tv Morning Joe MSNBC November 5, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PDT
up. >> we can use all the help. thanks john. i want to say thank you all for getting up way too early on this friday morning and ending this show with my youngest son turns seven tomorrow. happy birthday buddy. thanks very much for watching, "morning joe" starts right now. make sure everyone is vaccinated right after the holiday. more covid-19 news, there is faster spreading delta variant moving to the u.s. called delta plus. good deal. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe," it's friday,
november the 5th, it's a busy friday morning. live picture of new york city. a couple of hours south in washington, d.c. because after months of negotiations, the house is set to vote today on both the build back better act in the biden's infrastructure bill. the date will begin a couple of hours at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. democrats working late into the night finalizing deals. concerning immigrations and state and local taxes and the overall cost of the legislation. joe, here we are, it's taken several months and a lot of back and forth and hand ringing among democrat to get there. a vote today in the house, do you think they'll get it through? >> well, i can't believe nancy would bring it up on the floor if she were not get both of the bills through. >> of course the most important thing is and again let's act
like grown-ups here. pass infrastructure bill. have a huge sign ceremony, this is a big damn deal, right? get the headlines and releases about it. it's also making bridges and roads and broad band, making their lives better. while that's going on. of course, willie, negotiations for this other package by the time they bring it in for a landing, you have joe biden and joe manchin and pr progressives working together and pass it a couple of weeks from now. two or three weeks spaces it out great. do the same thing then and democrats will actually going into the new year with a little
bit of wind on their back. it sounds like a great plan. let's hope if you are a democrat they can execute it. >> it's a smart plan, we had manchin on here yesterday. he's not there. nowhere close. just slow down on this build back better. we got to know how much it costs and there are things that i don't like. i am not alone with that. there is a lot of good stuff but i am not voting yes on this today. let's slow it down. let's bring in jonathan lemire, the co-founder of punch bowl news, anna palmer and eugene daniels. good morning to you all. let's start with you, let's lay out for our viewers what's going to happen today as joe says nancy pelosi would not bring this up for a vote, either of these if she didn't think she had the votes. >> that's right. it's going to be a long day in
the house, right? they're going to come in around 8:00 and they're going to start debate of this rule. it takes about an hour of time. that's it is key vote for speaker nancy pelosi. it's going to be the sign of whether or not democrats are going to get in line, deliver the moderates continue to have issues with this bill. if that's successful, they'll have another debate and they'll vote to pass the build back better act and move quickly into the infrastructure bill and that's expected to pass out problem. the big hurdle is what happens with these moderates. it appears she's able to do last minute deal-making and get everybody on board. it's never done until it's actually done. >> jonathan lemire, the president obviously had been working the hill and gone up there a couple of times, trying to talk to them in making it happen. you have joe biden and manchin.
both of them shaking on a deal, joe biden and manchin given each other their word which of course from the era in washington politics that they come from, that actually means something to them. so, they given each other their words. it seems that's finally enough for progressives to say, all right, we trust the president. to get it done, we'll move forward with infrastructure. white house feels confident that they can get manchin to where they want in that 1.75 framework everybody agreed on? >> they do. they know they have some work ahead. they believe they'll get there throughout the process. they trust the relationship between senator manchin and president biden. president biden is unusual. he made two trips to capitol hill. that's when the vote is done. he basically going there to shake some hands like there is no drama attached.
that's not the case. he went up there twice with things uncertain and neither time did not yield a vote. he worked the phones and focused on those moderate members of the house, look, i need your vote. it's time to do this. we need to make it happen. there is a party that's reeling some what after the election results on tuesday namely in virginia. this is a win they need. they need this to be able to giver them something to run on for next year's midterm and stabilize the biden's agenda. the american people did not vote for fdr or lbg, suggesting that biden's plan isover-reaching. we know from progressives and we had congresswoman jayapal on the show saying she did trust president biden would bring those moderates and sinema on
board. democrats is on the brink of a deal. it's messy to get here and i am sure terry mcauliffe is angry of the timing of this. if they get it done, it's a huge win for the president. we should expect the infrastructure bill to be signed. >> eugene, there seems to be debates among democrats. you have the president coming out saying this shows we have to get things done and build back better act. we have to show people what they are doing for them. you have moderates saying joe manchin and abby spanberger saying this is too much, i am not going to vote for it. how does the president who you cover everyday, how is he managing these in his party? >> he has been very clear to them, to us for a long time that he sees the best thing for the
economy for the political future of his party and himself and this country through this infrastructure bill, through this build back better act. he's been very clear with them. this is a party, one of the issues i guess for democratic party is there are so broad and different types of people in this party. when you have that, you have different fashions for different reasons. everyone is going to take their own adventure and they decide that this is the reason why we lost and this is what happens. it's not that simple. it's a multitude of those things and so the president and this white house made clear that they expect the best way, get the president's polls backup and making sure the american people
see him doing what he promised doing. and more importantly just having some action and doing things for people and once people start seeing roads being built and they start getting more money in their accounts in some of this stuff on this reconciliation bill. they are hopeful for the white house that's when they'll see people excited again and trusting this president, trusting democrats to do for them. >> you want to see how much tuesday's debate, tuesday's election shapes the debate in the democratic party, look no further at the new york times editorial page, it's a voice for progress progressivism, it has been well over 100 years. it writes democrats looking left on many priorities and so much messaging have lost sight of what qianyu night the largest
numbers of americans. is it risk of becoming a marginal democratic party appealing only to the left? and anna, the times also brought up a quote that i talked about yesterday. bill clinton, james carvel line, is the economy stupid? there is no doubt that it's something that the democrats are coming to focus on. they'll need to focus on first in passing these two bills. >> it's important to note that nancy is going to be -- it's going to be the most expensive day in house's history. it's worth to take a step back here. yes, bipartisan infrastructure
bill is going to be passed and done. truly this build back better house is a messaging bill. it's going to the senate and get totally re-done in a lot of different ways. it's not just manchin, it's going to be bob mendez. we'll continue to have that happen for at least the next month or a half. you are not going to see it done as early to mid and late december. >> you know willie, that's a return to normalcy. that's how things used to work on capitol hill. the house would pass a bill, senators would say something insulting about it. john mccain when he was asked by the press of something we passed in the house, and asked him what he thought about it. the house don't matter. and they go to conference committee and people yelling and
screaming. that's how this works. they got to pass the bill to negotiate on the bill. i will say democrats are looking for a reason to be positive. people are being critical for this process. they're looking for a reason to be critical. they'll pass a landmark infrastructure bill that's bipartisan. that's going to be huge. it's going to be huge for joe biden and democrats and the republicans that voted for it. it's going to be good for america. then this other bill that's controversial. what's going to happen is, it's schoolhouse rock time, willie. that bill is going to be debated in the house and the senate and they're going to come back together in committee and try to line it up so both sides can vote for it. this is regular order and people should not be melting like snow
flakes. there is going to be some tough debates. it's not something that happens over night. >> we want $6 trillion in this package. now it's willow down to $1.75 trillion. now that feels disappointing to some people. that's what senator manchin says yesterday. send it over to the senate and mark it up and we'll get this thing passed. we'll come back to this. meanwhile the biden administration unveiled new details of the federal regulations that impacts two-thirds of america's work force, companies are 100 or more employees will have two months to ensure their workers vaccinated of get tested weekly and any employees failing to meet the requirements by the deadline could face fines. big ones, too. gabe gutierrez has the latest. >> reporter: remarkable
compliant. the mandate covers a staggering 84 million people, two-thirds of the u.s. work force. it requires 100 or more employees to ensure they have vaccinated by january 4th or tested weekly. >> the idea is not just spending hours and hours in public money or court. the intent behind this is to get this health and safety of workers in the workplace put it front and center. >> reporter: marty walsh says the rules will be administered by osha. fines could reach nearly $14,000 per violation. >> how exactly do you plan to enforce this? >> osha done this work for 50 years and employers know the way to work with osha.
>> during a senate hearing, rochelle wallensky and dr. fauci defended biden's response. >> we know mandates work. if you look at examples at the houston airlines or other organizations mandated, it works, 99%. >> reporter: from los angeles. >> no one should lose their jobs over a vaccine mandate. >> reporter: virginia, where dozens of workers walked off the job. >> i would like to have the company sit down and talk and come to the table. >> reporter: some states are planning to sue the biden administration over this latest mandate after already doing so after a previous requirement over contractor.
in houston. >> i had mixed emotions. i know the vaccine is our one way ticket, on the other, there is a certain reality of managing our employee based and running our economy. we'll find out. it may be on the collision course. >> gabe gutierrez reporting. this affects 84 million employees. obviously this is going to be a tough road to hold for the white house and the enforcer of this, we have seen governors and attorney generals across the country challenging this before it was effectively in place. >> that's right, an evolution here from the president, when he first took office, he was opposed to the idea of having vaccine mandates but his hands was forced by the reluctant of certain states where the vaccine
distributions or acceptance really lagged. . white house aides say they are confident they'll win challenges, they know it's coming, red state governors are using this as a political wedge. they feel pretty good about their chances getting through this. the president noted that since mandates gone into effect and private sector. they have not seen mass firings or there have not been huge labor shortages. they feel most people when forced to choose getting a vaccine or losing their job, they choose to get a vaccine. mandates work. this is certainly a significant thing. they know there is going to be legal challenges between now and the 4th. the white house feels like this is necessary as the nation try to get out of the pandemic. >> as you expected.
the issue is spilled over into congress and senator ted cruz introducing a bill to prohibit the federal government and quote, any entity of the federal state and local level receiving federal funding including school districts from requiring covid-19 vaccines for minors and signaling his opposition to vaccine mandates, what else are we seeing in terms of challenges for this? >> clearly republicans are going to grab on this to say that mandates are necessary and the government government overreach. there was a lot of frustration among parents. democrats are going to figure out what's the right way of messaging on this to say this is necessary but we are not trying to get involved and stopping people from working. as joe says, is the economy
stupid and returning to vibrant si. you will see crews and as well as other republicans, mandates are unnecessary, this is joe biden and democrats trying to get involved in your business and involved in your home and that's not where the party should be. remember this is the same governor who's telling school districts they can't let kids wear mask inside their schools. >> it's absolutely crazy. eugene, what's so funny about this is we conservatives in the past used to mock and laugh and ridicule like san francisco loonies and hippies and freaks, dude, i am not taking the vaccines. there is probably something inside it where they can trace
and figure out where my plans is and the way they constantly mock them. take the vaccine, it's good for you. now you got republicans and it completely switch sides. only because a former failed game show host told them to do that. it's bizarre. after conservatives mocked it and ridiculed and extremists on the left for being anti-vaxers for so long, not just on tv shows like this but the state of mississippi wanted to make such a statement that for all of their vaccines before every game show hosts decide to make a political issue. they would pass vaccine mandates
with no exception and not everyone religious exception. now you have turning of the table. now it's these republicans who are acting like the very people they mocked and ridicule a few years ago. there is always been an anti-vaxers as you just laid out. it's not something that's new, it's grown. the things that when you talk to folks about these vaccines, you talk to folks about the covid-19 vaccines verses other vaccines that we have taken when we all have to go to school and we all have to take some types of vaccines. vaccine mandates and requirements are not new. there is going to be a fight over this for all through 2022 and what the white house is concentrating with this administration is ending this
pandemic whatever it looks like getting us to that new normal again so that when that does come up in the 2022 elections, they can say look, you guys may be grumble about the vaccine but look at us now, you are able to go outside and the last mask you saw was under your bed, dirty and you found it and you have not thought about it in a while. that's the focus. having republicans being hypocrites about this. you talk about what's going on in florida and how they like some types of mandates and they don't like others. they are vulnerable and the difference is republicans are a tired group. this is a party that's all together on this. the leader of the party say things are important that goes to fox news and that whole circle happens. the party moves with it. that's what makes it hard to hit republicans on them being on
against mandates and requirements. >> remember all those hippies you hung out was. what a time it was for all of us, huh? >> it was a wonderful time. you and i were thinking things so simple. we were three or four years away from the inside of a turkish jail cell. those are memories with the dead, and gotten us through darker nights. >> i should have known something was amiss. >> really? i can't carry out these baseball cards here. >> we'll look at them when we get to it.
it didn't go well. >> we did a tough stretch. anna palmer, thank you for indulging us here. i know you got a long day. thanks for starting with us. a murder trial gets underway for three white men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. only one of the 12 jurors who'll decide the case is black. the judge is calling that intentional discrimination. the latest of the controversy surrounding aaron rogers and his unvaccinated status. plus, following the tragic shooting on "rust," dwayne johnson is taking steps being safe, what he and others are doing when "morning joe" comes back. g when "morning joe" comes back bogeys on your six, limu.
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family members of ahmaud arbery are outraged. and they are not alone. >> reporter: passion is running high in the community where ahmaud arbery were shot and killed two years ago. anger of only one black jury selected that arbery's family called it's modern day lynching. >> it's very disturbing. >> do you think you will get justice? >> i do think it's the evidence they have. gregory mcmichael and his son travis and a neighbor facing nine counts each, murder and
attempted kidnapping, accused of chasing and shooting aubrey. they all pleaded not guilty. the defense using its legal challenges to eliminate 11 potential black jurors on the final day. >> this court found there appears to be intentional discrimination. >> reporter: he added georgia's law prevents them to from taking action. insisting the perspective jurors could not be impartial. >> that's really what the court is to decide. are those race neutral explanations or offered, are they satisfactory. prosecutors expected to cite arbery's race as a significant factor in his death. >> eugene, some really bizarre
ruling over the past week or so, we have seen up in kenosha, a juror in the rittenhouse's case saying i am going to be biassed for rittenhouse. i can't be fair because i am really strong supporter of the second amendment. i don't think i can be fair. the judges say oh, i will keep you on there and he makes a couple of bizarre ruling of what the victims who are now dead can't be called victims. now here we have a judge talking about how we have an unfair jury which of course in these types of cases can be especially like a case like this can be 95% of the trial right there because you get one person on that jury saying they're not going to convict then these guys don't get convicted.
>> this is exactly right. we are sure of what we heard of the one out of 11 black jurors is exactly what black people, black advocates and black lives matter protesters, the people that help protest and took to the streets last summer, these are the things they point to when they talk about how the justice system works. you have one person in this case that not just kind of about race , it's all about race. it's front and center and back. that's part of the conversation. one of the things that's key in this case is whether or not these men have the ability to do citizen arrests. when you talk to experts, one of the things is important is somebody has to see someone doing their crimes in order to do citizen arrest. this case is one of those pushed
this country to have a different conversation about race, why these men were not charged until two months after this happened because the video came out. and so this is going to be no matter what ends up happening, one of those moments in american history, does it work for people that look like me differently than it does for people that looks like you, joe. >> the thing is, i think anybody can ask is they're representing a jury of their peers and you put that 26 numbers out there. one out of four. if there are 12 jurors, there should be three who are at least black who represents the demographic break down of that county. there is one. >> something seems terribly wrong there. eugene daniels, thank you so much for being was. we really appreciate it. coming up, where subpoenas are
expected as early as today in the investigation of the attacks on january 6th of our nation's capitol. plus -- >> i am running alone. are you aware being a public figure people will recognize you. i know that people don't go to the marathon to talk. >> to boo. >> would that be awful? >> mile 21. more like morning no! >> yeah, it could be really bad there. it could be a scene. things can get dark really quick. we'll go live to the finish line for a preview of what many are calling, the race that willie built when we return. e that wil built when we return our sleigh is now ready, let's get on our way. a mountain of toys to fulfill many wishes.
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♪♪ that slow motion is about the pace that i will be running. a year after the city new york marathon was cancelled, an estimated 30,000 runners will take part in the historic 50th running of that race including me. i will not be the only member of the nbc family at the starting line on sunday. nbc news allison morris will be running her 7th new york city marathon. she joins us now from the finish line in central park. i am impressed that you are doing your 7th. i got to ask you as a first timer, word of advise within 48 hours until that starting run
goes off. >> reporter: cotton is rotten, don't wear any of it. finish with a smile no matter how horrendous it's. everybody wants to see a happy willie geist here. we are here, the new york city maathon is ready for you. we are so excited. this is the biggest marathon in the world. it's going to look a little different this year because of the pandemic. runners is expected to provide one negative proof within 48 hours or proof that they had at least one vaccine and they're going to be asked to wear masks to the starting line, at the starting line but not along the course. don't worry about that. the marathon expo over the
weekend over the javid center will not be opened this year. there will be more start waves. there will be five. i am don't feel bad being in the fourth wave, i am not the last one this year. that's double the time. runners love that. probably the biggest change is the new york marathon, the biggest in the world attracts 50,000 plus runners. this year we are expecting 30,000 plus but they are bringing a whole lot of energy and some cash to new york city. i caught up with the ceo to talk about the impact. >> it's important as expect, we do economic impact after the race, we have seen over $400 million economic impact whether it's hotel and airlines and restaurants and the shopping that people kind of fly into, people make this into a long
vacation coming from overseas or domestically bucket list item and building a trip around it. we work closely with new york city and company and all the tourism board to help fuel our board and strengthen the businesses and economic of new york city which we are excited to see it come back. >> reporter: all right, willie, we can't forget about your good friend, bill caron who'll be running this weekend. you guys will have a terrific break. i can't wait to see you out there. >> i am thrilled, i hope at the end of the day i am standing where you are. even though you described the end of the race as quote, "horrendous." good luck to you, you have fun there, i will see you on sunday. >> reporter: you got this. you too, willie. >> i hate to end anywhere else. >> i have worked it out for you, okay? i called my good friend
rosey ruiz. what do you do, you are going to get over that first bridge and you will be in lower brooklyn, right on the steps, 92nd street, take that subway, that's going to get you up. you want to go lower, no -- you want to go slower because that subway is going to get you from 92nd street all the way up to long island city quickly. you go kind of slow over the bridge and you can smoke a cigarette, and i would go poor willie and get over the bridge. i got to go. so you go to the restroom, that's when you jump on the train, 92nd street all the way
up. you go to long island city. do some jumping jack and get some sweat going and go outside. then you can make your fast dash back in manhattan. go through the finish line for a first or second place, you are being in great shape. >> it feels like a connection found officials don't have a lot of sense of humor about the rosie ruiz incident, i am going to step away from that. i am actually going to run, i started training last year for the one that got cancelled but i kept going and i am going to run from start to finish, -- >> of course you are. >> if you see me on channel 4 on wnbc, leaving the race surrounded by elite marathoners, you will know that i have tried
your plan instead. >> jonathan lemire, of course willie's going to run. of course he's going to run. but, we got this plan, lemire, i think you should follow it. >> it certainly works for miss ruiz, that did not change her life as well. i will be out there, not running, anything over 2 or 3 miles is entirely too long. we'll be in brooklyn among the crowds and i will have the electric shock panels. if you need and if you are struggling there, we'll giver give you the boost. >> we'll bring some signs "morning joe" sign. whatever it is. we'll cheer you on. it's a great cause, you are running for a great cause, the foundation of jamie j. fox. we all have people touched by this and willie, your dad. we are cheering you on. we'll be there with the gatorade
and the cigarettes and that weird breakfast bar that you eat everyday onset. >> lemire, if you want to cheer him on in brooklyn, make sure you get down again south of 92nd street subway session. that's where you can do the most help. willie, we are very proud of you. >> or the metro car. >> hand him the metro card. that's the relay race right there. one more time before we go to break, tell people what you are doing this for and how they can help. >> yes, i am running for the michael j. fox foundation for parkinson's research. my dad had parkinson's for 30 years, i watched how difficult it's for him. there are 5 million people in the world who have parkinson's disease. 50,000 people in america will be diagnosed this year. michael j. fox has been an incredible inspiration.
i hear there is a chance i may spot him on the route. that gives me the boost that i need. i am trying to raise as much money as i can. if you search my page, make a donation if you are able and would like to, that would be appreciated. if you are in new york city, come out and yell my name or something because i am going to need every bit of encouragement i can get. thank you all, joe, i will keep your plan in my back pocket but i hope not to use it on sunday when it out there. still ahead on "morning joe," virginia's governor elect glenn youngkin and ralph northam. plus, the democratic party's top super pact is sounding the alarm of next year's midterm. we'll be joined by the chairman of priorities usa.
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one of hollywood's biggest stars is taking action now following last month's deadly shooting on the set of the movie "rust," dwayne johnson says he no longer allow real guns to be used on a set. i can't speak for anyone else but i can tell you any movie that we have moving forward with seven bucks production, anything we do and produce, we don't use any guns at all. we are going to take care of it imposed. we are not going to worry about
the dollars and what i costs. that's from dwayne johnson. aaron rogers after he told reporters he had been, quote, "imm "immunized." he applied an exemption relief but denied. they agreed his treatment did not provide any documented protection from coronavirus. this is according to nfl.com, the official arm of the league. now rogers is furious over the fact that his true vaccination status was leaked. that's according to report by profootball talk matt lafleur. meanwhile packers' coach, he was quote "100% confident covid-19
protocols had been followed." i am in the sure how the team could be 100% confident if they knew that aaron rogers is not vaccinated, he would have be vaccinated of his own treatment because of his home treatment and did not follow protocols for players who are not vaccinated. >> this guy is getting paid tens of millions of dollars. he's quarterback and he's the head of that team and he's going into a locker room, not protected and he's using homeopathic remedy that he got off the internet? instead of using a vaccine that's 95% effective, 90% effective and even if you get it, you would not have something that have such e rod last year
for the red sox. just the height of irresponsibility. he should be angry of himself, he let his team down and he let packers fans down. it's really, really just shocking, shocking behavior. what in the hell does this guy think? some good news, let's go to boston which will require us to take his faceoff the tv screen. breaking news, this pill they are working on is 89% effective based in their clinical studies stopping severe impacts and hospitalizations and deaths from covid, let us hope that when those pills get approved by the fda by the markets, you will have people deciding to take that instead of you know scanning the internet
trying to find some stupid solution to a problem that's already taken care of by some of the smartest minds in the world. >> yeah, just a breathtaking 18 months of innovation development by government and pharmaceutical companies and scientists and doctors from pfizer of an oral pill that you can take to prevent you from get covid. merck had one that was approved in the u.k. we'll dig into this and get some doctors on this and talk about how soon you would be able to take this pill if you get covid. when it come to the president's agenda and as we go to break, the president and first lady are set to attend the funeral of the late colin powell today. president biden calling the former secretary of state a dear friend will be among those paying respects at the cathedral this afternoon. we'll be right back. cathedral
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i can assure him this is a slow and painful process -- no not slow enough and painful enough. >> i am sure you will do all you can to make it more painful before we get to the business line. >> you can count on it. >> i assure that the chairman knows that this can't become law and it will not move forward in the senate without its cbo score. >> all right, dark humor there on capitol hill. democrats getting pushed back on republicans. welcome back to "morning joe," friday, november 5th, the house
is set to vote today on the build back better act and the bipartisan infrastructure bill. it's beginning to be a big day. >> looks like it's happening this time. the ruling committee to finalize the pieces of legislation to the full house. debate will be 8:00 a.m. eastern. joining us now is leanne caldwell, this negotiation had been going on for so long and it has been so exhausting for americans to watch this process. where are we right now? what is going to happen in. >> well, willie, it actually may happen today, there have been so many deadlines that democrats have self-imposed that they have missed. they think that it's going to happen today. the reason is because speaker pelosi is planning to go to the floor with both bills of bipartisan and infrastructure bill that they passed months ago
and $1.5 billion. democrats were negotiating late into the night last night to finalize every single line in negotiations and it took into the night to convince a group of members who want legalization on immigration to work with the caucus, the state and local tax deduction to figure out modifications for them and also they were scrambling to get more details on how much this bill actually costs and if it is going to be paid for. after those three things that were summed up, it seems like pelosi is ready and moving forward today. >> hey leanne, this is jonathan. it's a big win for the democrats and the president.
but a notable achievement all the same. but, let's talk about build back better act and though a huge step could be taken in the house, its got a long way to go in the senate. tell us how that process is going to play out, how long it may take and what changes we see and manchin and sinema? >> this bill is going to change in the senate, i am going to skip the very end of this process for a second. if there are changes to the senate, then it has to go back to the white house to be voted on again. the house can see legislation again. there are going to be changes in the senate including immigration and it's going to get a little wonky here. the parliament is going to spend the next few weeks going line by
line making sure it meets the senate's rules and immigration is going to be a big question on if it does. this state and local tax deductions, if senator bernie sanders adamantly opposed. he thinks this is a huge tax break for the wealthy so he wants to change that. pelosi added four weeks of paid family leave in to this legislation last minute despite opposition from senator joe manchin and so we are going to see where that lands. i am told that senator gillibrand relentless, she's on manchin everyday, trying to convince him to support paid family leave. he has not done it yet. there is going to be more likely. >> all right, leanne, thank you so much. a big day ahead on capitol hill. we greatly appreciate how it's going to go.
thank you very much. jonathan lemire, i am curious of the white house a couple days after the election, what the white house is saying about the election, if they are talking about new direction to move in, i want to go back to this new york times editorial. one of the most progressive voices of america. this is as i talk that you might hear on "morning joe" or hear from guy cecil or hear from bill clinton. if you read this, it says for many voters especially those who don't vote regularly, the 2020 election was about removing mr. trump from the white house. it was less about policies or ideology. mr. biden did not win the
democratic primary because he promised progressive revolution. there were plenty of other candidates doing that. he captured the nomination and the presidency because he promised an exhausted nation a return to sanity decency and competency. as representative abigail spanberger told the new york times nobody elected him to be fdr, they elected him to be normal or stop the chaos. they did and i am not sure what happened since january 20th. there is no doubt. there is no doubt from that speech forward. the numbers are extraordinary high compares to what a moderate
would normally protect. tell me about any second thoughts they may be having inside the white house about starting too far. bill clinton made the same mistakes in '93 and '94 and '95 we are sitting in the chambers, what did he say era of big government are over. he still got some democratic legislation through, he beat us republicans, time and time again. because he started playing to the middle of america instead of his progressive base inside the house. >> you are right, joe biden announced his candidacy in early 2019 about charlottesville about restoring decency of the company and removing the threat as donald trump. he ran as a moderate. many far to his left on that. a couple of things did change. you asked what changed between election day and april when we gave that speech. the pandemic worsen and things hit the lowest water mark here in the united states.
last summer, two senate seat in georgia flipped and democrats had control entirety of congress and there was ability there to have more ambitious agenda, biden himself embraced the idea of being lbj and fdr character. democrats saw this moment as one to seize. we have control of all party of the government, we can go big. it's a chance to land some of these big progressive social spending and safety net programs through. the reconciliation package is going to go through december. they do face questions of immigration and voting rights.
i think they will be head strung a little bit of what they can do. they have to moderate their goals and give democrats something to run on the november '22 midterms. >> we are at a turning point here. the democratic party dramatically under performed from where they expected to be. they lost every single competitive race and they didn't do well in the senate until donald trump went to georgia and worked overtime to help elect those two democratic senators. they came into this session, tied 50 to 50 of the senate.
having a president who again won fairly comfortably but not as well as they thought. republicans had the momentum and here is the important thing. this is obvious in january. january is obvious then than it's now. they had two senators from georgia and two senators from arizona. two formally bright red states, starting far left and a guy from west virginia where donald trump gets 69% of the votes. it's politics 101. you are not going to be able to pull that party two foor left. so yes -- maybe they get this done and infrastructure is going to be a great win for democrats and republicans.
they are have things that are politically positive. they have to worry about inflation and jobs and keeping grocery on shelves. they're going to have to worry about crimes and yes, they have to worry about the chaos in the southern border that keeps expanding and keeps exploding and keeps getting worse. >> these are things that progressives and democrats don't like to talk about. they think they can write a check and take care of some of those things. you just cannot. sometimes writing too many checks makes inflation worse. this is where voters are going make their decisions again. new york times editorial page today saying crime rates are up.
they get a worry about crime, they got to worry about inflation and it's still all these years later, still the economy stupid. this democratic party they talked about social safety net, yes, they have. they just have not talked about business at all. they need to start doing that between now and 2022 if they want to retain the majority. it's going to be tough. they're going in the wrong direction right now. if you look at our exit polling. our nbc exit polling out of virginia. voters make exactly that case. their number one issue and all the talks of education which was important in that race. the economy was the number one issue for all of them. you still have some progressives and activists and members of congress saying the problem with terry mcauliffe campaigning he was too moderates to which republicans across the country, please, keep saying that in 2022. you mentioned guy cecil moments
ago, he leads the most prominent super pac, things are on track to be worst on next year's midterm even on tuesday. democrats risk fierce backlash from voters and can't allow themselves to get dragged further into party warfare. >> governor phil murphy barely hung on. state democrats must win in 2022. the memo were backward looking attacks in formal president trump will not be enough to retain democratic majority. guy cecil is joining us right now and also with us, christina grier and our susan del persio
and jonathan alter. good morning guys. what is the message to democrats as we turn the corner towards 2022? when democrats spending all of their time fighting democrats, they're going to lose. i don't think voters care as a policy describes as moderates or progressives. they care if those policies are delivering for them. in virginia, i think you saw a confluent of three things happen. we failed to respond some of the autobound, number two, youngkin ran a campaign that talked about economic issues while he was engaging in critical race theory and education conversations that other parts of the state and number three, we failed to communicate what democrats will do for people. you know the reality is that is i heard joe talk about the new york times and i take a slightly
different approach, i don't think the issue is democrats are proposing a $1.75 trillion bill that's progressive and people are reacting to that. they are reacting because democrats are not delivering. we need to get the infrastructure bill passed and we need to move forward to make that case to the american people. it's really hard to make the case that you are the competent party that can govern when we spent three months fighting over this bill. we need to pass the bill and draw sharp contrasts with republicans. we need to respond forcefully when they engage in racist dog whistles. >> christina, let's talk about the bill and the fighting and the back and forth. obviously democrats control all of washington, the white house and the house and the senate and we have been saying both sides inside the democratic party marching up the microphones for the past three months, fighting each other instead of doing this
behind closed doors and hammering out a deal. they're getting close, it seems like they're getting close and getting this deal at least on infrastructure and then their bigger bill on social safety net. what impact do you think that'll have for them if they are able to stick both of those landings? >> well, they must, joe. time is of the essence. we know joe biden has unified government until the elections of 2022, most presidents lose unified government during their first midterms elections. if we think about mystery that way. joe biden has a year to make sure he has some wins on the docket but really to articulate to democratic voters why we are doing this and really focus on the voters who i would say dance with the president who brought you to the party. so many democrats are still chasing white voters who left
after jimmy carter let them go. focus on people who are motivated and want to turn out for the democratic party. gives them the vision. tell them why they're trying to spend this money and build this safety net. i agree. joe biden needs to also and walk americans through how these bills will help them in their pocketbook issues. time and time again that's why voters vote and stop giving error to the racist dog whistles to the republican party. we should not be debating critical race theory. it does not shed a light in a way they are being -- democrats have to be offensive and stop constantly responding to republican random talking point that are motivated by racist
dogs barking in my states. >> jonathan alter, it's fascinating to watch the democrats in 2020 and 2021 by fascinating, i mean extraordinary frustrating. republicans are running around talking about defund the police and defund the police, every democratic on this show whether it was nancy pelosi or joe biden or whether it was, the top leadership and the democratic house and jim clyburn, i would say do you support defunding police, every one of them would say it's a stupid idea. no, we don't need to defund the police. democrats did not know how to punch back hard on the campaign trail. this year is critical race theory. and, first of all, if there is nothing there, well, that's a political gift. use that against your opponent that's using it. i am curious on critical race theory, we should get rid of the
word. nobody knows what it means. it means a hodgepodge of about a thousand different things that didn't mean in the original thesis i suppose it was written in. how do democrats respond to that when their obvious mass exaggeration and still a concern among parent that is teaching is going off tracks and not just in virginia but around the country. >> so first of all, the democrats have to close where you call the toughness gap. they have to grow a pair. this is a context sport and they are much worst at it just in the skrum and the republicans are in the last few years and they have to close the communications gap which is connected to that. they have not thought imaginatively about how to communicate, now, it will be easier to communicate when they
deliver so they can run on democrats deliver republicans in the party of dr. knoll and if they can drive that message, that's their problem. if they can, they can do okay. on the parent front, they violated a cardinal iron rule of politics goes all the way down to the pta. you have to love the parents. so this gap by mcauliffe was a serious one. the way youngkin framed it which is we need to teach children how to think and not what to think is the way democrats also should be framing it. and, yes, parents are apart of this process. they have to get back on the side of parents. they have to cut the bs which is dragging them down getting them distracted on issues that don't
do them any good and they have to pivot to a much tougher attack on republicans as we move forward if they're going to savage the senate, the house is probably gone. >> help me out here. where does this toughness gap comes from. >> barack obama was a tough campaigner and bill clinton was a tough campaigning. mario cuomo, he goes after reporters, that's a stupid question. i mean there had been -- bobby kennedy, a tough, tough liberal. where do those tough liberals gone? >> it's a great question, joe, one of the things that disturbs me is only the lincoln project,
former republicans plus one best selling author, don winslow, who were throwing up these web ads seeing which ones went viral. they were tough ads. they should be posting hundreds and dozens at least of very tough negative ads online, see which ones go viral and soo which one of the attack messages work and they can let the market decide if it gets 20 million down loads. they know that's a pretty good tough message. they're not doing that because they're thinking of communications in yesterday's terms. if we get child care, let's go to child care center, have the president go there and do a photo-op. that's yesterday. they need to rethink this and jen psaki is terrific and they have other smart people in the
white house. they need a reboot on communications. >> so susan, there is one key difference here from when the democrats, i talked to those in the white house now who also worked in the obama administration when before the 2010 midterms, democrats crushed, the president did not have much to show for. the economy was sputtering, showing signs of improvement but it was a long way to go. democrats will assume these bills will get passed, having something to show. hey, this is child care and tax credits and your life gotten better in things that we did. how would you make that argument when democrats do come to the table, look, we have done this and they show voters results. >> right, to jonathan's point, they're out dated in forms of communications. what i would say this is government working for you. that's what they should be saying and instead of saying this is what we are trying to do for you, this is government
working for you and take that message with every proposal and that $1.75 trillion package and plus the infrastructure project, we are doing this. democrats are getting things done. right now there is a confidence problem in the administration and with democrats, democrats' big victory is they negotiated a bill with themselves. that's a problem. that's what the american public think. plus, you have the supply chain. that's critical. it does not matter, it shows people right now, they are not picking up items on their shelves. that's a problem. the other thing and i am a little obsessed with this. i like to highlight looking at this past election, tuesday's elections, nbc had a poll-out. it was a statistical question. if you voted in 2020, why did
you vote? this is the way the numbers fell. voted for donald trump because i liked him and his policy. 36% voted for donald trump because i didn't like biden's policy, 6%. voted for joe biden because i liked his policy. 27%. that's a 9-point difference. now add, i voted for joe biden because i didn't like donald trump, 20%. that's what people should be looking a lot. guy talked about this. the police and the policies, this was not a mandate, this was not something that was given to manchin to run with the american public had not seen it. >> yeah, you know, guy, you
remember the wd childers, they would say you got to put the hate down where the goats can eat it. i have not heard a democrat and have not heard a democrat this year talk about how grocery costs more or how gas at the pump is costing more. when you go to grocery, there are empathy shelves or you take your car to get it fixed, they have to wait a long time to get parts from here and there. the supply chain is screwed up and inflation is high. people that have family
restaurants can't find people who will actually work for them. this is where americans live. if you address those problems, ain't nobody going to talk about politics or at least not in the number that they were talking about in virginia. by the way, i am sorry, i don't mean to go on here. it's the same thing with schools. instead of talking about theories, talk about schools. we need to make your schools better. we need to pay our teachers more and have higher standards and got to make sure your kids are better in math and better in science and ready to go out to community college so they can compete in the new economy. democrats are not talking like that right now. >> let me make two quick points. we have to recognize the fact that we have not been talking about it because we have been fighting with each other on the hill. the reality is we don't need to
talk about inflation rising and address it. we need to be talking about the fact that democrats not republicans, not one republican voted to put money in people's pockets with the stimulus check and not one republican voted to make sure we have child tax credits so parents can afford school supplies. it's not just something for the rich or wealthy. there is an agenda to run. let me respond to jonathan on this issue of toughness. donald trump was tough and he lost this election. this idea that republicans are tough is a methodology that democrats need to stop feeding into. i am glad there are viral videos but viralty does not mean
effective. here is what makes a difference for the american people. are democrats fighting for them? are they opposing republicans or republicans want to give tax breaks for the rich? and are we sticking up for working class and middle class americans by making sure they can join a union or have early childhood education and the problems they face day in and day out. that's what toughness is. are we willing to take on the interests of america. the. >> this methodology needs to stop because it does not work. >> you sort of misrepresenting my position, guy with all due respect, pressures joe biden
manchin does not work. >> you are talking about online, viral videos. >> hold on a second now. >> let jonathan respond. i agree with jonathan. this is not about cat videos. this is about democrats being so weak that they let republicans lie about them and frame the terms of the campaign. campaigns are one and all and have run against democrats. i can tell you it's easy picking. they're too weak guys. jonathan, now i have cleared it for you. you can talk now. now i am going to have to give guy the last word. >> guy, you have to do both. you can't say we are not going to play on facebook which is where campaigns and other countries very negative campaigns. they play out in these viral
videos. you got to bring the fight to the midterms and right now democrats are not fighting. biden needs to act a little more like harry truman maybe and battle his way back and mobilize some of the resentment and not just talk up the accomplishments. that's necessary but not efficient. tough do both and very quickly, democratic national committee is falling down on this job. just to go back to roosevelt for one second. remember hooverville in the 1930s they really used against herbert hoover, the dnc today
should turn mitch mcconnell and other republicans into cartoon villains. the democrats should be a lot better off. >> guy, final words. >> i don't think there is any questions that we spent three months for democrats fighting democrats. the fundamentally that's a losing proposition that we need to pass both of these bills and we need to spend the next year drawing a sharp contrast between what democrats will deliver and what republicans will deliver. that's the only way we'll have a shot in this election. politics is about addition. it's about how do we build the biggest coalition possible and how do we deliver for the american people. if we can't make the case after passing four historic pieces of legislation then we don't deserve to be in politics and have the majority that we have. >> guy cecil and jonathan alter on the democratic party and cat videos. thank you very much. great to see you both. professor grier, i want to give
you the last word on this. you have been listening to this debate back and forth. where do you come down on this? what should be the strategy and the focus and tone of the democratic party. >> i prefer joe biden being more of lbj and getting his caucus together such a slim majority. i really think it has to be articulation of the successes of the democratic party. as guy has mentioned so many republicans consistently vote against american issues and interests. they vote against whether it's paid family leave or anything and paying our teachers more. this is the same party that wants to clap for our teacher when it comes to giving them a living wage. they want to refuse. the democrats have to be clear on where they stand and what they're trying to do and remind voters every time they want to
move this country forward, listen, economics manner, we can't speak in generalities, i know democrats are working and complex that they have. they have to make sure they translate those fights to their voters that voters don't feel like people in congress are wasting their time and not working on behalf of the american people. >> professor, stay with us if you can. much more to discuss with you as we move along this morning. the transition of power is underway in virginia. should not be news but looked pretty normal. youngkin and ralph northam met for lunch along with their wives. here is what youngkin said. >> today was the beginning of a
friendship. i appreciate that. what's most important of a moment like this is actually having someone you can call and asking questions. i appreciated that entire sentiment today. >> a some what normal hand off in the state of virginia. still ahead, a federal judge appears former president trump's claims of executive privilege related to the insurrection january 6th. what did the president know and when did he know it? also, ahead this morning, a state department inspector general fails to solve the mystery of a missing and very expensive bottle of japanese whiskey. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. "morning j we'll be right back.
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live picture, a monumental day in washington with voting coming for the infrastructure bill. the so-called steele dossier which makes claims and many debunked by the mueller report. the dossier's primary appeared in court yesterday. he's accused of lying to fbi agents in 2017 of the sources of information he gave to former british spy christopher steel. prosecutors say he told agents he had not used any information
from a long time hillary clinton's supporter who was working in public relations. this is second arrest by john durham. coming up next, google is rolling out a push for use artificial intelligence to discover new drugs. one of the many ways ai is reshaping our world. we'll dig into the impact next on "morning joe." he impact next on "morning joe.
i won. [ laughter ] >> what? >> just kidding. >> yeah. >> yeah, you are incredible. so nice to meet you sofia. >> thank you, jimmy. >> that smile, that was a human-life robot designed using artificial intelligence that can recognize faces and emotional connections with humans. joining us now is formal google and eric schmidt is also with us. they written a book with henry kissinger, "the age of ai," artificial intelligence on society.
good morning, it's great to have both of you on. eric, i will begin with you, we look at artificial intelligence like something that's futuristic. just to set the stage a little bit more people don't realize that, where do we see ai already all over the place? >> you see it in recommendation engines and the way you do google. all the big tech companies have huge ai programs because they make more money and get better results. the real effect of ai is that it's everywhere. it's a wave that's coming and you will have an ai assistance that'll help you get through the day, do a better job. >> daniel, you have obstacles to overcome. when we think of ai, scary thing, eventually as jimmy joked there take over society.
a concern, will ai be like as it becomes more prevalent in our society, how will it make people's lives better? >> the best way to think of ai is amplifier of human skills and opinions. when we look at things like healthcare where we have such need for new drug developments, as was referenced earlier and we have needs for better detection of cancer or things like that. ai is going to amplify the ability of scientists and doctors to provide much better healthcare. it can identify negative things of our society as well and not just positive discoveries. that's the challenge that we have as ai becomes part of everything around us. >> what sort of breakthrough, should we anticipate here in the next year ahead. why is that happening? this is now whether across the globe people are in schools,
whether computer programming and this is what they are learning and how quickly do we see this happening? >> it's taking over everything in schools and everybody is doing it. it's going to of human like thought with some errors, and what happens is they suck all the information out on the web and then they appear to understand it. people are now investing heavily to make these things multimedia which means video and so forth and so on, and they become collections of knowledge which eventually can generate new papers, new ideas, poetry, all of these sorts of things. the results are impressive. they're imprecise and still learning. when this is done it will look human like to us. >> can you go into how ai learns, like the process of learning and how it progresses to make its recommendations which, we should keep in mind, are really only recommendations
when we move forward and taking in that information. but i'm really curious about the learning aspect. >> so machine learning algorithms work by having access to large amounts of data, at least today. and, in fact, one of the challenges is how could they learn from less data, so they get lots of experience, that makes social media where there's lots of data, also a place where ai can learn a lot. and then from that they're able to identify patterns, and often patterns people wouldn't identify in the data. so one of the things we talk about in the book is that you can think of ai as perceiving the world in ways that are sometimes different from the way that people perceive the world. this is a fantastic opportunity in things like discovery where it might discover things people might not see, but also, as eric said, ai is emergent, things happen that we don't expect and those emergent things can be good but they also can pose problems. >> these ai systems are discovering stuff in games, for example, humans have played for
hundreds of years no human has ever seen. are they seeing a new world? are they seeing a new reality or something that we miss? are they inventing something at that we as humans cannot understand? it's going to be strange when we have this system next to us and we don't fully understand what it understands and we think it might know something that we cannot understand. that's a good example of the impact. ai accelerates everything. it makes things tougher. it makes decisions in the military much quicker. it allows for misinformation at a clearer scale. the objective function is the answer for ai if the objective function is set wrong, the wrong thing will happen. >> eric, we take it for granted what ai does for us in our daily lives. i can be driving in my car speak into the air and a gps system will find me a better route to get around the traffic. it's just extraordinary, but we take it for granted. those are the good things in our daily lives. you've talked about some of the concerns you have as this moves forward at the pace that you're
describing. what should we be thinking about? what should we be worried about as ai grows at this rapid pace? >> well, we're going to end up with these incredibly smart partners and those partners will help us with sort of science discoveries, biology, a lot more drugs -- life is going to be much better. but, also, we're going to have to live with the algorithm in the sense a lot of things that we do, somebody is going to be programming how that sorts itself out and we may rebel. if you look at history, what happens when people see something that is sort of overwhelming to them, they either rebel in the form of a revolution, or they decide it's a new religion. we don't know how people will react to these strong new systems. >> it's so fascinating. it is the future. the book is "the age of a.i. and our human future." congratulations on the book. thanks for being here this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning
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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful sunrise over the united states capitol at 7:58 in the morning. and things are about to get very, very busy side that building. it is friday, november 5. i'm willie geist. jonathan lemire still with us. after months of negotiations the house is set to vote today on both the build back better act and the bipartisan
infrastructure bill. overnight the rules committee voted along party lines to advance the final parts of legislation to the full house. debate now scheduled to begin in just a few moments. joining us from capitol hill, nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. good morning. what are we about to see? >> reporter: willie, that sunrise picture is the last peaceful, quiet moment we're likely to have up here in quite a while. the floor opens here any minute now. we're going to first see debate on the rule here, a procedural vote, that will probably tell us a lot about how today is going to go. house democratic leaders think they were able to corral all the necessary votes to move that soft infrastructure, the human infrastructure, the build back better piece, forward today that will take up most of the day. we expect to see some procedural challenges from republicans. but if house democrats have their ducks in a row, that vote will pass today. and then almost as an afterthought we will see the hard infrastructure bill, the bipartisan infrastructure bill that passed the senate several
months ago, also pass through the house and sent to the president's desk. the way to look at what's happened the last 36 hours or so is more like the ncaa tournament, survive and advance. you saw speaker pelosi cutting deals, making moves, trying to find some way to move this bigger bill forward one step, one vote at a time. we know it's going to get changed in the senate, but they felt they had to get these votes done today before the house is scheduled to be out for the whole next week. >> garrett, joe manchin obviously got a little heated earlier this week. told progressives to stop holding bipartisan infrastructure bill hostage. and has been saying all along, vote on that bill, joe biden and i have a $1.75 trillion agreement. we're going to figure this out. is that where it is, in fact, going to be going, first of all? and, secondly, will joe biden, and i'll ask jonathan lemire this next, will joe biden have a
bill signing ceremony even while they're still debating the other bill, negotiating the other bill? >> reporter: well, on the manchin question, i think that's exactly the off ramp they have chosen to take, to trust that joe biden and joe manchin are going to negotiate a final bill that looks enough like what they're going to pass through the house today that they're okay with it. it became increasingly clear to democrats across the spectrum that the idea they could just hold on to the bipartisan infrastructure bill long enough to break joe manchin's opposition to elements of the bigger bill, that was going to be a failing strategy. and i think that became especially clear after tuesday night's election results when it looked to democrats like they needed to get something done. so you saw that process start to move forward here a little bit, and manchin still sticking to his guns just as he was with you the other morning. as for a signing ceremony, that's a white house department question but it sure wouldn't surprise me. part of the goal here is
democrats know they have to start showing people what they are doing for them, and there's probably no better way to do that than with the president of the united states handing out those ceremonial pens and saying, look, we have new bridges and roads and airports coming to your community soon. >> and, by the way, the very people that need to be around there getting those pens, people like abigail spanberger and other democrats in competitive seats in virginia to california and every space in between, that will determine whether kevin mccarthy is the speaker of the house next year or whether the democrats control the house next year or in early 2023. jonathan lemire, i'll ask you the same question. do you think joe biden moves forward and has a bill signing ceremony? if, in fact, the infrastructure bill passes, even while they're negotiating the other bill? >> well, joe, i'll start by picking up garrett's ncaa analogy and say he's the number one seed.
tbd as to whether this would happen today. the president and first lady are scheduled to go to collin powell's funeral this afternoon, so that may not be the optics they want, a celebratory thing after such a somber event. the president is expected to spend the weekend in his home in rehoboth beach, delaware. they want this image, this victory, and even whether this is monday before they do the rose garden thing, still a lot of negotiations still to go on the reconciliation package even if it gets to the house today as we've been detailing all morning it would have to go to the senate, change back to the house. there's still plenty of time there and that ceremony could still be used as a motivating tool, an image for those congressmen and women who are so desperate to have something to run on next year. >> they really need it. susan del percio, it was very instructive last week, joe manchin getting knocked around by progressives, oh, you're not a real democrat. you're not this, you're not
that. and manchin said, hey listen, i'm fine with zero. i come from a state with 69% of people in west virginia, well, they voted for donald trump, and you can talk all day about what's best for west virginian people or new york city and washington, d.c., but i've represented them my whole adult life, and i listen to them. they tell me what they want, and they don't want a $3.5 trillion bill, right? and so manchin says i can be at zero. can i go back home and i'll be totally fine with that. i thought it was very instructive, too, what he said on our show yesterday. he said, you want to see the people i represent? look at the results in the virginia governor's race in southwest virginia where youngkin got over 80% of the vote. that's who i represent. i think both of those points were very clarifying for a lot of democrats, and maybe that's
why things are moving the way they are. >> they are because joe manchin has been consistent, something we don't see from our elected officials very often, but he has been not just on message, he is acting as he has always done over the years as he has said. what's an important takeaway, i think, for the democrats now is they understand when joe manchin says something, he means it. and you want to negotiate with him, you'd better come in good faith, which i do think, frankly, that the progressive caucus has done in good faith, to be fair, but he's telling you where it's at and he's not going to change. it looks like now, finally, the democrats as a whole are looking at reality, whether they misread or overread into the virginia race or not, they are looking at the reality of what is and they have to get something done. this is so late, and i would just like to add by the time
this goes through the senate, we will most likely be coming up against the debt ceiling, so we're going to see mitch mcconnell back into this mix of conversation. and it's going to get more difficult for this bill to progress if they also have the debt ceiling fight going on. >> garrett haake, you're the dick vitale of this ncaa tournament. >> of course, of course. >> tell us about the theme of these negotiations, the real lack of trust between progressives and the democratic party and the more conservative/moderate counterparts. you know this better than anyone sitting here, house speaker pelosi doesn't bring a vote to the floor unless she thinks she has the votes. what has happened here to bridge this distrust, to make these two sides willing to work together? but how much does it still loom when the actions go to the senate? >> reporter: it's that both sides recognize they need to work and them need to get something, at least if not across the finish line, to have
it start moving. there was widespread recognition the american people were getting sick of the process and holding one bill to advance the other wasn't going to work. i do think a couple things happened behind the scenes that might have made a difference here. you had the president's visit last week in which there were a lot of things spilled about the fact he didn't ask for a vote on a specific time frame on the build back better bill but members of the house would have to trust him to work on the senate. secondly, there was a meeting that happened between perfect jayapal and sinema. that was late last week. jayapal and members of the progressive caucus came out feeling much more confident they could get what they needed through on the senate side. i think that meeting will have been pivotal.
not even necessarily trust here but recognition this has to be done and the senate will have to do their work, too. we will have to do this again to iron out what's left in the bill. the impetus to action, i think outweighed any other strategic concern here. >> all right, the dick vitale of capitol hill reporters, nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. thank you so much. now the chairman of the select committee investigating the january 6 attack on the capitol is telling reporters 20 new subpoenas but wouldn't say when they're going to be served or who is going to be subpoenaed. >> who is in this next batch? like, what kind of -- >> oh, i can't -- well, some of the people that have been written about, some of the people who haven't been written about, you know, we're just doing our body of work.
>> bennie thompson also told reporters no members of congress have been subpoenaed yet. and there will not be another public hearing before thanksgiving. the mississippi democrat confirmed an earlier statement from top republican liz cheney on that committee from wyoming, and she said it's conducted 150 interviews. thompson added there are quite a few more left to do all over the country. though repeatedly asked, the chairman gave no indication whether attorney john eastman, who wrote the blueprint for vice president pence to actually overturn the united states constitution and stop certification of the election, is going to be among those who are going to be served. with us let's bring in the political reporter for "the washington post," the co-author of the book "peril" robert costa. msnbc national security analyst michael schmidt, the author of the book "donald trump v. the united states." i want to get both of your
reaction first to this news. bob. i'll start with you. >> this decision on whether president trump needs to share his phone records, he will likely appeal this up to the supreme court. i've been looking at u.s. versus nixon from 1974 and chief justice warren berger. that's a decision that will rest with this supreme court. are they going to allow trump out of office to make claims of confidentiality and executive president when there was an insurrection at the u.s. capitol? will the supreme court consider an insurrection a crime worthy of investigation? this committee is hamstrung, doesn't have the tools it needs or the documents.
>> a federal judge yesterday appears poised to deny donald trump's request to block the release of the white house documents. on the grounds of executive privilege, to stop a wide-ranging set of documents from being turned over by the november 12 deadline. trump's lawyers argue in addition to the documents, the committee's request is invalid because it can only seek material directly related to writing ledge lags. the district judge said are you saying the president's notes, talking points and records of telephone conversations on january 6 have no bearing on the investigation? these are about who the president was talking to as people were breaking windows and climbing into the capitol. suggesting some of the requests did appear to be too broad. the judge said she would be in a better position, quote, if the
current administration objected to it but it didn't. the judge also asking what the president knew and when he knew it. said it was going to be critical what was going on on january 6th. >> to what robert was saying not only, obviously, would this go to the supreme court and the supreme court have to decide that. trump has probably a pretty poor legal argument here. the question is the timing. how long will this take? trump throughout his presidency was able to stop stuff from going out to congress by simply delaying letting it go through the courts. the democrats have a short runway, or they think they do, for this investigation because they want to get it done before the mid-term elections and probably several months before the actual voting and campaigning begins. that means they only have six
more months of investigating to go and if trump ties this up in the courts they could go the distance without those materials. how good are those materials? are they white house aides going back and forth and saying, you know, this is exactly what trump is doing as the insurrection is going on? perhaps. or is it simply a lot of what we heard from the president, his rhetoric rewritten in statements that were never put out or in proclamations he never signed. it's unclear whether this is game-changing information that really turns our understanding of january 6th upside-down or if it's just more of the same sort of false rhetoric that the president was pushing. >> hey, bob costa, it's jonathan lemire. let's talk about the politics of this. we heard michael say there's a hope to get this wrapped up in
the next handful of months. this is something we're going to hear from democrats saying, look, you can't return a party to power that supports insurrection and a man you have covered so well over the years, donald trump. walk us through how you think this plays out. how big of a deal will this be the next time voters cast their ballots? >> frankly the politics is irrelevant until we know all the facts and voters and citizens and reporters deserve to know all the facts. on january 5, 2021, donald trump calls into the war room at the willard hotel, talks to bannon and giuliani and the pressure campaign against vice president pence, called ted cruz and other lawmakers, on january 6 he calls pence again in the morning.
we know these data points. what else don't we know? who else was trump calling? was he trying to pressure state legislatures? we know he was doing that on january 2nd and 3rd. what was he doing on the 5th and 6th? were there communications with other people at the willard hotel? there are so many questions that people deserve to know whether it's congress or reporters and until those questions are answered we won't have a real picture of the insurrection, until we have a real picture of the insurrection we won't have an understanding of what the political impact should be or is. >> you know, we've been talking about the virginia races, the new jersey races, but you didn't hear about voter fraud after tuesday's election. you can bet the party will be back to crying about rigged elections the next cycle especially considering the candidates' former president donald trump is backing for governor in key swing states are
talking about that wherever they go on the campaign trail. nbc news political reporter vaughn hillyard has more on those candidates openly saying they wouldn't have certified the 2020 election. >> i think the america first movement is the most important in this country. >> reporter: this is carrie lake, at the heart of this story, a candidate for office in 2022 who could though the u.s. into election chaos. you said the 2020 election was stolen. would you have certified arizona's results? >> hell no. >> carrie lake -- [ applause ] whoa. >> reporter: she caught trump's attention over the summer. >> wow. this could be a big night for you. >> reporter: she is now trump's pick to be arizona's governor. she already has a following like lake who refuses to say she
would have certified the 2020 election. >> how close to a constitutional crisis were we? >> i think we came very chess to a constitutional crisis. >> reporter: trump pressured current governor doug ducey last year but ducey did not back down, even silencing a call from the white house. as he officially signed the vote for biden. >> governor ducey was horrible. he was missing in action. >> reporter: now lake is looking to replace him. >> doug ducey should have never certified it. >> reporter: it's georgia, michigan, nevada, pennsylvania, wisconsin -- all of these swing states have races for governor in 2022. those states' governors in 2020 all signed off on their state's results. in 2024 -- >> many of those people will be gone in 2024. >> reporter: in georgia last year trump called on the state's republican governor brian kemp to resign after he, like ducey made biden's win official.
then on the morning of the insurrection -- >> donald trump has just begun. i'm a part of his team and we will take back this country. >> reporter: that man a georgia legislator taking to the stage in washington in defense of trump. he is now running for governor. >> he's a
great guy, he's smart, he's tough. vernon jones. >> i stand for free, fair and transparent elections. >> reporter: why should one trust that you would have certified the election results in the state of georgia in 2024 if joe biden were to win another re-election or another democrat? >> that is your narrative, what you want to push -- >> reporter: but you're not willing to say you would have certified the 2020 election. >> i will certify anything that's legal. >> reporter: some states require the signoff of their secretary of state. trump trying to influence here, too. a state legislature who was also outside the capitol.
lake is already making campaign stops. this week lake throwing what she calls an election integrity rally. >> november 3 we witnessed that steal go down. >> reporter: reviews found no voter fraud that would have impacted the outcome but no mention of
that here n. 2024 would you be willing to put the country in a position potentially of a constitutional crisis by not certifying arizona's results? >> in 2024? let's just take it slow here and get through decertifying. i don't want to look into hypotheticals. >> reporter: next year's governor races with ripple effects for the 2024 presidential election. >> let me ask you, would you certify a crooked, corrupt election? would you certify a crooked, corrupt election? just to make peace? yes? no? that's not how i operate.
i do what's right. >> well, no, obviously you don't also operate in the way the people who love the united states constitution would operate. you don't operate in the way republican officials of maricopa county have been saying you should operate. you don't operate in the way that bases across phoenix and arizona would say you should operate. if you want to see the face of somebody who is a threat to democracy, you just saw her face, despite the repeated number of recounts in arizona, despite the fact they brought in a scam group who actually had a leader who is a conspiracy theorist, and they still figured out donald trump lost. donald trump lost in arizona about as many times as the baltimore orioles lost baseball games this past year. and you still have conspiracy
theorists, fruit loops who are saying the hell with the you constituents constitution. that is the face right there, what you just saw from vaughn hillyard, of the insurgency, of people who say we're not going to follow what the united states constitution says. it's a fascist insurgency that a small group of people i think right now are trying to launch against american democracy, undermine madisonian democracy. michael schmidt, that is the real threat to american democracy, people like that would get elected, and let's be fair here. let's be fair to republicans right here. republicans in virginia said no to that fascism. republicans in virginia said no to that. yes, youngkin talked about campaign integrity and all this
other stuff but he was out yesterday shaking the hands of his democrat. he didn't campaign on that sort of nonsense. republicans have found there is a pathway to getting elected, a middle pathway where you can keep dauld trump out of your state. if you look at arizona, ohio, some other states, there are frightening candidates rising to the top out there. >> i guess the question and the problem what is there to do? so if one of these people were to win governor in one of these states in the elections as laid out what is there to do? how many more pieces by vaughn hillyard or books by bob costa or long pieces in "the washington post" or "the new york times" about this problem, i'm not sure any of that changes anything for this group of
people. you saw vaughn going back and forth with the politician from georgia. it's a different reality. i found the same when we were talking to john eastman, the lawyer who tried to help trump with overturning the election, it's like talking to someone on a different planet, a different set of facts and a reality difficult to penetrate and i don't know -- earlier in my career we just go out there and put the facts out there and assume the public will pick them up but this is this significant portion and who knows how long, maybe it's smaller than it is and it just sounds louder but that is immovable on this issue. i don't nope what the answer is. >> it's not a different reality. it's a lie and here is the thing, they know they're lying.
they know they're lying to their constituents, they know they're lying to the american people. they know they're lying to the reporters they're talking about. they've seen all the recounts, they know the truth. they're just saying, hey, i'm willing to overthrow a legitimate democratic election because i want to seize power. bob costa -- >> joe? >> comment on that and then i want to ask you a follow-up. go ahead. >> for any of this to happen it needs buy-in from lawmakers on capitol hill. and one of the turning points in 2020 was december 30th, 2020, when a senator decides to object to the certification. if arizona, let's say, in december 2024 decides to send in alternates ahead of that certification, if you have a governor who wants to send an alternate slate, it still needs congress and congressional republicans to buy in. the challenge for american democracy is without evidence of
fraud many republicans in the senate and the house stood up in december and january in the past year and said we're going to still try to push for this even though there wasn't evidence and that's the gap in the system. if congress buys in, then you have real peril. >> and you know, bob, you and i followed the republican party pre-trump, during trump's candidacy and now post-trump. i'm interested on your view what happens with the republican party, especially on the national level with somebody like youngkin doing as well as he did. it looks like a new pathway forward. and it just struck me you have a lot of people like nikki haley that have been trying over the past five years to strike some balance between not going too far overboard, being crazy regarding donald trump's conspiracy theories but at the same time trying to hold on to his loyalty. i can neighboring about 10, 15 national figures who want to be president who have been trying to do that.
then you have glenn youngkin who kept donald trump in a lock box, kept him out of his state. he got elected. he doesn't have to answer any of these questions. why were you still supporting donald trump after the january 6th insurrection? why were you still supporting donald trump when he was calling for the arrest of joe biden two weeks before the election? those hundreds of questions that everybody else would have to answer. does this put all of these republicans that were around during trump's administration at a disadvantage to somebody like glenn youngkin who just doesn't have to deal with it? >> my reporter's assessment i'm wary of saying it's a playbook for the republican party this is a republican party that has been in lock step with donald trump. so many of these contenders have enabled trump at nearly every turn.
this idea they can be business-minded outsiders without any real connection to donald trump is hard to see that playing out. he has compromised many of these figures running for the presidency or the senate that they're still in his thrall and they know it. come 2024 when he's governor and virginia's legislature may want to do something with the election count, he could be tested as well. the trump shadow still hovers. >> all right, robert costa and michael schmidt, thank you for your reporting and for being here this morning. a programming note this sunday night a new documentary from msnbc delves into rudy giuliani's infamous press conference at four seasons total landscaping one year later. four seasons total documentary
takes a closer look at the people behind the business and what happened after it became an internet sensation. four seasons total documentary airs this sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. and still ahead on "morning joe," this october's employment report numbers due out in just a few minutes. economists expect a number of new hires to be up. but then again, so are the prices of a lot of household items. we'll talk about the impact of inflation on the upcoming holidays next on "morning joe." the best things america makes are the things america makes out here. the history she writes in her clear blue skies. the legends she births on hometown fields.
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anchor stephanie rule with some breaking news from new jersey where she gives us a firsthand look at the supply chain crisis in the country. first, this number, the economy added 531,000 new jobs. a big bump from last month. >> reporter: big, big number, over 500,000 jobs. remember, this is the first month we've seen since those expanded unemployment benefits ended. it's also when kids are back in school where there's been more child care opportunities in the country. so we saw a lot of people go back to work. surprisingly where i am at a trucking depot, we didn't see a huge increase in transportation jobs. that will change. there is going to be huge hiring, seasonal workers, over 500,000 to 600,000 people are expected to get hired in the next month going in for retail jobs, a place like a fedex,
u.p.s., the postal service, an increase in jobs getting ready for the holidays with wages going up, with big businesses continuing to hire so much, what will that mean for the small mom and pop shops that you and i went to growing up here in new jersey? they cannot compete. we're seeing wages go up again, now up 5% from last year, which is in line with inflation and it makes you wonder what will happen at the local pizza shop? it's good for workers getting paid more but i wonder about small businesses. >> small businesses are already operating on the tightest of margins, those family businesses that you're talking about, startups, just throwing everything in the business to make it a success. it's interesting you were talking about the end of the unemployment checks from the covid relief bill. we heard some economists
predicting the number would go up because of that. there are a lot of people in the democratic party that said, oh, no, that's not it. it's 1,000 different things and maybe it was quite a few things. but, again, you look at these numbers, right on cue, those benefits start to run out and, bam, 531,000 new jobs, the unemployment rate dropping to 4.6%. the numbers are going in the right direction. >> reporter: don't forget, joe, yes, you have to factor in those other things, you can't forget covid. covid numbers have dropped an enormous amount. many businesses brought their employees back, big businesses. so, yes, it was those benefits running out without a doubt. the fact covid is moving further away from us, that's also bringing people back to work. >> talking about the supply chain crisis, what are you
seeing from that trucking company behind you? what are they telling you and what does it tell us about the larger problem in america? >> reporter: they are trying to hire, hire, hire. before covid and now it's only gotten worse. we talk all about the supply chain issue. the question is going to be to the administration. i'm going to be talking to transportation secretary pete buttigieg in the next hour. they say the administration will pull out all the stops to address the supply chain issue. what does that mean? will they lower the age of truck drivers, bring the national guard in to work at some of these ports, change some of the ports available for cargo ships? they're working overtime but can they bring enough on. these backlogs, the administration can tell you all day long, oh, it's short term. when you go to any of your thanksgiving dinners, people will talk how hard it is to find
things. >> steph, if donald trump were president he would have been holding press conferences and record highs in the stock market, something joe biden doesn't talk about, but let's talk about it. the stock market keeps going up and up and up. investors have a lot in the economy. why? >> reporter: we are in an economic recovery and you cannot forget the fed has pumped so much money into the system. they have been buying bonds since the beginning of this pandemic. that certainly helped the stock market. we've also seen an enormous amount of support. we are in a clear economic recovery. to say that we're not in positive territory would be factually incorrect. we're in a good place and i would remind people we talk about wall street and investors, that's also pensions, 401(k)s,
there are teachers and police officers, anybody with a retirement fund is benefiting from the market going up. it's not just the big, big rich guys on wall street. >> and, by the way, stephanie, let's circle back to something you said earlier. critical race theory and crime. bill clinton was right. it's about the economy, stupid and our economy, you just brought it up earlier. our economy right now is tied to covid infection rates. the economy goes down. suddenly the economy booming. it looks like we're tied to this pandemic economically over time. >> reporter: we absolutely are and this administration, joe, has to remember that and has to remember they need to talk about
inflation. that matters to people day in and day out. i interviewed janet yellen and she repeated what fed chair jay powell said, it's just transitory. you can't just say it's transitory because when my mother goes to the grocery store today, she is going to call me tonight and talk about those prices. people vote on what affects them not offends them. when glenn youngkin says we're going to get rid of taxes at the grocery store, that matters to people. democrats should talk about it more. >> so much to talk about. we'll hand things over to you in just a few minutes. coming up next here breaking news from pfizer in the fight against covid. we'll be right back. nst covid. we'll be right back.
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i talked to a couple people on the virginia elections in my new podcast. i speak with campaign communication strategist for hillary clinton and joe biden presidential spain adrienne elrod and show time's "the circus" jennifer palmieri to showcase what is next for the democratic party that spans from joe manchin to alexandria ocasio-cortez, they give their takes on are the democrats going to be able to come back? by the way, i think they are. coming up next, we've got r.e.m., an interview with r.e.m., who i interviewed on the podcast a couple weeks ago. they're going to be up straight ahead talking about a 25th anniversary. they're really excited about. we'll be right back.
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at xfinity.com/moving. ♪♪ it's a real thrill for me to bring i'll just say it. i'm just such a huge fan of rem. mike mills and mike stipend. they are here for a very special occasion. "new adventures in hi-fi" separating its 25th anniversary. thank you so much for being here. michael, let's start with you. why is this album so for so many r.e.m. fans? why does it connect in a way some of the other beloved albums do not. >> it's my favorite record that r.e.m. ever made. and it came at a time when we were in between world
domination. our first tour ever, in five or six years, in 1995. and kind of moving into what was going to become the next phase of r.e.m. and we were at our peak as songwriters. >> mike, talk about the album for you. it came at -- it came at a really difficult time for the band. i think three of you ended up battling serious illnesses. obviously, the worst of that, an aneurysm. you went through all of that. you put this album out. i'm wondering, how did that not only shape the album, but more importantly, how did those experiences shape you as an artist. >> you know, when people look at that tour, they talk about these things that happened to us. and for us really, they were serious things, especially that aneurysm, but it was really just the law of averages catching up. but i remember how cool it was
to go out and play for all of those people and all of those countries around the world and see that that music had penetrated all of those maskts and had the affect that we hoped it would have. we really enjoyed the tour. the record itself is a record we wanted to medicate being on the road without writing songs about being on the road. so really the energy and the fatigue and the insanity of traveling from country to country, from city to city, every day, infuses the record, but none of the songs, with the exception of maybe "departure," are actually about that. >> michael, i want to talk to you about music and politics. your views. the views of your fans. i remember watching you guys in foster auditorium in tuscaloosa in september of 1984. it seems like yesterday. it was one of the more exciting concerts i ever went to. and michael, you decided that
you were going to give it the old college try for walter mondale a couple of months before his election with reagan. the audience didn't respond really well, but it leads me to this question, that i've got friends that have been out on the road, that are still out on the road, in these very weird times. and i'm always curious how, as artists, you play for a crowd who adore you, musically. who worship you musically, who worship you artistically, and yet have political views and support political candidates who cause you grave concern. >> then and now, we were and have always been just exactly ourselves, as a group and as individuals. and having the platform of the stage and the lights and the microphones to be able to protect our opinions about politics and activism, we took advantage of it. we alienated a huge percentage
of our fans in doing so, but i think we were right. you know, at the time, we all thought that reagan -- i mean, maybe you didn't, actually, joe, but you came around. we thought that reagan was as dark as it got. and, you know, and god only knows what might have put us in the last administration that we've all had to endure. what a disaster. at any rate. we were always just exactly who we were. and some people were really offended by that, and i'm sorry, but there it is. >> well, mike, at the same time, there are other people who may not have shared your views, who again, bought all of your albums, went to all of your concerts and were huge fans, especially across the deep south, and i do wonder again, what it's like being up on stage when you're playing and there's such a connection musically. there's a connection artistically, but there's not a
connection politically. and for a lot of bands, they just don't give damn. they don't really care, because politics doesn't mean that much to them. but for you, it really meant an awful lot. did you ever have problems separating those two things? you know, art is politics anyway, for the most part. you can't make art without being informed about how you feel about, you know, government and life and how people are behaving and what they're doing to and for and with each other. and we were there from the very beginning. you go all the way back and listen to half the songs on "document" are pretty overtly political. anyone that was surprised later on to find that we were progressive or politically oriented or whatever, they just weren't paying attention in the first place. because we were never shy or quiet about it. my opinion is when people say things about, why don't you just play your music, my feeling is,
everyone should be involved with politics. everyone should care about politics. if every single american paid attention and infused at least a little bit of their life with politics, we would have a more informed electorate, we would elect better people, and be better off as a country. i think it's something that should be important to everyone, as it's important to us. >> michael, a couple of years ago, you got off instagram. i think it's fascinating, three years later, everybody is talking about instagram. the fact that it drives depression, suicide, or at least suicidal ideations, especially in teenage girls, but also causes a range of other emotional problems for americans. you look at what facebook has been doing. you look at the fact that they propagate propaganda, allowed not only propaganda coming from outside countries, but also propaganda about vaccines, propaganda about covid, propaganda about all the things that i think most rational
people are concerned about. and i'm just wondering what you saw back in 2018 that caused you that much concern. and if you don't feel like you weren't more than one to two steps ahead of everybody else. >> well, the people, joe, that set these platforms up started out kind of heroic. and as people that were visionary and had an eye to the future of how through this new technology were able to communicate and know everything. and they turned out to be the robber barons of the digital age. a lot of them are not good people. the fish rots from the head. so i look at twitter, i look at facebook, i look at instagram, bought by facebook. i look at google, which we're speaking on right now, and i'm concerned about a lot of the kind of the behind the scenes aspects of what they're presenting through these platforms that are free to us, but we are -- by hitting "allow," we are allowing them
into our lives in a way that i don't think most people would be terribly comfortable with. so as an activist, i'm just not interested in participating. it leaves me a little bit in the dust of where we are right now. and i am actually writing about that in the work that i'm doing now. but what's the guy's name? jared linear wrote the book, ten reasons to get off social media now. i read that and acknowledge and recognize that i felt exactly the same way as he did about this. it's a cancer. >> and they are the robber barons of our age. they run monopolies and they don't pay taxes. they certainly don't pay taxes at a rate that people that do clerical work for them or clean their offices pay. it's extraordinary -- it's just extraordinary. >> i would love to add that your activism and your voice on your show, i've been watching for a really long time, and i agree,
as an activist, i appreciate the positions you have taken of late. and i want to applaud you for that. i really mean that sincerely. >> well, that means the world to me. >> and a big thanks to r.e.m.'s mike stipe and mike mills. it was great having them here. and you can listen to my full interview with the music legends on episode 12 of "the joe scarborough podcast." that does it for us this morning. thank you so much for watching this week. greatly appreciated and we'll see you on monday. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right after a quick final break. s up the coverage right after a quick final break.
hey, there. i'm stephanie ruhle, live in carlstat, new jersey. this morning, we are coming to you live from xpo logistics, a freight transportation company at the heart of one of this country's biggest current challenges. getting the things you buy home to you. we're going to start this morning with breaking news. the october jobs report is out and it is a big one. 531,000 jobs were added last month, with the unemployment number falling to 4.6%. and wages, well, they went up, as well. remember, this is important. because october was the first full month of hiring after those enhanced jobless benefits expired. it also comes as the covid situation has steadily improved. kids w