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tv   Katy Tur Reports  MSNBC  November 4, 2021 11:00am-12:00pm PDT

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considering how many years that we've been carrying out strikes, you would have hoped for a better result. >> and this feels like an incomplete investigation. >> that's what a lot of people are saying. they say it was very thorough. but you have adam schiff saying i didn't see enough here, this isn't enough accountability. >> this feels like congressional review is necessary. i'm running late on time, i appreciate the report. thank you all for being with us this hour. msnbc's coverage continues with my friend chris jansing right now. good to be with you. i am chris jansing. and today, democrats in washington under pressure following the election drubbing to stop the infighting and enact the president's sweeping agenda. but they're confronting a complicated question. is that really what americans want? house democrats now appear to be rushing toward votes on the massive infrastructure and special spending packages perhaps as soon as this week. after months of delays, they're
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now scrambling to deliver after the party's efforts in this week's elections. >> reporter: what effect do you think not having passed these bills had on tuesday's election results? >> let me say it a different way. i think that getting the job done, producing results for the american people, is always very positive. >> reporter: do you think democrats were penalized for having not gotten these things done? >> there's no question. the more results we can produce in a way that is -- that people understand in their lives, the better it is. >> now, if you ask the president, this is exactly what his party should do. he contends the defeats are proof democrats aren't moving quickly enough. >> i do know that people want us to get things done. they want us to get things done. and that's why i'm continuing to push very hard for the democratic party to move along
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and pass my infrastructure bill and my build back better bill. get it to my desk. >> there are members of the president's party who thinks he's giving the wrong message. democrats who believe voters sent an actually different signal that the president and his party don't have the mandate they think they have. virginia congresswoman abigail spanberger who saw her state's governor seat flip from blue to red told this to "the new york times." nobody elected him to be fdr. they elected him to be normal and stop the chaos. and there's another reason for this new urgency. only a few weeks remain before congress breaks for the holiday season. after that, the race for 2022 will begin with gusto. minority leader kevin mccarthy with the speaker's gavel in his sights making this prediction about those midterms. >> if you're a democrat, and president biden won your seat by
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16 points, you are in a competitive race next year. you are no longer safe. >> joining me is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, nbc correspondent monica alba, and ashley parker, an msnbc political analyst. love having all of you here. these are interesting times to say the least. ali, there was some sense kind of that we were headed for a vote today. speaker pelosi seems to be tamping down those expectations now. where does this new sense of urgency, if that's what it is, leave democrats today? >> it's an existing urgency, chris. even at the beginning of the week, before we saw the virginia and new jersey results, there was a sense that progressives have been ready to move on this and certainly moderates are ready to move on this. publicly we didn't hear speaker pelosi set any timeline, but privately to her caucus, in
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talking to lawmakers in the last little while, they're still under the impression that a vote could come as early as this evening, first on the larger social spending package, then tomorrow morning on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that has already passed in the senate. but really what this comes down to is a bunch of finger pointing after the election. you need to look no further than "morning joe" this morning where two of the key players were pointing fingers, joe manchin and congresswoman pramila jayapal. listen. >> no, we should have gotten something done, mika. the china compete bill we passed with 90 democrats, democrats and republicans in the senate. it's been sitting until the house quite some time. to have these bills being held hostage when we have a much larger bill we need to work on, we need to work in good faith. i don't know why the house members couldn't pass the bills they've been sitting on for quite some time. >> it's been negotiated with the senator. and i've been trying -- look,
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he's a good man, we've had many meetings. i've been trying not to point fingers here. let's just get these two bills done. we're going to do our work in the house and then we're going to trust the president that he's going to get 51 votes in the senate. >> now, as you move forward here, a few things to keep in mind. if the house moves on this, it sort of erodes what progressives have long said which is that this is a process that is bound together. on the larger social spending package as well as on the bipartisan infrastructure package. because once they vote on these things, it goes to the senate for the larger social spending package and there are still things that can be stripped out of this bill. paid leave is a prime example of this. yesterday, house democrats put it back in their bill, four weeks of paid and sick leave. i ran over to senator joe manchin's office, told him this was the new plan and he reiterated to me that this is a difficult position for him and he didn't back putting it in the senate reconciliation package. the senate could strip it out after it passes the house. the bill could look very
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different once it passes the house. but this is the reality here from a legislative perspective. they have the text, they have the joint score, they're starting to get a sense what have this looks like but at the same time, once it goes over to the senate, it could look very different and there are still some key disagreements over what should be in and what should be out when you talk to the senators at the center of this, joe manchin among them. >> here's the thing, ashley parker. i just spent five days talking to voters in virginia. and their definition of urgency is very different than what congress' definition, the democrats' definition of urgency seems to be. to a lot of them, it looks a lot like what it looked like before, which is chaos, before, for a different reason, but it still doesn't look like they're getting done what they put those folks in office to get done. so here is my question. bottom line is, the voters went to the republican side, in big numbers, right? what are the discussions like inside the party about why and what they're going to do about it?
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>> well, chaos is one of the keywords. and in looking at the challenges that president biden is facing in his approval numbers, that's one thing that comes up. and you put it to a congresswoman who made a similar point, but there is this idea that what people liked about joe biden, what he campaigned on, was sort of core competency. even to the point of being boring. and you saw that start to erode, starting this summer, with the withdrawal from afghanistan. the administration on afghanistan believed that the president made a decision that he will be rewarded for in the future, that is in line with what the majority of americans want. but the way that happened, it was chaotic. there were devastating images we saw out of kabul for about ten days. and that was the first time we heard voters sort of say, well, wait a minute, i thought this was going to be different than the previous administration. and then you go right into
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congress, where not only are they not getting anything done, but what voters are witnessing is process. you are never winning when you're talking about process. the process is democrat on democrat violence. it's not the democrats fighting the republicans. it's moderates and progressives who don't trust each other, who can't agree on anything. that's what voters penalized democrats for in the election and what's hurting president biden's approval ratings right now. >> the white house, monica, rejects the idea this is a wholesale repudiation of the president. but is there an awareness of the frustration from democrats that the president isn't getting the message from all this? >> there is, chris. one of their key takeaways from tuesday night's election is that voters, they feel, are fed up with the inaction and nitpicking on capitol hill. that's because they want to deflect blame from the president. we saw him do that himself yesterday when pressed by my colleague kristen welker on how
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much responsibility he should take away from the dismal results for democrats. he said look, this isn't my fault necessarily, i don't know that if my agenda had passed before tuesday night, that that would have made much difference. but setting that aside, he's trying to pivot and look to the center and say, what i know from this moment, the president argues, is to try to take this and use the momentum to get something done. but the reality here is that at the white house there's a bit of deja vu, chris. the president has gone to capitol hill twice to make this appeal to his fellow democrats to say please get on the same page, get behind me. both times that did not pan out in any votes or any real forward momentum to getting toward votes. now today here we are at the white house where the president has nothing on his public schedule. he's made clear what his message is to congressional democrats. in just a couple of words there which you played at the beginning, where he said, get it to my desk. so patience is continuing to wear thin. but there is a big sense from white house officials that the president has done everything he
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can. he's applied the political pressure and he would like to see this come together. there's not much more left for him to do. that's where we're at today, as they continue to see how to chart a path forward out of these disappointing results for the white house. >> monica, ali, thanks to all of you, i appreciate it. joining me now from capitol hill is senator kirsten gillibrand, democrat of new york. always good to see you. this was not a great day on tuesday, to say the least. what's your takeaway from this week's elections? to act faster, lean into progressive priorities? what do you think voters are saying to the democratic party? >> you know, it's hard to monday morning quarterback election results. but what i know from new york is that people are still really struggling. and people need help. and so i think what joe biden has been talking about are real solutions to making costs lower. people can't afford childcare. they can't afford groceries. they can't afford the things
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they need for their families. and so i think we are actually on the right track. it's just about getting it done and making sure we rebuild the economy from the bottom up, we rebuild infrastructure, having affordable day-care, have universal pre-k, get paid leave done, make housing and health care more affordable. those things do matter. i wouldn't take that much from it except fact that people are hurting and they care about their families, they care about their kids. this last year and a half has been hell, and i think going through covid, people are tired and they want solutions and they want someone who is listening to them. and i think it's given us renewed vigor to get the things done that people need. >> has it -- because, again, i just want to say in these conversations, i don't want to extrapolate the whole world from it, but i spent five days talking to voters in virginia. they're tired and exhausted. they can't believe what's going
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on in washington. they don't follow it closely, like you live it, i live it. they just know there's this fighting, right? and i heard grocery prices come up time after time after time. house democrats added four weeks of family leave back in, something senator manchin said is a nonstarter, something you've been a champion of. i mean, where do you go with something like that? how do you square that? i don't think anybody in your party disagrees that people are frustrated, they're tired and they want help. but they don't see that you guys can come together and say we're going to do this for you. >> we are going to do this for the american people. and we are going to get it done. and we are going to make things more affordable. >> how do you do that? can you convince joe manchin that -- >> we can. and i think -- yes, i think senator manchin has said that most of this stuff in the framework he's good with. so he wants to make childcare more affordable. he wants to make day-care --
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>> but he wants to do it differently. he said in regular order through the process, not as part of this bill. >> i think he said that only about paid leave. but -- >> yeah, paid leave. >> -- negotiations aren't done yet. he said he's for paid leave. he wants that to be done on a bipartisan basis today. i don't think that's the case. i think there are things we can work on on a bipartisan basis but not as much as he imagines. it will make it easier for states to come to the table to help people protect their children when they're born and be able to nurse and be able to be with that new baby, also to help a parent when they're dying and you're by their bedside, to help a family member who is ill. that's the care people need and they want to be with their loved ones. i think we can get there on paid leave and definitely we can get there on all the other things that president biden has put forward like affordable housing and less expensive health care and making sure we can have kids
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in pre-k. those things really do matter. and as for the election, i think virginia was a tough case. i think the republican candidate lied a lot to the people, to the voters, and really, really, really said things that i think weren't true. i think parents are worried about their kids. i think parents are worried about schools. and they're still worried about covid. >> but he did tap into something, he tapped into that fear. >> he did. >> he tapped into that exhaustion from coronavirus. and he also tapped into the issues people are talking about. when he went and said, and i heard this again from so many voters, groceries are too expensive, he's going to get rid of the grocery tax. >> yeah, and he misled parents about schools and safety. and he followed in trump's footsteps, lying to people about covid and what are safe practices for kids. so -- >> so what's the democratic lesson from that?
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do you fight back, do you ignore it? again, strategically -- >> i think you have to -- >> -- the house and senate are up for grabs. >> i think you have to be honest with the american people, tell them what's true and right, tell them what you're for, and tell them what you're doing. but i do think the wake-up call, back to your first question, is we will get things done and will show the american people that we're going to create more jobs, help the economy by passing this investment in infrastructure, help people with their families by making sure we have more affordable day-care, more accessible pre-k, affordable paid family leave, making sure we can afford health care and making sure we can afford housing, and deal with the extreme weather so that people can deal with when their house is destroyed because of flooding or because of a wildfire, that we can actually rebuild our communities. that's what these pieces of legislation are about. we're going to get it done and we'll have time to get the resources to the states so they
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can start rebuilding before the election, so we know what we stand for. when people lie like the candidate in virginia, we have to be more forceful in explaining that they're lying to you and scaring you and that's not what we are as americans and we don't believe in people who are dishonest. but sometimes it works. as we saw with president trump, sometimes it works. it doesn't mean we'll play the same dirty tricks. it means we'll be honest and tell the truth. >> senator kirsten gillibrand from the great state of new york, thank you so much, it's good to see you. we appreciate your time. ahead, it could have been even worse for democrats. the close call that's now getting a lot more attention. and the potential fallout for 2022. also the star quarterback who seems to suggest he's vaccinated until he wasn't. aaron rodgers, green bay packers. the nfl now facing questions about a double standard and were people put at risk. also the trial for the
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democrat phil murphy is now the projected winner of the new jersey governor's race. "the trentonian" had a humorous way of approaching what was decidedly unfunny for democrats because that race was closer
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than anyone predicted. it was a reflection of republicans performing better across the map from new jersey to virginia where glenn youngkin gave his party a roadmap to victory in 2022, a strategy to ramp up republican voters. cornell belcher, and the author of the book "the long red thread." cornell, youngkin riled up white voters by talking about critical race theory which, and we can't say this enough, is not taught in virginia schools. yet here he was on fox earlier. >> our curriculum is going to be absolutely focused on make sure we get political rhetoric out of the classroom and to prepare kids how to think as opposed to what to think. >> in look, in virginia, talking
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to local and national republicans about the outcome afterwards, their argument is the youngkin roadmap is not racist, it's listening to voters who don't think parents should be left out of the loop, which is what they heard terry mcauliffe say. what do you say? >> there's multiple variables. and i think part of the hot take that we're all engaged in is that we try to make an election about one thing. and it's seldom about one variable. and it's also, you know, we've got to step back and let our viewers -- educate our viewers a little bit. historically this is a pattern that's not unique to democrats, right? it's happened to republicans in the same position, it happened to republicans under george h., republicans under george w., it happened to democrats under both clinton and obama. so this is a cyclical thing. what i will say about critical race theory is i think this is -- it is the new dog whistle, right? it is the new sort of more eloquent, i would argue, racial
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dog whistle. but it is very much in the continuum of defund the police, welfare queen, crosstown busing, what have you. it's very much in that continuum. i think the real lessons for republicans, i think this is actually important for democrats and republicans, is that much of that sort of trumpism, sort of -- to sort of tribalize the electorate, if done by a different voice and done in a more eloquent sort of less, you know, overt way than trump has done it over years, you can have some success doing it. and i think that is the critical answer, the critical thing moving forward for the midterms, is how do democrats not run away from the conversation about critical race theory but how they have an answer for it, because they did not have an answer for it. >> that's the question, cornell, the part of the message a lot of folks are taking away from a
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youngkin win is that a moderate republican win back suburban voters. his primary challenger was more trumpian. but if this is going to be the moderate gop strategy going forward, how do democrats counter it? terry mcauliffe talked about it a lot, tried to tie youngkin to trump, it didn't work. >> that's a good point. one, to be quite frank, i think we're going to have to spend a lot of time over the next couple of weeks and months trying to figure out what the answer is, because we can't avoid it. two is, i'm not sure youngkin is transferable to congressional republicans. as you know, as you've shown on the show, it's a lot harder for these congressional republicans to not -- to back away and say they're not as connected to donald trump as youngkin was, because clearly they have been. >> so kyle, bottom line, you say that right now the wind is at the republicans' backs. is there anything that could derail them between now and the midterms? is there anything the democrats can do to help themselves? >> well, look, i think the
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democrats need to help the president, because i think if the president's numbers continue to be as weak as they are, his approval rating in the low 40s, that's almost always a signal that a party will do poorly in off-year midterm elections. the out of power party usually has more motivation anyway. four years ago we were talking about how donald trump was a giant drag on republicans in virginia and new jersey and democrats did great. four years later, biden is in the white house and you see the same dynamic. we don't have finalized results in all these races yet but it looks like both virginia and new jersey voted 10 or 11 points more republican in this year's gubernatorial elections than four years ago. the swing was very similar. the reason why youngkin won and murphy won in new jersey is you had a split there just because new jersey is a little more democratic than i think new jersey is.
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i think these specific issues are important, but this was a really bad environment for democrats which put republicans in range of being able to win at least in virginia if not new jersey. >> so important. i mean, phil murphy pulled it off, by four tenths of one percent. thank you both, appreciate it. up next, an analyst who contributed information to the so-called steele dossier arrested by the feds. we have the reporter who broke that story. also the covid controversy swirling around one of the biggest stars in the nfl. riders, the lone wolves of the great highway. all they need is a bike and a full tank of gas. their only friend? the open road. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair.
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breaking news this afternoon. a russian analyst arrested by federal authorities today is scheduled to appear in court right now. "the new york times" first reported that he was a key source for some of the most salacious allegations in the so-called steele dossier which was about former president trump's interactions in russia. now, this indictment suggests that the steele dossier was based more closely on information from people tied to the clintons than previously known. that includes a state chairman that worked on both bill clinton's presidential runs and a former volunteer for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. joining me, one of the reporters who broke this story, "new york times" washington correspondent charlie savage who is also an msnbc contributor. some great reporting here again, charlie. let's start with who this analyst is and what exactly he's accused of doing. >> sure.
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this is igor danchenko, a russian-born analyst who lives here in the united states, an expert in russian business relations. he was hired by christopher steele in 2016 to research trump/russia ties. steele in turn had been hired by a firm called fusion gps which had been hired by a democratic law firm working for the hillary clinton campaign. this was financed by the democrats as opposition research. mr. danchenko knows a lot of people in russia, went to russia, gathered gossip and rumors and told them orally to mr. steele who wrote them up in a series of reports that have come to be known as the steele dossier. he was arrested today and accused of lying to the fbi about some of the sources that
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he had for those materials. >> we though that -- first of all, he's not the first person to be charged as a result of this probe. the democratic lawyer was charged with making a false statement to the fbi. what do we know about the tentacles, how they might spread, and how this one case fits into the big picture? >> this is not a normal justice department case. this has been brought by john durham, the special counsel, a semi independent prosecutor who was appointed during the trump administration by then attorney general bill barr and is continuing to operate now a year after trump lost the election, 2 1/2 years after his appointment, with some autonomy from the biden justice department. yes, you're right, for a long time he had not done anything publicly visible. he charged one person in a case that he didn't develop, the inspector general developed. then in september he came out with this indictment on one count of false statement against a democratic lawyer, michael
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sussman, supposedly for saying the wrong thing about who his client was when he brought some information to the fbi about those claims of a server linking the trump campaign to alphabet, which may be a dubious claim, never proven at least. now we have a second major indictment developed by the durham team. and this is also a false statement charge. so it's not a conspiracy to defraud the government, it's not some kind of larger showing that the whole russia investigation was a hoax, as the sort of trump world had hoped durham would prove. but it does put the spotlight on the steele dossier, which has played a vivid if largely peripheral role in the trump/russia imbroglio. the fbi had already opened its investigation before the agents working on it knew about this dossier. but it did make its way into a wiretap application and has been -- the fbi has gotten into
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a lot of trouble with that as it's become clear this dossier was pretty sketchy, things in it have not been proven, some things have been definitively disproven. this new information but the indictment, especially a democratic-linked public relations official who apparently provided some of the information in the dossier that we didn't know about before, and igor danchenko is accused of misleading the fbi about, adds to the impression that this dossier was a dubious set of assertions, even if it largely if not completely took place in a different space from the official investigation that grew into the mueller inquiry. >> more to come, and we're keeping our eye on the courtroom. thank you so much, charlie savage. ahead, the trial for the killing of ahmaud arbery. the jury is seated. 11 white jurors. only one back man. what is going on in georgia? and the new push to get
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press back in august. >> are you vaccinated and what's your stance on vaccinations? >> yeah, i'm immunized. there's guys on the team that haven't been vaccinated. i think it's a personal decision. i'm not going to judge those guise. >> nfl media reports rodgers is not vaccinated, that instead he received a homeopathic treatment from his personal doctor. joining me is bill rodden, writer at large for espn's "the undefeated." bill, let's start with rodgers' vaccination status. he's not playing this weekend. but who knew what when, that he was unvaccinated but he was acting like he was, what do we know? >> yeah, you get to the heart of the question, because a lot of this falls on rodgers' parsing of words. he was not vaccinated. and the nfl -- i think the larger question is that the nfl
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probably knew that he was not vaccinated. and i think this gets to the heart of what's left of the nfl's integrity. you know, he asked for special status designation, they denied it, which means that they knew that he was not vaccinated. he was definitely unvaccinated. yet you see him week after week after week with no mask, going into the facility unmasked. so now the question becomes what is the national football league going to do about this? because a lot of players are probably thinking, wait a minute, why is this guy getting special treatment? everybody else had to jump through hoops about wearing masks, getting vaccinated. and here this guy seemed like he openly deceived his team, his teammates, and the league. and what i think the issue is, the league seems like it knew this. so i think, again, this gets to the heart of what's left of the nfl's integrity.
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>> is this hubris and star power? assuming one can be the exception to a league-wide rule and put others at risk? is this willful deniability? what do you think was going on behind the scenes here? >> that is the question. i think behind the scenes is becoming front and center, that clearly the league knew this. and the next question is, did the green bay packers know this. i think particularly now, when we're having this nationwide discussion about vaccination, nonvaxers, then you have the face of the nfl clearly being deceptive about his status. and what's already been a bad week for the nfl, this really, again, throws questions about the nfl's integrity and what role it played in this deception. it's a horrible look. >> so dr. redletter, how are we
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still at this point in the pandemic where people in positions of power, anybody, for that matter, are using treatments that aren't proven. i know early in the pandemic, maybe you could make the argument, there's a lot of confusion, people are trying to do whatever they can do. we're not there now, we know a lot. >> well, chris, there's so many layers to this. as was just said, the nfl has a lot to answer to. and they have one chance to get this right. what does getting this right mean? it means admitting they made a horrible mistake. this is not just some person on the street. this is a superstar football player who is looked up to and admired by many americans including many children in america. he lied to the public. and he -- even worse than that, ascribed to some absolute nonsense of a homeopathic treatment, meaning a nontraditional, nonproven treatment for a disease that's killed three-quarters of a
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million americans to date. it's inexcusable and i don't see why he should be allowed to continue to play in the nfl. that's just my opinion. he needs to disavow what he did and needs to become a spokesperson to encourage americans to do the most important thing they could possibly do to tamp down covid, which is to get vaccinated. and by the way, chris, this is not a matter of a personal decision. it's not like, you know, you can't decide, i think i'm just going to get drunk and go for a drive in my car. you can't take risks to yourself that is translated to other people around you. just absolutely unacceptable, chris. >> i mean, that's why we have drunk driving laws, you get in a car, do what you want to yourself but you're going to kill other people. and we don't know who might have been exposed or potentially could have been exposed. irwin, you're going to stick around because that's not the
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only big covid story we're talking about today. thank you for joining us, bill. kids are rolling up their sleeves for covid vaccines. starting this weekend, walgreens and others are going to start to administer children's vaccines. until then, some people are flocking to pediatrician offices, children's hospitals, and kid-friendly vaccination sites to get their children inoculated which is where we find nbc's ellison barber. this might be the coolest place for a kid to get a vaccine, the american museum of natural history in new york city. what's going on there, ellison? >> reporter: if you have to get a shot, you might as well do it somewhere cool. the american museum of natural history is one of many vaccination sites in new york city now offering the shot for 5 to 11-year-olds. they are actually taking place just on the other side of the whale here. and the line, it's been steady
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every time we walked by it. we met one 7-year-old who was pretty ready to roll up his sleeve. listen. >> even though it's just been approved for children, it's a vaccine that's been used by millions of people around the world. we feel really confident. we think that the risks of them getting covid and also continuing to have their childhood disrupted for outweigh the risk of a vaccine. >> reporter: and what are you most excited to do once you're vaccinated? >> go to legoland! >> reporter: and when we met quinton who says he wants to go to legoland, i asked him if he's ever been to this museum before, he told me no. his mom said he's been here quite a few times but it was before the pandemic and he's forgotten this, because they were avoiding indoor spaces like
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this. both he and his brother were vaccinated. in new york city, if you take your 5 to 11-year-old to get vaccinated at a city-run vaccination site, you can get $100. >> ellison barber, thank you. you can put that in your piggy bank. dr. redlener, rochelle walensky, the head of the cdc, has the messaging been unclear, do parents have reason to wait? >> they may for a little while, but the fact of the matter is, especially for parents who are vaccinated, they should be feeling very reassured that the fda and the cdc have gone over a lot of data very thoroughly. and the conclusion is the vaccine is safe and it's effective. and the sooner kids can get vaccinated, the better. a few reasons for that, chris.
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one is it will keep them safe from getting the disease. second of all, having all children vaccinated will help us keep from having to close schools because of outbreaks. we need kids in school, we need them protected. and parents should feel very good about getting kids vaccinated as soon as possible, chris. >> you and i met when you were, as the co-founder of the children's health fund, a nonprofit that provides health care to children and families through mobile medical clinics and largely in communities of color, so you know this topic very well. how do you reach kids in those communities where adults have shown high hesitancy and low rates of vaccination? >> for a lot of good reasons, chris. we have a lot of parents in low income communities, communities of color, that really don't trust government. and without belaboring that, let's just say that's a fact. and i think there are several things that can be done and have been done which is have the
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representatives of the vaccine program be from the communities that we want to target. the children's health fund for more than 30 years has been doing exactly that. we've put really capable doctors who can really relate to the communities in urban and rural communities around the country to get them regular care. and for the last year, year and a half now, those same medical teams in these very underserved communities have been talking up the necessity for getting covid in adults who are eligible and now we're doing the same thing to get parents to agree to vaccinate their children. >> dr. irwin redlenor, always good to see you, thank you. up next, the killing of a back man in georgia that shocked the nation. his accused killers, three white men, are on trial and a lot of folks are asking why is there only one back person on the jury.
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there is controversy today following jury selection in the trial of three white men accused of killing ahmaud arbery. prosecutors objected arguing several black potential jurors were cut because of their race. out of a pool of 600 people, there is only one black juror. the rest are white. 25-year-old arbery was chased down, shot and killed while jogging through a south georgia neighborhood in february, 2020. all three defendants have pleaded not guilty. the judge overseeing the trial said that while the defense appeared to discriminate when striking potential black jurors, the trial will proceed with the jury as is. opening arguments are set to begin on friday. joining me, nbc news correspondent ron allen from brunswick, georgia, and georgetown law professor and former federal prosecutor paul butler. ron, it's been almost two years since ahmaud arbery death. walk us through where things stand this afternoon. >> reporter: there's a lot of anticipation.
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opening arguments to begin tomorrow morning. this issue about the jury has emerged as a huge point of contention for arbery supporters. we've spoken to his family today, and they are outraged. they also say that this is to be expected in this part of georgia because they see this as a -- a series of injustices all along including his death which supporters have called a modern-day lynching. we spoke to one of arbery's aunts. here's what she had to say about the fact that the jury only has one black member. take a listen. >> honestly, it was expected. that's just the community that we live in and just another unjustice -- injustice that we face daily. >> reporter: do you think you'll get justice now? >> i do feel honestly that we will due to the fact that some of those people on the jury panel are mothers and fathers. and so taking a personal outlook at not just the facts and everything that's been put at hand, but to have the opportunity to think about what if it was your child.
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>> reporter: it was an extraordinarily contentious process to get to a jury. hundreds of people were questioned. the problem is that we're essentially in a small town where everybody has formed a very strong opinion about there case one way or another. many people know the defendants or the victims. so to find people who could be impartial, who said they could be impartial and who the attorneys believe could be impotential is a challenge. we'll -- impartial is a challenge. we'll see. the trial is expected to last two to three weeks. advocates for racial justice see this as a test to see how far america has come during the last couple of years of racial reckoning. >> paul, i want to get your take on the make-up of this jury. look, the judge said that there was it seems, intentional discrimination that shaped this jury selection. he said his hands were tied by georgia law. what's going on? >> so chris, the judge found that 12 african-americans along with many other white folks were
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qualified to sit on a jury. in the judge's opinion all those folks could set aside what they've heard about the case and return a verdict just based on the evidence that's presented in court. the defense then removed 11 of those 12 black jurors. the defense lawyer claims it's based on how they answered questions, but some of the white jurors who did not get struck had the same kind of answers. for example, one white juror said that she thought that mr. arbery had been racially profiled. she's still on the jury. another white juror said that she had long conversations with her husband about the case. she's still on the jury, but the defense used answers like that from black prospective jurors to take them off the jury. >> apparently the defense, paul, also was unhappy with some of the make-up of the jury. the lawyer representing william bryan who filmed the shooting told "the atlanta journal constitution" that the original pool lacked white men over 40
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without a four-year college degree, a demographic he called bubbas or joe six packs, to diversify the jury. what do you make of that? >> so now mr. -- now all three defendants have a jury of bubbas. i guess they think that that's peers. again, 11 white people. this sounds like the old jim crow south. it doesn't sound like what we'd expect in a case involving a modern-day lynching in a district that has about 30% of the jury pool being white. ironically in minneapolis where derek chauvin was tried for murder of george floyd, there was a smaller percentage of black people in that city's population, but that jury was half black. in this case, the county's about 30% african-american, one black out of 12 people on that jury. that's a crying shame.
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>> paul butler, ron allen, thank you guys, appreciate it. that's going to do it for me today. r me today. ss, we must keep taking steps forward. we believe the future of energy is lower carbon. and to get there, the world needs to reduce global emissions. at chevron, we're taking action. tying our executives' pay to lowering the carbon emissions intensity of our operations. it's tempting to see how far we've come. but it's only human... to know how far we have to go.
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♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ oh, it's all right ♪ right now on msnbc report, letting the secrets out maybe or at least giving them to congress. what a federal judge is now saying about documents from the trump white house. papers the january 6th committee wants to see and ones the former president wants them not to see. why it looks like he may not get his way. as nbc news confirms the committee has already talked to more than 150 people. what we know about who and when and why 150 is just the start. plus, the sudden showdown on the hill. house speaker nancy pelosi apparently hoping to vote on the president's big spending bill as early as tonight, maybe in just a matter of hours, and maybe doing it without the full go ahead from some moderates in her party. we're live with what our sources


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