tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC November 4, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
against obama care and became a trumper. sewing dout is another example of the onslaught of propaganda barreling towards our families and health. be save out there. that's tonight's reidout. i mean that's tonight's absolute worst and tonight's reidout. chris hays starts now with all in starts now. tonight on all in the doj sues texas for voter suppression as florida announces pa new election police force. >> we are going to create a separate office at the state level solely dedicated to investigating and prosecuting election crimes in the state of florida. >> ton, the republican effort to choke off democracy unless they win. then a brand-new grand jury investigating the former president's company and how truch's executive privilege claim had a bad day in court. plus, the predictable freakout
as the biden administration finally releases vaccine guidelines for private companies. and as the world meets on climate in scotland, how a major solution may exist in a metal box in iceland. all in" starts right now. good evening, from new york i'm chris hayes. on the night of the virginia gubernatorial election votes are coming in. the failed former president of the united states released a statement, he is not allowed to tweet any more. quote all eyes on fire fairfax. why the clay trump was talking about fairfax county, the most populace in the state of virginia. we know what he was doing there. he spent five years driving conspiracy theories about voter fraud. and there have been very real world consequences playing out day by day from the sham audit in virginia earizona. hilariously found joe biden won more votes than initially believed to the current republican school scheme in pen
ten to collect ever voter in the state personal information to somehow prove non-existent fraud there as well. there are the ways trump is actively undermining democracy calling state and local election officials pressuring one to find votes needed to overturn results. endorsing candidates who support his claims of a stolen collection. all of which is to say we know what donald trump means when he sends out one of his non-tweet statements on election night saying all eyes on a heavily democratic county. he and ahighs setting ground work for days. before the election trump said we must win bigger than the margin of fraud by flooding the polls with those that believe in america first. it's a sentiment former speaker of the house newt ginrich echoed on fox news. >> what it's if really tight? >> if it's -- first of all, if it's really tight they'll steal it. you can't afford to have a really tight election. you have to win by the big
enough margin they can't steal it. >> just casual, like, oh yeah if it's tight they'll steal it. didn't stop there during the youngkin rly in blacks burg virginia, john rich said why the hell is stacey abrahams in virginia what's that? what is she doing up here. we know what she is doing. she is working on it. to do you think california voted for gavin newsom again? i don't think is to stacey abrams is out there too. so there was a lot of supposedly concern in trump world about quote stealing the election leading up to it. and then nothing. none of the alleged fraud ever materialized because, of course, republican glenn youngkin won the race and according to trump and allies elections are only illegitimate when democrats win them. it's the heads i win tails you lose theory of american politics. and there is an interesting angle to all this in virginia which is a state that has a 45-day window of early voting, including no excuse absentee
ballots by mail. a policy which if you were remember anything from the 2020 election was a problem according to many republicans. in fact when josh hawley in missouri tried to overturn the results of the free and fair exto put the looser in over the winner against the will of the american people he specifically cited mail in ballots in states like pennsylvania as the reason why. of course, hawley is not concerned about that now because his guy won. yes, obviously it's a good thing to republicans not making boez bogus claims on election fraud. but it's worth taking a moment to just think about what would have happened if the democrat terry mccauliffe had eeked out a win by a few thousand votes? trump and his allies were transparently setting the groundwork to claim the election was rigged. if mccauliffe had narrowly won a close election they would whip supporters into a frenzy right now as i speak with protests outside the election headquarters like we saw after the 2020 election. maybe trump would even attempt
to pressure he glenn youngkin to reject the results. something youngkin to his credit plenld he wouldn't do. in fact we are seeing something like this playing out in new jersey where the democrat phil murphy defeated his republican challenger in an election much closer than anyone predicted. some republican talking heads including acting trump homeland security official and former virginia attorney general ken cuccinelli are pushing the trump conspiracy theories about the votes in new jersey. we are not seeing the trump effort to overturn the will of the voters there. because new jersey is a blue state and republicans didn't expect to win there. there wasn't a sense of oh it was stolen we were so revved up and he won anyway. there is very much an effort by allies to claim the election was rigged which they reflectionively do every time a republican loses. it would be easy to dismiss it as the whining and trolling of losers or paranoid delusional
people. but the problem is it comes from trump on all the way down and creates the unsustainable eek which lib breenl in politics where democrats lose and acknowledge defeat and move on where the republicans lose the election is stolen. our process is illegitimate. there is of course every since always the specter of at violent mass movement where most recently a full-fledged insurrection to overturn the results of the-free and fair election because the republican candidate lost. and that's part of a broader problem which is the conservative project as a whole essentially getting radicalized in its base against the pillars of representative democracy. one of those pillars until relatively recently was of course the voting rights act. one of the greatest achievements in the history of our democracy. that prohibited racially discriminatory voting laws which was only necessary because the amendment that had done that, the 15th amendment was just violated.
it also dramatically increased black voter participation in the south. it prohibited racially discriminatory laws and as you see in the chart it increased black voter participation in the south. look at the graph. the orange barclays are black voter registration before the vra passed. the blue barclays represent registration after the vra. almost instant. look at that. the law has been slowly gutted by chief justice john roberts supreme court over the last few years and for context in the not so distant past reauthorizing the vra used to be a bipartisan non-controversial enterprise. in 2006 no more than mitch mcconnell of kentucky whipped votes in favor. republican president george w. bush signed it in law. he made a show of it. well now democrats try to restore the law to basically what it was before the supreme court of john roberts got its hands on it. and what they're proposing is called the john lieus voting rights advancement act named after the civil rights hero who
shed blood in the battle for equal participation for black americans in our democracy. democrats are trying to fill the holes. the supreme court poekds in voting rights through a number of voting rights bills. and now republicans want nothing to do with it. in fact when the john lewis bill came up for a vote yesterday the same mitch mcconnell who once kwhipd votes for ve. authorization apprehending the new law was tantamount to a partisan power grab. >> practically every single week senate democrats make another faemt at grabbing new power over america's elections. rather than congressional democrats trying to grab all the power for themself they are instead trying to pull off the power grab on behalf of of the democratic attorney general. instead of washington democrats and the legislative branch seizing power over elections in the country, it will be washington democrats and the executive branch. >> i mean, of course the problem with that argument is it proves
too much. you can say precisely the same thing about the 1965 voting rights act. maybe mcconnell thinks those criticisms are all right too. notice how mcconnell does not engage with the merits of the bill. instead he reframes it into some kind of scary takeover of local elections. one republican ultimately supported that legislation yesterday. one. senator lisa murkowski of alaska. there are 50 republicans in the senate. only murkowski vote supported the basic voting rights protections. the republican party is increasingly radicalizing against democracy in a situation where they can compete for elections and use the constitutional advantages they have in the senate and electoral college which are significant and growing and they use the control they have at the state level to make voting harder also making people believe that voter fraud is rampant. we can see it play out all over the country from north carolina republicans push the extreme gerry manneder to squeed out democratic opposition to florida where ron desantis wants to set up an office of election crimes
and security. ostensibly to investigate the bogus allegations of voter fraud. but also pretty transparently to intimidate people who might vote for democrats. >> we are going to create a separate office at the state level solely dedicated to investigating and prosecuting election crimes in the state of florida. the first person that gets caught no one is going to want to do it again after that because they know there is going to be enforcement. >> aside from the fact that it's clearly a mini desantis for president campaign, most importantly there is no widespread voter fraud in florida or any where else in this country for that matter. what desantis is doing is flatly an attempt to intimidate and scare people into not voting. think of it people may have a criminal record, maybe unsure where or how to vote. i'm no lawyer but it's worth noting among the many provisions
of the voting rights act is an explicit on intimidating people attempting to vote. arie burmen author of give us the ballo, the modern struggle for voting rights in american. coronell bell khmer is a democratic pollster and strategist who has insight into the impact party. on tuesday's election shenaniganings. arie, let me start with you on the desantis announcement which at one level is a stunt but at another level really strikes me as essentially simgs saying we're making an kparm of the first person caught saying we're sending a message to make people scared of voting. >> exactly. and it's just the further weaponization of the big lie. remember, desantis already signed a sweemg voter suppression bill as an exclusive on fox and friends. so they already made it harder to vote. and then now he is announcing a whole other unit that seems as
you said designed as propaganda but also could have a chilling effect on voter participation. and remember, chris, republicans created the entire system of elections in florida. so they're essentially railing against the system they created. they created drop boxes. they created no execute absentee voting. they created all of the election laws that they're now saying aren't enforced. and so it gets to what you were saying erlgier which is that if the voting system works for them they are for it. but if it doesn't work for them they're suddenly against it and saying the election is rigged. but i think the clear through line to all of this is that they choose to keep doubling down more and more on voter suppression, even when it doesn't seem to be in their political interest to do so. >> yeah, we should note desantis said i don't think we should have drop boxes even though he signed the bill two years ago that first authorized their use in the state. i mean, they should talk to the people that created the rules,
which are of course republicans. there is the fax fact coronell, i don't think anyone listens to me but i'll say it again. which is -- you listen to me, thank you, coronell. republicans are fully capable of winning high turnout elections. the idea that having -- making it easier to vote means like republicans -- like they just won in virginia. it's a stayed that did all this stuff. 45 days of no excuse a absentee voting. it's not like it has a critical clear partisan advantage to make it easier for people to vote. >> well, yes and no. i mean there is a couple of things to unpack. one is that when you look at the targeted efforts that republicans have been doing in some of the states, it does disproportionately impact voters especially in urban areas. especially disproportionately impact voters who are younger and voters of color. people that they quite frankly has not been to their benefit
that is in fact easy to vote. the other part about the big lie though -- and it's about turnout sort of the high levels of turnout is the big lie -- they are crazy like a fox. it is -- it is almost a perfect instrument for them. because, one,s with, as we know the big lie is -- is energizing sort of a republican-base energizing tool. and we have seen it as they rev up and get energized by it. and one of the things that you as a political party want to do is you want to have an enthusiastic and energized base of voters. the big lie is doing that. and it's perpetuating that. these people are stealing your country. these people are taking your country. what are you going to do about it? as opposed to, well i saw quite frankly when i was doing research after the gore/bush vit where i saw a lot of democrat thinking my vote doesn't matter because they'll just tale it or take it away. republicans are actually having the opposite impact on it.
the idea that something is taken away from them is actually energizing them. that's one. two it's also laying a predicate -- you see this as what desantis is doing. it lays down a predicate for the suppression effort that they want to build on top of. the big lie is powerful and on multiple fronts. and my question for democrats would simply be this. if they can energize their voters around the idea -- or the ideal of the big lie and use it as a predicate to take away our franchise, why the heck can't we use it as a reason to energize democrats for something bigger and say you know what, you know what the next election is about, it's about having democracy. and it is literally about saving our democracy. you know, can we energize our voters around that more so than we can energize them around the idea of what is good policy, bridges and roads and broad band but certainly not an energizing issue. >> that's interesting. the idea that this serve its
purpose is i think spot on. we see it in a bunch of states. what you'll -- in georgia appear florida or texas which arie i want to ask you about in a moment. when you ask republicans they say well we need people to trust the system. they create the distrust. profit off the distrust and then say we have to pass the laws to trust the system. today the department of justice announced it was suing texas, alleging senate bill sb 1, the sort of similar to things happening in georgia and florida, violates part of the voting rights act and sivrl rights act by imposing restrictions at polling locations and through absentee ballots. how important is this from the doej to texas, arie? >> well, i think it's an important lawsuit. it's important to remember it challenges only two parts of the texas law. there is about 20 parts of the texas law that make it harder to vote. so i'm still concerned about the 18 other provisions that the justice department decided for one reason or another not to challenge. a lot of they did say they were
going to side with other private plaintiffs already challenging this law. i think it's very clear that we are not going to litigate our way out of this mess. that if you look at the course this is going together to go through this is going to conservative district court judges. the conservative fiskt circuit the most conservative in the country. the vourt now gutted the voting rights act twice. >> right. >> that's why it's to sporn to have federal legislation protecting voting rights. that's where there is a push for the voeing rights act and freedom to vote act. because we need federal protections we once had but also need a new baseline of support for voting rights and protection of the voting rights no matter where you live. and that is going to be the way to solve this problem. just leak in 1965 the justice department was wasn't going to outgllt whole taxes and wasn't going to outorganize poll taxes and lit rayty tests. it had to pass legislation to stop the problem of voter suppression. we're in the same moment now
where there is no substitute for congressional action on voting rights. >> all right. ari berman and coronell belcher thank you both. appreciate it. today donald trump's executive privilege claims have their day in court. well they have to start turning over to the january 6th committee. plus what to make of the reporting that the probe into the trump org has a new grand jury. that's next. p org has a new gra jury that's next. unlike other cold medicines, coricidin provides powerful cold relief without raising your blood pressure be there for life's best moments with coricidin. now in sugar free liquid. ♪ feel stuck and need a loan? move to sofi and feel what it's like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ move to a sofi personal loan.
jury hearing evidence about the trump organization. today "the washington post" reported the manhattan district attorney has convened this new grand jury to hear evidence about the organization's financial practices and potentially vote on criminal charges. now that's separate from the grand jury convened this past spring which we covered. that's the one that handed down the felony indictments against two trump companies as well as the trump organization c fcht o, allen weisselberg. the post is reporting it's unclear if that grand jury is still hearing evidence. now we learn of another. that happens on a day the lawyers for donald trump were busy fielding another legal battle in d.c. the house committee investigating january 6th is requesting documents from donald trump relating to the insurrection. well from the national archives. and he is arguing the material is the protected by executive privilege. mind you, trump is not the executive in charge. president joe biden is. the white house has already said multiple times that privilege should not be invoked in this
case. today trump had his day in court. while we have not heard a ruling in the case yet. the district judge did not seem particularly convinced by arguments. ben kirk is a 30-year former federal prosecutor he was in the courtroom. he worked cases. and joes vanessa is a professor at the alabama school chl law and former u.s. attorney for are the northern district of alabama. glen, let me start with you. lay out what's at issue and what the arguments the trump lawyers were making were. >> yeah, so the trump lawyers are desperately trying to fid a reason to prevent the documents from going from the national archives over to the house select committee. these are documents and phone logs, handwritten notes, talking points that will enlighten the house select committee about what donald trump was up to in connection with the attack on the capital on january 6th. i will say i was in the courtroom for the argument.
and really argument after argument being made by justin clark, donald trump's lawyer, it was just being shot down by judge tanya chutkins. she was having none of it. one of the themes i found interesting was when the defense attorney tried to suggest that this somehow involves a dispute between the other branchs of government, she corrected him and said actually this is what she referred to as a rare instance of harmony between the other branches of government, because the executive branch, as represented by president biden, said he will not invoke executive privilege. so the executive branch wants the documents to go over. and the legislative branch as represented by the house select committee obviously wants the documents from the national archives. so they're in agreement. and she came back to this theme a couple of times saying it would actually be an improper interference by the third branch of government the judiciary to
interfere with what the other two branches concluded. >> let me read one section that lines one that trump's lawyer said there is the quarter to wide range of documents sin valid because they don't have unlimited power investigation can only seek material directly related to writing legislation. are you say really saying the president he is talking pinpoints and notes and records on january 6th have no bearing on the investigation? that was her question which is i think a relevant one. it's also -- the next question here of course joyce is about what happens, right. because there is -- there is the merits and then there is whether he can delay, right. you can rule the merits they have no case mere but you still stay turning over the documents and it goes to appeal. it will go to scotus. and the question of how long that takes then becomes the point of all the litigation. >> well, that's right. and when has delay not been trump's strategy and his reason for using litigation and going to courts? but i think there is at least a little bit of good news on that
front. judge chutkin said she would rule expeditiously. that's how they she closed the hearing. there was a little bit of back and forth between the her and doj lawyer shapiro where ms. shapiro said the judge had ample time to rule to facilitate the first release by the national archives scheduled around the middle of the upon. then two for tranches of documents released two weeks later. the judge sort of laughed at that and made fun about how busy her schedule was. but it was clear she plans to rule in a way that will permit the release of documents. and the only way that trump could get delay after that would be if he could convince the court of appeals to stay the release of documents. that's one of the reasons today's argument substantively was so important. >> right. >> the doj lawyers and the congressional lawyers did a great job of pointing out he would suffer no irreparable injury from the release because he has no personal interest in
these documents. he is no longer a sitting president. there is every reason to believe that the court of appeals won't issue any sort of stay and that the documents could well be released on schedule. >> that is a great point. and i hadn't quite thought of it in that way. i want to ask you sips i have you both have about the new reporting the new grand jury, glen, let me read from "the washington post" reporting one familiar with the matter said the grand jury was expected to examine how former company of president trump valued assets appearing a separate su the one described in the indictments from the first grand jury. what do you make of this? >> the big question -- and we have to read the tea leaves chris is it a procedural or substantive matter? sometimes one grand jury expires and we need to to impanel a second to keep the investigation going. >> right. >> but ordinarily if it it has to do with one unitary investigation what we would do is extend the first grand jury to maintain some consistency. so this has the feel of a substantive matter where they
need to impanel a new grand jury and sometimes the reason we do that is because evidence has been heard by the first grand jury that we don't want to be used as part of the indictment decision making process. so we will present only what we want the second grand jury to hear before asking for an indictment. >> that's clarifying. joyce, your thoughts? >> well, it's possible that there is a substantive reason for using a second grand jury. this looks to me more like it's procedural. in the federal system our grand juries last a lot longer and it's easier to get an extension of your grand jury. in the new york state system, the grand juries sit for a shorter period of time. it's more difficult to re-up them. this may reflect that time has run out on the original grand jury impanelled. we were expecting it to run out at some point this month or early next month. i would be careful about reading too much into this. >> all right. we will see. we will find out at some point revealed. glen, joyce, thank you both.
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and cities and counties across the country started mandating covid vaccines for police officers, firefighters and healthcare workers and teachers. many of the people forced to be vaccinated started openly threatening they were going to walk off the job. >> i know my employees very well. and i cannot afford to lose 5% to 10% of my employees overnight who will react to someone trying to impose something. >> right now, 45% of new york firefighters are unvaccinated. i don't think many have actually gone to get vaccinated. i think what's going to happen on november 1st is that they have to close down 30% to 40% of firehouse sees in new york city. >> all i can tell you is if it we suspect the numbers are true
and we get a large number of our members to stand firm on their beliefs that this is an overreach and they are not going to supply the information in the portal or submit to testing, then it's safe to say the city of chicago will have a police force at 50% or less for this weekend coming up. >> that last guy by the way is the one that compared the vaccine mandate to the nazi gas chambers. remember that. those warnings sounded really bad. but then the deadlines for the mandates came and went. and it never really happened the way they said it would. look at new york city just to take one example. "new york times" reports quote in the 129 tais from when the mane was announced and monday's deadline the vaccination rate shot up at many city agencies at the that the city's emergency medical services which operates ambulances, the vaccination rate jumped to 87% to to from 61. sanitation jumped 20 points to 8 fers from 62. the adult vaccination rate
across new york city is at 86%. that's a good boost in less than two weeks. provides though agencies basically in line with the overall vaccination rate of the city. in fact, across all the city agencies about 9,000 employees have been placed on unpaid leave. now, leave that may seem like a lot but keep in mind the city has over 370,000 people on payroll. the 9,000 people make up less than 2.5% of municipal employees. what about the police? fewer than three dozen uniformed officers out about 35,000 were placed on paid leave on monday when the deadline expired. less than three dozen. 34 new york cops put on leave out of 35,000. about 0.9%. this has been the case in city after city where police union bosses have threatened and all the force will walker out. it chaosen on streets. you know what happens. ? they don't. they get the vaccine. like in seattle washington where with where the police department warned that 27% of its officers
had not yet submitted vaccination records ahead of the deadline once the mandate was in place about 176 seattle police officers and firefighters combined were unable to report to work. the city boasted 99% of its roughly 11,000 employees were in compliance with the mandate by the deadline. that is how this appears to work every time once a mandate goes in place, guess what happens, an overwhelming majority of people actually get the shot. and those people left making all the noise about tyranny and refuseding to comply with are a tiny minority of holdouts on fox news hosts. the today the biden kmrgs announcinged updates on how they are making workplaces safe frere covid and all the people call that tyranny let's talk to one of the tyrants up next. don't go away. of the tyrants up next don't go away. d my sunscreen. you ready to go fishing? i got the bait. i also earn 5% on travel purchased through chase on this rental car. that lake is calling my name! don't you get seasick? we'll find out! come on.
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that all employers with more than 100 workers require them to be vaccinate or toasted for the vibrancy weekly which affects about 80 million americans. today the administration set january 4th as the deadline for that policy to be implemented as "the new york times" points out. in a separate measure that will affect 17 million more workers nursing homes and other health care facilities that receive medicare and medicaid funds, must ensure all employees are vaccinated by january 4th with no option for testing. it seems like a very good idea. sound policy, also a huge undertaking. secretary of labor marty walsh overseas the agency overseeing the rules and joins me now. secretary walsh wsh first describe how the federal government has the authority to do this for the employers with 100 or more workers. >> well, the law -- the law osha to put this law in place. the emergency standard. this is not done lightly.
lots of conversation lots of thought on it. i heard the previous segment and i heard folks concerned about being vaccinated. quite honestly -- you know you didn't ask me and we'll get into it. but what we want to do is provide a safe workplace for coworkers and people going to work. what this rules does, emergency temporary standard does is simple. it asks employers to have the employees vaccinated. and if their employees don't want to get vaxxed they are tested once a week and with when in work they wear a mask. >> there has been obviously some rebellion to this. and i think it is worth noting that there is this testing option which we can get into. but, you know, you're someone whose background is in the u.s. labor movement. and there are some who have tried to say this is anti-labor, an imposition from either the boss or the government on the worker's rights to bodily autonomy. >> i wouldn't call it
anti-worker. i think this is pro worker. pro making sure that workers have the opportunity to go into a workplace that's safe that they know is safe. they'll be able to look on a list to see not names of people but see how many people in the office are vaccinated and how many people are getting tested on a weekly basis. i think that as an employee, as a worker, you want to make sure that you come home safe to your family at night. and this is one of the ways we'll be able to ensure that workers get a chance to come home safe and not potentially be worrying about the virus at work. now, i can't speak to being in the grocery store walking down the street, what have you, but, again the workplace is important for us in the country to make sure that people have the tune to go to working work and feel safe there. >> the scope of in is enormous. i think it's 80 million workers estimated who will be covered by this. porvely there are a lot of employees kbeing more than 100 people in the country, they have a lot of workers. does the department of labor have the capacity to enforce
this, make sure this actually happens? >> yeah -- i mean, the department of labor and osha in particular has done work like this over 50 years. they have the capacity. for the next couple weeks we'll work with companies and getting the information. quite honestly i think a lot of the companies already with 10 oh or more employees have some type of vaccine programs. and a lot of times it's the mandate. this isn't a mandate. this is a vaccine or testing. and i think that that's something that a lot of the people who are anti-vaccine and saying they don't want it want you to take a deep breath and hear what i'm saying here because i think it's important to understand. it's about keeping people safe, including folks that don't want to get vaccinated to make sure that they are safe >> they would have to test once a week and wear a maverick indoors. it's a choice being offered. >> it is a choice. and, you know, a lot of people -- i mean we heard pushback from truckers today. and the ironic thing is most
truckers are not covered by this because they are driving a truck, in a cab, by themselves. they wouldn't be covered by this. people working outside. -- i heard some construction industries push back on this. a lot of construction is outside, again in an open environment, a lot different. so i would suggest that, you know, as we think about this moving forward, when the president announced this in september, you know, we were having high levels of delta variant at that particular moment. lots of people getting sick. people were dying. and they still are every day today in america. but he put this -- he recommended or ordered i guess whatever you want to call it, that myself and osha we come one a standard. we did. a lot of work went into it. a lot of thought went into it. and i feel that it's a good well thoughtout plan here and we're going to hopefully get some positive feedback. but more importantly some positive results from it. >> the governor of florida ron and a desantis sued the federal government over precisely this
policy as issued by the department of labor through the osha law. and has claimed the federal government has exceeded its authority. this is specifically on the federal contractors part of this, which is a different part of the -- of the policy. are you confident that all the different aspects of this policy, from health care workers, to employers over 100 to the federal contractors can pass judicial review. >> yeah, we feel confident about that. you know, like i said, it was a well-written standard. a lot of thought went into it. and i think it's important. i just want to say when this pandemic began, i spent a lot of time on msnbc on other stations as and as mayor of the city of boston. . and every afternoon i got in front of the camera and talking about you a the people that died and got covid-19 and we prayed. at that that number in the united states of america has gone over 750,000 americans have
lost their life to covid-19. 750,000 people have died. every single day people are getting infected with covid-19. we saw people on ventilators. this is about keeping people safe. this is about helping people. this is not about a political stand. and when i hear that, you know, i just kind of say to myself, i think i'm not elected official but back to my days at mayor. my responsibility was to keep people safe and healthy and businesses safe and open and thriving. that's my job as mayor. now my job is secretary of labor is make sure we protect american workers so they can go to work and feel safe and be safe. yobling we're overstepping our bounds there. there are options here for workers in this emerging standard. >> secretary of labor, marty walsh wsh former boston mayor thank you very much. >> thank you. coming up is the hot magma sitting under iceland, the ski to stemming climate change. the brand-new facility in iceland taking steps to help
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as world leaders gather in scotland to discuss solutions to the climate crisis, there's a rare encouraging bit of climate news. a working, fully operational carbon capture plant that just game online. right now it is sucking carbon dioxide out of the air and turning it into rock. the plant is in iceland and here's how it works. those great big things that look like giant air conditioners you might see on the roof of a building, those are the orca direct air capture devices. four units each with 12 large fans inside. they suck in the air and filter out the carbon dioxide. the co2 is heated up, mixed with water and pumped deep underground where over time it cools into stone. the whole plant is run by geothermal energy, which is key. and it can remove 4,000 tons of carbon dioxide from the air per
year by turning it into rock, which is great. but there is an enough cache. it equals just three seconds of the co2 emissions. we would need many, many, many more carbon capture plants like this to make a dent in carbon emissions but we need a solution to come online and deploy as soon as possible. author of "the uninhabitable earth, life after warming, david wallace-wells joins me now. i'm going to put this up again to highlight the catch here, which is we're talking about 3.8 seconds worth of global co2 emissions for this one plant. i don't want anyone to come away from this conversation going we've got it, we're solved. but that said, the future is
going to involve all kinds of ways to get carbon out of the air and there's something encouraging about seeing this thing that i've read about for a while up and operating. >> and it's not even being done at an insane price point. it's much more expensive than avoiding putting carbon in the air in the first place which means there are a lot of things we should be attacking by just decarbonizing. but it's close enough to an operational economic level that we can imagine a decade or 15 years from now with enough public support and public investment that we could start scaling it up and seeing it operate at a climatologically significant level. the scientists i speak to say that is possible. it won't solve the problem of fossil fuels. we need to get rid of them to start with. once we've gotten rid of them, this will clean up the residual emissions and maybe even on a century or century and a half
time scale to allow us to undo some of the damage that we've done to this point in inventing this climate crisis out of nothing. >> and for those screaming at the television set that there's already a technology that does this which is called trees, you are correct, that is also true. and there are other parts of the sort of carbon sequestering part of this, which is both soil and trees, which is another huge part of the portfolio of stuff that has to be done and deployed at scale. >> yeah, it's exactly as you said at the top. we need everything. we need a decarbonization program, that we have all electric vehicles on the roads very quickly. we need to rethink our agriculture production, our industry, our infrastructure. we need to do all that on the decarbonization side, the cutting emissions side. probably given where we are today, we're also going to have to take some carbon out of the atmosphere because it hangs in the air for centuries. even if we get to zero, the
planet will not get cooler, it will at best stay the same. if we want to bring ourselves back to the climate niche that gave rise to human life in the first place, we're going to have to actually remove quite a bit of carbon. that's hard to do and expensive to do right now. this plant is sort of a pilot plant. but if you imagine 50 or 75 years, 100 years down the road especially with a lot of public support, in theory we could do that. we could restore the climate, not just stabilize it. >> the c.o.p, the c.o.p. conference happening in glasgow, i know you've been covering it. they're hard to follow. if you think legislating with a democratic majority is complicated, try getting all of the world's countries to agree to stuff. but at the broadest level what do you see is the main thing to look for in this conference? >> the thing i'm most focused on
is the issue of the green climate fund, which is a money pot set up in paris in 2015 to allow the rich nations of the world who were responsible for the overwhelming majority of climate pollution and brought us to this climate point, set up by those countries to sort of unadaptation efforts in the developing nations. that was supposed to be $100 billion a year. that number has not been met. the developing nations of the world are screaming about that. they're screaming that we need to raise the level of philanthropy and support maybe as much as tenfold and i'd like to see that happen. i don't think it's very likely. i think the nations of the global north are looking away from the suffering that's happening in the global south but it's what i would like to see come out of this. a real reckoning with a moral debt the rich nations owe to the poor who have done the least to engineer this crisis and will be
suffering the most intense impacts in the decades ahead. >> you wrote a fantastic piece. you wrote growth has meant emissions and emissions have meant groet. the climate crisis is the result of that as is the wealth of nations. this connects to something else i find maddening but also promising in a weird way, which is the physics are unrelenting and unforgivable. they are what they are. the molecules are in the air. the economics are more malleable. there is money out there. we could spend a lot more money than we are spending on this. there's hopefully going to be a lot of money in this bill. in some ways there are limits on them for political reasons, but we could -- we do have the power to spend much more money on this than we are currently doing. >> i almost think it's a mistake to think of it in terms of spending money. 90% of the world now lives in places where clean energy is cheaper than dirty energy. which means it's not markets
that are slowing us, it's obstacles to markets that are slowing us. if we unleash the market power, we'd head toward a faster transition which almost every economist would tell you would bring us more prosperity and a more just, equitable prosperity as soon as a decade or so from now if we undertook it now. economists used to think it's a burden. it's really an opportunity, just not one we're letting ourselves undertake. i would connect back to the carbon removal. all of these obstacles, all of these human political obstacles, not market obstacles, they're the same ones standing in the way of a rapid rollout of renewables. if you're not happy with how fast we're rolling out wind and solar, chances are we're not going to be rolling out direct air capture either. we need to overcome those human obstacles not worry about economics or, you know, physics. >> technology, yeah. david wallace-wells, who i always learn from on this topic, thank you very much.
>> thanks for having me. before we go, a quick note about a very special episode we just released. i spoke to how climate change impacts our everyday lives. the great al roker is the guest on my latest podcast. i've been watching al my entire life. it was a genuine pleasure to talk to him about weather, climate, find out how he became the famous weatherman that he is. the episode is out now wherever you get your podcasts. that's "all in" on this thursday night. good evening, rachel. >> i'm going to listen to that. it's fantastic. thanks to you at home for joining us this fine thursday evening. thursday night, also known here as friday eve. yes, it's great to have you here. there's lots going on tonight. you'll recall exactly this time last night, this time on last night's show, nbc news had