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tv   Deadline White House  MSNBC  November 4, 2021 1:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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♪ ♪ ♪ i jump up on the stage ♪ ♪ and do my money dance ♪ ♪ i throw some money up ♪ ♪ and watch the money land ♪ ♪ i do my, i do my i do my money dance ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi - you could save with low rates and no fees. earn a $500 bonus when you refi... and get your money right. ♪ i do my money dance ♪ hey, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. today a bad sign for former president trump's attempt to block requested white house documents related to the january 6th insurrection. that could allow sweeping access to them for the house select committee investigating that day. the clock the ticking for trump with the documents set to go to be released to the committee next friday. it seems a federal judge will
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not intervene. the judge seemed not to buy his lawyer's argument that there was, quote, no legislative purpose to the request replying january 6th happened at the capitol, literally, congress's house. and are you really saying the president's notes talking points have no bearing on the investigation? as it tries to piece it all together the committee listens to more voices behind closed. liz cheney telling politico they have completed over 150 interviews with a whole range of people connected to the events, connected to understanding what happened. that just gives you a sense it is a range of engagement, some formal interviews, some depositions, there really is a large amount of work under way. john eastman, of whom we learned even more stunning details this week, what he was planning before, during, even after the
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violent attack. the "washington post" reported that a pence aide while in hiding in the capitol basement with the vice president was told pence's action was to blame for the violence under way. and this resurfaced audio from steve bannon's podcast four days before january 6th, eastman claiming pence's courage and spine could get in the way of their plans to overturn a fair election. >> are we to assume this is going to be a cli ma'am particular battle that's going the take place this week about the very question of the stgsality of the lock material act of 1877? >> i think a lot of that depends on the courage can the spine of the individuals involved. >> are you talking on the other side of the football? would you be be -- that would be a nice way to say a guy named vice president mike pence? >> yes. >> meanwhile, more proof this week that something needs to be done at the faultiness and deadly danger of the big lie, the heart of the capitol attack is only on the move across this
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country. the "washington post" reports at least seven people who attended the january th rally were elected to public office on tuesday. quote, none were charged with crimes, and all denied being part of the pro-trump mop that stormed the capitol. the big lie revealing its reach and potential almost ten months after january 6th. with its leader struggling to keep documents were that day secret. that's where we begin today, joining us, jonathan lemere, betsy woodruff swan, and harry litman. harry, i want to start with you. the federal judge today fought back on team trump's claims there was no legislative purpose really seems like she suffers no fools. what do we expect her to decide? then what happens next?
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>> that was big, alicia, because trump's papers have made that his number one argument especially as they have gone on because it is his big hope. once he loses that, his claims are weaker, still, because biden says i am not going to assert it. he has come out of the box saying no legislative purpose, congress can't do law enforcement. that's why incidentally when congress people come on your show they say we are doing this for a legislative reason, there may be a law down the line. what do i expect? she is focused on the time line. she gave a quick schedule. i expect her to rule quickly, by, say, tomorrow. then it goes up to the court of appeals if she denies trump's motion to sort of stop the music. i believe she will, though she has indicated she may narrow the subpoena a bit that could happen. then it's in the court of
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appeals. and will they also be conscious of the time line, move quickly? they haven't done it in the past. to the extent it is a delay game, the question will be, will the court of appeals play along with trump or not? >> betsy, we talked about what it means as the judge denies executive privilege claims for the former president. what does it mean though for someone like steve bannon who has cited trump's executive privilege claim as a reason for his own refusal to comply with the subpoena from the committee? >> if the judge holds that trump does not have the ability to assert executive privilege as it relates to this broad subpoena, then that would put more pressure on d.o.j. to bring charges against banno because of course the reason he's defying this congressional subpoena is because of an argument about executive privilege that is even more tenuous and fragile than the argument that's currently being litigated in a parallel
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way. d.o.j. of course is in a completed spot here. the justice department doesn't like getting mixed up in things that are as politically charged as this matter. but if this judge comes out and satisfies that trump does not have the ability to assert executive privilege and that congress does have the right to demand these documents so that the legislative branch can do its job, then that just makes it all the more difficult for d.o.j. to not bring charges against bannon. >> harry, there was also reporting in the "washington post" yesterday showing a whole other reason trump doesn't qualify for executive privilege. the post reports, more than $225,000 in campaign payments to firms owned by karrick and giuliani, including more than $50,000 for rooms and suites at the posh willard hotel in washington had served as a command service for efforts to denied by ten presidency in the attacks leading up to the attack on the capitol on january 6th. how could this personal matter
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argument, how could that further hinder trump's fight to block this evidence? >> we are talking about 800 pages or so total. this is a discrete set. forget about executive privilege. at a minimum executive privilege is to aid presidential decision making for possession duties. he's not even in the room. not to mention it is a command center for a possible campaign. there is no way this stays shields. the only question here for these and other records is can he string it along. he had wanted -- his main strategy is delay. he said, you must look at every piece of evidence one by one to judge. the judge said, are you kidding me? that could take years. she totally rebuffed that. that means she will rule on it as a chunk and maybe narrow, as i said before, a little chunk of it.
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basically, the game here is speed versus delay. and she, at least, is very much on the side of speed. >> yeah. and anyone who has done doc review knows that was fundamentally not feasible. >>ert that you have been in the trenches. >> you can tell i spent years as a paralegal. betsy, you have politico reporting on another federal judge also helping uncover information that could dramatically reshape the public's understanding of what happened at the capitol. a 2010 obama appointee has implicitly encouraged january 6th defendants to cooperate with congressional investigators. she has pressed for the public release of surveillance footage closely held by the u.s. capitol police as well as other videos relied upon by prosecutors. betsy, what is the news from cheney about more interviews,
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this how howl's work uncovering for the committee and the big lie's leverage? >> look, it just highlights the extent to which the select committee is getting information, not just from people adjacent and with visibility into the attack on the capitol, but actually from people who participated in the violence that day. the fact that the committee has already spoken to 150 people thus far in their investigation is a big deal. we know some of those people who they have engaged with are attackers themselves, people who engaged in the violence, people who have taken guilty pleas and who are now trying to seem some sort of leniency by showing they are cooperating with the investigators trying get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th. we should assume that that type of information coming from these attackers is something that investigators on capitol hill are going to take very seriously if and when they row lease a report, which we expect to ultimately be a product of this
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probe. i would expect to see a significant amount of detail from attackers who were part of the assault on capitol speaking about why they did what they did. and the biggest question i think is front of mine for anyone who follows is to what extent did the attackers engaged in that day engage in violence because that's what they thought the president wanted them to do. we know many of them are going to answer that question with a yes. that's a key piece of making sense of the horror of the 6th. >> another big question we keep asking is today the day eastman's subpoena drops. we learned even more this week about eastman. in an unpublished op ed drafted by a top pence aide who got an email from eastman while he and the vice president were hiding at the capitol. because you and your boss did
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not do what was necessary to allow this to be aired in a public way, you allowed this to happen. east man sent the email as pence, who had been presiding over the senate was hiding in a secure area. any news when eastman will be subpoenaed by this committee? >> we expect it could come in a matter of days or weeks. but there is no set time line yet. it is expected sooner than later. you are right. this is another moment -- this email was set when images of what was happening a the capitol were being broadcast to tvs across the nation and the world. rioters the broken the perimeter of the capitol, they had started overrunning the premises, bashing capitol police officers with american flags, escalating the violence, particular kicking them when they were down, using their own tasers on them.
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extraordinary displace. while this is happening we have this scene of indifference from donald trump and his inner circle. the president himself ignoring what was going on. mccarthy, the gop leader pleading with him to get on twitter and call them off. he wouldn't do that. mccarthy said well they clearly care more about the election than you do. and eastman attacking the vice president in an email suggesting he was in some ways response because he wouldn't do what he was told to by the president to try to not allow the certification of yebd's victory. of course we heard from vice president pence who, you know, at the last minute, did the right thing. he acknowledged that he, and reporting from robert costa and bob woodward's book, looked every place to see if there was another way. he realized he couldn't do it.
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certainly, this is going to increase the scrutiny on eastman even further and only increase how investigators want to talk to him. >> the scrutiny, and then the legal consequences. what's the legal jeopardy here for him? >> i don't see eastman -- i know there are a lot of people who would like to string him up over the washington monument. i think he has consequences as a lawyer. he has reputational consequences. to follow up onion than and betsy's point, all of these interviews change the type mick for guys like eastman who want to have some sort of future. if he tries to completely stiff-arm them, a lot of people are going to be there to dis on him and tell -- not incriminating but critical stories. same thing with bannon. same thing with other lawyers who have done it. that changes with him. if he tries to really resist, that means a story gets told
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that's really critical, that doesn't -- that he's not able to rebut. he has already been fired from a job for this. that's i think the biggest thing he's looking at. that and there has been a complaint sent to the bar from a very prominent group of california and national lawyers. he's looking at that as well. i can't see actually being charged. you could try to portray this as a conspiracy for an insurrection. what it really is a lawyer being completely irresponsible and being slavish because he loved being close to authority and telling trump what he wanted to hear. that's a real sin for a lawyer. not pin stipes, though. >> jonathan, as we talk about accountability in all of this moving forward, we are still living through and seeing the aftermaths of what happened on january 6th. so in addition to those rally-goers getting elected this week, fulton county's chief election official rick barren is resigning from georgia public
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broadcasting. fulton has also been the epicenter of the conspiracy theories lawsuits and false claims. since the november 2020 election, we have participated in multiple reviews, audits and litigation all of which failed the identify wrongdoing or mall feesance. barren's resignation letter says we are ready to continue to work. what does it say about the reach of the big lie, the urgency of halting it? >> the big lie is far from finished, alicia. this is -- the big lie is going to shape both next year's midterm elections, but also the 2024 presidential contest whether or not donald trump on the ballot. it has become almost a litmus test among conservatives. do you believe joe biden was legitimately elected? so many republicans believe the answer is no. even if they believe it in their
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heart they won't say it for fear of alienating trump. and this is the best way to fire up their supporters to turn out next time around, to undermine integrity of elections. we have already seen movements under foot at the state legislative level. we have seen secretaries of state run in a number of battlegrounds where they would have the final say over the certification of the vote of electors in that state in 2024. there are efforts to undermine the sanctity of the american ballot. liberals and progressive activists are angry of course at republicans who won't even let the voting rights act come up for a vote. and also at democrats, too, saying you are not doing enough, saying this is an existential threat not just to your party but to the democrat express and you need to be doing more and
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the president needs to lean in on this. if it means doing away with the filibuster, so be it. we heard from the naacp knocking courts and democrats saying all elected officials need to be doing more to protect the ballot. >> it is as though you teased our next segment for me. thank you betsy, harry. when we come back, again, federal voting rights legislation stuck in the senate. what will it take for democrats to drop the filibuster and pass urgently needed legislation that protection democracy? we will ask senator hi ropo where democrats are a at this hour. the president taking a lesson from tuesday night ahead. after tuesday, how has pressure shifted? our political panel weighs in. and vaccines for kids are here. so is the disinformation. we will debunk some of the myths
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for parents trying to do what is right for their kids and block out the noise. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. ouse" continues after this ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need to unveil them to the world. ♪ as a dj, i know all about customization. that's why i love liberty mutual. to unveil them to the world. they customize my car insurance, so i only pay for what i need. how about a throwback? ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪
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the fight is far from over. democrats will explore alternative plans to restore the senate so it does what fraemers intended, debate, deliberate, compromise and vote. just because republicans won't join us to defend our democracy doesn't mean democrats will stop fighting. it is too important. even if it means going at it alone we will continue to fight for voting rights. >> senate majority leader chuck schumer this morning calling out
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senate republicans after they voted to block even a debate on the john lewis voting rights act. this is the third piece of voting rights legislation that democrats introduced this year, all of them failing to gain any traction. only one republican, senator lisa murkowski of alaska voting in support of yesterday's bill. after the vote, one democratic, tom carper of delaware calling for apolishing the filibuster writing, quote, i do not come to this decision lightly but it has become here to me that if the phil buster is standing in the way of protecting our democracy then the phil buster suspect working for our democracy. no barrier, not even the phil buster should stand in the way of our sacred obligation the protect our democracy. joining us now, senator high rhona. >> nice to be you. >> is there any appetite among senate republicans beyond murkowski for even a narrow
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compromise bill? >> apparently not because they are hand in glove with all of these legislatures all across the country, busy considering it and enacting laws that would make it much harder for people to vote. so they will not vote for this kind of voter protection legislation that we democrats are pushing for. >> senator, i ask that question to tee us up for the next question, which is, if you take republicans off the table, if they are simply not going to be partners in this, did this vote, the third of these votes, the continued pattern of republicans refusing to come on board for this -- wee it changed senator carper's mind on filibuster reform. has it changed any of your other colleagues' thinking on how to move forward? >> oh, it is going to be very important for other democrats to change their minds. so we also recently had angus king would came forward and said if he had to choose between protecting our democracy and people's votes and maintaining the phil buster, he would choose
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democracy and votes. so other democrats have to make that change of mind decision. i am hopeful that happens? i am glad you brought up senator king. when we read about senator schumer meeting with your colleagues like senators, king, cain, tester, about family discussions within the caucus to find a path forward on voting rights legislation, your sense what have the sticking points are now in those conversations? >> well, when some of my colleagues consider the phil buster to be protective of democracy, that makes it harder for them to come to the decision that it actually harms democracy and come to the same conclusions that angus king and tom carper came to. so they are going to need to travel that road and come to the conclusions that my two colleagues did. >> senator hirono, there are a
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lot of story lines obviously coming out of tuesday's election. it would be possible to miss this one. that's that this year's turnout is higher than any other gubernatorial election in virginia since at least 1997, democratic governor ralph northam signed legislation into law in april 2020 that allowed registered virginia voters to request absentee ballots without reason and vote 45 days prior to an election day. opening up the vote. i understand in their eyes, in the eyes of republicans, this question about voting is about who is driving that turnout, who are the voters showing up at those polls. i have to wonder, when you look at the high turnout and you look at the fact that the republican candidate benefitted from that high turnout, is there an argument that their continued efforts at voter suppression don't just hurt democrats, don't just hurt democracy, but could also hurt republicans? >> well, of course.
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and that is why it's for everybody's benefit that we enact these voter protection laws, to be sure that we have a fair voting playing field and that is not what's happening all across the country. and it's just so critical that we enact these bills that we have been pushing for. and we are going to continue to do that. because voting is a sacred right. for all of these governors and the state legislatures to consider legislation, that makes it -- it's just incredible, alicia, that they are making shorter voting times, fewer voting places, harder to get the ballots, all of those restrictions are happening to make it really hard to vote. and that is not democracy. and that's why it's so important for to us continue to push as democrats. republicans no incentive to do that. >> well, to that point, i'm sure you saw this out of florida, the dance that governor ron de
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santis is doing to try to deny his own party's calls for an audit by instead creating voting laws to solve a problem that does not exist according to the miami herald. six months after signing what he called the strongest election security bill in the nation, governor ron de santis on wednesday said he wanted to beef up the state's voting laws. the announcement comes as de santis faces mounting pressure of supporters of former president donald trump to conduct an audit of the 2020 election. trump won florida by a landslide by the state's standards. groups have been knocking on doors collecting what they claim is evidence of fraud. they put it on a billboard in tallahassee calling on de santis to conduct an audit. on sunday, former president trump confidant roger stone threatened unless florida conducted an audit. i bring this up, senator, because they are not going to
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stop this nonsense. >> nope. >> what then, are the stakes if democrats go into next year without having passed voting rights legislation. >> the stakes are that the republicans are going to rig the elections going forward. that's what's at stake. that is it. very simply put, alicia. they are rigging the election so that -- they are making it harder and harder for people to vote. and these will not be fair elections. that's what they want. they are rigging the system so that they can retain power. >> flad to that, do you think there is a little consequence for democrats directly if they don't get this done? >> of course. because, you know what, if the republicans regain control of the house and the senate -- my gosh, do you know the last time they had control? what did they do? they passed huge tax breaks, $1.5 trillion in tax breaks for the richest people in our country. they are not lifting a finger to help the people in our country get back to work. they did not lift a finger for
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the rescue plan that put hundreds of millions of dollars to reopen schools for example. or that enable families to get money for child care. all of that. they have no interest in doing anything. and that's what's at stake when republicans regain control. they are not interested in helping the american people. >> i want to ask you, before i let you go, senator, paid family leave is an important issue, important the me, important to our audience. it has been in. it has been out. do you think it is ultimately going to be in the final bill? >> it remains to be seen. my hope is that there still be some open minds on the part of the senators to support paid family leave. money for child chair is going to be in the bill. that's important. and continuing to provide support, up to $300 per child. that's going to help families get back to work. not the mention universal preschool. these are really important
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aspects of the bill we are considering. >> thank you. >> aloha. lots of lessons to be learned from the losses democrats saw on tuesday night. from a stalled agenda, to the big lie, to race. we will look at where democrats should focus, next. s should focus, next hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ why give your family just ordinary eggs when they can enjoy the best? eggland's best. the only eggs with more fresh and delicious taste. plus, superior nutrition.
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tuesday was obviously a shock to the system for democrats, especially for those in congress. perhaps as a result, new urgency
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today in the effort to enact president biden's build back better plan. house speaker nancy pelosi has been publicly coy on timing, a source confirmed to nbc news she has told her caucus this morning she is hopeful to move forward on the president's two-track agenda with votes potentially in the next 24 hours. pelosi was asked by garrett haake about tuesday's election losses. >> what effect do you think having not passed these bills had on tuesday's election results? >> i don't -- let me say it in a different way. i think that getting the job done, producing results for the american people is always very positive. >> do you think democrats were penalized for having not gotten these things done. there is no question, the more results we can produce in a way that people understand their lives, the better it is. >> joining us now, officer nanomondi, and eugene daniels.
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both are msnbc contributors. hello guys. when you talk with congressional democrats in the past 48 hours or so what is your sense of how tuesday's results played into their thinking when it comes to these negotiations? >> first it depends on who you are talking to. if you are talking to a progressive they are saying the issue here is that he had a moderate candidate who they perceive as boring and that didn't get people excited. if you speak to a moderate, they say it is because the party has gone too far left some of the moderates say, and that people are worried about that. i think what we can take from both of those is that the party still haven't figured that out. they haven't figured out why tuesday happened. there are a lot offish fuse in the races in new jersey and also in virginia. moving forward, what i keep
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hearing, what they are saying to us is that the importance of passing legislation in congress now, like the speaker was just saying, is going to impact how people think of congress and democrats for 2022. it is one thing for a gubernatorial race and it is hard to figure out how much of a grade they would have received had they passed this bill. we can't prove a negative. but if they don't do something in the rollout of these bills, the infrastructure bill, this family care bill, if that doesn't go well, there is going to be issues. that's something they are talking about. but they do have a sense of urgency because they know they are running out of time because by the time we get to january, february, there is not going to be a lot of legislation passed at that point. >> i think eugene gets it right there. the results are open to interpretations and when you listen to them they most low affirmed people's world views prior to tuesday.
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everybody using this as proof of concept. listen to senator joe manchin. >> we can't go too far left. this is not center left or a left country. we are if anything, a center right country. that's being shown. we ought to be able to recognize that. >> now officer demand, i know you were a pollster by trade and training. i know exit polls probably want to make you roll your eyes so hard that you worry they might stay like that forever but this notion the party being called to the left would seem to me to be an oversimplification of what drove the electorate that we saw in these two states? >> well, if you listen to president manchin tell the story, that's what happened. but i think the next couple of weeks are really going to be indicative because being the good catholic that he is, for president biden, we are going to find out if this past tuesday's results lead to a near-death experience/recovery for the democrats or the last rites for the democratic majority
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controlling congress. i think it does come down to getting these bills passed to prove that the biden promise of the 2020 campaign, which is that he was competent, he was in charge, he was going to be able to get things done on behalf of the american people, is a promise he can keep. the other thing, looking into the data a little bit from tuesday, particularly in virginia that i think is of real concern, what's driving speaker pelosi and i think the president to act here is you saw a lot of voters come out of the exit polls that voted for youngkin. they were biden voters. that's eating into biden's support with biden voters. he has to turn that an gram. he also can't afford the wait to roll this out around thanksgiving because it is going to get swallowed whole by the holiday. time is of the essence. >> the three of us have talked many times about the asymmetric
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playing field the democrats are on, the big lie, racist dog whistles or bull horns, this is from the "new york times." quote, race has infused american history and politics since our founding. it threads through most aspects of daily life and stirs up complicatesed feelings that americans of all backgrounds find difficult to discuss. but virginia shows race is impossible to ignore. the simple fact is republicans have long used race to achieve victory and democrats are fooling themselves if they think they can avoid it. democrats have to get real about race and forming a way to win. eugene, is there any lesson learned bigger than that one? >> no. i think that they are right. also something that's really really important for democrats to focus on and think about is how to thread the needle with talking about and saying critical race theory is not being taught in schools. it is a dog whistle for blank.
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and also talking about the issues that people really care about. when you talk to democrats especially when they are looking back at the mcauliffe campaign, we look at him spending a lot of time trying to tie youngkin to trump, right? that didn't seem to work. he talked about a lot of different issues. he talked about critical race theory and how it is not being taught in schools. but he didn't do a good job of selling it to people and what he would be doing as governor. it surprises people because he was essentially an incumbent, having been an governor before. so there is a lot of things that the democratic party has to figure out. but they have to thread the theelds between talking about race and being real about it and talking about january 6th, and making sure things like that never happen the our democracy. voting rights bills. and also talk about the kitchen table issues.
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it is hard. it is difficult because you have a home audio genus party within the republicans where they don't have all of these different discussions about these things. and that is why the democratic party, along with the history of mid terms, have their hands full. >> officernd in a, i saw you nodding. i am going to let you have the last word? >> i will just give the amen to what eugene said. look, here's the deal. the democrats have got to stop running on what's right and start running on what's going to help them win. the best way to treat the issue of rates is for democrats to stay in power, to keep control of the government so they can issue laws that protect against this white supremacist strain we continually see happening in the republican party. but it is a high wire act. you can easily fall over. if you make that the centerpiece of the campaign you get away from what the focus, it's about winning, do what it toiks to
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rinne. >> thank you both for ginning us. after the break, just one day vaccines were made available for kids aged 5-11, disinformation already beginning to swirl. it is feeding to parents' vaccine hesitancy. how to separate the fact from the fiction. that's next. ction. that's next. (vo) this is more than just a building. it's billion-dollar views. perfectly located. an inspiration. and enough space to start an empire. loopnet. the most popular place to find a space.
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split. roughly a third saying they definitely will get their children vaccinated. a third saying they will wait and see. and the final third say they will definitely not get their children vaccinated. that's according to polling from the kaiser family foundation. why is there still so much hesitation surrounding the vaccine in children? our friend dr. patel says the agreeing swell of disinformation surrounding the vaccine in children is only growing with the approval by the fda, dr. patel writing for lays out five myths about the covid vaccine in children. let's bring her in. a former obama white house health policy director. always good to see you. let's talk through the five myths. this vaccine was rushed therefore millions of young children are about to become lab experiments. the vaccine is more dangerous than covid-19 itself.
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if your child had covid-19 they don't need the vaccine. the rate of serious side effects from the vaccine are underreported. the vaccine will change children's dna. again, all of those myths, driven by disinformation. of those five, is there one that alarms you most? >> honestly, all five alarm me. the one that alarms me the most is implying that somehow we are conducting experiments on our children because it doesn't acknowledge the reverence for which we have had to try to understand the safety and truly people have always accused kind of having these vaccines arrive within a year has been quote, unquote, rushed. but they have also not acknowledged the decades of research for messenger rna and how it has been used in other vaccine. it has never come to this level because we have never had a pandemic at this level. that's probably one of the most insulting. it makes it seem that any parent who vaccinates their children is
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condoning an experiment and not caring about their children's health. >> when i have this conversation with other parents, as you can imagine this happens a lot. the only thing i say, i spoke with my pediatrician and i recommend you speak with yours because we know that primary care providers are some of the best mess i thinkers. i want to look at the polling. it basically splits in three evenly. 27% saying they want to do it right away, 33% want to wait and see. 33% saying they are definitely not going to do it. what's your message to the americans persons who are either on the fence or against this? >> talk to others -- you are showing, right now, as we speak their millions of children either getting vaccinated today or have appointments over the next seven days. talk to someone who is choosing to vaccinate their child. then, as you mentioned, talk to a health professional. many pediatric offices are still
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awaiting getting their vaccines to roll out. then they all will participate in the rollout of this vaccine. until then they are ready to talk boy phone, zoom, in person. but they are also dealing with children who are sick for other reasons including covid-19. so you may just need to be a little patient. i think the second thing that i want to tell parents is that this really is our best way to protect our children. nine vaccinated children will lead to preventing one case of covid-19. think about that n a classroom of 30 children, we will get three cases we can avoid just in that classroom alone. these are the statistics, and trying to give people facts. en imagine soon we might be able to take away the masks in our classrooms if everyone is vaccinated. working moms might be able to keep kids in day care without the threat of qupt which millions of students have had to deal with over the last several months and getting all of our lives back to normal in time for
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the holidays. i think showing people the advantages as well as the downside of not getting vaccinated. kids today are being diagnosed with covid-19 and people are being hospitalizedly and sadly there are delts. not as many as adults but children are dying at the end of "mean girls," regina george walks around with photo copies of the burn book and starts throwing them around, i'm going to be doing that with your article tonight. dr. kavita patel, as always, thank you. for those parents who are allowing their kids the get the vaccine, where are they going? we're going to check in one of the more unique vaccination sites here in new york city. that's next. ination sites here in new york city. that'sex nt. ♪ ♪ there are beautiful ideas that remain in the dark. but with our new multi-cloud experience, you have the flexibility you need
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new york, like many other cities across the country, marking a major milestone in the fight against covid. thousands of young children aged 5 to 11 are lining up to receive their first dose of the pfizer vaccine. from doctors' offices to schools, there is no slowing down the unprecedented rollout for the vaccine's youngest recipients so far. let's turn now to nbc news correspondent allison barber at one of the city's largest vaccination sites. >> reporter: if you have to get a shot, you might as well do it somewhere cool. the american museum of natural history is one of many vaccination sites in new york city, now offering shots for 5 to 11-year-olds. for some parents, this is a
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moment that absolutely could not come soon enough. for others, they're still unsure. listen. >> we feel really confident. we think that the risks of them getting covid and also continuing to have their childhood disrupted far outweigh the risks of the vaccine. >> reporter: what are you most excited to do when you're vaccinated? >> go to lego land. >> the symptoms and, like, you know, the soreness of the arms and stuff like that, i don't know how it would affect my child, so i feel like maybe, like, as she gets a little older, we can kind of think about maybe 12, 13, of her getting vaccinated. but not at, like, 5, 6, 7. >> reporter: nationwide, parents are still pretty split on this. polls suggest about a third of parents say they're going to take a wait and see approach. in new york city, starting next week, public schools will open vaccination sites and children who are eligible can get
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vaccinated at school with parental consent. in new york city, the mayor also says they're going to be offering cash incentives from now on, and if you're a parent here and you take your child to a city-run vaccination site, and they're in that 5 to 11 range, you can get $100 once they're vaccinated. alicia? >> allison barber inside new york's museum of natural history. thank you. the next hour of "deadline white house" with my friend, dr. jason johnson, starts right after this quick break. n johnso after this quick break growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort.
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an abortion ban in texas creates a ripple effect of injustice, impacting all of us. as a physician, i know firsthand that abortion saves lives. for the thousands of people i've cared for, abortion is a blessing. abortion is an act of love. abortion is freedom. i want to end by imploring this committee to help our communities right now. we need federal protection of abortion care. and most of all, we need you to not forget about us. >> hi, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. i'm jason johnson in for nicole wallace. an emotional hearing on capitol hill today as doctors and reproductive rights advocates testified to the real-world impact of texas abortion law. that bans abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, a time when many women don't even know they're pregnant. the hearing covered the extraordinary lengths that texas law has forced women to go through as their constitutional right to choose is under attack. one witness from the berkeley school of law pointed out the law's unequal impact on women of
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color. >> for the poorest people in texas, these burdens are insurmountable. crucially, because there's a close relationship between socioeconomic status and race, with black people disproportionately living in poverty, burdens to poor people constitute burdens to black people. the result is that disproportionate numbers of black people will be among those who are coerced to continue pregnancies and have children against their will, to seek unsafe methods of abortion, or to risk exposure to criminal prosecution for attempting to self-manage abortion. >> today's hearing comes just days after the supreme court heard arguments in two cases challenging texas's bill. on monday, the court signalled it may allow federal challenges to the law to proceed as some conservative judges question the legality of the law's enforcement mechanism where private citizens are deputized to sue individuals assisting a woman to get an abortion. but the case that could
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ultimately overturn a woman's right to choose in this country is one the high court will hear in just under a month. december 1st, the supreme court will hear arguments on the legality of a mississippi law that bans abortions after 15 weeks, taking direct aim at the decision in roe vs. wade, which says women can have an abortion up to the point of viability, which is around 24 months. meanwhile, at least six states have either introduced or expressed interest in copycat versions of texas's strict abortion law and this week, one was introduced that goes even further than the texas law, which is really saying something. reporting on a bill just introduced by ohio lawmakers of a ban all abortions in the state. quote, house bill 480 cosponsored by more than half of ohio house republicans, would ban all abortions in ohio, like the texas law currently being considered by the u.s. supreme court, house bill 480 would also allow any person to file civil
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lawsuits seeking $10,000 or more against anyone in ohio who performs abortions or who, quote, knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets the performance or inducement of an abortion, including paying for it via insurance. one of the legislation's cosponsors, 26-year-old republican state representative thomas hall, said in a statement that he and powell, the bill's other cosponsor, were the two youngest members of the ohio house, are part of a generation that will end abortion in ohio and across america. the battle over women's reproductive rights heating up is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. congresswoman sheila jackson lee of texas is here. she's judiciary committee as well as vice chair of the congressional progressive caucus. also with us, fatima goss graves, president and ceo of the national women's law center and errin haines, editor of the
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19th. i can't think of a better panel for this. congresswoman, i just have to ask, up front, when you talk to your constituents, what are they saying about this texas law? what are they saying has changed in their lives and is it depressing people or galvanizing them against the oppressive policies they're seeing out of the governor? >> first of all, i'm delighted to be with these wonderful co-presenters and as well delighted to be with you. they are egregiously engaged and activated but they are engreejsly depressed, certainly for those young women and others who have to face the trauma of being rejected by their ob/gyn, not wanting to be rejected but because of this egregiously unconstitutional law. you know, it has been reported that 33% of the maternal mortality deaths will come about in african-american women. 15% overall.
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so, they face death if they are, in essence, forbidden from getting good quality healthcare to assist in them expressing their constitutional right of making a choice about abortion. i asked my first question to one of the witnesses. i said, is any law in place now that forces a woman to get abortion? absolutely not. it is one of choice with your faith leader, your doctor, and your choice. it is also one of necessity. if you've been raped or if you have been attacked through incest and the texas law sb8 is ludicrous in it has no exceptions for rape and/or incest, and so there is a depression in terms of those who face the crisis of abortion but there's an activism and a fight for those who are going to stand for those women. >> congresswoman, i want to stay with you for a minute. i want to play you some sound of a question that you were asking of someone during hearings about this issue and get your thoughts on the other side. >> i don't have to imagine what
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it's like to have violent people stalking me, because that is actually my life every single day as an abortion provider in texas. i am followed into my job. i am screamed at. my child is screamed at by people that purport to love children. i get hate messages and death threats to my home simply for caring for my community. so it's very disturbing for me, personally, to hear people proclaim to be pro-life while they actively threaten my life and my child's life. >> congresswoman, you know, we have been hearing about regular public servants, whether at voting places or school boards, abortion doctors, being threatened and having violence presented against them. when you heard this kind of testimony, you know, what did it inspire amongst your fellow members of congress? did it make them want to call the supreme court, call the administration, call merrick garland to get more aggressive about this because you literally have people on the ground saying, i'm being threatened
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every day by fanatics for simply doing my currently legal job. >> what we first of all want to do is to have the supreme court act in a judiciary manner as opposed to a partisan, political manner which was evidenced by the initial decision where they refused to take the case, sb8, from the providers. that was a shadowy position if there was ever one. but now i think it is important that it urgently moves forward but the members of the united states congress have to act as well. this woman and others, this doctor and others, and those who are thinking or believing that they are pregnant, are under a violent threat, a threat that may equal to january 6th, and we have to act. i've introduced hr-5710. it's been introduced in the senate. this is like the fugitive slave law. we have not had a stalking law that gives you a dollar sign over the heads of innocent women and the violence that may come about of someone stalking is going to cause death. it's going to cause death
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because women are fleeing to other states. women of color cannot afford to do so in many instances so their death rate, it's suggested that it was going up because of the lack of ability for healthcare, but the idea of a fugitive slave law and a bounty is egregious and threatening and that's what that doctor was saying. every day she's under threat. so my position is this. one, the congress has to act. you criminalize and stop the stalkers in their tracks. and as well, the supreme court has to stop hiding behind standing. i hope their decision will ultimately come that the case can go forward in the lower court that the mississippi case is patently unconstitutional under roe v. wade but also under the constitution -- unconstitutional under the ninth amendment, which i read in the hearing today. you cannot interfere with rights that are not given to the government. and that means that the ninth amendment is constitutional. your rights are constitutional. your right to privacy. they are wrong. and we're going to fight this. we're going to fight this with
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every breath we have. the reason is because it permeates everything that one can think of and women are vulnerable, women of color are vulnerable and we're not going to stand for it. >> with that in mind, congresswoman, fatima, there is a story two weeks ago, in the "dallas morning news," talking about the dozens upon dozens of cases that we know about of women as young as 12 who have been impregnated through incest, through pedophiles, through various forms of rape, who cannot get abortions in the state of texas anymore. are these cases getting a lot of attention? i mean, usually, the claim by the hard right s like, well, you know, we want to get rid of abortion except in cases of rape and incest. you've got these cases of rape and incest and childhood assault and they're still not doing anything about it. >> you know, what's interesting about this situation is you don't have a lot of people lifting up the reality on the ground for women, for, unfortunately, for children, for
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people who need access to abortion care in the state of texas. these stories are heartbreaking. it's heartbreaking whether or not you've been a victim of sexual violence and incest. it's heartbreaking for people who are struggling to scrape together resources to leave the state. it's heartbreaking for people who are already parents who are trying to find child care or get time off to be able to access their constitutionally protected healthcare. the supreme court has added to what is now a constitutional crisis and a public health crisis by not granting a stay, and that's what we hope will happen in the texas case, even if you put aside what's going to happen in the mississippi case. >> errin, in the 19th, you guys have pointed out, i want to get the number correct here, 106 restrictions on abortions have become law this year, and basically, what you have is a bunch of right-wing members of
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state legislatures doing sort of the maga copying thing from state to state to state. when these new laws are being passed, do they pass these laws because they think they're going to hold up or is some of it virtue signaling to their base and they want to make sure they're at the cutting edge of pressing women as opposed to passing a policy that will stand? >> i think what you're seeing is the similar effort that you have seen in terms of the voter suppression bills that have been moving across this country in the absence of federal intervention, states are not waiting. states are acting. and so, you know, with the texas law going into effect because the supreme court did not intervene in stopping that law from taking effect on september 1st as it did, states saw that. and took a cue from that, and are moving forward. the supreme court is going to consider the issue of whether or not pregnant people have a right to abortion access next month,
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but in terms of when that decision is going to come, that's not going to be something that's immediate. and so, in the meantime, because we already see in texas, in the two months that the texas law has been in effect, be abortions are reportedly down 50% already, so you know, the logic for states that want to do this, what's the point in waiting when you can go ahead, try to pass these laws now, see what kind of impact you can have in the meantime, and ask for -- and see what the courts are going to do in terms of permission on the back end? that is really what's going on here. but jason, if i can just point out, really, it is, you know, what feels different in this moment is -- and we've been chronicling this at the 19th, the women who are really empowering themselves by telling their own stories around abortion in this moment. to talk about the impact and not just, you know, pregnant people but also the people who are
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providing abortions, a lot of them, women, talking about why they're doing that, talking about the impact, not only on their services but also to them personally, as we heard that doctor testifying in that house judiciary committee hearing this morning. focusing on the impact of the law and building a record is important and while all eyes really are on the supreme court, i think that you do have the reality on the ground that is happening far beyond washington. >> going back to washington, congresswoman, i got to ask you this. let's just jump in the future. you know, this current supreme court is basically famous for throwing rocks and hiding their hands. let's say they overturn roe vs. wade. they'll never admit to it but let's say they for all practical purposes overturn roe vs. wade in this upcoming mississippi case. what is the immediate impact across the united states of
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america after that ruling? is it a slow rollout? is it marching in the streets? is it, you know, giant banners being drawn across all abortion clinics, you got to leave, you got to go? what is the impact if roe vs. wade gets overturned before the end of this year? >> i think that is a dangerous proposition because women are -- don't have tendencies of violence, but what women do have is a conviction, and women will be in the streets, and they will demand their government to act. they will demand the executive to act, the legislature to act, and we will have to act. we will not have time to have a prolonged process of hearings and writing bills. we will have to immediately overturn by, again, reenacting roe v. wade and ensuring the protection of all women and their constitutional rights, similar to the protection of voting rights, but we will have to act immediately. this will not be taken lightly
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or quietly, because it is a condition that will warrant or generate into the loss of life. it will be the loss of life and women trying to abort themselves as they did 20, 30 years ago, 50 years ago, and it will be a circumstance where many will lose their lives. >> fatima, we just saw this week, this week, the supreme court under the pressure of sort of republicans across the country, is trying to make abortion illegal, and yet we saw large swaths of white women in virginia vote for the republican party. is abortion as a political issue to galvanize voters, is it no longer a thing? because the polling shows that many of these women still support abortion rights but voted for pro-life candidates and a party that is engaged in a long-term process of making abortion illegal. >> you know, many people, and i will include this in myself, you grew up in a generation where
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you thought that right was secure, and what we have learned this year is that it is not, and so i think you're going to see an awakening in virginia. access to abortion care wasn't really on the ballot. it wasn't a real feature. youngkin wasn't talking about his plan to enact sb8 so it wasn't the middle of that conversation but for sure it will be in the center of the conversation for '22, and i think the question people are going to be asking is, whose side are you on? whose side are you on when the supreme court banned abortion? whose side were you on when the 24 states that have what we call trigger laws that basically say if roe falls, we will ban abortion in our state, where were you to fight for us? and i think the congresswoman is absolutely right. we need congress to act, actually, no matter the outcome of the mississippi case, to
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ensure that we are not in this situation again and again. >> congresswoman sheila jackson lee, fatima goss graves ander errin haines, thank you so much. the direct link between the country's fast-growing racial diversity and the republican backlash against critical race theory that became the rallying cry for virginia republicans. that's next. plus, hate on trial in charlottesville. the case against the organizers of that deadly 2017 neo-nazi rally is moving forward. despite attempts by those organizers to use the trial as a bizarre forum to show off their fandom of the third reich. and nfl superstar quarterback aaron rodgers out with covid after misleading the green bay packers and everybody else that he had been vaccinated. what's the penalty for rodgers for putting his teammates at risk and what does that mean for the rest of the country? "deadline white house" continues after a quick break, so don't go anywhere. es after a quick break, so don't go anywhere
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just stupid wokeness. some of these people need to go to a woke detox center or something. i mean, they're expressing language that people just don't use and there's a backlash and a frustration at that. terry got caught up. he's a good friend of mine. he's a good guy. you know, he got caught up in something national. we got to change this and not be about changing dictionaries and change laws. >> political advisor james carville with his take on what went wrong for democrats in virginia in tuesday's governor's race. it echos much of the monday morning quarterbacking which i
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vehemently disagree with by pinning the blame on woke politics, specifically, critical race theory. a graduate level course not taught to anyone's 5-year-old. still, republicans and some centrist democrats are successfully saying this is what leveraged the power that republicans were able to use to outrage parents to be successful in virginia. parents had fears that schools would start teaching those and those districts have something in common. a study by nbc news found that schools facing critical race theory battles are the ones that has been to be diversifying the fastest. virginia's loudoun county is second in the nation in terms of the increase in the number of students of color and what had been a majority white school district. mcauliffe underperformed biden's numbers in that county by seven points. and republicans are looking to copy the virginia playbook for the 2022 midterms. in an election night letter to his caucus, house minority leader kevin mccarthy listed education as a main plank of his party's plan to reclaim power
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with promises to introduce a, quote, parents bill of rights, writing, quote, if the virginia results showed us anything, it's that parents are demanding more control and accountability in the classroom. joining us now is former republican congressman david jolly. national chairman of the serve america movement. and an msnbc contributor. and dr. robertson, director of the center for critical race studies at the university of houston downtown and co-editor of the book "critical race studies across disciplines." thank you so much, dr. robertson and david for joining me today. david, i have to start with this, and this is a thing i have felt about critical race theory all along. to me it is no different than the caravan or the birtherism and i hate the idea of platforming what is essentially a bad faith argument but people seem to believe it had an impact on virginia so as a former republican and political advisor, what do democrats do against what is inherently a dishonest and bad faith argument when it comes to politics?
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>> in two words, ignore it. and what i mean by that, you used the word, platform it. look, republicans want a culture war around this issue but it's based on a lie, and i think the way democrats should approach it is to acknowledge the concern of parents even though it's based on a lie to say, look, nobody's interested in teaching your kids what to think. but we do want to teach our kids how to think for themselves, and so, that means including a broad spectrum of curriculum, but republicans are telling you crt is in and it's not. but there's no reason to play on the republican playing field on this crt issue. for the main reason, jason, it's because even if you beat them on that, republicans are going to go down this road on another issue. they are bad faith players when it comes to culture wars and they're going to engage in culture wars going into 2022. i think you just hit it, say it's a lie, move on, and deliver what is a more powerful message for democrats. what is the issue? what is the message that's going
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to resonate more to parents? and that means meeting parents and meeting voters where they are. not where you want to take them to. right? is it inflation? is it covid policy bouncing back and forth? is it school, parental control in schools? that's fine. meet the voter where they are. but that doesn't mean you have to meet republicans where they are. >> dr. robertson, so, again, the goal of republicans from a rhetorical and communication standpoint is anything you don't like, they want to call it critical race theory, martin luther king day, diwali, hanukkah, remind me, because you wrote a book about critical race theory across disciplines. what is critical race theory at its core and is it something that you could even teach during a math class or an english class or something else like that to a bunch of 5-year-olds? >> well, thank you for the question, my brother. critical race theory at its core
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is a theoretical approach and a framework of legal analysis that's based on the premise that race is not a natural or a biological feature of humanity. that is to say that race is not a noun. it's actually a verb. and as a verb, race is a sociological tool that's used to organize our society for the purpose of maintaining certain political, social, and economic disparities. hence, critical race theory is a structural examination of race and racism by looking closely at our laws, our policies, our institutions, and our systems that govern our american society. so, of course, it takes me quite a while to even offer you this definition of critical race theory, so it could not possibly show up in a kindergarten classroom. it is in no part a part of the curriculum of our high school students or those in middle school. this is simply a facade. it is just an opportunity for
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republicans to throw together all of our initiatives that are moving toward the diversification of curriculum, equity, diversity, and inclusion programs and trying to smash them together for an easy defeat. >> this amazes me. you know how hard it is to teach a 3-year-old or a 5-year-old to tie their shoes? and somebody thinks that teachers have time to do this? it doesn't make any sense. so, david, here's the other thing that sort of gets me about this. i wonder if, from the perspective of democrats, you know, we heard james carville at the beginning. he's like, oh my gosh, we got to do something about wokeness, we got to do something about defund the police, we got to do something about all these terrible ideas. when i hear that, as an african-american voter, what i hear is an older white guy saying, you black and brown people shut up. that's how that sounds to lots of black and brown voters across the country and the democratic party suppresses the votes when they do things like that, so david, if you were having a
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conversation with centrist democrats right now who are like, we got to get away from this stuff, what would you tell them about how these messages can come across to the very base that you need for you to stay in power? >> look, james carville comments don't help in this situation. politics is a game of math and when it comes to the current democratic majority, it is a group of coalitions, right? biden and democratic leadership made certain promises to progressives, certain promises to moderates, and certain promises to never trumpers, and as i heard one of our colleagues on nbc say recently, communities of color did not turn out because they really wanted a hard infrastructure bill and building bridges. what they wanted was what we're seeing in the larger bill, and i think it's important to recognize, if you lose any one of these demographics within the coalition, not only are you probably on the wrong side of history, but you're also going to be on the wrong side of the election. but what i would finally offer any democrat, moderate, conservative, whatever it might be, you might be right on the
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issues. you might have a very popular issue. paid family leave. community colleges. pre-k. but you might still be off message, and what i mean by that is what we learned as there were slightly more voters in some of these states who said, yes, that polls at 75% but what i'm most concerned about is inflation and schools and covid and these other issues. so, for democrats, don't lose fight -- you know, don't lose your spirit over these issues that you're on the right side of but recognize in elections, sometimes you've got to meet the voter where they are, not where you want them to be. >> so, dr. robertson, this is something else that the data nbc came up with, where school districts are diversifying is where you're seeing these flare-ups of anger and racism and my question for you is, is there a way, possibly, to perhaps turn critical race theory into a positive? here's what i propose with that. there are some parents out there that love it when their kids come home and say, we learned about hanukkah today. we learned about juneteenth
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today. that is something that a lot of parents are actually excited about. they love when their children come home with new friends and different kinds of things. while that is separate from critical race theory, do you think in an diversifying america that you could sell those who are resistant to that diversity on the excitement and joy that children seem to get from interacting with different kids when they go to school? maybe i'm just optimistic. >> no, i think that's a brilliant point. our whole educational system is built on the phenomenon that we as americans must be aptly educated in order for us to lead ourselves in this beautiful democratic experiment. and it is only through that critical analysis of our history where we, as a nation, got it right, when we are doing things well as well as the moments when we fell short that we are ever going to be able to perfect our union, to be able to create and craft minds that are ready for the challenges of the 21st century.
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so, i'm with you. unfortunately, the republican party has done a great job at demonizing this incredible tool of analysis. but we would say that we, as americans, must get back to the perfecting of our union in education, as john dewy would say, is at the heart of that perfection. that it's only when we learn to know one another, when we truly appreciate each other, are we ever going to be the america that we dream of. >> i love that level of optimism. it's so rare. thank you so much. david jolly and dr. vida robertson, thank you for spending some time with us and giving us a positive vision of the future. when we return, an update on the white supremacist trial in charlottesville where residents are hoping to hold the organizers of that deadly 2017 rally accountable while the organizers would rather sit around and talk about how much
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for an hour yesterday in a courtroom in charlottesville, it was almost like the organizers of the 2017 unite the right rally had come back. currently on trial in a civil suit that could potentially take down their groups and bankrupt them, they weren't all on trial, but some of them were.
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in a shocking exchange that went on for at least an hour, neo-nazi and defendant chris cantwell cross examined fellow rally goer, what's your favorite holocaust joke? the exchange continued. my favorite, he replied, chuckling? while attorneys interrupted this line of questioning, cantwell and heimbach spent nearly an hour talking about their admiration for nazi germany, adolf hitler and their belief the holocaust was a hoax. hitler, they said, did nothing wrong in murdering some 6 million jews. let's bring in maya wiley and jordan green. maya, i got to read this quote from buzzfeed because this is -- this is insane. while wearing a blue shirt without a tie or jacket,
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cantwell proceed ed to name check "mein kampf" drop the n-word, plug his far-right radio program call himself good-looking and a professional artist and blast anti-fascist activists all in a matter of minutes. what is he doing, saying these kind of things in his own defense? >> let's start by remembering that he does not have a lawyer. because if he did have a lawyer, he would not be making any of these statements because his lawyer would have him sitting down and keeping his mouth shut. but the point is these are racists. they are anti-semites. they do believe there should be a white ethnostate and what they're essentially to the extent this is not a helpful defense, but the best defense they seem to be mounting, and it's not a good one, is, yeah, we're racist, we're
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anti-semitic, we love hitler, we deny that the holocaust ever happened, so what? that doesn't mean that we should be held liable under this law for conspiracy to violate people's rights. including violence, intimidation, but at the same time, this is really important to remember, what the evidence has been showing is conversations, exchanges and traffic in the planning of this rally that said, i can't wait to stomp jews. that said -- in one instance, someone said it's legal in virginia to run people over, right? and you have a former member of identity europa, one of the groups being sued, and she says, yeah, eli mosley, richard spencer, two of these defendants, had an exchange where not only did they say that. richard spencer said this is going to be a racial holy war. so, those do go to evidence that
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it ain't just that you're racist and anti-semitic and hateful and don't believe in history or truth. that you actually did commit violence. >> jordan, so, a lot of us have seen sort of the reporting out of wisconsin that you have a judge who says, oh, you can't call the people that kyle rittenhouse shot victims and language and dialogue is important in these cases. as somebody who studies and follows sort of right-wing extremism in america, how alarming is it to you -- how alarming is it to court observers that in the early part of this trial, the judge let these guys basically do this frick and frack show of hitler love for an hour? like, did that in any way diminish the case or in any way distract from how serious these charges are? because i don't understand why the judge even allowed them to do this. >> well, i think the judge is deferential to the two
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defendants, richard spencer and chris cantwell, who are defending themselves in the sense that he gives them a lot of latitude because they're not lawyers. more than he would lawyers. but yes, it was disturbing, you know, i don't think that this judge really kind of recognizes the real world implications, and i say that in the sense that mr. cantwell, i think, is not really putting forward a legal defense so much as he's using the courtroom as a platform to proselytize and recruit. for white nationalism. >> yeah, and that -- that is the most dangerous part about giving some of these people this opportunity. we have some breaking news. i got to ask ma ya wily about this. it's just announced now that the department of justice is now going to be suing the state of texas over voting rights, similar to what they've done in georgia.
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maya, i've got to ask you, what is this actually going to do? look, we're all happy to see that merrick garland and the doj is being, i guess, aggressive, but what do these lawsuits amount to, and is there a likelihood that we could get some sort of resolution before the 2022 midterms? >> well, the short answer is it matters a lot that the department of justice brought this suit because it's its job to vindicate the rights and protect the constitutional rights of the citizens and residents of the united states. and texas has been, for years, by the way, this is just yet another effort by, unfortunately, because it's been republican lawmakers trying to make it harder and harder for people to vote, particularly people of color, people who are more likely to vote for democrats. so, this is just the latest lawsuit in what has been a series of lawsuits. i think the concern here is, how are we handling, one, what congress is doing on voting
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rights, because we need legislation that reverses some of the damage the supreme court has done to our voting rights, that's why we need an end to the filibuster. that's why this legislation, the john lewis voting rights bill, has to get passed. to empower these lawsuits so that it's clearer what is unlawful. but i think the other piece of this is, if the justice department weren't bringing this case, we would all be complaining and rightly so because it has to do everything it can and it has to do it as fast as it can and try to get the courts moving as fast as they can but they don't have control over that. >> maya wily and jordan green, thank you for spending time with us today. when we return, the green bay packers superstar quarterback aaron rodgers sidelined with covid and a bad case of lying about his vaccination status. a bad case of lying about his vaccination status
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kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort. the green bay packers will take the field against the kansas city chiefs this weekend without the nfl's reigning mvp and discount double check hero, aaron rodgers. that, by itself, isn't so out of the ordinary. since the summer, more than 100 players, representing 30 of the nfl's 32 teams, have appeared on the league's covid list. by rule, vaccinated players have an easier time rejoining their teams. so, it came as a shock yesterday when the nfl network reported
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aaron rodgers is unvaccinated. that was a surprise, given what he told reporters in late august. listen to his exact wording right here. >> are you vaccinated and what's your stance on vaccinations? >> yeah, i've been immunized. there's guys on the team that haven't been vaccinated. i think it's a personal decision. i'm not going to judge those guys. >> joining us now is michael smith, co-host of peacock's brother from another and msnbc medical contributor dr. kavita patel, back with us. former obama white house health policy director as well. so, i'm going to start with michael. it's great to be on this side of the panel this time. >> yes, sir. >> i want to play some audio from you just a couple of months ago. you were really one of the only journalists, only sports journalists, who caught that aaron rodgers was lying from the beginning so i want to play this audio and get your thoughts on the other side. >> very calculated, very smart, very well-read, very intentional
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with his diction, okay? when asked about his vaccination status, aaron rodgers says, i'm immunized. he didn't say, i'm vaccinated. he said, i'm immunized. because as i understand it, he is not vaccinated. >> now, michael, there's no vaccine mandate in the nfl, but the rules are that you have to behave differently. you have a different set of protocols that you have to go through if you are not vaccinated. just on some bare facts right now, do we believe that aaron rodgers, as an unvaccinated player, was actually following the protocols? or was he lying about his status and then also trying to live, you know, fancy free? >> and that is the main question here, because this isn't just an aaron rodgers story. this is a green bay packers and by extension an nfl story. so, you and i both know that a
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lie depends on what your truth is, and when aaron rodgers spoke to the media and the public, in aaron rodgers' mind, his smartest person in the room mind, he was like, oh, yeah, i'm immunized because he had undergone some homeopathic treatment that he and his council and his team had determined was good enough, but the nfl declined his exemption request, so he was considered unvaccinated and therefore was subject to stricter protocols. the issue is not whether he was telling a lie to the media on the 26th so much as it was him living a lie after that. because even just an halloween, he's out at a halloween party dressed as john wick. that's a no-no. you're supposed to have a limited number of contacts as an unvaccinated player. the packers say they followed the protocols, but the league would know, and if he did violate, would have fined him for such things as not wearing a mask indoors. we saw he never wore a mask at his press conferences. so, living that untruth, living that falsehood or living his
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semantic approach to the situation by saying i'm immunized but not vaccinated, exposed media members and who knows who else to potential exposure to covid because he was acting as though he was vaccinated. so that is question. what did the packers know. the packers knew, the nfl knew. what did they do about him flouting the protocols for unvaccinated players. >> despite the gymnastics from aaron rodgers, part of this is because he is one of the golden boys in the nfl like tom brady, like patrick mahomes, et cetera, et cetera. we have seen other sports, jonathan isaac, orlando magic got heck for not wanting to get vaccinated. ee vander cane playing for san jose sharks was suspended 21 games for using a fake vaccination card. what is the likelihood the nfl, which is not known for holding players accountable, certainly not white famous players
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accountable, what is the likelihood aaron rodgers or the packers could face suspensions or fines or draft picks not only if he was lying but the team covered up for him? >> i think the packers are more likely to face an issue. again, rodgers mislead the public. took the question are you vaccinated, he did those verbal gymnastics you talked about. the question should have been are you in compliance about the league rules on vaccinations, pfizer, moderna, johnson & johnson, not vaccinated. he may have had a different answer then. who knows. but he took the out. he mislead the public. but the packers knew his vaccination status, the nfl knew his vaccination status. he may have been fined for violating protocols for all we know, maybe kept it under wraps. if the packers allowed him to get away with certain things, they could be in trouble, but he
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hasn't done anything outside the public court of opinion. no mandate and they knew that he was unvaccinated per their situation. >> i can imagine a lot of gamblers and fantasy football players are angry though. dr. gupta, i have to ask you quickly. i think this is something that casual fans need to understand. what are the consequences of an unvaccinated player as central as an nfl quarterback to the team. they touch the ball, they're in the locker room, yelling at everybody in the huddle. why is it more dangerous for aaron rodgers to not be vaccinated and potential spreader than a wide receiver or somebody in basketball where you're not in as much contact. >> this is the definition of close contact, super spreader event. we have cdc cases and international cases, soccer, basketball, we have examples in football. it is what led the nba to have the incredibly elaborate set of
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protocols that one person could create a super spreader event, not just infecting players, jason, but families, too. i am confident that aaron rodgers on his team has people with unvaccinated children and people at high risk for chronic conditions. for all i know, they're in his own family. so the deceit is just amazing, and the court of public opinion is the one where obviously this will play out. i looked up his endorsements, i didn't know them off the top of my head. he has some hefty corporate endorsements. i hope they hold him accountable the way they would anyone else for something nowhere near as deadly as what he's doing. >> michael smith, doctor patel, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. we'll be back after this quick break. you we'll be back after this quick break. with rybelsus®. ♪ you are my sunshine ♪ ♪ my only sunshine... ♪
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why did democrats lose in anniversary? was it because critical race theory galvanized white women in the suburbs? because of wokism, defund the police, boogie man, excuses thrown out by centrist democrats whenever they fail to win easy races. maybe because kristin cinema and joe manchin can you tell eld joe biden's agenda and made the party look if he canless. because democrats beg for voter to help for police reform, gave us juneteenth, a holiday everybody was already celebrating. could be none of these things. here's what we know. white america made its voice heard again and again and again. doesn't matter in the suburbs or the city, vast majority of white voters, men and women, will vote for a party with core policy of white supremacy, mandate the coverup and attempted coup ten months ago. democrats have to understand victory comes from getting 40% of the white vote, 90% of the black vote, 70% of the hispanic
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and asian vote. that's the coalition. that's a winning coalition, sustainable coalition, but not if democrats contend that latino voters only care about immigration, black voters are a nuisance, have to be catered to, and asians only care about public education. a year ago on tuesday, joe biden was elected president with 81 million votes and flipped two deeply red states. a lot can happen in a year, no reason to have doom and gloom predictions on 2022, but the dmiks party needs to break with the addiction of white people and minorities and realize the future is a strong, diverse cast. the future of the democratic party is less friends, more like fast and furious. has a year to figure out who will lead that mission. hopefully they'll learn the lessons from tuesday. be right back. n the lessons from tuesday be right back.
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the beat with ari melber starts now. ain't no party like an ari melber party. >> that kind of party doesn't stop. you heard right. the streets don't lie. thank you to jason as always with the kind of handoff only jason can do. i want to welcome everyone to "the beat." a lot going on. breaking news with a newly empaneled grand jury in the trump org case that we'll try to explain with clarity and sobriety with a guest later tonight. i have a report not about trump but about vigilante justice, how it is foe meanted with racial and racist overtones, why it is on trial now in america. i'll explain. and a special thought i want to share about that. that's also later in the program. we begin with this momentous period in the fight against covid in am


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