously have not had a personal relationship with him. it was a special way to get to know the man versus the diplomat, the soldier, and the warrior/statesman. >> even though he was beloved at the state department for going down to the cafeteria, mixing with people, he always wanted to be called general powell after he left the state department, because he was a soldier first and foremost, having gone into the rotc, and then the army, it
saved him from a very different life, as he often said. it was the discipline and everything that applied to him. most people know him in later life, but i also -- when i first met him, he was deputy national security adviser coming into the reagan white house and it was the cleanup after raniran-contr they came in and salvaged the reagan presidency, it was not at all certain that that would be possible. his was a life of service. what came through today was the man of faith but also the man of family. and his wife alma, as she came out, down the procession, following the coffin, just taking people's hands. >> you could see that, holding people's hands, exchanging a few words. >> she's just resilient.
it's an extraordinary family. >> i know that you -- i'm not sure where you were seated in the cathedral, we had a good shot of the former presidents and current president lined up, hillary clinton, the former first lady, bill clinton could not be here on his doctor's advice, but a remarkable display, not just some of the most powerful people, the most powerful people in this country, but bipartisan support for somebody who in some ways transcended political party. >> and the fact that dick cheney was here was really very interesting, because dick cheney played a very large role in the saddest chapter of colin powell's life, which was the false information about intelligence and weapons of mass destruction. >> that speech before the united nations in 2003. >> exactly, february of 2003. and he said it was the greatest blot on his career, and he
thought he had the right information and he was given bad information. and so that was a really terrible, terrible chapter that he lived with the rest of his life. but the fact that the family invited the former vice president and acknowledged his service, despite everything that's happened between those two men, is really very telling. >> andrea mitchell, i'm so glad you were able to be here and share some of your thoughts and share a little bit of what it was like inside the cathedral, so different, of course, we don't know what it was like, we can just watch it. >> let me just say it was very deliberate, that the family wanted this to be very personal, and that this was not a state funeral, even though we've been to so many state funerals there, nancy reagan, ronald reagan, george herbert walker bush. the fact that none of the former presidents or current presidents spoke, where normally they would have, they were very close to
him. >> that was, as you say, an intentional choice, colonel jack pointed that out too, an intentional choice by the family to make this about colin powell the man, the family man, the friend, and not the diplomat. >> and the army quintet, the brass quintet, the military escort. it's terribly moving. >> i'm so grateful for you being here, it's not an easy day for a lot of folks who knew colin powell. we're grateful to all of you for joining us on our special coverage on msnbc honoring colin powell, former secretary of state. i'm hallie jackson, wrapping up this coverage, we'll have more coming up on msnbc with chris jansing right after the break. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable.
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good to be with you. i'm chris jansing. and today could be the biggest day yet of the biden presidency and the most expensive in the history of congress. that's because it could finally be infrastructure day. yes, we've heard that before. but at this hour house democrats are racing toward votes tonight on the two pillars of the president's sweeping legislative agenda. it's hard to overstate the significance of this moment for the administration. a bruising, months-long fight to get to $3 trillion. and of course coming on the heels of a pretty horrible election day. part one, the hard
infrastructure package with a trillion dollars for roads, bridges, broadband expansion. it took months of wrangling, but could, if the house passes it, go to president biden's desk today. the build back better act faces something more complicated. as you probably know by now, it would impact nearly every facet of american life with reforms for education, health care, childcare, the tax code, climate change. even if it passes the house tonight, it will head next to the senate, and then it will almost certainly get a massive going-over. not just by the senate but the parliamentarian before being sent back to the house for final passage. again, all this assumes that today's votes are a done deal. and they're not. the house speaker is dealing with holdouts in her party, seven moderates who aren't ready to sign on the dotted line. the president used ace better than expected jobs report to underscore the need to build
back the economy. yet even he acknowledged they didn't have the votes yet. >> the second way to make sure a recovery is fully felt is to pass my bipartisan infrastructure agreement and my build back better plan. i'll be headed back to my office to make some calls. i want to say very clearly, if your number one issue is the cost of living, the number one priority should be seeing congress pass these bills. >> we've got a great panel to talk about this. joining me, nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. nbc news white house correspondent monica alba. and punchbowl news founder and msnbc contributor jake sherman. great to see all of you. another slow day on capitol hill. ali, how are we looking right now when it comes to potential votes tonight? >> yeah, it's looking like infrastructure day is like infrastructure era, because we're not exactly sure what's going to happen at this point. we did hear from one of the
congressmen who is meeting with speaker pelosi on the idea they could vote on the bipartisan infrastructure vote tonight and do a procedural vote on build back better. that puts speaker pelosi on the seesaw, balancing the moderates and progressives in her party. the moderates may hold out and that puts the question to whether progressives are okay with voting on the bipartisan infrastructure bill. we've actually even heard just in the last few minutes from one of those, congresswoman cori bush, one of the progressives, who said she wouldn't be on board for that plan. this is the balancing act that comes when you have such razor thin margins in the house. speaker pelosi can only afford
to lose three members on the vote. while there are some members who i'm talking to who might still be optimistic, i'm also talking to just as many who are wondering if they'll be taking their flights out of town tonight or if they'll be canceling them because this really still is up in the air. >> i'm not sure george balanchine could deconstruct this choreography. it's crazy, monica, to say the least, a rocky road to get to this point. any indication that the president is worried that yet again, something might hold this up? >> rocky, bumpy, choose your infrastructure adjective, chris, that's absolutely right. and i think you can take away from the president's own remarks earlier this morning that yes, he is still concerned. and that's why he's making this very public statement, essentially urging lawmakers to get on board. we've seen him do it privately, time and time again. we've seen him do it publicly, applying that political pressure. but the fact that he took time out -- as an aside, that didn't
seem to be in his prepared remarks, to let us know he was going to hustle back to the oval office to continue to make these calls, to appeal to these holdouts in between giving this speech on the october jobs report and heading to colin powell's funeral, i think tells you a lot about where the president is today in terms of his engagement. and we know he just returned to the white house from that memorial service. and it's possible that he will be engaging again just as he was earlier today and all night, talking to those house democrats, publishing them to try to get on the same page. the president seeming to be still cautiously optimistic, as i'm told by white house aides here, he is the eternal optimist when it comes to this. he's the one in the room who usually says i think we will actually get it done and believes it whereas others may have their hesitations and their doubts. we will hear shortly from the white house in a press briefing in terms of where negotiations stand. this is very much minute by minute. the president is supposed to depart for a weekend in rehoboth
beach later this afternoon but the timing of that is completely dependent on what happens on capitol hill, chris. >> to punctuate the minute by minute nature of this, i know jake was working the phones while he was up on camera, what's the very latest you're hearing? >> yeah, it looks like they're going to try to clear a procedural hurdle for the build back better act and at that time pass this infrastructure bill. this is going to be a very difficult vote for a lot of people. this is something the congressional black caucus wants. they are the strongest and most influential bloc in the democratic caucus. they have everything to wield power. but will progressives let the infrastructure vote go without the larger -- i hesitate to call it a social spending package, because it's so much more, the
white house calls it human infrastructure. but the point the leadership and the white house, frankly, is making, is let's make some progress here, we've been stuck at this for months. and there is something to that. they could pass this kind of procedural motion that will start the process. there are just a lot of moderates who are dug in and want to understand how much this package is going to cost before voting on it. and quite frankly, that doesn't seem like an absurd point of view. they only know a fraction of what the cost will be. they're not going to get the cost until the week of thanksgiving. but there's no deadline here. i mean, we're not working with a deadline. so i think those are the dynamics to consider. i wouldn't be surprised, chris, is my guess, and ali can hold me accountable to this in a few hours, that we will see a procedural vote and a vote perhaps on the infrastructure bill tonight. now, if they can't get a vote on the infrastructure bill, maybe they just do the procedural vote on the build back better act.
>> let's talk about a little timeline here, ali. what is realistic? and let us not forget, folks are going home, you've got thanksgiving, you've got christmas, it always feels like once you get into the election year, then their focus goes away from what actually is happening on the hill and how they get reelected. so is there any pressure in terms of a timeline? and are we going to see something today? >> well, look, they're pressure in terms of the timeline. jake and i are probably talking to the same lawmakers who are frustrated by how long this has taken. there are some who wanted to see a vote on this bipartisan infrastructure bill back two months ago. others of them on the senate side, i'm thinking specifically of people like senator joe manchin who say they're okay if the second part of this process with the social spending package takes a little more time. there have been varying degrees of the desire to push forward at this on different paces. but for those who want to see
the congressional budget score, they'll have to wait. that's a holdup in the house. we're hearing that from senators. both the house and the senate are supposed to be gone next week. no one likes to cut short their recess especially when everybody has been working hard the last few weeks on negotiating this. but even if the house were to move forward on this, in the perfect world, what if they cleared both bills tonight? that still means that larger social spending package is going to sit in the senate for several weeks, because they have to do a congressional budget office score. they also have to go through that bird bath process, making sure all the different pieces of this actually follow the rules of being able to fit into the reconciliation process. that brings you closer to thanksgiving. it could even bring you after that, because that bill is going to look very different after it finishes in the senate. it's going to go back to the house. all of this stretches right into the holidays. and oh, by the way, lest we forget, that's when those fiscal fights come back around, december 3 is the day that government funding is set to run out. and at the same time we hit that debt ceiling limit once again. those are crises that are going
to pile on top of this even in the perfect world where this goes as expeditiously as possible. so yeah, it's going to be a busy winter, it's already been a busy fall. that won't change here on the hill. i have a feeling jake and i will be spending a lot of today, tonight, future nights and weekends, outside the speaker's office, waiting for updates like we have been today. >> it hasn't just been a busy fall going into winter, it's been busy six years. i don't know when you guys sleep, to be honest with you. ali vitali, monica alba, jake sherman, keep us posted, give us a call if there's something that happens that we need to know in this hour. thank you all. ahead, more ammo in the fight against covid. the pill that pfizer says significantly reduces the risk of hospitalization or death for people who get covid. also the star quarterback seemingly caught in a lie about being vaccinated. why he is now reportedly guilty. -- angry. gry. there's new hickory-smoked bacon, fresh mozzarella,
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we may soon have another tool in the fight against coronavirus. pfizer announcing today that its pill to treatment covid-19 proved so effective, the drug maker stopped its clinical trials early. according to pfizer it cuts the risk of hospitalization and death by 89% when taken within three days of the start of symptoms. this pill is the second of its kind. merck's pill is currently waiting for fda authorization. joining me, msnbc medical contributor and pulmonologist dr. vin gupta. 89% efficacy when cleaned with a low dose of an hiv drug. look, 750,000 people gone from the coronavirus. how does this fit in potentially to the overall strategy to save lives? >> chris, good afternoon, great to see you. it's hard to overstated the importance of this innovation, this new tool in our toolkit. it's fantastic news.
89% effectiveness, for all your viewers out there, let's looked at the data that was presented in a press release, mind you, we don't have other publicly available information. what we do know is that this was a randomized controlled trial. that means about 390 people got the drug. 40 pills over five days after a diagnosis of covid, if they were high risk and unvaccinated. about 390 people didn't get the drug, they got placebo. amongst those who got the drug, three out of 390 got hospitalized with covid. 27 of 390 who got placebo got hospitalized. some of those people ended up dying. 90% effective, chris, that's pretty incredible. this is a class of drugs called protease inhibitors that we've had for decades now, fighting hiv and other ailments like hepatitis. they've been repurposed for the purpose of tackling covid. this is really exciting news, particularly for global health,
low to middle income countries. we need to make sure wealthy countries who have wonderful vaccines don't take up the limited supply right now when people need it most elsewhere. >> what science has done in combating this pandemic boggles the mind. let's talk about the ongoing fight to get more shots in arms. the white house has announced a new vaccine mandate starting january 4. any business with at least 100 employees has to require them to be fully vaccinated or get weekly tests. so i think we're talking in the neighborhood of around 89 million americans. will that get us close to or to where we need? we never thought we were going to get every single human being vaccinated. but here in the u.s., if you're talking about those kinds of numbers, does that get us close? >> absolutely. it's hard to argue that this is not going to move the needle positively. as more workers see their colleagues get vaccinated, those who remain unvaccinated, this will continue to build confidence. there's also going to be friction, weekly testing for
employers. this is probably going to move some employers who can't afford that or don't want to put that burden on their employees in a tight labor market, to say, you know what, let's go ahead with the mandate. and also, chris, i'll just say, this is going to force people to upload proof of their vaccination. we still have people even in health care who have been lacking in the documentation, the administrative side of things. we'll get a true sense what have the gap is to get us where we want to be in terms of vaccine coverage. i will also lastly say, really important for all employers out there, whatever your decision is, to continue with education and direct engagement. this is an opportunity for us to still continue to reach people who are yet to be unvaccinated, to minimize any feeling of being upset about this type of policy, it's important for parallel education efforts to continue. >> you're uniquely qualified to speak about this story, you were involved in the effort to get
the seahawks vaccinated. aaron rodgers is said to be furious that the nfl released his vaccination status. he misled the public by acting as though he was vaccinated. what risk did he pose to his team and to the staff? >> of course we know that unvaccinated individuals, when somebody guess vaccine breakthrough illness, occasionally it happens, it's very rare. what we realize in the last four weeks, usually the index case is somebody who's unvaccinated. so for all of aaron rodgers' teammates, him being unvaccinated and covid positive, he was a direct risk to them, especially in locker room settings, he was clearly putting others in harm's way. now we have actual data. i'll also say the damage he's
done potentially to fans of his, i mean, what i've remarked in working with professional athletes, seahawks, major league baseball, is that if you can convince these world class athletes to get vaccinated, the ability for them to then reach their fans is unparalleled. but him doing this, lying about it and now feeling furious, all he's doing is harming efforts to be able to reach his fans. this is more than just him, it's a broader set of consequences. i'm hoping he might be willing to make amends and engage on the reasons he did what he did so we can move past this. >> dr. vin gupta, good to see you, have a good weekend, thank you. up next, opening statements are under way in the trial of three white men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. all of the jurors who are listening to the testimony are white except one. to what's possible with rybelsus®.
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have pushed the trial to now, nearly two years after his death, and after a controversial jury selection process ended with only a single black juror. joining me is nbc news correspondent ron allen, who is in brunswick, georgia. university of alabama law professor, former u.s. attorney, joyce vance. so ron, this trial has been a long time coming tell us more about the opening arguments today. >> while the prosecution has been focussing on the video we have seen, the actual encounter where arbury was shot and killed, that they say shows that ahmaud arbery was will at least five other times before this incidents. they pour pray them an a burglary suspect, a neighborhood where there was an up tick in climb, and he was there, and acting suspiciously. they even say that travis mcmichael, one of the defendants, encountered arbery a
few days before the fatal encounter, apparently -- plundering is the work that the defense attorneys use -- a home there that had been the target of robberies on a number of occasions. the defense maintains. now, in the past the prosecutors have said whatever happened before this day doesn't matter, and they insist that the defendants did not say arbery committing a crime which would give them justification for affecting a citizen's arrest. the bottom line is the prosecutors are trying to focus the jury on the incident we see, where he is chased, shot and killed. the prosecutors saying he was under a tack, while the defense is trying to cast a broader picture where he is in a neighborhood -- and it is defendants were honorable citizens trying to defend their
community. they have law enforcement training, and they did this -- they made this up to try to stop him that day so the police could come and arrest him. that's essentially the arguments. we expect the defense to continue and wrap up today. we may hear from the first witness at some point today. >> so the prosecution did not get the jury panel it hoped for, even the judge suggested that there was something afoot here, but he said he really couldn't do anything about it. do you change your strategy? adjust it what do you make of what we've heard so far. >> i think the take the jury and look at the racial profile on a jury like this. it makes your heart sink as a prosecutors but also as an advocate for our system of justice. there's no way to deal with the larger problems in injure
selection in america that we see based in this trial in the context of this trial. the prosecution has to forge ahead, do their best to bring in a unanimous jury. something that's encouraging here, chris, is the steps the judge took will protect a verdict if the prosecution gets one, on appeal. if they had not given credit to some of the challenges made by the defense to members of the jury, and had seated some of these jurors, then on appeal following a conviction, the three defendants could have likely gotten some traction with an appellate court. so if there's anything that we can draw away that's positive from these proceedings, it's that the judge has taken steps that protect the ver if the prosecution can get there on appeal. >> i think the questions that a lot of people are asking, and ron allen spoke with family members who said they were concerned, but not surprised about the makeup of the jury.
the judge says he wants to go by the book, but you wonder sometimes if the book is broken. >> i think that's exactly the questions. we have similar problems in alabama, where when you draw juries from counties as opposed to cities, the population on the jury looks different than a jury where the crime occurred. i don't mean to make light of them. we've had serious issues in the federal district i lived in, that we had to remediate by what we called the jury wheel, the way we pull a jury. there's serious questions. in the context of this case, the judge did the right thing under the law. >> joyce vance, always good to see you. our coverage will continue next. stay with us. our coverage will e next stay with us bipolar depression.
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